Five grounded girls are from same London school as 3 'Jihadi brides'

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:54 am

Judge reveals that five teenagers barred from travelling abroad were pupils at Bethnal Green Academy in Bethnal Green, east London.

Five teenage girls barred from travelling abroad by a judge after showing an interest in going to Syria are pupils at the same London school as three girls already thought to have fled there to join the Islamic State, the High Court has been told.

In mid-February police raised concerns following the disappearance of Kadiza Sultana, 16, Shamima Begum, 15, and Amira Abase, 15, from their homes in east London.

On March 20 Mr Justice Hayden barred five girls - three 16 and two 15 - from leaving the jurisdiction of England and Wales following a hearing in the Family Division of the High Court in London.

The judge had made an order saying the five girls could not be identified.

But on Friday he said it could be revealed that all eight teenagers were pupils at Bethnal Green Academy in Bethnal Green, east London.

He made a ruling allowing the school to be named at a follow-up hearing in the Family Division of the High Court in London - after an application from the Press Association news agency, which argued that revealing the link to the school would be in the public interest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11499833/Five-grounded-girls-are-from-same-London-school-as-3-Jihadi-brides.html

Should not this school be investigated being as they have failed to protect these girls from extremism?

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:58 am

Is it up to schools to protect anyone from extremism? I'm a bit tired of hearing about how it's everyone's fault, except that of the girls. They're not babies, and they have made their choice. If anyone has actively encouraged them, they should be arrested.

That bloke who blamed the police should be investigated after what has come to light about his own activities.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:01 am

Raggamuffin wrote:Is it up to schools to protect anyone from extremism? I'm a bit tired of hearing about how it's everyone's fault, except that of the girls. They're not babies, and they have made their choice. If anyone has actively encouraged them, they should be arrested.

That bloke who blamed the police should be investigated after what has come to light about his own activities.

Yes is part of the responsibility of schools to protect against extremist ideologies from anything like racism to religious extremism. The schools are very much responsible and hence why both the parents of these girls and the schools have failed to prevent the girls from extremism.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:03 am

Brasidas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Is it up to schools to protect anyone from extremism? I'm a bit tired of hearing about how it's everyone's fault, except that of the girls. They're not babies, and they have made their choice. If anyone has actively encouraged them, they should be arrested.

That bloke who blamed the police should be investigated after what has come to light about his own activities.

Yes is part of the responsibility of schools to protect against extremist ideologies from anything like racism to religious extremism. The schools are very much responsible and hence why both the parents of these girls and the schools have failed to prevent the girls from extremism.

You make it sound like these girls are victims. They want to join forces with murderers.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 am

Schools

We have a responsibility to protect children from extremist views
in schools. All schools in England, whether in the state or
independent sectors, including those with a faith ethos, must expect that they will be inspected and assessed on their
measures to protect their pupils from extremist material.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/263181/ETF_FINAL.pdf

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:07 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Yes is part of the responsibility of schools to protect against extremist ideologies from anything like racism to religious extremism. The schools are very much responsible and hence why both the parents of these girls and the schools have failed to prevent the girls from extremism.

You make it sound like these girls are victims. They want to join forces with murderers.

Well I cannot help you invent things in your own mind, you do that all by yourself, so please do not attempt poorly to twist and claim things I have never stated.
Thanks
Never claimed they had no blame in this either, but the fundamental fact is both their parents and the School failed here to protect them from extremism. One of the major points on tackling extremism is prevention and one of the best places to do this is in schools

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:08 am

Where's the evidence that these girls became extremists at school? They all have access to Facebook and the internet, and they probably have mates outside school too.

I want to know why they are being protected. They should be arrested for attempting to assist terrorists and murderers.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:10 am

Brasidas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You make it sound like these girls are victims. They want to join forces with murderers.

Well I cannot help you invent things in your own mind, you do that all by yourself, so please do not attempt poorly to twist and claim things I have never stated.
Thanks
Never claimed they had no blame in this either, but the fundamental fact is both their parents and the School failed here to protect them from extremism. One of the major points on tackling extremism is prevention and one of the best places to do this is in schools

So do you think they are "victims" or not? The fact that you blame the school suggests that you think they are. Feel free to reply without the usual childish insults.

In order to decide to join up with these murderers, the girls must have known all about what they do, so they made up their own minds. How do you propose that anyone could have changed their minds?

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:12 am

Raggamuffin wrote:Where's the evidence that these girls became extremists at school? They all have access to Facebook and the internet, and they probably have mates outside school too.

I want to know why they are being protected. They should be arrested for attempting to assist terrorists and murderers.

Still not grasping this are you?
The school has a duty to protect the girls from extremism, clearly they failed in their approach.
They can have access to many things all of which can have led to their extremism, but the school and parents have a responsibility here, especially being as it is the parents who own would allow access to the internet.
They are still children by law and what use it is to lock them up in jail where you now claim they have assisted terrorists? Where is the evidence on that?

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:13 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Well I cannot help you invent things in your own mind, you do that all by yourself, so please do not attempt poorly to twist and claim things I have never stated.
Thanks
Never claimed they had no blame in this either, but the fundamental fact is both their parents and the School failed here to protect them from extremism. One of the major points on tackling extremism is prevention and one of the best places to do this is in schools

So do you think they are "victims" or not? The fact that you blame the school suggests that you think they are. Feel free to reply without the usual childish insults.

In order to decide to join up with these murderers, the girls must have known all about what they do, so they made up their own minds. How do you propose that anyone could have changed their minds?

What has that got to do with the Schools having a responsibility?
Nothing, you either believe the schools have a responsibility or you do not.
I most certainly do.
Yes the girls are very much victims to extremism ideology.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:18 am

Brasidas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Where's the evidence that these girls became extremists at school? They all have access to Facebook and the internet, and they probably have mates outside school too.

I want to know why they are being protected. They should be arrested for attempting to assist terrorists and murderers.

