Israel and Apartheid

by Guest Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:22 pm

First topic message reminder :

Mira Bar Hillel

Friday 13 December 2013

The lame excuses made up by Israeli premier Benjamin Netanyahu for failing to go to Nelson Mandela’s memorial on Tuesday have raised eyebrows and wry smiles all over the world. Having insisted on a £150,000 refit of the plane he and his wife took for the five-hour flight to Lady Thatcher’s funeral in London earlier this year, the trip to Johannesburg would, he claimed, be “too costly”. This from a man who spends thousands a year – from the public purse - on pistachio ice-cream and scented candles.

However, it is quite possible that Mr Netanyahu may have been less than ecstatically welcomed in the new South Africa anyway, following revelations that the country’s apartheid regime was the Israeli defense industry’s biggest customer and sponsor.

For many years it was virtually a capital offence to use the word “apartheid” as an analogy to policies of the Israeli government in the Occupied Territories. In 2007 my friend Danny Rubenstein, the venerated Arab Affairs analyst of Haaretz newspaper, was invited by the Zionist Federation of Great Britain to address an event. On his way he stopped to address a UN committee in Brussels, and used the word “apartheid” to describe Israel’s attitude towards the Palestinians.

In response, he was unceremoniously dumped by the ZFGB and left high and dry in a B&B in Golders Green on a Friday night. He was eventually rescued by the New Fund for Israel and invited to a crowded gathering in a North London Reform synagogue.

But while Rubenstein was mainly concerned to warn the audience of the dangers of Israel following in the footsteps of the Afrikaaners, his interviewer – and most of the questioners - kept harping on what was constantly, if coyly, referred to as “the A-word”.

Yet it now emerges that for decades Israel supported the “A-word” regime and its military with advanced weapon systems at a time when Western sanctions meant no one else would. According to Haaretz editor Aluf Benn, the cooperation reached its peak in the late 1980s, the twilight of the apartheid regime.

In the summer of 1988, Benn says, Israel reportedly sold South Africa 60 Kfir combat planes in a hushed-up deal worth $1.7 billion. The planes were upgraded and renamed Atlas Cheetah and Israel’s involvement was played down because the US was party to the sanctions regime, according to Haaretz.

Israel joined the international sanctions in 1987 but said it would honour existing contracts so the deal went ahead anyway. A few weeks later, the Israelis launched the first Ofek reconnaissance satellite which Benn claims could only have been developed with South African funding. And only in 1991 was the US able to force the Israeli government to stop selling SA short and midrange missiles.

Maps which were only revealed in the past few days show how the Israelis plan to create bantustans for the Nomadic Bedouin in its southern Negev region. Tens of thousands of them would be forced into ghettoes to make way for new Jewish towns and military zones. A-word, anyone?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israel-and-apartheid-confused-you-will-be-9001321.html

The Israeli Government has got away with too much for too long. I got a communication from some Israeli peace protesters I am in touch with about Netanyahu's excuse for not going to Nelson Mandela's memorial. They had just heard about all this.

by Guest Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:41 pm

Sassy wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:Well do you back these leaders, that persecute Christians, torture people into confessions and then murder them, segregates schools over sex, enforce Islamism in schools and wants to wipe out all Jews from existence, I could go on the list is endless, I would say exactly the same thing if a Zionist party was in power in Israel and yes some Zionists do have influence, but they don;t run things, if they did, there would be no Palestine at all.

You didn't read my thread on what the Israeli's are doing to Christians then? I'll post it on here.

And what about the thousands, and it is thousands of woman and children that Israeli's have killed and maimed and burnt down their houses, and taken their land etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc?

Jesus, and that makes the persecution of Christians okay by Hamas if persecution of Christians happen in Israel?
Seriously, is that your argument, when both would be wrong?

by Guest Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:43 pm

Shut up trying to divert. Read it, its the muslims that are trying to help.

by Guest Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:45 pm

Sassy wrote:Shut up trying to divert. Read it, its the muslims that are trying to help.

I read many things thank you, again are you trying to justify the persecution of Christians by Hamas, because of persecutions in Israel, when both are wrong?

