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About Us & RulesBrexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
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Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Andy Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:45 am
More political shenanigans and monoevering than the US election.
No deal, this deal, any deal is going to cause pain.
May has to go, there HAS to be another General Election, and another referendum.
Interesting that a few big guns are keeping quiet.
No deal, this deal, any deal is going to cause pain.
May has to go, there HAS to be another General Election, and another referendum.
Interesting that a few big guns are keeping quiet.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by HoratioTarr Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:14 am
It certainly is a shambles.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Andy Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:32 am
The next 4 hours will possibly be the most important and crucial 4 hours politically in a generation.
There will be no winners.
Particularly for business and the general public.
My take .. Brexiteers will reject the deal. May will resign this afternoon as her position will be untenable.
PMQ's might be lively.
There will be no winners.
Particularly for business and the general public.
My take .. Brexiteers will reject the deal. May will resign this afternoon as her position will be untenable.
PMQ's might be lively.
Last edited by Angry Andy on Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by HoratioTarr Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:36 am
Angry Andy wrote:The next 4 hours will possibly be the most important and crucial 4 hours politically in a generation.
There will be no winners.
Particularly for business and the general public.
At times like this a country needs a strong, resolute leader TM is none of those things. She'd have been the type to 'negotiate a deal' with Hitler had she been in charge in WW2. She's not fit to lead a fucking egg and spoon race.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Andy Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:45 am
We finally lagree HT, though not in circumstances I wanted.
The Conservatives are split like at no other time..
If Corbyn reins in his wets, or he aligns himself to those in his party who are moderate and centrist, we could see an annihilation of the Tories if an election is called.
Of course, there remains the faint possibility of a new, centrist party forming, as funding is already in place.
Which is my preferred. option.
Interesting times.
The Conservatives are split like at no other time..
If Corbyn reins in his wets, or he aligns himself to those in his party who are moderate and centrist, we could see an annihilation of the Tories if an election is called.
Of course, there remains the faint possibility of a new, centrist party forming, as funding is already in place.
Which is my preferred. option.
Interesting times.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by 'Wolfie Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:29 pm
I think you people will find that you are stuck with the results of the referendum...
I don't see how they could simply call the results null and void, and demand a new poll..
As for the businesses themselves, they're probably all working at double pace to find new markets, and new channels to export through, as well as maintaining imports into their businesses.
I've seen British companies stepping up their advertising, and introducing new products lines, into the local market here in recent months -- if they are stepping up efforts in Oz and NZ, they're probably doing a lot more in larger potential markets like North America and across Asia ?
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Tommy Monk Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:42 pm
The EU is a corrupt dictatorship, and we don't want or need to be any part of it.
It is the remoaners who have been frustrating the process of leaving the EU at every opportunity they can.
And... the proposed deal that TM has brought us, may be shit for the UK... but it is shit cos it is the best deal that the shitty EU is prepared to offer us... so blame the EU!!!
WE ARE BETTER OFF WITH NO DEAL!!!
LETS NOT GIVE THEM 40 BILLION MORE MONEY, LETS NOT STAY IN SOME BULLSHIT STRAITJACKET CUSTONS UNION, WE CAN EASIKY JUST TRADE WITH THE EU UNDER WTO RULES!!!
It is the remoaners who have been frustrating the process of leaving the EU at every opportunity they can.
And... the proposed deal that TM has brought us, may be shit for the UK... but it is shit cos it is the best deal that the shitty EU is prepared to offer us... so blame the EU!!!
WE ARE BETTER OFF WITH NO DEAL!!!
LETS NOT GIVE THEM 40 BILLION MORE MONEY, LETS NOT STAY IN SOME BULLSHIT STRAITJACKET CUSTONS UNION, WE CAN EASIKY JUST TRADE WITH THE EU UNDER WTO RULES!!!
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Fred Moletrousers Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:05 pm
It was always pretty clear to me (and I have said so here often enough) that from the start Barnier's brief was to be as uncooperative and, indeed, as obstructive as possible in negotiations with the UK pour encourager les autres.
