At Last A Forum With Free Speech- Newsfix Rocks.

[Major]

First topic message reminder :

The forums I have been on where you are banned for even thinking the things we freely discuss here.

We must be allowed to vent our views, even anger if we want to.

Sassy can even have her purely racist, hatred views of us Brits put into script.

Most forums say they have free speech but it is untrue when it comes to debating, queers, terrorists, Muslims lesbos and so on.

Newfix Rocks,





unless you know different.

[veya_victaous]

You want to kill British citizens. You should be banned from ever entering this country.

Are you drunk or stupid

You want to Kill British citizens YOU should be banned from the country
Or Do you want to Serve the terrorists Tea instead 
British Citizens are Members of ISIS

AND 'British Citizen' is not some magic that makes it any differnet to suggest Lawful death for.

And Don't worry I wouldn't want to go to such a shitty place I never had much interest but none after seeing how ridiculous you lot are.

Well that's good because your anti-British views have become incitement to murder now. You want members of the EDL to be bombed, and they're mostly English, so you're actually wishing harm on English citizens.

Do you believe it is right the below British Citizen is Killed? or are you going to give  him tea and scones


And it is not Murder unless you know are saying every ISIS memebr killed by western bombs is murdered....   in which case you are more anti military than me by a long way since, I don't mind if they kill the 'bad guys' 
at least i only say it is the innocent Civilians that are murdered, and the same if EDL was declared terrorist org (as it should be) any innocent British person that was in the wrong place at the wrong time is essentially murdered too, it is immoral to disregard the innocent casualties as 'collateral damage'  that is justified because Parliament said so.

[Ben Reilly]

the left HAS no virtue....save that it claims for itself

“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”

― John F. Kennedy, Profiles in Courage

[Ben Reilly]

No doubt Miss Ragga, you know you are being trolled.

Trolled by the virtuous left? Surely not.

Why do we have to be more virtuous than you?

[Raggamuffin]

Trolled by the virtuous left? Surely not.

Why do we have to be more virtuous than you?

You don't, but you talk as if you are.

[Ben Reilly]

Trolled by the virtuous left? Surely not.

Why do we have to be more virtuous than you?

You don't, but you talk as if you are.

Because we are.

[veya_victaous]

Strawman'ing again

I don't think you should include me in the left
I am Intolerant
Intolerant of Idiots and Cowards...

Plus I am a LW technocrat so a lot more evolved than anything in the isle of Misery, I mean could you imagine Britain being that adaptive... it is hilarious since it is impossible while you are weighted down by so many useless traditions.

[Raggamuffin]

the left HAS no virtue....save that it claims for itself

“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”

― John F. Kennedy, Profiles in Courage

Liberals are usually banging on about the past.

[Raggamuffin]

Strawman'ing again

I don't think you should include me in the left
I am Intolerant
Intolerant of Idiots and Cowards...

Plus I am a LW technocrat so a lot more evolved than anything in the isle of Misery, I mean could you imagine Britain being that adaptive... it is hilarious since it is impossible while you are weighted down by so many useless traditions.

There's nothing "adaptive" about you. You're totally stuck in your ways, and can never see anyone's point of view except your own.

[Raggamuffin]

You don't, but you talk as if you are.

Because we are.

No you're not - you're a prejudiced bigot. You're much worse than anyone you say is "right wing".

[Victorismyhero]

the left HAS no virtue....save that it claims for itself

“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”

― John F. Kennedy, Profiles in Courage

YES...and toadays "crop" of so called "liberals" (i suppose thats your "concept" of L/W??) actually besmirch the memory of that man who was arguably the best you have ever had in charge of your country

also...your L/W is entirely different to the PC constipated addle pated loonies that constitute our left.
unfortunately for us OUR lefties are still mired in the pot smoking, woodstock driven, shag anything warm, heyyyy peace man lefty street politics of the mid 60's

[veya_victaous]

Strawman'ing again

I don't think you should include me in the left
I am Intolerant
Intolerant of Idiots and Cowards...

