Oregon Family Files Discrimination Lawsuit After Being Removed From United Airlines Flight Over Autistic Daughter

A Oregon family are filing a discrimination lawsuit after being kicked off a United Airlines plane because the pilot refused to fly with their autistic daughter on board.
After returning home to Portland after a family holiday to DisneyWorld in Orlando on Tuesday, Dr Donna Beegle was escorted off the plane along with her husband and their 15-year-old daughter Juliette and her brother.
Dr Beegle said the family was about an hour into their flight when she noticed a tell-tale sign from her daughter that her behaviour was about to change. She had refused to eat her packed lunch, so the family asked if they could purchase a hot meal from the first-class menu to calm her down.


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05/10/autistic-united-airlines_n_7251888.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Bit of a shame that mum didn't prepare for the flight and take all she needed to keep daughter calm.
More to this I think, she may scratch someone is an odd thing to say?

Nems wrote:Bit of a shame that mum didn't prepare for the flight and take all she needed to keep daughter calm.
More to this I think, she may scratch someone is an odd thing to say?

There are many more aspects to learn here, but was the actions of the pilot justified?

Nemesis wrote:

Nems wrote:Bit of a shame that mum didn't prepare for the flight and take all she needed to keep daughter calm.
More to this I think, she may scratch someone is an odd thing to say?

There are many more aspects to learn here, but was the actions of the pilot justified?

If he thought it was in the best interests of the passengers and crew then of course he was. Considering what it costs to divert he wont have done it lightly.

Nems wrote:

Nemesis wrote:


There are many more aspects to learn here, but was the actions of the pilot justified?

If he thought it was in the best interests of the passengers and crew then of course he was. Considering what it costs to divert he wont have done it lightly.

But she was calm after eating. If she had kicked off, then he would have good reason and there was no reason to in reality delay this flight and have them removed. The pilot made a very poor decision here, because he is not medically qualified for a start to make such a judgement and hence why the Airline will no doubt lose big here based off his poor judgement.

Nemesis wrote:

Nems wrote:


If he thought it was in the best interests of the passengers and crew then of course he was. Considering what it costs to divert he wont have done it lightly.

But she was calm after eating. If she had kicked off, then he would have good reason and there was no reason to in reality delay this flight and have them removed. The pilot made a very poor decision here, because he is not medically qualified for a start to make such a judgement and hence why the Airline will no doubt lose big here based off his poor judgement.

Mmm I think it was a bit poor of mum to be so ill prepared. It was very poor of mum to say what she did. Why not just say she is autistic and will get upset? Its poor to question the pilot as we only know half a story. He would be a poor pilot if he did not prioritise the safety of the plane. I also think its very poor form of them to try and make money out of their daughter.

Nems wrote:

Nemesis wrote:


But she was calm after eating. If she had kicked off, then he would have good reason and there was no reason to in reality delay this flight and have them removed. The pilot made a very poor decision here, because he is not medically qualified for a start to make such a judgement and hence why the Airline will no doubt lose big here based off his poor judgement.

Mmm I think it was a bit poor of mum to be so ill prepared. It was very poor of mum to say what she did. Why not just say she is autistic and will get upset? Its poor to question the pilot as we only know half a story. He would be a poor pilot if he did not prioritise the safety of the plane. I also think its very poor form of them to try and make money out of their daughter.

How does a mum prepare for a hot meal for a flight, when the facilities are already in place for this on flights? The pilot only made a decision based off the views of his attendants. So clearly there is room for massive era of judgement here, because again a flight attendant is not qualified either. So the pilot has not gone off any reaction by the child but off a fear she might react and as seen she did not react in the end. At the end of the day the attendants are paid to accommodate passengers, of which this was a reasonable request. What happened was an over reaction by the flight attendants to the pilot who then made an ill informed decision based off his attendant. Why is it poor? Have you ever been so embarrassed to have a plane land and then have you escorted off the plane for no valid reason? I would sue them for everything they have got

Its very poor of the mother to not prepare adequately. She must know what distracts and calms her daughter.
I wouldn't have been escorted from the plane because I wouldn't have expected everyone to run around to my wishes. Very poor planning. Aren't you always banging on that we shouldn't expect everything handed to us but exercise personal responsibility??
Oh and Didge ... at the end of the day ...it goes dark. Very poor deflection based on your inability to counter my evidence based posts. You lose I win ha ha get over it son.
Very poor

