Ann Widdecombe

First topic message reminder :

http://news.sky.com/story/ann-widdecombe-science-may-produce-an-answer-to-homosexuality-11733559

Not just ugly, but impossibly stupid, homophobic, racist, has become a right wing extremist and appears as mad as a bag of frogs.
I wonder whether she spread for Nigel?
It's clear to see why he recruited her.
I cannot understand why she is so anti gay, when no bloke in his right mind would want to impale her.

What is more telling about society and how it seems to be back peddling, is the quest to stop free speech. Another theatre has cancelled her appearance, jumping on the band waggon to shut her down.
It would be more understandable if she had planned to talk about her opinions on sexuality, but she hadn't.

What is also questionable is WHY people are suddenly up in arms about comments she made seven years ago....wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that the BREXIT party did very well thank you in the recent elections?

The theatre's are totally allowed to pick and chose who they have in.
Barring Widders is their choice.
With free speech comes responsibility.
Would many places welcome Nick Griffin, Tommy Yaxley Robinson , George Galloway or Hatie Flopkins? Probably not.

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Not really, as you have never been a homosexual and had people think you need to be cured

Your love and effection with your husband does not effect anyone else does it?

The view of some people to think they can cure only homosexuals, does effect people

So I dont think you are listening at all here

YOU are not listening, but then you never do.
Everyone who has loved knows exactly what attraction means on account of they have experienced it.
You throw in the most ridiculous personal comments everytime you debate when people dont agree with you....if you dont want a few home truths back.... dont do it.

You talk as if every homosexual feels the same about their sexuality.
I should imagine they have as many hang ups as the average straight person.
I am straight, but I dont presume I could speak for every straight woman...that would be ridiculous...right?
Whether you are gay/straight or God knows what, you can only speak for yourself.

Actually i listened to everyone and how i am then able to respond to their views
Actually love and attraction is very different. For example, you can love your parents and not be attracted to them
There is also many forms of attraction. There is the attractions we cannot contro like who we are attracted to, but that we can control how we act on them. So everyone has loved, being as many has loved someone whether that be a parent, sibling, son, daughter or someone they are married to. You conflated to sperate things and trying to make them the same thing which is quite franky really pooor.

I never made any personnal views here and it really shows a form of desperatiion on your part to deflect away from the actual debate and pin this on me. I have not been nasty to anyone here

I never claimed that homosexuals feel the same about sexuality. What I did say is that they will feel different in how they are accepted into society and hetrosexcuals never have to go through this. So please spare me the false charges Syl, its not going to work and all you end up doing is proving my stance on you. Being the stirring person that you are.
The point is you have no conception what it means to be gay or face the challenages of this. When some in society do not accept you for who you are. So goinbg off hetrosexuals, who never face this, is about as poor as it gets

So I never threw any insults and now as per usual you turn this onto me, when you are being shown  some of your views are poor and wrong and you cannot admiot to this. Frankly, I think its funny how you can even attempt to change the debate and make false claims on me. That just says to me, you are quite the  vindictive person i have always thought you are. I never did anything wrong or hateful here and yet you have attempted to lie and claim so. What does that say about you?

The pity party begins.....

Syl wrote:The pity party begins.....

I dont need pity and never have. Nice try again at deflection from the crappy and shitty things you said
How about you take ownership or when you are nasty?

So what is your aim? Presumably you wish that everyone accepts homosexuality without question, a good intention but how will that be achieved, it would seem by a certain amount of coercion by attempting to shame people and shut them down from expressing their views. In the case of people who are well known shutting them out of their gainful employment. Its not just with homosexuality either, anything nor currently politically correct is targeted, look at the universities banning speakers etc.
The rot is setting in this country with free speech as Syl says but not from those who disagree on the pc views, I'll branch out like Didge here and say its becoming like book burning in Germany before the war, is that next here I wonder.

Syl wrote:What is more telling about society and how it seems to be back peddling, is the quest to stop free speech. Another theatre has cancelled her appearance, jumping on the band waggon to shut her down.
It would be more understandable if she had planned to talk about her opinions on sexuality, but she hadn't.  

What is also questionable is WHY people are suddenly up in arms about comments she made seven years ago....wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that the BREXIT party did very well thank you in the recent elections?

