Shooting and stabbing at Westminster.

First topic message reminder :

Up to 12 people reportedly injured or dead.

News is still breaking.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/22/man-shot-police-outside-parliament-officer-reportedly-shoots/

Tommy Monk wrote:

Thorin wrote:


No Griffin is racist, because he is against mixed racial unions and is racist scum.
Griffin is racist because he exploited the situation of grooming gangs to use as a political campaign to attempt to get his racist party elected.

It failed, because the BNP did not give a fuck about the victims of child sex abuse. They instead disgustingly used the victims to promote their racist hate.

Their stupidity, even nearly cost one of the cases being thrown out

Where was Nick Griffin or the BNP at the trial of Rolf Harris?

Was he too white for them to protest?

I think the real point is again you defend racist low life scum.

That is the real issue here.

The racist low life scum are the Pakistani Muslim gangs of child rapists...

Without doubt they were and still are racists.

So is Griffin, racists come in many guises.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


The racist low life scum are the Pakistani Muslim gangs of child rapists...

Without doubt they were and still are racists.

So is Griffin, racists come in many guises.

He has a right to hold his views against mass immigration etc... most people agree!!!

He wasn't part of a gang of child rapists... he spoke put against them...

Tommy Monk wrote:

Syl wrote:

Without doubt they were and still are racists.

So is Griffin, racists come in many guises.

He has a right to hold his views against mass immigration etc... most people agree!!!

He wasn't part of a gang of child rapists... he spoke put against them...

But his views against immigration are formed from racism

He has a right to his views and everyone has a right to be critical of him and ridicule him.

Where did he speak out on countless cases where the child sex abusers were white and the cases covered up for years, like in care homes and with celebrities?

Did he suddenly contract tonsillitis, writers cramp etc?

Again he exploited the grooming cases, to promote his hate.

Didge... as soon as those cases came to light, the authorities acted on them...

Bit of a difference...

Tommy Monk wrote:Didge... as soon as those cases came to light, the authorities acted on them...

Bit of a difference...

Really

For years those abused have gone to the Police, social services and not been believed

No difference at all

Jimmy Savile sex attack victims were ignored or laughed at when they revealed at the time that he had sexually abused them, a report has found. Others stayed silent because they were convinced they would not be believed as the radio and TV presenter was such a powerful and influential character.


Some victims were even told they were "lucky someone like Savile had paid them attention", according to the NSPCC report.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jimmy-savile-sex-attack-victims-3178196

Blame those who did the crimes and those who covered them up...


Nothing to do with people who didn't know anything about it...


People in the BBC must have known about it and either covered it up or said nothing... and it was mainly the BBC who were vilifying griffin when he did speak out about the Pakistani Muslim gangs of child rapists...

Tommy Monk wrote:

Blame those who did the crimes and those who covered them up...

On that we both agree.

Maybe you should read this...


https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_31yAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA6&lpg=PA6&dq=nick+griffin+warned+about+Islamist+terrorists&source=bl&ots=KAB0jIjGUa&sig=nRl8e9lGgwPTkBS_YDqaPOw2WyQ&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=nick%20griffin%20warned%20about%20Islamist%20terrorists&f=false

Tommy Monk wrote:Maybe you should read this...


https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_31yAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA6&lpg=PA6&dq=nick+griffin+warned+about+Islamist+terrorists&source=bl&ots=KAB0jIjGUa&sig=nRl8e9lGgwPTkBS_YDqaPOw2WyQ&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=nick%20griffin%20warned%20about%20Islamist%20terrorists&f=false

Sorry, you want me to read "the best of BNP news"?

Sure i have read mein kampf to understand where such hate forms, am sure I can understand from reading this, where such racial hatred forms

Then after reading the part you highlighted. That for some reason a simple educated guess on what would be the future cause of terrorism. Should make me think of him in some new form of light?
He is still a racist low life scum bag. He bases his views on immigration hostility formed from racism.
Are you telling me, you share his views on immigration Tommy?
I mean, you claim you are not racist and I am happy to believe your views to, lets say control immigration. Is miles removed from Nick Griffins views and motives to stop immigration.
So which is it Tommy?