Nems wrote:Its very poor of the mother to not prepare adequately. She must know what distracts and calms her daughter.
I wouldn't have been escorted from the plane  because I wouldn't have expected everyone to run around to my wishes. Very poor planning. Aren't you always banging on that we shouldn't expect everything handed to us but exercise personal responsibility??
Oh and Didge ... at the end of the day ...it goes dark. Very poor deflection based on your inability to counter my evidence based posts. You lose I win ha ha get over it son.
Very poor

You are just making the same unfounded claims.
The mother did exactly know and informed the flight attendants to prepare a hot meal which did calm her daughter down. So you are saying that on flights they should never try to accommodate passengers if they have specific needs then? Well I am glad you do not run any companies as they would go bust very fast.
So your counter was at best pathetic if I am being honest. She never kicked off and the pilot made an ill informed decision, based on fear.
So I agree your counter was very poor, as it backs a pilot to make a decision based off fear, and not of something actually happening.
But then Nems in most argument you do use the "I am the perfect Mum" aspect to try and big yourself up on a forum and as seen here it falls utterly flat

I've been reading about this. It does seem like an overreaction, but disruption on planes is a bit of a no-no these days. Saying that the girl would have a meltdown or whatever was a bit stupid.

It's also a bit arrogant to demand that crew are trained the way she wants them to be trained.

Raggamuffin wrote:I've been reading about this. It does seem like an overreaction, but disruption on planes is a bit of a no-no these days. Saying that the girl would have a meltdown or whatever was a bit stupid.

It's also a bit arrogant to demand that crew are trained the way she wants them to be trained.

Was it a reasonable request to help a child with special needs?
Yes
So that is not being arrogant, it is actually thinking of everyone on board the plane including the flight attendants

Nemesis wrote:

Nems wrote:Its very poor of the mother to not prepare adequately. She must know what distracts and calms her daughter.
I wouldn't have been escorted from the plane  because I wouldn't have expected everyone to run around to my wishes. Very poor planning. Aren't you always banging on that we shouldn't expect everything handed to us but exercise personal responsibility??
Oh and Didge ... at the end of the day ...it goes dark. Very poor deflection based on your inability to counter my evidence based posts. You lose I win ha ha get over it son.
Very poor

You are just making the same unfounded claims.
The mother did exactly know and informed the flight attendants to prepare a hot meal which did calm her daughter down. So you are saying that on flights they should never try to accommodate passengers if they have specific needs then? Well I am glad you do not run any companies as they would go bust very fast.
So your counter was at best pathetic if I am being honest. She never kicked off and the pilot made an ill informed decision, based on fear.
So I agree your counter was very poor, as it backs a pilot to make a decision based off fear, and not of something actually happening.
But then Nems in most argument you do use the "I am the perfect Mum" aspect to try and big yourself up on a forum and as seen here it falls utterly flat

Airlines do their best to accommodate people, they do ask you advise them before hand though. Your point is poor, you don't know what information was given to the pilot, You are not a pilot so I is very poor of you to suggest you know better than him. I am the perfect mum??!? Where did I say that? Its very poor to put words in peoples mouths. I am not supermum but I always knew how to anticipate the needs of my children. The mother requesting the meal etc was based on fear of something happening so your point is poor

Nems wrote:

Nemesis wrote:

You are just making the same unfounded claims.
The mother did exactly know and informed the flight attendants to prepare a hot meal which did calm her daughter down. So you are saying that on flights they should never try to accommodate passengers if they have specific needs then? Well I am glad you do not run any companies as they would go bust very fast.
So your counter was at best pathetic if I am being honest. She never kicked off and the pilot made an ill informed decision, based on fear.
So I agree your counter was very poor, as it backs a pilot to make a decision based off fear, and not of something actually happening.
But then Nems in most argument you do use the "I am the perfect Mum" aspect to try and big yourself up on a forum and as seen here it falls utterly flat