Plus I am a LW technocrat so a lot more evolved than anything in the isle of Misery, I mean could you imagine Britain being that adaptive... it is hilarious since it is impossible while you are weighted down by so many useless traditions.

There's nothing "adaptive" about you. You're totally stuck in your ways, and can never see anyone's point of view except your own.

Lol
She says to man who lives a life dedicated to progress and constant adaption to technology.
I am a Driver of Change By Profession
I can see others point of view Just yours are crap.
victor has made some valid points about the incompetence of Authorities in Britain and they fact they for some stupid reason act in totally anti secular manner and make exception of legal responsibility for criminals based on their religion...  Which should NEVER happen in secular societies.

[veya_victaous]

the left HAS no virtue....save that it claims for itself

“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”

― John F. Kennedy, Profiles in Courage

YES...and toadays "crop" of so called "liberals" (i suppose thats your "concept" of L/W??) actually besmirch the memory of that man who was arguably the best you have ever had in charge of your country

also...your L/W is entirely different to the PC constipated addle pated loonies that constitute our left.
unfortunately for us OUR lefties are still mired in the pot smoking, woodstock driven, shag anything warm, heyyyy peace man lefty street politics of the mid 60's

that is actually the feeling i strongly get from Corbyn

See Admit it you lot are decades behind politically, Both LW and RW, it's like Britain has been in a coma for 2 decades and just woken up and acting like it is 1990. (if that  some ideas seem more 1930's Germany)

[veya_victaous]

You want to kill British citizens. You should be banned from ever entering this country.

Are you drunk or stupid

You want to Kill British citizens YOU should be banned from the country
Or Do you want to Serve the terrorists Tea instead 
British Citizens are Members of ISIS

AND 'British Citizen' is not some magic that makes it any differnet to suggest Lawful death for.

And Don't worry I wouldn't want to go to such a shitty place I never had much interest but none after seeing how ridiculous you lot are.

Well that's good because your anti-British views have become incitement to murder now. You want members of the EDL to be bombed, and they're mostly English, so you're actually wishing harm on English citizens.

Do you believe it is right the below British Citizen is Killed? or are you going to give  him tea and scones


And it is not Murder unless you know are saying every ISIS memebr killed by western bombs is murdered....   in which case you are more anti military than me by a long way since, I don't mind if they kill the 'bad guys' 
at least i only say it is the innocent Civilians that are murdered, and the same if EDL was declared terrorist org (as it should be) any innocent British person that was in the wrong place at the wrong time is essentially murdered too, it is immoral to disregard the innocent casualties as 'collateral damage'  that is justified because Parliament said so.

Hey Raggs
Have you got the tea and sconces Ready yet?

[Victorismyhero]

YES...and toadays "crop" of so called "liberals" (i suppose thats your "concept" of L/W??) actually besmirch the memory of that man who was arguably the best you have ever had in charge of your country

also...your L/W is entirely different to the PC constipated addle pated loonies that constitute our left.
unfortunately for us OUR lefties are still mired in the pot smoking, woodstock driven, shag anything warm, heyyyy peace man lefty street politics of the mid 60's

that is actually the feeling i strongly get from Corbyn


you aint the only one I can tell you

See Admit it you lot are decades behind politically, Both LW and RW, it's like Britain has been in a coma for 2 decades and just woken up and acting like it is 1990. (if that  some ideas seem more 1930's Germany)

see now why I dislike left and right here with equal fervour????

[Victorismyhero]

see why, in the light of that why most of my posts actually make sense....

[veya_victaous]

see why, in the light of that why most of my posts actually make sense....

