At Last A Forum With Free Speech- Newsfix Rocks.

[Major]

First topic message reminder :

The forums I have been on where you are banned for even thinking the things we freely discuss here.

We must be allowed to vent our views, even anger if we want to.

Sassy can even have her purely racist, hatred views of us Brits put into script.

Most forums say they have free speech but it is untrue when it comes to debating, queers, terrorists, Muslims lesbos and so on.

Newfix Rocks,





unless you know different.

[Original Quill]

I disagree.  It is a predicate for the rule-making and enforcement of the site.  Not in a legalistic sense, to be sure.  But in the sense that what is considered 'right and proper' comes from our acculturation.

Americans have been raised on the idea that you fight words with words, not laws.  This is generally referred to as 'open society' or 'free expression'.  The source of this acculturation is the First Amendment of the Constitution.  This legal principle is so much a part of the average American, that it is not just a law, but it permeates their very psyches.  

The rules on this forum are pretty much the same as on most forums. Whether they're enforced or not seems to depend on who's perceived to be breaking them.

Well, yes, personalities do intrude. But generally, British forums are tighter with what they consider proper and propitious than American forums. So you see a lot more officious activity on British boards.

For example, Ben has only banned two people that I'm aware of.

[Ben Reilly]

I never said the English deserved to be blown up -- at least not civilians. I do completely understand how a conquered nation would resist its occupiers and not capitulate.

But I've never condoned terrorism, and I explained that I posted that video out of anger. Actually, I've explained this several times -- I think you just enjoy trying to paint me into a corner where I have to do it over and over again.

I wasn't a member here when you posted that vid....I was about to join and it put me off for a couple of weeks.
I carried on reading though and am glad I didn't let that vid put me off completely because I like this forum so far.
I'm happy to see you say you posted it in anger.

Just to add I having posted with her for years, and we often dont agree with one another,but  I have never seen Raggamuffin deliberately lie about anyone.

Thank you Syl.

He allegedly posted it in anger against someone he'd just banned, so they couldn't reply anyway, and then he ranted on and on about how awful the Brits are.

I've said over and over that I did post it in anger, that I don't support the IRA, but I can see there's no way for me to convince you.

[Raggamuffin]

The rules on this forum are pretty much the same as on most forums. Whether they're enforced or not seems to depend on who's perceived to be breaking them.

Well, yes, personalities do intrude.  But generally, British forums are tighter with what they consider proper and propitious than American forums.  So you see a lot more officious activity on British boards.

For example, Ben has only banned two people that I'm aware of.

Three actually - recently that is.

[Raggamuffin]

Thank you Syl.

He allegedly posted it in anger against someone he'd just banned, so they couldn't reply anyway, and then he ranted on and on about how awful the Brits are.

I've said over and over that I did post it in anger, that I don't support the IRA, but I can see there's no way for me to convince you.

No there isn't.

Perhaps you could now explain who I've lied about on this forum. You've seen the quotes from Veya, who did exactly what I said he did.

[Syl]

I wasn't a member here when you posted that vid....I was about to join and it put me off for a couple of weeks.
I carried on reading though and am glad I didn't let that vid put me off completely because I like this forum so far.
I'm happy to see you say you posted it in anger.

Just to add I having posted with her for years, and we often dont agree with one another,but  I have never seen Raggamuffin deliberately lie about anyone.

Thank you Syl.

He allegedly posted it in anger against someone he'd just banned, so they couldn't reply anyway, and then he ranted on and on about how awful the Brits are.

I had the same opinion about Scots not so long ago having seen the way they operate on certain forums.
Thankfully I'm past that now.

[Ben Reilly]

Thank you Syl.

He allegedly posted it in anger against someone he'd just banned, so they couldn't reply anyway, and then he ranted on and on about how awful the Brits are.

I've said over and over that I did post it in anger, that I don't support the IRA, but I can see there's no way for me to convince you.

No there isn't.

Perhaps you could now explain who I've lied about on this forum. You've seen the quotes from Veya, who did exactly what I said he did.

