Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

by Guest Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Likud Charter Calls for Destruction of Any Palestinian State

By Jonathan Weiler

Since virtually every comment on Hamas in American media includes the assertion that the group’s Charter rejects Israel’s right to exist, it’s worth noting the following from the Likud Platform of 1999:

a. “The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.”

b. “Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel.
The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem”

c. “The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.”

d. “The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.

There have been some updates to the platform more recently, reflecting Israel’s withdrawal of settlements from Gaza in 2005. But the Likud Party has *never* in its statements of principles, accepted a Palestinian State. Its electoral partner, Yisrael Beitenu, has likewise categorically rejected the possibility of an independent Palestinian State, insisting that the idea is nothing more than a ploy to facilitate the destruction of Israel.

The Hamas charter, of course, does more than just reject Israel as a sovereign political entity. It’s a vile document that echoes some of the worst anti-Semitic tropes of the modern era. But on the central question of one side denying the other’s legitimacy — it’s hard to ignore the symmetry between Likud – the party of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu – and Hamas.

Some defenders of Israel become indignant at the mention of these realities as scurrilous and spurious because the Likud platform quoted above is just an “old” statement of principles not reflective of the Party’s actions in power. But by that logic, the Hamas Charter, written over 25 years ago, cannot be said to be the sole controlling document of that organization, since much more recent statements and actions by its leadership have, at least some times, included an expressed willingness to pursue a long-term agreement with Israel. Furthermore, Hamas also agreed to join the Palestinian Authority in a unity government that accepts all previous PA agreements with Israel.

Too much political discussion in the United States about Israel/Palestine proceeds from the premise that Palestinians have no other interest than to destroy Israel and drive the Jews into the sea. Therefore, it is said, well-intentioned Israel has no viable negotiating partner for peace. The political reality on the ground does not conform to such a simple-minded tale of good vs. evil. Israeli hardliners in power have repeatedly rejected any basis for a viable Palestinian state. Indeed, Prime Minister Netanyahu’s qualified statement in support of a two-state solution in 2009 – which his American apologists repeatedly invoke to demonstrate his “moderate” bona fides – was characterized by a member of his own cabinet as “the spin of our lives.” In fact. Likud leaders have said unequivocally that no two-state deal is possible. And just three weeks ago, speaking at a press conference, Netanyahu said:

“I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan.”

As David Horovitz wrote in The Times of Israel:

“He wasn’t saying that he doesn’t support a two-state solution. He was saying that it’s impossible. This was not a new, dramatic change of stance by the prime minister. It was a new, dramatic exposition of his long-held stance.”

In other words, no independent Palestinian state. Period. Ever.

Arab leaders are accused *all the time* of making one set of (conciliatory) statements in front of some audiences in English, while revealing their (true) rejectionist feelings in front of others, in Arabic. To the extent that this is true, one could certainly say the same about Netanyahu – relatively conciliatory and reasonable-sounding statements for international audiences. And altogether different rhetoric for internal consumption. Bibi is, after all, a master – like many politicians – at speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

Since Palestine does not exist as a recognized independent state, there is no need for Israel’s rejectionists to call for Palestine’s “destruction.” But the consistent avowals of Israeli leaders – and the plain language of the party platforms that express their parties’ core beliefs – to prevent such a state from coming into being is not substantively different from the expressed desire of the Hamas Charter to reject Israel’s existence.

The beginnings of a more fair and balanced appreciation of the conflict would start with that acknowledgment.

http://www.juancole.com/2014/08/charter-destruction-palestinian.html

by Guest Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:46 pm

Never heard so many words saying absolutely nothing and ignoring the truth so slyly.

Israel to build 1,500 more homes in settlements
Housing minister says plan for units in West Bank and east Jerusalem is in response to new Palestinian unity government

5th June 2014

Israel's housing ministry has announced new plans for almost 1,500 new settlement housing units in the West Bank and east Jerusalem, described as a "fitting Zionist response" to the new Palestinian unity government, backed by the Islamic militant group Hamas.

The announcement by housing minister Uri Ariel was immediately condemned by chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat, who accused Israel of planning a "major escalation" in response to the new unity government, and by the US ambassador to Israel, Dan Shapiro.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/05/israel-build-more-homes-settlements

Settlement expansion

On 19 June 2011, Haaretz reported that the Israeli cabinet voted to revoke Defense Minister Ehud Barak's authority to veto new settlement construction in the West Bank, by transferring this authority from the Agriculture Ministry, headed by Barak ally Orit Noked, to the Prime Minister's office.[276]

In 2009, Prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said: "I have no intention of building new settlements in the West Bank... But like all the governments there have been until now, I will have to meet the needs of natural growth in the population. I will not be able to choke the settlements."[277] On 15 October 2009, he said the settlement row with the United States had been resolved.[278]

In April 2012, four illegal outposts were retroactively legalized by the Israeli government.[279] In June 2012, the Netanyahu government announced a plan to build 851 homes in five settlements: 300 units in Beit El and 551 units in other settlements.[280][281]

Amid peace negotiations that showed little signs of progress, Israel issued on 3 November 2013, tenders for 1,700 new homes for Jewish settlers. The plots were offered in nine settlements in areas Israel says it intends to keep in any peace deal with the Palestinians.[282] On 12 November, Peace Now revealed that the Construction and Housing Ministry had issued tenders for 24,000 more settler homes in the West Bank, including 4,000 in East Jerusalem.[283] 2,500 units were planned in Ma’aleh Adumim, some 9,000 in the Gush Etzion Region, and circa 12,000 in the Binyamin Region, including 1,200 homes in the E1 area in addition to 3,000 homes in previously frozen E1 projects.[284] Circa 15,000 homes of the 24,000 plan would be east of the West Bank Barrier and create the first new settlement blocs for two decades, and the first blocs ever outside the Barrier, far inside the West Bank.[285]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement#Settlement_expansion

So, because Fatah and Hamas had the audacity to form a Unity Government for Palestine, which Hamas agreed NOT to have a minister in, the Israeli Housing Minister decided they would STEAL MORE LAND TO GET BACK AT THEM.

by Irn Bru Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:04 am

Quill wrote:
We are beyond that point, Irn. I’m asking a different question: Without giving up my point that the government is not doing it, which department in the Israeli government do you allege is building these developments? You say it's not being done by private means. Well, which is it? .