Second time asking

by Guest Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:50 pm

Don't be thick, I justify neither, you ignore what Israel does, read the thread and comment.

by Guest Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:54 pm

I don't ignore anything as to me both sides do wrong, you though only see one side do wrong and as seen back an extremists Islamist group in Hamas, I think Fatah is a much better option for the people of Palestine, but my point was to show you Hamas have committed many crimes just like Israel and you tried to poorly excuse this by saying Israel persecutes Christians, trying to overlook that Hamas does.

I am not sure how many times I can repeat this for you so that it can sink in, both sides do many wrongs!

by Guest Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:57 pm

Does it have to be in words of one syllable for you. I have just said I justify neither, but all you talk about is Hamas and never ever say anything about what the Israeli's do to Christians. You are such a wimp you won't even read the thread and comment on it.

Yes Didge, both sides do wrongs, looks at the statistics, Israel kills far more Palestinian civilians, and Palestine hasn't taken any Israeli land.

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:00 am

OMG its like a broken record, I have said repeatedly both sides do wrong, I would rather Fatah was in control in Gaza and not Hamas because as stated already if you had bothered to follow both Hamas and Zionists do not want peace. I am against any persecutions whether it Be by Israel or Palestine.

And we are back to tit for tat arguments on who does what, bloody clueless

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:04 am

Yes aren't you. Because you can't have peace until Israel stops building on Palestine, and they won't. And it's not Zionists doing that, it's the Government doing it for settlers, some are Zionist, some aren't, but they all believe that Palestinian land is theirs for the taking.

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:06 am

Yes Israel needs to stop building I have never denied this, but again both sides need to reconcile, which you only want to blame Israel in every thread you start, that is clueless as was claiming apartheid here when citizens in Israel have far more rights than they do in Palestine or any surrounding nation, no matter if they are Jew or Arab.

Go figure

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:08 am

You can't reconcile with people who are still stealing everything you own and are going to carry on doing it, they have said so.

And Palestinians are living under apartheid.

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:10 am

Oh dear here we go again same old pointless blame game and Palestinians are ruled by Palestinians in Hamas and Fatah!

Your arguments are pointless and there will be no reconciliation with people like yourself, no doubt you would be happy if Israel was over run and placed under Islamism

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:16 am

Gloop, pure unadulterated pointless gloop.

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:18 am

As seen there is no apartheid, only in the minds of the delusional it seems

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:18 am

Sticky sticky gloop

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:21 am

In your eyes?
Then dont wear so much mascara, has nobody told you that you cannot cover up ugliness?

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:22 am

glub glub glub glub glub.

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:32 am

Bless

:D

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:33 am

Pull plug from sink full of gloop, glug glug glug.

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:39 am

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:17 am

PhilDidge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

LOLZ ://?roflmao?/:
please do :/pwn://:

seriously u think we want u here? you cant even add intelligent input to any debate.

I don't mind Shady and Andy at least they have a brain (even if I do disagree with several of their points) and they can follow a fucking thread rather than just trying to attack a poster they have had arguments with in the past on board that is CLOSED because some small dicked wannbe macho closet faggots needed to get their jollies out expressing their rage on the internet, like big men because their lives are actually so fucking sad and they are forced to suck it all day by people smarter more educated and better paid them themselves.

Now who's goading?
Quill is very intelligent for the record by the way Veya and I don;t agree with him on a few view points and many are guilty here of spilling over old feuds, so to point this out to only one is a tad unfair to say the least, so lets how about drop this, for my part I will apologise now to Irn for calling him a liar, as have respect for the man, just we have lots of banter too, but happy to say it was wrong thing to say and should have just continued pushing as Ben stated a better concise reason.

Calling someone faggots is also very poor, if you think calling someone straight with an insult to being gay, when there is nothing wrong with some people who are gay, then you have no understanding in regards to those with homophobic views.

Guess the finger puppet missed this

by veya_victaous Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:55 am

@phil
LOLZ
I actually pointed out Shady for surprising me with good behaviour, Quill was used as an example of the responses I expected. then he responded with a 'fuck you'.

