On Christian Beheadings

Eilzel wrote:It is certainly appalling that these cases were hardly reported.

However, the topic header is loaded. You aren't seriously trying to compare these are you? I like TYT but the first 'Christian' was pure speculation, whether he is Christian or not it seems his faith was nothing to do with it. He was mental.

The second case evidently was motivated by his Christianity. And backs up my constant argument of religion being poisonous.

However. When a Muslim does it, we have an backlog of very recent beheadings by a fairly prominent Islamist group (you may have heard of them...) who blatantly parade their religion as the banner which unites them and both incites and justifies their grotesque murders. If a Muslim does that anywhere else it is understandable the link would be made.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Eilzel wrote:It is certainly appalling that these cases were hardly reported.

However, the topic header is loaded. You aren't seriously trying to compare these are you? I like TYT but the first 'Christian' was pure speculation, whether he is Christian or not it seems his faith was nothing to do with it. He was mental.

The second case evidently was motivated by his Christianity. And backs up my constant argument of religion being poisonous.

However. When a Muslim does it, we have an backlog of very recent beheadings by a fairly prominent Islamist group (you may have heard of them...) who blatantly parade their religion as the banner which unites them and both incites and justifies their grotesque murders. If a Muslim does that anywhere else it is understandable the link would be made.

Blaming religion for the action of man, especially a psychotic man, is the height of stupidity.

That was the point of the video, which you clearly missed.  

Brasidas wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Blaming religion for the action of man, especially a psychotic man, is the height of stupidity.

That was the point of the video, which you clearly missed.  

Actually religious works are used as justification for such acts.
Clearly then the message is not very clear in a so called book that ie meant to be perfect, in other words dictated by a deity, which shows why it is clearly man made A prefect book what not need any interpretation, it would crystal clear.
So there is very much a connection to religion, the reasons behind the killings may not be, but they will be heavily influenced by religious interpretations.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Brasidas wrote:


Actually religious works are used as justification for such acts.
Clearly then the message is not very clear in a so called book that ie meant to be perfect, in other words dictated by a deity, which shows why it is clearly man made A prefect book what not need any interpretation, it would crystal clear.
So there is very much a connection to religion, the reasons behind the killings may not be, but they will be heavily influenced by religious interpretations.

The book is perfect. Man is not.

How stupid do you have to be to blame a book. Lol!

Books don't kill, people do. D'UH!

Ben_Reilly wrote:OK, but nobody can point out a verse from the Quaran which unambiguously tells Muslims they should kill everyone who isn't a Muslim. So the decision to kill a non-Muslim is made by the person interpreting the book, not the book itself. The blame for a killer's actions always rests on the killer.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Eilzel wrote:It is certainly appalling that these cases were hardly reported.

However, the topic header is loaded. You aren't seriously trying to compare these are you? I like TYT but the first 'Christian' was pure speculation, whether he is Christian or not it seems his faith was nothing to do with it. He was mental.

The second case evidently was motivated by his Christianity. And backs up my constant argument of religion being poisonous.

However. When a Muslim does it, we have an backlog of very recent beheadings by a fairly prominent Islamist group (you may have heard of them...) who blatantly parade their religion as the banner which unites them and both incites and justifies their grotesque murders. If a Muslim does that anywhere else it is understandable the link would be made.

Blaming religion for the action of man, especially a psychotic man, is the height of stupidity.

That was the point of the video, which you clearly missed.

victorisnotamused wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:OK, but nobody can point out a verse from the Quaran which unambiguously tells Muslims they should kill everyone who isn't a Muslim. So the decision to kill a non-Muslim is made by the person interpreting the book, not the book itself. The blame for a killer's actions always rests on the killer.

unless he uses a gun...in which case guns kill

??????????????????????????????????????

hmmm....
please make up your mind......

Tommy Monk wrote:We have very strict gun control here in UK.


The result is that normal everyday people are defenceless while criminals have no problem getting guns.....

Tommy Monk wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Blaming religion for the action of man, especially a psychotic man, is the height of stupidity.

That was the point of the video, which you clearly missed.  