Still not grasping this are you?
The school has a duty to protect the girls from extremism, clearly they failed in their approach.
They can have access to many things all of which can have led to their extremism, but the school and parents have a responsibility here, especially being as it is the parents who own would allow access to the internet.
They are still children by law and what use it is to lock them up in jail where you now claim they have assisted terrorists? Where is the evidence on that?

Well the school would first have to know about the extremism, so can you prove that the staff did know?

It is a criminal offence to support ISIS.

Like I said, I'm tired of hearing about who's to blame for all this. Cameron has said we all have a role to play in preventing this kind of thing. Well no, it's the duty of schoolgirls to not throw in their lot with terrorists and murderers. They are condoning and encouraging this evil, and I have no sympathy for them.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:21 am

Brasidas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

So do you think they are "victims" or not? The fact that you blame the school suggests that you think they are. Feel free to reply without the usual childish insults.

In order to decide to join up with these murderers, the girls must have known all about what they do, so they made up their own minds. How do you propose that anyone could have changed their minds?

What has that got to do with the Schools having a responsibility?
Nothing, you either believe the schools have a responsibility or you do not.
I most certainly do.
Yes the girls are very much victims to extremism ideology.

Well if they knew about it, they should perhaps have expelled the girls. Schools should not be encouraging extremism of course, and any pupil found to be doing so should be removed.

I do not see these girls as victims, so we are unlikely to agree on this issue.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:25 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Still not grasping this are you?
The school has a duty to protect the girls from extremism, clearly they failed in their approach.
They can have access to many things all of which can have led to their extremism, but the school and parents have a responsibility here, especially being as it is the parents who own would allow access to the internet.
They are still children by law and what use it is to lock them up in jail where you now claim they have assisted terrorists? Where is the evidence on that?

Well the school would first have to know about the extremism, so can you prove that the staff did know?

It is a criminal offence to support ISIS.

Like I said, I'm tired of hearing about who's to blame for all this. Cameron has said we all have a role to play in preventing this kind of thing. Well no, it's the duty of schoolgirls to not throw in their lot with terrorists and murderers. They are condoning and encouraging this evil, and I have no sympathy for them.

Well one thing we do know about schools is how many things do not stay secret for long by word of mouth and one thing is clear here being there is 5 of them, this no doubt was spoken about within the school itself. Clearly recruiting going on. I am not really concerned about what you are tired of because your views would make the situation worse if we did noting to protect children from extremism. Children are far more susceptible and vulnerable than adults. Hence why those targeted by extremist recruiters are those vulnerable, they play onto a rhetoric to where people who feel out of place in society can feel accepted.
The girls are part to blame here, again of which I have not denied, but an added share of blame must go to the schools and the parents for failing to protect the children from extremism.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:26 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

What has that got to do with the Schools having a responsibility?
Nothing, you either believe the schools have a responsibility or you do not.
I most certainly do.
Yes the girls are very much victims to extremism ideology.

Well if they knew about it, they should perhaps have expelled the girls. Schools should not be encouraging extremism of course, and any pupil found to be doing so should be removed.

I do not see these girls as victims, so we are unlikely to agree on this issue.

How is expelling them going to help prevent against extremism?
That is just moving the problem elsewhere.
The girls are part to blame for what has happened, but they are victims to extremist ideology.
Schools have a responsibility to protect against extremist ideology.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:32 am

Brasidas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well the school would first have to know about the extremism, so can you prove that the staff did know?

It is a criminal offence to support ISIS.

Like I said, I'm tired of hearing about who's to blame for all this. Cameron has said we all have a role to play in preventing this kind of thing. Well no, it's the duty of schoolgirls to not throw in their lot with terrorists and murderers. They are condoning and encouraging this evil, and I have no sympathy for them.

Well one thing we do know about schools is how many things do not stay secret for long by word of mouth and one thing is clear here being there is 5 of them, this no doubt was spoken about within the school itself. Clearly recruiting going on. I am not really concerned about what you are tired of because your views would make the situation worse if we did noting to protect children from extremism. Children are far more susceptible and vulnerable than adults. Hence why those targeted by extremist recruiters are those vulnerable, they play onto a rhetoric to where people who feel out of place in society can feel accepted.
The girls are part to blame here, again of which I have not denied, but an added share of blame must go to the schools and the parents for failing to protect the children from extremism.

The age of criminal responsibility in this country is ten, and these girls are way past that age, so they are responsible for themselves when it comes to the law. Those who see them as "victims" are enablers IMO.

I've already said that anyone encouraging this kind of thing should be arrested, and certainly the school should be investigated, as should the parents of these girls - rather than being apologised to.

Let's just say that others are responsible for "protecting" these girls. How do you propose they do that?

Do you also think that Michael Adeboloja was a "victim" of "extremist grooming"? He apparently started having these ideas when he was young.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:34 am

Brasidas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well if they knew about it, they should perhaps have expelled the girls. Schools should not be encouraging extremism of course, and any pupil found to be doing so should be removed.

I do not see these girls as victims, so we are unlikely to agree on this issue.

How is expelling them going to help prevent against extremism?
That is just moving the problem elsewhere.
The girls are part to blame for what has happened, but they are victims to extremist ideology.
Schools have a responsibility to protect against extremist ideology.

Well by your own logic, it would prevent them from spreading their own extremism around.

They should be investigated and arrested if it is found that they have supported ISIS in any way.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:40 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Well one thing we do know about schools is how many things do not stay secret for long by word of mouth and one thing is clear here being there is 5 of them, this no doubt was spoken about within the school itself. Clearly recruiting going on. I am not really concerned about what you are tired of because your views would make the situation worse if we did noting to protect children from extremism. Children are far more susceptible and vulnerable than adults. Hence why those targeted by extremist recruiters are those vulnerable, they play onto a rhetoric to where people who feel out of place in society can feel accepted.
The girls are part to blame here, again of which I have not denied, but an added share of blame must go to the schools and the parents for failing to protect the children from extremism.

The age of criminal responsibility in this country is ten, and these girls are way past that age, so they are responsible for themselves when it comes to the law. Those who see them as "victims" are enablers IMO.

