Rotherham abuse enquiry

by Tommy Monk Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

LIVE: Prof Alexis Jay presents her report into child sexual exploitation in Rotherham
At least 1,400 children were subjected to "appalling" sexual exploitation in Rotherham between 1997 and 2013, a report has found.
Children as young as 11 were raped by multiple perpetrators, abducted, trafficked to other cities in England, beaten and intimidated it said.
The report was commissioned by Rotherham Borough Council in 2013.
Five men from the town were jailed for sexual offences against girls in 2010.
'Doused in petrol'Professor Alexis Jay, who wrote the report, said there had been "blatant" collective failures by the council's leadership, senior managers had "underplayed" the scale of the problem and South Yorkshire Police had failed to prioritise the issue.
She also found the majority of perpetrators were of Pakistani heritage.
Prof Jay said: "It is hard to describe the appalling nature of the abuse that child victims suffered."
She said she found examples of "children who had been doused in petrol and threatened with being set alight, threatened with guns, made to witness brutally-violent rapes and threatened they would be next if they told anyone".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28939089

It's only a few though Didge....

She also said this number was a very conservative figure.

And this was only Rotherham.

by Eilzel Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:01 pm

It's nonesense to say PC is about mind control vic, where is Big Brother ;-)

Fact is if people weren't prejuduced against the Muslim community on a large scale thrn the fear of being cast as such wouldn't have existed to allow thus to happen.

@didge, I was using the term murder generically to describe what is done in war, don't look too deep into it, I should have said kill.

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:02 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:Except of course we cant go beack many decades, since the understanding of how children relate to truth wasnt around not so very long ago...
It used to be assumed that children would lie at the drop of a hat and against a clergyman's word there was no chance...changes in understandin have negated that.
Moreover in recent decades the church itself "as an authority" of sorts ensured that people kept shtum...with threats and browbeating...
That is irrelevant Victor being as many children were abused and it was covered up, in fact very much so by the Catholic Church who are only admitting today the extent of this cover up not only here but world wide, showing again the reality is this is just one of many examples where the victims have been let down where they were not believed where in fact some did come forward

Again much of the above applies along with the additional problem that many "celebs" had direct acces to govt figures and were powerful individuals (because of their wealth)
Also thes were not a "group" in general...more powerful predatory individuals a different matter.
It is a group that has seen them have exemption from scrutiny Victor to the point again, many who made claims was hushed up or covered up, so again, you cannot discount this was a massive problem where so far 600 victims have come forward in Operation Yewtree

hmmm...again much of the first comment applies here, with the even worse factor that these people were in charge of things and could call the shots..they had REAL power ofver people plus the ability to make evidence "dissapear" It is a different kettle of fish when the authority that should be doing the chasing is the same as the one doing the wrong..
Sorry that is poor, what you have is the tip of the Iceberg to an even bigger issue, with those in charge in the highest authority ignoring a huge problem to the extent there is now 114 missing files on cases relating to offences, that has to be no doubt the biggest cover up to date

this is a relatively new phenomena as far as being known is concerned....and much less likely to be reported.....not relevant to this argument..
New or not, the problem has been going on for a very long time and no real attention has been paid to it, which is a massive problem based on the estimates of the amount of offenders an the lack of convictions, where again more needs to be done to help victims come forward

the fact remain that this was covered up because...and soley because, the perps were Muslim.....just as in bradford...by chicken livered lefties.

If that is why it was covered up, all agree it is wrong, nobody has denied that Victor, but it is not new where mistakes have happened and where victims countless times have been let down

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:19 pm

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:Except of course we cant go beack many decades, since the understanding of how children relate to truth wasnt around not so very long ago...
It used to be assumed that children would lie at the drop of a hat and against a clergyman's word there was no chance...changes in understandin have negated that.
Moreover in recent decades the church itself "as an authority" of sorts ensured that people kept shtum...with threats and browbeating...
That is irrelevant Victor being as many children were abused and it was covered up, in fact very much so by the Catholic Church who are only admitting today the extent of this cover up not only here but world wide, showing again the reality is this is just one of many examples where the victims have been let down where they were not believed where in fact some did come forward

