gay only resort!!! is this legal....??

First topic message reminder :

http://www.keywesttorquay.co.uk/

or is it hypocrisy....

Belatucadros wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:



But those rights are restricted to others for reasons of equality...

Incorrect, it occurs because of those who suffer inequality as a minority, brought about by people like you, who will never treat them as equals. There lies the problem and it stems from people like you. No places would even need to exists, if it was not for people like you who do not except them as equals. If they actually had equality, they would not seek such safe zones, ones where they can actually have some normality and be treated as equals, where people like you deny them this in the world they live in daily.

That is what you fail to understand. Apply that to anyone who suffers daily discrimination for who they are, no matter even if a minority. Understand there are some who will always look at you and never accept you as equal, as that is what they suffer and seek somewhere that they are not looked upon as unequal.

Until people like you change from your ignorance, they will constantly need such places to escape the daily world of inequality they live in, that you and others have created a nightmare for them. All dues to your ignorance and bigotry.

I notice Tommy avoided responding to this because he cannot respond to the facts.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

What does that have to do with some men wanting their own club, and you sneering at that?

Are you suggesting that the members of the Women's Institute are bigots because they like being part of an organisation for women?

I sneer at the necessity of a men's only club, not at the right of men to have one if they choose. A lot of people seem to be confused by the fact that I support people's right to do some things I don't agree with ...

I also sneer at this popular notion that intolerant people are more tolerant than tolerant people because intolerant people are tolerant of intolerance, whereas tolerant people are intolerant of intolerance.

Oh I see. You mean tolerance as in merely accepting that certain things are legal, but at the same time sneering, criticising, and mocking people for being different to you.

You are judging men who want a men's only club because you think they have no necessity for one. Would you also judge women who want a women's club? I don't know if you have a equivalent of the Women's Institute over there, but according to your logic, there's no real necessity for it.

There may be perfectly valid reasons why men are not comfortable in the company of women. They might not seem valid to you, but you're not in their shoes.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

What does that have to do with some men wanting their own club, and you sneering at that?

Are you suggesting that the members of the Women's Institute are bigots because they like being part of an organisation for women?

I sneer at the necessity of a men's only club, not at the right of men to have one if they choose. A lot of people seem to be confused by the fact that I support people's right to do some things I don't agree with ...

I also sneer at this popular notion that intolerant people are more tolerant than tolerant people because intolerant people are tolerant of intolerance, whereas tolerant people are intolerant of intolerance.

Oh I see. You mean tolerance as in merely accepting that certain things are legal, but at the same time sneering, criticising, and mocking people for being different to you.  

You are judging men who want a men's only club because you think they have no necessity for one. Would you also judge women who want a women's club? I don't know if you have a equivalent of the Women's Institute over there, but according to your logic, there's no real necessity for it.

There may be perfectly valid reasons why men are not comfortable in the company of women. They might not seem valid to you, but you're not in their shoes.

Yes, I will sneer and mock people who disagree with me, while retaining the right to eventually realize I wasn't the expert and that they had a point, because humility.

And, I don't doubt that there are men who have come up with reasons they don't want to be around women that I haven't thought of, because I actually tend to like women ...

Ah, didn't explain myself enough (it feels like I do that half the time here). I really do have two separate sets of values -- that which I think is right and that which I think we all have the right to do. I know, it's complicated. It's the difference in me telling you, please don't ever use heroin, and me somehow forcing you not to use heroin. I hope that's clear. It's the idea that it's your life to make mistakes with, and I've made my own share so I'm really not one to talk.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Oh I see. You mean tolerance as in merely accepting that certain things are legal, but at the same time sneering, criticising, and mocking people for being different to you.  

You are judging men who want a men's only club because you think they have no necessity for one. Would you also judge women who want a women's club? I don't know if you have a equivalent of the Women's Institute over there, but according to your logic, there's no real necessity for it.

There may be perfectly valid reasons why men are not comfortable in the company of women. They might not seem valid to you, but you're not in their shoes.

Yes, I will sneer and mock people who disagree with me, while retaining the right to eventually realize I wasn't the expert and that they had a point, because humility.

And, I don't doubt that there are men who have come up with reasons they don't want to be around women that I haven't thought of, because I actually tend to like women ...

