Boris Johnson flat out lied (as did May) and plunged us into a new Cold War

by Guest Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:30 am

Porton Down experts unable to verify precise source of novichok

Defence lab unable to definitively say where nerve agent that poisoned Sergei Skripal and his daughter came from

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/03/porton-down-experts-unable-to-verify-precise-source-of-novichok

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5566707/Russian-nerve-agent-spy-poisoned-favourite-breakfast.html

So, ingested a huge toxic, fast acting nerve agent, walked around Salisbury, went for lunch with a friend and then later collaped.

Brief description

The Novichok class of agents were reportedly developed in an attempt to circumvent the Chemical Weapons Treaty (chemical weapons are banned on the basis of chemical structure and therefore a new chemical agent is not subject to past treaties). They have reportedly been engineered to be undetectable by standard detection equipment and to defeat standard chemical protective gear. Like other nerve agents, the Novichok agents act by inhibiting the enzyme cholinesterase.
Forms

Novichok agents may be dispersed as an ultra-fine powder as opposed to a gas or a vapour.
Identifying characteristics

Novichok agents may consist of two separate ‘non-toxic’ components that, when mixed, become the active nerve agent. No further information is available.
Exposure

The main route of exposure is thought to be by inhalation, although absorption may also occur via skin or mucous membrane exposure.
Onset

Novichok is reported to be 5–8 times more lethal than VX nerve agent and effects are rapid, usually within 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/novichok-agent

Isnt it nice to have a Foreign Secretary you can trust to be calm and measured and never tell lies.

by Guest Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:34 am

But with the other evidence they have, it certainly does link to Russia

So how are they lying?

Asked if it was possible to establish where the Novichok was made, Mr Aitkenhead added: 'It can be established through a number of different input sources which the Government has access to.
'From our perspective scientific evidence is only one of those sources and it requires a number of other things in order to verify that.
'At this stage, with the work that we've done thus far, we've been able to establish that it's Novichok or from that family.
'We are continuing to work to help to provide additional information that might help us get closer to the question that you ask but we haven't yet been able to do that.
'Unfortunately this is an extremely toxic substance. There is not, as far as we know, any antidote that you can use to negate the effects of it.
'We can and we have advised the hospital and the medics on the best course of trying to mitigate against the effects but this is an extremely toxic substance and not something that you can easily give something to somebody to help them recover.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5574077/Experts-confirm-nerve-agent-used-poison-spy-Russia.html#ixzz5BhNZmIhd
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It was not a fast agent, so no idea where you get that from, it was slow working, otherwise all 3 infected would be dead.

by Tommy Monk Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:02 pm

Sky news headline feed at bottom of news channel screen just said that govt have deleted a tweet that they said Porton Down had confrimed it was definitely Russian made!

Plus Didge... if it ever was novichok, there would have been deaths very quickly...!

I still don't believe it was anything to do with Russia!!!

There is no evidence of anything!!!

by Guest Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:36 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Sky news headline feed at bottom of news channel screen just said that govt have deleted a tweet that they said Porton Down had confrimed it was definitely Russian made!

Plus Didge... if it ever was novichok, there would have been deaths very quickly...!

I still don't believe it was anything to do with Russia!!!

There is no evidence of anything!!!

1) The foreign office did based on a gaff Boris made

2) Incorrect, I showed you before experts who proved they can be slow. Hence why the Policeman contracted this, as it can be passed on but in smaller amounts. Where ever the victims may have touched other items. So to say they would be dead very quickly is bollocks

3) That is up to you not to believe, the whole EU certainly does and the US. Who clearly have access to the other evidence

by Guest Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:38 pm

Again for Tommy, have a listen and read

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43377698

by Tommy Monk Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:27 pm

Waffle...

by Guest Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:36 pm

In making its case against Russia for poisoning the renegade spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury, the Government has relied on several factors. The chemical weapons establishment at Porton Down has identified the substance as being from the Novichok family of nerve agents. These were developed by the old Soviet Union, and a Russian whistle-blower who fled to America in the 1990s disclosed that stockpiles had never been destroyed.

Gary Aitkenhead, the head of the Porton Down laboratory, said in a TV interview on Tuesday that they could not be absolutely sure of the poison’s source, but he called it an extremely toxic military-grade poison.

This suggests a state player, so which one? Who had a motive? Moreover, which state has a track record of pursuing its own citizens overseas and killing them while denying any involvement? Alexander Litvinenko, the former FSB agent poisoned with polonium in London, is just one example.

Anyone sitting on a jury confronted with this evidence would be hard pressed not to find Russia guilty on the balance of probabilities, if not beyond reasonable doubt. Theresa May managed to pull together an international response to the outrage by arguing that Russian involvement was “the only plausible explanation”; and she is right. There are, of course, other possible explanations; but all are purveyed by Moscow which has an obvious interest in sowing confusion among Britain’s allies, aided once again by Jeremy Corbyn.

Unfortunately, Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, has muddied the waters by telling a German TV station that he had been assured by “the guy” at Porton Down that there was no doubt the substance came from Russia. A Foreign Office tweet to this effect has since been deleted.