Well we aren’t actually. You asked me why the settlements before going on to answer your own question in saying buffer zones are a logical military solution. I answered that question by showing you that they are not.. And just for the record I never said they were not being built by private means.
And your latest question isn’t a new one and has already been answered. The Israeli Government issue permits for the settlements to be built. It’s really quite simple to understand that and I’m wondering why you are having so much difficulty with it.

Quill wrote:Didge is passionate about the whole issue…and good for him. It’s one to get passionate about.

It certainly is Quill but Didge has been rather inconsistent and erratic with his contributions particularly in respect of his quite different responses to the concentration camp statements by the Israeli minister and a Jewish blogger who had also made reference to Gaza being a virtual concentration camp - night and day really wouldn’t you say?.

Quill wrote:You seem to be more concerned about the tone of my response than the truth of it. I am not Didge, much to my misfortune. He cares about what he is writing, and he writes some very good things. He hit the nail on the head what with posting the clip on why Israel occupies the land it does. As you see, I have copied it and reposted it myself.

I have no concerns about your tone so I don’t know where you got that from. Care to explain?

Quill wrote:I don’t get upset. I try to look at things dispassionately. It’s a waste of my time to get personal. I try to isolate the central core of an issue, and dispassionately ask questions that get to the answer.

Oh but you do and in your very first post on this thread you were busy and getting very personal when wailing away like a Banshee warrior to Ben about all this posse nonsense that you have been going on about for well on 2 years now. It’s easy to get upset and not realise it and always a good idea to reflect on what you have already said before coming out and saying something that contradicts any earlier contributions previously made. Something for you to learn in future I suppose.
.

Quill wrote:For example, I am asking one question right now. What is at the core of the dispute between the Islamic world and Israel? Everyone is hung up on the Hamas/Gaza aggression against Israel…and there are those who are trying to turn it around and accuse Israel back. But that’s starting the race halfway down the racetrack. Something went on before. .

You’re quite wrong there because It’s you that’s halfway down the track on much of this thread. I’m sure you will find that I have been focussing on the building of illegal settlements in the West Bank that has been going on for nearly 50 years now. You’ve even been contributing on that albeit with a denial that the Israeli government is in any way involved in that so I suppose that’s why you are indeed half way down the track by focussing so much on the current situation in Gaza. You really need to pay more attention to what is actually being discussed at any given time instead of continually falling back on what is happening now much of which is due to the historical building of illegal Israeli settlements.

Quill wrote:That’s what I mean about “Truths and half truths Quill.” You are only telling half the truth, if you begin with Hamas/Gaza’s attack on Israel. It’s only half the history. Consequently, you end up with only half-arguments. More to the point, you are not getting to the core. As I said in another post, you are playing ‘Wack-A-Mole.’ .

See, you’re wrong again because I’m not starting with Israel/Hamas Gaza’s attacks - that’s where you are - half way down the track with half truths – ‘Wack-a- Mole’. Do you see that now?

Quill wrote:You see, the intemperate words of some Israeli minister somewhere, pale in comparison to the real question. Why is this all happening? Who doesn’t like what? Hamas fires off missiles; Israel responds with the invasion; the whole world runs about like a bunch of wild banshees; nobody is in charge of the show. Nobody even knows what is the question.

And—to repeat myself once again—because I like the points made there—all of this is just a prelude for the next round. If we settle this crisis, we only catch our breath for the next crisis. And it’s because no one is in charge of the show.

So, let’s have less noise, and more responsibility. It seems to be de rigueur nowadays for Muslims to deny they ever said they want Israel to be driven into the sea. http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2009/05/07/jews-driven-into-the-sea-at-last/ They disclaim that sentiment today, and on the surface, but don’t bet it won’t return if the US stops supporting Israel. If Israel showed one ounce of weakness, anywhere, you can bet that you would hear it again. .

The words of the Israeli minister were in the form of a very detailed statement with a solution that involved concentration camps and nothing like what may have been said between two people corresponding in a time of war . That’s not a a nice scenario for the Palestinians that would have to sign up and agree to live under Jewish rule or accept a repatriation fee to be shipped out somewhere against their will. Failing that they would probably be shipped out anyway. Bit BNPish isn’t it?

Quill wrote:In closing, let me borrow the words of the above cited web of Commentary:
Commentary wrote:There are those who will see this map as proof that a two-state solution is impossible. But if the Palestinians ever decide that they actually want to live in peace alongside Israel, there is little doubt — and as proven by past Israeli offers of statehood and territorial concessions to the Palestinians — such a state would easily come into existence. The obstacle to such a state is not the Jews who currently live in parts of the West Bank. It is that the Palestinians and the terror groups that lead them are less interested in a Palestinian state — no matter what its borders might be — than they are in continuing their war against Israel. The continued demand that any Palestinian state must be devoid of Jews and that small isolated Jewish communities inside the West Bank must be forcibly uprooted demonstrates their bad faith on the question of peaceful coexistence.