Should he have been arrested for these comments?

Of course not, but sadly at the time, the country was run by illiberals and regressives.

I want you to read the paragraph that is relevant...


In 2004 he warned that the future threat to our national security would be from home grown Islamist terrorists... and was promptly up in court on 'incitement' charges...


It also says that MI5 subsequently released data showing that over a 2 year period, there were 86 prosecutions of islamist terrorists... one every 9 days!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Syl wrote:

Without doubt they were and still are racists.

So is Griffin, racists come in many guises.

He has a right to hold his views against mass immigration etc... most people agree!!!

He wasn't part of a gang of child rapists... he spoke put against them...

Cotrolling mass immigration is one thing, inciting racial hatred is completely different....and not many people did agree with him, he was probably one of the most hated politicians this country has ever had.
Like has been said, he never bothered about the gangs of white child rapists.....just the black ones, he was a hypocritical point scorer.

Tommy Monk wrote:Didge... as soon as those cases came to light, the authorities acted on them...

Bit of a difference...

Saville started his campaign to hurt as many children, terminally ill, vulnerable dead and dying people in the late 50's...he died in 2011 with no charges ever being brought against him.
This in spite of many complaints which were ignored.

Tommy Monk wrote:I want you to read the paragraph that is relevant...


In 2004 he warned that the future threat to our national security would be from home grown Islamist terrorists... and was promptly up in court on 'incitement' charges...


It also says that MI5 subsequently released data showing that over a 2 year period, there were 86 prosecutions of islamist terrorists... one every 9 days!!!

He made a very probable prediction after 9/11 and after the Fertilizer bomb threat in the UK in March 2004.
Nick made this educated guess in June 2004.
Can you show me that at the time, there was no threat to the UK in 2004?
So he then used this to argue against Asians and any immigration
To even argue off your own BNP bible, that has a headline, that London had somehow been ethnically cleansed of White Brits.
Sorry, but where were any White Brits forced to remove themselves from London?

You see, if you read further past what you presented. Its clear the intent and motive of Nick Griffin. Racial hatred.

So again the points stand you did not answer.

He is still a racist low life scum bag. He bases his views on immigration hostility formed from racism.
Are you telling me, you share his views on immigration Tommy?
I mean, you claim you are not racist and I am happy to believe your views to, lets say control immigration. Is miles removed from Nick Griffins views and motives to stop immigration.
So which is it Tommy?

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


He has a right to hold his views against mass immigration etc... most people agree!!!

He wasn't part of a gang of child rapists... he spoke put against them...

Cotrolling mass immigration is one thing, inciting racial hatred is completely different....and not many people did agree with him, he was probably one of the most hated politicians this country has ever had.
Like has been said, he never bothered about the gangs of white child rapists.....just the black ones, he was a hypocritical point scorer.

Where are these huge numbers of white gangs of child rapists that were being covered up for years by local councils and local authorities up and down the country, that griffin knew about but said nothing...!?

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Didge... as soon as those cases came to light, the authorities acted on them...

Bit of a difference...

Saville started his campaign to hurt as many children, terminally ill, vulnerable dead and dying people in the late 50's...he died in 2011 with no charges ever being brought against him.
This in spite of many complaints which were ignored.

By 'came to light' I mean became known to the public...

Thorin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:I want you to read the paragraph that is relevant...


In 2004 he warned that the future threat to our national security would be from home grown Islamist terrorists... and was promptly up in court on 'incitement' charges...


It also says that MI5 subsequently released data showing that over a 2 year period, there were 86 prosecutions of islamist terrorists... one every 9 days!!!

