Five year old dies after Dr refused to see her because she was 5 minutes late for her emergency appointment.

by Syl Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:33 pm

First topic message reminder :

I truly don't know how that Dr can come to terms with this.

" A five-year-old girl with life-threatening asthma died after being turned away from an emergency doctor's appointment because she was late, an inquest heard.
Ellie-May Clark arrived at The Grange Clinic in Newport, south Wales, five minutes after her emergency appointment at 5pm on January 25 in 2015, her mother said.
She was booked in to see Doctor Joanne Rowe, a partner in the surgery and its lead for child safeguarding, as she was wheezing and unable to walk.
Ellie-May and her mother, Shanice Clark, waited in line to see receptionist Ann Jones and reached the front of the queue between 5.10 and 5.18pm.
Dr Rowe had a "10-minute rule", where she would not see patients who arrived more than 10 minutes after their appointments, and refused to see Ellie-May as she was late, an inquest heard."

Five year old dies after Dr refused to see her because she was 5 minutes late for her emergency appointment. - Page 2 TELEMMGLPICT000155672855_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bq9QCrpq9HE-XP9hNGnDAsy_Qp7wt2XeA3x-cw0-s_G7c

Five year old dies after Dr refused to see her because she was 5 minutes late for her emergency appointment. - Page 2 TELEMMGLPICT000155672855_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bq9QCrpq9HE-XP9hNGnDAsy_Qp7wt2XeA3x-cw0-s_G7c

Read the full story.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/26/five-year-old-girl-died-gp-turned-away-five-minutes-late-appointment/

by Guest Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:10 pm

Only Tommy would yet again come out with speculation based on attacking the mother based off zero evidence and clearly not reading the article either.

If she had done as you stated and called 999, when not seen by the GP. They would have refered her to speak to a GP within one hour, because at that point she was wheezy. As she is often with her condition. At that point it was not life threatening and as seen has been treated often with steroids. An ambulance will only attend if the child is struggling to breath. Which signs of this would be unable to speak in a full sentence, the chest and stomach prominantly being sucked in and out. Just because a mother carries their upset child, does not mean that child is unable to walk due to their asthma, again you making things up. She is clearly carrying her, because she is upset. The fact you think a mother with an 8 week old baby and a sick daughter has time to watch TV, shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

As seen a few days previous she was off school and wheezy and seen the GP later. She did not require going tot he Hospital. If everytime people went to A&E when wheezy, the hospitals would simple not be able to cope.

The fact that you look to the mother, when she did the right thing and called the GP, where the GP is at fault shows what a complete wanker you are.

She is not under trial, the GP is

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:44 am

From the op...

'...she was wheezing and unable to walk...'

That was 3.00pm... the child is dead because the mother failed to get child to hospital for emergency treatment for several hours after this time...

What was stopping the mother going to A&E or ringing ambulance for 5 hours after turning up late to GP appointment...?

The mother is adamant that the child needed treatment, and that it would have saved childs life... so why not get to hospital after missing GP appointment...?

The girl died 5 hours after missing GP appointment... that's 5 hours where the mother could/should have been bothered enough to get the child to hospital...!!!

One simple 999 call... but no...

by veya_victaous Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:51 am

Tommy Monk wrote:From the op...

'...she was wheezing and unable to walk...'

That was 3.00pm... the child is dead because the mother failed to get child to hospital for emergency treatment for several hours after this time...

What was stopping the mother going to A&E or ringing ambulance for 5 hours after turning up late to GP appointment...?

The mother is adamant that the child needed treatment, and that it would have saved childs life... so why not get to hospital after missing GP appointment...?

The girl died 5 hours after missing GP appointment... that's 5 hours where the mother could/should have been bothered enough to get the child to hospital...!!!

One simple 999 call... but no...

I agree with Tommy Five year old dies after Dr refused to see her because she was 5 minutes late for her emergency appointment. - Page 2 1363015401

by Guest Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:26 am

The child was turned away from an emergency appoint ment and thus treatment with steroids

Why would the mother go to A&E, when clearly it was not as serious as other times when the child has gone to A&E. The point you overlook and fail to understand with asthmatics. I have no doubt the mother would have taken her, if she thought her breathing was as poor as when she had been admitted through A&E. Being wheezy does not warrant going to the hospital. Its only when this worsens like when steroid do not help ease the asthma and even worse to the point, your oxygen stats fall below 90%. Which when this happens, you will be unable to speak in full sentences and the chest and stomach will prominantly be sucked in with every breath

The child suffers continued athsma bouts, many of which do not receive emergency treatment at A&E

Many asthmatics do need treatment when inhalers are not calming the wheezing. This though again does not mean you go to A&E. As its not an emergency. You should only, if this continues to worsen. Even calling 999 when its worsening will not get you an ambulance. As they will attend if you are struggling to breath.

You forget the mother has taken the child to A&E before and thus knows when the breathing is poor that she should attend.

This is why the mother is not being blamed in the inquest by idiots that have no idea what they are talking about. Only Horatio knows what she is talking about and is not claiming the mother was watching TV. Again I agree with points she made and disagree on somen, but again, we do not know the extent of the wheezying at the time the child was taken to the GP

The child came home and went bed at 8pm. Clearly the breathing did not warrant emergency treatment. The mother was also administering her inhaler every half an hour when she checked up on her.

At 10:30 she heard her daughter coughing and found her face and hands blue and called emergency services.

Again, if you want to put this to the test Tommy
Phone 999, say you have a history of asthma, you are wheezying and your inhalers are not helping and want an ambulance. Say you have been admitted to A&E before and that steroid always have helped the problem. But the breathing is not as bad as when admitted to A&E before. They will not ask but see if you can speak in a full sentence, which you can when wheezy. They will ask you questions on the above which is relevant to this case

Phone them and see what they say, or phone 111.
I gurantee you they will tell you need to speak to a GP within an hour

The mother did phone the GP and was turned away and then took her daughter home, where she has had days wheezy before and not had to go to A&E

by Guest Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:52 am

Just to show this was ongoing and the mother was clearly not at fault:

Guardian wrote:Recording a narrative conclusion, the Gwent coroner, Wendy James, said: “It is not possible for me to determine with certainty whether an earlier intervention would have altered the outcome for Ellie, but nonetheless Ellie should have been seen by a GP that day and she was let down by the failures in the system.

“Ellie-May Clark died of natural causes where the opportunity to provide potentially life-saving treatment was missed.”

The coroner added: “Ellie’s care was disjointed. There was no one doctor or clinician allocated to oversee Ellie’s long-term management or care even though she suffered with a life-threatening condition.

She was dealt with by three doctors in the surgery in five days. Had she been seen by one doctor, things maybe been different for Ellie.

“It is unacceptable that patients should be refused to be seen at an emergency appointment without any clinical assessment of their condition or any advice given. Especially when that patient is a five-year old child with a history of severe acute asthma.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/feb/26/ellie-may-clark-asthma-died-after-newport-clinic-doctor-turned-her-away-emergency-appointment-inquest-hears

This is the most shocking part, that no plan was put in place. Also the doctors not checking the fact she this was the 3rd visit in 5 days.

I see the Nurse practitioner every 6 months, where also can call and ask to have a GP call me back if my asthma is poor. This leads to a prescription being left for me to pick up for steroids.

The fact she was seen by 3 doctors in 5 days, shows it was the system and doctors at fault here.

Always good to check other sources.

Hence the mother did the right thing each time and the surgery and doctors let her down

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:41 pm

From the op...

'...she was wheezing and unable to walk...'

That was 3.00pm... the child is dead because the mother failed to get child to hospital for emergency treatment for several hours after this time...

The mother didn't do the right thing... if she had taken child to hospital after missing GP appointment then girl would have most likely survived...

by Guest Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:45 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:From the op...

'...she was wheezing and unable to walk...'

That was 3.00pm... the child is dead because the mother failed to get child to hospital for emergency treatment for several hours after this time...

The mother didn't do the right thing... if she had taken child to hospital after missing GP appointment then girl would have most likely survived...

Still not able to have a clue on this.

At times I find it difficult to walk when wheezy. This is even more scary for a child. Does not mean I need to go to A&E

Also the mother never claimed that, the Telegraph did

All the mother said is she carried her due to her being upset.