Yes I will give you that for the Isle Of Misery you are correct

I think it may be greater Europe though, not 100% but I think the nationalistic elements have purposely been inflamed to make the EU unsuccessful

If the EU was implemented efficiently and effectively then the EU would be stronger than any of the 3 biggest powers now, only the US could match it militarily. and Russia and china woudl slip a place.
So as the Success of the EU is not in the interest of any of the current powers so it has purposely been riddled with inefficiency and ineffectiveness(border control is an example of mismanaged unification)

[Victorismyhero]

I have, on a number of accaisons on here and elsewhere posted a "manifesto"

of course its a long read..several pages in fact

but the idle sods on here cant be arsed to read it

so I've had bugger all feed back to it



its actually quite sensible, its even "doable"

and although seems initially harsh on immigration, isnt in the long term, merely calling for a moratorium for 5 possibly 10 years on all but essential and/or humanitarian(with certain conditions) reasons. to allow for the CURRENT problems to be resolved and the necessary mechanisms to prevent the like accumulating again being put in place.

[Victorismyhero]

see why, in the light of that why most of my posts actually make sense....

Yes I will give you that for the Isle Of Misery you are correct

I think it may be greater Europe though, not 100% but I think the nationalistic elements have purposely been inflamed to make the EU unsuccessful

If the EU was implemented efficiently and effectively then the EU would be stronger than any of the 3 biggest powers now, only the US could match it militarily. and Russia and china woudl slip a place.
So as the Success of the EU is not in the interest of any of the current powers so it has purposely been riddled with inefficiency and ineffectiveness(border control is an example of mismanaged unification)

theres more to it than that veya, your interpretation there is far too simplistic

as it stands the EU is not fit for purpose, and cannot improve itself...

example

a few years back there was talk of IMPOSING a change on the electrical plugs and sockets used domestically. talk was of imposing the continental style upon britain

NOW ..granted changing to these would have involved fewer changes...i.e it only really affected britain

BUT the continental plug IS NOT AS SAFE as the uk plug primarily becasue the earth pin (when present ) makes contact LAST whereas the uk style ensures the earth makes FIRST, thus ensuring that the appliance is earthed before the power is fully connected (there are other more technical issues as well, where we are well ahead of the game)

it wasnt adopted..but nothing was resolved either...now is it just me...or, if you are going to have a common standard, shouldnt you use the SAFEST????

you want to see what a mess the EU has made of wireing standards as well Its positively offensive....

wires USED to have to exit socket wall boxes vertically or horizontally and elsewise be routeed in "safety zones"
between ceiling and 4" down no more that 4" from any corner etc

then every man and his dog knew where to find wires...or...more importantly NOT TO DRILL

now they can run in any direction anywhere and you most DEFFO need a wire finder before drilling anywhere

the average house wiring now looks like an orgy in a spider farm....

[Tommy Monk]

We are being made miserable by successive govts failure to do what we want and by them also handing away our sovereignty and national powers and controls away to the EU against our wishes.


Don't you think we have a right to be aggrieved?

When other peoples are fighting for their right to democracy and self rule, our govts are frittering it away!


And Victor you are wrong about elec regulations...

[Victorismyhero]

We are being made miserable by successive govts failure to do what we want and by them also handing away our sovereignty and national powers and controls away to the EU against our wishes.


Don't you think we have a right to be aggrieved?

When other peoples are fighting for their right to democracy and self rule, our govts are frittering it away!


And Victor you are wrong about elec regulations...

17th ed removed the requirements for safety zones and vertical horizontal runs

you can now run at angles across walls. previously considered VERY bad practice.......

[Victorismyhero]

unless they have ammended them.....again

[veya_victaous]

I think if the UK had been more open to eastern European migration then you could have  established reasonable systems, now it is a bit late and I cant see anyway forward that will not require pain. the problem with the 5-10 years idea is that you are already so far behind. Similarly a large injection of funds would also help BUT previous inaction has left your income down. so your position now is hard to recover from in part because no one else is going to slow down.

the problem is also there needs to be an ideological changed in the minds of peasants like stormee and tommy, where they see themselves as 'Europeans' like I see myself as Australian or Ben and Quill etc American.
We all have Our home States too (that are generally bigger than the UK) And our little suburbs or townships. and we are just as 'patriotic' towards our state, just ask Quill about California,  Or ask Ben if he is 'Texan'..... But we have an overriding 'Continental nation' that unifies a much larger political/economic zone.
it is simply evolution the larger the territory the more powerful the tribe, to control the 'Continental sized territories' that have emerged and dominated in the 20th century requires a unification of smaller tribes to make a hybrid super sized tribe. 

the old Colonial era methods for controlling super sized territories where terrible selfish and unsustainable particularly for those that lived in colonies. Europe I think tends to look at that time as the 'good old days' as opposed to when it was the Villain Oppressing much of the world, paying for it's wasteful ways with the proceeds of it's crimes.

