British Babies Killed For Being Girls

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:



Show me in the laws where it does not protect them?

take your time

Sharia Law courts like Beth Din deal solely on religious aspects within the family, British always supersedes it 

So we do not see what goes on based upon your assumption based upon no evidence?
There is no doubts some crimes like anywhere go unnoticed, but to make a claim on a community it is pandemic is absurd in this country

really are you so blind or just not willing to see, you haven't seen the cases of girls who have been killed by their families despite risking going to the police about their treatment by their own families, you don't see the cases of girls taken from this country to muslim countries to have their genitals mutilated, these girls are protected are they?

Sassy wrote:

ALLAKAKA wrote:



Yes we are aware of the problems.

They don't have a gender problem in Pakistan, they do in India and China.

As far as I know, at the moment we don't have a gender problem, but we don't half have a lot of white british rapists.

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

really are you so blind or just not willing to see, you haven't seen the cases of girls who have been killed by their families despite risking going to the police about their treatment by their own families, you don't see the cases of girls taken from this country to muslim countries to have their genitals mutilated, these girls are protected are they?

Yes I have seen isolated cases on honour killings, which you change perceptions by education and showing how wrong they are, again your argument is emotive and semantic. Nobody denies there is problems, but you argue as if it is pandemic, it is not
Again an absurd reply

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Yes I have seen isolated cases on honour killings, which you change perceptions by education and showing how wrong they are, again your argument is emotive and semantic. Nobody denies there is problems, but you argue as if it is pandemic, it is not
Again an absurd reply

isolated cases, that's a bold claim, do you suppose that the sharia law courts and the muslim communities make every case common knowledge. what about the genital mutilation, they clearly work round British law do you suppose the girls    agree to it or should seek legal help, perhaps they could have it sown back on

PhilDidge wrote:

sphinx wrote:

If the law protects them why are families from other European countries travelling to the UK to get their daughters mutilated because they know they will not be stopped here where they will be in their own countries?

Does it make everyone proud knowing the UK is a destination of choice for people seeking to remove their daughters genitals?

Really?
So the practice is carried out all in Britain and not abroad now?

No doubt some goes on here and they are trying to find ways to solve this legal issue, which you know damn well about sphinx, so grow up, we have been here before and there again only recently you failed to understand the difficulties.

Thus your argument is semantic, where we need to all help change the law, are you saying they are not trying to help now

sphinx wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Really?
So the practice is carried out all in Britain and not abroad now?

No doubt some goes on here and they are trying to find ways to solve this legal issue, which you know damn well about sphinx, so grow up, we have been here before and there again only recently you failed to understand the difficulties.

Thus your argument is semantic, where we need to all help change the law, are you saying they are not trying to help now

No it is not all carried out in Britain - but when people living in France want their daughters mutilated and cannot afford to travel back to Africa to have it done they travel to London instead because it is known that there is no protection in the UK.

Words on a piece of paper do not protect the 60,000 girls in this country at risk.  

The brutal practical reality is that a girl in the UK is given no protection from this practice if that is what her family wish done.

PhilDidge wrote:

sphinx wrote:

No it is not all carried out in Britain - but when people living in France want their daughters mutilated and cannot afford to travel back to Africa to have it done they travel to London instead because it is known that there is no protection in the UK.

Words on a piece of paper do not protect the 60,000 girls in this country at risk.  

The brutal practical reality is that a girl in the UK is given no protection from this practice if that is what her family wish done.

Again you make the absurd argument now people are coming in their thousands to London to have this done, really?
At present there is no way to convict unless the law changes, you do understand this do you not, or do you need me to explain this again for you?
Again it is not through want of trying as many want this barbaric practice stopped the same with circumcision, as to me any parent forcing something onto children is wrong but the later is acceptable.
yes much more needs to be done, but you are again using an emotive argument as if nobody wants to do anything when they are trying to solve this all the time

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:



Again you make the absurd argument now people are coming in their thousands to London to have this done, really?
At present there is no way to convict unless the law changes, you do understand this do you not, or do you need me to explain this again for you?
Again it is not through want of trying as many want this barbaric practice stopped the same with circumcision, as to me any parent forcing something onto children is wrong but the later is acceptable.
yes much more needs to be done, but you are again using an emotive argument as if nobody wants to do anything when they are trying to solve this all the time

what on earth has circumcision got to do with anything, it is not illegal, genital mutilation should not be done, the girls have no choice and everyone knows it is practiced, doesn't that tell you all you need to know about whethjer these girls have somewhere to go to protect them.