He made a very probable prediction after 9/11 and after the Fertilizer bomb threat in the UK in March 2004.
Nick made this educated guess in June 2004.
Can you show me that at the time, there was no threat to the UK in 2004?
So he then used this to argue against Asians and any immigration
To even argue off your own BNP bible, that has a headline, that London had somehow been ethnically cleansed of White Brits.
Sorry, but where were any White Brits forced to remove themselves from London?

You see, if you read further past what you presented. Its clear the intent and motive of Nick Griffin. Racial hatred.

So again the points stand you did not answer.

He is still a racist low life scum bag. He bases his views on immigration hostility formed from racism.
Are you telling me, you share his views on immigration Tommy?
I mean, you claim you are not racist and I am happy to believe your views to, lets say control immigration. Is miles removed from Nick Griffins views and motives to stop immigration.
So which is it Tommy?

In 2004 he warned that the future threat to our national security would be from home grown Islamist terrorists... and was promptly up in court on 'incitement' charges...


It also says that MI5 subsequently released data showing that over a 2 year period, there were 86 prosecutions of islamist terrorists... one every 9 days!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Syl wrote:

Cotrolling mass immigration is one thing, inciting racial hatred is completely different....and not many people did agree with him, he was probably one of the most hated politicians this country has ever had.
Like has been said, he never bothered about the gangs of white child rapists.....just the black ones, he was a hypocritical point scorer.

Where are these huge numbers of white gangs of child rapists that were being covered up for years by local councils and local authorities up and down the country, that griffin knew about but said nothing...!?

To date, we have named over 52,500 convicted & cautioned UK & Irish child abusers or paedophile’s 

https://theukdatabase.com/




Take your pick from above

How did Nick come to here of Asian grooming gangs?

Rumours?

You telling me he never heard rumours about Jimmy Savillie for example or other child sex offenders?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Thorin wrote:


He made a very probable prediction after 9/11 and after the Fertilizer bomb threat in the UK in March 2004.
Nick made this educated guess in June 2004.
Can you show me that at the time, there was no threat to the UK in 2004?
So he then used this to argue against Asians and any immigration
To even argue off your own BNP bible, that has a headline, that London had somehow been ethnically cleansed of White Brits.
Sorry, but where were any White Brits forced to remove themselves from London?

You see, if you read further past what you presented. Its clear the intent and motive of Nick Griffin. Racial hatred.

So again the points stand you did not answer.

He is still a racist low life scum bag. He bases his views on immigration hostility formed from racism.
Are you telling me, you share his views on immigration Tommy?
I mean, you claim you are not racist and I am happy to believe your views to, lets say control immigration. Is miles removed from Nick Griffins views and motives to stop immigration.
So which is it Tommy?

In 2004 he warned that the future threat to our national security would be from home grown Islamist terrorists... and was promptly up in court on 'incitement' charges...


It also says that MI5 subsequently released data showing that over a 2 year period, there were 86 prosecutions of islamist terrorists... one every 9 days!!!

You just reposted the same thing

Here is my reply

Fail to answer my points and questions, you forfeit the debate

Try again

He made a very probable prediction after 9/11 and after the Fertilizer bomb threat in the UK in March 2004.
Nick made this educated guess in June 2004.
Can you show me that at the time, there was no threat to the UK in 2004?
So he then used this to argue against Asians and any immigration
To even argue off your own BNP bible, that has a headline, that London had somehow been ethnically cleansed of White Brits.
Sorry, but where were any White Brits forced to remove themselves from London?


You see, if you read further past what you presented. Its clear the intent and motive of Nick Griffin. Racial hatred.


So again the points stand you did not answer.


He is still a racist low life scum bag. He bases his views on immigration hostility formed from racism.
Are you telling me, you share his views on immigration Tommy?
I mean, you claim you are not racist and I am happy to believe your views to, lets say control immigration. Is miles removed from Nick Griffins views and motives to stop immigration.
So which is it Tommy?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Syl wrote:



Saville started his campaign to hurt as many children, terminally ill, vulnerable dead and dying people in the late 50's...he died in 2011 with no charges ever being brought against him.
This in spite of many complaints which were ignored.