In other words, you don't put yourself in their shoes. Maybe they went through a very bad divorce, maybe they're on their own and don't want to mix with male/female couples because they feel left out. There could be many reasons really.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Yes, I will sneer and mock people who disagree with me, while retaining the right to eventually realize I wasn't the expert and that they had a point, because humility.

And, I don't doubt that there are men who have come up with reasons they don't want to be around women that I haven't thought of, because I actually tend to like women ...

In other words, you don't put yourself in their shoes. Maybe they went through a very bad divorce, maybe they're on their own and don't want to mix with male/female couples because they feel left out. There could be many reasons really.

Where as some men certainly do face discrimination, this is far removed from where a homosexual is stereotyped and discriminated against by a group of bigoted people in society daily. The men here have only the issue of who treated them like shit, whereas homosexuals face bigoted people daily. I believe such men are not helping their situation being in only the company of men, as it would just continue to form a group of resentment towards women. When they should be looking to reconcile with women to find happiness again. Such a group would hinder these men from being happy, as they are not confronting their demons, so to speak. Where a homosexual only group actually brings a momentary sanctuary from discrimination, the single jilted men in the men club, do not face such discrimination in everyday walks of life. So while I would not disapprove of such a place for men, and can see some merits as a place to seek solace for their troubles, it would not help the overcome their issues in the long term.

The fact of the matter is that white men within the power structure made up their own private club at the expense of everyone else, including lower-class white men like myself, for a really nice long time. So fuck them.

And that said, I still still still support the right of anyone to form a private club for whatever reason they choose as long as the reason is not criminal.

Ben_Reilly wrote:The fact of the matter is that white men within the power structure made up their own private club at the expense of everyone else, including lower-class white men like myself, for a really nice long time. So fuck them.

Which is generally what happens with male private clubs but there should be more male support groups out there for the type of problems Rags did highlight. There is some, but not no where near enough that they are for women for example.

Belatucadros wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:The fact of the matter is that white men within the power structure made up their own private club at the expense of everyone else, including lower-class white men like myself, for a really nice long time. So fuck them.

Which is generally what happens with male private clubs but there should be more male support groups out there for the type of problems Rags did highlight. There is some, but not no where near enough that they are for women for example.

I think there probably are groups out there for divorcees, men who have had issues with relationships, etc. Maybe not enough, but I think to help people like that the group has to be a bit more specific than a men-only club.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


Which is generally what happens with male private clubs but there should be more male support groups out there for the type of problems Rags did highlight. There is some, but not no where near enough that they are for women for example.

I think there probably are groups out there for divorcees, men who have had issues with relationships, etc. Maybe not enough, but I think to help people like that the group has to be a bit more specific than a men-only club.

Totally agree and hence why I showed the clear differences between a male only club to a gay only club.

Belatucadros wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


Which is generally what happens with male private clubs but there should be more male support groups out there for the type of problems Rags did highlight. There is some, but not no where near enough that they are for women for example.

I think there probably are groups out there for divorcees, men who have had issues with relationships, etc. Maybe not enough, but I think to help people like that the group has to be a bit more specific than a men-only club.

Totally agree and hence why I showed the clear differences between a male only club to a gay only club.

It's like I said to Tommy, about how society doesn't exist in a vacuum. We'd all like to move to the point where there's no difference between these types of clubs, but history just hasn't gotten to that point yet. Someday we will be, when gay men, minorities, women, etc. have had a good long run making up the rich and powerful of our countries, but we're not close to that point yet.

Belatucadros wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:



Incorrect, it occurs because of those who suffer inequality as a minority, brought about by people like you, who will never treat them as equals. There lies the problem and it stems from people like you. No places would even need to exists, if it was not for people like you who do not except them as equals. If they actually had equality, they would not seek such safe zones, ones where they can actually have some normality and be treated as equals, where people like you deny them this in the world they live in daily.

That is what you fail to understand. Apply that to anyone who suffers daily discrimination for who they are, no matter even if a minority. Understand there are some who will always look at you and never accept you as equal, as that is what they suffer and seek somewhere that they are not looked upon as unequal.

