Ann Widdecombe

by Andy Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:17 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://news.sky.com/story/ann-widdecombe-science-may-produce-an-answer-to-homosexuality-11733559

Not just ugly, but impossibly stupid, homophobic, racist, has become a right wing extremist and appears as mad as a bag of frogs.
I wonder whether she spread for Nigel?
It's clear to see why he recruited her.
I cannot understand why she is so anti gay, when no bloke in his right mind would want to impale her.

by eddie Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:20 pm

gelico wrote:
eddie wrote:*custard.

Oooh, speaking of custard, I had bananas and custard the other day! What a flashback to my childhood. Tasty.

it should be pineapple chunks with custard

Nooooo! Pineapple chunks should be eaten alone! Bananas and custard rock. Cool

by JulesV Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:27 pm

phildidge wrote: …. one of the nicest posters here,

I like how people are saying that Cass is one of the nicest people on here - cos it's so true.
I enjoy posting alongside such a breath of fresh air. cheers

by Guest Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:35 pm

Jules wrote:
phildidge wrote: …. one of the nicest posters here,

I like how people are saying that Cass is one of the nicest people on here - cos it's so true.
I enjoy posting alongside such a breath of fresh air.

Indeed and for people to attack her, was nothing short of a poor deflection

by JulesV Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:35 pm

I want to say a bit more.

I don't just judge posters on whether they are RW or LW. I judge them on many factors including their ability to make logical arguments and their sense of humour.

Every single RW poster here has received green awards from me, fwiw.
In appreciations of common sense posts or humorous posts they've made.

Or compassionate posts. (Eg I quietly gave Lord Moletrousers a greenie a few months ago -without mentioning it to him - for wishing a member safe recovery from heart surgery.

People's political leanings don't matter at all to me - unless of course they say something really OTT or extreme.
I take as I find.

by eddie Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:43 pm

Jules wrote:I want to say a bit more.

I don't just judge posters on whether they are RW or LW. I judge them on many factors including their ability to make logical arguments and their sense of humour.

Every single RW poster here has received green awards from me, fwiw.
In appreciations of common sense posts or humorous posts they've made.

Or compassionate posts. (Eg I quietly gave Lord Moletrousers a greenie a few months ago -without mentioning it to him - for wishing a member safe recovery from heart surgery.

People's political leanings don't matter at all to me - unless of course they say something really OTT or extreme.
I take as I find.

Totally agree.

by Cass Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:22 am

I appreciate the nice things said about me by some, so Cheers. I appreciate it a lot. Especially since the last few days have been hectic and emotional.

Nicko, I didn’t suggest you leave. I have seen you get a bit angry on certain posts lately and you know what? I was genuinely worried that you may affect your health which you yourself have mentioned as not being good. That’s why I took a long break from here. It was pissing me off and boring and I had some more important things in real life to deal with. And I thought maybe it would benefit you in the same way. That is all. Nothing more, nothing less despite what other posters may say. I am me here, just like in real life and a few posters here would tell you that.

I also do not like being called a raving or loony lefty because I am quite clearly not one. I gave my opinion on the topic in question in a polite and civilized manner and you came out guns blazing and I defended my point of view. I won’t apologize because I was not suggesting what you thought I was. Sometimes it’s hard to convey emotion or intent on a forum.

You can believe me or not, it’s up to you, so that’s all I am going to say on this topic.

I do have a great book recommendation for you. Say Nothing by Patrick Radden Keene. Excellent account of Jean McConville, the mother who was kidnapped in Northern Ireland and years later the body was finally found.

Hope you have a good rest of your week x

by nicko Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:46 am

"you might find another forum better for you" ,
Who said that ?
I really don't care, I'm finished here anyway !

by Andy Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:07 am

nicko wrote: "you might find another forum better for you" ,
Who said that ?
I really don't care, I'm finished here anyway !

by Andy Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:09 am

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:11 am

nicko wrote: "you might find another forum better for you" ,
Who said that ?
I really don't care, I'm finished here anyway !

Too many raving lefties? Laughing

I really don't know why Cass had a go at you because you clearly weren't referring to her anyway when you mentioned raving lefties. In any case, it's hardly a terrible insult.

by Andy Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:11 am

And before anyone gets on their high horse and looks to criticise, my 2 videos are meant to be funny.

by Andy Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:39 am

Time for a light hearted little limerick.