Yet it is not the job of Porton Down to identify where the substance comes from, only what it is, so it was an ill-judged decision to let Mr Aitkenhead speak out given the obvious potential for misunderstanding. The body charged with investigating the source is the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons based in The Hague, which is currently examining the evidence and is due to making its findings known shortly.

But even if they can never be 100 per cent certain that the nerve agent came from Russia on orders from the Kremlin, any reasonable person looking at all the evidence could reach only one conclusion about Moscow’s culpability.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/04/porton-results-prove-russias-guilt-highly-probable-not-beyond/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

Vladimir Putin timed the Salisbury poisoning to boost his support in the Russian election, one of America’s top intelligence officials has suggested.

Dan Coats, the US director of national intelligence, told The Telegraph that Mr Putin wanted to appear the “strongman” and “bad guy” before the vote.

He said the Russian president was pushing “very hard” to get re-elected with as high a vote share as possible. The election took place a fortnight after the Salisbury attack.

Mr Coats also said America would take more action against Russia over its disruptive recent behaviour, though did not detail what measures are being planned.

Mr Coats, who co-ordinates the work of 17 separate US intelligence agencies, was speaking at a briefing held by the Defence Writers Group, part of George Washington University.

Sergei Skripal, the Russian double agent, and his daughter Yulia were poisoned on March 4. The Russian election was held on March 18.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/04/vladimir-putin-timed-salisbury-attack-get-election-boost-top/

by Tommy Monk Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:46 pm

More waffle and speculation... no evidence...!!!

by Guest Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:48 am

[*]Russia has explored carrying out assassinations by using Novichok on handles
[*]Police have already said they believe nerve agent was smeared on Skripal's BMW
[*]British intelligence agencies have evidence of the tactics being used previously
[*]Agents claim to know Moscow also tested the lethal poison on ‘everyday objects’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5579643/Russia-tested-using-nerve-agent-poisoned-spy-door-handles.html#ixzz5Bm45zZxg
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

by Guest Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:51 am

The Kremlin has convened an emergency meeting of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons to demand an inquiry into the Salisbury case.

Addressing the meeting at the Hague, Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said: 'The purpose of Russia's ludicrous proposal at The Hague was clear - to undermine the independent, impartial work of the international chemical weapons watchdog.

'Russia has had one goal in mind since the attempted murders on UK soil through the use of a military-grade chemical weapon - to obscure the truth and confuse the public.

'The international community has yet again seen through these tactics and robustly defeated Russia's attempts today to derail the proper international process.

'It shows that many countries around the world continue to share our assessment of what happened in Salisbury and are determined to stand up to Russia's behaviour.

'What's more, none of us have forgotten that today marks a year since so many people were barbarically killed in a chemical weapons attack in Syria. After the OPCW-UN investigation found that the Syrian regime was responsible, Russia blocked that body from doing any more work.

'It seems Russia will never accept the legitimacy of any investigation into chemical weapons use unless it comes up with an answer Russia likes.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5577693/Diane-Abbott-claims-Corbyn-right-question-Salisbury-attack.html#ixzz5Bm4uREux
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

by Tommy Monk Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:14 pm

Whatever...

by Guest Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:11 am

A Russian military research base has been identified as the source of the nerve agent used at Salisbury in a British intelligence briefing for its allies, The Times has learnt.

It was used to persuade world leaders that Moscow was behind the poisoning and said that the novichok chemical was manufactured at the Shikhany facility in southwest Russia. The briefing led to the expulsion of more than 150 Russian diplomats from 28 countries. Also included was information suggesting that Shikhany, Russia’s equivalent of the defence laboratory at Porton Down, was used during the past decade to test whether novichok could be effective for assassinations abroad. The weapons-grade nerve agent was used to poison the former double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, a month ago.

The stockpiles detected at Shikhany were far smaller than would be used in a battlefield weapon, suggesting their use in targeted killings. Hamish de Bretton Gordon, the former commander of Britain’s Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Regiment, who has seen the intelligence, called it very compelling. “The intelligence Britain has clearly points to Russia and Shikhany,” he said. “No doubt the Russians are scrubbing it down as we speak.”

Mr de Bretton Gordon said that there was nothing to support claims that novichok could have come from elsewhere in the former Soviet Union, such as Ukraine or Uzbekistan.

Yesterday Ms Skripal spoke publicly for the first time since the poisoning, saying that her strength was “growing daily” in a statement released by the Metropolitan Police on her behalf.
Officials were working to determine the authenticity of a phone call broadcast by Russian state television said to be between Ms Skripal, 33, and her cousin, Viktoria. The woman said to be Ms Skripal claimed in the call that her father, 66, was also recovering, contradicting hospital reports that he is critical but stable. Russia repeated a demand yesterday that it be given consular access to the Skripals.

Britain is understood to be anxious not to reveal its sources over the briefing but intelligence services are growing frustrated at Russia’s upper hand in the propaganda war. They have lobbied Downing Street to release more of the intelligence that helped to convince allies of Moscow’s guilt. Whitehall sources said that the intelligence sharing with allies had been unprecedented.