Until people like you change from your ignorance, they will constantly need such places to escape the daily world of inequality they live in, that you and others have created a nightmare for them. All dues to your ignorance and bigotry.

I notice Tommy avoided responding to this because he cannot respond to the facts.

But people do have equality dodge... then demand to establish clubs and places that exclude others and don't treat them equal.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


I notice Tommy avoided responding to this because he cannot respond to the facts.

But people do have equality dodge... then demand to establish clubs and places that exclude others and don't treat them equal.

You still miss the point don't you?
Its because of you that such places exist and are needed as a sanctuary away from the daily discrimination faced from you and others that do not treat them as equals. You have never treated homosexuals as equals, you claim they are not normal, that is inequality. If your bigotry did not exist, they would have no need of such refugees away from hate.
So they are not treated as equals, you certainly do not treat them as equals.

How do I treat homosexuals unequal then dodge?


Have I ever prevented a homosexual from entering a club or refused service in a shop etc?


I don't see how anything is my fault...!?





I treat people the same and have no interest what their preferred sexual practices are.


Plus, how would I even know?


Do homosexuals walk around with a big 'I'm a gay' badge on or something...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:How do I treat homosexuals unequal then dodge? Have I ever prevented a homosexual from entering a club or refused service in a shop etc? I don't see how anything is my fault...!?
I treat people the same and have no interest what their preferred sexual practices are. Plus, how would I even know? Do homosexuals walk around with a big 'I'm a gay' badge on or something...!?

You again fail to see, that because some people are bigoted they do not treat homosexuals as equals. You confirm that with your stance everyday and its just a short step in real life that people do end up discriminating against them. People do suffer discrimination and from people just like you. I do not for one moment believe you treat others as equals, when you most certainly do not view them as equals, whether it be homosexuals, Blacks etc.

The most telling point of your answer was this:

Plus, how would I even know?

So you are saying you do not know any homosexuals then?
Which would explain why you have no understanding here. Most of all you actually failed to counter my actual points, as to why they need one, because are you going to tell me they do not face discrimination daily in society from bigots just like you? If they face discrimination, then clearly they face inequality.

You still haven't said how I treat people differently in everyday life dodge...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:You still haven't said how I treat people differently in everyday life dodge...!?

Before I go I will give you a very simple example of where you treat people different daily, namely Eilzel and David (when he is here), as you certainly have stated many times to homosexuality being abnormal and unnatural thus also stating that they are. Proving you certainly do not treat them as equals.
So as seen you cannot refute all my other points as well.

Laters

So still no examples of how I treat people differently in every day life...

You automatically treat gay and straight people different by talking about gay people as if we are only about sex, and not who we actually l

You automatically treat gay and straight people different by talking about gay people as if we are only about sex, and not who we actually love.

Waffle...

Eilzel wrote:You automatically treat gay and straight people different by talking about gay people as if we are only about sex, and not who we actually l

Hi Eilzel

There lies the problem, he does not even recognize that he does treat you unequally. He proves beyond any reasonable doubt that he does not comprehend or understand what equality is. He fails to see that he actually treats you on a par with criminals, hence why he wrongly believes that casting you as such, justifies discriminating against you. He knows that to treat you not as equal is wrong unless he things he can make just cause, he thus tries to invent criminality to being homosexual in his own mind, hence his bigotry. He has never treated you as an equal and sadly never will unless he opens his eyes to the fact he is driven by negative hate.
I would not worry mate, his views are a dying breed, as more and more children are growing up with a better understanding of people than he will ever begin to achieve in his life time and I mean the children who are as young as 5. Who would not discriminate against you. I mean can you imagine how easily it is for someone so young to have far more clarity and reason than a grown man such as Tommy? Like I said negative emotions are incapable of reason and hence why as Tommy is driven by negativity, he will always struggle with reason.

A person such as Tommy and others who think its an insult to call people gay or their sexual habits, just shows their true capacity to understand anything. They are slaves to their own emotions, notable to think for themselves and ever worse scared shitless they might actually be wrong, so they cloud their minds with negative emotions.

Catch you later

More waffle...

Tommy Monk wrote:More waffle...

Thank you for proving my point, as to most reasonable people my words would speak true, only someone so negative with hate would claim as you do that my words were waffle.