I've already said that anyone encouraging this kind of thing should be arrested, and certainly the school should be investigated, as should the parents of these girls - rather than being apologised to.

Let's just say that others are responsible for "protecting" these girls. How do you propose they do that?

Do you also think that Michael Adeboloja was a "victim" of "extremist grooming"? He apparently started having these ideas when he was young.

Your perception of criminal responsibility is very poor, where again as children it is taken into account that they are minors, so I suggest you actually look into further what you just miserably failed at doing so.
To next ask me what to do to prevents this?
You counter extremist views to show why they are wrong, you also help vulnerable children, who do not fitinto society. You find the reasons that this is happening. There are so many counter measures here that can be used but the most important people here who could of done something to help prevent this extremism, was the parents and the schools themselves. What is even more worrying here is that if this is clearly being talked by girls at this school, that other girls would have been approached. They either spoke to teachers about this and the teachers did nothing or the other girls approached did not speak out and thus the school is failing further by not speaking of the dangers of extremism, because one of the fundamental aspects in this is about making sure people are not afraid to come forward.
So on many factors here the school clearly has failed at prevention.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:42 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

How is expelling them going to help prevent against extremism?
That is just moving the problem elsewhere.
The girls are part to blame for what has happened, but they are victims to extremist ideology.
Schools have a responsibility to protect against extremist ideology.

Well by your own logic, it would prevent them from spreading their own extremism around.

They should be investigated and arrested if it is found that they have supported ISIS in any way.

Eh? What logic, it seems you failed to even understand what logic is especially on your next point.
So you are saying supporting views is now a crime, really?
Guess we are going to have arrest countless people based on your illogical principle.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:47 am

Brasidas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

The age of criminal responsibility in this country is ten, and these girls are way past that age, so they are responsible for themselves when it comes to the law. Those who see them as "victims" are enablers IMO.

I've already said that anyone encouraging this kind of thing should be arrested, and certainly the school should be investigated, as should the parents of these girls - rather than being apologised to.

Let's just say that others are responsible for "protecting" these girls. How do you propose they do that?

Do you also think that Michael Adeboloja was a "victim" of "extremist grooming"? He apparently started having these ideas when he was young.

Your perception of criminal responsibility is very poor, where again as children it is taken into account that they are minors, so I suggest you actually look into further what you just miserably failed at doing so.
To next ask me what to do to prevents this?
You counter extremist views to show why they are wrong, you also help vulnerable children, who do not fitinto society. You find the reasons that this is happening. There are so many counter measures here that can be used but the most important people here who could of done something to help prevent this extremism, was the parents and the schools themselves. What is even more worrying here is that if this is clearly being talked by girls at this school, that other girls would have been approached. They either spoke to teachers about this and the teachers did nothing or the other girls approached did not speak out and thus the school is failing further by not speaking of the dangers of extremism, because one of the fundamental aspects in this is about making sure people are not afraid to come forward.
So on many factors here the school clearly has failed at prevention.

So you think that anyone under 18 is not criminally responsible? Perhaps you think that the murderers of Jamie Bulger should have been let off then. It is a crime to support ISIS in this country, and they are clearly supporting them.

Teachers don't necessarily know what girls are talking about in school, or outside school. Sure, there should be an investigation, but I don't think you can conclude that they failed to stop this extremism just yet.

I'm not sure that telling these girls that they should fit in would work. I suspect that they don't want to fit in with society anyway. I suppose they could show them the videos of people being beheaded in order to convince them that being a Jihadi bride is not a good idea, but I doubt anyone is going to do that!

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:51 am

Brasidas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well by your own logic, it would prevent them from spreading their own extremism around.

They should be investigated and arrested if it is found that they have supported ISIS in any way.

Eh? What logic, it seems you failed to even understand what logic is especially on your next point.
So you are saying supporting views is now a crime, really?
Guess we are going to have arrest countless people based on your illogical principle.

Well you think that people can be influenced by extremists, yes? Therefore, you must think that preventing these schoolgirls from telling anyone else that being a Jihadi bride is a good thing is a good idea. Surely the best place to start is to expel them from school.

Associating with ISIS is a crime, or will be - I'm not sure if it's actual law yet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27865849

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:54 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Your perception of criminal responsibility is very poor, where again as children it is taken into account that they are minors, so I suggest you actually look into further what you just miserably failed at doing so.
To next ask me what to do to prevents this?
You counter extremist views to show why they are wrong, you also help vulnerable children, who do not fitinto society. You find the reasons that this is happening. There are so many counter measures here that can be used but the most important people here who could of done something to help prevent this extremism, was the parents and the schools themselves. What is even more worrying here is that if this is clearly being talked by girls at this school, that other girls would have been approached. They either spoke to teachers about this and the teachers did nothing or the other girls approached did not speak out and thus the school is failing further by not speaking of the dangers of extremism, because one of the fundamental aspects in this is about making sure people are not afraid to come forward.
So on many factors here the school clearly has failed at prevention.

So you think that anyone under 18 is not criminally responsible?
Never claimed any such thing, which proves further again how little you understand about criminal responsibility
Perhaps you think that the murderers of Jamie Bulger should have been let off then. It is a crime to support ISIS in this country, and they are clearly supporting them.
I love how people get emotional over things to the point they again cannot understand criminal law.
Never claimed they should be let off, they did happen to murder someone, but how they were dealt with was wrong, other countries deal far better with minors on crime, we are poor at this

Teachers don't necessarily know what girls are talking about in school, or outside school. Sure, there should be an investigation, but I don't think you can conclude that they failed to stop this extremism just yet.
If 5 girls at the school all fell prey to this ideology, then yes the school has failed to prevent extremism in their school

I'm not sure that telling these girls that they should fit in would sork. I suspect that they don't want to fit in with society anyway. I suppose they could show them the videos of people being beheaded in order to convince them that being a Jihadi bride is not a good idea, but I doubt anyone is going to do that!