I actually assumed he was a homophobe so calling him gay would hit a soft spot geek

And I saw you apologise for the liar comment but I assumed Ben Handled it. I must admit you have also been surprising in the moderation of your comments, Not the RW nazi jobs we were afraid were invading our forum. :::hitler: affraid

by Original Quill Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:10 am

Nah...not gay. And definitely not a homophobe. I live in San Francisco, fcs.

I do think that if you want to insult someone, you might stay away from the gay thing. To even suggest that being gay is an insult...is an insult. Can't touch it without being in hot water.

If you really want to get to me, call me the pus from the germ that feeds on pond scum. That'll get me every time. :D

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:42 am

veya_victaous wrote:@phil
LOLZ
I actually pointed out Shady for surprising me with good behaviour, Quill was used as an example of the responses I expected. then he responded with a 'fuck you'.

I actually assumed he was a homophobe so calling him gay would hit a soft spot

And I saw you apologise for the liar comment but I assumed Ben Handled it. I must admit you have also been surprising in the moderation of your comments, Not the RW nazi jobs we were afraid were invading our forum. :::hitler:

To be honest Veya many RW people are not as people like to stereotype them with, many assume them to be racist, homophobic etc, when the reality is many stand against such hate also, as you can find people with racist views who are left or right wing, you just tend to have more on the far right. To be honest I thought Quill was defending himself again a spill over of feuds from a previous forum, where some use gang mentality to goad posters.

Some will use racial arguments not seeing that in fact the argument is a racist one using race, when we are all biologically one race.
Quill has extensive knowledge and like me where you disagree with something you get hounded over it, like for example being told you support people being starved when this is not the reality at all but a poor tactic used to try and belittle someone just because they back the view benefits needed to change, after a recession, which had an unfair benefits system which favored people to not be in work than work. I very much stand behind any views that try to associate all Muslims with violence, but will as here show where a form of Islam is very wrong, Islamism, just as Zionism is bad, but this thread in my view is another daily attempt to vilify Israel whilst not seeing the full picture. How a nation has fought for its very existence since it was created, to have the most ridiculous claims of apartheid to here where they are in fact trying to resolve the Bedouin claim over lands, which to be honest the Bedouin are not helping themselves being stubborn to claims over deserts, when they could have proper ownership of land and far better living conditions. To also go on about a non attendance to a funeral of Mandela from my own posts you will see I respect greatly who as stated I respect Obama, who never turned up for Margaret Thatchers funeral, yet some of these posters making the claim were singing ding dong the witch is dead, thus to me they would no doubt excuse the non attendance of one leader but in the same breath here condemn another, when both should have turned up. To me the arguments at times can be very hypocritical.

by veya_victaous Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:16 am

Well I don't think the Israeli guy should have gone, so I agree on that point.

Regarding Muslims and Welfare I disagree.

I believe the fight against welfare is a classic misdirection tactic by the mega rich, pointing to the Symptom and not the Cause. the cause being their own greed and usury, driving the ever increasing gap between rich and poor.

I think similarly with the Muslims, the real issue is wests involvement in the middle east and to the average Joe like me or you, we could it leave, it would make very little difference to out lives, possibly make them safer. but too many of the mega rich have investments over there so the west has to keep poking he ants nest.

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:18 am

veya_victaous wrote:Well I don't think the Israeli guy should have gone, so I agree on that point.

Regarding Muslims and Welfare I disagree.

I believe the fight against welfare is a classic misdirection tactic by the mega rich, pointing to the Symptom and not the Cause. the cause being their own greed and usury, driving the ever increasing gap between rich and poor.

I think similarly with the Muslims, the real issue is wests involvement in the middle east and to the average Joe like me or you, we could it leave, it would make very little difference to out lives, possibly make them safer. but too many of the mega rich have investments over there so the west has to keep poking he ants nest.