Again much of the above applies along with the additional problem that many "celebs" had direct acces to govt figures and were powerful individuals (because of their wealth)
Also thes were not a "group" in general...more powerful predatory individuals a different matter.
It is a group that has seen them have exemption from scrutiny Victor to the point again, many who made claims was hushed up or covered up, so again, you cannot discount this was a massive problem where so far 600 victims have come forward in Operation Yewtree

hmmm...again much of the first comment applies here, with the even worse factor that these people were in charge of things and could call the shots..they had REAL power ofver people plus the ability to make evidence "dissapear" It is a different kettle of fish when the authority that should be doing the chasing is the same as the one doing the wrong..
Sorry that is poor, what you have is the tip of the Iceberg to an even bigger issue, with those in charge in the highest authority ignoring a huge problem to the extent there is now 114 missing files on cases relating to offences, that has to be no doubt the biggest cover up to date

which kind reinforces what I said....they can make the evidence "disappear" and the "authority" that should be investigating is the same body that is under investigation so no chance there....

this is a relatively new phenomena as far as being known is concerned....and much less likely to be reported.....not relevant to this argument..
New or not, the problem has been going on for a very long time and no real attention has been paid to it, which is a massive problem based on the estimates of the amount of offenders an the lack of convictions, where again more needs to be done to help victims come forward

the fact remain that this was covered up because...and soley because, the perps were Muslim.....just as in bradford...by chicken livered lefties.

If that is why it was covered up, all agree it is wrong, nobody has denied that Victor, but it is not new where mistakes have happened
you are too charitable didge...it wasnt a "mistake". it was sheer malicious deliberate "reverse racism" if you want to be harsh, and moral cowardice of the highest order if you wish to be kind...

and where victims countless times have been let down

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:21 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:
Didge wrote:

If that is why it was covered up, all agree it is wrong, nobody has denied that Victor, but it is not new where mistakes have happened
you are too charitable didge...it wasnt a "mistake". it was sheer malicious deliberate "reverse racism" if you want to be harsh, and moral cowardice of the highest order if you wish to be kind...

and where victims countless times have been let down
you are too charitable didge...it wasnt a "mistake". it was sheer malicious deliberate "reverse racism" if you want to be harsh, and moral cowardice of the highest order if you wish to be kind...

Not sure I agree it was deliberate racism, but I have stated many times those who covered this up should face prosecution

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:23 pm

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:
you are too charitable didge...it wasnt a "mistake". it was sheer malicious deliberate "reverse racism" if you want to be harsh, and moral cowardice of the highest order if you wish to be kind...

Not sure I agree it was deliberate racism, but I have stated many times those who covered this up should face prosecution

If "picking" on a "group" because of its race is "racism" then so is "favouring"/ covering up for/excusing on the grounds of race.......

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:29 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:
Didge wrote:

Not sure I agree it was deliberate racism, but I have stated many times those who covered this up should face prosecution

If "picking" on a "group" because of its race is "racism" then so is "favouring"/ covering up for/excusing on the grounds of race.......

Again a fear of racism was used to poorly excuse their inaction, which I agree is based around poor PC, but PC has grown from idiotic racism, making the whole issue one vicious circle to the point Eilzel is right that without such racism in the first place and where there has been institutional racism with in the Police force I doubt this would have been covered up in the first place. Thus you are neglecting the cause behind such a PC culture. Thus again much fault does stem with the Police force built from their own poor record of of failing to deal with racism within the force

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:36 pm

nah didge ...thats just an excuse to excuse an excuse......

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:40 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:nah didge ...thats just an excuse to excuse an excuse......

Sorry Victor, you cannot just ignore what created PC in the first place or ignore the fact there was a massive problem with institutional racism within the Police force and this inaction to deal with it has thus led to later fears of being classed as racist

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:44 pm

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:nah didge ...thats just an excuse to excuse an excuse......

Sorry Victor, you cannot just ignore what created PC in the first place...left wing-ism........ or ignore the fact there was a massive problem with institutional racism within the Police force and this inaction to deal with it has thus led to later fears of being classed as racist. since when has "i'm scared...been an excuse??? people got shot for that in the wars....what happened to "without fear of favour" eh?