Since when has anyone stopped her free speech?
I am sorry butr that is offering a poor excuse, because nobody has stopped her and in fact she has stood by these views even today

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48553959

When people make really poor arguments to defend crappy things people believe in. The open the door to make acceptible the most hateful viuews going.
Everyone believes in free speech, which means being able to condemn poeople with hateful views

Vintage wrote:So what is your aim? Presumably you wish that everyone accepts homosexuality without question, a good intention but how will that be achieved, it would seem by a certain amount of coercion by attempting to shame people and shut them down from expressing their views. In the case of people who are well known shutting them out of their gainful employment. Its not just with homosexuality either, anything nor currently politically correct is targeted, look at the universities banning speakers etc.
The rot is setting in this country with free speech as Syl says but not from those who disagree on the pc views, I'll branch out like Didge here and say its becoming like book burning in Germany before the war, is that next here I wonder.

Why would not everyone accept homosexuality, when it never effects them?

I cannot believe what I am hearing.
If homosexuality is to be accepted, of which it never has, it requires people to change their views.
Sadly this is not the case but for you to think people should not speak out on people that hold views against them being in love with the person they love. For you to then claim they are being shut down. Happens to be the most ridicopus argument you have claimed.

Unless you think homosexuality is a crime, how and why shoud this even be a debate in this day and age?

Seriously?

I am sorry but your argument is false, fake and pathetic, as she has continually been allowed to express her views against homosexuality throughout her life and even been able to effect them by voting against them. How dare you calim she is being silenced, when she has done nothing but as an MP before try to deny basic human rights to homosexuals

And you are arguing about Ann's rights, which have never come into question in law or been voted on?

For fuck sake

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:What is more telling about society and how it seems to be back peddling, is the quest to stop free speech. Another theatre has cancelled her appearance, jumping on the band waggon to shut her down.
It would be more understandable if she had planned to talk about her opinions on sexuality, but she hadn't.  

What is also questionable is WHY people are suddenly up in arms about comments she made seven years ago....wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that the BREXIT party did very well thank you in the recent elections?

Since when has anyone stopped her free speech?
I am sorry butr that is offering a poor excuse, because nobody has stopped her and in fact she has stood by these views even today

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48553959

When people make really poor arguments to defend crappy things people believe in. The open the door to make acceptible the most hateful viuews going.
Everyone believes in free speech, which means being able to condemn poeople with hateful views

So far three theatres have cancelled her appearances.
So much for free speech.

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Since when has anyone stopped her free speech?
I am sorry butr that is offering a poor excuse, because nobody has stopped her and in fact she has stood by these views even today

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48553959

When people make really poor arguments to defend crappy things people believe in. The open the door to make acceptible the most hateful viuews going.
Everyone believes in free speech, which means being able to condemn poeople with hateful views

So far three theatres have cancelled her appearances.
So much for free speech.

How is that stopping free speech?
That is private buisnesses not wanting to be associated with her poor backward views
Are you now saying they have to forced to accept her views?

She can go to speakers corner and spout off for nothing.
That would be free.
Asking the public to actually PAY to listen to her rants and vitriol is. NOT free, it costs money.
And the theatre's are there to make money.
Widders would be a loss maker.

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:

So far three theatres have cancelled her appearances.
So much for free speech.

How is that stopping free speech?
That is private buisnesses not wanting to be associated with her poor backward views
Are you now saying they have to forced to accept her views?

No they are not forced to accept her views, but as her show didn't even touch on her views on homosexuality, why would they cancel?
She has not said anything different to what she said seven years ago.
Seems the theatres are bowing to the people who now want to discredit her....especially as her party has done so well in the recent elections.

Andy wrote:She can go to speakers corner and spout off for nothing.
That would be free.
Asking the public to actually PAY to listen to her rants and vitriol is. NOT free, it costs money.
And the theatre's are there to make money.
Widders would be a loss maker.

You may be right, the press are very powerful, and they have done a brilliant hatchet job on her in the last few days.

I am actually appallled that people would use free speech here.
She has been able to continually express her views through the media and even back up her views on this

To claim her free speech is being denied is nothing short of a crock of shit
Some places now do not want to be associated with her and have cancelled her events as rpivate businesses

Its like finding out someone was hosting Hitler and now found out he actually hates Jews, slavs, homosxuals, disabled and now peopple think its wrong the business owner is appaled with his views and claim his free speech has been taken away

For fuck sake. All I see here, is people diminishing the rights of homosexuals and instead defending someone, who if Muslim with said poor beliefs, they would never defend.