Alexander Yakovenko, the Russian ambassador to London, insisted yesterday that his country had never developed the novichok agent. “This is a creation of some other countries and some scientists,” he said.

In a 90-minute press conference he veered from sarcasm to giggles to praise for the embassy’s notorious Twitter feed. One journalist took Mr Yakovenko to task, saying: “You keep smiling and joking. That suggests you are not taking this seriously.” “That’s just my style,” Mr Yakovenko retorted. “Don’t read too much into it. Russia is taking this very seriously.”

Britain and Russia clashed at the UN last night after Moscow called an emergency session of the security council. Vassily Nebenzia, the Russian ambassador to the UN, said: “We have told our British colleagues that you’re playing with fire and you’ll be sorry.” He demanded that Britain produce further evidence of his country’s involvement.

Karen Pierce, the British ambassador to the UN, said that Russia was like “an arsonist turned firefighter but in this particular instance the arsonist wants to investigate his own fire”.

She told Mr Nebenzia that when Britain said it was “highly likely” that Russia carried out the attack “it is a reflection of our judicial process and should not cast doubt on our certainty”. “We do not have anything to hide but we fear Russia has something to fear,” she said.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/salisbury-poison-made-at-russia-s-porton-down-7p7kfcs3c

by Tommy Monk Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:40 pm

Waffle...

by Vintage Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:53 pm

Means. motive, opportunity. Russia has done little except to bully and threaten, including alluding to nuclear muscle, who does that unless they have something to hide.
Putin is posturing and preening in the old Soviet way, what can you expect others to think.

by Tommy Monk Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:14 pm

Nothing to gain but a lot to lose...

I reckon false flag to try to turn public opinion against Russia for two reasons... one is to pave the way for action against Russian backed Syrian govt... two is to start seizing Russian 'oligarchs' money/assets...

And before you say not... there has already been plenty of govt chatter about these two things...!

by Vintage Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:22 pm

Who would gain from this?
Why does Russia never want to co operate with non soviet style countries, is it because they are afraid of what will happen to their peoples if exposed to capitalism, that's already happened to a degree. People can have different styles of government and still get along. Putin seems to want to go back to the devious secretive totalitarianism. We all have to live on this rock, its time we grew up and learned to co operate. Russia actually keeps threatening nuclear violence, what sane government does that, who exactly would win a modern nuclear war? Again who gains by this?

by Guest Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:46 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Nothing to gain but a lot to lose...

I reckon false flag to try to turn public opinion against Russia for two reasons... one is to pave the way for action against Russian backed Syrian govt... two is to start seizing Russian 'oligarchs' money/assets...

And before you say not... there has already been plenty of govt chatter about these two things...!

Never heard so much nonesence in all my life and even worse you keep defending both Putin and Assad, the later of which is a mass murderer.

At no point over this has any action been played with Syria with this. If the West wanted to do something about Syria, they could and yet they have not done so. All they have done is confined themselves to airstrikes and military aid and support.

The west was already seizing Russian 'oligarchs' money/assets, before this even happened. So to use the line of the Kremlin, seriously puts your loyalty to this country into question Tommy. As who's side are you really on here?

At the end of the day, any tit for tat seizing of money/assets of people in Russia, the Uk and USA, does not help any of these nations. It hurts them all and nobody wins. All that happens, is that finnacially, all countries lose out from this.

The view on Syria, is complete balderdash and at every turn you ignore the fact the evidence is so overwhelming on Assad using chemical weapons and all you can do is go waffle. Hence I ask, who are your loyalties with Tommy? You also ignore that when the the Syrians were found with evidence to have used chemical weapons by the UN. It was the Russians who put a stop to any further investigations and access on this. Maybe you can explain that Tommy?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/18/syria-chemical-attacks-haley-russia-shameful-veto-un-inquiry

So both your claims to a red flag fall so flat, its born of the worst conspiracy bullshit. From those who are in fact supporters of Putin and also those die hard Corbynista's. Putin is the man, when elected. That actually instigated terrorist attacks within his own country, with the FSB carrying out these attrocities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings

There is is next to nothing for your claims and even worse, you discount your own intelligence service, based clearly on the lies of an idiot politician in Tony Blair. Where the intelligence services told him the truth and MI5 warned against the Iraq war. You simple are making yourself the next best candidate after Sassy, to take the mantle of Lord Haw Haw.

by Tommy Monk Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:53 am

'...The British authorities are beginning the process of seizing the assets of Russian immigrants, Defense Minister Gavin Williamson said at a press conference in Tallinn on Monday.

According to him, these measures will be taken in response to the poisoning of former intelligent agent Sergei Skripal in Salisbury. British investigators have accused Russia of this...'

http://www.uawire.org/uk-begins-to-seize-russian-assets

In December 2016, President Obama ordered the seizure of the two compounds
and expelled 35 Russian diplomats in response to Russia's interference in the
2016 U.S. presidential election. U.S. intelligence agencies say Russia tried to nterfere in the election on behalf of Donald Trump against his rival, ...

https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/07/russia-us-compounds/533988/

But still no evidence on either accusation...

by Tommy Monk Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:17 am

And here is another part of the bullshit... as I posted about a few days ago...