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:45 pm

Well you need to understand where the problem first started, this does not excuse their inaction, but explains why it happened, where again, as I stated those that failed to act should be prosecuted

by Eilzel Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:10 pm

Exactly didge.

Vic 'left wingism' whatever that's supposed to be... Would need to have some target of political correctness. The 'left wing' would simply create PC for shits and giggles, to control thoughts (sci fi paranoid BS honestly). If racism had never existed there would never have been PC; and so never have been the mess of reverse racism leading to tragic fuck ups like this.

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:14 pm

Didge wrote:Oh dear someone is spitting his dummy out and proving my point in regards to his real argument here, best you go and calm down Matti, you have been exposed.
There is no deflection, and as Zack stated what would you do?
Like any case nothing should not be investigated, but this is nothing new and there have been countless cases where the authorities have failed to take on abuse cases, where again you ignore the fact we have a massive problem in this country with child offenders and you only want to talk about a small percentage of this, showing you have no concern for the victims at all and just want to use their plight a a platform to spout your racist agenda

I've already said what I want to see happen.

All historical cases investigated fully and prosecutions brought.

And dodge, you are ignoring the deliberate and complicity cover up in these crimes, as well as the racial evendmt involved when in all other cases action would have been taken and perpetrators swiftly hunted down and brought before the courts to face justice.

All those involved in covering up and failing to act properly should also be prosecuted as accessories.

How many Paki Muslims were in a position of power and decision in The council and social services etc when all this cover up was going on?

How many councillors were Paki Muslims and involved in cover up?

by Eilzel Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:16 pm

I see you're orgasming over the use of the word 'paki' now tommy. Racist is as racist was.

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:21 pm

Labour embarked on a mass immigration policy as well as their PC policy of calling anyone racist who dared to mention immigration.
Blaming this protection of Paki Muslims and covering up on whites being racist is just pure bullshit.

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:39 pm

Eilzel wrote:Exactly didge.

Vic 'left wingism' whatever that's supposed to be... Would need to have some target of political correctness. The 'left wing' would simply create PC for shits and giggles, to control thoughts (sci fi paranoid BS honestly). If racism had never existed there would never have been PC; and so never have been the mess of reverse racism leading to tragic fuck ups like this.

denialism at its best

granted you cant contol thoughts per se....BUT

If you contol the words people use, and how they can express themselves you CAN stop them being able to formulate certain ideas or at least weaken such ideas to the point of uselessness....

Imagine a world where the ONLY negative you could use was "not good" or in "newspeak terms "ungood".....how would you formulate and express the idea of diabolical, or evil, or foul, or any of the other strong descriptions of "bad" that we have...truth is you couldnt.....ALL levels of bad would merely become "ungood" and thus the idea of something REALLY bad would become devalued and useless

In this world ISIS wouldnt be evil ...they would merely be "ungood"...no worse than minor irritating smell......

THATS how lefty PC "thought control" is designed to work....thats why schools no longer refer to a blackboard (although to be fair of course as such they dont exist anymore, most use white boards Rolling Eyes

which strangly isnt racist...or "green boards" with yellow "chalk") thats why you would get chucked out of a council meeting for refering to a problem as "a ni66ger in a wood pile"...the history of which SHOULD be taught. Thats why I have to "disguise the word even in a reasonable conversation such as this because even using it as an exempler is "wacist".

by Eilzel Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:48 pm

The ideas you express in most of that vic are imaginative but not actual reality, nor will level be (and even if they were, 'ungood' would come to have the same meaning as 'evil' by what it is associated with, so the point is lost anyway).

And while again showing examples of words now un-PC is still not really explaing 'why'? Why 'left wingism' would create PC in the first place. And simply inventing some disbolical political entity just isn't good enough I'm afraid. If you want to explain why PC began and developed as it has you need to offer a solid explanation. Because the reason me and didge gave is pretty obvious and whether people hate PC or not most at least understand the reason it is there.

