How many of you think you've actually had the covid19 virus?

by Tommy Monk Tue May 05, 2020 12:32 am

First topic message reminder :

Because... I'm pretty sure I've had it... my brother has had it... his Mrs has had it... my sister has had it... her fella has had it...

While none of us are on the list of being "confirmed cases" of having it...

Plus... I know dozens of other people who have said they're pretty sure that they have had it too... Having reported verifiable symptoms... Although none of these are listed on the official "confirmed cases" tally either...

And... All of these people that I know, who say they think they've had it, also say they each know dozens of others of people who say they have each had it too...

Isn't it likely that this virus has already done the rounds throughout the UK population... And most of us have already had it anyway...?

So no need for most of us to be hiding away from being infected by a virus that most of us have already had anyway...!?

by Original Quill Fri May 08, 2020 8:54 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Without tests, we'll never know. Trump has suppressed testing because to test would reveal the magnitude of his stumble with covid-19.

This is a presidential election year in the US, and Trump has placed personal politics above human lives.

French health service tested samples from people who died a month before covid19 was said to have officially been in the country, and found positive results for covid19 virus...

So it stands to reason that the virus was going round here in UK too, weeks or even more than a month before it was officially declared to have been here too!

The ICU/heart/lung specialist nurse I spoke to today said she believed the covid19 virus was going round here in UK from some time before Christmas 2019...!

The evidence is starting to mount that a huge section of UK population have already had it...

I think the evidence is pointing that way. Trump, in his daily briefing, both printed and delivered orally, had been receiving reports that the virus had been making the rounds here before November, 2019. Trump brushed it all aside, perhaps with some reduction of cognitive dissonance. After all, he had been dismantling Dr. Obama's build up of health preparedness and research--how would it look to America if it turned out that Obama's efforts had been well-warranted.

So, for the first 70-days Trump was dismissive. Who can forget the press conferences in which he said:

JAN 22
“We have it totally under control. ... It’s going to be just fine.”
— Donald Trump

JAN 30
“We think we have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five. And those people are all recuperating successfully. But we’re working very closely with China and other countries, and we think it’s going to have a very good ending for it. So that I can assure you.”
— Donald Trump

FEB 24
“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. … Stock market starting to look very good to me”
— Donald Trump

FEB 25
“You may ask about the coronavirus, which is very well under control in our country. We have very few people with it, and the people that have it are … getting better. They’re all getting better. … As far as what we’re doing with the new virus, I think that we’re doing a great job.”
— Donald Trump

FEB 25
“We have contained this. I won’t say airtight, but pretty close to airtight. We have done a good job in the United States.”
— Larry Kudlow

FEB 26
“And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."
— Donald Trump

FEB 28
“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”
— Donald Trump

Then his tone changed:

MARCH 2
"We had a great meeting today with a lot of the great companies and they're going to have vaccines, I think relatively soon.”
— Donald Trump

MARCH 6
“Anybody that needs a test, gets a test. They’re there. They have the tests. And the tests are beautiful.”
— Donald Trump
[not true, but who hasn't heard Trump lie?]

MARCH 6
[Holding rallies] “doesn't bother me at all.”
— Donald Trump

MARCH 10
“And we’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.”
— Donald Trump

MARCH 12
“It’s going to go away. ... The United States, because of what I did and what the administration did with China, we have 32 deaths at this point … when you look at the kind of numbers that you’re seeing coming out of other countries, it’s pretty amazing when you think of it.”
— Donald Trump

MARCH 17
“Federal Government is working very well with the Governors and State officials. Good things will happen!”
— Donald Trump

Then, into Trump panic mode:

MARCH 17
"I've always known this is a real — this is a pandemic. I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic."
— Donald Trump

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/17/how-trump-shifted-his-tone-on-coronavirus-134246

It is uncontested that not only were Trump and his administration unprepared, but they had been busy dismantling the US health apparatus when the virus hit. Like a cowboy taking a dump in the bushes, while his horse runs off.

by Tommy Monk Fri May 08, 2020 9:54 pm

But the date of virus first known infection was traced back to be 1st December 2019 in Wuhan China...