You really fail to grasp many things in life where being a minority as Muslims are and they have in many cases different cultures, it can be difficult to fit into society, which makes them very vulnerable.
I am sure it was seeing glorified beheading's that are normalized by ISIS that helped recruit them, being as they justify such actions. What you need to tackle is around how such views are ethically and morally wrong

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:56 am

Bras, I will not respond to posts within a post - just so you know. Please post a normal reply.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:56 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Eh? What logic, it seems you failed to even understand what logic is especially on your next point.
So you are saying supporting views is now a crime, really?
Guess we are going to have arrest countless people based on your illogical principle.

Well you think that people can be influenced by extremists, yes? Therefore, you must think that preventing these schoolgirls from telling anyone else that being a Jihadi bride is a good thing is a good idea. Surely the best place to start is to expel them from school.

Associating with ISIS is a crime, or will be - I'm not sure if it's actual law yet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27865849

How is expelling them a good idea?
Again all that does is then spread the problem, because now they will attend another school taking with them their beliefs. You have thus helped ensure the spread of extremism and not tackled the extremism.
itself. Having supportive views is not a crime and never will be and you are not understanding your own link, as holding views is not a crime.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:58 am

Raggamuffin wrote:Bras, I will not respond to posts within a post - just so you know. Please post a normal reply.

That is a normal reply which many posters use on this forum.
When I receive them, it does not stop me from replying, you yourself choose to reply or not, is up to you

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:03 am

Brasidas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well you think that people can be influenced by extremists, yes? Therefore, you must think that preventing these schoolgirls from telling anyone else that being a Jihadi bride is a good thing is a good idea. Surely the best place to start is to expel them from school.

Associating with ISIS is a crime, or will be - I'm not sure if it's actual law yet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27865849

How is expelling them a good idea?
Again all that does is then spread the problem, because now they will attend another school taking with them their beliefs. You have thus helped ensure the spread of extremism and not tackled the extremism.
itself. Having supportive views is not a crime and never will be and you are not understanding your own link, as holding views is not a crime.

Well if it's clear that they were expelled for extremism, the new school should be told about that, so they can keep an eye on them.

They were going to do more than hold views weren't they? They haven't broken the law yet because they've been prevented from doing so. However, they should still be investigated in case they've done anything else to support ISIS.

There's going to be a specific law to prevent people from leaving the UK to join ISIS. I just hope that when it's law, anyone attempting to break it will be prosecuted, and not treated like a "victim", and yes, that includes teenage girls.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/new-laws-to-stop-jihadists-and-jihadi-brides-leaving-uk-rushed-through-house-10099192.html

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:04 am

Brasidas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Bras, I will not respond to posts within a post - just so you know. Please post a normal reply.

That is a normal reply which many posters use on this forum.
When I receive them, it does not stop me from replying, you yourself choose to reply or not, is up to you

I don't like it because it makes it complicated to reply. If others are fine with it, that's up to them, I'm just asking you not to reply in that manner to me if you want a reply.

Nothing personal - I've said it to someone else before too.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:09 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

How is expelling them a good idea?
Again all that does is then spread the problem, because now they will attend another school taking with them their beliefs. You have thus helped ensure the spread of extremism and not tackled the extremism.
itself. Having supportive views is not a crime and never will be and you are not understanding your own link, as holding views is not a crime.

Well if it's clear that they were expelled for extremism, the new school should be told about that, so they can keep an eye on them.

They were going to do more than hold views weren't they? They haven't broken the law yet because they've been prevented from doing so. However, they should still be investigated in case they've done anything else to support ISIS.

There's going to be a specific law to prevent people from leaving the UK to join ISIS. I just hope that when it's law, anyone attempting to break it will be prosecuted, and not treated like a "victim", and yes, that includes teenage girls.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/new-laws-to-stop-jihadists-and-jihadi-brides-leaving-uk-rushed-through-house-10099192.html

The law will do very little to prevent this from happening and hence why again prevention is going to be the best means of dealing with this problem in the first place. Again having supportive views is not a crime, as again you open the door to that view then any number of subjects is open to subjective criminalization of views. Again when a school expels a child, they are just basically pushing the problem elsewhere and not tackling the problems. Again a child should not be expelled for holding views, but if they are spreading extremism the matter should become a school priority to deal with, inviting in all parents and students to tackle a growing problem. Again prevention and countering such extremism is the key here.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:14 am

Brasidas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well if it's clear that they were expelled for extremism, the new school should be told about that, so they can keep an eye on them.

They were going to do more than hold views weren't they? They haven't broken the law yet because they've been prevented from doing so. However, they should still be investigated in case they've done anything else to support ISIS.

There's going to be a specific law to prevent people from leaving the UK to join ISIS. I just hope that when it's law, anyone attempting to break it will be prosecuted, and not treated like a "victim", and yes, that includes teenage girls.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/new-laws-to-stop-jihadists-and-jihadi-brides-leaving-uk-rushed-through-house-10099192.html

The law will do very little to prevent this from happening and hence why again prevention is going to be the best means of dealing with this problem in the first place. Again having supportive views is not a crime, as again you open the door to that view then any number of subjects is open to subjective criminalization of views. Again when a school expels a child, they are just basically pushing the problem elsewhere and not tackling the problems. Again a child should not be expelled for holding views, but if they are spreading extremism the matter should become a school priority to deal with, inviting in all parents and students to tackle a growing problem. Again prevention and countering such extremism is the key here.

It's been established that these girls intended to do more than hold supportive views, otherwise why are they subject to a court order to prevent them leaving the country?

You seem to be holding the school responsible for the view of these girls, so you must think that there has been some wrongdoing somewhere.

If schools are held responsible for what their pupils do, or for the views they hold, they're going to just get rid of the problem by removing pupils. Once again, where is the evidence that this school knew of the girls' views or intentions?