You've lied about me, over and over again. You know, it's a hell of a thing to falsely accuse someone of supporting terrorism.

[Raggamuffin]

No there isn't.

Perhaps you could now explain who I've lied about on this forum. You've seen the quotes from Veya, who did exactly what I said he did.

You've lied about me, over and over again. You know, it's a hell of a thing to falsely accuse someone of supporting terrorism.

I haven't lied. You've just excused the IRA all over again, so don't give me that bullshit.

Now who have I lied about?

[Guest]

Calm down pee wee, you did say you understood their armed action.
Sorry I do not, as you can obtain peace with democratic nations.

I understand that conquered people will use violence to regain their freedom -- if you don't understand this, what can I say?

I never said the IRA was justified in murdering civilians, but that I understand the fundamental principle of attacking those who are trying to take your land from you.

Or should the Middle East just cower and let ISIS create its new caliphate?

But you fail to understand anything because the demographics had changed by the 20th century.
So to say you understand the violence is failing to even understand the conflict itself.
By then many of the decsdents of traitor Scottish celts were in the majority and every group has a right to self determination, so it was not occupation. Unless you want to call yourself in occupation to formerly Spanish colonial lands and then formely then by the native indians.

So are you in occupation of these Lands Ben?

So ISIS are a recent armed group that has violently taken over, that was not the case in the 20th century in Ireland.
Now I want Ireland more than anyone to be united, but I respect the self determination of people, so there is utterly no justification for the violence from either side, whether Prodestant Or catholic Irish and by the British with the Black and Tans.

Comprende?

[Raggamuffin]

So now Ben is comparing Brits with ISIS. Which bit of - the majority of people in Northern Ireland want to be British - does he not understand?

[Original Quill]

I understand.  I believe that is the distinction between rule-making and reaction.  Certainly Americans can be as opinionated as anyone.  That is human.

But rule-making has to do with legislating...laws, regulations, statutes, canons, or indeed, anyone in a rule-making role.  That is a different activity.  One recognizes when s/he is in a rule-making capacity, and follows the norms she or he has been taught.  For example, the makers of the rules of this site, being American, are more likely to reject any kind of censorship--simply because it is a part of their acculturation.

Yes, Americans can privately be quite dogmatic.  But another part of American acculturation is learning the difference between expression your own opinion, and legislating for others.  In fact, free expression is partly responsible for Americans having more entrenched opinions and attitudes.  For, to voice something is to engage in reduction of cognitive dissonance.  

I will have to read this a couple of times before it all makes sense to me Quill, but thanks for the explanation,

I'm sorry, I didn't meant to turn it into psychology 101. The point is that to lift the restraints of censorship, as it were, has the effect of enhancing everyone's voice and reifying their opinions.

[Ben Reilly]

So now Ben is comparing Brits with ISIS. Which bit of - the majority of people in Northern Ireland want to be British - does he not understand?

How did NI get that way?

[Ben Reilly]

Calm down pee wee, you did say you understood their armed action.
Sorry I do not, as you can obtain peace with democratic nations.

I understand that conquered people will use violence to regain their freedom -- if you don't understand this, what can I say?

I never said the IRA was justified in murdering civilians, but that I understand the fundamental principle of attacking those who are trying to take your land from you.

Or should the Middle East just cower and let ISIS create its new caliphate?

But you fail to understand anything because the demographics had changed by the 20th century.
So to say you understand the violence is failing to even understand the conflict itself.
By then many of the decsdents of traitor Scottish celts were in the majority and every group has a right to self determination, so it was not occupation. Unless you want to call yourself in occupation to formerly Spanish colonial lands and then formely then by the native indians.

So are you in occupation of these Lands Ben?

So ISIS are a recent armed group that has violently taken over, that was not the case in the 20th century in Ireland.
Now I want Ireland more than anyone to be united, but I respect the self determination of people, so there is utterly no justification for the violence from either side, whether Prodestant Or catholic Irish and by the British with the Black and Tans.

Comprende?