Old Nicko comes over as hard
Defending a woman made up of lard
AS an MP and at dancing
Her talents were not too entrancing
And they met their match with the Bard.

by nicko Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:35 am

Good Andy, but you have done better Laughing

by Andy Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:03 am

Early morning, written whilst eating my fried eggs on toast - with a wine hangover!

by gelico Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:27 pm

nicko wrote: "you might find another forum better for you" ,
Who said that ?
I really don't care, I'm finished here anyway !

yes, nicko, because as she said, you were sounding stressed and pissed off and like you weren't enjoying it on here that's all. i'm sure you've known cass long enough to know that she would never just turn on you and be spiteful for the hell of it because that's not who she is. she was being genuine and defending herself against the label of raving loony leftie

you're staying and that's an end to it

by Syl Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:32 pm

gelico wrote:
nicko wrote: "you might find another forum better for you" ,
Who said that ?
I really don't care, I'm finished here anyway !

yes, nicko, because as she said, you were sounding stressed and pissed off and like you weren't enjoying it on here that's all. i'm sure you've known cass long enough to know that she would never just turn on you and be spiteful for the hell of it because that's not who she is. she was being genuine and defending herself against the label of raving loony leftie

you're staying and that's an end to it

You tell him Gels.

They are both lovely posters and both bring something special to the forum.

by Andy Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:34 pm

Nick won't leave.
He looks forward to my next hilarious limericks too much.

by Andy Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:30 pm

Interestingly, the theatre hosting her show has cancelled.
It has called her a vile woman with abhorrent views.
Hard to disagree.

http://news.sky.com/story/ann-widdecombe-show-cancelled-after-homosexuality-comments-11735568

by Syl Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:19 pm

I'm not a fan of Ann Widdicombe, I have already said to me she seems like a dotty old woman, but what has she actually said here that is so homophobic?

She hasn't said she thinks homosexuality is wrong, she said IF homosexuals dont want to be homosexual maybe one day science could discover a way to make them hetrosexual, just as science has now discovered how to change a person physical gender.

Naïve maybe, but not imo homophobic. scratch

"Widdecombe was asked about previous comments she had made regarding gay conversion therapy during an interview on Sky’s Sophy Ridge on Sunday.
She said: “I also pointed out that there was a time when we thought it was quite impossible for men to become women and vice versa and the fact that we now think it is quite impossible for people to switch sexuality doesn’t mean that science may not be able to produce an answer at some stage.”
Asked if she was suggesting there was a possibility that science could find a way to change sexuality, Widdecombe replied: “I don’t know, I don’t know any more other than people once knew whether it was impossible for men to become women.
I don’t know and I’ve never claimed – and this is where I am misrepresented quite often – I’ve never claimed that such science already exists, I’ve never claimed that.
“I’ve merely said that if you simply rule out the possibility of it, you are denying people who are confused about their sexuality or discontented with it, the chances that you do give to people who want to change gender."

by Andy Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:24 pm

Sounds like serious backtracking,.
She has probably been advised that continuing with her homophobic views will kill her chances of becoming an MP after she ceases to be an MEP.

by Syl Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:27 pm

Andy wrote:Sounds like serious backtracking,.
She has probably been advised that continuing with her homophobic views will kill her chances of becoming an MP after she ceases to be an MEP.

Well if you would like to post any video or newsreel where she has been deliberately homophobic it would be helpful given the way this thread is designed.

by nicko Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:52 pm

There isn't any !

by Andy Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:53 pm

Doesn't matter what I think.
The manager of the theatre she was due to talk at thought so, and cancelled.
And she has faced a media shitstorm.
Don't be lazy Syl, Type Widdecombe and Homophobic comments into Google.
I instantly found over 20 videos .
I have done the hard work for you.

by Syl Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:01 pm

Andy wrote:Doesn't matter what I think.
The manager of the theatre she was due to talk at thought so, and cancelled.
And she has faced a media shitstorm.
Don't be lazy Syl, Type Widdecombe and Homophobic comments into Google.
I instantly found over 20 videos .
I have done the hard work for you.