Again she had episodes of wheezing over 5 days

At no point was her breathing bad enough for the doctors to warrant her being admitted to hospital.
Where they failed is in preventative mesaures as seen

The fact you are still looking to blame the mother and even after you made up crap, as if claiming the mother did not care, wanting to watch TV and be on facebook. When as seen she took her child to the doctors constantly and knew when her breathing was bad by the fact she had been to the hospital in the past. For one shows you are clueless on this and also a complete twat

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:17 pm

After the mother was late for GP appointment, the child still needed treatment... right?

So what should the mother have done to get treatment...?

a) Get child to hospital?

b) Seek medical treatment elsewhere?

c) Give up on trying to get treatment, and go home?

I know what I would have done...

by Guest Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:30 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:After the mother was late for GP appointment, the child still needed treatment... right?

So what should the mother have done to get treatment...?

a) Get child to hospital?

b) Seek medical treatment elsewhere?

c) Give up on trying to get treatment, and go home?

I know what I would have done...

The child had seen the GP twice in 5 days.

This was the third day

Hence the GP should have ensured preventative action

It failed to do that.

The problem with your answer is that it does not understand asthma

Again, on the previous four days she had time off school and was wheezy and did not need to attend A&E or the hospital

Asthma can escalulate. That is why the Surgery needs to have a plan in place for the patient.
What is aggrevating her asthma?
Is she allergic to anything like animals, dust mite ect?

In many years the GP had not done tests (in my opinion) or had a preventative plan in place.

Now on the previous visits to the doctor it is evident she was not given a weeks course of steroids.

This is usually what is prescribed by a GP if wheezing persists and worsening. And as seen what she thought she would be given.

So what you should be asking is whether the child needed medication on the previous two visits and if they did not prescribe. Then what would the mother think, if they deemed it not necessary?

She could of course have a second opinion, but that also happen, as the second time was with another GP

So why have you not ask did she not attend A&E on the four previous days when the child was wheezy?

The simple answer, is that the doctors did not believe her asthma was worsening

The mother eithers takes the advice of the doctors or not.

She went back for a third time and clearly was going to wait another day, when she had already been through 5 days of this.

The problem with you Tommy here, is simple and what others are making the mistake of.

They see that the child later died and you argue off hindsight. When as seen most people wheezy do not need to attend A&E

Clearly being as the child was off school and had gone back to school. She clearly was better that morning.

The fact later that day she was wheezy again after school, does not automatically mean she required to attend A&E. Like i say, if she had rang 111 or 999 they would have advised to speak to a GP within one hour.
She did this and why the system falls down, as the doctor did not examine the child.

This condition had being going on for 3 years, so why would she suddenlly feel the need to attend A&E, when this bhad been going on and off for 5 days? When she has seen before her child in hospital many times? It means the severity of her breathing was clearly not as bad as had been when she had been admitted to hospital. What the mother and nobody would suspect would happen, actually did end up happenning. Its also possible the doctor refusing to see the child and upseting the child, could have stressed the child, which later made the asthma worse.

Its very clear the surgery did not take seriously enough the nature of her asthma

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:23 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:After the mother was late for GP appointment, the child still needed treatment... right?

So what should the mother have done to get treatment...?

a) Get child to hospital?

b) Seek medical treatment elsewhere?

c) Give up on trying to get treatment, and go home?

I know what I would have done...

The child had previously had admissions to hospital for the condition, so condition was high risk level of seriousness, so any bouts of the condition occurring should have been considered by the mother as having the potential of quickly developing into a life threatening situation, so the mother should have gone to the hospital after missing GP appointment... not just gone home, having given up on getting child looked at and getting the treatment/medication that child clearly needed... it's as simple as that!!!

by Guest Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:31 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:After the mother was late for GP appointment, the child still needed treatment... right?

So what should the mother have done to get treatment...?

a) Get child to hospital?

b) Seek medical treatment elsewhere?

c) Give up on trying to get treatment, and go home?

I know what I would have done...

The child had previously had admissions to hospital for the condition, so condition was high risk level of seriousness, so any bouts of the condition occurring should have been considered by the mother as having the potential of quickly developing into a life threatening situation, so the mother should have gone to the hospital after missing GP appointment... not just gone home, having given up on getting child looked at and getting the treatment/medication that child clearly needed... it's as simple as that!!!

So why was she not admitted with everytime she had any bouts of wheezing?

That would mean she would be constantly in hospital her entire life

In other words, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Again your whole position is based off hindsight, that sadly this did escalate and that she died.

At no point, did they prescribe her a course of steroids

At no point over the 5 days, and actually seeing two doctors, did they have her admitted to the hospital.

So why are you not asking why the GP's, 3 of them, did not consider she should have been admitted to the hospital?

You then saying the mother should have done, when she is not medically trained and has been dealing with the surgery, since her daughter has had this condition? Like i say, your arguments are weak, and fail to even fault the GP's. 3 of them

Seriously?

Do you not see how dumb your argument is?

Most people take the advice of the GP and rightly so. Yet in this case the GP's made many errors

So its not as simple as that. What is only simple, is your attempts to understand any of this

I see you failed to answer a single point

The whole point of preventative action is to ensure people do not need constant hospital admission

Try again

The child had seen the GP twice in 5 days.

This was the third day

Hence the GP should have ensured preventative action

It failed to do that.

The problem with your answer is that it does not understand asthma

Again, on the previous four days she had time off school and was wheezy and did not need to attend A&E or the hospital

Asthma can escalulate. That is why the Surgery needs to have a plan in place for the patient.
What is aggrevating her asthma?
Is she allergic to anything like animals, dust mite ect?

In many years the GP had not done tests (in my opinion) or had a preventative plan in place.

Now on the previous visits to the doctor it is evident she was not given a weeks course of steroids.

This is usually what is prescribed by a GP if wheezing persists and worsening. And as seen what she thought she would be given.

So what you should be asking is whether the child needed medication on the previous two visits and if they did not prescribe. Then what would the mother think, if they deemed it not necessary?

She could of course have a second opinion, but that also happen, as the second time was with another GP

So why have you not ask did she not attend A&E on the four previous days when the child was wheezy?

The simple answer, is that the doctors did not believe her asthma was worsening

The mother eithers takes the advice of the doctors or not.

She went back for a third time and clearly was going to wait another day, when she had already been through 5 days of this.

The problem with you Tommy here, is simple and what others are making the mistake of.

They see that the child later died and you argue off hindsight. When as seen most people wheezy do not need to attend A&E

Clearly being as the child was off school and had gone back to school. She clearly was better that morning.

The fact later that day she was wheezy again after school, does not automatically mean she required to attend A&E. Like i say, if she had rang 111 or 999 they would have advised to speak to a GP within one hour.
She did this and why the system falls down, as the doctor did not examine the child.

This condition had being going on for 3 years, so why would she suddenlly feel the need to attend A&E, when this bhad been going on and off for 5 days? When she has seen before her child in hospital many times? It means the severity of her breathing was clearly not as bad as had been when she had been admitted to hospital. What the mother and nobody would suspect would happen, actually did end up happenning. Its also possible the doctor refusing to see the child and upseting the child, could have stressed the child, which later made the asthma worse.

Its very clear the surgery did not take seriously enough the nature of her asthma

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:47 pm

Your wall of waffle doesn't change anything...

The child needed treatment...

The mother should not have given up trying to get medical attention for the child, after missing GP appointment...

In fact, she should have kicked up enough of a fuss at the GP surgery, to get the child seen there first...

And if that didn't work... gone straight to the A&E (or whatever specialist hospital the child had been before if different to A&E hospital)...

If it was my child... I would have done everything possible, as quickly as possible, to get medical attention... no matter where I had to go, or what I had to do...!!!

There is no way on earth that I would have given up at the GPs... but I wouldn't have been late getting there in the first place!!!

Not only that... but if my child had been poorly with asthma and trouble breathing for a few days, and had already been seen by a GP a couple times during that time, and symptoms persisted after meds prescribed, I wouldn't even be bothering with the GPs... especially if child had already previously been hospitalised for the condition... I would be straight up the hospital with child!!!

by Guest Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:03 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Your wall of waffle doesn't change anything...
Didge wrote:My reasoning made you look completely inept as seen
The child needed treatment...
Didge wrote:Why did the child not need treatment on two seperate occasions with the two different GP's?

Was this down to the fact she was simple wheezy?

Was it down to the fact they did not take the severity of her condition?