Airlines do their best to accommodate people, they do ask you advise them before hand though. Your point is poor, you don't know what information was given to the pilot, You are not a pilot so I is very poor of you to suggest you know better than him. I am the perfect mum??!? Where did I say that? Its very poor to put words in peoples mouths. I am not supermum but I always knew how to anticipate the needs of my children.  The mother requesting the meal etc was based on fear of something happening so your point is poor

Well why would she advise something in regards to her daughter, when her daughter has flown many times without incident? You see you just never read any report, think you are the perfect mum who is never at fault and tries to find fault in other mums to big yourself up. I find that utterly pathetic, the same can be found in regards to your obsession with the Mccann case. The mother used good sense, she could see her child getting agitated by the signs, and to prevent this from hap penning she rightly asked the attendants to cook her a hot mean. It worked and she never kicked off. So again you clearly have no idea in regards to a having a child with special needs. At every turn the mother did the right thing and yet you wish to back an irrational decision by the pilot based on unfounded fear. You want to start the insults Nems, happy to fire them a hundred fold back at you hun.

It sounds like this lady got their backs up and was a bit arsy. Customer service is generally better when you treat the people providing it in a proper manner.

Raggamuffin wrote:It sounds like this lady got their backs up and was a bit arsy. Customer service is generally better when you treat the people providing it in a proper manner.

Unsubstantiated.

Nemesis wrote:

Nems wrote:

Airlines do their best to accommodate people, they do ask you advise them before hand though. Your point is poor, you don't know what information was given to the pilot, You are not a pilot so I is very poor of you to suggest you know better than him. I am the perfect mum??!? Where did I say that? Its very poor to put words in peoples mouths. I am not supermum but I always knew how to anticipate the needs of my children.  The mother requesting the meal etc was based on fear of something happening so your point is poor

Well why would she advise something in regards to her daughter, when her daughter has flown many times without incident? You see you just never read any report, think you are the perfect mum who is never at fault and tries to find fault in other mums to big yourself up. I find that utterly pathetic, the same can be found in regards to your obsession with the Mccann case. The mother used good sense, she could see her child getting agitated by the signs, and to prevent this from hap penning she rightly asked the attendants to cook her a hot mean. It worked and she never kicked off. So again you clearly have no idea in regards to a having a child with special needs. At every turn the mother did the right thing and yet you wish to back an irrational decision by the pilot based on unfounded fear. You want to start the insults Nems, happy to fire them a hundred fold back at you hun.

The crew didnt know she had flown without incident, they know what the mother told them which was she may become violent.
How do you know I haven't got a child with special needs?

Im not sure why you bring up the McCanns, I don't think this woman was neglectful of her children or killed one of them.

Nems wrote:

Nemesis wrote:

Well why would she advise something in regards to her daughter, when her daughter has flown many times without incident? You see you just never read any report, think you are the perfect mum who is never at fault and tries to find fault in other mums to big yourself up. I find that utterly pathetic, the same can be found in regards to your obsession with the Mccann case. The mother used good sense, she could see her child getting agitated by the signs, and to prevent this from hap penning she rightly asked the attendants to cook her a hot mean. It worked and she never kicked off. So again you clearly have no idea in regards to a having a child with special needs. At every turn the mother did the right thing and yet you wish to back an irrational decision by the pilot based on unfounded fear. You want to start the insults Nems, happy to fire them a hundred fold back at you hun.

The crew didnt know she had flown without incident, they know what the mother told them which was she may become violent.
How do you know I haven't got a child with special needs?

Im not sure why you bring up the McCanns, I don't think this woman was neglectful of her children or killed one of them.

The crew would not have needed to know anything like on any other flight. Here the daughter was showing signs and the most obvious thing to do is to help the mother where she has advised them of a situation. Again they are paid to help, which this was a reasonable request, which is not going to cause them too much trouble to cook one hot meal, the point you miss. They clearly over reacted in fear, that the child would kick off, hence they over reacted. As to your own children I really would be concerned at your attitude here to be honest if you do not see the good sense the mother used. You are obsessed with he Mccans, all based on carrying out a witch hunt against the parents, of which now you still wrongly claim the child is dead of which there is no such evidence.

Perhaps the lady should invest in one of those thermal bags, so she could take hot food around with her. She knew her daughter got agitated sometimes, and she knew she hadn't eaten her dinner before they got on the plane.