By 'came to light' I mean became known to the public...

Plenty of the public knew of his goings on..plus nurses, doctors, care workers, fellow BBC workers, police, politicians all his victims. The Manchester taxi drivers association for one got rid of him as a celebrity figure fronting the good work they did for the handicapped.
Whether people knew for sure,had proof, suspected, or simply heard stuff about him....one would have thought that reports of his wrongdoings spread over 50 years in different parts of the country would have spurred the 'authorities' on to investigate him properly.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


By 'came to light' I mean became known to the public...

Plenty of the public knew of his goings on..plus nurses, doctors,  care workers, fellow BBC workers, police, politicians all his victims. The Manchester taxi drivers association for one got rid of him as a celebrity figure fronting the good work they did for the handicapped.
Whether people knew for sure,had proof,  suspected, or simply heard stuff about him....one would have thought that reports of his wrongdoings spread over 50 years in different parts of the country would have spurred the 'authorities' on to investigate him properly.

Yes... I quite agree that there were obviously many who knew and said/did nothing and many others who actively covered it up!!!


I'm asking you to prove the assertion that griffin was one of those who knew but said/did nothing...!?

He was certainly anti establishment and anti bbc... and I think I'm right in saying he has 3/4 daughters... so don't you think that he would have been shouting about saville and others too if he knew...!!!???

Tommy Monk wrote:

Syl wrote:

Plenty of the public knew of his goings on..plus nurses, doctors,  care workers, fellow BBC workers, police, politicians all his victims. The Manchester taxi drivers association for one got rid of him as a celebrity figure fronting the good work they did for the handicapped.
Whether people knew for sure,had proof,  suspected, or simply heard stuff about him....one would have thought that reports of his wrongdoings spread over 50 years in different parts of the country would have spurred the 'authorities' on to investigate him properly.

Yes... I quite agree that there were obviously many who knew and said/did nothing and many others who actively covered it up!!!


I'm asking you to prove the assertion that griffin was one of those who knew but said/did nothing...!?

He was certainly anti establishment and anti bbc... and I think I'm right in saying he has 3/4 daughters... so don't you think that he would have been shouting about saville and others too if he knew...!!!???

And I am asking you how Nick Griffin claimed to know about grooming gangs.
Did he at any point have victims come forward to him and he then present them to the media with their stories, backing them?
Can you find any situation of this Tommy, with Nick Griffin even showing care to even one victim?
So he comes to hear about one cover up and you are telling me he does not hear about or know of others?

He is racist pure and simple and by claiming to fight for the victims, how many did he actually meet and champion their cause or fund?

Zero by any chance out of thousands of victims?

You seem to be trying desperately for people to see Nick as some sort of hero here, to defend against his racism. Just because he spoke out on a crime and was right, does not make his other views right, does it?
Does Ann Cryer being right, make all of her other Labour views right?
It must do so based on your view to defend Nick here.

So again, how and why on earth are you defending racist scum like Nick Griffin?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Syl wrote:

Plenty of the public knew of his goings on..plus nurses, doctors,  care workers, fellow BBC workers, police, politicians all his victims. The Manchester taxi drivers association for one got rid of him as a celebrity figure fronting the good work they did for the handicapped.
Whether people knew for sure,had proof,  suspected, or simply heard stuff about him....one would have thought that reports of his wrongdoings spread over 50 years in different parts of the country would have spurred the 'authorities' on to investigate him properly.

Yes... I quite agree that there were obviously many who knew and said/did nothing and many others who actively covered it up!!!


I'm asking you to prove the assertion that griffin was one of those who knew but said/did nothing...!?

He was certainly anti establishment and anti bbc... and I think I'm right in saying he has 3/4 daughters... so don't you think that he would have been shouting about saville and others too if he knew...!!!???

After Saville died and his past was all over the papers.....did Griffin ever comment? His comments often made good news fodder.
Or didn't his rightful disgust of paedophilia stretch to anyone white?[/quote]

So... nobody can show that griffin knew but said/did nothing...!?