I think the virus was here in UK from mid December...

You say you think trump was saying he had been told the virus may have been in USA from November or before...!?

Yet China only started raising the alarm at end of December 2019... And the WHO only started raising concerns at the end of January 2020...

But I'm not interested in this partisan blame game nonsense at the moment... All I'm saying is that I reckon the virus has been doing the rounds a lot longer than is thought by UK govt, as well as probably all other national govts too... And that a huge proportion of UK population have already had it... And we are much nearer to level needed for herd immunity than is thought, if not even past this level needed for herd immunity...!!!

Basically... Most of us are hiding away from a virus that we have already had and are now immune from...!!!

by Original Quill Fri May 08, 2020 11:54 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:But the date of virus first known infection was traced back to be 1st December 2019 in Wuhan China...

Actually, US intelligence first started advising the president in November, 2019.

Tommy Monk wrote:I think the virus was here in UK from mid December...

Trump didn't chat it up that much over here, either.

Tommy Monk wrote:You say you think trump was saying he had been told the virus may have been in USA from November or before...!?

Trump will say whatever lie that best suits him. I am saying, as a matter of fact, that notice of the coronavirus was in the President's daily briefing as of November, 2019.

Tommy Monk wrote:Yet China only started raising the alarm at end of December 2019... And the WHO only started raising concerns at the end of January 2020...

Yes, we are better than China. We are responsible for the entire world.

Tommy Monk wrote:But I'm not interested in this partisan blame game nonsense at the moment... All I'm saying is that I reckon the virus has been doing the rounds a lot longer than is thought by UK govt, as well as probably all other national govts too... And that a huge proportion of UK population have already had it... And we are much nearer to level needed for herd immunity than is thought, if not even past this level needed for herd immunity...!!!

I deal only in facts. The coronavirus was mentioned in the President's daily briefing, in written form, as well as orally, from November, 2019 forward. If you find innuendos in that fact, pursue it yourself.

Tommy Monk wrote:Basically... Most of us are hiding away from a virus that we have already had and are now immune from...!!!

Antibody testing is the only way to determine that. Trump is afraid of the answer. That is why he has consistently refused to distribute tests of any kind, except for himself, the VP and the WH staff.

by Tommy Monk Sat May 09, 2020 4:45 am

Yet China only started raising the alarm at end of December 2019... And the WHO only started raising concerns at the end of January 2020...

Another article backing up my belief that the virus was doing the rounds long before official recorded 1st cases in many countries...

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/05/health/us-coronavirus-tuesday/index.html

by Original Quill Sat May 09, 2020 9:15 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Yet China only started raising the alarm at end of December 2019... And the WHO only started raising concerns at the end of January 2020...

China is not responsible to me, nor to any of my fellow Americans. However, the American government is. Moreover, I expect more from my own nation because we are the wealthiest, most gifted nation on earth. The government of the United States owes an obligation to the world to be the knowledgeable leader in times of crisis like this.

The World Health Organization (WHO) has no national status, and is in fact totally dependent on nations for support of it's efforts. A criticism of the WHO is a criticism of yourself, especially if you have an obligation to hand information you have over to them.

If the President was being briefed daily on the developments of this virus, and did nothing--indeed, continued his dismantling of nation's health institutions--then I believe the President's and the administration's actions were treasonous.

by Original Quill Sat May 09, 2020 9:42 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Another article backing up my belief that the virus was doing the rounds long before official recorded 1st cases in many countries...

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/05/health/us-coronavirus-tuesday/index.html

Yes, I saw the Chris Cuomo piece when it aired on May 6th.

I have no issue with its claim that the virus was around in late 2019.

This is consistent with my claim that the virus was being mentioned in presidential briefings as early as November 2019. If American intelligence sources were aware of it, and talking about it among themselves, it is apparent that the next link in the chain was failing in its purpose.