Re this business of inviting parents to help, it seems that some of them will blame anyone but themselves too.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:23 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

The law will do very little to prevent this from happening and hence why again prevention is going to be the best means of dealing with this problem in the first place. Again having supportive views is not a crime, as again you open the door to that view then any number of subjects is open to subjective criminalization of views. Again when a school expels a child, they are just basically pushing the problem elsewhere and not tackling the problems. Again a child should not be expelled for holding views, but if they are spreading extremism the matter should become a school priority to deal with, inviting in all parents and students to tackle a growing problem. Again prevention and countering such extremism is the key here.

It's been established that these girls intended to do more than hold supportive views, otherwise why are they subject to a court order to prevent them leaving the country?

You seem to be holding the school responsible for the view of these girls, so you must think that there has been some wrongdoing somewhere.

If schools are held responsible for what their pupils do, or for the views they hold, they're going to just get rid of the problem by removing pupils. Once again, where is the evidence that this school knew of the girls' views or intentions?

Re this business of inviting parents to help, it seems that some of them will blame anyone but themselves too.

Intended to do so something is subjective, as we have no idea that when faced with the reality of being there with ISIS like with others they were then not horrified, hence why taking such a view of intended should be done with much caution. Again schools will end up being closed down as inadequate for failing pupils if they did that because schools have a responsibility for helping prepare children for adult life. Thus a School has to take responsibility for what occurs and goes in within its grounds. Again pushing away the problem is a flawed process which never tackles the issue or problem. I am sure some parents will blame anyone, hence why they need to be brought in to see how they have as much responsibility from helping prevent such eventualities and problems. Whether the school did know or did not know either way the school has failed preventing extremism. Can you not see that, 5 girls from the same school all attempting to leave and join ISIS? Clearly the school is not getting a strong message across against extremism are they? Second if the school is unaware and clearly other pupils are aware being as 5 have been recruited where it is clear then others would have been approached, then again the school is failing the children on prevention, because there is not a view to help children come forward on this. So there is just two examples of the school failing here even if they were unaware of the problem.
Can you not even see that?

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:30 am

Anyway, this was interesting to debate, so thanks, but have to go out.
Catch you later

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:32 am

Brasidas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It's been established that these girls intended to do more than hold supportive views, otherwise why are they subject to a court order to prevent them leaving the country?

You seem to be holding the school responsible for the view of these girls, so you must think that there has been some wrongdoing somewhere.

If schools are held responsible for what their pupils do, or for the views they hold, they're going to just get rid of the problem by removing pupils. Once again, where is the evidence that this school knew of the girls' views or intentions?

Re this business of inviting parents to help, it seems that some of them will blame anyone but themselves too.

Intended to do so something is subjective, as we have no idea that when faced with the reality of being there with ISIS like with others they were then not horrified, hence why taking such a view of intended should be done with much caution. Again schools will end up being closed down as inadequate for failing pupils if they did that because schools have a responsibility for helping prepare children for adult life. Thus a School has to take responsibility for what occurs and goes in within its grounds. Again pushing away the problem is a flawed process which never tackles the issue or problem. I am sure some parents will blame anyone, hence why they need to be brought in to see how they have as much responsibility from helping prevent such eventualities and problems. Whether the school did know or did not know either way the school has failed preventing extremism. Can you not see that, 5 girls from the same school all attempting to leave and join ISIS? Clearly the school is not getting a strong message across against extremism are they? Second if the school is unaware and clearly other pupils are aware being as 5 have been recruited where it is clear then others would have been approached, then again the school is failing the children on prevention. So there is just two examples of the school failing here even if they were unaware of the problem.
Can you not even see that?

How do you know that any "brainwashing" took place at the school though? You can't blame a school for failing to prevent something if they didn't know about it, but you appear to be doing just that. Are you suggesting that all schools should include some kind of anti-extremism education programme, regardless of whether or not there are any signs of extremism?

I would be cautious about expecting schools to prevent extremism which was nurtured outside of the school. I would have thought that the best place to look for that kind of thing is on Facebook or other social media, assuming that the girls had access to the internet. Nobody seems to have investigated these girls or their families, or have I missed that?

If a school is closed down, how is that helping? As you pointed out, the pupils will just end up at another school.

Let's just say that all this was happening at school. If so, it was during breaks, so do you think pupils should be supervised during breaks?

Schools never used to be responsible for preparing young people for adult life - that was the responsibility of parents. Perhaps it's all changed now.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:33 am

Brasidas wrote:Anyway, this was interesting to debate, so thanks, but have to go out.
Catch you later

OK.

Five grounded girls are from same London school as 3 'Jihadi brides' 1716015268

There's no waving smiley, so that was the best I could do. Laughing

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:30 am

Sorry Rags we know very well this was talked at school, because 3 of the girls were friends from the school that went together, so there is no doubt in my mind that they spoke of this at school and being the fact there is a further 2 leads to further evidence the school is very much a connection in this. To deny there is a connection is missing the point as to how 5 girls from the same school or were indoctrinated to join ISIS and from what I understand bright girls at that. If 5 girls from the same school have been indoctrinated, then the school has made a clearly failing in prevention, because of the very fact 5 girls have been indoctrinated to join.

No I am not saying during breaks they should be followed but to have seminars on extremism, which again includes the parents, because they are also fundamental in helping prevent extremism from within their homes via access to such sites on the web. What ever way you look at this, the school has failed to protect the children from extremism and in my view an investigation would no doubt bring forth the evidence they did know but feared to do anything in case their school came under the spotlight as other schools have done. That is a hypothesis but one that holds a reasonable explanation to the failings of this school, where to me they failed to actin case their school was placed onto measures.
Yes I do believe after exhausting all avenues that a school should close down if it continues to fail the children. The children are being constantly failed by the school and thus should be given a far better educational needs they deserve. In this case it is not pushing the problem away, because the school is the actual problem.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:50 am

I will add another reason to my belief this would have been know by other children within this school. One thing you will find in many schools where there is strong political and religious beliefs is how they end up being talked about just as we do off events happening within the world. In fact I would find it very hard to believe that even the teachers were not aware of the girls ultra conservative Islamic views, because people who are fundamental in their beliefs are very much opinionated about expressing and defending their ideals. So to me clearly other pupils even more so Muslim pupils no doubt through dialogue over views within Islam itself must have known of their views points. Which may have not directly linked or proved they were supporters of ISIS but in that they did hold very much radical Islamic views. Where the school is then failing the pupils is that it is not helping pupils to come forward to speak of concerns of fellow pupils, who hold such ultra conservative views and even more so of where it can lead to. Whether it is in the work place or school, there is policies to help people come forward not with a view to get people into trouble, which is why people do not like to come forward, but with a view that by coming forward they are helping those students. With a view to coming forward to help students that are feared to being indoctrinated, you are taking measures to help prevent extremism, because once vies are know, the school and parents involved can help understand why they have been drawn to such views and to help show why such views are wrong and look into if there are other reasons which are affecting their life which may have been motivating factors as to why they were drawn in the first place.