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

what on earth has circumcision got to do with anything, it is not illegal, genital mutilation should not be done, the girls have no choice and everyone knows it is practiced, doesn't that tell you all you need to know about whethjer these girls have somewhere to go to protect them.

Everything it is mutilation and the child has no say in the matter what so ever.

To me it is nothing short of child abuse.

So you are okay with boys having bits cut off but not girls, where I think both are wrong. how very odd

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Everything it is mutilation and the child has no say in the matter what so ever.

To me it is nothing short of child abuse.

So you are okay with boys having bits cut off but not girls, where I think both are wrong. how very odd

how can you equate a surgical operation for a male, which is neither illegal and is normally done for medical reasons to mutilating a girls private parts for no good reason, unless of course it is just a smoke and mirrors attempt to hide a despicable act towards women that further proves their total subjugation.

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

how can you equate a surgical operation for a male, which is neither illegal and is normally done for medical reasons to mutilating a girls private parts for no good reason, unless of course it is just a smoke and mirrors attempt to hide a despicable act towards women that further proves their total subjugation.

You do realise also it was a surgical operation for females in the past in the west also.

Again the child has no say, it is being mutilated, which both should be illegal, you either are against both or back both, which is it?

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


You do realise also it was a surgical operation for females in the past in the west also.

Again the child has no say, it is being mutilated, which both should be illegal, you either are against both or back both, which is it?

you are actually claiming female genital mutilation is a reasonable and done to promote good health?

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

you are actually claiming female genital mutilation is a reasonable and done to promote good health?

No I state both have no medical benefits, you claim one has when it does not!

Again you neglect the fact is the child has no say, you thus support child abuse with your logic

PhilDidge wrote:

sphinx wrote:

No it is not all carried out in Britain - but when people living in France want their daughters mutilated and cannot afford to travel back to Africa to have it done they travel to London instead because it is known that there is no protection in the UK.

Words on a piece of paper do not protect the 60,000 girls in this country at risk.  

The brutal practical reality is that a girl in the UK is given no protection from this practice if that is what her family wish done.

Again you make the absurd argument now people are coming in their thousands to London to have this done, really?
At present there is no way to convict unless the law changes, you do understand this do you not, or do you need me to explain this again for you?
Again it is not through want of trying as many want this barbaric practice stopped the same with circumcision, as to me any parent forcing something onto children is wrong but the later is acceptable.
yes much more needs to be done, but you are again using an emotive argument as if nobody wants to do anything when they are trying to solve this all the time

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


No I state both have no medical benefits, you claim one has when it does not!

Again you neglect the fact is the child has no say, you thus support child abuse with your logic

what utter rubbish is circumcision illegal, it has proven medical health benefits, is female genital mutilation illegal, i have to wonder why it is illegal, perhaps it's just a big misunderstanding and the medical world just don't understand the procedure, yeah that will be it.

sphinx wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:



Again you make the absurd argument now people are coming in their thousands to London to have this done, really?
At present there is no way to convict unless the law changes, you do understand this do you not, or do you need me to explain this again for you?
Again it is not through want of trying as many want this barbaric practice stopped the same with circumcision, as to me any parent forcing something onto children is wrong but the later is acceptable.
yes much more needs to be done, but you are again using an emotive argument as if nobody wants to do anything when they are trying to solve this all the time

Nowhere have I said thousands didge but if you wish to use the emotive tactics you so loudly criticize in everyone else to hope to distract from the truth you do not want to admit carry on.

The law states it is illegal to mutilate a girl in this country.
The law states it is illegal to take a girl to another country and have her mutilated.
The law states where abuse is suspected children can be medically examined without parental consent.
yes but proving the law is difficult, how many times do you have to grasp this, or do you need me to explain the reasons again

The police get suspected FGM reported to them - not in vast numbers but a lot more than the number zero.
So what is the problem there? Again another legal issue if medical practices cannot inform the Police correct? Thus laws need to change, but by doing so would open the door to abuse of other private information being available, do you understand this?

 
So a case of suspected FGM is reported means the girl can legally be medically examined.  There are enough reports from midwives and obstetricians detailing actual mutilation so there are going to be cases where examination confirm suspicions.  Yet not one single court case even attempting prosecution.