This was a 'presidential daily briefing', meaning that next link was the President himself. Amateur that he is, Trump was in denial of the likelihood of a pandemic. It would ruin his wondrous plans for a glorious reelection. He didn't want it to be true, so he treated it like it wasn't true (the spoiled rich kid always gets his way). As a result, nation's chief executive officer failed to take action, and was highly derelict in his duty.

by Tommy Monk Sat May 09, 2020 12:24 pm

The virus is in every country in the world, except maybe one or two...

The reason why numbers of known cases seemed to escalate rapidly was because it was already going round in countries long before any country thought they had it there...

America is no different and no leader could have done anything to stop it arriving in the country unless they shut down all travel into the country back in November... And I'm sure you would have been a supporter of a ban on immigrants back then...

Yeah... Right!!!

by nicko Sat May 09, 2020 4:14 pm

Our Goverment has recently announced that all peoples arriving by Air or Boat will will have to go into isolation, good ,but about 3 months too late ! In the mean time Dozens are coming ashore from Dingy's and are not being tested, some run away and are never seen again !

by Original Quill Sat May 09, 2020 4:16 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The virus is in every country in the world, except maybe one or two...

The reason why numbers of known cases seemed to escalate rapidly was because it was already going round in countries long before any country thought they had it there...

Yes, it had to come from somewhere.

Tommy Monk wrote:America is no different and no leader could have done anything to stop it arriving in the country unless they shut down all travel into the country back in November... And I'm sure you would have been a supporter of a ban on immigrants back then...

Right...they should have shut down much earlier. The one link that could have saved us from that fate, might have been the United States health sciences agencies…The FDA and the CDC, and significantly, the Pandemic Response Team. They had the resources, the people, and the mission. And, they were humming along in the right direction under the leadership of Dr. Obama.

Unfortunately, Trump dismantled their institutions and tore down their efforts, under the guise of paring back and deregulating government health efforts. He appointed a playboy as Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), with instructions to waste as much money as possible on pleasure junkets. Trump had a personal dislike for HHS because it had been built up so magnificently by Dr. Obama (Trump has a particular dislike for Obama because, simply put, Trump doesn’t like people of color).

So, it’s not just that Trump refused to share his knowledge about the virus in November, 2019, and that he ignored taking steps to protect this country for some 70-days, but that he was destroying the US HHS agencies like a rich kid smashing a toy.

by Tommy Monk Sat May 09, 2020 6:11 pm

It wasn't declared as a pandemic by the WHO until it was too late...

by Original Quill Sat May 09, 2020 6:17 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

It wasn't declared as a pandemic by the WHO until it was too late...

Precisely. Because Trump wouldn't share with the world what was being told to him in daily presidential briefings in November, 2019. He withheld because he didn't want bad news about his first term, to come out during a presidential election year.

Confirmed cases: 1,281,281 deaths worldwide...murders, really. How selfish.

by Tommy Monk Sat May 09, 2020 6:40 pm

I know you want to blame trump for anything and everything... But you are just being partisan and you are wrong...

by Original Quill Sat May 09, 2020 7:31 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I know you want to blame trump for anything and everything... But you are just being partisan and you are wrong...

I wish it were just partisanship, tommy. I really do. Back in the days of Nixon, we let politicians become criminal. But with Trump, we let organized criminals become politicians. Do you get what such a transition means?

Imagine if the drug lord El Chapo, were to have taken his money and run for president. Almost immediately it would be off limits to talk about his criminal past...for the same reason you mention: Oh pshaw, that's just partisanship! Somehow, a politician's criminal past is taken for granted, or rejected out of hand. It’s a small step to take someone already tainted by crime, to reverse launder his past and become legitimate.

Just as Nixon was recognized to have gone criminal, an outlaw candidate goes through the wash and comes out as gone political. Politics, by prior definition, is non-criminal. We really do have an organized crime figure who has come out of the wash, and we have cheerleaders like you who use their coat sleeves to polish the patina.