So to me to claim that the school or at least some pupils did not know they held extreme views is very shortsighted, because within schools especially by their age, people are very vocal in defending political, religious views etc.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:11 pm

Brasidas wrote:Sorry Rags we know very well this was talked at school, because 3 of the girls were friends from the school that went together, so there is no doubt in my mind that they spoke of this at school and being the fact there is a further 2 leads to further evidence the school is very much a connection in this. To deny there is a connection is missing the point as to how 5 girls from the same school or were indoctrinated to join ISIS and from what I understand bright girls at that. If 5 girls from the same school have been indoctrinated, then the school has made a clearly failing in prevention, because of the very fact 5 girls have been indoctrinated to join.

No I am not saying during breaks they should be followed but to have seminars on extremism, which again includes the parents, because they are also fundamental in helping prevent extremism from within their homes via access to such sites on the web. What ever way you look at this, the school has failed to protect the children from extremism and in my view an investigation would no doubt bring forth the evidence they did know but feared to do anything in case their school came under the spotlight as other schools have done. That is a hypothesis but one that holds a reasonable explanation to the failings of this school, where to me they failed to actin case their school was placed onto measures.
Yes I do believe after exhausting all avenues that a school should close down if it continues to fail the children. The children are being constantly failed by the school and thus should be given a far better educational needs they deserve. In this case it is not pushing the problem away, because the school is the actual problem.

The girls could well have been friends outside of school as well, and they're more likely to have talked about it then, or via the internet.

What I can't stomach is the way the police are viewing the girls who disappeared as "victims", and the way they apologised to their families. The police had given these three girls letters about one of their friends going to Syria, so that didn't stop them anyway. In fact, the solicitor for the families say it might have spurred them on!

At least one of the parents of the missing girls has been exposed as attending extremist rallies himself, so why is he not being investigated? There's not much point advising a parent if they're as bad themselves.

I don't see this as failing children, I see this as some horrible little cows going off to actually support murderers and terrorists. They should be arrested if they ever set foot in this country again. My sympathies lie entirely with the victims who were murdered by these ISIS monsters. If you constantly treat such teenagers as "victims", it's giving them the message that nothing is ever their fault.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:29 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Brasidas wrote:Sorry Rags we know very well this was talked at school, because 3 of the girls were friends from the school that went together, so there is no doubt in my mind that they spoke of this at school and being the fact there is a further 2 leads to further evidence the school is very much a connection in this. To deny there is a connection is missing the point as to how 5 girls from the same school or were indoctrinated to join ISIS and from what I understand bright girls at that. If 5 girls from the same school have been indoctrinated, then the school has made a clearly failing in prevention, because of the very fact 5 girls have been indoctrinated to join.

No I am not saying during breaks they should be followed but to have seminars on extremism, which again includes the parents, because they are also fundamental in helping prevent extremism from within their homes via access to such sites on the web. What ever way you look at this, the school has failed to protect the children from extremism and in my view an investigation would no doubt bring forth the evidence they did know but feared to do anything in case their school came under the spotlight as other schools have done. That is a hypothesis but one that holds a reasonable explanation to the failings of this school, where to me they failed to actin case their school was placed onto measures.
Yes I do believe after exhausting all avenues that a school should close down if it continues to fail the children. The children are being constantly failed by the school and thus should be given a far better educational needs they deserve. In this case it is not pushing the problem away, because the school is the actual problem.

The girls could well have been friends outside of school as well, and they're more likely to have talked about it then, or via the internet.

What I can't stomach is the way the police are viewing the girls who disappeared as "victims", and the way they apologised to their families. The police had given these three girls letters about one of their friends going to Syria, so that didn't stop them anyway. In fact, the solicitor for the families say it might have spurred them on!

At least one of the parents of the missing girls has been exposed as attending extremist rallies himself, so why is he not being investigated? There's not much point advising a parent if they're as bad themselves.

I don't see this as failing children, I see this as some horrible little cows going off to actually support murderers and terrorists. They should be arrested if they ever set foot in this country again. My sympathies lie entirely with the victims who were murdered by these ISIS monsters. If you constantly treat such teenagers as "victims", it's giving them the message that nothing is ever their fault.

It does not matter if they were friends outside school Rags, because we know they are 3 friends going to the same school with the same ideological beliefs, with again a view that they would not openly defend extreme views in Islam, shows how people then fail to understand radical beliefs itself. I am sure they would have been very vocal on their views, maybe not to the extend of openly supporting ISIS but certainly backing ideological view points found with their belief which is no doubt Wahhabism.
The police do share some blame here because they were viewing their comments on twitter, which is further proof going back to my point on how open they were in their views. The Police could have brought this to the schools attention, if of course the school was not aware already and worked closer together with the school and the parents involved, which they should have been informed also. I do not buy also where the parents were not aware of their daughters views, being as this age again they would surely have been vocal on beliefs in Islam to their parents. Or even more to the point the parents actually shared some of the ideological beliefs themselves but did not share the ultra extremist views of ISIS. So the parents bare much of the responsibility more than any here and to me are being let off the hook here by the media. As you elude to one of the parents is known to to have extremist views, so to me I have no doubt all the parents were aware or hold and have raised them up on ultra conservative Islamic views.