Raggamuffin wrote:Perhaps the lady should invest in one of those thermal bags, so she could take hot food around with her. She knew her daughter got agitated sometimes, and she knew she hadn't eaten her dinner before they got on the plane.

Her daughter had never got agitated before on a flight, but the thermal bag is a good idea, of which she may not have been aware of also. She did have food for the child as well.

Raggamuffin wrote:Perhaps the lady should invest in one of those thermal bags, so she could take hot food around with her. She knew her daughter got agitated sometimes, and she knew she hadn't eaten her dinner before they got on the plane.

But that would mean her planning ahead and taking responsibility for her children. Much easier to expect everyone else to and then sue

Nems wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Perhaps the lady should invest in one of those thermal bags, so she could take hot food around with her. She knew her daughter got agitated sometimes, and she knew she hadn't eaten her dinner before they got on the plane.

But that would mean her planning ahead and taking responsibility for her children. Much easier to expect everyone else to and then sue

She did plan ahead as she had made her a packed lunch, where again she had never kicked off on a flight before. Yet again Nems using the "I am the perfect mum and never make mistakes" card. She requested to pay for a first class hot mean, knowing this would defuse the situation with her daughter. It is a reasonable request and shows you are being way over the top and all because I have show your views to be wrong, which led to your silly insults, which have been replicated, all of which there was no need of.

I shall leave you to sulk then

Have a nice day and hope to see you in better form later.

Once again, a photo of a child has been splashed all over the internet. What is it with these people who do that? The girl is 15, and normally she'd probably put her own pic on there, but she's autistic.

If the mother is so protective, why put her daughter's pic all over the internet and use her to have a pop at a flight attendance and/or captain of a plane?

Nems wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Perhaps the lady should invest in one of those thermal bags, so she could take hot food around with her. She knew her daughter got agitated sometimes, and she knew she hadn't eaten her dinner before they got on the plane.

But that would mean her planning ahead and taking responsibility for her children. Much easier to expect everyone else to and then sue

I just get the feeling that it was the tone with which she approached the issue which was the problem. All this stuff about her demands re how airline crews are trained tells me that.

When it comes to customer service, being demanding towards staff sometimes works because they don't want a scene, but it's generally much better to be really nice to them - and then they'll be nice back and go out of their way to help.

Raggamuffin wrote:Once again, a photo of a child has been splashed all over the internet. What is it with these people who do that? The girl is 15, and normally she'd probably put her own pic on there, but she's autistic.

If the mother is so protective, why put her daughter's pic all over the internet and use her to have a pop at a flight attendance and/or captain of a plane?

As they are rightly angered at their treatment by the airline and hence have gone public with their story

Simple

Have a lovely day rags

Nemesis wrote:

Nems wrote:

But that would mean her planning ahead and taking responsibility for her children. Much easier to expect everyone else to and then sue

She did plan ahead as she had made her a packed lunch, where again she had never kicked off on a flight before. Yet again Nems using the "I am the perfect mum and never make mistakes" card. She requested to pay for a first class hot mean, knowing this would defuse the situation with her daughter. It is a reasonable request and shows you are being way over the top and all because I have show your views to be wrong, which led to your silly insults, which have been replicated, all of which there was no need of.

I shall leave you to sulk then

Have a nice day and hope to see you in better form later.

Im not saying I am a perfect mum Didge stop being silly.
You cannot back up your argument so you are doing a mini flounc-ette
Im not insulting you Didge Im using your own terminology back at you
Very poor that you don't get that

Perfect mum or not Didge I do know how many children I have.
Can you say the same?
Poor Tanya

Raggamuffin wrote:Once again, a photo of a child has been splashed all over the internet. What is it with these people who do that? The girl is 15, and normally she'd probably put her own pic on there, but she's autistic.

If the mother is so protective, why put her daughter's pic all over the internet and use her to have a pop at a flight attendance and/or captain of a plane?

Dollars?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nems wrote:

But that would mean her planning ahead and taking responsibility for her children. Much easier to expect everyone else to and then sue

I just get the feeling that it was the tone with which she approached the issue which was the problem. All this stuff about her demands re how airline crews are trained tells me that.