He was condemned for speaking out about the Pakistani Muslim gangs of child rapists... that he obviously had found out about...


And here he is condemned for not speaking out about saville... although there is no evidence that he EVER DID know about it before it became public knowledge...!!!???



Did any of you speak out about saville before you knew anything about it...!?

You must be protectors of white pedophiles then...!!!


Idiocy!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:So... nobody can show that griffin knew but said/did nothing...!?


He was condemned for speaking out about the Pakistani Muslim gangs of child rapists... that he obviously had found out about...


And here he is condemned for not speaking out about saville... although there is no evidence that he EVER DID know about it before it became public knowledge...!!!???



Did any of you speak out about saville before you knew anything about it...!?

You must be protectors of white pedophiles then...!!!


Idiocy!!!

So you have conceded the debate it seems.

That is 3 posts you ran away from

So again

And I am asking you how Nick Griffin claimed to know about grooming gangs.
Did he at any point have victims come forward to him and he then present them to the media with their stories, backing them?
Can you find any situation of this Tommy, with Nick Griffin even showing care to even one victim?
So he comes to hear about one cover up and you are telling me he does not hear about or know of others?

He is racist pure and simple and by claiming to fight for the victims, how many did he actually meet and champion their cause or fund?

Zero by any chance out of thousands of victims?

You seem to be trying desperately for people to see Nick as some sort of hero here, to defend against his racism. Just because he spoke out on a crime and was right, does not make his other views right, does it?
Does Ann Cryer being right, make all of her other Labour views right?
It must do so based on your view to defend Nick here.

So again, how and why on earth are you defending racist scum like Nick Griffin?

Don't be a twat dodge...

Tommy Monk wrote:Don't be a twat dodge...

And when Tommy is faced with reason from me he cannot counter with, what does he do?

Start with abuse.

Its shows he is emotive and angry at having been shown one of his heroes is nothing  more than racist scum.
Now if Tommy wants me to believe he is not racist. He is certainly only ever making me right in beliveing he is.
I mean who argues off somebody being right on something. With  the view, that everything they also say, has to be right. This is what Tommy is presenting here to defend racist scum.
What Tommy never asks himself once is this. If Nick Griffin had not been racist, would he have made a difference?

No

Because nobody believed a Labour MP who had no racist bone in her body.

And yet Tommy wants to hail Nick Griffin?

For what?

Exploiting the victims, for promoting his own racial hate?

I rest my case

The victims were exploited by the perpetrators... and enabled by the vast swathes of people in positions of power across local govt and authorities...


Griffin found out about it... and rightly spoke out about it... then was wrongly vilified for telling the truth!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:The victims were exploited by the perpetrators... and enabled by the vast swathes of people in positions of power across local govt and authorities...


Griffin found out about it... and rightly spoke out about it... then was wrongly vilified for telling the truth!!!

Avoided again I see by Tommy.

So Griffin found out, spoke out and never helped a single victim

Is that wrong to vilify him, when he claims to champion the victims of abuse?

So again, is being right on a claim, a view to then believe all other claims made by said person?

Of course not, but Tommy is arguing off this.

So again

And I am asking you how Nick Griffin claimed to know about grooming gangs.
Did he at any point have victims come forward to him and he then present them to the media with their stories, backing them?
Can you find any situation of this Tommy, with Nick Griffin even showing care to even one victim?
So he comes to hear about one cover up and you are telling me he does not hear about or know of others?

He is racist pure and simple and by claiming to fight for the victims, how many did he actually meet and champion their cause or fund?

Zero by any chance out of thousands of victims?

You seem to be trying desperately for people to see Nick as some sort of hero here, to defend against his racism. Just because he spoke out on a crime and was right, does not make his other views right, does it?
Does Ann Cryer being right, make all of her other Labour views right?
It must do so based on your view to defend Nick here.

So again, how and why on earth are you defending racist scum like Nick Griffin?