Our CPS are confident enough of the chance of victory to prosecute cases of abuse 40 years old with no evidence other than she said he said - yet they dont think they stand any chance of victory and will not even attempt to prosecute parents of children with medically detailed mutilation despite the law making it clear that parents are culpable at least partially.
yes and I back them to the hilt to success, but now you are speculating over how they intent to win the case, I suggest you await to see the outcome before patting yourself on the back, how absurd also, I place belief in the fact they can 

The brutal reality is we could prosecute if we wanted to - France has achieved over 100 successful prosecutions and they admit their laws are not as robust as ours in the matter.  We have the robust laws - we just are not enforcing them.

heavenly father wrote:Female genital mutilation (sometimes referred to as female circumcision) refers to procedures that intentionally alter or cause injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons. The practice is illegal in the UK.
It has been estimated that over 20,000 girls under the age of 15 are at risk of female genital mutilation (FGM) in the UK each year, and that 66,000 women in the UK are living with the consequences of FGM. However, the true extent is unknown due to the 'hidden' nature of the crime.
The girls may be taken to their countries of origin so that FGM can be carried out during the summer holidays, allowing them time to 'heal' before they return to school. There are also worries that some girls may have FGM performed in the UK.
Forms of mutilation

FGM is usually carried out on young girls between infancy and age 15, most commonly before puberty starts.
The procedure is traditionally carried out by a woman with no medical training. Anaesthetics and antiseptic treatments are not generally used and the practice is usually carried out using knives, scissors, scalpels, pieces of glass or razor blades. Girls may have to be forcibly restrained.
There are four main types of FGM:
Type 1 – clitoridectomy – removing part or all of the clitoris.
Type 2 – excision – removing part or all of the clitoris and the inner labia (lips that surround the vagina), with or without removal of the labia majora (larger outer lips).
Type 3 – infibulation – narrowing of the vaginal opening by creating a seal, formed by cutting and repositioning the labia.
Other harmful procedures to the female genitals, which include pricking, piercing, cutting, scraping and burning the area.
Effects of FGM

There are no health benefits to FGM. Removing and damaging healthy and normal female genital tissue interferes with the natural functions of girls' and women's bodies.
Immediate effects

severe pain
shock
bleeding
wound infections, including tetanus and gangrene, as well as blood-borne viruses such as HIV, hepatitis B and hepatitis C
inability to urinate
injury to vulval tissues surrounding the entrance to the vagina
damage to other organs nearby, such as the urethra (where urine passes) and the bowel
FGM can sometimes cause death.
Long-term consequences

chronic vaginal and pelvic infections
abnormal periods
difficulties passing urine and persistent urine infections
kidney impairment and possible kidney failure
damage to the reproductive system, including infertility
cysts and the formation of scar tissue
complications in pregnancy and newborn deaths
pain during sex and lack of pleasurable sensation
psychological damage, including low libido, depression and anxiety (see below)
flashbacks during pregnancy and childbirth
the need for later surgery to open the lower vagina for sexual intercourse and childbirth
Psychological and mental health problems

Case histories and personal accounts taken from women indicate that FGM is an extremely traumatic experience for girls and women, which stays with them for the rest of their lives.
Young women receiving psychological counselling in the UK report feelings of betrayal by parents, regret and anger.
The legal situation

FGM is illegal in the UK. It is also illegal to arrange for a child to be taken abroad for FGM. If caught, offenders face a large fine and a prison sentence of up to 14 years.
What you can do

If you are worried about someone who is at risk of FGM or has had FGM, you must share this information with social care or the police. It is then their responsibility to investigate and protect any girls or women involved.
See the Useful links, right, for contact information.
Health professionals

If you are a health or social care professional who may come into contact with girls and women at risk of FGM, you can read the Multi-Agency Practice Guidelines on Female Genital Mutilation (HMG 2011) (PDF, 1.63Mb).
These guidelines contain detailed advice and guidance in relation to the protection of girls who may be at risk of FGM, as well as the care and treatment of women who have already undergone FGM.
Other useful resources are listed in the Useful links, right.
Surgical "reversal"