How then could the mother be to blame, taking the advice of two seperate GP's that had been treating her daughter for the last couple of years?

The mother should not have given up trying to get medical attention for the child, after missing GP appointment...
Didge wrote:Based on what reasoning?
You have no understanding here and only going off the fact she did later die?
Why are you again ignoring the fact this had been going on over the last 5 days?
Or the fact this had been ongoing for 3 years
Is she suddenlly supposed to be an expert, or take the opinions of the seperate GP's?

In fact, she should have kicked up enough of a fuss at the GP surgery, to get the child seen there first...
Didge wrote:So according to the retard who falsely claim the mother did not care for her daughter, even though she took her to the GP 3 times. That she should have kicked up a fuss.
I thought she did reading the testimony did she not?
How can you force a doctor to see her?
After this being the third visit and her being on and off wheezy over 5 days

And if that didn't work... gone straight to the A&E (or whatever specialist hospital the child had been before if different to A&E hospital)...
Didge wrote:Based on what medical reasoning?
That you know in hindsight she later died?
I want to know from you, why you think she should have gone to A&E, based on you not knowing she later died and she was only wheezy?
Show me anywhere, what doctor would advise that any asthmatic should always attend A&E when they are wheezy and not struggling to breath?
At no point does the coroner blame the mother, but you do and even worse you made up crap claim the mother did not care.That says everything in why you are a twat
If it was my child... I would have done everything possible, as quickly as possible, to get medical attention... no matter where I had to go, or what I had to do...!!!
Didge wrote:You have never raised a child or had one, let alone understand what its like to be asthmatic.
Showing you would have no idea what you would do

There is no way on earth that I would have given up at the GPs... but I wouldn't have been late getting there in the first place!!!
Didge wrote:So again, why would the mother think she even needed emergency care?
An emergency appointment is not the same as needing A&E emergency needs
She had seen the GP twice before this and at no point did the GP's advice she be admitted to the Hospital
Why are you not questioning this?
Why are you not questioning over what they did or not advise to the mother?
You think that anytime someone is wheezy, they should force being seen and she has that right. What you are claiming is that people should always fight their case. That is not understanding humans you dick
At no point over the last 5 days and seeing two doctors was she needed to be admitted to the hospital
This you ignore
Not only that... but if my child had been poorly with asthma and trouble breathing for a few days, and had already been seen by a GP a couple times during that time, and symptoms persisted after meds prescribed, I wouldn't even be bothering with the GPs... especially if child had already previously been hospitalised for the condition... I would be straight up the hospital with child!!!

So this is based on your fantasy?
The mother had dealt with this ongoing problem with 3 years.
So do you not think she would have a better idea on what to do than you?

Seriously?

Being on and off wheezy does not warrant hospital admission

What is needed is preventative measures in place and none of this was done and at no point do you condemn the surgery, who by inquest has been guilty.
This is why I do not take I think you are nothing more than a hateful fuckwit

The law disagrees with you

So how on earth can you claim to say what you would do, when you have never known what its like to face this or even go through this 3 years with your own child, trusting doctors?

It shows you are talking the utter most bullshit

Now try again

So why was she not admitted with everytime she had any bouts of wheezing?

That would mean she would be constantly in hospital her entire life

In other words, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Again your whole position is based off hindsight, that sadly this did escalate and that she died.

At no point, did they prescribe her a course of steroids

At no point over the 5 days, and actually seeing two doctors, did they have her admitted to the hospital.

So why are you not asking why the GP's, 3 of them, did not consider she should have been admitted to the hospital?

You then saying the mother should have done, when she is not medically trained and has been dealing with the surgery, since her daughter has had this condition? Like i say, your arguments are weak, and fail to even fault the GP's. 3 of them

Seriously?

Do you not see how dumb your argument is?

Most people take the advice of the GP and rightly so. Yet in this case the GP's made many errors

So its not as simple as that. What is only simple, is your attempts to understand any of this

I see you failed to answer a single point

The whole point of preventative action is to ensure people do not need constant hospital admission

Try again

The child had seen the GP twice in 5 days.

This was the third day

Hence the GP should have ensured preventative action

It failed to do that.

The problem with your answer is that it does not understand asthma

Again, on the previous four days she had time off school and was wheezy and did not need to attend A&E or the hospital

Asthma can escalulate. That is why the Surgery needs to have a plan in place for the patient.
What is aggrevating her asthma?
Is she allergic to anything like animals, dust mite ect?

In many years the GP had not done tests (in my opinion) or had a preventative plan in place.

Now on the previous visits to the doctor it is evident she was not given a weeks course of steroids.

This is usually what is prescribed by a GP if wheezing persists and worsening. And as seen what she thought she would be given.

So what you should be asking is whether the child needed medication on the previous two visits and if they did not prescribe. Then what would the mother think, if they deemed it not necessary?

She could of course have a second opinion, but that also happen, as the second time was with another GP

So why have you not ask did she not attend A&E on the four previous days when the child was wheezy?

The simple answer, is that the doctors did not believe her asthma was worsening

The mother eithers takes the advice of the doctors or not.

She went back for a third time and clearly was going to wait another day, when she had already been through 5 days of this.

The problem with you Tommy here, is simple and what others are making the mistake of.

They see that the child later died and you argue off hindsight. When as seen most people wheezy do not need to attend A&E

Clearly being as the child was off school and had gone back to school. She clearly was better that morning.

The fact later that day she was wheezy again after school, does not automatically mean she required to attend A&E. Like i say, if she had rang 111 or 999 they would have advised to speak to a GP within one hour.
She did this and why the system falls down, as the doctor did not examine the child.

This condition had being going on for 3 years, so why would she suddenlly feel the need to attend A&E, when this bhad been going on and off for 5 days? When she has seen before her child in hospital many times? It means the severity of her breathing was clearly not as bad as had been when she had been admitted to hospital. What the mother and nobody would suspect would happen, actually did end up happenning. Its also possible the doctor refusing to see the child and upseting the child, could have stressed the child, which later made the asthma worse.

Its very clear the surgery did not take seriously enough the nature of her asthma

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:32 pm

If the childs condition was serious enough to warrant taking her to GPs, for an emergency appointment... and child wasn't seen because mother arrived too late... then the childs condition hasn't changed, it is still serious enough to warrant taking her somewhere else where she could get the medical attention she needed...!!!

The mother was in charge of the child... it was her choice to either seek medical attention elsewhere... or not to bother...

She chose not to bother... she chose to abandon pursuit of medical attention elsewhere... she chose to just give up and go home, and hope for the best... resulting in child dying at home 5 hours later...

I would have been straight up the hospital...

by Guest Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:39 pm

Didge wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Your wall of waffle doesn't change anything...

The child needed treatment...

The mother should not have given up trying to get medical attention for the child, after missing GP appointment...

In fact, she should have kicked up enough of a fuss at the GP surgery, to get the child seen there first...

And if that didn't work... gone straight to the A&E (or whatever specialist hospital the child had been before if different to A&E hospital)...

If it was my child... I would have done everything possible, as quickly as possible, to get medical attention... no matter where I had to go, or what I had to do...!!!

There is no way on earth that I would have given up at the GPs... but I wouldn't have been late getting there in the first place!!!

Not only that... but if my child had been poorly with asthma and trouble breathing for a few days, and had already been seen by a GP a couple times during that time, and symptoms persisted after meds prescribed, I wouldn't even be bothering with the GPs... especially if child had already previously been hospitalised for the condition... I would be straight up the hospital with child!!!
So this is based on your fantasy?
The mother had dealt with this ongoing problem with 3 years.
So do you not think she would have a better idea on what to do than you?

Seriously?

Being on and off wheezy does not warrant hospital admission

What is needed is preventative measures in place and none of this was done and at no point do you condemn the surgery, who by inquest has been guilty.
This is why I do not take I think you are nothing more than a hateful fuckwit

The law disagrees with you

So how on earth can you claim to say what you would do, when you have never known what its like to face this or even go through this 3 years with your own child, trusting doctors?

It shows you are talking the utter most bullshit

Now try again

So why was she not admitted with everytime she had any bouts of wheezing?

That would mean she would be constantly in hospital her entire life

In other words, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Again your whole position is based off hindsight, that sadly this did escalate and that she died.

At no point, did they prescribe her a course of steroids

At no point over the 5 days, and actually seeing two doctors, did they have her admitted to the hospital.