That's pretty much the way I see it. Someone over there wants it to go on and on and on... .

Your summing up is pretty much what it’s like listening to someone who has been droning on for ages coming to the end of those awful PowerPoint presentations that were used years ago having said nothing and achieved nothing. Good try but a bit of a snore really.

by Original Quill Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:05 pm

You don't want this conflict to stop, do you Irn? You want it to go on. Is this some sort of career for you? Are book sales a little off?

Oh, I don't mean this local event started by Hamas. I mean the whole past 60-70 years. What do you think is going to happen?

Iran and the Islamic community of nations will continue to harass Israel with missiles, and the occasional terrorist bombing or shooting, not to mention the mini-wars.. Israel will systematically crush the conflicts and tighten its grip. The world will weep and moan, and do nothing.

GWB, the Republican Neo-Cons and the puppy dog British, have assured that the world community is too cowed to do anything. Who wants another 10-year war that accomplishes nothing except a $17-trillion debt?

I'm almost to the point where I don't care. The sooner Iran and Israel get at it, the sooner it will be all over. Fun to watch, I guess. But hardly more important than that as long as the participants don't want anything more themselves.

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:39 pm

See nice friendly happy clappy Palestinians have broken the cease fire again.....

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Rocket-sirens-sound-in-southern-Israel-hours-before-end-of-temporary-cease-fire-371015

And quill, it was our labour govt who misled our nation into an illegal war in Iraq.

I keep telling you that our labour have more in common with your republicans.

by Guest Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:11 pm

Palestinians and Israelis agree to new truce
Palestinian negotiators say that a ceasefire agreement with Israel will be extended for another five days.

sraeli and Palestinian negotiators have agreed to extend a ceasefire in Gaza for another five days after failing to reach a long term agreement in Cairo-mediated talks, Palestinian and Egyptian officials said on Wednesday.

A previously agreed three-day truce was set to expire less than an hour afterwards, at midnight local time (2100 GMT).

"We have agreed to give more time for the negotiations," Azzam al-Ahmed, head of the Palestinian delegation in Cairo said on Wednesday, saying the extra time would be a further five days.

An Egyptian official said Israel also accepted the proposal. Israel had earlier said it would back an extension of the lull.

Earlier on Wednesday, Israeli police said a rocket from Gaza had landed in southern Israeli, hours before the truce was supposed to come to an end, the Reuters news agency reported. However, Hamas denied it was responsible for firing it.

Nearly 2,000 Palestinians have been killed since Israel launched its Gaza offensive on July 8 to halt cross-border rocket fire. On the Israeli side, 67 people have been killed, 64 of them soldiers.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/08/palestinians-israelis-agree-new-truce-2014813203459774465.html

by eddie Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:34 pm

Well that's good news for now.

by Guest Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:36 pm

Certainly is Eddie.

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:16 pm

Still no condemnation of Palestinians firing rockets at civilians.... this time during a cease fire that could have sparked a whole load of fresh retaliation putting even more Palestinian civilian lives at risk....

Seems they hate Israel more than they love their own people....

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:43 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Still no condemnation of Palestinians firing rockets at civilians.... this time during a cease fire that could have sparked a whole load of fresh retaliation putting even more Palestinian civilian lives at risk....

Seems they hate Israel more than they love their own people....

And no condemnation of the THEFT OF PALESTINIAN LAND that helped start it in the first place

Selective outrage

ps it would be called standing your ground in America

by veya_victaous Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:23 am

Korben_Dallas wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Still no condemnation of Palestinians firing rockets at civilians.... this time during a cease fire that could have sparked a whole load of fresh retaliation putting even more Palestinian civilian lives at risk....

Seems they hate Israel more than they love their own people....
And no condemnation of the THEFT OF PALESTINIAN LAND that helped start it in the first place

Selective outrage

ps it would be called standing your ground in America

YES +1000
Hypocrisy at it's finest Rolling Eyes

An American Can Shot a thief dead without consequence but a Palestinian tries to stop someone stealing their land and somehow THEY are in the wrong

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:32 am

Korben_Dallas wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Still no condemnation of Palestinians firing rockets at civilians.... this time during a cease fire that could have sparked a whole load of fresh retaliation putting even more Palestinian civilian lives at risk....

Seems they hate Israel more than they love their own people....
And no condemnation of the THEFT OF PALESTINIAN LAND that helped start it in the first place

Selective outrage

ps it would be called standing your ground in America

Theft?

Try putting things into real facts, Palestine started and have continued war since Israels creation and to use poor excuses for committing war crimes, is not justifiable.
So are you telling me there is an excuse to commit war crimes now?
You do realise indiscriminate rocket attacks are war crimes?
Also people have condemned Israel for indiscriminate shelling and for innocent loss of life, yet we rarely see anyone condemn Hamas, that is the hypocrisy by some here.
Countries gain and lose land in wars, so it is down to who starts a war in this case Palestine and who loses, again Palestine. If they had accepted in the 1948 ruling would there be the problems there are today?
No

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:15 am

Didge wrote:
Korben_Dallas wrote:
And no condemnation of the THEFT OF PALESTINIAN LAND that helped start it in the first place

Selective outrage

ps it would be called standing your ground in America

Theft?

