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Accepting Gay People Could Bring Down Civilisation, Says Devon Newspaper Column

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Post by Guest Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:17 am

First topic message reminder :

The editor of a Devon newspaper says he stands by a column which described homosexuality as "an aberration" and claimed social acceptance of gays signalled the end of the British, Roman and Greek empires.

The South Molton News, a monthly local paper in North Devon, received four complaints and its editor Paul Henderson was questioned by police after publishing the controversial column in its September issue.

One complainant said the article was deeply upsetting and took the small town "back into the dark ages".


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/22/south-molton-news-gay-column_n_5861388.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

WTF....

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Post by Original Quill Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:55 pm

Accepting Gay People Could Bring Down Civilisation, Says Devon Newspaper Column - Page 10 18d78af1b96fe6701e4948b563aacd21bfd8b7c6da82b861d1112e0e087cb3f4

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Post by veya_victaous Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:26 pm

nicko wrote:Elizel,   as soon as gay men are mentioned the instant thought of straight men is ugh, cock up bottom. however much you try you will never change this conception!

that is actually true in a lot of cases particularly teenagers and some straight men will never associate with gay men enough to get past the teenage level of thinking.

But I think Like most things it is familiarity that breeds indifference. When I was 16, when I meet a gay person it went through my head but.. you know teenage boys.... pretty much any woman you meet you thought about what she would look like naked too.... Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink



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Post by Original Quill Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:18 am

veya_victaous wrote:
nicko wrote:Elizel,   as soon as gay men are mentioned the instant thought of straight men is ugh, cock up bottom. however much you try you will never change this conception!

that is actually true in a lot of cases particularly teenagers and some straight men will never associate with gay men enough to get past the teenage level of thinking.

But I think Like most things it is familiarity that breeds indifference. When I was 16, when I meet a gay person it went through my head but.. you know teenage boys.... pretty much any woman you meet you thought about what she would look like naked too....  Wink  Wink  Wink  Wink  Wink

Why? Have you stopped?

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Post by veya_victaous Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:30 am

well normally it's like the third thing I think of now instead of the first Accepting Gay People Could Bring Down Civilisation, Says Devon Newspaper Column - Page 10 4152582110
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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:59 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Ok, but sexual attraction aside the feelings you have for your wife are the same kinds of feelings I have for my partner. These are not the same feelings I have for other male or female friends.

To try to simplify for you. If a man falls in love with another man but never acts on this, and in fact forces himself to commit to a heterosexual marriage which makes him feel miserable and dirty does this man qualify as not gay and normal to you?


Still comes back to the fact that attraction is designed to be between opposite sexes as of biological and mechanical design.


This is The normal and natural and right way of things.

Couple things for you to consider. Though I really don't know why this thread is still active ...

First -- if you're arguing design, you're arguing a designer. Now, who in their right mind would design a body in which the male had his genitalia dangling unprotected in front of him? Or either sex with a head perched atop the most vulnerable part of the body, without even any bones to protect the two most vital arteries?

So that's enough to show that if we were designed, we were designed by a very stupid designer who didn't think it through.

But let's say we were designed; that something with some modicum of intelligence intended us to exist, to procreate; had intended purposes for all of our body parts -- even our wisdom teeth, tailbones and male nipples (the uses for those we just, you know, haven't figured out yet).

Haven't you ever used something for something other than its designed purpose? I know I have on a few occasions used a brick to tap in a nail. Bu-but bricks are for making buildings, not for hammering nails! Fuck you, it worked as a hammer, too.

What's the great evil in using something for something other than what it was designed for? It didn't hurt anybody when I used a brick to drive in a nail. If I'd used the brick as a weapon, that would have been bad, but the simple act of using a thing for something other than its original purpose can't be inherently wrong.

There's no evidence, of course, to suggest that we're anything other than the end result of letting slime on a rock evolve for a few billion years -- certainly not creatures who were put here for a purpose -- but even if we were, that wouldn't make homosexual behavior wrong.

Even if every single person on Earth went gay, we stopped procreating and we went extinct -- well hell, extinction is part of nature too, right? There are more extinct vertebrate species than there are living ones.
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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:25 pm

You still can't get round the intended biological and mechanical design and purpose and attraction being undeniably male female coupling.


You might argue the brick nail thing and job successfully completed, but that would only be part of the job, not creating a whole house for example, just like two homosexuals will never have job done successfully completed because whatever they do, it will never result in conception, ie creation of a whole new life.


It's more like two hammers banging together.
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Post by Eilzel Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:51 pm

I see. So now you are arguing loving relationships are nothing without a child. You have a warped understanding of love and relationships.
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Post by Original Quill Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:46 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


Still comes back to the fact that attraction is designed to be between opposite sexes as of biological and mechanical design.


This is The normal and natural and right way of things.

Couple things for you to consider. Though I really don't know why this thread is still active ...

First -- if you're arguing design, you're arguing a designer. Now, who in their right mind would design a body in which the male had his genitalia dangling unprotected in front of him? Or either sex with a head perched atop the most vulnerable part of the body, without even any bones to protect the two most vital arteries?