So why are you not asking why the GP's, 3 of them, did not consider she should have been admitted to the hospital?

You then saying the mother should have done, when she is not medically trained and has been dealing with the surgery, since her daughter has had this condition? Like i say, your arguments are weak, and fail to even fault the GP's. 3 of them

Seriously?

Do you not see how dumb your argument is?

Most people take the advice of the GP and rightly so. Yet in this case the GP's made many errors

So its not as simple as that. What is only simple, is your attempts to understand any of this

I see you failed to answer a single point

The whole point of preventative action is to ensure people do not need constant hospital admission

Try again

The child had seen the GP twice in 5 days.

This was the third day

Hence the GP should have ensured preventative action

It failed to do that.

The problem with your answer is that it does not understand asthma

Again, on the previous four days she had time off school and was wheezy and did not need to attend A&E or the hospital

Asthma can escalulate. That is why the Surgery needs to have a plan in place for the patient.
What is aggrevating her asthma?
Is she allergic to anything like animals, dust mite ect?

In many years the GP had not done tests (in my opinion) or had a preventative plan in place.

Now on the previous visits to the doctor it is evident she was not given a weeks course of steroids.

This is usually what is prescribed by a GP if wheezing persists and worsening. And as seen what she thought she would be given.

So what you should be asking is whether the child needed medication on the previous two visits and if they did not prescribe. Then what would the mother think, if they deemed it not necessary?

She could of course have a second opinion, but that also happen, as the second time was with another GP

So why have you not ask did she not attend A&E on the four previous days when the child was wheezy?

The simple answer, is that the doctors did not believe her asthma was worsening

The mother eithers takes the advice of the doctors or not.

She went back for a third time and clearly was going to wait another day, when she had already been through 5 days of this.

The problem with you Tommy here, is simple and what others are making the mistake of.

They see that the child later died and you argue off hindsight. When as seen most people wheezy do not need to attend A&E

Clearly being as the child was off school and had gone back to school. She clearly was better that morning.

The fact later that day she was wheezy again after school, does not automatically mean she required to attend A&E. Like i say, if she had rang 111 or 999 they would have advised to speak to a GP within one hour.
She did this and why the system falls down, as the doctor did not examine the child.

This condition had being going on for 3 years, so why would she suddenlly feel the need to attend A&E, when this bhad been going on and off for 5 days? When she has seen before her child in hospital many times? It means the severity of her breathing was clearly not as bad as had been when she had been admitted to hospital. What the mother and nobody would suspect would happen, actually did end up happenning. Its also possible the doctor refusing to see the child and upseting the child, could have stressed the child, which later made the asthma worse.

Its very clear the surgery did not take seriously enough the nature of her asthma

You are just repeating yourself Tommy and failing to answer every point I make to you and even worse wait till I am off line

So based on your view on serious enough to take to the gp and being she had been twice in 5 days

How is that a case that its serious enough for A&E you fuckwit?

Is a cold serious enough after seeing two doctors, warrants A&E?

Why had not anyone laid claim to your bullshit speculative claims?

Do you know why Tommy?

Because they are full of shit

You are claiming a civillian should be a medical expert on a condition which varies with every person

NOt only are you an idiot, but no lawyer would even take up your idiot claim she was to blame, not even the defense lawyer for the GP's

What does that say for your idiotic invented bullshit you claim?

Its why you have avoided every single point I raised to you

Now either take up my claims, or punch yourself in the face until you see you are a complete retard?

If I met you and I was the mothers friend, I would take a baseball bat to you

and I am not joking, being as I have been in prison before taking out scum like you

That is how I think you are that much of a scum bag

Laughing

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:45 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

If the childs condition was serious enough to warrant taking her to GPs, for an emergency appointment... and child wasn't seen because mother arrived too late... then the childs condition hasn't changed, it is still serious enough to warrant taking her somewhere else where she could get the medical attention she needed...!!!

The mother was in charge of the child... it was her choice to either seek medical attention elsewhere... or not to bother...

She chose not to bother... she chose to abandon pursuit of medical attention elsewhere... she chose to just give up and go home, and hope for the best... resulting in child dying at home 5 hours later...

I would have been straight up the hospital...

by Guest Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:47 pm

Didge wrote:
Didge wrote:
So this is based on your fantasy?
The mother had dealt with this ongoing problem with 3 years.
So do you not think she would have a better idea on what to do than you?

Seriously?

Being on and off wheezy does not warrant hospital admission

What is needed is preventative measures in place and none of this was done and at no point do you condemn the surgery, who by inquest has been guilty.
This is why I do not take I think you are nothing more than a hateful fuckwit

The law disagrees with you

So how on earth can you claim to say what you would do, when you have never known what its like to face this or even go through this 3 years with your own child, trusting doctors?

It shows you are talking the utter most bullshit

Now try again

So why was she not admitted with everytime she had any bouts of wheezing?

That would mean she would be constantly in hospital her entire life

In other words, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Again your whole position is based off hindsight, that sadly this did escalate and that she died.

At no point, did they prescribe her a course of steroids

At no point over the 5 days, and actually seeing two doctors, did they have her admitted to the hospital.

So why are you not asking why the GP's, 3 of them, did not consider she should have been admitted to the hospital?

You then saying the mother should have done, when she is not medically trained and has been dealing with the surgery, since her daughter has had this condition? Like i say, your arguments are weak, and fail to even fault the GP's. 3 of them

Seriously?

Do you not see how dumb your argument is?

Most people take the advice of the GP and rightly so. Yet in this case the GP's made many errors

So its not as simple as that. What is only simple, is your attempts to understand any of this

I see you failed to answer a single point

The whole point of preventative action is to ensure people do not need constant hospital admission

Try again

The child had seen the GP twice in 5 days.

This was the third day

Hence the GP should have ensured preventative action

It failed to do that.

The problem with your answer is that it does not understand asthma

Again, on the previous four days she had time off school and was wheezy and did not need to attend A&E or the hospital

Asthma can escalulate. That is why the Surgery needs to have a plan in place for the patient.
What is aggrevating her asthma?
Is she allergic to anything like animals, dust mite ect?

In many years the GP had not done tests (in my opinion) or had a preventative plan in place.

Now on the previous visits to the doctor it is evident she was not given a weeks course of steroids.

This is usually what is prescribed by a GP if wheezing persists and worsening. And as seen what she thought she would be given.

So what you should be asking is whether the child needed medication on the previous two visits and if they did not prescribe. Then what would the mother think, if they deemed it not necessary?

She could of course have a second opinion, but that also happen, as the second time was with another GP

So why have you not ask did she not attend A&E on the four previous days when the child was wheezy?

The simple answer, is that the doctors did not believe her asthma was worsening

The mother eithers takes the advice of the doctors or not.

She went back for a third time and clearly was going to wait another day, when she had already been through 5 days of this.

The problem with you Tommy here, is simple and what others are making the mistake of.

They see that the child later died and you argue off hindsight. When as seen most people wheezy do not need to attend A&E

Clearly being as the child was off school and had gone back to school. She clearly was better that morning.

The fact later that day she was wheezy again after school, does not automatically mean she required to attend A&E. Like i say, if she had rang 111 or 999 they would have advised to speak to a GP within one hour.
She did this and why the system falls down, as the doctor did not examine the child.

This condition had being going on for 3 years, so why would she suddenlly feel the need to attend A&E, when this bhad been going on and off for 5 days? When she has seen before her child in hospital many times? It means the severity of her breathing was clearly not as bad as had been when she had been admitted to hospital. What the mother and nobody would suspect would happen, actually did end up happenning. Its also possible the doctor refusing to see the child and upseting the child, could have stressed the child, which later made the asthma worse.

Its very clear the surgery did not take seriously enough the nature of her asthma

You are just repeating yourself Tommy and failing to answer every point I make to you and even worse wait till I am off line

So based on your view on serious enough to take to the gp and being she had been twice in 5 days

How is that a case that its serious enough for A&E you fuckwit?

Is a cold serious enough after seeing two doctors, warrants A&E?

Why had not anyone laid claim to your bullshit speculative claims?

Do you know why Tommy?

Because they are full of shit

You are claiming a civillian should be a medical expert on a condition which varies with every person

NOt only are you an idiot, but no lawyer would even take up your idiot claim she was to blame, not even the defense lawyer for the GP's

What does that say for your idiotic invented bullshit you claim?