Try putting things into real facts, Palestine started and have continued war since Israels creation and to use poor excuses for committing war crimes, is not justifiable.
So are you telling me there is an excuse to commit war crimes now?
You do realise indiscriminate rocket attacks are war crimes?
Also people have condemned Israel for indiscriminate shelling and for innocent loss of life, yet we rarely see anyone condemn Hamas, that is the hypocrisy by some here.
Countries gain and lose land in wars, so it is down to who starts a war in this case Palestine and who loses, again Palestine. If they had accepted in the 1948 ruling would there be the problems there are today?
No

n 1947, the United Nations partitioned Historic Palestine, giving 55% to the Jewish population and 45% to the Palestinian population. The indigenous Palestinians rejected the division of the land on which they had lived and farmed for centuries.

At the time of partition, the Jewish population owned less than 6% of Palestine.

All done to appease a people who were persecuted by Hitler

So yes, if they had accepted the division of their country, it all would be fine

But i guess if someone was given your land you would just accept it and nuckel down....and when i started to take more of that land of you you would be fine about it no problem didge would just keep quiet about it and do nothing ...........yea right

Funny that when Russia annexes a country the world condemns it, but when the Palestinians have their land taken your fine about it

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:21 am

And war crimes ?
How many Israelis are dead compared to Palestinians deaths that's a war crime

Hamas is allegedly using human shields, but they bomb them anyway, not very fucking affective is it not like the "iron dome that shoots most of Hamas' rockets out of the sky

Cull the population, so you can take more land in the future that's a war crime

n 1948 Israel declared its "independence," but chose not to name its borders (well thats handy then )(Israel may be the only nation in the world with undeclared borders). Following its founding war of 1947-49 Israel came into existence on 78 percent of Palestine, a percentage it has steadily increased in subsequent years, a process that continues today.

Between the time of partition and the declaration of Israel on 78% of historic Palestine in 1948, the newly formed Jewish state had depopulated (through massacres, expulsion orders, and fear tactics) over 400 villages and made refugees of at least 726,000 Palestinians (see U.N.).

As Moshe Dayan put it, “Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist, not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either.”

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/maps.html

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:27 am

In 1967, Israel occupied the remaining 22% of historic Palestine: the West Bank and Gaza (as well as large sections of Syria and Egypt). Since then Israel has transferred many of its citizens to Jewish “settlements,” (colonies, which are illegal according to the fourth Geneva Convention). Today 40% of the West Bank is off-limits to Palestinians, as they are not allowed to live in Israeli settlements, drive on Israeli-only roads connecting these settlements, or even live or travel through “security zones,” surrounding the settlements.

Soon all Palestinians will have to wear a sign on their sleeves.... Now where have I seen that before

Basically didge your a collaborator, you ignore the true facts and expouse your own revisionist propaganda just like Israel

so you support Israel taking land that doesn't belong to them .......no suprise there then

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:16 am

Korben_Dallas wrote:In 1967, Israel occupied the remaining 22% of historic Palestine: the West Bank and Gaza (as well as large sections of Syria and Egypt). Since then Israel has transferred many of its citizens to Jewish “settlements,” (colonies, which are illegal according to the fourth Geneva Convention). Today 40% of the West Bank is off-limits to Palestinians, as they are not allowed to live in Israeli settlements, drive on Israeli-only roads connecting these settlements, or even live or travel through “security zones,” surrounding the settlements.

Soon all Palestinians will have to wear a sign on their sleeves.... Now where have I seen that before

Basically didge your a collaborator, you ignore the true facts and expouse your own revisionist propaganda just like Israel

so you support Israel taking land that doesn't belong to them .......no suprise there then

Again what a load of horseshit and missing all the facts spinning a lefty load of babble.
Germany lost territory both in WW1 and WW2 they have never got it back, the same with Poland and countless other nations, where the demographics has changed and you do not see them attacking each other claiming the land is theirs do you? Even the Poles were on the winning side.
Only a fucking idiot would make comparisons to how the Jews were actually treated by the Nazi;s which of course you are doing by claiming having to wear a sign on their sleeves, maybe you can tell me why 20% of the population of Israel being Arabs have never had to?
The only collaborator is yourself as seen to Islamic extremism, Palestine went to war from 1948 and lost land, then again countless conflicts since, you would think they would learn but no and yet you excuse every time they have been the aggressor.
I support Israel using a military defense strategy to protect its land and citizens, which means protecting Muslims, Druse, Christians, Jews etc
So please spare the old pathetic guilt attempt card, this is all some of you lefties seem able to play, where it always falls flatter than a pancake
I also love how you missed out all the fundamental parts of where Palestine, has since and before Israel's creation never accepting this, even though other nations have had to and have constantly gone to war and attacked them, showing the fact they stupidly went to war and lost, not once but many times, where in between they have always committed terrorism. You see I post many links, but have no need, because I have far greater knowledge on this than you will ever begin to know dear chap.
You also miss out the fact that 600,000 to 800,000 Jews were displaced from Arab lands for no crime, but because Israel won against all odds against countless Arab nations attacking them, not accepting the UN resolution, of course you are quite on this and the fact displaced Palestinians were fundamental in starting the Lebanese civil war, where one million Lebanese were displaced, all facts you are silent on, which is no surprise, of course we see you protesting for the Lebanese and Jews to get their lands and property back?
Nope, showing your complete hypocrisy

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:43 am

Didge wrote:
Korben_Dallas wrote:In 1967, Israel occupied the remaining 22% of historic Palestine: the West Bank and Gaza (as well as large sections of Syria and Egypt). Since then Israel has transferred many of its citizens to Jewish “settlements,” (colonies, which are illegal according to the fourth Geneva Convention). Today 40% of the West Bank is off-limits to Palestinians, as they are not allowed to live in Israeli settlements, drive on Israeli-only roads connecting these settlements, or even live or travel through “security zones,” surrounding the settlements.