So when Stormee and the like go one like they suffer now Because they don't get to take the proceeds of Crime, It really doesn't make anyone feel sorry for Europe. Quite the opposite it reminds everyone that when the shoe was on the other foot, Europe showed No Mercy, No Quarter and No Compassion for anyone else's traditions, culture or choices.

It is not that we want Europe to suffer but when you hear the pathetic whinging from fools like Stormee it does make you think "well, they are only reaping what they sowed."

[Tommy Monk]

You are an ignorant racist fool...

[veya_victaous]

@victor
regarding wiring

things decided because 'tradition'
that is exactly what i mean and the massive difficulties, it is almost like with a few choices the EU set itself up to fail.

And it depends on how long other powers have been trying to subvert EU success, don't tell me Russia hasn't been doing it sense the beginning (and definitely since Putin came to power)

[veya_victaous]

You are an ignorant racist fool...

Are you looking in the mirror?

I mean My nation doesn't even have a race and personally I am Half Anglo-Celtic decent, and entirely European decent.

you don't like reality. that you have it good, have always had it good and even your problems now are almost entirely created by modern political decisions to appease foolish peasants like yourself. the little bit of sovereignty you have to Forfeit to stay relevant in as a modern economic power is diddly squat compared to the Sovereignty others lost by Force to European empires....
how ever bad you feel about it, Others had it many times worse over a Much longer period of time.

[veya_victaous]

[Ben Reilly]

We are being made miserable by successive govts failure to do what we want and by them also handing away our sovereignty and national powers and controls away to the EU against our wishes.


Don't you think we have a right to be aggrieved?

When other peoples are fighting for their right to democracy and self rule, our govts are frittering it away!


And Victor you are wrong about elec regulations...

You're one of the richest countries in the world, with one of the highest standards of living, and you got there by shitting on large portions of the rest of the world. Even Cameron admitted as much.

No, you don't have the right to be aggrieved. You should be counting your many blessings and thanking whatever you worship that you weren't born in Somalia ... or India for that matter.

[Ben Reilly]

Just wanted to jump in again and point out that every equality movement or movement that stood for empowering more people was led by the left. Every equality movement or movement that stood for empowering more people was opposed by the right.

You take everything from ending slavery to women's suffrage to gay marriage, the left is out in front, fighting for freedom. The right is wringing its hands and wondering if we're not going way too fast -- that is, if it's not spewing hate speech and threatening to kill people.

[Guest]

Just wanted to jump in again and point out that every equality movement or movement that stood for empowering more people was led by the left. Every equality movement or movement that stood for empowering more people was opposed by the right.

You take everything from ending slavery to women's suffrage to gay marriage, the left is out in front, fighting for freedom. The right is wringing its hands and wondering if we're not going way too fast -- that is, if it's not spewing hate speech and threatening to kill people.

That is blatantly the worst distortion ever in history.
Lincoln was a Republican, William Wilberforce was an independent though fundementally Right Wing and brought about an end to the slave trade in Britain, the Tories brought in Gay marriage.
Nothing worse when lefties try to take credit for things they never actually did lol

[Ben Reilly]

Just wanted to jump in again and point out that every equality movement or movement that stood for empowering more people was led by the left. Every equality movement or movement that stood for empowering more people was opposed by the right.

You take everything from ending slavery to women's suffrage to gay marriage, the left is out in front, fighting for freedom. The right is wringing its hands and wondering if we're not going way too fast -- that is, if it's not spewing hate speech and threatening to kill people.