Go figure

Laters people

I wonder who will be next to be shut down when they give their opinions?
You either agree with free speech (and this is free speech not hate speech we are discussing) or you dont, it's a dangerous road to travel down when you shut people up like this....tomorrow it could be your own views that are being disallowed.

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:

So far three theatres have cancelled her appearances.
So much for free speech.

How is that stopping free speech?
That is private buisnesses not wanting to be associated with her poor backward views




Are you now saying they have to forced to accept her views?

Only so far as you are advocating forcing people to accept other peoples views on various subjects.
Provided people don't break the law or coerce other people, their views however distasteful, can be expressed, or otherwise we no longer have free speech..
I thought you'd studied psychology, how easy do you think it is to change peoples heart felt views, maybe you could get some thumbs screws on the homophobes or how about a bit of water boarding. How easily would someone be able to change your views on homosexuality for instance.

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

How is that stopping free speech?
That is private buisnesses not wanting to be associated with her poor backward views
Are you now saying they have to forced to accept her views?

No they are not forced to accept her views, but as her show didn't even touch on her views on homosexuality, why would they cancel?
She has not said anything different to what she said seven years ago.
Seems the theatres  are bowing to the people who now want to discredit her....especially as her party has done so well in the recent elections.

Simple reason, would you in 1933 after finding out the views of Hitler , then host him?
Yes we know she has not said anything different, its as appalling as it once was. You seem to think they know this.
Now they do and they are not happy and its their choice. That is not diminishing free speech

Vintage wrote:

phildidge wrote:

How is that stopping free speech?
That is private buisnesses not wanting to be associated with her poor backward views




Are you now saying they have to forced to accept her views?

Only so far as you are advocating forcing people to accept other peoples views on various subjects.
Provided people don't break the law or coerce other people, their views however distasteful, can be expressed, or otherwise we no longer have free speech..
I thought you'd studied psychology, how easy do you think it is to change peoples heart felt views, maybe you could get some thumbs screws on the homophobes or how about a bit of water boarding. How easily would someone be able to change your views on homosexuality for instance.

OMG, who is being forced?
I have studied and you are again making a really poor argument
Nobody has said she has to accept homosexuality.
Seriously, how do you continually invent things that are not even being presented here?
Who is even forcing her to change her beliefs?
So your view to change people is based on something you have never studied and clearly never worked, being as Nigel farge, is stiill as populr as helll and now seen as the biggest party?
I am sorry Vintage, you are simple making shit up here and nothing related to the debate

So what exactly are you going on about ?
You seem to be saying there is no room for anyone with homophobic views so how do you deal with that.
If someone is as convinced as you are but have the opposite opinion how do you change their views, don't they have the same right as you to try to convince others of their views?
If you are saying she is entitled to her views as I have been saying, why have we gone through all this?
Let her have her views and leave it there, not work up a witch hunt. Should she or anyone else with her views take it further than their opinions the law is there to deal with them.
I really don't think the majority of people pay much attention to her kind of views so why stoke it up.

Vintage wrote:So what exactly are you going on about ?
You seem to be saying there is no room for anyone with homophobic views so how do you deal with that.
If someone is as convinced as you are but have the opposite opinion how do you change their views, don't they have the same right as you to try to convince others of their views?
If you are saying she is entitled to her views as I have been saying, why have we gone through all this?
Let her have her views and leave it there, not work up a witch hunt. Should she or anyone else with her views take it further than their opinions the law is there to deal with them.
I really don't think the majority of people pay much attention to her kind of views so why stoke it up.

Where did i say there is no room for people with hateful views?
You simple invented this and hence why I brought up Nigel Farage
At no point have I said nobody should be denied to express and convert people to their views.
We see this happen everyday, when people are bought into religious gibberish
Hence again you invent things, I have never said or anyone else on this forum
How about instead of poorly deflecting and going off things never said to you, that you actually address the points.??
So to your view to leave it there. Okay, so someone says lets wipe out white people and they no longer have rights?

Do you want to leave that there Vintage?

I am sure you will be the first to piss and kick up a fuss more than any single poster here, if any politician said this

There is not even a witch hunt, but all I am seeing is you seem to think homophobic people should be offered protection from criticism.