Soon all Palestinians will have to wear a sign on their sleeves.... Now where have I seen that before

Basically didge your a collaborator, you ignore the true facts and expouse your own revisionist propaganda just like Israel

so you support Israel taking land that doesn't belong to them .......no suprise there then

Again what a load of horseshit and missing all the facts spinning a lefty load of babble.
Germany lost territory both in WW1 and WW2 they have never got it back, the same with Poland and countless other nations, where the demographics has changed and you do not see them attacking each other claiming the land is theirs do you? Even the Poles were on the winning side.
Only a fucking idiot would make comparisons to how the Jews were actually treated by the Nazi;s which of course you are doing by claiming having to wear a sign on their sleeves, maybe you can tell me why 20% of the population of Israel being Arabs have never had to?
The only collaborator is yourself as seen to Islamic extremism, Palestine went to war from 1948 and lost land, then again countless conflicts since, you would think they would learn but no and yet you excuse every time they have been the aggressor.
I support Israel using a military defense strategy to protect its land and citizens, which means protecting Muslims, Druse, Christians, Jews etc
So please spare the old pathetic guilt attempt card, this is all some of you lefties seem able to play, where it always falls flatter than a pancake
I also love how you missed out all the fundamental parts of where Palestine, has since and before Israel's creation never accepting this, even though other nations have had to and have constantly gone to war and attacked them, showing the fact they stupidly went to war and lost, not once but many times, where in between they have always committed terrorism. You see I post many links, but have no need, because I have far greater knowledge on this than you will ever begin to know dear chap.
You also miss out the fact that 600,000 to 800,000 Jews were displaced from Arab lands for no crime, but because Israel won against all odds against countless Arab nations attacking them, not accepting the UN resolution, of course you are quite on this and the fact displaced Palestinians were fundamental in starting the Lebanese civil war, where one million Lebanese were displaced, all facts you are silent on, which is no surprise, of course we see you protesting for the Lebanese and Jews to get their lands and property back?
Nope, showing your complete hypocrisy

and only a self righteous, pompous up his own arse all ways thinks he is right arsehole like you talks to people that way
i am sick to fucking death of your attitude your nothing more than a abusive twat so lets see how you like being treated that way you fucking arsehole
I tried my best to discuss thing, but you all ways with the personal comments and name calling
well fuck you

dick head

by gerber Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:52 am

Korben_Dallas wrote:In 1967, Israel occupied the remaining 22% of historic Palestine: the West Bank and Gaza (as well as large sections of Syria and Egypt). Since then Israel has transferred many of its citizens to Jewish “settlements,” (colonies, which are illegal according to the fourth Geneva Convention). Today 40% of the West Bank is off-limits to Palestinians, as they are not allowed to live in Israeli settlements, drive on Israeli-only roads connecting these settlements, or even live or travel through “security zones,” surrounding the settlements.

Soon all Palestinians will have to wear a sign on their sleeves.... Now where have I seen that before

Basically didge your a collaborator, you ignore the true facts and expouse your own revisionist propaganda just like Israel

so you support Israel taking land that doesn't belong to them .......no suprise there then

The western world supports Israel and the Jews. Outraged at how they were massacred and marked in WW2 but are letting them do the exact same thing without much condemnation. Until Israel realises they have to return the land back to the Palestinians without any restraints the situation will carry on. I do not see the Gaza residents giving in now. They have lost so much and to return to prisoner lifestyle seems impossible. The fishermen cannot even catch fish from the sea

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:09 am

The real question is why does didge support the killing of so many innocent people he actually seems to revel in the losses
Hamas fire rockets into Israel, he will bleat and yes, they do

BUt How many Palestinians lives for one Israel life 100/1 200/1 more its not like they're actually killing the people that are shooting the rockets instead they are insentiviseing the Palestinians who are left to take up arms

Then he will bleat the age old bleat so why don't you go and fight or you're a terrorist supporter even asking the same to an old lady
Why doesn't he move to Israel if he loves tem so much he could be a spokesperson for Israel why don't you do that didge

And if hating what Israel is doing to Palestine makes me a "jew"hater or a terrorist sympathizer
Then so fucking be it
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
It all depends on your point of view

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:11 am

gerber wrote:
Korben_Dallas wrote:In 1967, Israel occupied the remaining 22% of historic Palestine: the West Bank and Gaza (as well as large sections of Syria and Egypt). Since then Israel has transferred many of its citizens to Jewish “settlements,” (colonies, which are illegal according to the fourth Geneva Convention). Today 40% of the West Bank is off-limits to Palestinians, as they are not allowed to live in Israeli settlements, drive on Israeli-only roads connecting these settlements, or even live or travel through “security zones,” surrounding the settlements.

Soon all Palestinians will have to wear a sign on their sleeves.... Now where have I seen that before

Basically didge your a collaborator, you ignore the true facts and expouse your own revisionist propaganda just like Israel

so you support Israel taking land that doesn't belong to them .......no suprise there then

The western world supports Israel and the Jews. Outraged at how they were massacred and marked in WW2 but are letting them do the exact same thing without much condemnation. Until Israel realises they have to return the land back to the Palestinians without any restraints the situation will carry on. I do not see the Gaza residents giving in now. They have lost so much and to return to prisoner lifestyle seems impossible. The fishermen cannot even catch fish from the sea

Nail on the head

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:33 am

gerber wrote:
Korben_Dallas wrote:In 1967, Israel occupied the remaining 22% of historic Palestine: the West Bank and Gaza (as well as large sections of Syria and Egypt). Since then Israel has transferred many of its citizens to Jewish “settlements,” (colonies, which are illegal according to the fourth Geneva Convention). Today 40% of the West Bank is off-limits to Palestinians, as they are not allowed to live in Israeli settlements, drive on Israeli-only roads connecting these settlements, or even live or travel through “security zones,” surrounding the settlements.