That is blatantly the worst distortion ever in history.
Lincoln was a Republican, William Wilberforce was an independent though fundementally Right Wing and brought about an end to the slave trade in Britain, the Tories brought in Gay marriage.
Nothing worse when lefties try to take credit for things they never actually did lol

The Republican Party was liberal when it started. I don't know about the Tories but they seem a lot more centrist than right-wing to me.

[Ben Reilly]

Our right-wingers would consider the Tories pretty milquetoast, actually. I know they've weakened your socialized health care, but our right wingers would get violent about it. They got violent after we passed Obamacare, for fuck's sake.

[Original Quill]

Just wanted to jump in again and point out that every equality movement or movement that stood for empowering more people was led by the left. Every equality movement or movement that stood for empowering more people was opposed by the right.

You take everything from ending slavery to women's suffrage to gay marriage, the left is out in front, fighting for freedom. The right is wringing its hands and wondering if we're not going way too fast -- that is, if it's not spewing hate speech and threatening to kill people.

That is blatantly the worst distortion ever in history.
Lincoln was a Republican, William Wilberforce was an independent though fundementally Right Wing and brought about an end to the slave trade in Britain, the Tories brought in Gay marriage.
Nothing worse when lefties try to take credit for things they never actually did lol

Lincoln was a Republican when Republicans were not RW. They did not become RW until the Guilded Age. There was no slave trade in Britain. Gay marriage was brought in of its own accord; it was nobody else's business.

[Guest]

That is blatantly the worst distortion ever in history.
Lincoln was a Republican, William Wilberforce was an independent though fundementally Right Wing and brought about an end to the slave trade in Britain, the Tories brought in Gay marriage.
Nothing worse when lefties try to take credit for things they never actually did lol

The Republican Party was liberal when it started. I don't know about the Tories but they seem a lot more centrist than right-wing to me.

lol that is baloney even if more democratic the policies of the time back then were fundementally more right wing in the past.
Ben please do not make claims to history which fundementally do not add up.
Again the Tories are centre right, William Wilberforce was very much right wing and evangical Christian.
Its disingenuous to claim the left have only champion injustices

[Ben Reilly]

That is blatantly the worst distortion ever in history.
Lincoln was a Republican, William Wilberforce was an independent though fundementally Right Wing and brought about an end to the slave trade in Britain, the Tories brought in Gay marriage.
Nothing worse when lefties try to take credit for things they never actually did lol

The Republican Party was liberal when it started. I don't know about the Tories but they seem a lot more centrist than right-wing to me.

lol that is baloney even if more democratic the policies of the time back then were fundementally more right wing in the past.
Ben please do not make claims to history which fundementally do not add up.
Again the Tories are centre right, William Wilberforce was very much right wing and evangical Christian.
Its disingenuous

Like I said in the other thread -- come to America and find out what the real right wing is like. Your version is ... anemic, for the most part. Maybe UKIP and the EDL, but not the Tories.

[Guest]

lol that is baloney even if more democratic the policies of the time back then were fundementally more right wing in the past.
Ben please do not make claims to history which fundementally do not add up.
Again the Tories are centre right, William Wilberforce was very much right wing and evangical Christian.
Its disingenuous

Like I said in the other thread -- come to America and find out what the real right wing is like. Your version is ... anemic, for the most part. Maybe UKIP and the EDL, but not the Tories.

Absurd deflection to your incorrect claim.
I have been to the US and know very well what the Republicans and Tea Party are like and they are more to the far right. So I do not need a lecture on politics. The point is your view on the fight for injustices has not always been led by the left.

[Original Quill]

The Republican Party was liberal when it started. I don't know about the Tories but they seem a lot more centrist than right-wing to me.

lol that is baloney even if more democratic the policies of the time back then were fundementally more right wing in the past.
Ben please do not make claims to history which fundementally do not add up.
Again the Tories are centre right, William Wilberforce was very much right wing and evangical Christian.
Its disingenuous to claim the left have only champion injustices

Didge, you're full of Bullshit. The Republicans were formed over opposition to slavery. They were basically northeastern liberals, engaged in mercantile and industry. They started to become conservative over the issue of patronage, led by James Blain in the 1880's.