Cheers, I live in the hope you will one day actually open your eyes and see for the very first time properly life itself, because up until now, you have been been completely in the dark and still are.

All the best.

What a load of bollocks...


I asked you to show how I treat people differently in every day life and discriminate and all you have done is waffle bollocks!

More proof again, complete denial again.
Someone could seriously write a Musical about this.

Yeah... I bet you love musicals dodge...!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:Yeah... I bet you love musicals dodge...!!!

I do love musicals just like countless other heterosexuals and homosexuals. Do you not love them yourself Tommy?
Would loving a musical make you gay Tommy?

Are you a friend of Dorothy...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:Are you a friend of Dorothy...!?

Yes my God mother is called Dorothy, who is 83.
So Tommy does liking musicals make a person gay?
I think the forum is waiting for your answer here, where if you fail to we can all see how I am making you look so embarrassing at every reply you make.
So what have you got against musicals Tommy.
I bet you love fair lady?
And you have every boxset of Glee

So you are finally admitting that you are 'a friend of Dorothy' then dodge!!!???






I have never heard of 'fair lady' or 'glee'...

Tommy Monk wrote:So you are finally admitting that you are 'a friend of Dorothy' then dodge!!!???






I have never heard of 'fair lady' or 'glee'...

Yes why would I not be a friend of my Godmother?
Do you know what a Godmother is?
You have never heard of something you use to mock people with?
That is odd, how is that possible when claim never to hear of something so famous? 
Maybe it is you, who secretly have the platinum cop of Grease?

The fact you are trying to use gay stereotypes to attack didge shows your bigotry.

In other news, it looks like 60-70% of Ireland just voted to flick the bird at tommy's antiquated world view

Eilzel wrote:The fact you are trying to use gay stereotypes to attack didge shows your bigotry.

In other news, it looks like 60-70% of Ireland just voted to flick the bird at tommy's antiquated world view

The worst part is he thinks he is being clever and fails to see how very ignorant he is looking.

Fair play to my mums family, they all went out in support for the Yes vote.
Proud of them.

Tommy is a dying breed.

Amen to that.

No surprise there les... they have enough practice in vote rigging after the EU referendum stitch up...

Very good to hear that didge, good to see a place like Ireland come so far

Eilzel wrote:Very good to hear that didge, good to see a place like Ireland come so far

Indeed mate, very proud of them, they whipped up support in Ballybofey well into the majority.
have to laugh at Tommy, everywhere he turns his only alliance for his hate is Christian or Muslim extremism. How telling is that.

Laters mate

I don't hate homosexuals dodge...



Or treat them any differently to anyone else.

Tommy Monk wrote:I don't hate homosexuals dodge...



Or treat them any differently to anyone else.

But your words say otherwise, because you claim they are not normal. Only someone of hate would treat them as unnatural. So you do treat them different to everyone else and prove my point how you live in constant denial. You truly are completely blind it seems to your own hate.

Laters

It's not hate dodge, just honesty.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


I notice Tommy avoided responding to this because he cannot respond to the facts.

But people do have equality dodge... then demand to establish clubs and places that exclude others and don't treat them equal.

club 18-30

San Francisco’s Bohemian Club is a private gentleman’s club founded in 1872 originally for bohemian writers, artists, and musicians -- but membership expanded over the years to encompass figures such as Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon, as well as other more conservative leaders and prominent businessmen.


The Belizean Grove

This invite-only women’s club based in New York is thought of as the female answer to the Bohemian Club. Formed in 2001

The Yellowstone Club

In Big Sky, Mont., lies a 13,600-acre private ski and golf club

Bilderberg Group

Since 1954, Bilderberg has been an annual invite-only three-day conference of 120-150 leaders and figures from industry, finance, academia and the media

The China Entrepreneur Club gathers the country’s top 46 leaders of business

Augusta National Golf Club,
which opened in 1933, has had a reputation for extreme exclusivity. African-Americans were not permitted to join until 1990, and women were not allowed until 2012.


They are lots and lots of exclusive clubs so why not a gay clubs exclusively for LGBT people nobody's forcing you to join them personally i think they would be fun places
but then i don`t judge people on who they love or what consenting adults do

Tommy Monk wrote:How do I treat homosexuals unequal then dodge?


