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4 Bearded Asians Removed From A Flight

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Raggamuffin
Original Quill
Syl
Ben Reilly
Tommy Monk
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Post by Original Quill Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:20 pm

Major wrote:An USA Texas pro Muslim site, ya could not make it up.

You're a legend in your own mind, Maj... Razz

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Post by Original Quill Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:23 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Be serious.  The loud ones, according to the story, were the women in front of them.  Apparently, they were just tossing some jokes or quips back to them...all in good spirits.

The allegation of any wrongdoing came from the crew, who seemed not to like Muslims.  Everybody else was having a fine time.  End of...  

We've seen it all before.

Well whoever was being loud should have been reprimanded at once. There's far too much noise pollution around.

Rubbish. Any other time the airlines encourage passengers to socialize and have a good time. This was all ideologically sprung, and it was profiling of the simplest kind.

Good god! The stews can't even get their lies straight with one another. Bush league!

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Post by Original Quill Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:24 pm

Major wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

She was addressing you.  I happened to agree with her.  There's no misunderstanding.

My word, eddie said that without moving her lipz.

It wasn't eds. Read the Avvies.

Major wrote:Where did I call Wolfie "lowlife"? OQ

Over on Misc.

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Post by Original Quill Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:26 pm

Major wrote:
Ya cannot take the truth, OQ. along with your pro Muslim gang.

In your own mind, Maj. Razz You just don't know how to support your claims with substance. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:32 pm

Major wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Tommy, if stupidity were a crime you'd have been locked up long ago.

If asslicking, being pro Muslim was a crime you would be have been locked up long ago.

How can you stick up for Muslims after 911? Ben, you should invent a rule about it.

What are you even talking about -- did the ENTIRE Muslim WORLD commit the 9/11 attacks?
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Post by Raggamuffin Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:36 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well whoever was being loud should have been reprimanded at once. There's far too much noise pollution around.

Rubbish.  Any other time the airlines encourage passengers to socialize and have a good time.  This was all ideologically sprung, and it was profiling of the simplest kind.  

Good god!  The stews can't even get their lies straight with one another.  Bush league!

Well they shouldn't encourage them! People should sit quietly and read a book or something. It's not a playground.
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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:53 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


How am I stupid...!?


Give us some examples of things I've said that are stupid...?



The positions of the stars in the sky have shifted, homosexuality is unnatural, gravity isn't a universal force, climate change is a hoax, there are significant genetic differences between people of different races, the UK will be allowed to trade in the single EU market without allowing free movement ... that's just off the top of my head.


I didn't say stars had shifted... but all are moving through space...


Homosexuality is indeed going against the normal and natural way of the biological design and purpose of our reproductive organs and the basis of attraction being between opposite sexes...


Gravity varies even here on earth's surface at different places... and is a variable force throughout the rest of the universe depending on other factors...


The climate is always changing... depending on solar activity and distance from the sun...


There are genetic differences.


All other countries around the world are able to trade with the single market without being in the eu... or having free movement...



I keep telling you these same truths... and you keep showing your stupidity by failing to understand what I'm saying!!!
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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:56 pm

Keep going! Laughing
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Post by Original Quill Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:00 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

The positions of the stars in the sky have shifted, homosexuality is unnatural, gravity isn't a universal force, climate change is a hoax, there are significant genetic differences between people of different races, the UK will be allowed to trade in the single EU market without allowing free movement ... that's just off the top of my head.

I didn't say stars had shifted... but all are moving through space...

Homosexuality is indeed going against the normal and natural way of the biological design and purpose of our reproductive organs and the basis of attraction being between opposite sexes...

Gravity varies even here on earth's surface at different places... and is a variable force throughout the rest of the universe depending on other factors...

The climate is always changing... depending on solar activity and distance from the sun...

There are genetic differences.

All other countries around the world are able to trade with the single market without being in the eu... or having free movement...

I keep telling you these same truths... and you keep showing your stupidity by failing to understand what I'm saying!!!

4 Bearded Asians Removed From A Flight - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRvP9BYsq1HYYH5vwEuI89bnqDbEeria7jsWwQ3l9EIIFhGtZPv

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:01 pm

Keep going what...?


I just clarified my position on the things I said... after you misrepresented all of them in your earlier claim...



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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:08 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Keep going what...?