I have no issue with your point on involvement, is not my issue or point as this has to me escalated and fuelled Islamism, the extremists have played on this and drawn more to their cause, but Islamism is a problem, not to be taken lightly something the Muslim world themselves need to be tackling.

i would like to see more done for the poor nut it is never clear cut as it seem, you only have to look at France to see many will leave if tax heavy and thus nobody wins. Is that right? Of course not but until many cooperation's change views it is a difficult position going forward

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:58 am

veya_victaous wrote:Well I don't think the Israeli guy should have gone, so I agree on that point.

Regarding Muslims and Welfare I disagree.

I believe the fight against welfare is a classic misdirection tactic by the mega rich, pointing to the Symptom and not the Cause. the cause being their own greed and usury, driving the ever increasing gap between rich and poor.

I think similarly with the Muslims, the real issue is wests involvement in the middle east and to the average Joe like me or you, we could it leave, it would make very little difference to out lives, possibly make them safer. but too many of the mega rich have investments over there so the west has to keep poking he ants nest.

Muslims have a different banking system to ours Veya, it is against Islam to charge interest on loans.

This thread was never about Obama, it was about what Israel is doing to Palestinians, and even to Israelis who happen to be Bedouin.

What Israeli's are doing is illegal and immoral and against all laws of justice. The only interference by the West is America giving them billions of dollars' worth of armaments and not sanctioning them when they do even more illegal things. Look at a map of the Middle East with Israel on it as established, then look at a present day map. All the extra land they have taken, which has more than doubled their size, has been taken illegally, stolen. And they are continuing their expansion while the world looks on and the plight of the Palestinians gets worse and worse.

Just one statistic:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html

At least 1,104 Israelis and 6,836 Palestinians
have been killed since September 29, 2000.

Source: B'Tselem, The Israeli Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories. (Visit their statistics page, last updated September 30, 2013.)

The numbers cited above include civilians and combatants killed by members of the opposing nationality (and therefore, do not include Palestinians killed by an explosive device that they set or was on their person, Israelis killed in 'friendly fire' incidents, etc.). The numbers also do not include the sizable number of Palestinians who died as a result of inability to reach medical care due to Israeli road closures, curfews, the Israeli closure of border crossing from Gaza, etc.

The figure for Palestinian deaths is extremely conservative, since it is difficult for B'Tselem to report on deaths in the Palestinian territories. The Palestine Red Crescent Society, internationally respected for its statistical rigor, reports significantly higher numbers of Palestinian deaths. We do not doubt the reliability of their data, and only use B'Tselem's more conservative numbers because they collect data on both populations.

In the past we used the statistics provided by Israel’s military for the number of Israelis killed, but they have not updated their statistics page since early in 2006. In addition, there is reason to believe that their numbers may have been somewhat inflated.

Of those 129 were Israeli children, 1,519 were Palestinian children.

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:08 pm

So its a number game to Stasi and not about that innocents die on both sides.
Any innocent deaths are wrong, which means both sides have done wrong but how many are deliberate targeting of civilians?
How many were places where terrorists were hiding within civilian areas.

So genuine reality is needed here on the matter, as there is no doubt Israel has made so poor decisions on targets, which have led to Civilian casualties, with Hamas there is no distinction

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:34 pm

Most of the Palestinian deaths are deliberate targeting of civilians, like the farmers whose land is beside the fence and who are shot while trying to work it.

Like the women who die in childbirth as checkpoints because the Israeli soldiers think it funny to stop them getting to hospital.

Like the children shot buying sweets. The list is endless.

The numbers also do not include the sizable number of Palestinians who died as a result of inability to reach medical care due to Israeli road closures, curfews, the Israeli closure of border crossing from Gaza, etc.

B'Tselem is an ISRAELI peace movement, it is very careful with its figures.

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:48 pm

OMG that says it all really, off the rails with bias beyond belief and clearly as batty as they come.

As stated there has been errors and I no doubt believe some crimes by Israeli soldiers but again you ignore one fact, with Hamas there is no distinction ever, to them, all are legitimate targets

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:49 pm

You obviously know fuck all about B'Tselem. I do.

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:51 pm

So you are telling me that Hamas do care about who they target?

Come on please tell me you think they care about who they target?

take your time

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:53 pm

Take you own time and tell me why Israeli's shoot farmers on their land, or let women in labour die rather than let them through a checkpoint, and laugh at it.