You started the thread Andy, the least you could do is back up your comments with actual proof.
The manager of the theatre seems to have interpreted her comments, IF, as it seems he was referring to the ones I quoted, in a rather biased way.

by Andy Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:09 pm

How many do you want, Lazybones.
I will post the first to you.from the list.
I will leave the rest to you.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ann-widdecombe-gay-cure-science-conversion-therapy-lgbt-a8941071.html

by Syl Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:18 pm

Andy wrote:How many do you want, Lazybones.
I will post the first to you.from the list.
I will leave the rest to you.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ann-widdecombe-gay-cure-science-conversion-therapy-lgbt-a8941071.html

She is talking about people who are homosexual and are unhappy with being so. She isn't saying homosexuality is wrong.
She is also saying the science to change peoples sexuality has not yet been yet been invented, (so she is certainly not advocating conversion therapy)
She is (in her way) being compassionate not discriminating.

by Guest Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:39 pm

Syl wrote:
Andy wrote:How many do you want, Lazybones.
I will post the first to you.from the list.
I will leave the rest to you.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ann-widdecombe-gay-cure-science-conversion-therapy-lgbt-a8941071.html

She is talking about people who are homosexual and are unhappy with being so. She isn't saying homosexuality is wrong.
She is also saying the science to change peoples sexuality has not yet been yet been invented, (so she is certainly not advocating conversion therapy)
She is (in her way) being compassionate not discriminating.

She is advocating conversion therapy, which is going to be banned in the uk and rightly so
There is such a thing as gender dysphoria, not sexual dysphoria, but even people with gender dysphoria go through a long process. To help devleope who they are and understand their gender identity.

She has openly spoken out against homosexuality, being as she is religious and even debated the position of the Church against Stephen Fry and Christopher hitchins. So to say that sicence may one day find a view to basically cure. homosexuality. Is claiming it is some how wrong.

Noboby thinks its wrong to be woman or a man, which is what most transgender people believe they are, but born into the wrong body
There is biological bases for why people are homosexual and if people are confused over this, you do what has always been done and provide support and clinical help if need be

by Vintage Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:55 pm

Surely, even if the woman believes homosexuality is wrong she's entitled to believe it and to express her feelings, as distasteful as it might be to others, unless we've suddenly become raving fascists.
Right of reply is everyone's right of course and her views can be challenged but her appearance and romantic status should have nothing to do with it. It's not showing much example that people advocating against any phobia can be as unpleasant or even worse than some of the people who are phobic. Not everyone is going to change their beliefs or attitudes however much you'd want them to.

by Andy Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:03 pm

Of course she is entitled to express her opinions.
Most will probably find them abhorrent, which will count against her if Nigel wants her as a Brexit MP.

by Guest Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:05 pm

Vintage wrote:Surely, even if the woman believes homosexuality is wrong she's entitled to believe it and to express her feelings, as distasteful as it might be to others, unless we've suddenly become raving fascists.
Right of reply is everyone's right of course and her views can be challenged but her appearance and romantic status should have nothing to do with it. It's not showing much example that people advocating against any phobia can be as unpleasant or even worse than some of the people who are phobic. Not everyone is going to change their beliefs or attitudes however much you'd want them to.

I dont think anyone has said she is not entittled to her views. Which also mean people are also entittled to call her out on said poor views. It has to work both ways, right?
I agree her appearance and romantic status has nothing to do with this and is just as bigoted.

Also, the other day the World Health Organisation has ruled that Gernder Dysphoria is no longer going to be classed as a mental illness and redefined as Gender Incongruence.

https://healix.com/wp-content/uploads/White_Papers/Gender-incongruence-white-paper.pdf.

Though i see probllems ahead with the above and some of data presented was missleading to say the least

by Guest Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:13 pm

I also think there is a form of converion therapy already in play. Where fore example a femine gay boy is made to think they are trapped in the wrong body. When hey are simple gay and femine. A sub-set of Trans are promoting a Transgender gender ideology. Whiich is pushing people who are confused, who may simple be gay and like any belief system. Have people make them believe they are suffering from gender dysphoria. Instead of being open to the possibility that person is gay. They then attend clinics and there condition is affirmed. If pushed onto puberty blockers before they go through puberty. This has an effect, to then go onto hormone treatment and eventually a sex change. They thus then become basically hetrosexual trans women. This is why the new methods to treat gender dysphoria, by confirming based off soely what the patient thinks. When countless studies show around 80% of people who suffered with Gernder Dyshoria later on desist from this and all these have not been on puberty blockers. Is problematic to say the least. What is happenning and can see many future law suits within the next couple of decades. They should revert to the previous method of years of help and support aand only to later use medication, when that person is in their late teens.

by JulesV Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:21 pm

Vintage wrote:Surely, even if the woman believes homosexuality is wrong she's entitled to believe it and to express her feelings, as distasteful as it might be to others, unless we've suddenly become raving fascists.
Right of reply is everyone's right of course and her views can be challenged but her appearance and romantic status should have nothing to do with it. It's not showing much example that people advocating against any phobia can be as unpleasant or even worse than some of the people who are phobic. Not everyone is going to change their beliefs or attitudes however much you'd want them to.