Sorry, but if anyone is racist and believed that one people should be wiped out or converted to being black, what ever that would mean. Based on really hateful views, as this woman has. Its like you saying to me, I should have in 1930 left it as there, with Hitler spouting hate against the Jews

Seriously, get a grip and stop defending people that hoild poor views that actually effect the well being of others

This means they have a right to their views, but also people have a right to condemn them also for them

phildidge wrote:

Vintage wrote:So what exactly are you going on about ?
You seem to be saying there is no room for anyone with homophobic views so how do you deal with that.
If someone is as convinced as you are but have the opposite opinion how do you change their views, don't they have the same right as you to try to convince others of their views?
If you are saying she is entitled to her views as I have been saying, why have we gone through all this?
Let her have her views and leave it there, not work up a witch hunt. Should she or anyone else with her views take it further than their opinions the law is there to deal with them.
I really don't think the majority of people pay much attention to her kind of views so why stoke it up.

Where did i say there is no room for people with hateful views?
You simple invented this and hence why I brought up Nigel Farage
At no point have I said nobody should be denied to express and concert people to their views.
We see this happen everysat, when people are bought into religious gibberish
Hence again you invent things, I have never said or anyone else on this forum
How about instead of poorly deflecting and going off things never said to you, that you actually address the points.??
So to your view to leave it there. Okay, so someone says lets wipe out white people and they no longer have rights?

Ann Widdecombe never suggested 'wiping anyone out'

just saying

gelico wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Where did i say there is no room for people with hateful views?
You simple invented this and hence why I brought up Nigel Farage
At no point have I said nobody should be denied to express and concert people to their views.
We see this happen everysat, when people are bought into religious gibberish
Hence again you invent things, I have never said or anyone else on this forum
How about instead of poorly deflecting and going off things never said to you, that you actually address the points.??
So to your view to leave it there. Okay, so someone says lets wipe out white people and they no longer have rights?

Ann Widdecombe never suggested 'wiping anyone out'

just saying

What do you think converting homosexuals to hetrosexuals would create?

No homosexuals by any chance?

no one was talking about 'forcing' anyone to do anything

there will always be those in society that think homosexuality is wrong. there will always be those who don't care either way

as for the old opinions dying out and younger more tolerant views taking place. that's all very well but when i travel on a bus or train when it's chucking out at school time, i hear a whole lot of ''oh he/that is just so gay'' whether describing a person or a thing gay will be used as an insult. and this is today's kids

i don't think those kids would attack a homosexual person but they certainly don't seem to be very ''aware'' as such

nor do they really seem to give a shit

Sometimes you really are naive gelico and never see the bigger picture

The point is you need to understand where she is coming from and how she see homosexuality is wrong and wants to cure this. I imagine she prays everyday this could happen and that homosexuality can be wiped out. As you neglect what she believes in and how she sees it as a sin. So plase spare me the poor understanding you have on this. I have studied history and the hate that goes wit this and when people look to find a cure to something that is not even an illness. A.K.A Jews, slavs etc. I know the mentality behind how people think. They also slip and fall easily into the mentality to purge these people from society. So continue to be naive. History is littered with people claiming good intentions and committing the worst barbarity

phildidge wrote:Sometimes you really are naive gelico and never see the bigger picture

The point is you need to understand where she is coming from and how she see homosexuality is wrong

I do understand where she is coming from and I say, so what. She is entitled to think/beieve that if she wants to. Many people think that homosexuality is weird/baffling/dirty etc with or without any kind of religious influence either. That's just how it is. Her views don't have any impact on for example les and his partner any more than les and his partner have any influence in her life

undoubtedly the laws of equality will remain the same. No one is suggesting scrapping gay rights laws are they?

people are entitled to hold whatever views they like as long as they are not advocating hatred or violence towards anyone, who really cares?

I didn't see anything that indicated she wants to cure every homosexual more like the option is there if required.
Anyway I'm going to finish here before it becomes one of those Friday nights and look for something else to talk about.

gelico wrote:

phildidge wrote:Sometimes you really are naive gelico and never see the bigger picture

The point is you need to understand where she is coming from and how she see homosexuality is wrong

I do understand where she is coming from and I say, so what.  She is entitled to think/beieve that if she wants to. Many people think that homosexuality is weird/baffling/dirty etc with or without any kind of religious influence either.  That's just how it is.  Her views don't have any impact on for example les and his partner any more than les and his partner have any influence in her life

undoubtedly the laws of equality will remain the same.  No one is suggesting scrapping gay rights laws are they?

people are entitled to hold whatever views they like as long as they are not advocating hatred or violence towards anyone, who really cares?

