Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.

First topic message reminder :

More political shenanigans and monoevering than the US election.
No deal, this deal, any deal is going to cause pain.
May has to go, there HAS to be another General Election, and another referendum.
Interesting that a few big guns are keeping quiet.

Are all Brexiteers as stupid as Raab and Nadine Dorries?
Her latest gem - May's deal will leave us with no MEP's

.Check out @newschambers’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1063844000766021632?s=09

I'll give you just one example of the EU's stupid rules.
CAP , paying farmers NOT to produce food. Our Farmers I mean. So as not to hit French Farmers with lower prices for their food we are not allowed to produce too much, and farmers are PAID to sit on there arses and let Fields lie fallow, I know this for a fact, as in my Shooting days I spoke to many farmers . The most glaring example of this folly is Michael Heseltine , he is paid , by the Eu £90,000 a year to produce NOTHING! No wonder he is one of the most outspoken remainers !

nicko wrote:Les,  i'm a lot older than you, I know what this country was like when British people made rules for British people.  Unlike you I live in Britain  !

Age has nothing to do with it nicko. There are plenty of people older than me who agree with me. And while I may not live in Britain, it may come as a surprise to know I have family and friends who do, and many of them (not all, by far) agree with me too. And I have an interest in things working out for them (as well as me when/if I one day decide to return).

PS: I studied, and continue to study, history, so I know there were plenty of awful periods of economic difficulties before the formation of the EU. Take off the nostalgia goggles

Can I have your comment on the CAP piece I posted ?
By the way I forgot to mention the Wine Lakes and the Cheese Mountain that they had to give away !
[bit before your time I suspect]

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


You are so wrong over all of this...!


It is the pro EU politicians who have been lying to us over the past 40 years who are to blame!!!


They have continually told us it's just a simple trade arrangement while continually signing us up into a federal dictatorship and giving away more and more of our democratic sovereignty!!!


And do you really think that the British people have only recently been angry about this???


If politicians had been honest about what they've been doing all these years, with all their new EU treaties... And the British people had actually been asked to give consent for any of it along the way... then it would have never got off the ground in the first place!!!


And we wouldn't now be trying to get out of something that we have never agreed to be in, and would never have agreed to be in had we been told the truth and given the choice at every stage of its development!!!


The EU has been imposed on us by a succession of complete lies throughout the last 40 years!!!


And the British people have never agreed to any of it!!!

Most polls now put Remaining ahead, so I guess knowing the choices we now have most people disagree with you.

Anyways Tommy, calm down, you're going to break you 1 key on the keyboard at this rate

What happens next is really up in the air. I'm prepared for us to leave, but I'd be happier remaining. Whatever happens, happens. Sadly you seem to be putting all your eggs in the No Deal basket...

Polls are bullshit... And we have had 2 years of full blown lies an spin from remainers all over the media... this is all part of the orchestrated plan to try to reverse the decision to leave...!


It is quite simple... we voted to restore our democracy... now the only thing that needs to be sorted out is, do we trade with the rest of the EU under WTO rules or do we agree some lower reciprocal tariffs to trade under?

Can't you see that all the rest of the stuff going on is just complete waffle and fearmongering to put people off leaving at all?

And can't you see that May has been a remainer all along, she had David Davis out there trying to sort out a proper brexit, but all the time she had another secret deal going on whereby we don't actually leave at all...?

And she has left it till last minute to now pull this out of her bag, and now tries to force it through quick before anyone really gets to see what's in the detail?


It's a huge stitch up... And it isn't leaving the EU at all!!!

Leave means leave!!!

And we need to leave with no deal and then agree lower tariffs!!!


Look at Canada... they now have a free trade deal  with the EU... they pay in nothing and they don't have any of their laws/rules dictated to them by the EU...  they dont have the lunacy of free movementAnd they don't have to give away any of their fishing waters... And they don't get controlled by the European courts...


Why can't we have the same sort of arrangement?

Eilzel wrote:

nicko wrote:As I remember, we voted to join as a trading partner and a trading partner full stop.  No mention of  unelected bullies telling us British what we can and can't do .   Am I correct ?

You see, hyperbolic lines like 'unelected bullies' telling us what to do, is exactly why we have ended up in this mess. It is always made to sound so hideously orchestrated, as if all of Europe is out to get the UK in particular. You want the reason people are divided, it is partly due to lines like that being peddled endlessly by the tabloid press.