Its why you have avoided every single point I raised to you

Now either take up my claims, or punch yourself in the face until you see you are a complete retard?

If I met you and I was the mothers friend, I would take a baseball bat to you

and I am not joking, being as I have been in prison before taking out scum like you

That is how I think you are that much of a scum bag

Tommy shitting his pants it seems

How many posts has he failed to answer?

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:05 pm

One thing you are right about, is that the mother is not a medical expert...

So she should have gone to hospital after missing GP appointment... to seek expert medical attention...!

Although you also try to argue that the mother knows best, having dealt with childs condition for years...

When in reality... given the childs medical history, and the mothers knowledge of it... she will have been made well aware of the seriousness of condition, and would have known that she should have taken child to hospital...!!!

by Guest Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:10 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:One thing you are right about, is that the mother is not a medical expert...

So she should have gone to hospital after missing GP appointment... to seek expert medical attention...!

Although you also try to argue that the mother knows best, having dealt with childs condition for years...

When in reality... given the childs medical history, and the mothers knowledge of it... she will have been made well aware of the seriousness of condition, and would have known that she should have taken child to hospital...!!!

Really?

Why should she do so when this had been going on 5 days? and that she had seen two doctors?

About 3 people die a day so how on earth could she been aware of its seriousness when over 5 million people suffer with asthma?

Hence you are talking in hindisght, talking shit and not backed up by any law

The mother did what was best based on what was taught to her

How then can she be at fault?

by Guest Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:28 pm

Some facts on asthma Tommy

Many children have asthma and yet more adults die with asthma

https://www.asthma.org.uk/about/media/facts-and-statistics/

by magica Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:32 am

Blaming the mother can't be as bad as her blaming herself.

She has to live with this. Rights and wrongs won't bring her little girl back, I feel sorry for her.

by Syl Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:41 pm

magica wrote:Blaming the mother can't be as bad as her blaming herself.

She has to live with this. Rights and wrongs won't bring her little girl back, I feel sorry for her.

She will never get over it.
Its the Drs actions that are under investigation not the mothers, who only acted in her daughters best interest at the time.

She had to queue at the surgery to be checked in, that made her over 10 minutes late, which is a ridiculous rule anyway when you are dealing with a child who has an emergency appointment.

She did 'kick up a fuss' when told the Dr would not see the child, this upset the child, so like most caring parents who could see their already poorly child getting upset...she shut up. She agreed to bring the child back the next day.

The little girl was poorly, but not as far as the mother knew dangerously so. She had visited the surgery many times and been given the appropriate drugs the girl needed in between hospital appointments, she was in the right place at that time, had the child been seen she would have received the drugs she needed. Had the Dr decided the girl was more serious than first thought, she would have fast tracked her to A&E.

We regularly are being told to NOT go to A&E unless we are at deaths door, to phone your Dr or drop in centre ....whereas at one time people turned up at A&E rather than go to a Dr, that is strongly discouraged now.....the mother didn't know her daughter would get dangerously ill 51/2 hours later....indeed, if the Dr had seen her instead of being so damned arrogant, it's likely the girl wouldn't have died so suddenly.

by Guest Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:From the op...

'...she was wheezing and unable to walk...'

That was 3.00pm... the child is dead because the mother failed to get child to hospital for emergency treatment for several hours after this time...

The mother didn't do the right thing... if she had taken child to hospital after missing GP appointment then girl would have most likely survived...

this exact same thing happened to me with my daughter. Got there just a few minutes too late and was told loftily that she wouldnt be seen.

I said ''ok, I will let her rest here while I call for an ambulance. I will however have to let them know that I am calling them from a doctor's surgery and am requesting an ambulance due to the fact that the doctor here has refused to see her as we were a few minutes late, despite the fact that she cannot even breathe let alone walk back home - not sure how they're gonna take that''

------------------------

she got seen within a few minutes, got given oxygen and steroids

by Syl Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:41 pm

gelico wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:From the op...

'...she was wheezing and unable to walk...'

That was 3.00pm... the child is dead because the mother failed to get child to hospital for emergency treatment for several hours after this time...

The mother didn't do the right thing... if she had taken child to hospital after missing GP appointment then girl would have most likely survived...

this exact same thing happened to me with my daughter. Got there just a few minutes too late and was told loftily that she wouldnt be seen.

I said ''ok, I will let her rest here while I call for an ambulance. I will however have to let them know that I am calling them from a doctor's surgery and am requesting an ambulance due to the fact that the doctor here has refused to see her as we were a few minutes late, despite the fact that she cannot even breathe let alone walk back home - not sure how they're gonna take that''

------------------------

she got seen within a few minutes, got given oxygen and steroids

Good for you, you did what you considered to be the right thing at the time, and your persistence paid off.

The sad thing is Dr Rowe, had no other appointments to see patients between 4.50 and 5.20, the little girl was turned away between that time.

by Tommy Monk Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:02 pm

The mother was late...

She should have either stayed at the GPs, demanding that the child was seen, and staying there until the child was seen... or she should have gone to hospital or some other emergency Dr's for medical attention...!

Considering the child had previous serious history of the condition and being hospitalised for it... the mother should not have given up on seeking medical attention...!!!

by Syl Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:29 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The mother was late...

She should have either stayed at the GPs, demanding that the child was seen, and staying there until the child was seen... or she should have gone to hospital or some other emergency Dr's for medical attention...!

Considering the child had previous serious history of the condition and being hospitalised for it... the mother should not have given up on seeking medical attention...!!!

She asked for a home visit for her daughter and shock surprise was refused. The surgery called her back and gave her an appointment for 5pm. That gave the mother 25 minutes to sort out care for her younger child and get to the surgery, she explained to th receptionist on the phone she may not get there on time.

She arrived at 5 past 5....well within the ridiculous 10 minute rule, she then had to wait till between 5.10 and 5.18 to be checked in.
The Dr she was booked in to see had no other patient appointments between 4.50 and 5.20.

"Dr Rowe did not ask the reason behind Ellie-May's emergency appointment, or look into her medical notes before refusing to see her.
She sent away a five-year-old patient from an emergency appointment without even opening her records.
"Dr Rowe agreed that when she opened the letter from the hospital, stating that Ellie-May was at risk of serious/life threatening asthma, she should have recorded that prominently on Ellie-May's clinical record."

Why do you continuously blame the mother for the doctors failings. Five year old dies after Dr refused to see her because she was 5 minutes late for her emergency appointment. - Page 2 2190311264

Five year old dies after Dr refused to see her because she was 5 minutes late for her emergency appointment. - Page 2 2190311264

by eddie Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:36 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

If she'd have taken her to A and E instead she might still be alive.

Its easy to be wise after the event.
The mother obviously didn't know her daughter would get seriously ill 5 hours later.
The Dr ...had she bothered to read the childs notes, would have been aware of this and could have either prescribed the usual drugs the child received on the other occasions she had been to the surgery, or fast tracked her to A &E if she thought that was necessary.

I'm bemused why some people cant see the Dr failed badly in her duty here ...blame the parent, is that an easier option?

I have to disagree, as the kid was taken to hospital before, so as a parent you'd err on the side of caution. Well, I would.

Exactly.
And furthermore, the mother obviously wasn’t that worried or she’d have taken her to A&E.
If she were that concerned she wouldn’t have walked the child to the GP.
If the doctor had seen the child then the child still might have died.
Did the GP KnOW what the child was there for in the first place?

The child dies hours later. Doesn’t sound like a worried mother to me.

Seems as though she’s blaming everyone but herself.

by eddie Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:38 pm

Didge wrote:
Didge wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Your wall of waffle doesn't change anything...

The child needed treatment...

The mother should not have given up trying to get medical attention for the child, after missing GP appointment...

In fact, she should have kicked up enough of a fuss at the GP surgery, to get the child seen there first...

And if that didn't work... gone straight to the A&E (or whatever specialist hospital the child had been before if different to A&E hospital)...

If it was my child... I would have done everything possible, as quickly as possible, to get medical attention... no matter where I had to go, or what I had to do...!!!

There is no way on earth that I would have given up at the GPs... but I wouldn't have been late getting there in the first place!!!