You say so what and it does not matter to her, but it matters, because there have been many people anti-gay professing to claim they can cure people being gay. All of which you seem to ignore. So yes hr views do matter. It matters in countries where homosexuals are executed, as they once were in this country. So to say so waht, shows again you are being so naive, you fail to see what is needed to help bring about change for the well being of others.

I mean lets take your stance for a min ute and change all you have said above and be in Germany in the 1930's and replace homosexuality with Jew?

If you think we should ignore people who adviocate poor views that in enssence look to view homosexuality as wrong, then you normalise that wrong and hatred and that is exactly what happened duuring the 1930's in Nazi Germany

What you fail to grasp, is that does not effect you, try actually engaging your brain and wondering how this might effect homosexuals?

So your view to not be concerened about said views, is why and how views are allowed to happen that effect the well being of people all over the world. There is people like her in the Muslim world, but thir view of conversion therapy is basically a death penalty

Vintage wrote:I didn't see anything that indicated she wants to cure every homosexual more like the option is there if required.
Anyway I'm going to finish here before it becomes one of those Friday nights and look for something else to talk about.

Ask yourself, why would she want to have any cured?

Night

I will repeat, she can hold what ever view she likes, but if some of you think people have to go along with said poor views and weclome here. Then you are trying to say her views should be forced onto them. For gelico to make views never knowing homosexuals still face hate crimes, was as poor as someone could get. To say what she sees matters, over what a homosexual suffers with hate, was a dumb as it gets. I know gelico has not a hateful bone in her body, but when seh defends someone who actually is hateful towards homosexuals. She does her self no favours. Again nobody is saying Ann cannot believe what she wants to , but people also pay a price for when they do wrong. It happens to many people when they say the wrong thing and i dont see the same posters kicking up a fuss, when many have in the world. This is simple people trying to defend a homophobe. My mum is a homophobe and I will defend her as amy mother, bhut not her homophobic beliefs.

See the difference?

gelico wrote:


no one was talking about 'forcing' anyone to do anything

there will always be those in society that think homosexuality is wrong.  there will always be those who don't care either way

as for the old opinions dying out and younger more tolerant views taking place.  that's all very well but when i travel on a bus or train when it's chucking out at school time, i hear a whole lot of ''oh he/that is just so gay'' whether describing a person or a thing gay will be used as an insult.  and this is today's kids

i don't think those kids would attack a homosexual person but they certainly don't seem to be very ''aware'' as such

nor do they really seem to give a shit

Thugs arrested for trying to make a gay couple kiss. And the thugs were kids.
Who says they don't give a shit?

https://mol.im/a/7114415

Andy wrote:

gelico wrote:


no one was talking about 'forcing' anyone to do anything

there will always be those in society that think homosexuality is wrong.  there will always be those who don't care either way

as for the old opinions dying out and younger more tolerant views taking place.  that's all very well but when i travel on a bus or train when it's chucking out at school time, i hear a whole lot of ''oh he/that is just so gay'' whether describing a person or a thing gay will be used as an insult.  and this is today's kids

i don't think those kids would attack a homosexual person but they certainly don't seem to be very ''aware'' as such

nor do they really seem to give a shit

Thugs arrested for trying to make a gay couple kiss. And the thugs were kids.
Who says they don't give a shit?

https://mol.im/a/7114415

i saw this on twitter just now, andy. this is utterly horrendous. i hope they throw the book at those thugs as well as publicly naming and shaming them. the fact that so many people are outraged about this shows well how people feel about this.

when i said the dont seem to give a shit, what i meant was they dont seem to care about this ''softer kinder'' political speak. that's what i meant when i said they were happy to describe things as 'gay' sorry, should have made that clearer

I have to say, i am sorry, when Eilzel reads the comments here, because none of you have ever walked in his shoes. Sorry mate, it shows people have no conception of empathic intelligence and we both know when hateful views are normalised what happens in history.
Some people think that said views are nothing to be worried about. Well, Hitler started with little support and it was the Wall Street Crash that propelled him to power.