You can talk... all we hear is the hysterical hyperbole like "crashing out", "going over the cliff edge" and how "it'll be a disaster" etc....


All complete bollocks and just part of project fear!!!

nicko wrote:I'll give you just one example of the EU's stupid rules.
CAP , paying farmers NOT to produce food. Our Farmers I mean. So as not to hit French Farmers with lower prices for their food we are not allowed to produce too much, and farmers are PAID to sit on there arses and let Fields lie fallow, I know this for a fact, as in my Shooting days I spoke to many farmers . The most glaring example of this folly is Michael Heseltine , he is paid , by the Eu £90,000 a year to produce NOTHING! No wonder he is one of the most outspoken remainers !

Exactly Nicko!!!

Thor wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

You see, hyperbolic lines like 'unelected bullies' telling us what to do, is exactly why we have ended up in this mess. It is always made to sound so hideously orchestrated, as if all of Europe is out to get the UK in particular. You want the reason people are divided, it is partly due to lines like that being peddled endlessly by the tabloid press.

Really?

We ended up in the mess, because elected leaders took us into a system, without the backing of the people

To the point people got fed up, that they had no real say in how their country should be run and that it is being run by people not elected by the people

And you think people raising this issue, is what caused this?

Seriously?

The reason people are divided is simple this. Nobody is actually listening to each other

Green for that post... but I disagree with your last point...


The country is always divided over something... look at every election we ever had...


The remoaners are just playing up this divide... a lefty trick... but think about it... if remain had won, they would not be making these claims, you would hear them saying how the vote had settled things and how we are now to respect the will of the people and to unite behind it etc...

Tommy Monk wrote:

nicko wrote:I'll give you just one example of the EU's stupid rules.
CAP ,  paying farmers NOT to produce food. Our Farmers I mean.  So as not to hit French Farmers with lower prices for their food we are not allowed to produce too much, and farmers are PAID to sit on there arses and let Fields lie fallow, I know this for a fact, as in my Shooting days I spoke to many farmers .  The most glaring example of this folly is Michael Heseltine ,  he is paid , by the Eu £90,000 a year to produce NOTHING!   No wonder he is one of the most outspoken remainers !

Exactly Nicko!!!

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/958161/lord-heseltine-duke-of-wellington-brexit-blocker-90000-pounds-EU-land-subsidies

Les has still not replied to this !

Angry Andy wrote:Are all Brexiteers as stupid as Raab and Nadine Dorries?
Her latest gem - May's deal will leave us with no MEP's

.Check out @newschambers’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1063844000766021632?s=09

Perhaps had we been permitted to hear the original question and Dorries' full answer (which, incidentally, is factually correct and makes perfect sense as it affects the current negotiations) rather than an obviously deliberately edited clip, your eagerness to promulgate Richard Chambers' pretty crude attempt to ridicule an MP he is known to dislike might reasonably be questioned.

70% of labour constituencies voted to leave the EU...


So why are their mps trying to make us remain!!!???

When we leave we will not need any MEP's----will we ?

nicko wrote:When we leave we will not need any MEP's----will we ?

I hope they get it sorted soon, it's all getting a bit tedious now.

They are dragging it out on purpose so they can carry on bombarding us with project fear, so they can then start arguing that loads of leavers have changed their minds, and then we need another referendum to get the "right answer"...


It's so bloody obvious what they're up to... And it stinks!!!


And if they think they can get away with it, then they are very very wrong!!!


17.5 million people will be voting UKIP next election!!!

nicko wrote:Les has still not replied to this !

Nicko, I've never said the EU is perfect or not in need of reform. The CAP problem you mention is just one example of something the EU has backwards; the fisheries problem is another.

Leaving, however, will only create more problems. My belief is the UK should remain in the EU and with a good government could actually be there to help improve it.

Les, you are deluded if you really think that...!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:
They are dragging it out on purpose so they can carry on bombarding us with project fear, so they can then start arguing that loads of leavers have changed their minds, and then we need another referendum to get the "right answer"...


It's so bloody obvious what they're up to... And it stinks!!!


And if they think they can get away with it, then they are very very wrong!!!


17.5 million people will be voting UKIP next election!!!

The Irish and Dutch certainly have experience of that. All that we have not so far seen are the blatant bribes.

She said no no no...!!!


The British people never said yes to any of it...!!!


So why are we now trying to get out of all the things we never agreed to be part of...!!!???