The Commissioners, none of whom, of course, have had to face the inconvenience of any form of democratic election in order to secure their prestigious, immensely powerful and hugely profitable positions, were well aware not only of the growing resentment in several parts of Europe at their grandiose plans for the creation of a de facto United States of Europe complete with its own diplomatic corps and military structure but also their penchant for acting as a virtual collective dictatorship.
I simply cannot accept the principle that laws passed by the democratically elected parliament and government of a sovereign nation can be nullified and superseded by a court comprising judges (including, in the past, members who were not even legally qualified) acting as the enforcer to a bureaucratic dictatorship...and that is primarily why I voted for Brexit.
The great pity is that our negotiations with Barnier - who himself is a bureaucrat and not a politician - seem to have been conducted for the most part in such an unenthusiastic, apathetic and largely ineffectual manner, probably because so many ministers as well as MPs of all parties were, and probably still are no matter what they say in public, Remainers at heart.
The Commissioners, none of whom, of course, have had to face the inconvenience of any form of democratic election in order to secure their prestigious, immensely powerful and hugely profitable positions, were well aware not only of the growing resentment in several parts of Europe at their grandiose plans for the creation of a de facto United States of Europe complete with its own diplomatic corps and military structure but also their penchant for acting as a virtual collective dictatorship.
I simply cannot accept the principle that laws passed by the democratically elected parliament and government of a sovereign nation can be nullified and superseded by a court comprising judges (including, in the past, members who were not even legally qualified) acting as the enforcer to a bureaucratic dictatorship...and that is primarily why I voted for Brexit.
The great pity is that our negotiations with Barnier - who himself is a bureaucrat and not a politician - seem to have been conducted for the most part in such an unenthusiastic, apathetic and largely ineffectual manner, probably because so many ministers as well as MPs of all parties were, and probably still are no matter what they say in public, Remainers at heart.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Vintage Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:05 pm
It might have helped if politicians accepted the vote and actually got together to sort something out before negotiations started and put up a united front to the EU, who as Fred said was never going to make it even remotely easy. Barnier and the others must be delighted at the discord in Britain.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by veya_victaous Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:34 pm
you guys are deluded
on what Planet can the UK stand up to the EU?
it's a cluster fuck because people voted for something based on an Absolutely Delusional Proposition that the UK is in a Position to Negotiate on anything near equal terms.
on what Planet can the UK stand up to the EU?
it's a cluster fuck because people voted for something based on an Absolutely Delusional Proposition that the UK is in a Position to Negotiate on anything near equal terms.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Tommy Monk Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:30 pm
We are the 5th largest economy in the world!!!
The EU is a corrupt federal dictatorship!!!
We want our democracy back!!!
And like any dictatorship, the EU is very reluctant to let go of their control over us!!!
No deal is better than a bad deal... And the proposed deal is the worst possible by long way!!!
The EU is a corrupt federal dictatorship!!!
We want our democracy back!!!
And like any dictatorship, the EU is very reluctant to let go of their control over us!!!
No deal is better than a bad deal... And the proposed deal is the worst possible by long way!!!
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by veya_victaous Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:59 pm
And the majority of your economy is built on being the 'gateway' for the anglosphere to the Finical sector of Europe... something You've just thrown away
So the major Component of your Economy is Completely reliant on your relationship with Europe
And that is not reciprocated... they can dump you and move on without a 2nd thought.
thus You have no chips to bargain with and have no choice but accept whatever is offered.
And No one gives a fuck what you want you can want it all you want It never help anyone before so I have no fucking Idea why you think it will help you now.... the British Empire Proved that what people want means NOTHING... do not expect a single person outside of the UK to give you even one shred of Sympathy because you Now have to deal with the reality EVERYONE else has always had to deal with Largely thanks to the UK!!!
You are not a world Power anymore.. End of Story
Accept it or let the EU eventually crush and consume you.... whatever, it's not like you get any more choice than the aboriginals in the end result
So the major Component of your Economy is Completely reliant on your relationship with Europe
And that is not reciprocated... they can dump you and move on without a 2nd thought.
thus You have no chips to bargain with and have no choice but accept whatever is offered.