You have joined the core of supporters that scare other politicians, and prevent a criminal housecleaning. Y'all did see, during impeachment, what Republicans did in the face of clear evidence of treasonous behavior. They actually declared seditious behavior as ‘not impeachable’. The Republican Senate, our last refuge, is scared shitless. The tail is wagging the dog.

A president can no longer be declared under immunity. Why we didn't see this before, as unfathomable. Now we will almost certainly see members of the Gambino family and the Lucchese, Genovese, Bonanno, and Colombo families, as well as Guzman, all entering the same racket. It's Air Force One or prison, which do you prefer?

It is small wonder that Trump idolizes Putin. Putin is an unchallenged authoritarian like he, Trump, would like to be.

by Tommy Monk Sat May 09, 2020 9:20 pm

I thought we were talking about covid19...

You are conflating a lot of other stuff and speculation here Quill...

by Original Quill Sat May 09, 2020 10:24 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I thought we were talking about covid19...

You are conflating a lot of other stuff and speculation here Quill...

You raised the issue of partisanship: "I know you want to blame trump for anything and everything... But you are just being partisan and you are wrong..." -- Tommy Monk

It is my position that criminal acts should not partisan. Many times I see people, especially you tom, raising criminal acts with respect to gangs over there. I realize you are partisan--especially when Muslims are involved--but I also recognize that, in the end, those are criminal behaviors, for which someone must pay.

Now the tables are turned turned. It's time for you to realize that the man in the WH is a criminal, and he is performing criminal acts right before your eyes.

If you can't/don't recognize the distinction between criminal acts and political acts, don't complain if soon all of criminal law goes out the window.

by Tommy Monk Sun May 10, 2020 2:12 pm

I thought we were talking about covid19...

by Original Quill Sun May 10, 2020 3:44 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

I thought we were talking about covid19...

I repeat, you raised the issue of partisanship: "I know you want to blame trump for anything and everything... But you are just being partisan and you are wrong..." -- Tommy Monk

It is my position that criminal acts should not partisan. Many times I see people, especially you tom, raising criminal acts with respect to gangs over there. I realize you are partisan--especially when Muslims are involved--but I also recognize that, in the end, those are criminal behaviors, for which someone must pay.

Now the tables are turned turned. It's time for you to realize that the man in the WH is a criminal, and he is performing criminal acts right before your eyes.

If you can't/don't recognize the distinction between criminal acts and political acts, don't complain if soon all of criminal law goes out the window.

by Tommy Monk Sun May 10, 2020 4:22 pm

Yes... I did say you were being partisan... And you are...

This thread is about whether people think/know they've had covid19 or not...

You just want to turn everything into a rant about trump...

by Original Quill Sun May 10, 2020 4:43 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Yes... I did say you were being partisan... And you are...

This thread is about whether people think/know they've had covid19 or not...

You just want to turn everything into a rant about trump...

You keep bringing that up and going off topic.

Tom, the only way in which Trump comes up is he is so entwined with the failures related to public protections that governments are supposed to deliver. When you bring up these problems, what else is there to do but to identify the source, and comment on how the WH is frustrating any remedy.

If you don't want to bring up problems, speak to how your rose garden is growing, the weather, or other happy thoughts. You can't exactly discuss a disaster, and not go to the periphery to discuss causes and consequences.

by Tommy Monk Sun May 10, 2020 5:14 pm

The cause was a new virus that originated in China... and which had spread around the world much earlier than anyone thought it had done...

by Original Quill Sun May 10, 2020 5:56 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
The cause was a new virus that originated in China... and which had spread around the world much earlier than anyone thought it had done...

I appreciate your filling in that detail, tommy. Now let others add their comments as to causes and consequences.

If the matter were covered with the appearance of the virus, we could just stop it right there by quarantining a person or two. But, then the virus went through a period of what is known as "spread". It spread to all of Wuhan, then all of China, then all of Asia, then it moved to Europe, and thence to the Americas.