I just clarified my position on the things I said... after you misrepresented all of them in your earlier claim...




Yeah, clear as mud Chief. I just meant, share more of your wisdom Smile
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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:13 pm



I've given you enough for you to try to disprove already today...


Come back when you have managed to be able to prove any of it to be wrong...


Or apologise...!
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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:14 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

I've given you enough for you to try to disprove already today...


Come back when you have managed to be able to prove any of it to be wrong...


Or apologise...!

I'm sorry for showing everyone what a dummy you are. Happy?

You misunderstand the nature of this -- since you're providing the crank theories that fly in the face of science, you're the one who has to prove you're right.
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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:15 pm

Oh wait, don't you think the moon landing was a hoax as well?
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Post by Raggamuffin Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:18 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

I've given you enough for you to try to disprove already today...


Come back when you have managed to be able to prove any of it to be wrong...


Or apologise...!

I'm sorry for showing everyone what a dummy you are. Happy?

You misunderstand the nature of this -- since you're providing the crank theories that fly in the face of science, you're the one who has to prove you're right.

I don't think Tommy is a dummy. At least he can think outside of the box, and doesn't follow everyone else like lefties do.
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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:21 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

I've given you enough for you to try to disprove already today...


Come back when you have managed to be able to prove any of it to be wrong...


Or apologise...!

I'm sorry for showing everyone what a dummy you are. Happy?

You misunderstand the nature of this -- since you're providing the crank theories that fly in the face of science, you're the one who has to prove you're right.

I don't think Tommy is a dummy. At least he can think outside of the box, and doesn't follow everyone else like lefties do.

There is nothing great about rejecting the consensus view on everything just because it doesn't agree with your own hateful worldview. In fact, it makes you an intolerable jackass.
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Post by eddie Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:25 pm

Major wrote:An USA Texas pro Muslim site, ya could not make it up.

You just did.

And yes, I did call you racist. I think you are sometimes.
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Post by Raggamuffin Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:31 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't think Tommy is a dummy. At least he can think outside of the box, and doesn't follow everyone else like lefties do.

There is nothing great about rejecting the consensus view on everything just because it doesn't agree with your own hateful worldview. In fact, it makes you an intolerable jackass.

Well now you're just being intolerant - as usual.
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Post by Raggamuffin Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:35 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

That's not a very logical remark is it?
Sitting 6 rows away in a crowded plane would make it impossible to see much less hear whats going on.
The cabin crew are in a much better position to judge how passengers are behaving not a woman sat 6 rows away.
Odd that no other people sitting alongside them, or 1,2,3,4,5 rows away didn't come to their defence?

The seat pitch on low cost carriers can be as low as 28 inches (71 cm).  Seating 6-rows away, considering seat-back to front-of-seat, or that is 5 rows, or 140-inches away, puts Ms. Clarke less than 15-feet, or 4.57 meters away from the men.

Compare that to cabin staff, who are usually half a plane away, tucked around the corner in the kitchen cabin, or leaning in between the muffling seats, concerned with other passengers ordering meals, etc., I would have to say it's understandable that the stews were making up their stories.

These low-budget airlines pay low-rent wages, so it's understandable that they are going to get UKIP-type employees.  I think we can all see what this story is about.

Are you suggesting that people on low pay are members of UKIP? That's quite a leap. You appear to be looking down on those on low pay, which is disgraceful and bigoted.
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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:36 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

I've given you enough for you to try to disprove already today...


Come back when you have managed to be able to prove any of it to be wrong...


Or apologise...!

I'm sorry for showing everyone what a dummy you are. Happy?

You misunderstand the nature of this -- since you're providing the crank theories that fly in the face of science, you're the one who has to prove you're right.


I'm not providing any crank theories at all... and science actually proves me right...!


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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:38 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't think Tommy is a dummy. At least he can think outside of the box, and doesn't follow everyone else like lefties do.

There is nothing great about rejecting the consensus view on everything just because it doesn't agree with your own hateful worldview. In fact, it makes you an intolerable jackass.


Says the fool who thinks little boys should wear fairy dresses which is a rejection of the consensus view that dresses are for girls...
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Post by eddie Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:40 pm

You do sound like a robot Tommy. You do realise that?
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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:41 pm



When talking about facts eddie... it's best to leave emotion out of it...
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Post by HoratioTarr Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:42 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

There is nothing great about rejecting the consensus view on everything just because it doesn't agree with your own hateful worldview. In fact, it makes you an intolerable jackass.