The U.S. totally stole its land from the Native Americans, yes. A horrible thing was done.

[Original Quill]

Well, yes, personalities do intrude.  But generally, British forums are tighter with what they consider proper and propitious than American forums.  So you see a lot more officious activity on British boards.

For example, Ben has only banned two people that I'm aware of.

Three actually - recently that is.

I don't know of the third.

[Syl]

I will have to read this a couple of times before it all makes sense to me Quill, but thanks for the explanation,

I'm sorry, I didn't meant to turn it into psychology 101.  The point is that to lift the restraints of censorship, as it were, has the effect of enhancing everyone's voice and reifying their opinions.

No it's me Quill....flu accompanied by a head that feels like it's filled with cotton wool, I can only absorb one syllable words at the minute. x

[eddie]

I'm still waiting for Ben to back up what he said about me lying about people here all the time.

For the record, I have never though that about you.
I think you're quite honest actually, it's one of the things I like about you.

[Guest]

But you fail to understand anything because the demographics had changed by the 20th century.
So to say you understand the violence is failing to even understand the conflict itself.
By then many of the decsdents of traitor Scottish celts were in the majority and every group has a right to self determination, so it was not occupation. Unless you want to call yourself in occupation to formerly Spanish colonial lands and then formely then by the native indians.

So are you in occupation of these Lands Ben?

So ISIS are a recent armed group that has violently taken over, that was not the case in the 20th century in Ireland.
Now I want Ireland more than anyone to be united, but I respect the self determination of people, so there is utterly no justification for the violence from either side, whether Prodestant Or catholic Irish and by the British with the Black and Tans.

Comprende?

The U.S. totally stole its land from the Native Americans, yes. A horrible thing was done.

So its not your fault or any other american citizens, because the demographics have changed, and thus there would be no justification for any terrorism by Native Aemerican Indians.
You do realise the conquests of Ireland was centuries before?
So the people of Northern Ireland, even though were in many cases they are descendents from scottish celtic traitors, are not at fault from what happened in the past and have a right to self determination.
Hence it is illogical to claim occupation, do you understand that?

[Raggamuffin]

So now Ben is comparing Brits with ISIS. Which bit of - the majority of people in Northern Ireland want to be British - does he not understand?

How did NI get that way?

It doesn't matter. If the majority didn't want to be British, I'd completely support them breaking loose. In fact, I don't care if they're part of the UK or not, but they want to be - that's democracy.

You are excusing a bunch of murderers targeting English people in England who have nothing to do with NI, and are not responsible for anything that happened there. They murdered children FFS, and you sit there justifying what they did.

[Raggamuffin]

I'm still waiting for Ben to back up what he said about me lying about people here all the time.

For the record, I have never though that about you.
I think you're quite honest actually, it's one of the things I like about you.

Thank you eddie.

[Raggamuffin]

Three actually - recently that is.

I don't know of the third.

VOD, HF, and Smelly.

[Original Quill]

I'm sorry, I didn't meant to turn it into psychology 101.  The point is that to lift the restraints of censorship, as it were, has the effect of enhancing everyone's voice and reifying their opinions.

No it's me Quill....flu accompanied by a head that feels like it's filled with cotton wool, I can only absorb one syllable words at the minute. x

Oh, wow, I'm sorry...I hope you get over it soon.  Best wishes.

[Original Quill]

I don't know of the third.

VOD, HF, and Smelly.

Too bad. Still, that is precious few compared to British sites I've experienced. On FF there was usually a banning an hour. Lol.

[Syl]

No it's me Quill....flu accompanied by a head that feels like it's filled with cotton wool, I can only absorb one syllable words at the minute. x

Oh, wow, I'm sorry...I hope you get over it soon.  Best wishes.

Thank you. x

[eddie]

Really? Tell me what lies I've told all the time about people here. You will back up what you just said won't you? After all, if you can't, that would make you a liar.

All the time you're calling me an IRA supporter, terrorist sympathizer, etc.

That's not a lie - you do support the IRA.