Ta ta for now.

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:56 pm

I asked first, which now you want to avoid, typical.

I have stated crimes have been committed by Israeli soldiers, if I am to believe your commie claims that is Stasi

So again

So you are telling me that Hamas do care about who they target?

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:05 pm

Tell me who shoots first.

by SEXY MAMA Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:43 pm

Didge you think its ok to target the Palestinians and in return they should let themselves be ethnically cleansed off? Hamas has always defended against the attacks.

You cant expect the Palestinians to sit back and not retaliate. Peace only comes about if its wanted you cant force it on.

The agenda of the Israelis has been very very clear from Day 1

by Guest Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:51 pm

The amount of land that has been stolen, the checks inside Palestinian territory to make their lives a misery, the embargo on Gaza, the bulldozing of legally owned homes, Israel taking the water, etc etc etc. Oh yes, they are going to sit back and take that. Who the hell would.

by Original Quill Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:05 am

SEXY MAMA wrote:Didge you think its ok to target the Palestinians and in return they should let themselves be ethnically cleansed off? Hamas has always defended against the attacks.

You cant expect the Palestinians to sit back and not retaliate. Peace only comes about if its wanted you cant force it on.

The agenda of the Israelis has been very very clear from Day 1

We see the same old arguments, SM. I think didge was quite clear. He wasn't singling out one side over the other. He was saying both sides are guilty of transgressions.

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:59 am

SEXY MAMA wrote:Didge you think its ok to target the Palestinians and in return they should let themselves be ethnically cleansed off? Hamas has always defended against the attacks.

You cant expect the Palestinians to sit back and not retaliate. Peace only comes about if its wanted you cant force it on.

The agenda of the Israelis has been very very clear from Day 1

Double post

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:17 am

PhilDidge wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:Didge you think its ok to target the Palestinians and in return they should let themselves be ethnically cleansed off? Hamas has always defended against the attacks.

You cant expect the Palestinians to sit back and not retaliate. Peace only comes about if its wanted you cant force it on.

The agenda of the Israelis has been very very clear from Day 1

Hi Sexy

There is no ethnic cleansing (that is sassy talk, which as usual is hyped up bullshit), seriously Israel has the capability to do so and yet each time there is a conflict, they do not wipe out the Palestinians, seriously Israel has far better rights for Arabs in its own country, than in any nation around them

The Israelis have had only one real agenda from the start, survival, being as from day one it was recognized by many except the Arab nations, which if they had actually recognized Israel none of this would have occurred, no wars, no displacement of 700,000 Palestinians from and 800,000 Jews from Muslim nations expelled without any due compensation for many.This would have seen for years to come little bloodshed and many innocent people not caught in the cross fire?

Tthen what has happened has happened, I cannot change that, but put yourself in Israel shows, how they have had wars started on them, which has if nothing more given more fuel and ammunition to the Zealots, who just like Hamas will play on people's fear, allowing them to become prejudice and clouded in judgement, it is an ongoing vicious circle, of which the key to breaking is within the grasp of both the Palestinians and Israeli's, by standing against extremism on both sides.

Blame does not work, and never has worked, thus only by each side reconciling, making a unified stand against both Hamas and the zealots, will they achieve peace.

Sexy you are clever and there is no denying wrongs by Israel, but if you go down the path of retribution (the sassy road), it only leads to further pain for all involved. At the end of the day, both you and sassy are arguing like smelly does on Islam, where he claims to be an expert, gets corrected on so many of the verses, yet believes his view is right even though his views are neologism. He like the Islamists have created their own meanings to much of Quran, hence why with his arguments he thinks he is right because there are Islamists and he argues they are Islam, one and the same, an illogical argument would you agree? This is the same with Sassy only see her point of view and no else and won't even dare to challenge her own views and perceptions

Here have a read of this, as it shows many things in a different light, I have no doubt sassy will not agree, oh well, but it will show sassy there is another side to everything, which allows then people to make up their own mind on the issue and hope like me that we support both Israel's and Palestinians having nationhood recognition,reconciling to then live in peace

http://www.policymic.com/articles/2387/why-do-palestinian-deaths-outnumber-israeli-deaths