Fake gas attacks staged by US backed ISIS rebels...

And here it is on news now...

Syria war: Scores dead in Syria gas attack, rescuers and medics say - 1 hour ago
Rescuers and medics say at least 70 people have died in Syria after toxic gas was dropped on Douma, the last rebel-held town in Eastern Ghouta. Volunteer rescue force the White Helmets tweeted graphic images showing scores of bodies in a basement. It said the death toll is likely to rise.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43686157

by Tommy Monk Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:31 am

https://www.mintpressnews.com/investigation-white-helmets-committing-acts-terror-across-syria/231597/

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=https://renegadeinc.com/the-guardian-white-helmets-and-silenced-comment/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjy_fT4zqnaAhWNKVAKHfBsBa0QFggdMAY&usg=AOvVaw1qLBv75Djn9guwc1jme0NG

by Guest Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:44 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

'...The British authorities are beginning the process of seizing the assets of Russian immigrants, Defense Minister Gavin Williamson said at a press conference in Tallinn on Monday.

According to him, these measures will be taken in response to the poisoning of former intelligent agent Sergei Skripal in Salisbury. British investigators have accused Russia of this...'

http://www.uawire.org/uk-begins-to-seize-russian-assets

In December 2016, President Obama ordered the seizure of the two compounds
and expelled 35 Russian diplomats in response to Russia's interference in the
2016 U.S. presidential election. U.S. intelligence agencies say Russia tried to nterfere in the election on behalf of Donald Trump against his rival, ...

https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/07/russia-us-compounds/533988/

But still no evidence on either accusation...

Again how you discount the mass of evidence by the intelligence services proves now that I shall call you Lord Haw Haw

by Guest Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:47 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

And here is another part of the bullshit... as I posted about a few days ago...

Fake gas attacks staged by US backed ISIS rebels...

And here it is on news now...

Syria war: Scores dead in Syria gas attack, rescuers and medics say - 1 hour ago
Rescuers and medics say at least 70 people have died in Syria after toxic gas was dropped on Douma, the last rebel-held town in Eastern Ghouta. Volunteer rescue force the White Helmets tweeted graphic images showing scores of bodies in a basement. It said the death toll is likely to rise.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43686157

Fake gas attacks?

Seriously, you are an idiot at best, and even worse a idiot mouthpiece for Iran, Syria and Russia.

I suppose kids foaming at the mouth, a clear sign of chemical attacks, by Syria, using barrel bombs, is to you fake news

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/08/dozens-reported-dead-chemical-attack-insyria-us-blames-russia/

by Tommy Monk Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:11 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:https://www.mintpressnews.com/investigation-white-helmets-committing-acts-terror-across-syria/231597/

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=https://renegadeinc.com/the-guardian-white-helmets-and-silenced-comment/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjy_fT4zqnaAhWNKVAKHfBsBa0QFggdMAY&usg=AOvVaw1qLBv75Djn9guwc1jme0NG

The truth about the US backed ISIS terrorist propaganda group known as the 'white helmets'...!

by Guest Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:35 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:https://www.mintpressnews.com/investigation-white-helmets-committing-acts-terror-across-syria/231597/

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=https://renegadeinc.com/the-guardian-white-helmets-and-silenced-comment/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjy_fT4zqnaAhWNKVAKHfBsBa0QFggdMAY&usg=AOvVaw1qLBv75Djn9guwc1jme0NG

The truth about the US backed ISIS terrorist propaganda group known as the 'white helmets'...!

Bullshit alert

FAQ | Syrian Civil Defence, aka The White Helmets
Who are they? 3,000 volunteers from 115 centres across Syria who provide emergency relief at the scene of attacks
What do they do? The group works in accordance with the 1949 Geneva Conventions to protect civilians from danger, speed recovery from the immediate aftermath of hostilities or disaster, and provide conditions necessary for civilians’ survival. The group has saved at least 60,000 people so far
Where does it operate? In opposition-held areas: the volunteers have been targeted by Syrian government forces and they can’t safely access regime-held areas
When did the group form? After training for local volunteer groups was provided by Turkey mid-2013, the first annual meeting of representatives from local volunteer groups across the country was held in October 2014
Who funds it? The governments of the UK, Holland, Denmark, Germany, Japan, and the USA - through Mayday Rescue and Chemonics – as well as private donations

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/08/dozens-reported-dead-chemical-attack-insyria-us-blames-russia/

by Guest Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:36 pm

The Russia-backed campaign to link the volunteer rescuers with al-Qaida exposes how conspiracy theories take root: ‘It’s like a factory’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/syria-white-helmets-conspiracy-theories

So again Tommy is the mouthpiece of Russia

by Guest Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:44 pm

White Helmet Hearsay

A nongovernmental search-and-rescue organization on the ground in Syria has drawn a lot of attention, but claims they are linked to terrorists are unfounded.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/syrian-rescue-organization-the-white-helmets-are-terrorists/

by Tommy Monk Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:20 pm

The truth...

https://www.mintpressnews.com/investigation-white-helmets-committing-acts-terror-across-syria/231597/

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=https://renegadeinc.com/the-guardian-white-helmets-and-silenced-comment/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjy_fT4zqnaAhWNKVAKHfBsBa0QFggdMAY&usg=AOvVaw1qLBv75Djn9guwc1jme0NG

by Tommy Monk Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:25 pm

I posted this on 18th March...