Surgery can be performed to open up the lower vagina. This is sometimes called "reversal", although it cannot restore sensitive tissue that has been removed.
Surgery may be necessary for women who are unable to have intercourse as the vagina is too narrow. In addition, some pregnant women who have had FGM will need to have their lower vagina opened up before labour to allow a safer birth.
FGM increases the risk of the vagina tearing during delivery, which causes damage and can lead to heavy bleeding. It can also increase the risk of the baby dying during, or just after birth.
Surgery is best performed before pregnancy, or at least within the second trimester of pregnancy (between about 12 and 36 weeks).
Some women may be reluctant to undergo reversal until labour starts, because this may be normal practice in their country of origin. The Royal College of Nursing 2006 guidelines (PDF, 1.03Mb) offer advice on this.
Surgery involves making a careful incision along the scar tissue that has closed up the entrance to the vagina, to expose the underlying vagina.
Adequate pain relief is essential – the procedure is usually performed under local anaesthetic in the outpatient clinic. However, a small number of women will need either a general or spinal anaesthetic (injection in the back), which would normally involve a one-day stay in hospital.
Where does FGM happen?

FGM is prevalent in Africa, the Middle East and Asia.
In the UK, FGM tends to occur in areas with larger populations of communities who practice FGM, such as first-generation immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers. These areas include London, Cardiff, Manchester, Sheffield, Northampton, Birmingham, Oxford, Crawley, Reading, Slough and Milton Keynes.
Why is it done?

FGM is carried out for cultural, religious and social reasons within families and communities.
For example, it is often considered a necessary part of raising a girl properly, and as a way to prepare her for adulthood and marriage. FGM is often motivated by the belief that it is beneficial for the girl or woman. Many communities believe it will reduce a woman's libido and discourage sexual activity before marriage the NHS site

ALLAKAKA wrote:

Shall we move on to the Psychological effects of forcing foreign cultures on the indigenous population of the UK , I'm sure that is relevant to the OP.

ALLAKAKA wrote:

Shall we move on to the Psychological effects of forcing foreign cultures on the indigenous population of the UK , I'm sure that is relevant to the OP.

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:Female genital mutilation (sometimes referred to as female circumcision) refers to procedures that intentionally alter or cause injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons. The practice is illegal in the UK.
It has been estimated that over 20,000 girls under the age of 15 are at risk of female genital mutilation (FGM) in the UK each year, and that 66,000 women in the UK are living with the consequences of FGM. However, the true extent is unknown due to the 'hidden' nature of the crime.
The girls may be taken to their countries of origin so that FGM can be carried out during the summer holidays, allowing them time to 'heal' before they return to school. There are also worries that some girls may have FGM performed in the UK.
Forms of mutilation

FGM is usually carried out on young girls between infancy and age 15, most commonly before puberty starts.
The procedure is traditionally carried out by a woman with no medical training. Anaesthetics and antiseptic treatments are not generally used and the practice is usually carried out using knives, scissors, scalpels, pieces of glass or razor blades. Girls may have to be forcibly restrained.
There are four main types of FGM:
Type 1 – clitoridectomy – removing part or all of the clitoris.
Type 2 – excision – removing part or all of the clitoris and the inner labia (lips that surround the vagina), with or without removal of the labia majora (larger outer lips).
Type 3 – infibulation – narrowing of the vaginal opening by creating a seal, formed by cutting and repositioning the labia.
Other harmful procedures to the female genitals, which include pricking, piercing, cutting, scraping and burning the area.
Effects of FGM

There are no health benefits to FGM. Removing and damaging healthy and normal female genital tissue interferes with the natural functions of girls' and women's bodies.
Immediate effects

severe pain
shock
bleeding
wound infections, including tetanus and gangrene, as well as blood-borne viruses such as HIV, hepatitis B and hepatitis C
inability to urinate
injury to vulval tissues surrounding the entrance to the vagina
damage to other organs nearby, such as the urethra (where urine passes) and the bowel
FGM can sometimes cause death.
Long-term consequences

chronic vaginal and pelvic infections
abnormal periods
difficulties passing urine and persistent urine infections
kidney impairment and possible kidney failure
damage to the reproductive system, including infertility
cysts and the formation of scar tissue
complications in pregnancy and newborn deaths
pain during sex and lack of pleasurable sensation
psychological damage, including low libido, depression and anxiety (see below)
flashbacks during pregnancy and childbirth
the need for later surgery to open the lower vagina for sexual intercourse and childbirth
Psychological and mental health problems