Republicans didn't become fully conservative until the Orange County Republicans became a force, post WWII. Then came Goldwater in 1964, and thereafter the Southern Strategy.

[Ben Reilly]

I don't blame you, Didge, for not knowing about American politics any more than I think you'd hold me to account for knowing about British politics (other than the broadest strokes). But you should check out how the parties essentially flipped in the 1960s, over civil rights. It's fascinating if nothing else.

I will say that Lincoln was willing to fight a civil war over the question of who has more power -- the individual states or the federal government. He was on the side of the nation as a whole. No modern Republican would take that stance (even if he/she really felt that way).

[Guest]

I don't blame you, Didge, for not knowing about American politics any more than I think you'd hold me to account for knowing about British politics (other than the broadest strokes). But you should check out how the parties essentially flipped in the 1960s, over civil rights. It's fascinating if nothing else.

I will say that Lincoln was willing to fight a civil war over the question of who has more power -- the individual states or the federal government. He was on the side of the nation as a whole. No modern Republican would take that stance (even if he/she really felt that way).

So where you were fundementally wrong on history you claim I do not know the history of America, that is both comical and again you failing to admit your massive error. The fact is the democrats and the Republicans of the past were fundementally right wing in their policies in the past to deny this fails to see or actually understand the politics of the time. Yes the republicans were very much different in younder years than today, but each still held many policies that discrminated against many groups of people so to even claim they were leftis is again the worst distortion of history. But lets face some facts Ben, do not even try to school me on history as seen you will get badly burnt lol

Not only that, apart from Licoln, in the 20th century it was just about every major  war that the US was involved in was implimented by the Democrats.

World War 1 - Woodrow Wison-Democrat
Russian Civil war-Woodrow Wison-Democrat
World War 2 - Franklin D. Roosevelt -  Democrat
Korean War  - Harry S. Truman - Democrat
Bay of Pigs Invasion (Cuba) - John F Kennedy - Democrat
Vietnam War - John F Kennedy, Lydon B Johnson - Democrat
Iraq War -George Bush Senior- Republican
Afghanistan - George Bush Junior - Republican
Second Iraq War - George Bush Junior - Republican




Quite a history of war mongering there Ben


Now stop being pathetic and admit you were wrong on lefties only being the chanmpions of injustice

[Eilzel]

I think using WW1 and 2 is pretty unfair there didge. In WW1 and 2 they were dragged into war by militaristic attacks or plots against themselves, in WW2 they fought two fascist RW regimes.

Lincoln was absolutely a progressive and the Republicans of today do not reflect the Republicans of the mid 19th century.

[Guest]

I think using WW1 and 2 is pretty unfair there didge. In WW1 and 2 they were dragged into war by militaristic attacks or plots against themselves, in WW2 they fought two fascist RW regimes.

Lincoln was absolutely a progressive and the Republicans of today do not reflect the Republicans of the mid 19th century.

You spoil my fun Eilzel.
It just bugs me when there is poor views made on history.
The fact is Lincoln may well have been very progressive for the time, but the Politics of the 19th century were still very much steeped in RW policies. I am not doubting the influence the left have had in the 20th century with progression, but lets be honest it was more people of right wing politics that made some of the first leaps foward in the 19th century, like with Wilberforce to end slavery. Hence I think it is very unfair to claim as Ben did in regards to the left being the champion of injustice.

As to WW1, well many Americans were actually anti going to war. I understand very well the U-boat attacks did make this impossible, but there was very much an anti-war movement against joining the war. Which without American intervention, the war could have dragged on longer.

[Eilzel]

It was also the Zimmerman telegram which dragged the USA in, I doubt who was in power would have made a difference. And of course politics and policy were more RW back in the 19th century overall, but for their time those people would have been considered liberal. And it is people who are liberal 'in their time' that always drag humanity forward.