Maybe this blaming Russia is setting up support for military action in Syria...?

With fake chemical attacks being staged by ISIS rebels as the next step...

https://www.rt.com/news/421589-us-preparing-syria-provocations-airstrikes/

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/03/17/555774/US-training-Syria-militants-for-false-flag-chemical-attacks-Russian-cmdr

by Guest Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:29 pm

CLAIM

The search-and-rescue organization in Syria, the White Helmets, is linked to terrorists.

RATING

UNPROVEN

ORIGIN

On 23 September 2016, 21stCenturyWire, a web site that has posted a barrage of stories downplaying reports of atrocities committed in Syria by forces of President Bashar al-Assad, reported that a volunteer search-and-rescue group that has come to be known as the White Helmets has ties to terrorism.
As violence in Aleppo, Syria’s largest city, reached a crescendo in mid-December 2016 with Syrian forces closing in on what remains of rebel-held areas in the east, stories on web sites with ideological leanings from across the political spectrum began circulating as interest peaked.
According to the story:

For the REAL Syria Civil Defence you call 113 inside Syria. There is no public number for the White Helmets. Why not? Why does this multi-million dollar US & NATO state-funded first repsonder ‘NGO,’ with state of the art equipment supplied by the US and the EU via Turkey, have no central number for civilians to call when the “bombs fall”?
Before we introduce the real Syria Civil Defence, who are Syria’s real ICDO certified civil fire and rescue organisation, let’s first take a closer look at the imposters; terrorists in white hats, and agents of war – NATO’s pseudo ‘NGO’ construct, embedded exclusively in terrorist-held parts of Syria.

While the article accuses the White Helmets of having terrorist ties in the headline (“EXCLUSIVE: The REAL Syria Civil Defence Exposes Fake ‘White Helmets’ as Terrorist-Linked Imposters”), it does not provide any proof in the body of the story. It instead heavily implies that the White Helmets are terrorists because they operate in areas held by the opposition, and because unnamed crew members of what the article calls the “REAL Syria Civil Defense in Aleppo” told the reporter that was the case. The article also contains an interview with a man she identifies as Dr. Bassem Hayak, who claims civilians in east Aleppo have never heard of the White Helmets organization.
The article then speculates that while the White Helmets are heavily funded by the West and that they possibly only exist as “NATO ghosts” who stage photo ops with “crisis actors” and stolen bodies:

Where do these bodies come from? Are they victims of air strikes as we are told by these NATO funded “activists” and “first responders” or are they taken from among the thousands of “disappeared” that have been kidnapped by Nusra Front and other terrorist gangs in East Aleppo? Are they gruesome props being used inhumanely, to polish the image of this faux NGO embedded in East Aleppo, HQ for Al Nusra Front…
It is not unreasonable, based upon the statements given by eminent members of the Aleppo medical fraternity and crew members of the REAL Syria Civil Defence in Aleppo, to draw the conclusion that the White Helmets are nothing more than common terrorists, being paid to present themselves as respectable first responders when the need arises for “reports from inside Aleppo” or elsewhere in Syria.

The White Helmets, also known as the Syria Civil Defense, is a nongovernmental, nonprofit organization led by Raed al-Saleh, a Syrian who helped found the group, and funded by Mayday Rescue, an organization founded by James Le Mesurier, a former intelligence officer with the British military. According to the web site for his Mayday Rescue organization, funding for the program does come from outside Syria, largely from the UK, Denmark, the Netherlands, Japan, and Germany. The organization also has the backing of the United States. The White Helmets have a tendency to draw criticism from Assad and his supporters because of their Western funding sources.
Many stories casting the organization in a negative light raise the suspicion that they are a propaganda tool for ousting Assad. As a profile in The Atlantic points out:

Although it has received support from many organizations and high-profile figures, it has been criticized by supporters of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s regime — and by Assad himself — for its ties to Western governments, from which the group receives millions of dollars in funding.

The group was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, but was not selected as winners, though they did receive an award known as the “alternative Nobel prize” from the Right Livelihood Award Foundation for “outstanding bravery, compassion and humanitarian engagement in rescuing civilians.” They were also the subject of an eponymous Netflix documentary.
Le Mesurier said the group has roughly 3,000 Syrian volunteers, both men and women, and he founded the organization with Turkish search-and-rescue specialists in 2013. They claim to have rescued 60,000 people since they began tracking that figure in 2014, and say more than 140 volunteers have died while serving. The group claims to be impartial, only interested in saving lives amid the chaos and atrocities of war. Their motto, taken from the Muslim holy book, the Quran, is “To save a life is to save all of humanity.”
The group has come under suspicion from those who support Assad. The Russian-funded television station, RT (formerly Russia Today), regularly posts stories casting doubt on the motives of the group (the Russian government supports the Assad regime).
The rumors reappeared in April 2017, blaming the White Helmets directly for a deadly gas attack in Syria.
Whatever their motives may be, we found no credible evidence that the White Helmets are linked to terrorist organizations. The accusations seem to be levied at the group based on political motivations, not evidence.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/syrian-rescue-organization-the-white-helmets-are-terrorists/

by Tommy Monk Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:36 pm

'...no credible evidence that the White Helmets are linked to terrorist organizations...'...!!!???