Case histories and personal accounts taken from women indicate that FGM is an extremely traumatic experience for girls and women, which stays with them for the rest of their lives.
Young women receiving psychological counselling in the UK report feelings of betrayal by parents, regret and anger.
The legal situation

FGM is illegal in the UK. It is also illegal to arrange for a child to be taken abroad for FGM. If caught, offenders face a large fine and a prison sentence of up to 14 years.
What you can do

If you are worried about someone who is at risk of FGM or has had FGM, you must share this information with social care or the police. It is then their responsibility to investigate and protect any girls or women involved.
See the Useful links, right, for contact information.
Health professionals

If you are a health or social care professional who may come into contact with girls and women at risk of FGM, you can read the Multi-Agency Practice Guidelines on Female Genital Mutilation (HMG 2011) (PDF, 1.63Mb).
These guidelines contain detailed advice and guidance in relation to the protection of girls who may be at risk of FGM, as well as the care and treatment of women who have already undergone FGM.
Other useful resources are listed in the Useful links, right.
Surgical "reversal"

Surgery can be performed to open up the lower vagina. This is sometimes called "reversal", although it cannot restore sensitive tissue that has been removed.
Surgery may be necessary for women who are unable to have intercourse as the vagina is too narrow. In addition, some pregnant women who have had FGM will need to have their lower vagina opened up before labour to allow a safer birth.
FGM increases the risk of the vagina tearing during delivery, which causes damage and can lead to heavy bleeding. It can also increase the risk of the baby dying during, or just after birth.
Surgery is best performed before pregnancy, or at least within the second trimester of pregnancy (between about 12 and 36 weeks).
Some women may be reluctant to undergo reversal until labour starts, because this may be normal practice in their country of origin. The Royal College of Nursing 2006 guidelines (PDF, 1.03Mb) offer advice on this.
Surgery involves making a careful incision along the scar tissue that has closed up the entrance to the vagina, to expose the underlying vagina.
Adequate pain relief is essential – the procedure is usually performed under local anaesthetic in the outpatient clinic. However, a small number of women will need either a general or spinal anaesthetic (injection in the back), which would normally involve a one-day stay in hospital.
Where does FGM happen?

FGM is prevalent in Africa, the Middle East and Asia.
In the UK, FGM tends to occur in areas with larger populations of communities who practice FGM, such as first-generation immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers. These areas include London, Cardiff, Manchester, Sheffield, Northampton, Birmingham, Oxford, Crawley, Reading, Slough and Milton Keynes.
Why is it done?

FGM is carried out for cultural, religious and social reasons within families and communities.
For example, it is often considered a necessary part of raising a girl properly, and as a way to prepare her for adulthood and marriage. FGM is often motivated by the belief that it is beneficial for the girl or woman. Many communities believe it will reduce a woman's libido and discourage sexual activity before marriage the NHS site