Again she can say what she likes but for people to be up in arms, because people are condemning her for this, says more about how they care for her, than they do actually for homosexuals. More so when she is the actual cause of why some homosexuals feel confused in who they are. Like I said, this was a one way street and not looking at confusion on sexuality. If it was we would see hetrosexuals wanting to be gay. Its just a poor excuse by her to think its acceptable to go after homosexual people, based on her beliefs. Nobody is looking to cure her of her christian beliefs are they? Even though she will like many religious preachers look to convert people to their faith. Us Athiest would rather people come to their own conclusions through reason. We do not convert people, we simple open peoples eyes to being able to find their own paths

phildidge wrote:

gelico wrote:


I do understand where she is coming from and I say, so what.  She is entitled to think/beieve that if she wants to. Many people think that homosexuality is weird/baffling/dirty etc with or without any kind of religious influence either.  That's just how it is.  Her views don't have any impact on for example les and his partner any more than les and his partner have any influence in her life

undoubtedly the laws of equality will remain the same.  No one is suggesting scrapping gay rights laws are they?

people are entitled to hold whatever views they like as long as they are not advocating hatred or violence towards anyone, who really cares?

You say so what and it does not matter to her, but it matters, because there have been many people anti-gay professing to claim they can cure people being gay.

So what? It doesn't matter because such people will mostly be ignored, ridiculed and their argument torn apart anyway, so what does it matter?

I mean lets take your stance for a min ute and change all you have said above and be in Germany in the 1930's and replace homosexuality with Jew?

No

If you think we should ignore people who adviocate poor views that in enssence look to view homosexuality as wrong, then you normalise that wrong and hatred and that is exactly what happened duuring the 1930's in Nazi Germany

I get bored of you bring nazi germany into your posts so whatever, it's really not relevant

What you fail to grasp, is that does not effect you, try actually engaging your brain and wondering how this might effect homosexuals?

Homosexuals can also ignore, ridicule and tear apart ridiculous arguments, along with the rest of us

So your view to not be concerened about said views, is why and how views are allowed to happen that effect the well being of people all over the world. There is people like her in the Muslim world, but thir view of conversion therapy is basically a death penalty

again, i ask, did she talk about ''forced'' conversion?

is she inciting violence?

if no, then stop getting hysterical about other peoples opinions.

you don't have to accept those opinions as your own.

just accept that different people have different views and they may not always agree with yours, is all

What a crock of shit by gelico
So Basically gelico wants me to stop speaking out against a poor view held by Ann, whilst I have not said she can not speak her views?
I am not going to accept her opinions when it could lead to effecting the well being of homosexuals.

Is that so hard for you to understand?

It seems, because you are both Christain, you want to defend her and protect her, but I cannot speak out against her views, hence its actually you trying to shut my views down here, when I am in no waying doing to her

Well unless you actually went to school and understand how people of hate can be allowed to become normalised into society. Then you would understand how Hitler did, when he was going nowhere. It took the wall street crash for him to gain power. Considering she is part of the Brexit party, which really was formely UKIP. Who were very anti-homosexual. Being again they are now the most popular party in the country and she is an MEP. It is a grave concern

So I dont care if you are bored, i am bored with your ignorance of history and hatred that happens to homosexuals. It seems you and others seem more intent on defending a homophobe than  defending homosexuals. When no homosexual has stopped her expressing her views. She wants to cure homosexuals and you do not even see an issue with that shows how blind you are to this issue

Go figure

I don’t think anyone is defending her being homophobic - their points seem to be, if I’m reading correctly - that her particular view of saying IF gays wish to be cured she’d like them to find a cure. Which I find a crock of shit tbh. Why would/should anyone wish to be cured?

phildidge wrote:What a crock of shit by gelicoSo Basically gelico wants me to syop speaking out against a poor view held by Ann, whilst I have not said she can not speak her views?
I am not going to accept her opinions when it could lead to effecting the well being of homosexuals.

Is that so hard for you to understand

It seems, because you are both Christain, you want to defend her and protect her, but I cannot speak out against her views, hence its actually you trying to shut my views down here, when I am in no waying doing to her

Well unless you actually went to school and understand how people of hate can be allowed to become normalised into society. Then you would understand how Hitler did, when he was going nowhere. It took the wall street crash for him to gain power. Considering she is part of the Brexit party, which really was formely UKIP. Who were very anti-homosexual. Being again they are now the most popular party in the country and she is an MEP. It is a grave concern

So I dont care if you are bored, i am bored with your ignorance of history and hatred that happens to homosexuals. It seems you and others seem more intent on defending a homophobe than  defending homosexuals. When no homosexual has stopped her expressing her views

Go figure

ah right, so no talk of any forced conversions

no talk of wiping anyone out

no incitement to violence of any kind

just an opinion (which she was asked for by the way). a poor, worn out, tired, out of date opinion it may well be, but it's still just an opinion

i can't see that you jumping up and down and screeching about Hitler every 5 minutes is likely to change anyone's views either

just my opinion

eddie wrote:I don’t think anyone is defending her being homophobic - their points seem to be, if I’m reading correctly - that her particular view of saying IF gays wish to be cured she’d like them to find a cure. Which I find a crock of shit tbh. Why would/should anyone wish to be cured?