Are you having a fukkin laugh by posting that bullshit...!!!???

https://www.mintpressnews.com/investigation-white-helmets-committing-acts-terror-across-syria/231597/

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=https://renegadeinc.com/the-guardian-white-helmets-and-silenced-comment/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjy_fT4zqnaAhWNKVAKHfBsBa0QFggdMAY&usg=AOvVaw1qLBv75Djn9guwc1jme0NG

by Guest Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:57 pm

Show me the evidence?????

I see nothing in those two links

According to investigative journalists and analysts, SCD became a target of a systematic information warfare campaign by the Russian government, the Syrian government, and their supporters, who have accused the organisation of taking sides in the Syrian Civil War, carrying arms and supporting "terrorist" groups.^[85]^[6]^[2]^[3]^[86]^[87]^[82] According to The Guardian's Olivia Solon, claims by contributors to the English language Russian RT television network and Sputnik news agency have also come under critical scrutiny.^[4] According to the fact-checking organisation Snopes.com these accusations against the White Helmets are unfounded.^[1] Likewise, multiple journalists have raised serious questions as to the credibility and government ties of individuals making accusations against SCD.^[88]^[89]According to The New York Times's Linda Qiu, Assad's claim that the White Helmets are "Al-Qaeda members" was "without evidence".^[90]

In November 2016, the Revolutionaries of Syria Media Office, a Syrian media organisation, published a video showing two White Helmet volunteers performing a staged rescue operation for the Mannequin Challenge meme. The organisation apologised for their volunteers' error of judgement and said it had not shared the recording on their official channels.^[91]^[92]

In June 2017, a member of the White Helmets was suspended indefinitely after he was discovered to have assisted armed militants in the burial of mutilated corpses of soldiers belonging to pro-government forces.^[93]

According to The Guardian, the involvement of Syrian Civil Defense volunteers in those isolated incidents has largely risen to political ends in order to discredit the entire organization^[4], which confirms Snopes conclusion : "The accusations seem to be levied at the group based on political motivations"^[1]. These misinformation campaigns have been denounced by the report "Killing the truth", established by the organization "The Syria Campaign", close to the Syrian Civil Defense, and quoted by the Spiegel^[9], highlighting the role of bloggers Vanessa Beeley^[4],^[94],^[95] and Eva Bartlett^[95] as main actors and vectors of these campaigns^[9].

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Helmets_(Syrian_Civil_War)#cite_note-snopes-1

by Guest Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:03 pm

Some of the most vocal sceptics of the UN’s investigation include the blogger Vanessa Beeley, the daughter of a former British diplomat who visited Syria for the first time in July 2016; a University of Sydney senior lecturer, Timothy Anderson, who described the April chemical attack as a “hoax”; and Eva Bartlett, a Canadian writer and activist who said the White Helmets staged rescues using recycled victims – a claim that’s been debunked by Snopes and Channel 4 News.

“They are basically excusing the inexcusable,” said Lucas.
“They have a range of websites that will publish whatever nonsense and Russia Today will have them on TV,” he added.

The Russian strategy has been very successful at shaping the online conversation about the White Helmets. By gaming the social media algorithms with a flood of content, boosted by bots, sock puppet accounts and a network of agitators, propagandists are able to create a “manufactured consensus” that gives legitimacy to fringe views. Even Russia’s official channels, such as its UK embassy Twitter accounts, post memes discrediting the organisation.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/syria-white-helmets-conspiracy-theories

by Guest Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:05 pm

Eva Bartlett’s claims about Syrian children:

“Their video footage actually contains children that have been recycled in different reports. So you can find a girl named Aya who turns up in a report in say August, and she turns up in the next month in two different locations.”
EVA BARTLETT, 9 DECEMBER 2016

The background
Eva Bartlett is a Canadian citizen who describes herself as an “independent writer and rights activist”.

She writes a blog for the state-funded Russian media outlet Russia Today and is candid about her support for the regime of Bashar al-Assad, who is fighting Syrian rebels with Russian and Iranian help.

In a speech organised by the Syrian mission to the UN, Ms Bartlett recently criticised the western “corporate media”, saying journalists were “compromised” and used sources that were “not credible”.

She went on to attack the White Helmets, a volunteer rescue group funded by a number of western governments including Britain.

Western media outlets – including Channel 4 News – frequently broadcast footage supplied by the White Helmets, which purports to show the aftermath of regime attacks on various rebel-held areas in Syria.

Supporters of the Assad regime have variously accused the White Helmets of being puppets of western powers, peddlers of faked footage or even terrorist fighters posing as humanitarian workers, all of which the organisation vigorously denies.