Hi Quill

Thank you for clarifying, which we both know was obvious from the start and I still cannot believe they have not learnt anything from the legacy of Mandela

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:39 am

Bollocks! It's only the Israelis doing stuff like this:

The car accident

At around 18:30 on Thursday 14 March 2013, a car crashed into the back of a truck on Road 5 in Salfit Governorate, occupied Palestine. The driver and her 3 daughters were injured, one of them – seriously. The driver, Adva Biton, was going back to the illegal Israeli settler colony of Yakir when the accident occurred. She later claimed the accident was due to Palestinian youth throwing stones at her car. The driver of the truck, having testified immediately after the accident that he had pulled over because of a flat tyre, later changed his mind and said he had seen stones by the road.

There were no witnesses to the car accident. Nobody had seen any children or youth throwing stones that day.

The arrests

In the early hours of Friday 15 March 2013, masked Israeli soldiers, some with attack dogs, stormed the village of Hares, which is close to Road 5. More than 50 soldiers broke the doors of the villagers’ houses, demanding the whereabouts of their teenage sons. Ten boys were arrested that night, blindfolded, handcuffed, and transferred to an unknown location. The families were not informed of their sons’ alleged wrongdoings.

Two days later, a second wave of violent arrests took place. At around 3 o’clock in the morning, the Israeli army, accompanied by the Shabak (the Israeli secret service), entered the homes of 3 Palestinian adolescents. They had a piece of paper with their names in Hebrew. After forcing all the family members into one room, taking away their phones so that they wouldn’t call for help, and interrogating them, the soldiers handcuffed their sons, all aged 16-17.

“Kiss and hug your mother goodbye,” a Shabak agent told one boy. “You may never see her again.”

A week later, Israeli army jeeps again entered the village and arrested several boys, who had just come back home from school. The soldiers lined all of them up, including a 6-year-old, and threatened at gunpoint their uncle who pleaded for the soldiers to at least release the youngest children. The army then randomly chose 3 boys, handcuffed them behind their backs, blindfolded them, and took them away. The families were not informed about either the allegations against their children, or their exact location.

In total, 19 boys from the neighbouring villages of Hares and Kifl Hares were arrested with relation to the settler car accident. None of them had previously had any history of stone-throwing. After violent interrogations, most of the minors were released, except for five, who remain in Megiddo, an Israeli adult prison. These are the Hares Boys.

The interrogation

The arrested boys were subjected to a series of abuse and ill-behaviour that accounts as torture. Upon detention, they were kept in solitary confinement for up to two weeks. One boy, since released, described his cell: a windowless hole 1m wide and 2m long; there was no mattress or blanket to sleep on; toilet facilities were dirty; the six lights were kept on continuously, leading to the boy losing track of the time of the day; the food made him feel ill. The boy was denied lawyer; he was interrogated violently three times during three days, and eventually released after found not guilty at the trial.

Other boys have also told their lawyers of very similar treatment. They “confessed” of stone-throwing after being repeatedly abused in prison and during interrogations.

The charges

The five boys from Hares are charged with 25 counts of attempted murder each, apparently 1 count for every alleged stone thrown at passing cars. The Israeli prosecution insists that the boys consciously “intended to kill”; they are asking for the maximum punishment for attempted murder: 25 years to life imprisonment.

The prosecution’s case relies on the boys’ “confessions”, which have been obtained under torture, and 61 “witnesses,” some of which claim that their cars have been damaged by stones on that same day on Road 5. The latter only appeared after the car accident got a lot of media coverage as a “terrorist act”, and the Israeli prime minister Benyamin Natanyahu announced, after the boys’ arrest, that he “caught the terrorists that did it”. Other “witnesses” include the police and the Shabak, who were not even present at that location at the time. It is not clear whether the 61 “witnesses” have been properly questioned and their claims verified with CCTV footage, hospital admission data, or even if the alleged damage to their vehicles has been photographed or otherwise documented. Such information is not even available to the boys’ attorneys.