The virus exposed the strengths and weaknesses of various political operators. Italy taught us what happens when you simply ignore it. South Korea taught us how to prepare properly. The virus also exposed the disastrous results of American deregulation of the health industry, and British austerity turned on the NHS. Where, once there was an armed and prepared community, poised to meet such a threat, the Tories and Trump were in the middle of a campaign to disarm our society of its defenses...with disastrous consequences.

In the course of that spread, in addition to disrobing our defenses, severe mistakes were made socially ... primarily by people addressing the political, rather than the medical concerns. First, there was denial. Then, there was minimization. Then statesmen turned to the blame game, and pointed fingers at each other--all rather than addressing the virus itself.

Trump was a mastermind of the response part of the game. Not only had he been actively dismantling our defenses prior to the virus, but he did everything to disarm our health and medical institutions as the spread ensued. Trump is nothing if he doesn't have an adversary to attack, and he didn't have an adversary with a mindless virus. So, he fought the medical professionals who predicted and warned, further exacerbating the problem. Like a child smashing a toy, he destroyed (and is still doing so) the very measures that would go in the direction of solving the problem. Like an obese person, who wants to lose weight by taking a pill rather than dieting, Trump wants the shortcut.

Only the Trump shortcut has worked its way into trading lives for profit. Of course, it's of no consequence to him, as he gets testing and medical care instantaneously. He even flaunts his special status by declining a face mask. So, he assumes no risk, while the wee people assume a greater risk.

Honestly, tommy, why would you not want to bring these facts to light...particularly in a democracy, where the people are supposedly in charge? Are you hiding anything else? Is this part of a strategy to change the story? Indeed, why the attempt at censorship of your fellow posters--supposedly your friends?

by Tommy Monk Sun May 10, 2020 7:34 pm

The virus moved to USA in two ways...

The analysis of mutations in virus show that one strain arrived in California from China/South Korea... And the other strain arrived in New York via Europe/UK...

And I'm pretty sure both strains were in USA long before they are thought to have arrived there, and spreading... So it's pretty pointless trying to blame trump for stopping a virus there, when it has spread through the the world...

by Ben Reilly Sun May 10, 2020 7:51 pm

Nobody blames Trump for the virus itself, or the fact that it spread, but for how he failed to react to the spread of the virus. He had the advantage of seeing what was going on in China, Italy, etc., but stuck his head in the sand, insisted C-19 was no different from the flu, touted a medicine that has not been proven to treat C-19, and demonstrated dangerous ignorance about how disease and the human body work.

Now, I'm not big on litigating past mistakes when there's a major crisis still underway, but -- has Trump gotten better or worse at handling the pandemic? I'd say he's getting steadily worse as the election nears. He desperately wishes that everything would be back to normal by Election Day, but as we say in Texas -- wish in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up faster.

by Original Quill Sun May 10, 2020 8:22 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

The virus moved to USA in two ways...

The analysis of mutations in virus show that one strain arrived in California from China/South Korea... And the other strain arrived in New York via Europe/UK...

And I'm pretty sure both strains were in USA long before they are thought to have arrived there, and spreading... So it's pretty pointless trying to blame trump for stopping a virus there, when it has spread through the the world...

Not true, tommy. Imagine if Trump hadn't tried to destroy all research and research efforts into the underlying SARS microbe. Perhaps watchful eyes might have been able to observe the mutations, and see a pandemic coming. That was the idea of the research that Obama had put in place.

What if the FDA and CDC had been actively testing, and had been working closely with the researchers to come up with measures to stop the spread. Building on efforts that Dr. Obama had initiated, we might have already had therapeutic cures. Research might have kept pace with the microbe, and we'd already have a vaccine. And more vaccines coming. A work in progress, still progressing. What I'm describing is laboratories keeping pace with the bug--research that is on-going and actively engaged in the battle.