"We" ??

Who is this "we" ? Ann Widdecombe - Page 3 2190311264

Have you forgotten that only ONE poster used strong emotive language and insults? No one else did.
And he was corrected and 'scolded' by several people immediately.
It's not as if posters queued up to agree with the insults.

There is no "we" or "they" involved in this, only one person.

by Vintage Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:25 pm

I was not talking about any specific person on here, not even the ONE poster but in the general public at large.
A good example of expressing a thought in writing that someone else might read and understand in a very different way than intended. Perhaps I expressed myself badly.

by Andy Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:33 pm

I till think she is ugly.. Both in looks and as a person. My opinion, and I am not offended by people challenging me.

by JulesV Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:57 pm

Vintage wrote:I was not talking about any specific person on here, not even the ONE poster but in the general public at large.
A good example of expressing a thought in writing that someone else might read and understand in a very different way than intended. Perhaps I expressed myself badly.

OK. As long as that is made clear. Cos there were comments like "a lot of ugliness in this thread" and "you raving lefties".

The loony lefty comments did seem personally directed at forum members. Hence why Cass for example took it so personally. (sorry to bring her name into this again).

I took it personally as well, but decided to say nowt at the time.

by Guest Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:00 pm

Jules wrote:
Vintage wrote:I was not talking about any specific person on here, not even the ONE poster but in the general public at large.
A good example of expressing a thought in writing that someone else might read and understand in a very different way than intended. Perhaps I expressed myself badly.

OK. As long as that is made clear. Cos there were comments like "a lot of ugliness in this thread" and "you raving lefties".

The loony lefty comments did seem personally directed at forum members. Hence why Cass for example took it so personally. (sorry to bring her name into this again).

I took it personally as well, but decided to say nowt at the time.

Hi Jules

To be fair, you would be hard pressed to find Vintage saying anything nasty. She certainly did not do so here.

by JulesV Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:06 pm

Vintage wrote:Surely, even if the woman believes homosexuality is wrong she's entitled to believe it and to express her feelings, as distasteful as it might be to others, unless we've suddenly become raving fascists.
Right of reply is everyone's right of course and her views can be challenged but her appearance and romantic status should have nothing to do with it. It's not showing much example that people advocating against any phobia can be as unpleasant or even worse than some of the people who are phobic.

Not everyone is going to change their beliefs or attitudes however much you'd want them to.

Ann should heed those words herself! Smile

A huge amount of effort & expense has gone into making people with alternative sexualities or genders not feel different/alienated/ostracised/ from society.... and if influential public speakers like Ann don't temper their words, they are just undermining all that work.

She is out, canvassing for votes, so you'd expect her to be promising more jobs, better health, and other positive things ........ but instead, she's on her homosexual soapbox yet again.

Which begs the question .... who exactly was she hoping to attract to the Brexit party with that particular topic of conversation?? Hmmm. Suspect

by JulesV Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:24 pm

phildidge wrote:
Jules wrote:

OK. As long as that is made clear. Cos there were comments like "a lot of ugliness in this thread" and "you raving lefties".

The loony lefty comments did seem personally directed at forum members. Hence why Cass for example took it so personally. (sorry to bring her name into this again).

I took it personally as well, but decided to say nowt at the time.

Hi Jules

To be fair, you would be hard pressed to find Vintage saying anything nasty. She certainly did not do so here.

Yes I already accept that her own comments were not directed at members - after she clarified it.

There is one final point I'd like to make. Vintage said that Ann's romantic life should not have been brought in. Correct. But this topic is specifically about sexual attraction. It's not about, say, climate change or world economics. So - rightly or wrongly - her sexual desirability will come under scrutiny. Hence why Andy, for example, mentioned it. Hey ho.

by Andy Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:32 pm

Thanks Jules.
Could it be she is a frustrated woman, an elderly spinster who by her own admission has lead a loveless life?
Very few I would imagine don't miss the close physical side of a relationship, be it straight or gay.
She committed herself to her religion and her political career, nowt wrong with that, but by doing that , has she lost sight of her humanity?

by JulesV Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:36 pm

Andy wrote:Thanks Jules.
Could it be she is a frustrated woman, an elderly spinster who by her own admission has lead a loveless life?
Very few I would imagine don't miss the close physical side of a relationship, be it straight or gay.
She committed herself to her religion and her political career, nowt wrong with that, but by doing that , has she lost sight of her humanity?