And No one gives a fuck what you want you can want it all you want It never help anyone before so I have no fucking Idea why you think it will help you now.... the British Empire Proved that what people want means NOTHING... do not expect a single person outside of the UK to give you even one shred of Sympathy because you Now have to deal with the reality EVERYONE else has always had to deal with Largely thanks to the UK!!!
You are not a world Power anymore.. End of Story
Accept it or let the EU eventually crush and consume you.... whatever, it's not like you get any more choice than the aboriginals in the end result
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Eilzel Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:25 am
veya_victaous wrote:you guys are deluded
on what Planet can the UK stand up to the EU?
it's a cluster fuck because people voted for something based on an Absolutely Delusional Proposition that the UK is in a Position to Negotiate on anything near equal terms.
Planet 1918. We're still there don't you know
In all seriousness, the UK can remain a major influence in the world...
...if we remain in the EU.
As the second largest economy in the EU (the largest econonic block in the world) the UK maintains prominence and can continue to be the financial powerhouse it is.
Not outside it though. Outside we are at the whims of more powerful and resourceful economic powers (the EU, US, China and pretty soon India, Brazil, Russia etc).
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by nicko Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:40 am
Les, when we leave can we not have Trade agreements with the countries you'v mentioned ?
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Andy Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:24 am
First cabinet resignation at 7am.
The start of a flood.
48 letters of no confidence in May by the weekend.
May will resign.
Then there will be a call for a general election.
The Tories have fucked up.
The start of a flood.
48 letters of no confidence in May by the weekend.
May will resign.
Then there will be a call for a general election.
The Tories have fucked up.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by veya_victaous Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:27 am
nicko wrote:Les, when we leave can we not have Trade agreements with the countries you'v mentioned ?
you can, but they wont be as favorable as the ones you had in the EU
simply based on the fact previously you were all banding together, so bargaining with the power of a half a billion people and the 2nd largest economy on earth.
the EU has given everyone 'take it or leave it' deals, Australia had to accept 100% tariffs on Beef, wool and lamb while removing tariffs from a lot of EU goods.
So Yes you can, but expect to see more of that Aussie Lamb you love so much
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Andy Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:57 am
Raab now resigned.
It is unfolding.
I told you so.
It is unfolding.
I told you so.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by nicko Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:42 am
I don't eat Aussie Lamb, it's all killed by Halal method !
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by HoratioTarr Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:16 am
Fred Moletrousers wrote:It was always pretty clear to me (and I have said so here often enough) that from the start Barnier's brief was to be as uncooperative and, indeed, as obstructive as possible in negotiations with the UK pour encourager les autres.
The Commissioners, none of whom, of course, have had to face the inconvenience of any form of democratic election in order to secure their prestigious, immensely powerful and hugely profitable positions, were well aware not only of the growing resentment in several parts of Europe at their grandiose plans for the creation of a de facto United States of Europe complete with its own diplomatic corps and military structure but also their penchant for acting as a virtual collective dictatorship.
I simply cannot accept the principle that laws passed by the democratically elected parliament and government of a sovereign nation can be nullified and superseded by a court comprising judges (including, in the past, members who were not even legally qualified) acting as the enforcer to a bureaucratic dictatorship...and that is primarily why I voted for Brexit.
The great pity is that our negotiations with Barnier - who himself is a bureaucrat and not a politician - seem to have been conducted for the most part in such an unenthusiastic, apathetic and largely ineffectual manner, probably because so many ministers as well as MPs of all parties were, and probably still are no matter what they say in public, Remainers at heart.
That's it in a nutshell.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by 'Wolfie Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:29 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:
We are the 5th largest economy in the world!!!
The EU is a corrupt federal dictatorship!!!
We want our democracy back!!!
And like any dictatorship, the EU is very reluctant to let go of their control over us!!!
No deal is better than a bad deal... And the proposed deal is the worst possible by long way!!!
Britain is currently "number five"; (if California were an independent country, it would be #5..).
However -- India, Brazil amd Russia are slowly catching up -- and will overtake Britain in the next couple of decades, like it or not..
Britain was #2 in the EU -- nestled between Germany and France in the economic rankings -- now France has been moved up into second place.
Last edited by WhoseYourWolfie on Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Ben Reilly Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:38 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:The EU is a corrupt dictatorship, and we don't want or need to be any part of it.