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:48 pm

Sorry Victor that is a complete deflection to the point being made which is not one on words but racism towards groups of ethnic minorities to the extent institutional racism was found rife within a system that is meant to protect and serve the nation not discriminate against them and if found such an institution is corrupt of which racism is one form, then people lose credibility and belief in that system. Thus out of this racism further measure were put in place to stem and try and resolve this problem, which again would have not been necessary, without racism within the first place, the point you are missing. Again it does not excuse the officers or any authority for doing their job, but because or racism being rife in the past, it has led to others to then fear themselves being cast as racist due to others who certainly were racist.

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:54 pm

Didge wrote:Sorry Victor that is a complete deflection to the point being made which is not one on words but racism towards groups of ethnic minorities to the extent institutional racism was found rife within a system that is meant to protect and serve the nation not discriminate against them and if found such an institution is corrupt of which racism is one form, then people lose credibility and belief in that system. Thus out of this racism further measure were put in place to stem and try and resolve this problem, which again would have not been necessary, without racism within the first place, the point you are missing. Again it does not excuse the officers or any authority for doing their job, but because or racism being rife in the past, it has led to others to then fear themselves being cast as racist due to others who certainly were racist.

So what you are actually saying then didge is that these PC obediant types are actually cowards of the highest degree...

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:57 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:
Didge wrote:Sorry Victor that is a complete deflection to the point being made which is not one on words but racism towards groups of ethnic minorities to the extent institutional racism was found rife within a system that is meant to protect and serve the nation not discriminate against them and if found such an institution is corrupt of which racism is one form, then people lose credibility and belief in that system. Thus out of this racism further measure were put in place to stem and try and resolve this problem, which again would have not been necessary, without racism within the first place, the point you are missing. Again it does not excuse the officers or any authority for doing their job, but because or racism being rife in the past, it has led to others to then fear themselves being cast as racist due to others who certainly were racist.

So what you are actually saying then didge is that these PC obediant types are actually cowards of the highest degree...

Not really., racism again has led to people being in fear, again the cause and affect of racism, which again without would they fear Victor?

by David Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:00 pm

This is an appalling horrible tragedy. The worst is that the people who are supposed to protect those kids failed to report those crimes! Why? Because they feared being called racist because it involved Pakistanis. These people are worse than those criminals. They stood by and did nothing. I am furious!

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:02 pm

David wrote:This is an appalling horrible tragedy. The worst is that the people who are supposed to protect those kids failed to report those crimes! Why? Because they feared being called racist because it involved Pakistanis. These people are worse than those criminals. They stood by and did nothing. I am furious!

Agreed David, that is why I think they should be prosecuted, nothing should stand in the way of prosecuting any crime, which is why I have said racism and its fears are not an excuse.

by David Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:07 pm

Didge wrote:
David wrote:This is an appalling horrible tragedy. The worst is that the people who are supposed to protect those kids failed to report those crimes! Why? Because they feared being called racist because it involved Pakistanis. These people are worse than those criminals. They stood by and did nothing. I am furious!

Agreed David, that is why I think they should be prosecuted, nothing should stand in the way of prosecuting any crime, which is why I have said racism and its fears are not an excuse.

All the bystanders should pay as well for this crime. Twisted Evil

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:29 pm

Eilzel wrote:The ideas you express in most of that vic are imaginative but not actual reality, nor will level be (and even if they were, 'ungood' would come to have the same meaning as 'evil' by what it is associated with, so the point is lost anyway).

wrong eil...or else the concept of merely a bit bad would be lost..... how could you use the same word to describe the "badness" of say burning wood AND the evil of isis....even a context driven language like english couldnt manage THAT gyration, and given that the great unwashed out there, from sun readers to DM readers are largely illiterate and can certainly not produce a single coherent thought for themselves such a ploy would work very well.