Soon all Palestinians will have to wear a sign on their sleeves.... Now where have I seen that before

Basically didge your a collaborator, you ignore the true facts and expouse your own revisionist propaganda just like Israel

so you support Israel taking land that doesn't belong to them .......no suprise there then

The western world supports Israel and the Jews. Outraged at how they were massacred and marked in WW2 but are letting them do the exact same thing without much condemnation. Until Israel realises they have to return the land back to the Palestinians without any restraints the situation will carry on. I do not see the Gaza residents giving in now. They have lost so much and to return to prisoner lifestyle seems impossible. The fishermen cannot even catch fish from the sea

The west in general doesn't, the USA however does.

When Israel invaded Gaza the USA was the only western nation not to condemn the action or urge an immediate cease fire. The USA was actually embarrasingly biased in favour of Israel because jews have a large influence over American politics compared to other western nations.

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:26 am

gerber wrote:
Korben_Dallas wrote:In 1967, Israel occupied the remaining 22% of historic Palestine: the West Bank and Gaza (as well as large sections of Syria and Egypt). Since then Israel has transferred many of its citizens to Jewish “settlements,” (colonies, which are illegal according to the fourth Geneva Convention). Today 40% of the West Bank is off-limits to Palestinians, as they are not allowed to live in Israeli settlements, drive on Israeli-only roads connecting these settlements, or even live or travel through “security zones,” surrounding the settlements.

Soon all Palestinians will have to wear a sign on their sleeves.... Now where have I seen that before

Basically didge your a collaborator, you ignore the true facts and expouse your own revisionist propaganda just like Israel

so you support Israel taking land that doesn't belong to them .......no suprise there then

The western world supports Israel and the Jews. Outraged at how they were massacred and marked in WW2 but are letting them do the exact same thing without much condemnation. Until Israel realises they have to return the land back to the Palestinians without any restraints the situation will carry on. I do not see the Gaza residents giving in now. They have lost so much and to return to prisoner lifestyle seems impossible. The fishermen cannot even catch fish from the sea

++++++++++++++++++

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:31 am

Korben_Dallas wrote:The real question is why does didge support the killing of so many innocent people he actually seems to revel in the losses
Hamas fire rockets into Israel, he will bleat and yes, they do

BUt How many Palestinians lives for one Israel life 100/1 200/1 more its not like they're actually killing the people that are shooting the rockets instead they are insentiviseing the Palestinians who are left to take up arms

Then he will bleat the age old bleat so why don't you go and fight or you're a terrorist supporter even asking the same to an old lady
Why doesn't he move to Israel if he loves tem so much he could be a spokesperson for Israel why don't you do that didge

And if hating what Israel is doing to Palestine makes me a "jew"hater or a terrorist sympathizer
Then so fucking be it
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
It all depends on your point of view

Apparently Gaza and the West Bank should just hand it all over and walk away, if they don't and they fight back, they are terrorists. The real terrorists are the IDF, and have been for years. Only a few weeks ago they beat up a Palestinian boy on the ground, only it turned out he was Palestinian/American so they quickly gave him back again instead of keeping him in prison as they do with other Palestinian boys.

Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process - Page 5 Tareqabukhdeirinjury

Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process - Page 5 Tareqabukhdeirinjury

by scrat Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:45 am

''And cursed be the man who says:
Avenge! No such revenge — revenge for
the blood of a little child — has yet been
devised by Satan. Let the blood
through the abyss! Let the blood seep
down into the depths of darkness, and
eat away there, in the dark, and breach
all the rotting foundations of the earth.''

While Israel continues to accuse the Hamas movement and its leadership of being responsible for the abduction, Palestinian security forces attribute the abduction to the Qawasmeh clan of Hebron specifically.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/06/qawasmeh-clan-hebron-hamas-leadership-mahmoud-abbas.html##ixzz3AMFYRqoW

"On October 13, 2004, Imad Qawasameh was arrested by IDF forces, after intelligence was provided by the Shin Bet. According to witnesses, Imad surrendered immediately after an IDF Caterpillar D9 armoured bulldozer started to demolish his house.

In 2011, the IDF broke into Omar Qawasameh's home, put a gun to his wife's head and shot him dead in his sleep. Subsequently, the Israeli army released a statement acknowledging the Qawasameh killing was unintended. An Israeli military spokesman told the AFP news agency: "There is no indication that [al-Qawasmeh] was involved in any terror activity at any stage and therefore we regret the incident."

The Qawasameh are the main suppliers of militants to the Hebron cells of Hamas.

Marwan Qawasameh is suspected of being one of two terrorists involved in the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teens on June 12, 2014."

So are shin bet actually handling these cells?

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:59 am

Would not surprise me in the least Scrat,

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:03 am

And the people they killed because the Israeli soldier went missing:

The 'Hannibal Directive': Did the IDF Kill Hadar Goldin?