The point is if these girls have been indoctrinated by also their parents and been raised having to attend religious teachings by imams of Wahhabism, it is only one small step from the ideological views from within Wahhabism to then viewing the beliefs of ISIS as the correct views of Islam to them. If the parents held Wahhabist beliefs, they were to me very instrumental in creating the means and leading the girls into the direction of backing ISIS. So I agree with some of your views, but where children are indoctrinated with a belief system, which within Wahhabism, it is very much intolerant of any other Islam views plus non-Islamic views than the ones it presents. Then the children will be victims to indoctrination. Hence why the parents share responsibility and why I have consistently called for Wahhabism to be banned or viewed as an extremist ideology in this country. The vast majority of Islamic extremist terrorist groups follow wahhabism, ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Boko Haram, the Taliban etc, which further proves how dangerous this ideology is. This ideology should have no place in Mosques or schools and for too many years Saudi has been pumping money into exporting this ideology into our country. So to me, the Police, the school and most of all the parents bare responsibilities here. The 3 girls are not without fault, but I find it difficult to view them as you do, if they have been raised by their parents with an extremist ideology. If the parents did not raise them in this extremist ideology of Wahhabism, then they certainly failed to see the signs of their daughters following this ideology, as again I am sure the girls would have been as opinionated as they were on twitter to their own parents on views in Islam.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:44 pm

There is no evidence that the girls were "radicalised" at the Bethnal Green Academy. However, if the proposal is to have an education programme to prevent such radicalisation before it has taken place, what form should it take?

A letter from the police did not stop these girls, so I doubt very much that a teacher saying it's a bad idea to be a jihadi bride would make much difference. I guess the only thing that might make a difference is to tell these young people that they might be killed, raped, or mistreated if they go out there, and showing them videos of people being murdered. Who in their right mind would agree to that though?

It could be said that drawing attention to extremism might actually have the opposite effect to that which is intended. A lot of young people automatically do the opposite of what a teacher advises.

by Fuzzy Zack Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:44 pm

The school has been rated as "Outstanding" by Ofsted.

So blaming the school is stupid and the actions of someone irrationally fearful.

It may be hard to believe but kids these days know how to get around teachers, policies and procedures. (Sarcasm Alert!) - D'UH!

by Fuzzy Zack Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:46 pm

There are no reports of hate preachers or extremist forums in this school. So it seems the school did follow policy and procedure.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:51 pm

I'm just fed up of hearing about how these girls need protecting from themselves. They're actually supporting and encouraging murderers and terrorists! If they go out there, at least they're not here growing up to be terrorist supporters.

There's not a lot this country can do about the carnage in the Middle East. It could be said that the invasion of Iraq helped to create the situation, but it's a bit late to worry about that now. All we can do is try to stop terrorism here, and we won't do that by treating extremists and would-be terrorists as victims.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:51 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:There is no evidence that the girls were "radicalised" at the Bethnal Green Academy. However, if the proposal is to have an education programme to prevent such radicalisation before it has taken place, what form should it take?

A letter from the police did not stop these girls, so I doubt very much that a teacher saying it's a bad idea to be a jihadi bride would make much difference. I guess the only thing that might make a difference is to tell these young people that they might be killed, raped, or mistreated if they go out there, and showing them videos of people being murdered. Who in their right mind would agree to that though?

It could be said that drawing attention to extremism might actually have the opposite effect to that which is intended. A lot of young people automatically do the opposite of what a teacher advises.

I never claimed they were radicalized at the school itself and this is not what I am eluding to when I speak of the school failing here. The view here is to very much counter such views and to reason as to why such views are wrong. To simple allow them to go unchallenged is conceding to defeat to bad ideas and even worse makes those who hold such views acceptable within our society. So drawing attention to extremism is very much vital in the problem of combating such extremist views. The schools would be very much failing if they are not able to promote a view of the well being and equality of others should supersede any bad and intolerant ideals. So if the school knows they have some students holding such radical views, then every attention should be given tot he issue to readdress the problem itself, otherwise again you are conceding to extremist beliefs and allowing them to be again acceptable. Sorry Rgas your view is a negative approach here, where every effort should be placed into changing extremist views, and you do that by proving how bad those ideas are and even more so based around the view point on the well being and equality of others, which is very much enshrined in the Culture of our country. Even more so allowing it to go unchecked with further divide society.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:54 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
The school has been rated as "Outstanding" by Ofsted.

So blaming the school is stupid and the actions of someone irrationally fearful.

It may be hard to believe but kids these days know how to get around teachers, policies and procedures. (Sarcasm Alert!) - D'UH!

Well that is very short sighted, when the girls were very vocal on twitter, to the point you are now claiming others do not view twitter or they would not have been as open as they were on the social media?
Please that is so naive Zack.
The school had 5 girls with these beliefs and you are claiming the school was not aware or at least the pupils. Of which the later shows the school is failing to provide a view for pupils to come forward, which is another failing

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:55 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:There is no evidence that the girls were "radicalised" at the Bethnal Green Academy. However, if the proposal is to have an education programme to prevent such radicalisation before it has taken place, what form should it take?

A letter from the police did not stop these girls, so I doubt very much that a teacher saying it's a bad idea to be a jihadi bride would make much difference. I guess the only thing that might make a difference is to tell these young people that they might be killed, raped, or mistreated if they go out there, and showing them videos of people being murdered. Who in their right mind would agree to that though?

It could be said that drawing attention to extremism might actually have the opposite effect to that which is intended. A lot of young people automatically do the opposite of what a teacher advises.