Even had we fallen behind the, Pandemic Research Team might have just the thing to minimize spread. They had already developed a plan...a book of procedure for the authorities to follow in the event of a major disease epidemic (as the title suggests). Working like the National Transportation Safety Board with aviation accidents, the Pandemic Team might have stopped spread in its tracks. They might have gotten control of it in Asia, or perhaps in northern Italy, before it came to the UK or the Americas.

Dr. Obama had prepared for this. He had institutions in place, research in progress, and knowledgeable guidelines in the event that a disease spread was happening. Why did Trump destroy all of that, and dismantle the measures in place? Apparently, it was ego. He hated blacks, and thus he hated Obama. He wanted to dismantle and negate all that Obama had put in place. In addition, he wanted to deregulate everything, so he completely gutted the Department of Health and Human Services, and named as Secretary, a playboy with instructions to use departmental resources to vacation with friends, family and neighbors.

It was a senseless ego trip. It's one thing not to devote anymore resources, but quite another thing to deliberately dismantle institutions. That takes hatred. So, now, America has about 80,000 preventable deaths attributable to good old racism--a lesson for southerners: Mah white mum died for racism. How you like that Bama Bubba?

by Tommy Monk Sun May 10, 2020 10:18 pm

Waffle...

by Ben Reilly Sun May 10, 2020 10:56 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Waffle...

Nobody blames Trump for the virus itself, or the fact that it spread, but for how he failed to react to the spread of the virus. He had the advantage of seeing what was going on in China, Italy, etc., but stuck his head in the sand, insisted C-19 was no different from the flu, touted a medicine that has not been proven to treat C-19, and demonstrated dangerous ignorance about how disease and the human body work.

Now, I'm not big on litigating past mistakes when there's a major crisis still underway, but -- has Trump gotten better or worse at handling the pandemic? I'd say he's getting steadily worse as the election nears. He desperately wishes that everything would be back to normal by Election Day, but as we say in Texas -- wish in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up faster.

by Original Quill Mon May 11, 2020 12:39 am

by Tommy Monk Mon May 11, 2020 9:29 am

Everybody had the advantage of seeing a bit of what was going on in China ..

I've been following the story since mid November too!

So all countries govts and politicians have known much the same...

But all countries have been affected by the spread of the virus because it has spread faster and wider than anybody knew about!

by Syl Mon May 11, 2020 12:50 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Everybody had the advantage of seeing a bit of what was going on in China ..

I've been following the story since mid November too!

So all countries govts and politicians have known much the same...

But all countries have been affected by the spread of the virus because it has spread faster and wider than anybody knew about!

A 'bit' being the operative word.
Maybe if China had been more open and honest from the outset the world wouldn't be in such a mess right now.

by Original Quill Mon May 11, 2020 4:00 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Everybody had the advantage of seeing a bit of what was going on in China ..

I've been following the story since mid November too!

So all countries govts and politicians have known much the same...

But all countries have been affected by the spread of the virus because it has spread faster and wider than anybody knew about!

Tommy, you can't continue to use China as a reason to ignore other blunders and deficiencies. Whether China intentionally withheld information is, at best, the subject of after-event investigations, primarily for historians.

But there are simultaneous, and post-China abuses here. In particular, the behavior of the US administration both prior to, and during the infection event, have been abominable. These wrongs are affecting us in the here-and-now--ie, they are still going on--and they demand much more immediate attention.

by Tommy Monk Tue May 12, 2020 7:28 pm

Interestingly in this highly scientific poll of newsfix posters... (joke)

50% of those polled responded saying that they had either had been confirmed to have had the virus or thought they have had the virus (although untested)...

I personally know about 2 dozen people who say they are pretty sure they have had the virus... And they all say they know others who have also likely had it... Although none have been tested for it, and none are on the official list of confirmed cases...

Then when you think there will be huge numbers of others who have had this virus with mild or no symptoms too...

And that this virus has been going round since before Christmas here in UK...