I have seen it at work here....the merest hint of condemnation of a protected group and wham...you is a racist...lets close down the argument...no matter how valid the argument may be....example....there can be NO denying that the unrestricted and unwarrented immigration we have had over the last 10-20 years has caused more problems than it has brought benefits, oh yes there are "statistics to "prove " this or that but they are in general exactly that...statistics...lies dressed up in the respectability of maths...but it has put vast pressure on housing, heath care and schools...and "we" are paying for it...they dont add the cost of that into the cost benefit calculation of immigration.....our children pay for it in schools whare english is a minority language.....our "own " pay for it when there is a lack of hospital beds, and queues for treatment.

"we" pay for it every time there is the possibility of personal conflict with someone of another "group". Lets face it..if i catch up with a guy, who just happens to be one of these "groups" who I know to have been pilfering my shed, and whack him, all he has to say is "its cos I is black" and i'm looking at 5 years for racially agravated assault...I do the same to the brit up the road and i get fined 50 quid and bound over for a year...

PC is not about control??? dont make me laugh across multiple (lefty controlled) councils over a number of years we have had shops required to remove their christmas displays so as not to "offend" a particular group...now I know of a number of shop keepers who said bog off...prosecute me....well the council knew damn well they couldnt possibly prosecute, it would never stand up...do you know how they enforced this unreasonable order.....by suggesting to the shop keepers that if they didnt comply their rates would ummm....be raised next year...all because of inflation mind you ...yeah right.......

And while again showing examples of words now un-PC is still not really explaing 'why'? Why 'left wingism' would create PC in the first place. ...control..pure and simple... look at the bin spy example i gave...ALL of which were lefty controlled councils.....And simply inventing some disbolical political entity just isn't good enough I'm afraid. If you want to explain why PC began and developed as it has you need to offer a solid explanation. Because the reason me and didge gave is pretty obvious and whether people hate PC or not most at least understand the reason it is there.

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:31 pm

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

So what you are actually saying then didge is that these PC obediant types are actually cowards of the highest degree...

Not really., racism again has led to people being in fear, again the cause and affect of racism, which again without would they fear Victor?

If you fail to do what is right, and moreover what is your DUTY (in the case of the police under oath) out of fear...then you are a coward ...pure and simple......

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:31 pm

Is Racism wrong Victor?

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:36 pm

THAT depends on where you draw the boundaries of "racism" didge...

like everything else the word has been devalued

I have my view of what constitutes racism and what doesnt....I dont accept that it is "unconditional"

you tell me your definition of racism and its boundaries...and I can tell you if i agree with that or not
but asking the pure question of is racism wrong is value dependant......its NOT "black or white" (no pun intended)

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:38 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:THAT depends on where you draw the boundaries of "racism" didge...

like everything else the word has been devalued

I have my view of what constitutes racism and what doesnt....I dont accept that it is "unconditional"

you tell me your definition of racism and its boundaries...and I can tell you if i agree with that or not
but asking the pure question of is racism wrong is value dependant......its NOT "black or white" (no pun intended)

Is it wrong or not?
We are talking about racism here, which is the belief to view wrongly other groups racially as inferior or with hate and disdain?

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:01 pm

As to your pother point on immigration all point to it being beneficial, where the problem is though is within people themselves, because the reality is by and large people who come here adapt to many of our ways, whilst still obtaining many of their own ethnic identities which has been one of the successes of the US. The arguments made on immigration are nothing short built a deflection of people not liking the fact they wish or want to live next to others that speak a different first language and may dress different to them. By and large the reality is many other people have no issue getting along with these peoples, so why is it that others seem to think they cannot?

Well again it all boils down to fear, dislike and onto what you stated about PC, control where others try to control people with a view to fear of immigrants, that use any problem found by some immigrants to then instill a fear to cast blame and use excuses not to get along with people, as that is what it all boils down to Victor, showing your own point on control viewed from anti immigrants is very much the same. If others have no problem getting along with the vast majority of immigrants, then it stands to reason that nobody else has a valid reason not to themselves, and to use the countless arguments I have heard are nothing short of excuses not to.