That is FGM, read again




Myth – Circumcising baby boys is a safe and harmless procedure.
Fact – Surgically removing part of a baby boy's penis causes pain, creates immediate health risks and can lead to serious complications. Risks include infection, hemorrhage, scarring, difficulty urinating, loss of part or all of the penis, and even death. Circumcision complications can and do occur in even the best clinical settings.
Myth – Circumcision is just a little snip.
Fact – Surgical removal of the foreskin involves immobilizing the baby by strapping him face-up onto a molded plastic board. In one common method, the doctor then inserts a metal instrument under the foreskin to forcibly separate it from the glans, slits the foreskin, and inserts a circumcision device. The foreskin is crushed and then cut off. The amount of skin removed in a typical infant circumcision is the equivalent of 15 square inches in an adult male.
Myth – Circumcision is routinely recommended and endorsed by doctors and other health professionals.
Fact – No professional medical association in the U.S. or anywhere else in the world recommends routine circumcision as medically necessary. In fact, leaving boys intact is now the norm in the U.S., with circumcision rates well below 40%.
Myth – The baby does not feel any pain during circumcision.
Fact – Circumcision is painful. Babies are sensitive to pain, just like older children and adults. The analgesics used for circumcision only decrease pain; they do not eliminate it. Further, the open wound left by the removal of the foreskin will continue to cause the baby pain and discomfort for the 7-10 days it takes to heal.
Myth – If I don't circumcise my son, he will be ridiculed.
Fact – Times have changed and so has people's understanding of circumcision. Today, although the popularity of circumcision varies across geographical areas, more than 60% of all baby boys born in the U.S. will leave the hospital intact. Most medically advanced nations do not practice child circumcision. Three quarters of the world's men are intact.
Myth – A boy should be circumcised to look like his father.
Fact – Children differ from their parents in many ways, including eye and hair color, body type, and (of course) size and sexual development. If a child asks why his penis looks different from that of his circumcised father (or brother), parents can say, "Daddy (or brother) had a part of his penis removed when he was a baby; now we know it’s not necessary and we decided not to let anyone do that to you."
Myth – Routine circumcision of baby boys cannot be compared to Female Genital Mutilation.
Fact – Rationales offered in cultures that promote female genital cutting – hygiene, disease prevention, improved appearance of the genitalia, and social acceptance – are similar to those offered in cultures that promote male circumcision. Whatever the rationale, forced removal of healthy genital tissue from any child – male or female – is unethical. Boys have the same right as girls to an intact body, and to be spared this inhumane, unnecessary surgery.
Myth – To oppose male circumcision is religious and cultural bigotry.
Fact – Many who oppose the permanent alteration of children's genitals do so because they believe in universal human rights. All children – regardless of their ethnicity or culture – have the right to be protected from bodily harm.
Myth – Circumcising newborn baby boys produces health benefits later in life.
Fact – There is NO link between circumcision and better health. In fact, cutting a baby boy's genitals creates immediate health risks. The foreskin is actually an important and functional body part, protecting the head of the penis from injury and providing moisture and lubrication. Circumcision also diminishes sexual pleasure later in life.
Myth – Male circumcision helps prevent HIV.
Fact – Claims that circumcision prevents HIV have repeatedly been proven to be exaggerated or false. Only abstinence or safe sex, including the use of condoms, can prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS


http://intactamerica.org/learnmore

heavenly father wrote:

ALLAKAKA wrote:

Shall we move on to the Psychological effects of forcing foreign cultures on the indigenous population of the UK , I'm sure that is relevant to the OP.

it is very relevant, why our laws should change for a foreign culture is beyond me.

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:



That is FGM, read again




Myth – Circumcising baby boys is a safe and harmless procedure.
Fact – Surgically removing part of a baby boy's penis causes pain, creates immediate health risks and can lead to serious complications. Risks include infection, hemorrhage, scarring, difficulty urinating, loss of part or all of the penis, and even death. Circumcision complications can and do occur in even the best clinical settings.
Myth – Circumcision is just a little snip.
Fact – Surgical removal of the foreskin involves immobilizing the baby by strapping him face-up onto a molded plastic board. In one common method, the doctor then inserts a metal instrument under the foreskin to forcibly separate it from the glans, slits the foreskin, and inserts a circumcision device. The foreskin is crushed and then cut off. The amount of skin removed in a typical infant circumcision is the equivalent of 15 square inches in an adult male.
Myth – Circumcision is routinely recommended and endorsed by doctors and other health professionals.
Fact – No professional medical association in the U.S. or anywhere else in the world recommends routine circumcision as medically necessary. In fact, leaving boys intact is now the norm in the U.S., with circumcision rates well below 40%.
Myth – The baby does not feel any pain during circumcision.
Fact – Circumcision is painful. Babies are sensitive to pain, just like older children and adults. The analgesics used for circumcision only decrease pain; they do not eliminate it. Further, the open wound left by the removal of the foreskin will continue to cause the baby pain and discomfort for the 7-10 days it takes to heal.
Myth – If I don't circumcise my son, he will be ridiculed.
Fact – Times have changed and so has people's understanding of circumcision. Today, although the popularity of circumcision varies across geographical areas, more than 60% of all baby boys born in the U.S. will leave the hospital intact. Most medically advanced nations do not practice child circumcision. Three quarters of the world's men are intact.
Myth – A boy should be circumcised to look like his father.
Fact – Children differ from their parents in many ways, including eye and hair color, body type, and (of course) size and sexual development. If a child asks why his penis looks different from that of his circumcised father (or brother), parents can say, "Daddy (or brother) had a part of his penis removed when he was a baby; now we know it’s not necessary and we decided not to let anyone do that to you."
Myth – Routine circumcision of baby boys cannot be compared to Female Genital Mutilation.
Fact – Rationales offered in cultures that promote female genital cutting – hygiene, disease prevention, improved appearance of the genitalia, and social acceptance – are similar to those offered in cultures that promote male circumcision. Whatever the rationale, forced removal of healthy genital tissue from any child – male or female – is unethical. Boys have the same right as girls to an intact body, and to be spared this inhumane, unnecessary surgery.
Myth – To oppose male circumcision is religious and cultural bigotry.
Fact – Many who oppose the permanent alteration of children's genitals do so because they believe in universal human rights. All children – regardless of their ethnicity or culture – have the right to be protected from bodily harm.
Myth – Circumcising newborn baby boys produces health benefits later in life.
Fact – There is NO link between circumcision and better health. In fact, cutting a baby boy's genitals creates immediate health risks. The foreskin is actually an important and functional body part, protecting the head of the penis from injury and providing moisture and lubrication. Circumcision also diminishes sexual pleasure later in life.
Myth – Male circumcision helps prevent HIV.
Fact – Claims that circumcision prevents HIV have repeatedly been proven to be exaggerated or false. Only abstinence or safe sex, including the use of condoms, can prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS


http://intactamerica.org/learnmore

again why do you think female genital mutilation is illegal and circumcision is not? do you think its just to upset the muslims?

nicko wrote:didge,stop being patronising your starting to piss people off again. as an old American tv show said "just give me the facts mam,just give me the facts"

nicko wrote:didge,stop being patronising your starting to piss people off again. as an old American tv show said "just give me the facts mam,just give me the facts"

ALLAKAKA wrote:

nicko wrote:didge,stop being patronising your starting to piss people off again. as an old American tv show said "just give me the facts mam,just give me the facts"

have you got any facts on WW2 that you would like to share ?

PhilDidge wrote:

nicko wrote:didge,stop being patronising your starting to piss people off again. as an old American tv show said "just give me the facts mam,just give me the facts"

Nicko I know exactly who heavenly father is and i will be patronising to someone who claims to be religious or beliefs in Jesus and contradicts themselves. 


I am against both forms of mutilation, as can be seen, your post is pedantic crap and you are a fine one to talk, learn to control the crap you spout at others first.

PhilDidge wrote:

sphinx wrote:

Nowhere have I said thousands didge but if you wish to use the emotive tactics you so loudly criticize in everyone else to hope to distract from the truth you do not want to admit carry on.

The law states it is illegal to mutilate a girl in this country.
The law states it is illegal to take a girl to another country and have her mutilated.
The law states where abuse is suspected children can be medically examined without parental consent.
yes but proving the law is difficult, how many times do you have to grasp this, or do you need me to explain the reasons again

The police get suspected FGM reported to them - not in vast numbers but a lot more than the number zero.
So what is the problem there? Again another legal issue if medical practices cannot inform the Police correct? Thus laws need to change, but by doing so would open the door to abuse of other private information being available, do you understand this?

 
So a case of suspected FGM is reported means the girl can legally be medically examined.  There are enough reports from midwives and obstetricians detailing actual mutilation so there are going to be cases where examination confirm suspicions.  Yet not one single court case even attempting prosecution.

Our CPS are confident enough of the chance of victory to prosecute cases of abuse 40 years old with no evidence other than she said he said - yet they dont think they stand any chance of victory and will not even attempt to prosecute parents of children with medically detailed mutilation despite the law making it clear that parents are culpable at least partially.
yes and I back them to the hilt to success, but now you are speculating over how they intent to win the case, I suggest you await to see the outcome before patting yourself on the back, how absurd also, I place belief in the fact they can 

The brutal reality is we could prosecute if we wanted to - France has achieved over 100 successful prosecutions and they admit their laws are not as robust as ours in the matter.  We have the robust laws - we just are not enforcing them.

Again France has managed only 100 out of how many cases?
So it is not easy if we wanted to, that shows you have little capacity for understanding criminal law   

ALLAKAKA wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Nicko I know exactly who heavenly father is and i will be patronising to someone who claims to be religious or beliefs in Jesus and contradicts themselves. 


I am against both forms of mutilation, as can be seen, your post is pedantic crap and you are a fine one to talk, learn to control the crap you spout at others first.

Have you got any more LONG copy& paste , that you could enlighten us all with ?