Well some how they think its more a crime that people are speaking out against her views and how wronng they.
Gelico thinks its not a problem, even though the Uk is taking a step to actually ban such people from conducting conversion therapy in this country. Asd the people that do this are normally from the Christian right.
Hey ho, what would I know, but what would gelico know, becuase at the end of the day, she has no conception what it feels like to be ostracised for being gay

It does seem that most gay adults are going to be strong enough to deal with somebody saying something stupid like this.

There's a bit more concern for the emotional state of a a gay teen who were to hear her saying this, but I'm thinking teens probably don't go in too much for Ann Widdecombe.

gelico wrote:

phildidge wrote:What a crock of shit by gelicoSo Basically gelico wants me to syop speaking out against a poor view held by Ann, whilst I have not said she can not speak her views?
I am not going to accept her opinions when it could lead to effecting the well being of homosexuals.

Is that so hard for you to understand

It seems, because you are both Christain, you want to defend her and protect her, but I cannot speak out against her views, hence its actually you trying to shut my views down here, when I am in no waying doing to her

Well unless you actually went to school and understand how people of hate can be allowed to become normalised into society. Then you would understand how Hitler did, when he was going nowhere. It took the wall street crash for him to gain power. Considering she is part of the Brexit party, which really was formely UKIP. Who were very anti-homosexual. Being again they are now the most popular party in the country and she is an MEP. It is a grave concern

So I dont care if you are bored, i am bored with your ignorance of history and hatred that happens to homosexuals. It seems you and others seem more intent on defending a homophobe than  defending homosexuals. When no homosexual has stopped her expressing her views

Go figure

ah right, so no talk of any forced conversions

no talk of wiping anyone out

no incitement to violence of any kind

just an opinion (which she was asked for by the way).  a poor, worn out, tired, out of date opinion it may well be, but it's still just an opinion

i can't see that you jumping up and down and screeching about Hitler every 5 minutes is likely to change anyone's views either

just my opinion

But such a view would look to wipe out homosexuals or do you not understand that?

Its ethnically cleansing homosexuals from society through a view to cure them

Again why do you think such clinics and people are now being banned in this country from practicing shoddy cures?

So I guess the view is now, is not to be concerned with said views with some posters here, being they will never gain traction

Fuck me do people not learn from history

Nobody thought Europe would ever become far right again, and that is exactly what is happenning.

So if people want to ignore these views, they do so at their peril

For gelico to moan that people are speaking out against her views, when nobody has actually called to stop her views, is the biggest double standard going. IUt seems to me, gelico is saying nobody can have a view on her views. Well to that I say fuck off its called free speech

I'm not really bothered what she thinks or says really. This therapy thing probably doesn't work anyway, but what she said was too vague to take much notice of. I don't know why people get so worked up about this kind of thing.

Raggamuffin wrote:I'm not really bothered what she thinks or says really. This therapy thing probably doesn't work anyway, but what she said was too vague  to take much notice of. I don't know why people get so worked up about this kind of thing.

Well would you get worked up if someone tried to convert you from who you are?

gelico wrote:

phildidge wrote:

You say so what and it does not matter to her, but it matters, because there have been many people anti-gay professing to claim they can cure people being gay.

So what?  It doesn't matter because such people will mostly be ignored, ridiculed and their argument torn apart anyway, so what does it matter?

I mean lets take your stance for a min ute and change all you have said above and be in Germany in the 1930's and replace homosexuality with Jew?

No

If you think we should ignore people who adviocate poor views that in enssence look to view homosexuality as wrong, then you normalise that wrong and hatred and that is exactly what happened duuring the 1930's in Nazi Germany

I get bored of you bring nazi germany into your posts so whatever, it's really not relevant

What you fail to grasp, is that does not effect you, try actually engaging your brain and wondering how this might effect homosexuals?