It is the remoaners who have been frustrating the process of leaving the EU at every opportunity they can.
And... the proposed deal that TM has brought us, may be shit for the UK... but it is shit cos it is the best deal that the shitty EU is prepared to offer us... so blame the EU!!!
WE ARE BETTER OFF WITH NO DEAL!!!
LETS NOT GIVE THEM 40 BILLION MORE MONEY, LETS NOT STAY IN SOME BULLSHIT STRAITJACKET CUSTONS UNION, WE CAN EASIKY JUST TRADE WITH THE EU UNDER WTO RULES!!!
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Andy Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:52 pm
Time for a second referendum.
We voted based on duff information.
The people who don't care about that are probably the same people who castigated Blair for going to war on false Intel.
Can anyone else see the hypocrisy?
We voted based on duff information.
The people who don't care about that are probably the same people who castigated Blair for going to war on false Intel.
Can anyone else see the hypocrisy?
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Tommy Monk Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:52 pm
Interesting to see so many lefties who are against the UK restoring democracy...!
Instead they support a corrupt unelected federal dictatorship...
Hold on... that's no surprise really... that is what every left wing regime is... so no wonder they support it!!!
And... no one cares what any foreigners think about the UK leaving the EU... it is up to the British people... And the British people have voted to leave!!!
Try respecting the will of the British people in running our own country!!
Instead they support a corrupt unelected federal dictatorship...
Hold on... that's no surprise really... that is what every left wing regime is... so no wonder they support it!!!
And... no one cares what any foreigners think about the UK leaving the EU... it is up to the British people... And the British people have voted to leave!!!
Try respecting the will of the British people in running our own country!!
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Andy Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:19 pm
But in your weird world, everyone is left of you.Tommy Monk wrote:Interesting to see so many lefties who are against the UK restoring democracy...!
Instead they support a corrupt unelected federal dictatorship...
Hold on... that's no surprise really... that is what every left wing regime is... so no wonder they support it!!!
And... no one cares what any foreigners think about the UK leaving the EU... it is up to the British people... And the British people have voted to leave!!!
Try respecting the will of the British people in running our own country!!
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Tommy Monk Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:22 pm
Lot of leftys on this thread who are against the UK restoring democracy...
Why is that...?
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Andy Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:49 pm
99.99% of the UK population is left of your politics.Tommy Monk wrote:
Lot of leftys on this thread who are against the UK restoring democracy...
Why is that...?
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Tommy Monk Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:01 pm
Andy, les, veya, Ben... all lefty and all against the UK restoring democracy...
Why is it that the leftys are against the UK restoring democracy, but instead in favour of a corrupt unelected federal dictatorship barking the orders at a subordinate UK...?
Why is it that the leftys are against the UK restoring democracy, but instead in favour of a corrupt unelected federal dictatorship barking the orders at a subordinate UK...?
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by 'Wolfie Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:20 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:
Lot of leftys on this thread who are against the UK restoring democracy...
Why is that...?
"Lots of leftys.." "against the UK restoring democracy.."
You're not only delusional, Tommy, but also getting just a bit paranoid..
Only five left-leaning persons commenting on this thread.
And, as per usual, your definition of "democracy" only means what you believe it should mean -- in this case, if you like it and want it, it's 'democratic' -- if anybody differs with your personal ideals they're automatically proponents of "left wing dictatorships" !!!
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Tommy Monk Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:39 pm
Well wolfboy... you define democracy for us all... And let's see if it compares to what we currently have here in the UK, or if it is more like what we are trying to get restored to the UK...!?
And all the leftys here are supporting the corrupt unelected federal dictatorship, the EU...
And all the leftys here are supporting the corrupt unelected federal dictatorship, the EU...
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Andy Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:26 pm
Please May. Just resign.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by JulesV Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:30 pm
The MPs are resigning en masse cos they can smell blood. The domino effect. Lonely at the top eh, Theresa.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Andy Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:38 pm
And in the latest poll, 54% would now vote to remain.