No he doesn't

[Raggamuffin]

That's not a lie - you do support the IRA.

No he doesn't

Yes he does.

[Original Quill]

How did NI get that way?

It doesn't matter. If the majority didn't want to be British, I'd completely support them breaking loose. In fact, I don't care if they're part of the UK or not, but they want to be - that's democracy.

Same argument could be made about North/South Dakota, Montana, or indeed Arizona and New Mexico.  Now that we've moved in and shuffled them out, let's have a democracy.

[Guest]

No he doesn't

Yes he does.

He does not support their actions, he states he understands their ressistance, which as seen I beg to differ on because he is viewing Northern ireland as if in occupation. Which is wrong as seen, as the demographics have changed.
Understanding is far removed from supporting

[Raggamuffin]

It doesn't matter. If the majority didn't want to be British, I'd completely support them breaking loose. In fact, I don't care if they're part of the UK or not, but they want to be - that's democracy.

Same argument could be made about North/South Dakota, Montana, or indeed Arizona and New Mexico.  Now that we've moved in and shuffled them out, let's have a democracy.

I don't understand that post at all.

People in England are in England, not in NI, but the IRA targeted them anyway.

[Raggamuffin]

Yes he does.

He does not support their actions, he states he understands their ressistance, which as seen I beg to differ on because he is viewing Northern ireland as if in occupation. Which is wrong as seen, as the demographics have changed.
Understanding is far removed from supporting

I don't see it that way - I see that he supports them.

[Original Quill]

Same argument could be made about North/South Dakota, Montana, or indeed Arizona and New Mexico.  Now that we've moved in and shuffled them out, let's have a democracy.

I don't understand that post at all.

People in England are in England, not in NI, but the IRA targeted them anyway.

Well, if they consider themselves--rightly or wrongly--at war, you go where the enemy is.  I don't condone what the IRA does, but it is a classic cultural dispute. Like E. Timor or Rwanda...not to mention Islam.

[Guest]

He does not support their actions, he states he understands their ressistance, which as seen I beg to differ on because he is viewing Northern ireland as if in occupation. Which is wrong as seen, as the demographics have changed.
Understanding is far removed from supporting

I don't see it that way - I see that he supports them.

That is up to you Rags, I do not think he is, but like I say and this is actually a good example and have met American of Irish descent before, ones who did actually support the IRA, who did not have a clue of the conflict and viewed Northern Ireland as in occupation, which is wrong and false, as people had been by then living there for generations. Again a narative of hate was played out in Irish communities in the US and why Irish Americans bought into this hate and where some activelly supported the IRA with money and weapons.

Again see how the hateful narative plays a part in a conflict with terrorism?

[Raggamuffin]

I don't see it that way - I see that he supports them.

That is up to you Rags, I do not think he is, but like I say and this is actually a good example and have met American os Irish descent before, ones who did actually support the IRA, who did not have a clue of the conflict and viewed Northern Ireland as in occupation, which is wrong and false, as people had been by then living there for generations. Again a narative of hate was played out in Irish communities in the US and why Irish Americans bought into this hate and where some activelly supported the IRA with money and weapons.

Again see how the hateful narative plays a part in a conflict with terrorism?

That's how Ben sees it. If he had bothered to read the thread about Corbyn's appeasement of the IRA, he would have known what I think about IRA supporters, excusers, and enablers. He chose to post a pro-IRA video - nobody made him do that.

[Guest]

That is up to you Rags, I do not think he is, but like I say and this is actually a good example and have met American os Irish descent before, ones who did actually support the IRA, who did not have a clue of the conflict and viewed Northern Ireland as in occupation, which is wrong and false, as people had been by then living there for generations. Again a narative of hate was played out in Irish communities in the US and why Irish Americans bought into this hate and where some activelly supported the IRA with money and weapons.

Again see how the hateful narative plays a part in a conflict with terrorism?

That's how Ben sees it. If he had bothered to read the thread about Corbyn's appeasement of the IRA, he would have known what I think about IRA supporters, excusers, and enablers. He chose to post a pro-IRA video - nobody made him do that.

