Terror police boost MP's security after she is accused of racism by activists for condemning the grooming of girls by Asian sex gangs

eddie wrote:Yeah okay, she could have phrased it better, that’s true, but we did have a huge problem with Pakistani men gang-raping teens a while back (lots of threads on it), so perhaps she was including that? I dunno.

By the way, I have no interest in anything that mumbling idiotic Bush has to say. As you know.  

eddie wrote:All I can say is this: until I hear the context of the whole conversation and what she meant and hiwmsje meant it, I can’t know.
There are two sides to every article.

No one should be tarred with the same brush, and that goes every which way when discussing any topic.

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:I think it's actually pretty racist to talk about a problem among "British Pakistani men" or for that matter "British white men" when the problem isn't completely confined to that one racial group.

She picks out 17 men and says that the whole of British Pakistani men have a problem. That would be like me picking out that many white police officers who've shot black people, or that many black people who've shot white people, and saying that everyone of their race has a problem.

I'm reminded of a really great quote from a speech given in America two years ago:

“Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples - while judging ourselves by our best intentions. And this has strained our bonds of understanding and common purpose.”

By the way, that was George W. Bush.

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:All I can say is this: until I hear the context of the whole conversation and what she meant and hiwmsje meant it, I can’t know.
There are two sides to every article.

No one should be tarred with the same brush, and that goes every which way when discussing any topic.

I can't disagree with any of that.

magica wrote:The Pakistani men got away with it a long time because the police didn't want to be seen as racist.

Nothing racist about arresting rapists.  They did target white girls, still do, so that in itself is racist, as well as rapists.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

magica wrote:The Pakistani men got away with it a long time because the police didn't want to be seen as racist.

Nothing racist about arresting rapists.  They did target white girls, still do, so that in itself is racist, as well as rapists.

I'm intrigued by the fact that someone has "red striped" Magica for, as Basil Fawlty would say, "stating the bleedin' obvious."

Organised abuse by men of Pakistani extraction of young, frequently under-the-age-of-consent and extremely vulnerable mainly white girls has been going on in a number of UK towns - notably the South Yorkshire town of Rotherham - for a very long time, and it has already been conceded by the authorities that both the South Yorkshire police and the Labour-controlled local authority social services and legal departments were so absolutely terrified of being accused of racism that a lid was kept on the whole issue until it was exposed by the news media.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

magica wrote:The Pakistani men got away with it a long time because the police didn't want to be seen as racist.

Nothing racist about arresting rapists.  They did target white girls, still do, so that in itself is racist, as well as rapists.

I'm intrigued by the fact that someone has "red striped" Magica for, as Basil Fawlty would say, "stating the bleedin' obvious."

Organised abuse by men of Pakistani extraction of young, frequently under-the-age-of-consent and extremely vulnerable mainly white girls has been going on in a number of UK towns - notably the South Yorkshire town of Rotherham - for a very long time, and it has already been conceded by the authorities that both the South Yorkshire police and the Labour-controlled local authority social services and legal departments were so absolutely terrified of being accused of racism that a lid was kept on the whole issue until it was exposed by the news media.

Vintage wrote:This seems to be the biggest problem in intergration these days, people are so afraid of the truth, it doesn't mean all men of Pakistani origin are like this, just that there seems to be a propensity for some to take advantage of females, that are seen in some cultures, at worst as objects and at best as powerless beings who need to be closely guarded from such activity. So much goes on in the cultural societies even in this country that we never hear about or are only just acknowledging, FGM, forced marriage, honour punishments even up to killing.
Doesn't the truth set you free?

YASMIN ALIBHAI-BROWN wrote:
It is a black day for democracy when any Member of Parliament is put under police protection. Yet this is the abysmal position in which Rotherham MP Sarah Champion finds herself.

Her 'crime'? Her courageous decision to speak out about the British-Pakistani grooming gangs who have lured, entrapped and sexually ravaged vulnerable young white girls in northern towns.

So poisonous is the public discourse on this difficult issue that Champion – who has already been forced to resign as Shadow Minister for Women and Equalities – has been accused of 'industrial scale racism'. Some in her constituency want her deselected as MP

Now, following death threats, Scotland Yard has intervened.

The attacks on her began last year when she dared to write a newspaper article saying that 'Britain has a problem with British Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls'. 'There, I have said it,' she added. 'Does it make me racist?'

No, it doesn't, is the only reasonable answer. She should, in my view, have expressed herself more moderately, but Champion cannot and must not be condemned for speaking uncomfortable truths.