The reality is the British public brought mass immigration onto themselves by many people having for one no interest in doing minimum wage jobs, which there is little to do to change the pay on based around the competition within the EU, and the fact it was easier for people to stay off work on benefits, than to do these jobs, which led to many companies crying out for labour abroad to fill these gaps. To then have people complain today, when in reality this situation was brought about by and large from a certain element from within the working class community. To then blame people who by and large just came here to have work and start new lives is poor and wrong on those seeking to use them as scapegoats as they do for any problems. Yes some do come here and commit crime and some do not even adapt our ways, but the vast majority do. The reality is this is no different to Brits who leave here, where in fact they keep very much to their cultural ways, but we never hear anyone complain about that. The reality is much is based on cultural ways or in the case of Muslims, religion , where this has been used countless times in this country before, be it as it once was when Afro Caribbeans first came, to Asians, to Jews, to Catholics, to Irish, all being used as scapegoats to problems in a nation and because the amount of people has increased, people become even more selfish not wishing to share a land they are nothing but privileged just to have been born onto.

It is a failed argument from many that has been used countless times before and thus seeks to keep a divide between people and not one of moving forward, which again is all based around racism. You may deny this and not saying you are, far from it, but the central arguments around racism are used the same when applied to arguments on immigration and hence why controls have tried to be applied to stem the problem of racism. Now thus the only people who are a problem are those coming here not wishing to adapt into society and those not wishing to share this land with others, where the rest happily get along and if the later can do so, there is no justifiable reason why the rest cannot. It proves all arguments against immigration are nothing short of excuses from people who just do not want to get along with people

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:04 pm

Catch you later mate

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:08 pm

The question still not answered....
How many of those in council/social services who were in a position of authority and decision making who were complicit in covering up these crimes were in fact themselves Paki Muslims???
How many councillors were?

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:20 pm

http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/councillors/name

by Guest Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:21 pm

Bang goes Matti's racist theory

Night all

by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:38 am

How many during 1997-2010?

And how many others in decision making authority positions during this time too?

by Eilzel Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:55 am

@victor

I'm absolutely not denying PC has been taken too far on too many occasions. It has, the Rotherham scandal being an extreme case but then there is all those you mention (black boards, no Christmas trees etc.), that isn't my point. We are in agreement there.

But without racism there would have been no 'problem' for which PC could have been introduced to tackle in the first place.

Let me ask you this. If the PC system was ripped away, do you think the racists, xenophobes, sexists and homophobes would restrain themselves? Or do you think they'd be more vocal, directly and snidely, than ever before?

If you think the answer to both is yes then you basically concede why PC exists. Yes councils can go too far and that probably is about power. But don't kid yourself that our polticians, for decades, have had to grand scheme by which they intend to control us (in a pathetically limited, irrelevant, and at least to the point of tackling bigotry-beneficial way).

by Guest Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:10 pm

Eilzel wrote:@victor

I'm absolutely not denying PC has been taken too far on too many occasions. It has, the Rotherham scandal being an extreme case but then there is all those you mention (black boards, no Christmas trees etc.), that isn't my point. We are in agreement there.

But without racism there would have been no 'problem' for which PC could have been introduced to tackle in the first place.

Let me ask you this. If the PC system was ripped away, do you think the racists, xenophobes, sexists and homophobes would restrain themselves? Or do you think they'd be more vocal, directly and snidely, than ever before?

If you think the answer to both is yes then you basically concede why PC exists. Yes councils can go too far and that probably is about power.

so riddle me this....why is it that those councils most active with PC stupidity and abuse are lefty councils almost exclusively?
much of te PC we see is council driven..it is NOT law as such it is the misappropriation of laws for other purposes.
We have in this country the strongest antio discrimination laws going in the main...they are not to be considered PC...after all its quite right that there is law against abusing someone for any given trait. what is NOT right is how it has been expanded by unscrupulous people in persuit of power
the left have a vested interest in PC as a means of control, a means to close down discussion...a prime example of which was browns disgusting comment to that old woman who challenged him on immigration.... and has led to the whole battery of verbal assault weapons in the hands of the lefty...the sixhirb slurs, used to silence dissent.
Sorry Eil, you wont change my mind on this...I've been around whilst PC was slipped like a dagger into the side of open and honest discussion of any subject the left wished NOT to have discussed....and seen it used as a weapon of psychology to force people into line for fear of what they MAY be labeled with...(which was the whole point of the "bin spy" sessions)

I utterly fail to see how banning christmas has ANYTHING to do with racism/bigotry (except of course that it is "reverse bigotry" which the left refuse to acknowledge) because of course THEY are the ones practicing it))

But don't kid yourself that our polticians, for decades, have had to grand scheme by which they intend to control us (in a pathetically limited, irrelevant, and at least to the point of tackling bigotry-beneficial way).