Says the fool who thinks little boys should wear fairy dresses which is a rejection of the consensus view that dresses are for girls...

You know, up until the early 20th century, little boys and girls all wore dresses. A boy wore a dress until the age of 'breeching' and that could be up to age 8.
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Post by Raggamuffin Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:45 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

There is nothing great about rejecting the consensus view on everything just because it doesn't agree with your own hateful worldview. In fact, it makes you an intolerable jackass.


Says the fool who thinks little boys should wear fairy dresses which is a rejection of the consensus view that dresses are for girls...

Good point Tommy. Laughing
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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:55 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


Says the fool who thinks little boys should wear fairy dresses which is a rejection of the consensus view that dresses are for girls...

You know, up until the early 20th century, little boys and girls all wore dresses.   A boy wore a dress until the age of 'breeching' and that could be up to age 8.


Not normal practice in the wider vast majority of society...


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Post by veya_victaous Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:36 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


Says the fool who thinks little boys should wear fairy dresses which is a rejection of the consensus view that dresses are for girls...

You know, up until the early 20th century, little boys and girls all wore dresses.   A boy wore a dress until the age of 'breeching' and that could be up to age 8.


Not normal practice in the wider vast majority of society...




yes it was, go read a book tommy. your an embarrasment

 IN ENGLAND males did not wear pants as children they all wore 'smocks' or 'tunics'  cheap and easily adjustiable as the body grows BY far the most widely worn childhood garment in Europe over the past 3,000 years
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Post by eddie Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:38 pm

Veya we all know this but Tommy is in denial.
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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:42 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

There is nothing great about rejecting the consensus view on everything just because it doesn't agree with your own hateful worldview. In fact, it makes you an intolerable jackass.


Says the fool who thinks little boys should wear fairy dresses which is a rejection of the consensus view that dresses are for girls...

Good point Tommy. Laughing

Not actually a good point at all -- Tommy's comparing apples to oranges.

As HT pointed out, societal values aren't constant -- and there's no reason we should slavishly follow them, besides. Norms of dress have always changed -- in my own country it was a scandal for a gentleman to be seen in public not wearing a suit and hat just 50 years ago or so.

Things like gravitational force, climate change, the positions of heavenly objects in the night sky on particular dates -- they don't change on the basis of human attitudes. They're there, outside of us, and changing our minds about them can't change a damn thing.
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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:40 pm



4 Bearded Asians Removed From A Flight - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcScF99mltsnRoP0oY8J0E1n9kNiIV-S6piWyPtB-_wdqxpYzB9STQ


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Post by eddie Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:42 pm

Photoshopped!!

Look at the girl on the right......!!

Her foot has fallen off.......!!
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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:27 am





Not a fairy dress in sight...


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Post by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:43 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

4 Bearded Asians Removed From A Flight - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcScF99mltsnRoP0oY8J0E1n9kNiIV-S6piWyPtB-_wdqxpYzB9STQ



4 Bearded Asians Removed From A Flight - Page 2 6cboysdressesstacy

U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt as a young boy:

4 Bearded Asians Removed From A Flight - Page 2 Franklin-roosevelt

JFK Jr. on the right:

4 Bearded Asians Removed From A Flight - Page 2 Kennedy_440_7

Boy's on the right:

4 Bearded Asians Removed From A Flight - Page 2 10c4c44b6e1b9b007ebe3b2faf6b3e1f_full

Here, just look at this link: https://www.google.com/search?q=boys+used+to+wear+dresses&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwimrcyb48fPAhUMTCYKHTzBCAMQ_AUICSgC&biw=1920&bih=970

This is why I get on Tommy. I don't call him a dummy to hurt his feelings, I'm just stating the truth. He is so deeply ignorant about just about every facet of life and yet feels entitled to spread his hateful ignorance everywhere.
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Post by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:46 am

Oh, in Middle English, "girl" was a term that applied to young children of either gender:

1250-1300; Middle English gurle, girle, gerle child, young person; compare Old English gyrela, gi (e) rela, item of dress, apparel (presumably worn by the young in late OE period, and hence used as a metonym)

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/girl
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Post by Original Quill Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:04 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

The seat pitch on low cost carriers can be as low as 28 inches (71 cm).  Seating 6-rows away, considering seat-back to front-of-seat, or that is 5 rows, or 140-inches away, puts Ms. Clarke less than 15-feet, or 4.57 meters away from the men.