Have I ever prevented a homosexual from entering a club or refused service in a shop etc?


I don't see how anything is my fault...!?





I treat people the same and have no interest what their preferred sexual practices are.


Plus, how would I even know?


Do homosexuals walk around with a big 'I'm a gay' badge on or something...!?

funny you seem to go on about it a lot from what i have seen

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

In other words, you don't put yourself in their shoes. Maybe they went through a very bad divorce, maybe they're on their own and don't want to mix with male/female couples because they feel left out. There could be many reasons really.

Where as some men certainly do face discrimination, this is far removed from where a homosexual is stereotyped and discriminated against by a group of bigoted people in society daily. The men here have only the issue of who treated them like shit, whereas homosexuals face bigoted people daily. I believe such men are not helping their situation being in only the company of men, as it would just continue to form a group of resentment towards women. When they should be looking to reconcile with women to find happiness again. Such a group would hinder these men from being happy, as they are not confronting their demons, so to speak. Where a homosexual only group actually brings a momentary sanctuary from discrimination, the single jilted men in the men club, do not face such discrimination in everyday walks of life. So while I would not disapprove of such a place for men, and can see some merits as a place to seek solace for their troubles, it would not help the overcome their issues in the long term.

It's up to those men to decide how to help themselves - if they want help that is, and if they don't want to mix with women, that's entirely up to them. It's not for others to say how they should deal with their situation.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

Totally agree and hence why I showed the clear differences between a male only club to a gay only club.

It's like I said to Tommy, about how society doesn't exist in a vacuum. We'd all like to move to the point where there's no difference between these types of clubs, but history just hasn't gotten to that point yet. Someday we will be, when gay men, minorities, women, etc. have had a good long run making up the rich and powerful of our countries, but we're not close to that point yet.

Why do you lump everyone in a certain "group" together? There are loads of women who earn more than many men and are more "powerful". There are gay people who earn more than non-gay people, and are more "powerful".

Belatucadros wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


But people do have equality dodge... then demand to establish clubs and places that exclude others and don't treat them equal.

You still miss the point don't you?
Its because of you that such places exist and are needed as a sanctuary away from the daily discrimination faced from you and others that do not treat them as equals. You have never treated homosexuals as equals, you claim they are not normal, that is inequality. If your bigotry did not exist, they would have no need of such refugees away from hate.
So they are not treated as equals, you certainly do not treat them as equals.

Thinking that someone isn't normal isn't discrimination, and it's not the same as inequality. Some gay people might think that non-gay people are not normal.

Anyway, these gay clubs aren't about refuge IMO, they're mostly places to meet other gay people.

I think that there's an assumption on this thread that all gay people are nice, pleasant people who are picked on by dreadful, nasty non-gay people. I think it's quite clear that some gay people are very capable of being bigoted, intolerant, and fairly unpleasant - just like anyone can be. There was one such person on this very forum.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

Where as some men certainly do face discrimination, this is far removed from where a homosexual is stereotyped and discriminated against by a group of bigoted people in society daily. The men here have only the issue of who treated them like shit, whereas homosexuals face bigoted people daily. I believe such men are not helping their situation being in only the company of men, as it would just continue to form a group of resentment towards women. When they should be looking to reconcile with women to find happiness again. Such a group would hinder these men from being happy, as they are not confronting their demons, so to speak. Where a homosexual only group actually brings a momentary sanctuary from discrimination, the single jilted men in the men club, do not face such discrimination in everyday walks of life. So while I would not disapprove of such a place for men, and can see some merits as a place to seek solace for their troubles, it would not help the overcome their issues in the long term.

It's up to those men to decide how to help themselves - if they want help that is, and if they don't want to mix with women, that's entirely up to them. It's not for others to say how they should deal with their situation.

help ? it`s not a disease your ether gay or your not no amount of "help" is going to change that

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It's up to those men to decide how to help themselves - if they want help that is, and if they don't want to mix with women, that's entirely up to them. It's not for others to say how they should deal with their situation.

help ? it`s not a disease your ether gay or your not no amount of "help" is going to change that

Eh? I was referring to the men who might want to join a men's club because they went through a bad divorce or whatever, not gay men.