The implications

If the boys are convicted, this case would set a legal precedent which would allow the Israeli military to convict any Palestinian child or youngster for attempted murder in cases of stone-throwing.

The boys are now 16-17 years old. If the Israeli military get their way, the boys would only return to their homes and their families at the age of 41 – at best. Five young lives ruined with no evidence of their guilt is a spit in the face to our common principles of justice as human beings.

http://haresboys.wordpress.com/2013/06/15/first-post/

That's just an everyday event for the Palestinians, and nothing like it happens to Israelis or is likely to happen to Israelis, but it is a scenerio that is played out again and again every single day in Palestine.

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:00 am

So that is you evidence now is it sassy, one case, which we have one biased view of an event?

Oh well, ignore my points as you always do because they show your arguments to be weak!

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:01 am

One of thousands, do you want me to post the lot? I will.

And it is happening to them in THEIR OWN LAND, and nothing like it will ever happen to an Israeli.

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:25 am

Yes and will go through and post counter articles on them all to show balance.

You are an imbecile, because both sides do wrong, you only see one side who does wrong, hence you are an imbecile.

Right will catch up

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:25 am

There is no balance, because, IT DOESN'T HAPPEN TO ISRAELIS.

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:32 am

Really, they don;t get thousands of rockets fired at them or terrorist attempts then or the very threat of their existence? Fucking daft as can be this loose cannon.

Laters, no doubt you will have posted some more bull by the time I get back, when the point her is both sides are in the wrong

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:37 am

1 for them for every 100 on Palestine.

AND ISRAELI CHILDREN DON'T GET DRAGGED OUT OF THEIR BEDS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND TORTURED.

And Palestinian existence is much more threatened that Israeli, they are having their land taken every day and getting smaller and smaller, while Israel gets bigger and bigger ILLEGALLY.

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:40 am

Oh they do get tortured by Hamas, how daft again, you live in a dream world and again I have condemned wrongs by Israel which always escapes you, though you try to defend Hamas, a Islamist terrorist organisation

Israel is here to stay and Palestine is not their enemy, just you and other loony mongs!

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:44 am

No they don't, you find me one bit of evidence you tit, Hamas don't go into Israel, they can't because of all the checkpoints. My god you are such a no nothing it pointless talking to you. You really haven't got a frigging clue, and whats more, you don't want to know, because if he acknowledged it you would not be able to stand it.

Israel is taking over Palestine, not the other way round. What a total tit.

And, those children were taken from the West Bank, where there have been no rockets fired from and Hamas isn't in control.

by veya_victaous Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:00 pm

@phil
on the torture point you will find that Sassy is right Hamas don't have the capacity to 'raid' Israel and take captives. that why they are using two bit ballistic rockets, which don't even have basic guidance systems that is how antiquated/backyard they are.

they have taken the odd Israeli solider, but that is very few in comparison. Palestinians are definitely getting the worst of it over all. Really Israel is more concerned with operatives from Iran and other more powerful middle eastern Nations than Hamas, which is a poorly armed rabble compared to Israel's modern highly professional military.

And IF the west stopped intervening you would find Israel taken off the map pretty quickly. It is not a natural state of affairs for it to be there, the people were moved over 1700 years ago, the people that stayed were the Palestinians that have been the continual occupants since old testament times, literally the bible stories about the Jews conquering cities of the 'philistines'...

Philistine, Palestine they are the same place! they are the same people, they have been their since before Judaism began.

So since they have stuck it out for over 2700 years, I hope they get it back.

I also think if the West did let Israel fall, a lot of the animosity towards the west that generates the extremism would end. Hamas would cease to exist simple because it no longer had a good reason to.

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:06 pm

Thank you Veya, sorry, I get very angry when I hear what Didge says, because it is ignorance like that, that is letting the Israelis get away with causing untold misery, real unreimitting misery, to thousands of people in Palestine. How they stand it, I have no idea, and the Israeli peace movement people I have been in touch with for a long time, are so ashamed of what their government does in their name. People who spout crap like Didge, should be dragged there to see the real conditions and the awful things being done to them.

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