Ms Bartlett said: “Their video footage actually contains children that have been recycled in different reports; so you can find a girl named Aya who turns up in a report in say August, and she turns up in the next month in two different locations.”

A clip from the press conference has been viewed more than 3 million times on In The NOW, a Facebook page run by Russia Today but not branded as such.

We’ve tried to contact Ms Bartlett without success, so it’s not 100 per cent clear what she means by this, but our best guess is that she is referring to a claim involving a girl called Aya which has been circulated widely on the internet:

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-eva-bartletts-claims-about-syrian-children

by Guest Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:08 pm

In the past few months, three Western women have gone to Syria, two of them by invitation and the third on a regime-approved reporting trip. The first two are now on "speaking tours" to explain "what's really happening in Syria" to the Western public. The third one, however, was kicked out of Syria by the Bashar al-Assad regime. Her crime? "Untrue reporting" in the form of sharing tweets containing photos and witness accounts from people in besieged Eastern Aleppo, because the regime wouldn't give her or the other journalists with her access to that part of the city.

The three women are Eva Bartlett, Vanessa Beeley and Cecilia Udden. Udden is the one who was removed from Syria by the Assad regime for her willingness to at least acknowledge the suffering of eastern Aleppo's citizens.

The first two of these women, however, call themselves independent journalists, yet post gushing photos of themselves posing with Bashar al-Assad on social media, appear on Russian state television to peddle the Assad regime's lines and travel across the United States to accuse anyone opposing Assad of being an al-Qaeda sympathiser.

Channel 4, Snopes, EA Worldview and Pulse Media and others have done thorough fact-checking debunking Bartlett in particular. There is no need to rehash their findings.

But there is a great need to address why people like Bartlett are problematic, particularly because it's not just her - Robert Fisk, Tim Anderson and pro-Palestinian "activists" such as Rania Khalek have all joined in on the whitewashing.

The problem with these regime apologists is that they claim to be journalists or academics or both - independent ones at that. Covering both sides of a story is one thing. Acquiescing to the narratives of three states wreaking havoc on civilians across Syria while doing so is another.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/12/whitewashing-assad-allies-challenged-161223135228023.html

So basically another case of Tommy being a gullible fool to the Russian, Syrian, Iranian propaganda machine

Case closed

by Tommy Monk Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:15 pm

Ahhh... snopes and the guardian say something... so it must be true...

lol!

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:30 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I posted this on 18th March...

Maybe this blaming Russia is setting up support for military action in Syria...?

With fake chemical attacks being staged by ISIS rebels as the next step...

https://www.rt.com/news/421589-us-preparing-syria-provocations-airstrikes/

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/03/17/555774/US-training-Syria-militants-for-false-flag-chemical-attacks-Russian-cmdr

If you think that the US and UK govt wouldn't use fake claims of chemical weapons attacks to try to justify military action against Syria... then just remember the illegal Iraq war over the fake 'weapons of mass destruction' claim...!!!

by Guest Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:45 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:I posted this on 18th March...

Maybe this blaming Russia is setting up support for military action in Syria...?

With fake chemical attacks being staged by ISIS rebels as the next step...

https://www.rt.com/news/421589-us-preparing-syria-provocations-airstrikes/

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/03/17/555774/US-training-Syria-militants-for-false-flag-chemical-attacks-Russian-cmdr

If you think that the US and UK govt wouldn't use fake claims of chemical weapons attacks to try to justify military action against Syria... then just remember the illegal Iraq war over the fake 'weapons of mass destruction' claim...!!!

by Guest Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:01 pm

[*]RAF listening post in Cyprus intercepted message on day of Skripal poisoning
[*]Message from Syria to Moscow contained phrase 'package has been delivered'
[*]It is believed to have been central to UK intelligence briefing shared with allies
[*]Yulia and Sergei Skripal are recovering following Novichok attack in Salisbury

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5593803/RAF-spooks-intercepted-Russian-message-Skripals-posioned.html#ixzz5CCQ0TykL
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:41 pm

Come off it Dodge...!!!

'...Message from Syria to Moscow contained phrase 'package has been delivered'...'

WTF has an alleged message from Syria to Moscow got to do with anything...!!!???

Can't you see the bullshit that is being peddled here...!?

And how the bullshit is being conflated with other bullshit for the purpose of trying to justify some illegal military action against Syria...!!!???

Have you not learned from the WMD bullshit used for starting the illegal Iraq war...!!!???

by Guest Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:55 pm

So you do basically disblieve our intelligence services Lord Haw haw

Which there was two messages they intercepted

Frankly, I am not concerned what you believe anymore Tommy, as you are without doubt a quisling.

Again our intelligence services did not lie with Saddam, it was Tony Blair

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:14 pm

Show me evidence and I will consider it on its merits...

Media spun waffle, quoting 'an unnamed source', or saying something 'was believed to may have happened' etc, will not be considered as evidence...!!!

So show me some evidence or fuk off, you treacherous weasel!!!

by Guest Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:29 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Show me evidence and I will consider it on its merits...