People's choice now.
https://news.sky.com/story/majority-of-brits-now-against-brexit-and-back-second-eu-referendum-sky-data-poll-11555078
People's choice now.
https://news.sky.com/story/majority-of-brits-now-against-brexit-and-back-second-eu-referendum-sky-data-poll-11555078
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Tommy Monk Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:46 pm
We've already had the only real poll that counts... And the British people voted to leave, and to restore our democracy!!!
Time to get on with it!!!!!!!
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Vintage Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:01 pm
If we have another 'peoples' vote, even though that was what we had, and the majority vote to leave again, do we have another and another until people vote to stay or best of five perhaps?
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Eilzel Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:51 am
The vote result was 52/48.
Farage had said before that if Brexit lost (as he expected it would, at the time) by a narrow margin, that there would be 'unfinished business'.
Well that margin was extremely narrow and now looks to have flipped completely having seen lies exposed, 2 years of a falling pound, companies leaving, a government in freefall and atrocious negotiations all round.
A People's Vote, based on FACTS, is now surely the only way to decide on:
-May's deal
-No deal
-Remain
If the result goes the way of Brexit again, no one could argue further.
Farage had said before that if Brexit lost (as he expected it would, at the time) by a narrow margin, that there would be 'unfinished business'.
Well that margin was extremely narrow and now looks to have flipped completely having seen lies exposed, 2 years of a falling pound, companies leaving, a government in freefall and atrocious negotiations all round.
A People's Vote, based on FACTS, is now surely the only way to decide on:
-May's deal
-No deal
-Remain
If the result goes the way of Brexit again, no one could argue further.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by 'Wolfie Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:04 am
I don't reckon the lies, from any 'sides', were the major cause of the Brexit result over there...
A large part of the problem was the absence of "compulsory voting" on the issue..
A lot of potential "remainder" voters seemed to decide that staying in bed was preferable to that pesky ol' voting; (much the same way as Team Trump played the US electorate)..
IF people were required to vote, with the promise of a fine if they failed to take part, they just might pay a bit more attention to just what they were voting for.
Then again, some of the more rusted-on conservatives on here will probably consider the concept of 'compulsory voting' to be yet another infringement against their personal 'rights and freedoms' !
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by veya_victaous Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:14 am
nicko wrote:I don't eat Aussie Lamb, it's all killed by Halal method !
which is cleaner and more humane than the British method
we don't have separate rules for halal, the Australian method is the best method
even the Muslims acknowledge such so we just need direct the 'run' towards mecca and have a little plaque with some prayer
And we changed the runs and got the plaques so we could sell to the Muslim market in other countries ....
Something the UK may need to do now
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by nicko Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:36 am
"cleaner and more humane" ! your off your nut. Cutting throat of an Animal and leaving it to bleed out in agony, that's what you call humane ? Honestly Veya that's the most stupid remark you'v ever made. Have you ever worked in a slaughter house ?
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by veya_victaous Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:38 am
nicko wrote: "cleaner and more humane" ! your off your nut. Cutting throat of an Animal and leaving it to bleed out in agony, that's what you call humane ? Honestly Veya that's the most stupid remark you'v ever made. Have you ever worked in a slaughter house ?
is that what happens ??
No
you just showed how ignorant you are
it's illegal to not stun the animal first.
here they normally use a bolt gun to stun
https://www.animalsaustralia.org/features/halal-slaughter-in-Australia.php
There is some misunderstanding around halal slaughter in Australia. Firstly, Islamic leaders in Australia largely accept the practice of pre-slaughter stunning, which means from an animal welfare perspective, Halal slaughter need not be any different (nor 'crueller') than non-halal slaughter. In fact, when it comes to the way animals are stunned — the same method (referred to as 'reversible stunning') is used for many animals killed for their meat in Australia. We are advised that all of Australia's export abattoirs practice pre-slaughter stunning — and they are all 'halal-certified'.
And Australia is considered one of the cleanest and humane meat producers, we have practices/standards that are stricter/superior to the UK. Australian meats (halal or other) is indisputably cleaner and more humane than British meat.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by HoratioTarr Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:01 am
Angry Andy wrote:Please May. Just resign.