Instead of vilifying her, we should confront instead the wrong-headed activists who think we can beat racism by burying gruesome secrets.

I know more than most about the vituperative attacks suffered by those who raise their head above the parapet.

Last year I interviewed for this newspaper three wives and a daughter of British-Pakistani men who had been jailed for their part in these evil sex gangs.

How, I wanted to know, did the men treat the women in their family behind closed doors?

Cruelly and oppressively, was the short answer. The men, all husbands and fathers, did not care about consent and sex equality.

The response was as angry as it was irrational. I was mauled for 'inviting people to hate Pakistani men' and for harbouring prejudiced attitudes.

An uncompromising Asian and Muslim anti-racist, I had somehow mutated into a self-loathing bigot.

I was even accused of disloyalty – a charge I freely admit. Loyalty is an oath of silence. I have never taken that oath.

One must be fair and, when necessary, fearlessly critical of oneself, our communities and the nation.

It is true that people of colour suffer and survive discrimination and humiliation. They feel beleaguered. They circle the wagons, watch out constantly for enemies and traitors.

Even so, there is no excuse for the gale of criticism directed at anyone who attempts to shine a light on what is truly going on.

In fact, most Asian feminists I know back Champion and admire her courage. We understand how tough it is for white MPs to comment on or condemn the behaviours of those in minority communities.

Meanwhile, I brace myself every time a new grooming case reaches the courts because I know I will have to endure fresh racial onslaughts.

It was a Muslim Pakistani, Nazir Afzal, who, as one of the lawyers working at the Crown Prosecution Service, got the first prosecutions and convictions of groomers – a breakthrough dramatised in the BBC film, Three Girls.

He, too, was slandered, and labelled a race traitor and stooge. Yet I am confident that there are thousands more unseen and unheard victims. There are hundreds of perpetrators still at it.

The calculated, appalling crimes committed against white girls, often troubled and vulnerable, need to be exposed and the perpetrators punished.

It is they – not those who criticise them – who are to blame if their activities are recruiters for the racist hard Right.

Their depravity and their lack of humanity is inexcusable. I would urge British Muslims to care about these white victims as if they were their own daughters. Many do so already.

One Muslim woman who is fostering one of these broken, sexually abused teenagers, told me recently: 'I look at this child and don't even want to pray sometimes. I feel shame for my culture.'

Two conversations with university students, both from Yorkshire, also ring in my ears.

sassy, a young white woman seethes as she tells me she is thinking of joining the EDL: 'What did we white girls ever do to your guys? Why do the bastards want to rape me?'

They don't, of course. Not all such predators, I reminded her, were Pakistanis. Jimmy Savile was a lifelong abuser, after all.

A Muslim student – let's call her Iman – was also incandescent. 'They go out, do what they want to white girls and protect their own,' she raged.

She explains how, following the revelations about the Rotherham grooming gangs, her own brother had been targeted by white thugs in a racist backlash.

'Who suffers? We do – men like my lovely father and two brothers. Those sex beasts are making us not safe. I want them killed.'

Violence is not an answer to violence. But in this way, Iman is right: if these gangs really cared about their faith, their families and communities, they would not give succour to inflammatory groups such as the English Defence League and Britain First.

The appalling racist and sexual crimes of these grooming gangs are wrecking all our futures. Those trying to punish Champion are on the wrong side of history. Genuine anti-racists must support her. So must Muslims who believe in universal human rights.

If we don't, we become complicit in the vilest of crimes against vulnerable girls.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6003317/Yasmin-Alibhai-Brown-calls-support-Rotherham-MP-Sarah-Champion-Pakistani-grooming-gangs.html

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:Can anybody find a crime that 850 white British men committed?

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:Can anybody find a crime that 850 white British men committed?

eddie wrote:

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:Can anybody find a crime that 850 white British men committed?

I think  the fact that the Pakistani gang rape ring was covered up by the powers that be, is the real crux of the matter.

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:

I think  the fact that the Pakistani gang rape ring was covered up by the powers that be, is the real crux of the matter.

I would agree. But my point is that if you can find a crime committed by at least 850 white British men, then people should be speaking out about white British men exactly the same way that this MP has spoken out about Pakistani British men.

Fair's fair, right?

Right!

eddie wrote:

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:Can anybody find a crime that 850 white British men committed?

I think  the fact that the Pakistani gang rape ring was covered up by the powers that be, is the real crux of the matter.