August 10, 2014
Ruth Margalit / The New Yorker & Dell Cameron / The DailyDot.com

After an Israeli soldier named Hadar Goldin was reported captured by Hamas, Israel's Defense Forces enacted a controversial measure called the Hannibal Directive. Opening fire at the area where Goldin was last seen, the assault killed 70 Palestinians -- and may have killed Goldin as well. The Directive's message was clear: "A dead soldier is preferable to a captive one." At the same time, the Israeli public is told that "no cost will be spared" to secure a captured soldier's release.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/hadar-goldin-hannibal-directive

Hadar Goldin and the Hannibal Directive
Ruth Margalit / The New Yorker

(August 6, 2014) -- Buried deep inside a Times report last weekend about Hadar Goldin, the Israeli soldier who was reported captured by Hamas, in the southern Gaza Strip, and then declared dead, was the following paragraph:

The circumstances surrounding his death remained cloudy. A military spokeswoman declined to say whether Lieutenant Goldin had been killed along with two comrades by a suicide bomb one of the militants exploded, or later by Israel's assault on the area to hunt for him; she also refused to answer whether his remains had been recovered.

Just what those circumstances were began to filter out early this week, and they attest to deep contradictions in the Israeli military -- and in Israeli culture at large.

A temporary ceasefire went into effect last Friday morning at eight. At nine-fifteen, soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces headed toward a house, in the city of Rafah, that served as an entry point to a tunnel reportedly leading into Israel. As the IDF troops advanced, a Hamas militant emerged from the tunnel and opened fire. Two soldiers were killed. A third, Goldin, was captured -- whether dead or alive is unclear -- and taken into the tunnel.

What is clear is that after Goldin was reported missing, the IDF enacted a highly controversial measure known as the Hannibal Directive, firing at the area where Goldin was last seen in order to stop Hamas from taking him captive. As a result, according to Palestinian sources, seventy Palestinians were killed. By Sunday, Goldin, too, had been declared dead.

Opinions differ over how this protocol, which remained a military secret until 2003, came to be known as Hannibal. There are indications that it was named for the Carthaginian general, who chose to poison himself rather than fall captive to the Romans, but IDF officials insist that a computer generated the name at random.

Whatever its provenance, the moniker seems chillingly apt. Developed by three senior IDF commanders, in 1986, following the capture of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah, the directive established the steps the military must take in the event of a soldier's abduction. Its stated goal is to prevent Israeli troops from falling into enemy hands, "even at the cost of hurting or wounding our soldiers."

While normal IDF procedures forbid soldiers from firing in the general direction of their fellow-troops, including attacking a getaway vehicle, such procedures, according to the Hannibal Directive, are to be waived in the case of an abduction: "Everything must be done to stop the vehicle and prevent it from escaping."

Although the order specifies that only selective light-arms fire should be used in such cases, the message behind it is resounding. When a soldier has been abducted, not only are all targets legitimate -- including, as we saw over the weekend, ambulances -- but it's permissible, and even implicitly advisable, for soldiers to fire on their own. For more than a decade, military censors blocked journalists from reporting on the protocol, apparently because they feared it would demoralize the Israeli public.

In 2003, an Israeli doctor who had heard of the directive while serving as a reservist, in Lebanon, began advocating for its annulment, leading to its declassification. That year, a Haaretz investigation of the directive concluded that "from the point of view of the army, a dead soldier is better than a captive soldier who himself suffers and forces the state to release thousands of captives in order to obtain his release."

For years, Israeli soldiers on the battlefield had hotly debated the directive and its use. At least one battalion commander, according to the Haaretz investigation, refused to brief his soldiers on it, arguing that it was "flagrantly illegal." And a rabbi, asked by a soldier about the order's religious aspect, advised him to disobey it. Major General Yossi Peled, one of the commanders who drafted the directive, told Haaretz that its purpose was to assert how far the military could go to prevent abductions.

"I wouldn't drop a one-ton bomb on the vehicle, but I would hit it with a tank shell that could make a big hole in the vehicle, which would make it possible for anyone who was not hit directly -- if the vehicle did not blow up -- to emerge in one piece," Peled said. It's understandable that soldiers would scratch their heads over formulations such as these.

To be clear, there is no evidence that Goldin was killed by friendly fire. But military officials did confirm that commanders on the ground had activated the Hannibal Directive and ordered "massive fire" -- not for the first time since Operation Protective Edge began, on July 8th. (One week into the ground offensive, in the central Gaza Strip, forces reportedly enacted the protocol when another soldier, Guy Levy, was believed missing.) Since the directive's inception, the IDF is known to have used it only a handful of Times, including in the case of Gilad Shalit.

The order came too late for Shalit and did not prevent his abduction -- or his eventual release, in 2011, in exchange for 1,027 Palestinian prisoners. That year, as part of the military's inquiry into the circumstances leading to Shalit's capture, the IDF's Chief of Staff, Benny Gantz, modified the directive. It now allows field commanders to act without awaiting confirmation from their superiors; at the same time, the directive's language was tempered to make clear that it does not call for the willful killing of captured soldiers.

In changing the wording of the protocol, Gantz introduced an ethical principle known as the "double-effect doctrine," which states that a bad result (the killing of a captive soldier) is morally permissible only as a side effect of promoting a good action (stopping his captors).

Whether soldiers have heeded this change in language, and how they now choose to interpret the directive, is difficult to assess. If past experience is any indication, the military hierarchy's interpretation remains unequivocal.

During Israel's last operation in Gaza, in 2011, one Golani commander was caught on tape telling his unit: "No soldier in the 51st Battalion will be kidnapped, at any price or under any condition. Even if it means that he has to detonate his own grenade along with those who try to capture him. Even if it means that his unit will now have to fire at the getaway car."