Not only that... but if my child had been poorly with asthma and trouble breathing for a few days, and had already been seen by a GP a couple times during that time, and symptoms persisted after meds prescribed, I wouldn't even be bothering with the GPs... especially if child had already previously been hospitalised for the condition... I would be straight up the hospital with child!!!
So this is based on your fantasy?
The mother had dealt with this ongoing problem with 3 years.
So do you not think she would have a better idea on what to do than you?

Seriously?

Being on and off wheezy does not warrant hospital admission

What is needed is preventative measures in place and none of this was done and at no point do you condemn the surgery, who by inquest has been guilty.
This is why I do not take I think you are nothing more than a hateful fuckwit

The law disagrees with you

So how on earth can you claim to say what you would do, when you have never known what its like to face this or even go through this 3 years with your own child, trusting doctors?

It shows you are talking the utter most bullshit

Now try again

So why was she not admitted with everytime she had any bouts of wheezing?

That would mean she would be constantly in hospital her entire life

In other words, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Again your whole position is based off hindsight, that sadly this did escalate and that she died.

At no point, did they prescribe her a course of steroids

At no point over the 5 days, and actually seeing two doctors, did they have her admitted to the hospital.

So why are you not asking why the GP's, 3 of them, did not consider she should have been admitted to the hospital?

You then saying the mother should have done, when she is not medically trained and has been dealing with the surgery, since her daughter has had this condition? Like i say, your arguments are weak, and fail to even fault the GP's. 3 of them

Seriously?

Do you not see how dumb your argument is?

Most people take the advice of the GP and rightly so. Yet in this case the GP's made many errors

So its not as simple as that. What is only simple, is your attempts to understand any of this

I see you failed to answer a single point

The whole point of preventative action is to ensure people do not need constant hospital admission

Try again

The child had seen the GP twice in 5 days.

This was the third day

Hence the GP should have ensured preventative action

It failed to do that.

The problem with your answer is that it does not understand asthma

Again, on the previous four days she had time off school and was wheezy and did not need to attend A&E or the hospital

Asthma can escalulate. That is why the Surgery needs to have a plan in place for the patient.
What is aggrevating her asthma?
Is she allergic to anything like animals, dust mite ect?

In many years the GP had not done tests (in my opinion) or had a preventative plan in place.

Now on the previous visits to the doctor it is evident she was not given a weeks course of steroids.

This is usually what is prescribed by a GP if wheezing persists and worsening. And as seen what she thought she would be given.

So what you should be asking is whether the child needed medication on the previous two visits and if they did not prescribe. Then what would the mother think, if they deemed it not necessary?

She could of course have a second opinion, but that also happen, as the second time was with another GP

So why have you not ask did she not attend A&E on the four previous days when the child was wheezy?

The simple answer, is that the doctors did not believe her asthma was worsening

The mother eithers takes the advice of the doctors or not.

She went back for a third time and clearly was going to wait another day, when she had already been through 5 days of this.

The problem with you Tommy here, is simple and what others are making the mistake of.

They see that the child later died and you argue off hindsight. When as seen most people wheezy do not need to attend A&E

Clearly being as the child was off school and had gone back to school. She clearly was better that morning.

The fact later that day she was wheezy again after school, does not automatically mean she required to attend A&E. Like i say, if she had rang 111 or 999 they would have advised to speak to a GP within one hour.
She did this and why the system falls down, as the doctor did not examine the child.

This condition had being going on for 3 years, so why would she suddenlly feel the need to attend A&E, when this bhad been going on and off for 5 days? When she has seen before her child in hospital many times? It means the severity of her breathing was clearly not as bad as had been when she had been admitted to hospital. What the mother and nobody would suspect would happen, actually did end up happenning. Its also possible the doctor refusing to see the child and upseting the child, could have stressed the child, which later made the asthma worse.

Its very clear the surgery did not take seriously enough the nature of her asthma

You are just repeating yourself Tommy and failing to answer every point I make to you and even worse wait till I am off line

So based on your view on serious enough to take to the gp and being she had been twice in 5 days

How is that a case that its serious enough for A&E you fuckwit?

Is a cold serious enough after seeing two doctors, warrants A&E?

Why had not anyone laid claim to your bullshit speculative claims?

Do you know why Tommy?

Because they are full of shit

You are claiming a civillian should be a medical expert on a condition which varies with every person

NOt only are you an idiot, but no lawyer would even take up your idiot claim she was to blame, not even the defense lawyer for the GP's

What does that say for your idiotic invented bullshit you claim?

Its why you have avoided every single point I raised to you

Now either take up my claims, or punch yourself in the face until you see you are a complete retard?

If I met you and I was the mothers friend, I would take a baseball bat to you

and I am not joking, being as I have been in prison before taking out scum like you

That is how I think you are that much of a scum bag

Dont make abusive and violent threats on this forum please
Not kidding

by Guest Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:44 pm

eddie wrote:
Didge wrote:

You are just repeating yourself Tommy and failing to answer every point I make to you and even worse wait till I am off line

So based on your view on serious enough to take to the gp and being she had been twice in 5 days

How is that a case that its serious enough for A&E you fuckwit?

Is a cold serious enough after seeing two doctors, warrants A&E?

Why had not anyone laid claim to your bullshit speculative claims?

Do you know why Tommy?

Because they are full of shit

You are claiming a civillian should be a medical expert on a condition which varies with every person

NOt only are you an idiot, but no lawyer would even take up your idiot claim she was to blame, not even the defense lawyer for the GP's

What does that say for your idiotic invented bullshit you claim?

Its why you have avoided every single point I raised to you

Now either take up my claims, or punch yourself in the face until you see you are a complete retard?

If I met you and I was the mothers friend, I would take a baseball bat to you

and I am not joking, being as I have been in prison before taking out scum like you

That is how I think you are that much of a scum bag

Dont make abusive and violent threats on this forum please
Not kidding

But casting an innocent women with fake claims saying that she did not care for her daughter by watching TV and facebook is okay with you.

I stated if I was the mothers friend, I would kick the shit out of someone making such claims

I stand by that

by eddie Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:56 pm

Yeah. Good for you. Just don’t make threats on here.

Thanks.

by Guest Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:06 pm

eddie wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

I have to disagree, as the kid was taken to hospital before, so as a parent you'd err on the side of caution. Well, I would.

Exactly.
And furthermore, the mother obviously wasn’t that worried or she’d have taken her to A&E.
If she were that concerned she wouldn’t have walked the child to the GP.
If the doctor had seen the child then the child still might have died.
Did the GP KnOW what the child was there for in the first place?

The child dies hours later. Doesn’t sound like a worried mother to me.

Seems as though she’s blaming everyone but herself.

What crock of shit

If you actually read the coroner report. The mother had been to see two GP's previously before this one within the last 5 days

Do you actually read anything on this

People like you are so judgemental without ever reading any facts

How is she an uncaring mother who takes her child to the doctor 3 times in 5 days not worried?

Explain that to me?

Where in the previous two visits by two different doctors, neither precribed steroids for her. This is clear as she believed steroids would clear up her wheezing. Doctors prescribe a 5-7 day course of steroids. Its clear the daughter was not provided with any.

So tell me brain of Britain, why on the previous 5 days, did not even the GP's have the child admitted to hospital?

Why on the previous 5 days, of which the child was off school wheezing, did she not need to go to hospital?

It shows it was the doctors at fault not having any prevantative measure in place

People like you only look at things in hindsight, not on what the mother dealth with in regards to 3 years off her daughter having asthma

Clearly she has seen when her daughter is bad enough with her breathing, when on many occasions she has been admitted to the hospital. To say that she should attend A&E everytime her daughter is wheezy proves like Tommy, you have not a clue what you are talking about. If everyone when wheezy went to A&E, when over 5 million people are asthmatics, the NHS would see countless people die on needing emergency attention not related to asthma, because the hospitals would not be able to cope with so many people attending A&E, when they need to arrange to see a doctor . Like I said to Tommy, with 999 and 111 people are reffered to speak to a GP, unless they cannot speak in a full sentence and with a child, the stomach and chest is being sucked in and out prominantly. Being wheezy does not mean you need to always go to A&E

Now I have posted plenty on this, but you ignorantly ignored countless posts

Guardian wrote:Recording a narrative conclusion, the Gwent coroner, Wendy James, said: “It is not possible for me to determine with certainty whether an earlier intervention would have altered the outcome for Ellie, but nonetheless Ellie should have been seen by a GP that day and she was let down by the failures in the system.