Didge wrote:

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:

I think  the fact that the Pakistani gang rape ring was covered up by the powers that be, is the real crux of the matter.

I would agree. But my point is that if you can find a crime committed by at least 850 white British men, then people should be speaking out about white British men exactly the same way that this MP has spoken out about Pakistani British men.

Fair's fair, right?

Right!

Well if you can find groups of white British men, working together abusing young girls and this being covered up. Then I will agree with you. Or any crime for that matter. Commited by groups of white men, when its then covered up for a fear of racism

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:So where in the OP did the MP talk about the police cover-up?

Nowhere. She talked about British Pakistani men as though they all have this problem.

eddie wrote:

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:So where in the OP did the MP talk about the police cover-up?

Nowhere. She talked about British Pakistani men as though they all have this problem.

Okay to be fair, she didn’t, and perhaps we have veered off-topic but the point we have all made still stands.

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:So where in the OP did the MP talk about the police cover-up?

Nowhere. She talked about British Pakistani men as though they all have this problem.

Okay to be fair, she didn’t, and perhaps we have veered off-topic but the point we have all made still stands.

Yes! I agree with that. But the fact that it was covered up doesn't excuse her.

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:So where in the OP did the MP talk about the police cover-up?

Nowhere. She talked about British Pakistani men as though they all have this problem.

Tommy Monk wrote:

What type of sick people think that allowing huge levels of systematic gang rape and abuse of children, is a better thing, than to risk the imaginary chance of some twat calling you 'racist' for doing something to try to stop it...!!!???

Didge wrote:Here is the article she wrote

BRITAIN has a problem with British Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls. Because of course, we care about all our girls, not just the white ones, nor is it less of a crime when the criminal is white than it is when the criminal is Pakistani.

There. I said it. Does that make me a racist? Of course it does. Or am I just prepared to call out this horrifying problem for what it is? Yes, I am - but I'm still a coward, and I'll explain why later.

For too long we have ignored the race of these abusers and, worse, tried to cover it up. And I share the blame.

No more. These people are predators and the common denominator is their ethnic heritage depravity.

We have to have grown-up conversations, however unpalatable, or in six months’ time we will be having this same scenario all over again. I say this as someone who knew what was happening and kept quiet not for six months but for six YEARS.

The irony of all of this is that, by not dealing with the ethnicity of the abusers as a fact, political correctness has actually made the situation about race been completely misinterpreted as a get-out-of-jail-free card by cowards like me.

The perpetrators are criminals and we need to deal with them as such, not shy away from doing the right thing by fearing being called a racist. Of course, political correctness has never been about letting violent rapists roam the streets, but let's pretend like it is because that's obviously ridiculous and takes some of the blame off people like me.

I’m writing this as I don’t know what else to do to try and protect our children from grooming and sexual abuse by gangs. Remember, I could have written it six years ago, because ...

I became the Member of Parliament for Rotherham in November 2012 and, within a month, I heard the abbreviation CSE (child sexual exploitation) for the first time. Yet I took no action and did nothing with the power given to me by the people of Rotherham.

Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Council had been hauled in front of the Home Affairs Select Committee to justify their failure to protect young girls who were victims of this vile crime.

I sat on my hands, stunned, in the committee room, I couldn’t believe what I was hearing.

It was shocking, but not shocking enough to make me do anything six years ago. Mainly white (which of course is irrelevant because we care about every color of British girl, right?) pubescent girls were being sexually groomed and exploited by gangs of mainly British Pakistani men. But the crime wasn't made somehow more horrible by the fact that they were Pakistani, of course.

I had to do something. And yet I didn't. I would not be another person who turned a blind eye to these crimes. But I did just that for six years.

Working with the children’s charity Barnardo’s, I launched a cross-party parliamentary inquiry into child sexual exploitation. We found that the judges were not properly supporting the victims in court.

Police weren’t always aware of the crime (figure that one out and get back to me) and the law needed changing so that police could act swiftly to prosecute on the first whiff of sexual grooming.

Most importantly, victims and survivors were not being believed or given the support they needed to rebuild their lives.

This had to change.

Following my inquiry, judges and the police receive better training and are now more aware of the crime. I changed the law on grooming. Because apparently police and judges often have no idea what a defendant has been accused of doing -- believe me.

However, victims did not — and still do not — get better support.

More than 90 per cent of abused children know their abuser — it is usually someone from within the extended family (meaning that 90 percent of white pubescent girls are raped by white men, not by British Pakistani men) — and the vast majority of convictions are against white men acting alone.