Probably about half the UK population have already had it... Or maybe even more...!

by Original Quill Tue May 12, 2020 8:02 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Interestingly in this highly scientific poll of newsfix posters... (joke)

50% of those polled responded saying that they had either had been confirmed to have had the virus or thought they have had the virus (although untested)...

I personally know about 2 dozen people who say they are pretty sure they have had the virus... And they all say they know others who have also likely had it... Although none have been tested for it, and none are on the official list of confirmed cases...

Then when you think there will be huge numbers of others who have had this virus with mild or no symptoms too...

And that this virus has been going round since before Christmas here in UK...

Probably about half the UK population have already had it... Or maybe even more...!

I believe in UFO's, but it's just a hunch.

by Tommy Monk Tue May 12, 2020 8:18 pm

It's just a hunch to claim that huge numbers of untested people haven't already had this virus...

by Original Quill Wed May 13, 2020 2:36 am

Tommy Monk wrote:It's just a hunch to claim that huge numbers of untested people haven't already had this virus...

Right. The only way to be certain is to test everyone, anytime, anywhere. That's what I do with my A1C test. Negligible cost. Easy to do. Let's get started. How many of you think you've actually had the covid19 virus? - Page 2 2190311264

How many of you think you've actually had the covid19 virus? - Page 2 2190311264

by Tommy Monk Wed May 13, 2020 12:21 pm

I'm happy to do an antibody test as soon as possible.

And I reckon that if everyone was tested then we would see masses of people have already had this virus...

by Original Quill Wed May 13, 2020 3:39 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I'm happy to do an antibody test as soon as possible.

The emphasis is on "as soon as possible." Trump is artificially creating a shortfall by limiting manufacture of tests. When tests are imported off-shore and states try to ship them in, he sends in government agents to confiscate the shipment. He claims they must be taken into a national storage, to be redistributed; however, in reality they go down a black hole and are never seen again. It has gotten so bad that the states of Maryland, California and Washington have met in-coming aircraft with fully armed National Guard units, with orders to prevent the federal agents from seizing the shipment.

Why is the federal government initiating such reckless action? For the simple reason that widespread testing would yield results, and those results who show how badly Trump has fooked up in preparations, response and after-actions.

Maybe, if there is a shortage there too, Trump has shared the strategy with BoJo.

by Tommy Monk Thu May 14, 2020 9:08 am

UK have just approved an antibody test after it has been examined at Porton Down and found to be 100% accurate...

And I still think that once we start using it to test UK population, we will find huge numbers of us have already had it...

by Syl Thu May 14, 2020 12:16 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:UK have just approved an antibody test after it has been examined at Porton Down and found to be 100% accurate...

And I still think that once we start using it to test UK population, we will find huge numbers of us have already had it...

That's brilliant news, I heard them talking about this this morning on BBC radio.
Tommy, you may have heard the same conversation, where it was stated that there is still no surety that once someone has had the virus they then have immunity. They simply don't know yet.

by Tommy Monk Thu May 14, 2020 12:31 pm

If you've had this new virus once, and fought it off... then your body is likely to be immune from it, as is the way with other Corona viruses, at least for many months or even up to a few years or even longer...

Plus, if you do get it again having successfully fought it off once before... Then it will likely be much more easy to fight it off again as it is a virus that your immune system will recognise and be able to act against quicker and more effectively...

by Syl Thu May 14, 2020 12:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

If you've had this new virus once, and fought it off... then your body is likely to be immune from it, as is the way with other Corona viruses, at least for many months or even up to a few years or even longer...

Plus, if you do get it again having successfully fought it off once before... Then it will likely be much more easy to fight it off again as it is a virus that your immune system will recognise and be able to act against quicker and more effectively...

The bottom line is the scientists just don't know yet, and they have said enough times this virus is different to others in many ways.

Maybe you would get a milder dose the second time around (and no one knows whether that's the case either) but you would still be infectious to others.

by Tommy Monk Thu May 14, 2020 12:53 pm

The belief that people can be reinfected after being cleared of the virus, came from a couple hundred cases in South Korea, where it was thought they were reinfected, after testing positive some time after being clear... But was found to be false positive test results in those particular people...