Compare that to cabin staff, who are usually half a plane away, tucked around the corner in the kitchen cabin, or leaning in between the muffling seats, concerned with other passengers ordering meals, etc., I would have to say it's understandable that the stews were making up their stories.

These low-budget airlines pay low-rent wages, so it's understandable that they are going to get UKIP-type employees.  I think we can all see what this story is about.

Are you suggesting that people on low pay are members of UKIP? That's quite a leap. You appear to be looking down on those on low pay, which is disgraceful and bigoted.

"I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant that stupid persons are generally Conservative." —John Stuart Mill

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Post by Raggamuffin Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:59 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


Not normal practice in the wider vast majority of society...




yes it was, go read a book tommy. your an embarrasment

 IN ENGLAND males did not wear pants as children they all wore 'smocks' or 'tunics'  cheap and easily adjustiable as the body grows BY far the most widely worn childhood garment in Europe over the past 3,000 years

No
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Post by Raggamuffin Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:02 am

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Are you suggesting that people on low pay are members of UKIP? That's quite a leap. You appear to be looking down on those on low pay, which is disgraceful and bigoted.

"I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant that stupid persons are generally Conservative." —John Stuart Mill

Let's have your own words to explain your bigoted and arrogant post. Don't hide away behind the words of another person.
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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:21 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

4 Bearded Asians Removed From A Flight - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcScF99mltsnRoP0oY8J0E1n9kNiIV-S6piWyPtB-_wdqxpYzB9STQ



4 Bearded Asians Removed From A Flight - Page 2 6cboysdressesstacy

U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt as a young boy:

4 Bearded Asians Removed From A Flight - Page 2 Franklin-roosevelt

JFK Jr. on the right:

4 Bearded Asians Removed From A Flight - Page 2 Kennedy_440_7

Boy's on the right:

4 Bearded Asians Removed From A Flight - Page 2 10c4c44b6e1b9b007ebe3b2faf6b3e1f_full

Here, just look at this link: https://www.google.com/search?q=boys+used+to+wear+dresses&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwimrcyb48fPAhUMTCYKHTzBCAMQ_AUICSgC&biw=1920&bih=970

This is why I get on Tommy. I don't call him a dummy to hurt his feelings, I'm just stating the truth. He is so deeply ignorant about just about every facet of life and yet feels entitled to spread his hateful ignorance everywhere.


Not for the vast majority in wider society in this country...


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Post by Original Quill Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:32 pm

Tommy Mosk wrote:Not for the vast majority in wider society in this country...

4 Bearded Asians Removed From A Flight - Page 2 4a047a5c7bdf03b2186cd8e677d53dcc

I see...

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Post by Original Quill Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:34 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

"I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant that stupid persons are generally Conservative." —John Stuart Mill

Let's have your own words to explain your bigoted and arrogant post. Don't hide away behind the words of another person.

Okay, here's one I made up: If the knickers fit, wear them! Razz

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Post by The Devil, You Know Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:23 pm

Original Quill wrote:Thomas Cook airlines?  Shoulda flown Imil Schwartz.  What's with these (dare I say it?) fly-by-night airlines?  

At first they are accused of saying the word 'bomb' and then they were accused of playing a song on the phone, which did not have WiFi??  Can't the stews at least get together and work out their lies?  

Apparently, they weren't even disruptive:

Daily Mail wrote:Pamela Clarke, 55, from Sheffield, who was sitting six rows away, said: 'I never heard anything about bombs. There was no bad behaviour or anything like that from them. There was a group of women in front of them who were extremely drunk and loud but not them.'

So, it was a classic case of profiling, nothing more.  This is what you get under the leadership vacuum of the Right.  Just make up any story and call the cops.  When lies compete with the truth for equal legitimacy, people just make up stories...no need to bother with facts.


I play lots of songs on my phone without wifi. In fact I never stream music.
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Post by The Devil, You Know Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:28 pm

Original Quill wrote:Thomas Cook airlines?  Shoulda flown Imil Schwartz.  What's with these (dare I say it?) fly-by-night airlines?  