“Ellie-May Clark died of natural causes where the opportunity to provide potentially life-saving treatment was missed.”

The coroner added: “Ellie’s care was disjointed. There was no one doctor or clinician allocated to oversee Ellie’s long-term management or care even though she suffered with a life-threatening condition.

She was dealt with by three doctors in the surgery in five days. Had she been seen by one doctor, things maybe been different for Ellie.

“It is unacceptable that patients should be refused to be seen at an emergency appointment without any clinical assessment of their condition or any advice given. Especially when that patient is a five-year old child with a history of severe acute asthma.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/feb/26/ellie-may-clark-asthma-died-after-newport-clinic-doctor-turned-her-away-emergency-appointment-inquest-hears

by eddie Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:16 pm

Yeah, perhaps she was just of low-intelligence.

by Guest Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:18 pm

eddie wrote:Yeah, perhaps she was just of low-intelligence.

So yet more slants onto her, based on her daughter dying

How sick can some people get eh

by eddie Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:22 pm

Didge wrote:
eddie wrote:Yeah, perhaps she was just of low-intelligence.

So yet more slants onto her, based on her daughter dying

How sick can some people get eh

She isn’t immune to opinions because her daughter died.
It’s a topic, we are discussing it.
I’m being honest.
I wish the girl hadn’t died.
I also wish the mother taken her daughter to A&E....and I bet she does too.

by Guest Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:28 pm

eddie wrote:
Didge wrote:

So yet more slants onto her, based on her daughter dying

How sick can some people get eh

She isn’t immune to opinions because her daughter died.
It’s a topic, we are discussing it.
I’m being honest.
I wish the girl hadn’t died.
I also wish the mother taken her daughter to A&E....and I bet she does too.

Honest?

Or judgemental based on the concept of the thought Police?

You are going off in hindsight the fact her daughter died.

Where as seen she went to the doctors 3 times in 5 days. That means she had been wheezy on and off for at least 5 days. Now we know she was not given any prevantive measures, like steroids, which also could include preventative inhalers. She may only have had a Ventolin inhaler, which is used to ease wheezing. No plan was put in place and at no point did the other doctors believe her wheezing needed her being admitted to hospital.

So what was the mother to think?

She knows steroids help and yet over many days and where clearly her child was better in the morning that day, going to school, where previously she had been off school. Why would she then believe she needed to go to A&E? Seriously? This had been going on over the last 5 days.

I wish people like you would stop judging people based on you npot actually knowing what has gone on and even worse condemning a mother who its clear did everything for her daughter. Being that she had been admitted on multiple occasions to the hospital.

This is what is so wrong in society today, how people constantly look wrongly at the negative of those who have actually suffered and not condemn those who did actually fail here.

The doctors at her surgery

by HoratioTarr Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:29 pm

eddie wrote:
Didge wrote:

So yet more slants onto her, based on her daughter dying

How sick can some people get eh

She isn’t immune to opinions because her daughter died.
It’s a topic, we are discussing it.
I’m being honest.
I wish the girl hadn’t died.
I also wish the mother taken her daughter to A&E....and I bet she does too.

Most parents will be thinking exactly the same thing. It's terribly tragic and about time that asthma was given top priority in emergencies just in case, particularly with kids with a history of severe attacks. We asthmatics still have to pay for our medicine on prescription, which I think is wrong. Most life threatening conditions get free medication such as thyroxin and diabetic sufferers. It's free in N. Ireland, Scotland and Wales but not England.

by eddie Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:31 pm

Yeah but the fact still remains that the mother now blames the GP but really, she knows she should’ve gone to the hospital with her daughter.
That’s just common sense.

Sad but true.

by HoratioTarr Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:34 pm

The child was on her pink inhaler which is the one that is a preventative. She wasn't just on 'Ventolin'.

by Guest Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:34 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
eddie wrote:

She isn’t immune to opinions because her daughter died.
It’s a topic, we are discussing it.
I’m being honest.
I wish the girl hadn’t died.
I also wish the mother taken her daughter to A&E....and I bet she does too.

Most parents will be thinking exactly the same thing. It's terribly tragic and about time that asthma was given top priority in emergencies just in case, particularly with kids with a history of severe attacks. We asthmatics still have to pay for our medicine on prescription, which I think is wrong. Most life threatening conditions get free medication such as thyroxin and diabetic sufferers. It's free in N. Ireland, Scotland and Wales but not England.

But was it an emergency that required A&E?
You are conflating an emergency appointment at the GP with needing basically 999 care.
Its not the same thing and you are only coming to this conclusion based on how she died later than evening in hindsight.

As seen she had been wheezy on and off for 5 days and you only now go off how on this fifth day, she later died.

The point you are missing is why would the mother believe she would need to go to A&E, when she has taken her child to A&E before? It means her wheezing was not as bad as it had been before. So what was the mother to do? Go to the GP, as she did 3 times over 5 days? What was the mother to think, being that, in the morning clearly her daughter had been better and had gone back to school? Her daughter had been wheezying on and off over this period. So why on that day, would she then think she needs to go to A&E. Two doctors had not even provided her with steroids within that time frame

by HoratioTarr Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:37 pm

eddie wrote:Yeah but the fact still remains that the mother now blames the GP but really, she knows she should’ve gone to the hospital with her daughter.
That’s just common sense.

Sad but true.

That GP is clearly a miserable old cuss, and should have bent over backwards for that kid. I don't doubt that. But that poor child should have been taken to hospital. When you have a child with asthma, you should know all the ins and outs of that condition, have a plan of action at home, make sure there are enough meds and that the child is taking the pink inhaler twice a day without fail. And when she's having so much difficulty she cannot speak or walk then get her to hospital, not just the doctor's where you know you have to wait in line.

by Guest Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:37 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
eddie wrote:Yeah but the fact still remains that the mother now blames the GP but really, she knows she should’ve gone to the hospital with her daughter.
That’s just common sense.

Sad but true.

That GP is clearly a miserable old cuss, and should have bent over backwards for that kid. I don't doubt that. But that poor child should have been taken to hospital. When you have a child with asthma, you should know all the ins and outs of that condition, have a plan of action at home, make sure there are enough meds and that the child is taking the pink inhaler twice a day without fail. And when she's having so much difficulty she cannot speak or walk then get her to hospital, not just the doctor's where you know you have to wait in line.

The GP surgey did not even create a plan for the child, that is clear

I will just post the same points again I guess

But was it an emergency that required A&E?
You are conflating an emergency appointment at the GP with needing basically 999 care.
Its not the same thing and you are only coming to this conclusion based on how she died later than evening in hindsight.

As seen she had been wheezy on and off for 5 days and you only now go off how on this fifth day, she later died.

The point you are missing is why would the mother believe she would need to go to A&E, when she has taken her child to A&E before? It means her wheezing was not as bad as it had been before. So what was the mother to do? Go to the GP, as she did 3 times over 5 days? What was the mother to think, being that, in the morning clearly her daughter had been better and had gone back to school? Her daughter had been wheezying on and off over this period. So why on that day, would she then think she needs to go to A&E. Two doctors had not even provided her with steroids within that time frame

by HoratioTarr Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:39 pm

Didge wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Most parents will be thinking exactly the same thing. It's terribly tragic and about time that asthma was given top priority in emergencies just in case, particularly with kids with a history of severe attacks. We asthmatics still have to pay for our medicine on prescription, which I think is wrong. Most life threatening conditions get free medication such as thyroxin and diabetic sufferers. It's free in N. Ireland, Scotland and Wales but not England.

But was it an emergency that required A&E?
You are conflating an emergency appointment at the GP with needing basically 999 care.
Its not the same thing and you are only coming to this conclusion based on how she died later than evening in hindsight.

As seen she had been wheezy on and off for 5 days and you only now go off how on this fifth day, she later died.

The point you are missing is why would the mother believe she would need to go to A&E, when she has taken her child to A&E before? It means her wheezing was not as bad as it had been before. So what was the mother to do? Go to the GP, as she did 3 times over 5 days? What was the mother to think, being that, in the morning clearly her daughter had been better and had gone back to school? Her daughter had been wheezying on and off over this period. So why on that day, would she then think she needs to go to A&E. Two doctors had not even provided her with steroids within that time frame

You know what, Didge. When you have kids, and those kids have a condition that has been life threatening in the past, you don't give a shit about clogging up A and Fucking E. You don't have to be wheezing to die of asthma either. The child couldn't eat, speak or walk and was not responding to her meds. That in itself should have been the red flag.

by Guest Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:44 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Didge wrote:

But was it an emergency that required A&E?
You are conflating an emergency appointment at the GP with needing basically 999 care.
Its not the same thing and you are only coming to this conclusion based on how she died later than evening in hindsight.