When it comes to customer service, being demanding towards staff sometimes works because they don't want a scene, but it's generally much better to be really nice to them - and then they'll be nice back and go out of their way to help.

That makes no sense at all and is unfounded.
What does make sense is the attendants over reacted to fear of the child kicking off.
They had asked politely to pay for a meal and offering to pay is not demanding at all, which shows you need to read the story because what you claim, just does not make sense. What makes sense, is that they went to the pilot stating that child may kick off, not actually knowing if the child would and thus went off their own perception and not what actually happened. It shows they over reacted on every level and to claim it was how the mother spoke does not bare any resemblance to the story

Nems wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Once again, a photo of a child has been splashed all over the internet. What is it with these people who do that? The girl is 15, and normally she'd probably put her own pic on there, but she's autistic.

If the mother is so protective, why put her daughter's pic all over the internet and use her to have a pop at a flight attendance and/or captain of a plane?

Dollars?

It wouldn't surprise me, but this type of thing seems to happen all the time now - people kicking off on the internet re their kid's school or whatever, and putting a photo of the kid out there. It seems like a bizarre kind of attention seeking to me.

Basically, if you're asking for special favours or for the rules to be bent, it's best to be apologetic and acknowledge that you're asking for special treatment. Most people would respond to that in a positive way. This is why I get the feeling that didn't happen.

Having said that, making a special stop just to get the kid off there does seem a bit OTT. I guess airline pilots are very conscious of safety these days and some perhaps tend to be overly cautious.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nems wrote:

Dollars?

It wouldn't surprise me, but this type of thing seems to happen all the time now - people kicking off on the internet re their kid's school or whatever, and putting a photo of the kid out there. It seems like a bizarre kind of attention seeking to me.

The publicity seeking equivalent of Munchausen's?!

Nems wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me, but this type of thing seems to happen all the time now - people kicking off on the internet re their kid's school or whatever, and putting a photo of the kid out there. It seems like a bizarre kind of attention seeking to me.

The publicity seeking equivalent of Munchausen's?!

It's almost as if they want to tell the world what great people they are - like they need to convince others of that. Perhaps this lady felt that people would judge her and felt embarrassed about being told to leave the plane, so she got her side in first - very publically. She's free to sue the airline of course, but why put it out there before she does so?

Nems wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me, but this type of thing seems to happen all the time now - people kicking off on the internet re their kid's school or whatever, and putting a photo of the kid out there. It seems like a bizarre kind of attention seeking to me.

The publicity seeking equivalent of Munchausen's?!

I am not sure whether to laugh at you, or roll over laughing at you for that comment, which has little to no bearing. They were publicly removed from a plane through doing nothing wrong. Most rational people would rightly go to the press and take them to the court because of how badly they were treated. This is more to show the world in regards to the company itself in how they were treated. If your own child was effected by an action of the local council, which injured your child, you would like most people go to the press if the reaction from the council was unsatisfactory, just as the case here with the airline which has backed the pilot.
Rags has some bitter view of the world that if anyone goes to the press it is for their own benefit, when in most cases it is highlighting the poor attitude of a company/council authority etc.

The news would be very boring if people did not go to the press with a perceived wrong, and clearly the newspaper things they have a case by printing their story.


Right I have work to do but do not make such unfounded idiotic claims Nems

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nems wrote:

The publicity seeking equivalent of Munchausen's?!

It's almost as if they want to tell the world what great people they are - like they need to convince others of that. Perhaps this lady felt that people would judge her and felt embarrassed about being told to leave the plane, so she got her side in first - very publically. She's free to sue the airline of course, but why put it out there before she does so?

The horrible need some are developing that makes them think we all want to hear the details of their lives
Laters Ragsx

Nems wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nems wrote:

The publicity seeking equivalent of Munchausen's?!

It's almost as if they want to tell the world what great people they are - like they need to convince others of that. Perhaps this lady felt that people would judge her and felt embarrassed about being told to leave the plane, so she got her side in first - very publically. She's free to sue the airline of course, but why put it out there before she does so?

The horrible need some are developing that makes them think we all want to hear the details of their lives
Laters Ragsx

I,actually agree. It's like people have to start loving their lives out for the public instead Of keeping some dignity and refinement and going about things quietly.