At first they are accused of saying the word 'bomb' and then they were accused of playing a song on the phone, which did not have WiFi??  Can't the stews at least get together and work out their lies?  

Apparently, they weren't even disruptive:

Daily Mail wrote:Pamela Clarke, 55, from Sheffield, who was sitting six rows away, said: 'I never heard anything about bombs. There was no bad behaviour or anything like that from them. There was a group of women in front of them who were extremely drunk and loud but not them.'

So, it was a classic case of profiling, nothing more.  This is what you get under the leadership vacuum of the Right.  Just make up any story and call the cops.  When lies compete with the truth for equal legitimacy, people just make up stories...no need to bother with facts.


so who are lying exactly. the woman you mentioned may well not have heard anything, that doesn't mean there was nothing to hear, it just means she heard nothing. she is telling her truth, it doesn't mean it is the only truth, other said they heard song about bombs. one thing anyone with half a brain knows these days is not to mention bombs or guns when travelling by plane. Those sort of jokes can get you arrested and in this case did.
there is nothing wrong with profiling as it is unlikely a 5 year old little white girl is likely to hijack a plane.
Had they complied with the airline staffs requests then they wouldn't have been arrested, I doubt airlines refuse to take people on a whim. They had to get a flight back on a different airline.
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Post by The Devil, You Know Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:30 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


How am I stupid...!?


Give us some examples of things I've said that are stupid...?



The positions of the stars in the sky have shifted, homosexuality is unnatural, gravity isn't a universal force, climate change is a hoax, there are significant genetic differences between people of different races, the UK will be allowed to trade in the single EU market without allowing free movement ... that's just off the top of my head.
america is attempting to gain a free trade deal with the single market, are they now going to open up their borders to unlimited migration from europe?

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Post by The Devil, You Know Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:39 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


How am I stupid...!?


Give us some examples of things I've said that are stupid...?



The positions of the stars in the sky have shifted as seen from a fixed point in space, homosexuality is unnatural, gravity isn't a universal force, climate change is a hoax, there are significant genetic differences between people of different races, the UK will be allowed to trade in the single EU market without allowing free movement ... that's just off the top of my head.
the position of the stars in the sky have shifted over time and they continue to shift day by day,
homosexuality is unnatural in a biological sense. Sex is for procreation, homosexual sex serves no purpose biologically. I am not saying homosexuals are unnatural by the way before you have a fit.
He probably should have said man made climate change is a hoax, although I would prefer the word con. if it was so significant all those green taxes would be going on research for greener energy sources. they aren't, they are being spent on redistribution of wealth and filling black holes in budgets.
there are some genetic differences between races, significant may be a bit of a stretch.
I'm not sure what context he was referring to gravity, although it is pretty much the weakest force in the universe.


Last edited by The Devil, You Know on Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by The Devil, You Know Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:41 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

The positions of the stars in the sky have shifted, homosexuality is unnatural, gravity isn't a universal force, climate change is a hoax, there are significant genetic differences between people of different races, the UK will be allowed to trade in the single EU market without allowing free movement ... that's just off the top of my head.


I didn't say stars had shifted... but all are moving through space...


Homosexuality is indeed going against the normal and natural way of the biological design and purpose of our reproductive organs and the basis of attraction being between opposite sexes...


Gravity varies even here on earth's surface at different places... and is a variable force throughout the rest of the universe depending on other factors...


The climate is always changing... depending on solar activity and distance from the sun...


There are genetic differences.


All other countries around the world are able to trade with the single market without being in the eu... or having free movement...



I keep telling you these same truths... and you keep showing your stupidity by failing to understand what I'm saying!!!
you seem to have answered the points he raised in almost the same manner.
qed we are the same person.

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Post by The Devil, You Know Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:44 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

I've given you enough for you to try to disprove already today...


Come back when you have managed to be able to prove any of it to be wrong...


Or apologise...!

I'm sorry for showing everyone what a dummy you are. Happy?

You misunderstand the nature of this -- since you're providing the crank theories that fly in the face of science, you're the one who has to prove you're right.
you might need to clarify how you showed anything. you haven't made a point to refute any of his points
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Post by The Devil, You Know Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:44 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:Oh wait, don't you think the moon landing was a hoax as well?
now that is stupid I agree
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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:46 pm

I'm not convinced the moon landings happened... in fact there is considerable evidence to the contrary...
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