I mean who argues off somebody being right on something. With  the view, that everything they also say, has to be right. This is what Tommy is presenting here to defend racist scum.
What Tommy never asks himself once is this. If Nick Griffin had not been racist, would he have made a difference?

No

Because nobody believed a Labour MP who had no racist bone in her body.

And yet Tommy wants to hail Nick Griffin?

For what?

Exploiting the victims, for promoting his own racial hate?

I rest my case

Griffin helped all of them by speaking out... where others in the establishment of local govts and local authorities actively covered it up...


You need to start naming and shaming those responsible for the abuse and those responsible for covering it all up... not trying to vilify the person who spoke out about it all...!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:Griffin helped all of them by speaking out... where others in the establishment of local govts and local authorities actively covered it up...


You need to start naming and shaming those responsible for the abuse and those responsible for covering it all up... not trying to vilify the person who spoke out about it all...!!!

So he saved zero by speaking out

He saved zero but not even publicly defending anyone individually.

He never gave any money or say he would pay the costs for any victim of grooming

I would join you in shaming those that covered up these crimes Tommy, you have my blessing on that.

Will you join me, cutting aside your poor excuses to defend a racist in Nick and declare the BNP and Nick Griffin are racist? As that would go a long way to prove your haters wrong. That you are not racist.

Over to you Tommy

I don't think anything we have discussed here about griffin, provides any evidence of him being 'racist'...


I think it is you who should apologise for asserting that he is a 'racist', for merely telling the truth...!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:
I don't think anything we have discussed here about griffin, provides any evidence of him being 'racist'...


I think it is you who should apologise for asserting that he is a 'racist', for merely telling the truth...!!!

Well both Nick and Ann Cryer told the truth.
Neither saved any girl from abuse

Tell everyone again why you hero worship a racist in Nick. Who never changed anything

But you are only accusing one of them of racism... and you are not accusing any of the countless number of those in authorities who covered it up, as anti white racists or pro Pakistani/Muslim racists...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:But you are only accusing one of them of racism... and you are not accusing any of the countless number of those in authorities who covered it up, as anti white racists or pro Pakistani/Muslim racists...!?

Really?

I expose those hateful on left or right

The Far left are the biggest antisemites

But not all of themn

So why do you run from views Tommy?

Are you finally admitting that the Nazis were far left...?

Good!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:Are you finally admitting that the Nazis were far left...?

Good!!!

Nope

You are admitting you are Far Right

Take your time

Night Tommy

Thorin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Are you finally admitting that the Nazis were far left...?

Good!!!

Nope

You are admitting you are Far Right

Take your time

Night Tommy

How's that dodge...!?


I support the truth... regardless of who says it...!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Nope

You are admitting you are Far Right

Take your time

Night Tommy

How's that dodge...!?


I support the truth... regardless of who says it...!

You support the truth?

What is this truth, when you advocate and defend those who are motivated by racism?

Does one truth, make 999 lies truthful to you?

Example, the mythical claim to ethnic cleansing of white Brits from London, by the BNP?

It seems you only want to hear the truth, based on where you agree with something and not on facts. As are you claiming London has been ethnically cleansed of white Brits?

Take your time on that.

I also note when you are angry and upset. You change from being nice and calling me didge, to calling me a twat and dodge. You have anger issues boy and you have the balls to moan at Wolf, when as seen here, you are worse?

You have many points to answer that you have avoided throughout.

Take your time
I am in no rush for you to tackle them, if of course you can.

Did griffin speak out about the existence of Pakistani Muslim gangs of child rapists across the UK back in 2003/4...!?


Was he right...!!!???


That is all.

Was Nick Griffin right to be racist in 2004?

No

Did Nick Griffin actually help any of the victims?

No

And Tommy runs away again

Griffin was hauled up in court for trumped up incitement charges for speaking the truth... and found not guilty... twice!!!

And?

Is he still a racist low life, who is now moving to Hungary (the irony)?

Yes