You're welcome Andy. Thanks for not taking offence at my occasional criticsm. Makes my life a bit easier. Smile

by Vintage Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:42 pm

Thanks Didge.
There are people in all societies who have outmoded ideas about all sorts of things, some are vocal about it and no arguments or persuasion will change their opinion. If she truly believes as she indicates what can you do?

by Guest Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:43 pm

Jules wrote:
phildidge wrote:

Hi Jules

To be fair, you would be hard pressed to find Vintage saying anything nasty. She certainly did not do so here.

Yes I already accept that her own comments were not directed at members - after she clarified it.

There is one final point I'd like to make. Vintage said that Ann's romantic life should not have been brought in. Correct. But this topic is specifically about sexual attraction. It's not about, say, climate change or world economics. So - rightly or wrongly - her sexual desirability will come under scrutiny. Hence why Andy, for example, mentioned it. Hey ho.

It has nothing to do with this what so ever. As that is her personal relationship. Its simple a poor attack on the individual as a person. To say hetrosexuality should come under scrutiny is as bad as dfoing so of homosexuality.
Two wrongs do not make a right

by Guest Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:45 pm

Vintage wrote:Thanks Didge.
There are people in all societies who have outmoded ideas about all sorts of things, some are vocal about it and no arguments or persuasion will change their opinion. If she truly believes as she indicates what can you do?

No worries Vintage and what should be done. Is to challenge said views and reason why they are poor and wrong to say.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:49 pm

Some gay people do undertake this conversion therapy, do they not? Why would they do that if they were happy being gay?

by Guest Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Some gay people do undertake this conversion therapy, do they not? Why would they do that if they were happy being gay?

Well there is a very simple answer for that and espcially so in the US. Where they are not accepted by theeir Christian families and ostracised. Hence why some will feel like they want to be accepted and try poor unscientifc claims to cure homosexuality. Some become desperate. Does it mean that conversion therapy has worked.??

If all of society accepted gay people. There would not be anyone feeling any sort of need to have conversion therapy

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:57 pm

Jules wrote:
Vintage wrote:Surely, even if the woman believes homosexuality is wrong she's entitled to believe it and to express her feelings, as distasteful as it might be to others, unless we've suddenly become raving fascists.
Right of reply is everyone's right of course and her views can be challenged but her appearance and romantic status should have nothing to do with it. It's not showing much example that people advocating against any phobia can be as unpleasant or even worse than some of the people who are phobic.

Not everyone is going to change their beliefs or attitudes however much you'd want them to.

Ann should heed those words herself! A huge amount of effort & expense has gone into making people with alternative sexualities or genders not feel different/alienated/ostracised/ from society.... and if influential public speakers like Ann don't temper their words, they are just undermining all that work.

She is out, canvassing for votes, so you'd expect her to be promising more jobs, better health, and other positive things ........ but instead, she's on her homosexual soapbox yet again.

Which begs the question .... who exactly was she hoping to attract to the Brexit party with that particular topic of conversation?? Hmmm.

She was asked about her views in an interview.

by JulesV Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:22 pm

Trapped then.
Stitched up by her political enemies like a ...… well, … kipper!
She walked right into that one.

by Vintage Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:26 pm

Not really, if she was asked her views and was honest she would answer wouldn't she.

by JulesV Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:34 pm

And her ''honest" views were pounced on, predictably.
Why not?
How else should politicians be judged, if not by their views?

by Syl Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:18 am

phildidge wrote:
Syl wrote:

She is talking about people who are homosexual and are unhappy with being so. She isn't saying homosexuality is wrong.
She is also saying the science to change peoples sexuality has not yet been yet been invented, (so she is certainly not advocating conversion therapy)
She is (in her way) being compassionate not discriminating.

She is advocating conversion therapy, which is going to be banned in the uk and rightly so
There is such a thing as gender dysphoria, not sexual dysphoria, but even people with gender dysphoria go through a long process. To help devleope who they are and understand their gender identity.

She has openly spoken out against homosexuality, being as she is religious and even debated the position of the Church against Stephen Fry and Christopher hitchins. So to say that sicence may one day find a view to basically cure. homosexuality. Is claiming it is some how wrong.

Noboby thinks its wrong to be woman or a man, which is what most transgender people believe they are, but born into the wrong body
There is biological bases for why people are homosexual and if people are confused over this, you do what has always been done and provide support and clinical help if need be

She was not advocating conversion therapy at all. She has said and repeated that such science may exist in the future to help homosexuals who dont want to be gay.

Her words may be naive , but hardly homophobic.

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