Its not just the IRA though Rags as many Northern Irish were victims of Ulslter loyalists terrorism and discrimination and the British with bad policies did create much of the mess, so many have to be blaimed here, not just the IRA and I have more reason to hate them than most.

[nicko]

Yes, that video rather upset me.

[Raggamuffin]

That's how Ben sees it. If he had bothered to read the thread about Corbyn's appeasement of the IRA, he would have known what I think about IRA supporters, excusers, and enablers. He chose to post a pro-IRA video - nobody made him do that.

Its not just the IRA though Rags as many Northern Irish were victims of Ulslter loyalists terrorism and discrimination and the British with bad policies did create much of the mess, so many have to be blaimed here, not just the IRA and I have more reason to hate them than most.

Well then the IRA had an argument with those people, not random people who live in England. The people in England who the IRA killed had no say in what happened in NI, and it wasn't their fight, but that didn't stop the IRA murdering them.

[Raggamuffin]

Yes, that video rather upset me.  

It was designed to upset British people for no apparent reason. It didn't upset many of them, and they turned a blind eye. Nems didn't of course.

[Guest]

Its not just the IRA though Rags as many Northern Irish were victims of Ulslter loyalists terrorism and discrimination and the British with bad policies did create much of the mess, so many have to be blaimed here, not just the IRA and I have more reason to hate them than most.

Well then the IRA had an argument with those people, not random people who live in England. The people in England who the IRA killed had no say in what happened in NI, and it wasn't their fight, but that didn't stop the IRA murdering them.

No that did not stop them but the conflict is far more complicated than you understand.
Again many Irish catholics were discrminated against by British policies, where many could not even get jobs.
Like I say I blame many groups here and not just the IRA. Many of the Irish catholics were murdered also and if you want to learn some of the worst aspects of British rule, then look up the Black and Tans

[Raggamuffin]

Well then the IRA had an argument with those people, not random people who live in England. The people in England who the IRA killed had no say in what happened in NI, and it wasn't their fight, but that didn't stop the IRA murdering them.

No that did not stop them but the conflict is far more complicated than you understand.
Again many Irish catholics were discrminated against by British policies, where many could not even get jobs.
Like I say I blame many groups here and not just the IRA. Many of the Irish catholics were murdered also and if you want to learn some of the worst aspects of British rule, then look up the Black and Tans

I do understand it. What I can't be doing with is people who excuse the attacks on people in England and/or civilians in NI by accusing them of "conquering" NI.

[Guest]

No that did not stop them but the conflict is far more complicated than you understand.
Again many Irish catholics were discrminated against by British policies, where many could not even get jobs.
Like I say I blame many groups here and not just the IRA. Many of the Irish catholics were murdered also and if you want to learn some of the worst aspects of British rule, then look up the Black and Tans

I do understand it. What I can't be doing with is people who excuse the attacks on people in England and/or civilians in NI by accusing them of "conquering" NI.

Which the same must apply for centuries of British and English, Scottish brutality in Ireland

[Raggamuffin]

I do understand it. What I can't be doing with is people who excuse the attacks on people in England and/or civilians in NI by accusing them of "conquering" NI.

Which the same must apply for centuries of British and English, Scottish brutality in Ireland

I'm not really interested in going that far back. I'm talking about someone posting a pro-IRA video and excusing the IRA.

[Ben Reilly]

I do understand it. What I can't be doing with is people who excuse the attacks on people in England and/or civilians in NI by accusing them of "conquering" NI.

Which the same must apply for centuries of British and English, Scottish brutality in Ireland

I'm not really interested in going that far back. I'm talking about someone posting a pro-IRA video and excusing the IRA.

Get over it!

[Guest]

Which the same must apply for centuries of British and English, Scottish brutality in Ireland

I'm not really interested in going that far back. I'm talking about someone posting a pro-IRA video and excusing the IRA.