  

Sassy wrote:Am I right, is Heavenly Father that disgusting piece of dog turd Gig?   If so, he's going on ignore immediately.   If he isn't, apologies to him for associating him with such a complete low life.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Sassy wrote:Am I right, is Heavenly Father that disgusting piece of dog turd Gig?   If so, he's going on ignore immediately.   If he isn't, apologies to him for associating him with such a complete low life.

There is no way of knowing sassy.

Don't really remember GIG - I remember the name.

Was gig also Vicar of Dibley - quite liked her/him.

sphinx wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:

There is no way of knowing sassy.

Don't really remember GIG - I remember the name.

Was gig also Vicar of Dibley - quite liked her/him.

No Heavenly Father was the original title of the male half of the pair claiming to be Christian on sky - the female half was originally Vicar of Dibley.

They both went through several other names on the various forums including the male half calling himself God is Good (GiG)

PhilDidge wrote:

ALLAKAKA wrote:



Have you got any more LONG copy& paste , that you could enlighten us all with ?


  

never need that with you as it is so easy to show you up.

Poor chap that you are.

Right, have fun, time to go home and enjoy the weekend.

heavenly father wrote:did the rules of the forum state leave old grievances at the door or is that just for some..lol

nicko wrote:notice how didge dodges off when someone looks like proving him wrong.

PhilDidge wrote:

nicko wrote:notice how didge dodges off when someone looks like proving him wrong.

What you mean like where you thought solving bullying was by buying your way out?

Do grow up Nicko, you are just being silly now over another thread.

My views are my views as others have theirs and all you are doing is trying to stir it up over nothing.

Again my view is both mutilations are wrong, you thinking different does not make you right either

Now I hope you have a good weekend

ALLAKAKA wrote:

heavenly father wrote:did the rules of the forum state leave old grievances at the door or is that just for some..lol

Your lucky you were not attacked by a MILLICENT HOMOSEXUAL on Day one.






    

sphinx wrote:


Our law is more robust than Frances and covers areas the French law does not - the French prosecutors say they would have far more prosecutions and successful ones at that if they had the UK law.

I am not talking outcomes here didge I am talking about the fact that not one single case has been even attempted.

The Bill Roach case is for show - it was 40 years ago and there is no evidence it is he said she said - and nobody knows what the jury are going to do least of all the CPS.  
There are cases of FGM reported to the police with far more solid evidence - like a doctor confirming a girl has had her clitoris removed along with pictures no doubt.
It is illegal to perform this.
It is illegal to go out of the country and allow this to be performed.
It is illegal for a parent to fail to seek medical attention for a child where illness or injury are life threatening or life effecting.

So you have a girl under the age of 15 with mutilated genitals - at the very least that is a charge of failing to seek medical attention.

Yet not one single attempted prosecution.

sphinx wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:



What you mean like where you thought solving bullying was by buying your way out?

Do grow up Nicko, you are just being silly now over another thread.

My views are my views as others have theirs and all you are doing is trying to stir it up over nothing.

Again my view is both mutilations are wrong, you thinking different does not make you right either

Now I hope you have a good weekend

You claim your view is both are wrong but you defend the practise of the authorities of pretending there is nothing they can do to stop FGM and thus give it tacit approval.

PhilDidge wrote:

sphinx wrote:


Our law is more robust than Frances and covers areas the French law does not - the French prosecutors say they would have far more prosecutions and successful ones at that if they had the UK law.

I am not talking outcomes here didge I am talking about the fact that not one single case has been even attempted.

The Bill Roach case is for show - it was 40 years ago and there is no evidence it is he said she said - and nobody knows what the jury are going to do least of all the CPS.  
There are cases of FGM reported to the police with far more solid evidence - like a doctor confirming a girl has had her clitoris removed along with pictures no doubt.
It is illegal to perform this.
It is illegal to go out of the country and allow this to be performed.
It is illegal for a parent to fail to seek medical attention for a child where illness or injury are life threatening or life effecting.

So you have a girl under the age of 15 with mutilated genitals - at the very least that is a charge of failing to seek medical attention.

Yet not one single attempted prosecution.

You just repeated yourself showing again you do not understand the limitations of the law where again I have stated the law needs to change have I not on this same argument where you are repeating things you do not understand. You are dragging out old points already explained to you

Again how many people in France have suffered FGM

You are also wrong as there are 5 cases pending on FGM in this country