[Guest]

It was also the Zimmerman telegram which dragged the USA in, I doubt who was in power would have made a difference. And of course politics and policy were more RW back in the 19th century overall, but for their time those people would have been considered liberal. And it is people who are liberal 'in their time' that always drag humanity forward.

Again I disagree, some of their policies were liberal, but certainly others were not.
I agree it would have made no difference as there is no doubt they would have entered the war.

[Eilzel]

That's why I mean 'for their time'. Even Wilberforce and Lincoln were racist by modern standards, they felt black people being enslaved was wrong, but equal? No way. Looking at great progressives in the context of their time is very important in my opinion. Naturally a huge portion, the vast majority, of people in the 19th century Britain and America would have had views that were mostly abhorrent to us- but at their time they might have been the world changers. The founding fathers of the USA for instance, great visionaries, but who had no problem with owning slaves. Oliver Cromwell had many progressive ideas regarding democracy, but his views on religion were as intolerant as its possible to be. All products of their time but ahead of the majority.

[Guest]

Agreed Eilzel but going back to Ben's point he is still in error like I say.

[eddie]

Link? Again -- I don't trust you.

EDL should be treated like a terrorist organization, IF people where honest they would see EDL is behaving exactly like the Nazis pre world war 2.
And it's stated aims are the same as ISIS except British values instead of Islamic ones

OR it was to Raggs saying that this is an international news forum so in theory saying to Bomb any nation is of equal validity, the calls to Bomb Syria or Bomb the UK are equally up for debate... And of Course we are suggesting official govt Sanctioned bombings not terrorist bombs.

You Know FREE SPEECH and All
I think these Brits just aren't used to it

You want to kill British citizens. You should be banned from ever entering this country.

Are you drunk or stupid

You want to Kill British citizens YOU should be banned from the country
Or Do you want to Serve the terrorists Tea instead 
British Citizens are Members of ISIS

AND 'British Citizen' is not some magic that makes it any differnet to suggest Lawful death for.

And Don't worry I wouldn't want to go to such a shitty place I never had much interest but none after seeing how ridiculous you lot are.

Wow Veya. The last two lines of that post were pretty shitty.

[Tommy Monk]

We are being made miserable by successive govts failure to do what we want and by them also handing away our sovereignty and national powers and controls away to the EU against our wishes.


Don't you think we have a right to be aggrieved?

When other peoples are fighting for their right to democracy and self rule, our govts are frittering it away!


And Victor you are wrong about elec regulations...

You're one of the richest countries in the world, with one of the highest standards of living, and you got there by shitting on large portions of the rest of the world. Even Cameron admitted as much.

No, you don't have the right to be aggrieved. You should be counting your many blessings and thanking whatever you worship that you weren't born in Somalia ... or India for that matter.

No... we got here by being better and more advanced than others and by winning the support of so many because of our willingness to be bringing greater things to them for their own advancement...

[Eilzel]

What a load of BS tommy. We brutally supressed most of our colonial subjects and exploted their lands to enrich our own. Without such exploitation (which included forcing our own trade at the expense of their long established markets), Britain would not have reached the point of being one of the wealthiest nations on earth, And it was only with our increase in wealth as a nation that we could then focus on improving society for all in Britain. We are immensely fortunate to have been born British.

And yes we were able to take over many countries due to our advancement, but don't you (or anyone else here, including me) take credit; a few pioneers led the way, and we live the reward. If YOU want to take credit for the great things done by our history's great men then YOU can also take blamw for the horrors inflicted by us 'as a nation'.

Don't create this false impression Britain was a wonderful bringer of great ideas or an angel cone to help natives get ahead. I doubt many Aborigines, Native Americans, Indians etc felt or feel that way.

[Irn Bru]

Very true Les. That's how it was.

[Irn Bru]

I don't blame you, Didge, for not knowing about American politics any more than I think you'd hold me to account for knowing about British politics (other than the broadest strokes). But you should check out how the parties essentially flipped in the 1960s, over civil rights. It's fascinating if nothing else.