All the "PC" in the world wont cure bigotry....what it does is, as I have explained prevent people formulating and expressing such thoughts in a coherent manner. which goes back to what i was saying earlier.....However it WONT remove the inherent dislike that the bigot has of his chosen target...Further it ends up pissiing people who CAN see through it off, I wouldnt treat most "others" in anyway different to anyone else though with good reasons there are individual exceptions and I'll be f**ked if i'm having some jumped up tree hugging yoghurt knitter tell me I'm racist because I wont trust "X" or "Y" for my own GOOD reasons and experience.

whether the left like it or not ...I have a RIGHT to dislike anyone...for any reason, and indeed, if experience so dictates, to apply that distrust on a "group" basis to protect my own interests.

by nicko Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:47 pm

I agree with that vic, pc is/has turning our country into something I don't like.

by Eilzel Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:40 pm

Ok vic, in fairness we will just have to agree to disagree. While I am with you in PC being abused by some I remain of the opinion it is there for a reason- not, to my mind, to control thoughts or expression, but to prevent overt unwarranted offense or discrimination- basically to attempt to maintain community cohesion. You disagree with that, fair enough, we wont get anywhere further with this though I think.

However, what I don't want is ludicrous situations such as what happened in Rotheram. Even those of us that can see the reason and benefit for being PC think this should never have happened. And sure enough if real racism wasn't a real problem I honestly don't think this situation would have been able to develop.

by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:49 pm

Just for dodge.....

"A group of 'influential' Pakistani councillors were accused in the report by a council officer of blocking attempts to tackle the abuse and also meddling in domestic abuse cases involving Asian women in the town."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2735194/Girls-young-11-doused-petrol-told-raped-next.html#ixzz3BcNPVuFR

Oh dear!

by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:15 pm

And....

"The report also alleges that Labour politicians
from the same community 'acted as barriers' to attempts to tackle the
16-year campaign of abuse.
And when
the Pakistani-heritage Deputy Council Leader suggested tackling the
situation 'head-on' in the Pakistani community he was overruled by
colleagues, it was said."

by Guest Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:24 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Just for dodge.....

"A group of 'influential' Pakistani councillors were accused in the report by a council officer of blocking attempts to tackle the abuse and also meddling in domestic abuse cases involving Asian women in the town."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2735194/Girls-young-11-doused-petrol-told-raped-next.html#ixzz3BcNPVuFR

Oh dear!

Oh dear indeed your evidence being there are only two and this is a claim made by another Councillor, you really are utterly clueless matti in your pathetic attempts to to justify your racism.
So we know there is two today out of countless and thus the majority where white who did nothing and you speak nothing about these white people who were complicit in doing nothing for the victims, which is even more telling.
But hey you are not interested that 95% of child offenders are white, that does not conform to racist agenda

by Guest Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:27 pm

I see Matti omits this part:

And when the Pakistani-heritage Deputy Council Leader suggested tackling the situation 'head-on' in the Pakistani community he was overruled by colleagues, it was said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2735194/Girls-young-11-doused-petrol-told-raped-next.html#ixzz3BhH3wbjO
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Thus it does not say Pakistani Colleagues, but colleagues which includes white Councillors, they are not separated by apartheid you know Matti , of my

by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:31 pm

Didn't omit anything.

It's above in my previous post.

And there might only be two today but we are talking about over the last 16 years where it says quite clearly in The report.....

"A group of 'influential' Pakistani councillors were accused in the report by a council officer of blocking attempts to tackle the abuse and also meddling in domestic abuse cases involving Asian women in the town."

We know who the real racists are and where their loyalties lay....

by Guest Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:35 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Didn't omit anything.

It's above in my previous post.