So that's enough to show that if we were designed, we were designed by a very stupid designer who didn't think it through.

But let's say we were designed; that something with some modicum of intelligence intended us to exist, to procreate; had intended purposes for all of our body parts -- even our wisdom teeth, tailbones and male nipples (the uses for those we just, you know, haven't figured out yet).

Haven't you ever used something for something other than its designed purpose? I know I have on a few occasions used a brick to tap in a nail. Bu-but bricks are for making buildings, not for hammering nails! Fuck you, it worked as a hammer, too.

What's the great evil in using something for something other than what it was designed for? It didn't hurt anybody when I used a brick to drive in a nail. If I'd used the brick as a weapon, that would have been bad, but the simple act of using a thing for something other than its original purpose can't be inherently wrong.

There's no evidence, of course, to suggest that we're anything other than the end result of letting slime on a rock evolve for a few billion years -- certainly not creatures who were put here for a purpose -- but even if we were, that wouldn't make homosexual behavior wrong.

Even if every single person on Earth went gay, we stopped procreating and we went extinct -- well hell, extinction is part of nature too, right? There are more extinct vertebrate species than there are living ones.

I agree on the intentional design criticism. But one thing has always bothered me about intentional design, in addition: if someone intentionally designed the human body, why would s/he design reproductive organs at all? Why not just make more humans the same way?

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:21 pm

I am saying that the biological and mechanical design and intended purpose of our reproductive organs is....... reproduction!

(The clue is in the name!!!)


And this is evident throughout nature.... being the normal and natural and right way of things, and undeniable.
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Post by Eilzel Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:38 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I am saying that the biological and mechanical design and intended purpose of our reproductive organs is....... reproduction!

(The clue is in the name!!!)


And this is evident throughout nature.... being the normal and natural and right way of things, and undeniable.

There are obvious other functions though; like the removal of waste from the body on the less pleasant side, and for pleasure on the other. These 'organs' are not exclusively for one purpose evidently.

And then still, the point you continue to ignore, the love you have for a husband or wife/boyfriend or girlfriend, isn't all about sex. We don't become attracted to someone, get to like someone, ask someone out etc because we like the idea of putting their 'sexual organs' in whatever place Rolling Eyes
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Post by Original Quill Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:19 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I am saying that the biological and mechanical design and intended purpose of our reproductive organs is....... reproduction!

(The clue is in the name!!!)

And this is evident throughout nature.... being the normal and natural and right way of things, and undeniable.

There is more insight than you realize in that middle passage, Tommy.  Essentially you are saying: the name is the proof for that which I personally name.

It's called a Tautology.  Yes, that bit of circular reasoning is why you are left spinning your wheels for ten pages in this thread.  You don't realize the difference between the 'thing in itself' as Kant said, and the words (which are mental images, or ideas, if you like) used to describe it.  There are a million different ways to show you this, and so many of your friends have offered it to you.  

You are struggling to reify your idea of the purpose of your genitals, and you end up saying the proof is in the name...the name you give it!  So this whole thing is simply going on in your own mind (which is to say, you're a legend in your own mind! Lol).  Why don't you just accept the fact that the world is what it is, and leave it at that.  No purpose.  No design.  No grand architect.  No god.  Your theory is not a 'thing in itself' but simply a way for you to memorize and retain it in your mind.

So there is no moral justification in a world that simply is.  Thus there is no moral justification for your homophobia.  This is why Nietzsche wrote a whole book entitled, Beyond Good and Evil.  Morals are simply man-made opinions about what should be...they are not 'things in themselves.'  Your homophobia is simply your opinion, or taste in lifestyle.

No matter how you writhe and sputter, you can't make more of it than that. Accepting Gay People Could Bring Down Civilisation, Says Devon Newspaper Column - Page 10 Ummm-smiley-emoticon

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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:12 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:I am saying that the biological and mechanical design and intended purpose of our reproductive organs is....... reproduction!

(The clue is in the name!!!)

And this is evident throughout nature.... being the normal and natural and right way of things, and undeniable.

There is more insight than you realize in that middle passage, Tommy.  Essentially you are saying: the name is the proof for that which I personally name.

It's called a Tautology.  Yes, that bit of circular reasoning is why you are left spinning your wheels for ten pages in this thread.  You don't realize the difference between the 'thing in itself' as Kant said, and the words (which are mental images, or ideas, if you like) used to describe it.  There are a million different ways to show you this, and so many of your friends have offered it to you.  

You are struggling to reify your idea of the purpose of your genitals, and you end up saying the proof is in the name...the name you give it!  So this whole thing is simply going on in your own mind (which is to say, you're a legend in your own mind! Lol).  Why don't you just accept the fact that the world is what it is, and leave it at that.  No purpose.  No design.  No grand architect.  No god.  Your theory is not a 'thing in itself' but simply a way for you to memorize and retain it in your mind.