Sad.

eddie wrote:

Nems wrote:


The horrible need some are developing that makes them think we all want to hear the details of their lives
Laters Ragsx

I,actually agree. It's like people have to start loving their lives out for the public instead  Of keeping some dignity and refinement and going about things quietly.

Sad.

This comming from the poster who tells us about problems with friends in life.
So does that not apply to you also then Eddie?

I asked for advice on a small forum full of people I'd "known" for years.
No names given out.

Hardly the same.

Oh no....wait!! I did actually ask the Daily Telegraph to publish my woes but they told me to grow up.

eddie wrote:I asked for advice on a small forum full of people I'd "known" for years.
No names given out.

Hardly the same.

Oh no....wait!! I did actually ask the Daily Telegraph to publish my woes but they told me to grow up.

It is the same, just the level of people knowing is different.
You are doing exactly the same thing and like the story it is beneficial to know to help people when faced with a problem, like you were.
I see no wrong going to press where this family was dealt with in an appalling way.
What names did they give out about the attendants?
They never did, their anger is directed at the airline company, which they have every right to do.
There is no difference to you coming forward openly to people with a problem just as they have through the media. I find those making a view of them for doing so to be utterly bitter if I am being honest, as what is wrong with them making the public aware of this company?

Nothing

I already answered

eddie wrote:I already answered

And I have shown your views conflict

Nemesis wrote:

eddie wrote:I already answered

And I have shown your views conflict

Ah well. We are only human.

eddie wrote:

Nemesis wrote:


And I have shown your views conflict

Ah well. We are only human.

Or just hypocritical

Nemesis wrote:

eddie wrote:

Nemesis wrote:


And I have shown your views conflict

Ah well. We are only human.

Or just hypocritical

Ah well, you're only human.

This was reported on ABC news which has some additional information and comments from fellow passengers,paramedics and the cops. Seems the Captain was determined that they ewere going off no matter otherwise he may have had a bit of explaining to do to his bosses. He didn't as far as I can see ever engage with the mother either at any time. The Flight landed at Salt Lake City and I believe the remaining flight time wouldn't have been much more than 90 minutes.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-claims-daughter-autism-kicked-off-united-airlines/story?id=30926832

Looked at the mothers bio and she is certainly no mug. Maybe she mistakenly thought that if a situation arose unexpectedly about hot food that a bit of common sense may prevail and that a flight attendant would see the situation for what it was and help.

http://aeispeakers.com/speakerbio.php?SpeakerID=1087

So, the flight attendant used his sense and got her a hot meal, she was fine, there was no trouble, but the pilot did that to her. Is he related to Katie Hopkins by any chance?

To be fair, we haven't heard the pilot's side of the story, or the attendant's side either. I did read that one passenger said the girl was howling for ages.

Raggamuffin wrote:To be fair, we haven't heard the pilot's side of the story, or the attendant's side either. I did read that one passenger said the girl was howling for ages.

Where did you see that Raggs?

Irn Bru wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:To be fair, we haven't heard the pilot's side of the story, or the attendant's side either. I did read that one passenger said the girl was howling for ages.

Where did you see that Raggs?

In a few news articles.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/05/11/oregon-mom-says-fear-of-her-autistic-daughter-caused-united-to-divert-flight/

The trouble with this sort of thing is that the customer can make as much noise as they like in the press, or on internet sites, or wherever, but the company can't really answer back in the same way because the customer is "always right" apparently.

Raggamuffin wrote:The trouble with this sort of thing is that the customer can make as much noise as they like in the press, or on internet sites, or wherever, but the company can't really answer back in the same way because the customer is "always right" apparently.

You seriously believe she was going to open an emergency exit door at 36000 ft? I hardly think so.

Irn Bru wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:The trouble with this sort of thing is that the customer can make as much noise as they like in the press, or on internet sites, or wherever, but the company can't really answer back in the same way because the customer is "always right" apparently.

You seriously believe she was going to open an emergency exit door at 36000 ft? I hardly think so.

Where did I say that? Oh, that's right - I didn't.

The point is that this woman can rant all she likes, but the company can't really do the same because they have to be professional. It's the same in any customer service based industry, so it's usually a bit one-sided.