It's the only option really. I don't think Labour would have done any better though, to be honest. Both sides are equally guilty of making promises they can't keep. It's enough to make you despair.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by 'Wolfie Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:36 pm
nicko wrote:
"cleaner and more humane" ! your off your nut. Cutting throat of an Animal and leaving it to bleed out in agony, that's what you call humane ? Honestly Veya that's the most stupid remark you'v ever made. Have you ever worked in a slaughter house ?
Bullshit, nicko...
You obviously don't have a clue..
If only you had the experience to know what you are talking about, you would know for a fact that Aussie and Kiwi slaughterhouse systems are far superior to Britain's third-world efforts -- they have to be to maintain export markets in todays world..
As for Britain's pathetic current livestock industry -- never forget that it was British beef farmers who created "Mad Cow Disease"
Now that Brexit has hit home, it's time for Britain to find a new generation of real world farmers to restore British agriculture back to what it was 30 or 40 years ago.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by nicko Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:06 pm
You are all ignorant on the practice of Halal slaughter ! The Iman must say a prayer while the animal is conscious, So the animal is "pre-stunned" but not killed,as that would be "harem". So animal is still alive when it's throat is cut ! For those of you whosay it does not happen, go to a slaughter house and see the truth. Sorry they will not let "Christians in to see these cruel practices I worked in a slaughter house for a few weeks,I'v seen it happen to Cows and Sheep. When they kill Chickens, do you think they take the time to say a prayer over thousands of them ? I'll tell you how they do it, they are hung upside down on hooks on a moving line witch dips their heads in water witch has an electric current running through it. So fuck off trying to say Muslim slaughter houses are HUMANE !!!!
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by HoratioTarr Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:13 pm
nicko wrote:You are all ignorant on the practice of Halal slaughter ! The Iman must say a prayer while the animal is conscious, So the animal is "pre-stunned" but not killed,as that would be "harem". So animal is still alive when it's throat is cut ! For those of you whosay it does not happen, go to a slaughter house and see the truth. Sorry they will not let "Christians in to see these cruel practices I worked in a slaughter house for a few weeks,I'v seen it happen to Cows and Sheep. When they kill Chickens, do you think they take the time to say a prayer over thousands of them ? I'll tell you how they do it, they are hung upside down on hooks on a moving line witch dips their heads in water witch has an electric current running through it. So fuck off trying to say Muslim slaughter houses are HUMANE !!!!
Veya did say that the animals are stunned first. Though it's debatable whether this is done religiously (no pun intended) with either halal or non halal slaughter. We don't really know what goes on in those awful places.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by nicko Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:21 pm
The Quran says they have to be alive before they are killed, so they can hear the Prayer .I have explained how they get around it !
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by HoratioTarr Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:30 pm
nicko wrote:The Quran says they have to be alive before they are killed, so they can hear the Prayer .I have explained how they get around it !
Things have apparently changed in UK abattoirs. They used to stun them but now they stun and kill at the same time. But sadly, this is still not infallible.
Stun to kill techniques
Slaughter in the UK is still predominantly based around the notion that the heart must continue beating after an animal's throat has been cut in order to pump out the blood. Studies have shown that in fact, it makes no difference whether an animal's heart is still beating - the amount of blood lost will be the same. As a result, new techniques have been developed which stun and kill animals at the same time - either by using gas (used for birds and pigs) or by using electricity to cause unconsciousness and simultaneously give the animal a cardiac arrest (used for sheep, pigs and cattle. See also Chickens, Turkeys, Ducks and Geese). Only a small percentage of abattoirs currently use these techniques.
These methods do at least remove the risk of animals regaining consciousness while they are bleeding to death. However, gas mixtures do not kill instantly and can cause great distress if they contain carbon dioxide. The Scientific Veterinary Committee of the EU say that when electricity is used , animals do not always lose consciousness and can therefore suffer a 'potentially painful' cardiac arrest.
Pig slaughter
Most pigs are electrically stunned and research has shown that the inaccurate placement of the electric tongs is a big problem within the industry. Research has shown that 36% of tong placements do not span the brain as required by law. 13.3% of pigs are stunned on the snout and jaws - a position which is not recommended because animals may fail to lose consciousness. Viva! estimates that in the UK, 125,000 pigs a year will not be stunned at all because of this.