So there is no moral justification in a world that simply is.  Thus there is no moral justification for your homophobia.  This is why Nietzsche wrote a whole book entitled, Beyond Good and Evil.  Morals are simply man-made opinions about what should be...they are not 'things in themselves.'  Your homophobia is simply your opinion, or taste in lifestyle.

No matter how you writhe and sputter, you can't make more of it than that.   Accepting Gay People Could Bring Down Civilisation, Says Devon Newspaper Column - Page 10 Ummm-smiley-emoticon

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:18 pm

They are called reproductive organs for a reason.... and seen being put to same use throughout animal kingdom, male female coupling as is intended.



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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:23 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:They are called reproductive organs for a reason.... and seen being put to same use throughout animal kingdom, male female coupling as is intended.




So if we all held a vote and decided to call them Hanna Montana, would you decide they were designed for singing and dancing? That's the point -- you're biased by what people have chosen to call these organs.

What if we decided to fixate on their excretory function, and thus commonly call them our excretory organs instead? Would you be arguing that sex is an "unnatural" use for them?

Think about it.
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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:38 pm

Was happening before we even had name for them.


And throughout the animal kingdom, they don't have names for their reproductive organs but they still do the same thing.


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Post by Original Quill Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:16 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Was happening before we even had name for them.


And throughout the animal kingdom, they don't have names for their reproductive organs but they still do the same thing.

I know, Tommy. I know. Only you are giving them names, and attaching moral significance to the whole enterprise. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:22 pm

Normal and natural significance.....
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Post by Original Quill Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:29 pm

Tommy's Golden Book of fairie tales...

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:07 pm

No, it's Tommy's cold hard slap of truth and kick of reality.....!

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Post by Guest Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:36 pm

no Tommy ...its a form of tommy being " special"...in that "special" kind of way"




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Post by Eilzel Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:57 am

The reproductive organs also have other functions, mainly the two I mentioned. The point quill made was you are determining sole purpose based on a tag. If someone is an artist and labelled as such we don't state their only purpose in life is to create art- which is what you are doing. By implying the ONLY purpose of a penis is to 'make babies' you are implying anything else (pissing, being sucked, masturbating etc) is unnatural, since they are not what the 'tag' states it is used for.....
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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:05 am

Pissing is clever design, part cleaning organs as slightly acidic and.....


http://www.smart-publications.com/articles/human-pheromones-the-science-behind-the-scent-of-attraction

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1885393/



And pleasure is a byproduct, a stimulation designed to encourage the primary purpose as of biological and mechanical design........
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Post by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:33 am

At this point, I'd say it's Tommy Monk Vs. The World ... only Tommy's no Scott Pilgrim ...
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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:45 am

Homosexuality is no normal or natural....... that is The overwhelming view of the world population.... plus the animal kingdom.... even brainless plants know it's male/female.....
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Post by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:58 am

I wouldn't be so quick to call anything "brainless" if I were you, Tommy ... not even a houseplant Smile
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Post by Eilzel Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:57 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Pissing is clever design, part cleaning organs as slightly acidic and.....


http://www.smart-publications.com/articles/human-pheromones-the-science-behind-the-scent-of-attraction

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1885393/



And pleasure is a byproduct, a stimulation designed to encourage the primary purpose as of biological and mechanical design........

Point missed. Yet again.

If you want to label them 'reproductive organs' and insist anything BUT using them for reproduction is 'not normal or natural' then by default your simplistic (and as such flawed) argument leaves pissing as apparently 'unnatural'.

Now you add pissing is simply clever design. Well I disagree with the use of the word 'design', I'd call it a clever product of evolution but hey ho... In any case we both agree that the 'reproductive organs' have another use which is not reproductive in itself- and of course as we see with the pleasure aspect, there are other uses of the 'reproductive organs' which nature has been so good to grant us.

So you see the point quill was making? Call the genitals what you like, they still do other things and have other uses, whether as functional as pissing or enjoyable as other activities. To use the argument 'the clue is in the name (reproductive organs)' as though it adds weight to your already shaky argument actually exposes it to the innate flaws of your argument (and most arguments you come up with tbf).

This doesn't actually argue your whole fallacious point away, but it does blow to pieces one clever remark you made (the clue is the name...). However, the implications of this one weak link pretty much sum up your whole illogical attempts to debate more broadly.
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Post by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:54 am

I'd just add that having the penis and testes hang unprotected from the front of the body is really poor design, considering they're the most important organs for males to be able to procreate.

Of course, they weren't hanging out front, wiggling around like fish bait, in our ancestral animals that walked on all fours. But no, the designer didn't think about that, apparently, forcing men such as our own Handy Andy to be greeted by friends before he's even walked through the door ...
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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:34 pm

Waffle les....
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Post by Eilzel Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:59 pm

Christ your stupidity hurts, for someone so intent on trying to look like he knows what he's talking about you do a real good job of showing yourself up as a total pillock :/
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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:18 pm

So nothing to say about piss and pheramones linked directly to attraction and fertility then.....
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