And there might only be two today but we are talking about over the last 16 years where it says quite clearly in The report.....

"A group of 'influential' Pakistani councillors were accused in the report by a council officer of blocking attempts to tackle the abuse and also meddling in domestic abuse cases involving Asian women in the town."

We know who the real racists are and where their loyalties lay....

Yes we know you are the racist with your continual reference to pakistani people as Pakis, where all Councillors are complicit whether Pakistani British or English or British the point you utterly miss, but you excuse those being white, where I condemn them all and to me all should face prosecution, thus you expose further your agenda and racism

by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:36 pm

And what you are failing to recognise is that this shows that it was widely known about within the councillors.
Plus it was up for debate whether they should do anything or not.
This should never have been in question.
And It shows that councillors were directly involved in deciding nothing should be done.

by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:40 pm

I have not excused anything.

That would be your behaviour....

Excuses, denials, deflection, lies, twisting, and bullshit.

by Guest Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:40 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:And what you are failing to recognise is that this shows that it was widely known about within the councillors.
Plus it was up for debate whether they should do anything or not.
This should never have been in question.
And It shows that councillors were directly involved in deciding nothing should be done.

You proved your racism again you asked how many were Pakistani, where nobody is concerned at the ethnicity of the Councillors being as they are all complicit to this failing and guilty. Thus being as the vast majority are white and using your racist logic, you are unconcerned that many white people have neglected to protect many white victims of sexual abuse.
As I say every day you expose your stupidity and racism, it matters not what ethnicity they are but the fact they all failed the victims and that they all face punishment, but as seen you tried to excuse those who were white showing your your own daft racist logic backfires on you

by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:50 pm

And it's funny how a few posts back you were getting all irate at my suggestion that there may have been Paki Muslims within the council in authority positions facilitating the cover up, accusing me of racism for suggesting it even,...... but now I've shown that this was exactly what was going on you are reluctantly condemning them all....

And of course it matters that it was Paki Muslim councillors covering up for Paki Muslim child rapists!

It shows that they're more interested in protecting their own than victims of crime.

What would these councillors be saying if it was Paki Muslim girls being saraped by whites...?

Do you think they would have been covering that up???

We know who the real racists are.

by Guest Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:53 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:And it's funny how a few posts back you were getting all irate at my suggestion that there may have been Paki Muslims within the council in authority positions facilitating the cover up, accusing me of racism for suggesting it even,...... but now I've shown that this was exactly what was going on you are reluctantly condemning them all....
And of course it matters that it was Paki Muslim councillors covering up for Paki Muslim child rapists!
It shows that they're more interested in protecting their own than victims of crime.
What would these councillors be saying if it OAP Paki Muslim girls being saraped by whites...?

Do you think they would have been covering that up???

We know who the real racists are.

Irate that makes me laugh, talk about the worst excuse to try and get yourself out of a big hole you dug, I led you easily into a trap as I always do and as seen you have by your own stupidity tried to lesson the guilt of the vast majority of Councillors who are white who were complicit in this failing.

You really exposed yourself once again dummy ha ha

Again "all" Councillors are complicit and "all" are wrong, but only a daft racist moron would try to excuse the ones who were white by centering on the Pakistani ones. I have stated all should face prosecution showing your feeble attempts do not hold any validity, best you go and run off and play with your dolls matti, there is a good little girl

by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:01 pm

I'm not excusing anyone, I have already posted that I think all should be prosecuted as accessories

Maybe you should read back to the first few posts.

And that was before there was even any suggestion that any facilitating the cover up were themselves Paki Muslims.

Yet were denying it, and even accusing me of racism for suggesting it.

But now it has been shown to be true you still call ME a racist when it is obvious that the racists were in rotherham council covering up child rapes and abuse because the perpetrators were Paki Muslims and the victims were overwhelmingly white.

This would never have been allowed to happen if the perpetrators were not Paki Muslims.

So we know who the real racists are and I want to see action against them all.

by Guest Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:04 pm

Oh dear the spaces between his sentences are getting bigger proving how much he is really wound up now after I exposed him yet again ha ha ha

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