As seen she had been wheezy on and off for 5 days and you only now go off how on this fifth day, she later died.

The point you are missing is why would the mother believe she would need to go to A&E, when she has taken her child to A&E before? It means her wheezing was not as bad as it had been before. So what was the mother to do? Go to the GP, as she did 3 times over 5 days? What was the mother to think, being that, in the morning clearly her daughter had been better and had gone back to school? Her daughter had been wheezying on and off over this period. So why on that day, would she then think she needs to go to A&E. Two doctors had not even provided her with steroids within that time frame

You know what, Didge. When you have kids, and those kids have a condition that has been life threatening in the past, you don't give a shit about clogging up A and Fucking E. You don't have to be wheezing to die of asthma either. The child couldn't eat, speak or walk and was not responding to her meds. That in itself should have been the red flag.

When I have kids?

Wow

Like i say, you are going off this based on hindsight, not actually studying what actually went on.

I have asked you simple questions, being as I do suffer with severe asthma.

Why is it over 5 days, she was not even provided steroids?

The child was able to speak if you read the article, she asked and was upset why the doctor would not see here.

Read the article.

I know what its like to not be able to speak in a full sentence.

The facts are this

She had been wheezy on and off for 5 days

She had seen two seperate doctors

Neither gave her steroids, as you know its normally a 5 to 7 day course

Neither had her admitted to hospital

Clearly she was not struggling to breath during this, until the fifth evening, which nobody could have predicted.

At no point has anyone said she should have taken her to hospital on the previous 4 days, she had been wheezy on and off and do you know why? It rubbishes everything you have been saying.

You are simple are going off the fact she did later die

All I see is the totalitarian thought police on parade

by eddie Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:47 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
eddie wrote:Yeah but the fact still remains that the mother now blames the GP but really, she knows she should’ve gone to the hospital with her daughter.
That’s just common sense.

Sad but true.

That GP is clearly a miserable old cuss, and should have bent over backwards for that kid. I don't doubt that. But that poor child should have been taken to hospital. When you have a child with asthma, you should know all the ins and outs of that condition, have a plan of action at home, make sure there are enough meds and that the child is taking the pink inhaler twice a day without fail. And when she's having so much difficulty she cannot speak or walk then get her to hospital, not just the doctor's where you know you have to wait in line.

Totally agree.

by Guest Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:50 pm

eddie wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

That GP is clearly a miserable old cuss, and should have bent over backwards for that kid. I don't doubt that. But that poor child should have been taken to hospital. When you have a child with asthma, you should know all the ins and outs of that condition, have a plan of action at home, make sure there are enough meds and that the child is taking the pink inhaler twice a day without fail. And when she's having so much difficulty she cannot speak or walk then get her to hospital, not just the doctor's where you know you have to wait in line.

Totally agree.

Then why is it so many people cannot respond to my points?

Here you go Eddie

When I have kids?

Wow

Like i say, you are going off this based on hindsight, not actually studying what actually went on.

I have asked you simple questions, being as I do suffer with severe asthma.

Why is it over 5 days, she was not even provided steroids?

The child was able to speak if you read the article, she asked and was upset why the doctor would not see here.

Read the article.

I know what its like to not be able to speak in a full sentence.

The facts are this

She had been wheezy on and off for 5 days

She had seen two seperate doctors

Neither gave her steroids, as you know its normally a 5 to 7 day course

Neither had her admitted to hospital

Clearly she was not struggling to breath during this, until the fifth evening, which nobody could have predicted.

At no point has anyone said she should have taken her to hospital on the previous 4 days, she had been wheezy on and off and do you know why? It rubbishes everything you have been saying.

You are simple are going off the fact she did later die

All I see is the totalitarian thought police on parade

by eddie Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:55 pm

I thought you did have kids, so I don’t really know what I’m supposed to reply to that.

by Guest Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:59 pm

eddie wrote:I thought you did have kids, so I don’t really know what I’m supposed to reply to that.

he does

HT wrote this,,,

''You know what, Didge. When you have kids, and those kids have a condition that has been life threatening in the past, you don't give a shit about clogging up A and Fucking E. You don't have to be wheezing to die of asthma either. The child couldn't eat, speak or walk and was not responding to her meds. That in itself should have been the red flag.''

clearly the 'you' in her post was meant in general terms as in 'one' but didge thought she was referring to him personally

over

by Guest Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:07 pm

eddie wrote:I thought you did have kids, so I don’t really know what I’m supposed to reply to that.

Well apprantly I do not according to Horatio, not that it had any relevance to the debate, it was poor misdirection.

The point is Eddie, its very clear, the child had been wheezy over 5 days. Not steroids were given, no plan was ever put in place as a preventative measure. If anything, a child in her condition, should have an emergency Nebulizor. But even the mother was giving her multiple inhaler puffs. Its doubtful even a nebublizor would have helped either, as its a big hit of ventolin over 20 to 30 minutes.

I have had steroids not even help me at all. Though its clear the child was better that fifth day and went to school. Why on this day and not previous, would she then think her daughter needed to go to A&E? She had seen two doctors and neither had prescribed steroids to her. So why only on this day when she became wheezy again, would she need to go to A&E, when she did not need to before?

Remember the mother knows when her breathing is so bad, being as she has had multiple times in hospital. Hence people read a headline, see past that she was wheezy, then ineterpret this as the child struggling to breath when going to the GP, when she certainly was not. It states clearly she was wheezy. People then misinterpret this and then believe she should not even have gone to the GP and straight to hospital. Showing this is the problems with articles. In how people come to the wrong interpretation from them.

Like I say, at no point did anyone here say she should have gone to A&E on either the days she was of school and wheezy and did not see the GP.

Maybe you can explain that to me?

I can, it shows people are going not off the facts, but in hindsight

by Guest Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:08 pm

gelico wrote:
eddie wrote:I thought you did have kids, so I don’t really know what I’m supposed to reply to that.

he does

HT wrote this,,,

''You know what, Didge. When you have kids, and those kids have a condition that has been life threatening in the past, you don't give a shit about clogging up A and Fucking E. You don't have to be wheezing to die of asthma either. The child couldn't eat, speak or walk and was not responding to her meds. That in itself should have been the red flag.''

clearly the 'you' in her post was meant in general terms as in 'one' but didge thought she was referring to him personally

over

WTF?

That was not meant in general terms

Wow yet again

Is anyone else reading this the same way Gelico is reading?

by HoratioTarr Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:08 pm

Didge wrote:
eddie wrote:

Totally agree.

Then why is it so many people cannot respond to my points?

Here you go Eddie

When I have kids?

Wow

Like i say, you are going off this based on hindsight, not actually studying what actually went on.

I have asked you simple questions, being as I do suffer with severe asthma.

Why is it over 5 days, she was not even provided steroids?

The child was able to speak if you read the article, she asked and was upset why the doctor would not see here.

Read the article.

I know what its like to not be able to speak in a full sentence.

The facts are this

She had been wheezy on and off for 5 days

She had seen two seperate doctors

Neither gave her steroids, as you know its normally a 5 to 7 day course

Neither had her admitted to hospital

Clearly she was not struggling to breath during this, until the fifth evening, which nobody could have predicted.

At no point has anyone said she should have taken her to hospital on the previous 4 days, she had been wheezy on and off and do you know why? It rubbishes everything you have been saying.

You are simple are going off the fact she did later die

All I see is the totalitarian thought police on parade

Yes, when you have kids. What is the issue with that statement?

If none of those doctors gave her steroids like Prednisolone, could there have been a reason? Perhaps she'd already been on a course of them and no more could be given. They do have side effects. Perhaps the mother had failed to give the child regular doses of her pink inhaler? Perhaps there was a trigger substance at the home? Perhaps the poor mite was just so severe with her lung problems she could have been a time bomb. So many things could have contributed. It's not even sure she'd have survived if she'd gotten to hospital but it was the only logical thing left to do.

It's no good stamping your trotters because nobody is agreeing with you on all your 'points'.

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