I never claimed they were radicalized at the school itself and this is not what I am eluding to when I speak of the school failing here. The view here is to very much counter such views and to reason as to why such views are wrong. To simple allow them to go unchallenged is conceding to defeat to bad ideas and even worse makes those who hold such views acceptable within our society. So drawing attention to extremism is very much vital in the problem of combating such extremist views. The schools would be very much failing if they are not able to promote a view of the well being and equality of others should supersede any bad and intolerant ideals. So if the school knows they have some students holding such radical views, then every attention should be given tot he issue to readdress the problem itself, otherwise again you are conceding to extremist beliefs and allowing them to be again acceptable. Sorry Rgas your view is a negative approach here, where every effort should be placed into changing extremist views, and you do that by proving how bad those ideas are and even more so based around the view point on the well being and equality of others, which is very much enshrined in the Culture of our country. Even more so allowing it to go unchecked with further divide society.

I think you pretty much said that they were probably radicalised at the school. However, let's not dwell on that.

So how do you propose that prevention of radicalisation happens in general? Perhaps some specifics could be discussed.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:56 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:There are no reports of hate preachers or extremist forums in this school. So it seems the school did follow policy and procedure.

Nobody is claiming there was, what is being claimed here is the school failing at prevention to extremism, where clearly the methods used to teach against extremism have clearly failed with 5 of the pupils have they not?
It has also clearly failed with other pupils to come forward with concerns over pupils holding extreme views.
I bet if this school was investigated on this, they would lose their outstanding classification.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:58 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

I never claimed they were radicalized at the school itself and this is not what I am eluding to when I speak of the school failing here. The view here is to very much counter such views and to reason as to why such views are wrong. To simple allow them to go unchallenged is conceding to defeat to bad ideas and even worse makes those who hold such views acceptable within our society. So drawing attention to extremism is very much vital in the problem of combating such extremist views. The schools would be very much failing if they are not able to promote a view of the well being and equality of others should supersede any bad and intolerant ideals. So if the school knows they have some students holding such radical views, then every attention should be given tot he issue to readdress the problem itself, otherwise again you are conceding to extremist beliefs and allowing them to be again acceptable. Sorry Rgas your view is a negative approach here, where every effort should be placed into changing extremist views, and you do that by proving how bad those ideas are and even more so based around the view point on the well being and equality of others, which is very much enshrined in the Culture of our country. Even more so allowing it to go unchecked with further divide society.

I think you pretty much said that they were probably radicalised at the school. However, let's not dwell on that.

So how do you propose that prevention of radicalisation happens in general? Perhaps some specifics could be discussed.

No I did not, I spoke about pupils being approached as a possibility by one or some of these girls, I never spoke of preachers being allowed into the school as zack is claiming. What I m showing is clearly the school has failed at prevention as 5 girls of testimony of that fact.
Prevention is key and even more importantly is teaching the views of well being and equality.
The later is very instrumental in tacking on bad ideas. It works in many areas, from homophobia, racism, sexism, etc.

by Fuzzy Zack Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:00 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:
The school has been rated as "Outstanding" by Ofsted.

So blaming the school is stupid and the actions of someone irrationally fearful.

It may be hard to believe but kids these days know how to get around teachers, policies and procedures. (Sarcasm Alert!) - D'UH!

Well that is very short sighted, when the girls were very vocal on twitter, to the point you are now claiming others do not view twitter or they would not have been as open as they were on the social media?
Please that is so naive Zack.
The school had 5 girls with these beliefs and you are claiming the school was not aware or at least the pupils. Of which the later shows the school is failing to provide a view for pupils to come forward, which is another failing

So you're now suggesting that schools should monitor their students social media activity? Lol!

Btw: the school follow the an anti extremism policy and procedures in place. Look it up. Ofsted also gave the school an outstanding rating, suggesting they follow regulations.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:01 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:
The school has been rated as "Outstanding" by Ofsted.

So blaming the school is stupid and the actions of someone irrationally fearful.

It may be hard to believe but kids these days know how to get around teachers, policies and procedures. (Sarcasm Alert!) - D'UH!

Well that is very short sighted, when the girls were very vocal on twitter, to the point you are now claiming others do not view twitter or they would not have been as open as they were on the social media?
Please that is so naive Zack.
The school had 5 girls with these beliefs and you are claiming the school was not aware or at least the pupils. Of which the later shows the school is failing to provide a view for pupils to come forward, which is another failing

One pupil at least has said that he never heard anyone talking about joining ISIS at the school.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:02 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I think you pretty much said that they were probably radicalised at the school. However, let's not dwell on that.

So how do you propose that prevention of radicalisation happens in general? Perhaps some specifics could be discussed.

No I did not, I spoke about pupils being approached as a possibility by one or some of these girls, I never spoke of preachers being allowed into the school as zack is claiming. What I m showing is clearly the school has failed at prevention as 5 girls of testimony of that fact.
Prevention is key and even more importantly is teaching the views of well being and equality.
The later is very instrumental in tacking on bad ideas. It works in many areas, from homophobia, racism, sexism, etc.

Well the school can't have failed if they had no idea this was going on. I don't get what you wanted them to do about something they didn't know anything about.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:04 pm

It is of course possible that those three girls went off to find their friend who had gone out to Syria.

They stole jewellery to fund the trip by the way.

by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:04 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Well that is very short sighted, when the girls were very vocal on twitter, to the point you are now claiming others do not view twitter or they would not have been as open as they were on the social media?
Please that is so naive Zack.
The school had 5 girls with these beliefs and you are claiming the school was not aware or at least the pupils. Of which the later shows the school is failing to provide a view for pupils to come forward, which is another failing

So you're now suggesting that schools should monitor their students social media activity? Lol!

Btw: the school follow the an anti extremism policy and procedures in place. Look it up. Ofsted also gave the school an outstanding rating, suggesting they follow regulations.

1) Never claimed any such thing, where again many people follow twitter hence why to claim their views were not known is basically being in denial. Seriously girls that opinionated and not afraid to speak out on these views on the social media are not going to shy away anywhere else from doing so.

2) Great the school has been incorrectly awarded for its measures, which they need to look into further the methods used on prevention, because clearly the school has failed, being as again 5 girls have attempted to join ISIS. Now you can ignore this major fact, but it is a huge failing for if just one did, but 5 proves their methods at preventing need rethinking.

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