Which shows how little you understand of the history and persecution of the Irish.
My late father could not get a job in Northern Ireland, because he was Catholic.
He went to interviews and they were always keen until they found out his religion.
So Rags, you have no comprehension of what people suffered and he was not even British or Irish

[Raggamuffin]

I'm not really interested in going that far back. I'm talking about someone posting a pro-IRA video and excusing the IRA.

Get over it!

You brought it up in the first place!

Now, about these lies you claim I've told ...

[Raggamuffin]

I'm not really interested in going that far back. I'm talking about someone posting a pro-IRA video and excusing the IRA.

Which shows how little you understand of the history and persecution of the Irish.
My late father could not get a job in Northern Ireland, because he was Catholic.
He went to interviews and they were always keen until they dound out his religion.
So Rags, you have no comprehension of what people suffered and he was not even British or Irish

I'm not interested in discussing the history of NI! FFS.

Go and suck up to Ben instead.

[Raggamuffin]

In fact, I think Ben brought it up so he wouldn't have to admit that he got it wrong about Veya.

[Guest]

Which shows how little you understand of the history and persecution of the Irish.
My late father could not get a job in Northern Ireland, because he was Catholic.
He went to interviews and they were always keen until they dound out his religion.
So Rags, you have no comprehension of what people suffered and he was not even British or Irish

I'm not interested in discussing the history of NI! FFS.

Go and suck up to Ben instead.

Which makes your views as appalling, because many people suffered there also, not just on mainland Britain.
You just made an utter hypocrite of yourself with now no justification to have any go at Ben

[Raggamuffin]

I'm not interested in discussing the history of NI! FFS.

Go and suck up to Ben instead.

Which makes your views as appalling, because many people suffered there also, not just on mainland Britain.
You just made an utter hypocrite of yourself with now no justification to have any go at Ben

I don't need your approval.

[Guest]

Which makes your views as appalling, because many people suffered there also, not just on mainland Britain.
You just made an utter hypocrite of yourself with now no justification to have any go at Ben

I don't need your approval.

And everyone can ignore your little tantrums you just had here.
It works both ways, I will rightly say if something is wrong and Ben was wrong to call you a liar, but your views not to give a shit whilst claiming victim status only of the British was the worse hypocrisy going.
Its not about you needing my apporval, I will just happilly show up your double standards

You just made your rant look meaningless

[Raggamuffin]

I don't need your approval.

And everyone can ignore your little tantrums you just had here.
It works both ways, I will rightly say if something is wrong and Ben was wrong to call you a liar, but your views not to give a shit whilst claiming victim status only of the British was the worse hypocrisy going.
Its not about you needing my apporval, I will just happilly show up your double standards

You just made your rant look meaningless

You can say what you like, but talking about "tantrums" is a bit stupid coming from the forum flouncer of the year. You got over your lack of "respect" for Ben quick enough didn't you? No doubt you saw the chance to redeem yourself and suck up to him once again.

[Raggamuffin]

I stand by what I said about Ben, and if he can't back up this claim that I lie all the time about people on this forum, I'll continue to call him a liar.

[Guest]

And everyone can ignore your little tantrums you just had here.
It works both ways, I will rightly say if something is wrong and Ben was wrong to call you a liar, but your views not to give a shit whilst claiming victim status only of the British was the worse hypocrisy going.
Its not about you needing my apporval, I will just happilly show up your double standards

You just made your rant look meaningless

You can say what you like, but talking about "tantrums" is a bit stupid coming from the forum flouncer of the year. You got over your lack of "respect" for Ben quick enough didn't you? No doubt you saw the chance to redeem yourself and suck up to him once again.

I have no problem admitting when I get annoyed or leave, that is my failing and admit them.
As seen the issue with you Rags, is you cannot take constructive criticism and take everything to personal.
Anyway like I say you claim to be offended was a complete sham if you do not give a shit about all who suffered and in fact it comes across as you actually hating the Irish.
I told Ben my views on him and moved on, that is what posters do.
As I say you are just a little spoilt brat to used to getting your own way.

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