Pigs stay unconscious for an average of 42 seconds but not all pigs will be unconscious for as long as this. They take up to 23 seconds to lose brain responsiveness, meaning that the interval between stunning and knifing should certainly not be longer than 19 seconds. But MHS statistics reveal that in many abattoirs, the interval between stunning and knifing is longer than this. Viva! estimates that in the UK, approximately a million pigs will regain consciousness before they die from loss of blood. We have video footage showing pigs regaining consciousness as they bleed to death.
Researchers at Bristol University found that after an electric stun, sheep are not able to feel pain but they are have periods of being fully aware of their surroundings i.e. they can still feel fear and they are conscious whilst hanging upside down on the killing rail, bleeding to death. They could not prove whether the electricity has an immediate effect and Dr Harold Hillman, Director of the Unity Laboratory of Applied Neurobiology, says that when animals are stunned, they suffer extreme pain. They are unable to cry out or move because the massive electric current paralyses them. His evidence is based on reports from human torture victims.
Before being killed, birds' heads are supposed to be immersed in an electrified waterbath in an attempt to cause unconsciousness. Some birds defecate during stunning meaning that birds can inhale faeces when they are dipped into the waterbath. Turkeys can also suffer painful pre-stun electric shocks because their wings hang lower than their heads and can enter the bath first. Despite attempts to change the system, scientists estimate that around 6% of turkeys - or 2.1 million turkeys each year - still receive prestun electric shocks.
Birds are known to "swan-neck" - raising their heads when entering the electrical waterbath and so avoiding full immersion. This is a particular problem for ducks and geese. Any birds who are not stunned are meant to be decapitated by a 'back-up killer' whilst conscious. The killer will be working with a line speed of up to 9,000 birds an hour and any birds who are missed continue on to the neck-cutter.
Birds routinely regain consciousness before they die if they do not have a cardiac arrest when they enter the waterbath. This is because they take much longer than mammals to lose brain responsiveness. Broiler chickens have been shown to recover consciousness 52 seconds after stunning in an electrical waterbath. Hens have been shown to recover consciousness after as little as 22 seconds. This means that birds who do not have a cardiac arrest will recover consciousness after being knived. It takes chickens nearly three minutes to lose brain responsiveness if both carotid arteries are severed and around 5 minutes if one jugular artery and one carotid artery is severed. If 90% of birds have a cardiac arrest at stunning, a further 62 million birds will regain consciousness before they die from loss of blood.
14 abattoirs appear to use automatic neck-cutters which only sever one carotid artery. In this case, birds who do not have a cardiac arrest at stunning will still be alive when they enter the scalding tank. Viva! estimates that 8.4 million birds will only have one carotid artery cut and will therefore be conscious on entering the scalding tank.
[/i]https://www.viva.org.uk/what-we-do/slaughter/slaughter-farmed-animals-uk
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by HoratioTarr Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:31 pm
My brother worked briefly at a chicken processing factory. He left after only a few weeks unable to bear it. Chicken often went through the scalder and plucker while still alive.
Check our your next Kentucky, and you'll find broken bones there. Bones surrounded by dark meat which is where the bone broke and bled before the animal died.
Check our your next Kentucky, and you'll find broken bones there. Bones surrounded by dark meat which is where the bone broke and bled before the animal died.
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Re: Brexit. What an omnishambolic clusterfuck.
by Tommy Monk Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:41 pm
Eilzel wrote:The vote result was 52/48.
Farage had said before that if Brexit lost (as he expected it would, at the time) by a narrow margin, that there would be 'unfinished business'.
Well that margin was extremely narrow and now looks to have flipped completely having seen lies exposed, 2 years of a falling pound, companies leaving, a government in freefall and atrocious negotiations all round.
A People's Vote, based on FACTS, is now surely the only way to decide on:
-May's deal
-No deal
-Remain
If the result goes the way of Brexit again, no one could argue further.
1.5 million more people voted to leave than to remain!!!
Since then there has been wall to wall bullshit and obstruction from the remainers!!!
It is time to get on with leaving properly, and as the EU is only offering a stitch up deal, then we need to leave on a no deal basis!!!
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