I will say that Lincoln was willing to fight a civil war over the question of who has more power -- the individual states or the federal government. He was on the side of the nation as a whole. No modern Republican would take that stance (even if he/she really felt that way).

So where you were fundementally wrong on history you claim I do not know the history of America, that is both comical and again you failing to admit your massive error. The fact is the democrats and the Republicans of the past were fundementally right wing in their policies in the past to deny this fails to see or actually understand the politics of the time. Yes the republicans were very much different in younder years than today, but each still held many policies that discrminated against many groups of people so to even claim they were leftis is again the worst distortion of history. But lets face some facts Ben, do not even try to school me on history as seen you will get badly burnt lol

Not only that, apart from Licoln, in the 20th century it was just about every major  war that the US was involved in was implimented by the Democrats.

World War 1 - Woodrow Wison-Democrat
Russian Civil war-Woodrow Wison-Democrat
World War 2 - Franklin D. Roosevelt -  Democrat
Korean War  - Harry S. Truman - Democrat
Bay of Pigs Invasion (Cuba) - John F Kennedy - Democrat
Vietnam War - John F Kennedy, Lydon B Johnson - Democrat
Iraq War -George Bush Senior- Republican
Afghanistan - George Bush Junior - Republican
Second Iraq War - George Bush Junior - Republican




Quite a history of war mongering there Ben


Now stop being pathetic and admit you were wrong on lefties only being the chanmpions of injustice

World War 1 - Woodrow Wison-Democrat – fully justified or would you just wave a white flag?

Russian Civil war-Woodrow Wison-Democrat
They sent a few thousand soldiers in support of an allied request lol

World War 2 - Franklin D. Roosevelt - Democrat - justified and thank goodness they did or we could have been speaking German and you would be Herr Didge

Korean War - Harry S. Truman – Democrat
The USA were part of a UN force and were acting under the auspices of the United Nations. UN Resolution 82.

Bay of Pigs Invasion (Cuba) - John F Kennedy – Democrat
That was the brainchild of Ike who supplied all the funding for the creation and training of the force who were ready to go. Kennedy hardly had his feet under the table. The origins of this were the Republicans.

Vietnam War - John F Kennedy, Lydon B Johnson – Democrat
The USA were all over Indo China with their foreign policy proxy war that started in 1955 in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam US troops were in Vietnam long before Kennedy happened along. The origins of this were the Republicans

Iraq War -George Bush Senior- Republican

Afghanistan - George Bush Junior – Republican

Second Iraq War - George Bush Junior – Republican

And you missed these:

Invasion of Grenada – Reagan Republican

Lebanon 1958 – Ike Republican

Lebanon 1983 – Reagan Republican

Libya Bombing - Reagan Republican

Trigger happy neocons are never far away when the shooting starts.

[veya_victaous]

What a load of BS tommy. We brutally supressed most of our colonial subjects and exploted their lands to enrich our own. Without such exploitation (which included forcing our own trade at the expense of their long established markets), Britain would not have reached the point of being one of the wealthiest nations on earth, And it was only with our increase in wealth as a nation that we could then focus on improving society for all in Britain. We are immensely fortunate to have been born British.

And yes we were able to take over many countries due to our advancement, but don't you (or anyone else here, including me) take credit; a few pioneers led the way, and we live the reward. If YOU want to take credit for the great things done by our history's great men then YOU can also take blamw for the horrors inflicted by us 'as a nation'.

Don't create this false impression Britain was a wonderful bringer of great ideas or an angel cone to help natives get ahead. I doubt many Aborigines, Native Americans, Indians etc felt or feel that way.

Particularly when the advancement was MILITARY, more advanced at KILLING PEOPLE.
but 100% agree with your post Les.

and IF anyone wonders why people like to put down Britain it is because of posts like Tommy's.
Like I said when men like him cry about being 'oppressed' it DOES NOT makes us feel sorry for them.
it just reminds us that Britain has never really suffered and everything it has is from the suffering it caused.
To cry about being treated as equals  when you haven't even been made to give back the things the UK stole 

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