Homosexuals can also ignore, ridicule and tear apart ridiculous arguments, along with the rest of us

So your view to not be concerened about said views, is why and how views are allowed to happen that effect the well being of people all over the world. There is people like her in the Muslim world, but thir view of conversion therapy is basically a death penalty

again, i ask, did she talk about ''forced'' conversion?

is she inciting violence?

if no, then stop getting hysterical about other peoples opinions.

you don't have to accept those opinions as your own.

just accept that different people have different views and they may not always agree with yours, is all

Good post.

Raggamuffin wrote:

gelico wrote:


again, i ask, did she talk about ''forced'' conversion?

is she inciting violence?

if no, then stop getting hysterical about other peoples opinions.

you don't have to accept those opinions as your own.

just accept that different people have different views and they may not always agree with yours, is all

Good post.

Yeah because i am sure gelico, is going to except, ISIS, FGM, child brides etc

I already accepted that ann has different opinions, that does noit mean i cannot speak out against them, which gelico wants me to shut up about funnily enough

eddie wrote:I don’t think anyone is defending her being homophobic - their points seem to be, if I’m reading correctly - that her particular view of saying IF gays wish to be cured she’d like them to find a cure. Which I find a crock of shit tbh. Why would/should anyone wish to be cured?

the only example i could think of really would be like didge's brother in law. someone who comes to the realisation late in life - people can be confused/in denial right into late in their lives.

so mr random wakes one morning and is true to his own feelings. he adores his wife and child but knows that he has sexual attractions to that guy in the gym.

he also knows that there is a 'tablet' available that could 'cure' these attractions and be done with them

does he

a) ignore the tablet and go with his inner desires and be true to himself
b) take the tablet and dispense with any same sex attractions and stay with his wife

equally obviously the same applies for a woman

gelico wrote:

eddie wrote:I don’t think anyone is defending her being homophobic - their points seem to be, if I’m reading correctly - that her particular view of saying IF gays wish to be cured she’d like them to find a cure. Which I find a crock of shit tbh. Why would/should anyone wish to be cured?

the only example i could think of really would be like didge's brother in law.  someone who comes to the realisation late in life - people can be confused/in denial right into late in their lives.

so mr random wakes one morning and is true to his own feelings.  he adores his wife and child but knows that he has sexual attractions to that guy in the gym.

he also knows that there is a 'tablet' available that could 'cure' these attractions and be done with them

does he

a) ignore the tablet and go with his inner desires and be true to himself
b) take the tablet and dispense with any same sex attractions and stay with his wife

equally obviously the same applies for a woman

Why are you even trying to think you can speak for my brother in law?

He always was gay and tried to hide this because society did not except him

Please do not make claims, that you do not know the first thing about gelico

Thank you

I don't approve of gay people marrying someone of the opposite sex and messing their life up. If you can't admit being gay, at least don't lie to someone who trusts you.

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't approve of gay people marrying someone of the opposite sex and messing their life up. If you can't admit being gay, at least don't lie to someone who trusts you.

Well that happened because of people like you rags in the past not accepting homosexual people into society. They had to hide who they were in society

phildidge wrote:

gelico wrote:


the only example i could think of really would be like didge's brother in law.  someone who comes to the realisation late in life - people can be confused/in denial right into late in their lives.

so mr random wakes one morning and is true to his own feelings.  he adores his wife and child but knows that he has sexual attractions to that guy in the gym.

he also knows that there is a 'tablet' available that could 'cure' these attractions and be done with them

does he

a) ignore the tablet and go with his inner desires and be true to himself
b) take the tablet and dispense with any same sex attractions and stay with his wife

equally obviously the same applies for a woman

Why are you even trying to think you can speak for my brother in law?

He always was gay and tried to hide this because society did not except him

Please do not make claims, that you do not know the first thing about gelico

Thank you

i am not speaking for your brother in law, nor even attempting to. just using his situation as an example

society did not accept him? he obviously didn't try to find out he prefered to get married and have kids

so my point was anyone in that same position might well choose to take some kind of cure rather than destroy their marriage and devastate their family life

should they be able to have a choice

obviously on the assumption that there was in fact a fully functional and proven to work cure which we know there actually isn't

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't approve of gay people marrying someone of the opposite sex and messing their life up. If you can't admit being gay, at least don't lie to someone who trusts you.

That’s not entirely fair. Lots of gay people either didn’t wholly accept it or else thought it might have just been a phase or a little bit of “what they fancy” every so often.
Society made them think it was wrong so they buried it.