Discounting those couple hundred cases... There have not been any reinfections so far... And exposure to other Corona viruses brings a level of immunity for some time at least after fighting off virus...

by Original Quill Thu May 14, 2020 4:21 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The belief that people can be reinfected after being cleared of the virus, came from a couple hundred cases in South Korea, where it was thought they were reinfected, after testing positive some time after being clear... But was found to be false positive test results in those particular people...

Discounting those couple hundred cases... There have not been any reinfections so far... And exposure to other Corona viruses brings a level of immunity for some time at least after fighting off virus...

No, you fail to properly understand the rules and procedures of science. The belief that people who have had the virus develop immunity has not been shown by positive data. In the absence of proof of immunity, the null hypothesis (not proven) is confirmed.

You are reversing the issue. You assume immunity attaches with covid-19, and ask 'why not'. However, nothing is assumed in science. Thus, immunity may not be assumed. It must first be proved to exist with each new pathogen...and covid-19 is a new pathogen.

by Tommy Monk Thu May 14, 2020 5:27 pm

No... I'm not failing to understand anything...

by Original Quill Thu May 14, 2020 5:47 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:No... I'm not failing to understand anything...

Yes you are. Are we going to go through another debate like the one on your personification of nature?

Science is based upon positivism. There must be positive evidence for everything we hold to be true. That means there has to be positive evidence that covid-19 develops immunity.

You can't assume something, and then go on to discuss how contrary circumstances can be explained. You did this on your theory of 'nature', when you proposed that nature had intentions and purposes and homosexuality was contrary to nature's purposes. Only persons have intentions and purposes.

Here we go again.

by Tommy Monk Thu May 14, 2020 5:57 pm

If you mean that you are going to start twisting and misrepresenting what I'm saying again...?

by Original Quill Thu May 14, 2020 6:03 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:If you mean that you are going to start twisting and misrepresenting what I'm saying again...?

No twisting involved. You simply don't understand science.

by Tommy Monk Thu May 14, 2020 6:27 pm

I do understand quill...

I posted already about why it was thought that people who had recovered from covid19 could be reinfected soon after... And why this was found to be wrong...

The evidence so far shows that reinfection isn't happening...

Having the virus and then having the body's immune system develop antibodies to fight it off, will establish a high level of immunity... in the same way as a vaccine works in triggering an immune response of forcing the body to create antibodies and thus creating a high level of immunity...

We know from other Corona viruses that the bodys immune response creates antibodies and renders immunity for varying lengths of time...

The only questions are... How long?... And how fast is the virus mutating and by how much is it changing, for the virus to be significantly different enough that it is seen by the immune system as being a new virus where existing antibodies aren't able to recognise...

by Tommy Monk Thu May 14, 2020 6:44 pm

Looks like it's quill who doesn't understand the science about how the body's immune responses work and how vaccines work...!?

lol!

by Original Quill Thu May 14, 2020 6:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

I do understand quill...

I posted already about why it was thought that people who had recovered from covid19 could be reinfected soon after... And why this was found to be wrong...

The evidence so far shows that reinfection isn't happening...

Reinfection is the absence of immunity, so they are one and the same. The adaptive immune system creates antibodies against a specific pathogen. Immunity development is not automatic. If the pathogen creates ways to prevent the development of antibodies, as with HIV, there will be reinfection. No need to presume the adaptive immune system is working, until proven scientifically.

There is no evidence because there is no testing. Without testing, we have no idea.

by Original Quill Thu May 14, 2020 6:54 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:We know from other Corona viruses that the bodys immune response creates antibodies and renders immunity for varying lengths of time...

We know with flues, that antibodies develop for a specific pathogen. But flu is not covid-19. Neither are "other corona viruses". Covid-19 is an entirely new pathogen. We don't know anything about it.

There is no evidence because there is no testing. Without testing, we have no idea.

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