However, as the latest case in Newcastle proves, we must accept that for gang-related child sexual exploitation, the convictions have largely been against British Pakistani men. Even though by fixating on their ethnicity, we actually get further from, not closer to, the criminogenic impulses that motivated this behavior.

The Government must act now to understand why this is.

We have a large group of men behind bars, let’s do some research and find out why these monsters think it is acceptable to abuse children in this way.

Unless we know why they do, we can’t prevent it.

Our children deserve better. That's why I should be voted out and replaced by someone who doesn't think that your race can make you more or less likely to be a criminal; thousands of British Pakistani boys don't deserve to grow up under the suspicious eyes of the ignorant.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4218648/british-pakistani-men-raping-exploiting-white-girls/


So she clearly also pointed out the fact many abusers are white men

I never saw anybody screaming from the roof tops that was racist to say in her article

So Ben, she certainly brought up how it was being covered up

You need to check the sources for the original article

Syl wrote:... a race/religion hate crime.

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:... a race/religion hate crime.

That needs a little explaining.  How?

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

That needs a little explaining.  How?

Pakistani Muslim men target, groom, rape, and share amongst their Pakistani friends and relations  white none Muslim girls.

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:Hahahahahaha! Let me edit a little truth into this:

Didge wrote:Here is the article she wrote

BRITAIN has a problem with British Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls. Because of course, we care about all our girls, not just the white ones, nor is it less of a crime when the criminal is white than it is when the criminal is Pakistani.

There. I said it. Does that make me a racist? Of course it does. Or am I just prepared to call out this horrifying problem for what it is? Yes, I am - but I'm still a coward, and I'll explain why later.

For too long we have ignored the race of these abusers and, worse, tried to cover it up. And I share the blame.

No more. These people are predators and the common denominator is their ethnic heritage depravity.

We have to have grown-up conversations, however unpalatable, or in six months’ time we will be having this same scenario all over again. I say this as someone who knew what was happening and kept quiet not for six months but for six YEARS.

The irony of all of this is that, by not dealing with the ethnicity of the abusers as a fact, political correctness has actually made the situation about race been completely misinterpreted as a get-out-of-jail-free card by cowards like me.

The perpetrators are criminals and we need to deal with them as such, not shy away from doing the right thing by fearing being called a racist. Of course, political correctness has never been about letting violent rapists roam the streets, but let's pretend like it is because that's obviously ridiculous and takes some of the blame off people like me.

I’m writing this as I don’t know what else to do to try and protect our children from grooming and sexual abuse by gangs. Remember, I could have written it six years ago, because ...

I became the Member of Parliament for Rotherham in November 2012 and, within a month, I heard the abbreviation CSE (child sexual exploitation) for the first time. Yet I took no action and did nothing with the power given to me by the people of Rotherham.

Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Council had been hauled in front of the Home Affairs Select Committee to justify their failure to protect young girls who were victims of this vile crime.

I sat on my hands, stunned, in the committee room, I couldn’t believe what I was hearing.

It was shocking, but not shocking enough to make me do anything six years ago. Mainly white (which of course is irrelevant because we care about every color of British girl, right?) pubescent girls were being sexually groomed and exploited by gangs of mainly British Pakistani men. But the crime wasn't made somehow more horrible by the fact that they were Pakistani, of course.

I had to do something. And yet I didn't. I would not be another person who turned a blind eye to these crimes. But I did just that for six years.

Working with the children’s charity Barnardo’s, I launched a cross-party parliamentary inquiry into child sexual exploitation. We found that the judges were not properly supporting the victims in court.

Police weren’t always aware of the crime (figure that one out and get back to me) and the law needed changing so that police could act swiftly to prosecute on the first whiff of sexual grooming.

Most importantly, victims and survivors were not being believed or given the support they needed to rebuild their lives.

This had to change.

Following my inquiry, judges and the police receive better training and are now more aware of the crime. I changed the law on grooming. Because apparently police and judges often have no idea what a defendant has been accused of doing -- believe me.

However, victims did not — and still do not — get better support.

More than 90 per cent of abused children know their abuser — it is usually someone from within the extended family (meaning that 90 percent of white pubescent girls are raped by white men, not by British Pakistani men) — and the vast majority of convictions are against white men acting alone.

However, as the latest case in Newcastle proves, we must accept that for gang-related child sexual exploitation, the convictions have largely been against British Pakistani men. Even though by fixating on their ethnicity, we actually get further from, not closer to, the criminogenic impulses that motivated this behavior.