Not when the action of man is following a direct instruction from their religious guide book, and when that whole religion is based on the actions of a man who was himself a psychotic robbing, raping, murdering, barbaric peadophile.....



Anyone who follows this example thinking it is good is stupid....

Brasidas wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

The book is perfect. Man is not.

How stupid do you have to be to blame a book. Lol!

Books don't kill, people do. D'UH!

That has no logic to it, because then the book if perfect would not have different views, because all would see the same views as one, that would be a perfect book, which clearly this is not the case.
Books can encourage people to kill.

Eilzel wrote:Ben you do sometimes fall into the liberal trap of being much harsher with the Bible than the Koran...

Zack you ignore the damaging effect of religion out of instinctive bias. I understand that. But you do no favours for the Muslim community by just writing off any religious factor in things like this. Are ISIS all just evil people? Is there no religious factor at all?

You are acting as the worse kind of apologist. There are other reasons( depression, disillusionment, anti-westernism etc but without the religious element there would be no final push for many people to carry out acts that wicked in the belief they are right to do so.

Ben, you are a reasonable guy, please don't pretend there is nothing in the Koran or Bible that can justify violence.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Brasidas wrote:


That has no logic to it, because then the book if perfect would not have different views, because all would see the same views as one, that would be a perfect book, which clearly this is not the case.
Books can encourage people to kill.

But the interpretation is not just based on the Quran but with the Hadeeth (inc. non orthodox).

Many of the points mentioned by Victor above is based on Hadeeth - some of which is not recognised by Sunni schools of sharia.

You need to understand how Islamic interpretation works. And how it doesn't work.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Ben you do sometimes fall into the liberal trap of being much harsher with the Bible than the Koran...

Zack you ignore the damaging effect of religion out of instinctive bias. I understand that. But you do no favours for the Muslim community by just writing off any religious factor in things like this. Are ISIS all just evil people? Is there no religious factor at all?

You are acting as the worse kind of apologist. There are other reasons( depression, disillusionment, anti-westernism etc but without the religious element there would be no final push for many people to carry out acts that wicked in the belief they are right to do so.

Ben, you are a reasonable guy, please don't pretend there is nothing in the Koran or Bible that can justify violence.

Many are motivated towards violence after watching a movie or playing a video game.

Are you going to hold the person responsible or the movie/game?

Jeffery Dahlmer (serial killer) was motivated by Return of the Jedi. Why don't you blame George Lucas? Because you're not ridiculous.

Or are you?

Tommy Monk wrote:Muslims follow their guide book which tells them what to do and how to behave.


They try to emulate their leader in The guide book.



So for you to say their behaviour has nothing to do with their guide book is completely false.

Tommy Monk wrote:When their behaviour is exactly as written in their guide book then the influence is undeniable!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:Why do you keep quoting that link?


That book just talks about doing what the Koran says and it's sharia law....



It is the Koran that has the instructions And The Koran that they are following....

Tommy Monk wrote:Your attempts at deflection are laughable.....

Tommy Monk wrote:Not given up, just said what I had to say and zack was unable to refute it and instead tried insults and ran away....

Tommy Monk wrote:


"...Milestones, first published in 1964, is a short (12 chapters, 160 pages) book by Egyptian Islamist author Sayyid Qutb in which he lays out a plan and makes a call to action to re-create the Muslim world on strictly Qur'anic grounds..."



As I said.... the Koran is the instruction book that he advocates being followed.... much the same as all Muslims advocate the following of The Koran....

Tommy Monk wrote:


"...Milestones, first published in 1964, is a short (12 chapters, 160 pages) book by Egyptian Islamist author Sayyid Qutb in which he lays out a plan and makes a call to action to re-create the Muslim world on strictly Qur'anic grounds..."



As I said.... the Koran is the instruction book that he advocates being followed.... much the same as all Muslims advocate the following of The Koran....

Tommy Monk wrote:No Christian forces anyone to convert, pay jizya and be persecuted or be killed.... it is not part of Christianity while it is an instruction to Muslims from their guide book!

Tommy Monk wrote:More deflection from current day behaviour by Muslims and The fact that they are acting on direct instructions from their guide book and re-enacting the exact behaviour of their guide book leader....