Media spun waffle, quoting 'an unnamed source', or saying something 'was believed to may have happened' etc, will not be considered as evidence...!!!

So show me some evidence or fuk off, you treacherous weasel!!!

lol, listen to the wetwipe quisling

I mean, lets put this to the test shall we.

Are you suggesting every Islamist terrorist attack thwarted by the intelligence services are all lies and those prosecuted and in jail, should be freed?

I mean based on your reasoning, you should also accept they must be innocent, based off your warped view on Tony Blair lying.

Second, explain to me, how countless EU nations, who have seen the evidence, have expelled Russians from their countries, even the pro Russian ones?

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:37 pm

How about... instead of waffling... show me some evidence...!!!???

by Guest Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:44 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

How about... instead of waffling... show me some evidence...!!!???

Well considering evidence has been presented to you on this thread and that we are not able to have access to all the intelligence evidence. This is a case on whether you stand by your country and back the intelligence service or you don't. The reality is, there is no reason to even believe they would be lying on this. I mean we are in the middle of a divorce from the EU, and they are 100% behind us on this. That is many nations, that have been convinced based off evidence.

Hence my points again

Are you suggesting every Islamist terrorist attack thwarted by the intelligence services are all lies and those prosecuted and in jail, should be freed?

I mean based on your reasoning, you should also accept they must be innocent, based off your warped view on Tony Blair lying. I mean I never seen you ever question, when intelligence is used to thwart terrorist attacks. Odd that and yet here, you disbelieve.

Second, explain to me, how countless EU nations, who have seen the evidence, have expelled Russians from their countries, even the pro Russian ones?

Maybe I will get an answer from you tomorrow

Night

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:26 pm

The intelligence services are accountable to the govt of the day... and both are accountable to the British people!!!

So where is the evidence...!!!???

by Guest Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:51 am

So yet again Lord Haw haw, avoids the questions

by Tommy Monk Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Didge's dodgy 'points'...

1. Are you suggesting every Islamist terrorist attack thwarted by the intelligence services are all lies and those prosecuted and in jail, should be freed?

My answer...

Firstly, that is not a 'point'... it is a stupid and irrelevant question... but I will answer it anyway...

No, I am not suggesting that at all you idiot!!!

Those terrorists in prison have each been convicted by a court of law, on the basis of overwhelming evidence against them, all the evidence being presented openly to the court for scrutiny/consideration, and all evidence open to question/challenge as well as excuses/denials from the defence lawyers... It was the EVIDENCE that proved the case against each of them...!

Now I only ask a simple question...

SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE FOR THE CLAIMS YOU SUPPORT...!!!???

2. I mean based on your reasoning, you should also accept they must be innocent, based off your warped view on Tony Blair lying. I mean I never seen you ever question, when intelligence is used to thwart terrorist attacks. Odd that and yet here, you disbelieve.

My answer...

You are basically repeating your previous 'point'... but conflating Tony Blair into it, in a strange sort of way...

I didn't believe the Blair labour govt on their WMD claim back then, and there were plenty of others in govt/parliament who didn't believe the bullshit either, as well as huge numbers of other experts who didn't believe it, plus millions of regular British people who saw it as bullshit too!!!

Blair and his govt had also claimed that there was undeniable evidence for his WMD claim... and look how that turned out...!!!

3. Second, explain to me, how countless EU nations, who have seen the evidence, have expelled Russians from their countries, even the pro Russian ones?

My answer...

Show me which countries have been allowed to see this 'evidence'...!?

AND SHOW ME THE 'EVIDENCE'!!!

BECAUSE AS FAR AS I CAN SEE... THERE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR ANY OF IT...!!!

Think about it... the media are saying that it is thought that a highly deadly nerve agent was smeared on the Skirpals front door... but the Skirpals were away from house for hours before suffering any alleged ill effects... plus there were numerous police etc at the house, in and out the door after the Skirpals became 'ill'... but only one of these police allegedly became 'ill' too...

And he was ok after a few days... and Skirpals both ok now too...!

So... this so called highly deadly nerve agent wasn't much of a highly deadly nerve agent at all really, was it...!!!???

The whole thing stinks!!!

And everybody knows it!!!

by Tommy Monk Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:39 am

by Guest Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:06 am

lol, so based on the first question, you believe the evidence that has been used to detain and convict people, without ever seeing the evidence, correct?

So the question remains exactly the same and thus you must think all the intelligence used to convict Islamists, must all be bullshit, correct?

So you then failed to explain why all the EU and thew US believes the evidence, you are not ever going to see in your lifetime.

Hence you wont ever see the evidence and neither will I, yet you back what some cronies in Russia claim, you back what some mass murderer claims. You will see part of this evidence, being the victims for a start are evidence, as is all the other evidence presented on here.

Now you and other useless idiots do not want to believe this, because, Tommy, you support Assad and Putin, over your own Governement

Because you are a quisling and that is proven by your answers above

So you evaded answer number 1 and 3 and your only view to not believe is on a Labour governement

Wow

by Tommy Monk Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:55 pm

More dodgy bullshit...

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