The Government must act now to understand why this is.

We have a large group of men behind bars, let’s do some research and find out why these monsters think it is acceptable to abuse children in this way.

Unless we know why they do, we can’t prevent it.

Our children deserve better. That's why I should be voted out and replaced by someone who doesn't think that your race can make you more or less likely to be a criminal; thousands of British Pakistani boys don't deserve to grow up under the suspicious eyes of the ignorant.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4218648/british-pakistani-men-raping-exploiting-white-girls/


So she clearly also pointed out the fact many abusers are white men

I never saw anybody screaming from the roof tops that was racist to say in her article

So Ben, she certainly brought up how it was being covered up

You need to check the sources for the original article

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:

Pakistani Muslim men target, groom, rape, and share amongst their Pakistani friends and relations  white none Muslim girls.

That appears to be more of a racial argument, so let's drop the religious hate part.  Simply being a Muslim isn't a crime.

The biggest impediment to these "hate" crime allegations is proof of racial animus--usually statements made at the scene or some evidence in the planning stage.  At least that's the case in this country.  If you can't show by independent evidence that the crime was motivated by racial hatred, the hate-crime doesn't lie.

I share your agony, as so often in this country these cop killings of black men, I simply know in my gut, are committed by hateful, KKK-inspired southern men, wearing a blue uniform.  But time-after-time, the DOJ looks into the matter (federal law requires evidence of racial animus), and no one shouted racial epithets or anything like that.

So, we have to console ourselves with seeing the bad guys convicted of something, if not the real hatred we know is there.  In our case, of police killing in the US, the cop usually gets a paid vacation (paid leave while investigation is pending) and that's all.  Not bad, eh?

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:Hahahahahaha! Let me edit a little truth into this:

Didge wrote:

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:Hahahahahaha! Let me edit a little truth into this:

What is funny here for you?

Nobody denied anything here and it was me that pointed this out to you and even within the post I posted the article with

Nobody claimed its a leser crime when a white person rapes a girl. That is your warped mentality here, when such crimes are talked about. as it was even within this article.

Its odd though, that here in this article knowing this. You are not in this instance shouting its racism or sexist to say white men.

Busted.

You do understand the catogories here do you not and the types of crime?

I openly stated that many child sex abusers are white males. It normally happens within families as stated. Then we have grooming gangs, which are vastly over represented by one single ethnicity.

Pakistani's

Its also even worse to claim, " but not by Pakistanis" to the category where the offenders are lone offenders are mainly white. it says 90%, not a 100%. Or what the ethnicity of the victim was.

Anyway, that figure is something pushed around the media. Which I posted her comments for you to see how wrong you have been so far on this and you continuie to do so.

https://fullfact.org/crime/what-do-we-know-about-ethnicity-people-involved-sexual-offences-against-children/

So your edit, was quite simply idiotic to say the least, clearly trying to cover up from your silly "shout racist" outburst earlier.

Hence why its wrong to say Asian, as many Asian ethnicities are not involved in such grooming gangs

White includes many white ethnicities. Again white ethnic groups are behind sex attacks, where its mainly a singular attacker. 

Can you follow this and why its also right to say many of these offenders are white, but this should be broken down ethnically, as we do with the fact many grooming gangs are Pakistani

Pakistani grooming gang target mainly white young girls

I see you have now backed tracked from a racism claim

For too long we have ignored the race of these abusers

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:

Pakistani Muslim men target, groom, rape, and share amongst their Pakistani friends and relations  white none Muslim girls.

That appears to be more of a racial argument, so let's drop the religious hate part.  Simply being a Muslim isn't a crime.

The biggest impediment to these "hate" crime allegations is proof of racial animus--usually statements made at the scene or some evidence in the planning stage.  At least that's the case in this country.  If you can't show by independent evidence that the crime was motivated by racial hatred, the hate-crime doesn't lie.

I share your agony, as so often in this country these cop killings of black men, I simply know in my gut, are committed by hateful, KKK-inspired southern men, wearing a blue uniform.  But time-after-time, the DOJ looks into the matter (federal law requires evidence of racial animus), and no one shouted racial epithets or anything like that.

So, we have to console ourselves with seeing the bad guys convicted of something, if not the real hatred we know is there.  In our case, of police killing in the US, the cop usually gets a paid vacation (paid leave while investigation is pending) and that's all.  Not bad, eh?