On Sunday, a decade after its initial investigation of the Hannibal Directive, Haaretz revisited the subject with a piece by Anshel Pfeffer that tried to explain why, despite the procedure's morally questionable nature, there hasn't been significant opposition to it. Pfeffer wrote:

Perhaps the most deeply engrained reason that Israelis innately understand the needs for the Hannibal Directive is the military ethos of never leaving wounded men on the battlefield, which became the spirit following the War of Independence, when hideously mutilated bodies of Israeli soldiers were recovered. So Hannibal has stayed a fact of military life and the directive activated more than once during this current campaign.

Ronen Bergman, author of the book By Any Means Necessary, which examines Israel's history of dealing with captive soldiers, further explained this rationale in a recent radio interview: "There is a disproportionate sensitivity among Israelis [on the issue of captive soldiers] that is hard to describe to foreigners." Bergman traced this sensitivity back to Maimonides, the medieval Torah scholar, who wrote: "There is no greater Mitzvah than redeeming captives."

This line of argument, while historically true, is worth pausing over -- if only to unpack the moral paradox within it. In essence, what this "military ethos" means is that Israel sanctifies the lives of its soldiers so much, and would be willing to pay such an exorbitant price for their release, that it will do everything in its power to prevent such a scenario -- including putting those same soldiers' lives at risk (not to mention wreaking havoc on the surrounding population).

This is the dubious situation that Israel finds itself in: signaling to the military that a dead soldier is preferable to a captive one, while at the same time signaling to the Israeli public that no cost will be spared to secure a captured soldier's release.

(It's worth recalling that, three years after Shalit was traded for more than a thousand Palestinian prisoners, the captive US Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl was traded for five Taliban prisoners. This isn't to suggest that Israel cares more about its troops than the United States does, but rather that no crime is greater, in the eyes of Israelis, than the kidnapping of "our boys.")

Daniel Nisman, who runs a geopolitical-security consultancy, told the Times that the Hannibal Directive "sounds terrible, but you have to consider it within the framework of the Shalit deal. That was five years of torment for this country, where every newscast would end with how many days Shalit had been in captivity. It's like a wound that just never heals."

On Tuesday, as a seventy-two-hour ceasefire went into effect and the IDF pulled its ground forces out of Gaza, I spoke to Assaf Sharon, the academic director of Molad, a progressive Israeli think tank that focusses on social policy. While he accepted Nisman's logic, he questioned the Hannibal Directive's social ramifications.

"I don't know that you can draft clear-cut rules that would apply to any situation, but I do think that a certain risk of a captured soldier's life should be allowed. I think the real problem starts with the hysterical discourse, of the kind that says, â€˜This must be stopped at any cost.' From there, the path to the horrors we've seen over the last few days, in Rafah, is a short one. What we've seen wasn't only putting a soldier's life at risk but intentionally targeting anything that moved -- whether relevant or irrelevant."

Sharon added that the mixed consequences of the directive are typical of the behavior that now characterizes the Israeli public at large. "On the one hand, we are willing to risk soldiers' lives recklessly and without need, but on the other hand we have zero tolerance for the price that this might entail."

With sixty-seven Israelis and more than eighteen hundred Palestinians killed, ground forces have completed their withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. The Hannibal Directive will soon be tucked away, along with the worn bulletproof vests, until the next time the military wades into hostile territory. But its moral implications will linger. It's time for the painful reconstruction, both in Gaza and in Israeli society, to slowly start.

Israeli Police Official Refutes Claim
That Hamas Kidnapped Israeli Teens
Dell Cameron / The DailyDot.com

(July 25, 2014) -- The recent explosion of violence in Gaza may have been initially sparked by false or inaccurate claims, according to Israeli police.

The ongoing conflict began last month when three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped from a Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank. Their bodies were later discovered in a field outside the city of Hebron. Before police were able to determine who was responsible, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu placed blame for the tragic deaths squarely on Hamas, Gaza's elected political leadership -- an accusation that may prove to be false.

On Friday, Chief Inspector Micky Rosenfeld, foreign press spokesman for the Israel Police, reportedly told BBC journalist Jon Donnisonhe that the men responsible for murders were not acting on orders of Hamas leadership. Instead, he said, they are part of a "lone cell." Further, Inspector Rosenfeld told Donnison that if Hamas' leadership had ordered the kidnapping, "they'd have known about it in advance

Naftali Fraenkel, 16, Gilad Shaer, 16, and Eyal Yifrah, 19, were kidnapped on June 12 from Gush Etzion, an Israeli settlement south of Jerusalem. After an exhaustive search that lasted over two weeks, security forces discovered the boys' bodies in a field just north of Hebron, close to where they were abducted. The night of their disappearance, one of the boys called a police hotline and whispered, "They kidnapped me." Police speculate that he may have been caught, leading the perpetrators to kill the teenage boys.

Husam Dofsh, a former member of Hamas, was arrested on suspicion of his involvement on July 5. After learning that he was a suspect, Dofsh called the Times of Israel and insisted he'd taken no part in the kidnapping. "I saw online, and people also told me, that I was tied to the mess, but I did not kidnap and didn't do anything. I just want to continue my life," Dofsh told reporters.

During the course of Israel's investigation, some 400 Palestinians were arrested and up to 10 others were killed. Among those detained were Aziz Duwaik, the speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council and West Bank-based member of Hamas; and Mahmoud al-Khatib, a Hamas legislator was also reportedly abducted by the IDF during a dawn raid in the city of Bethlehem.

Israel's crackdown in the West Bank instigated Hamas to begin firing rockets into Israel -- a move that quickly escalated the conflict.

In early July, several members or activists connected to Hamas were killed, including a 14-year-old boy, which led the group to intensified their rocket attacks. Although there were no resulting deaths, the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) began successive airstrikes on the Gaza Strip.

"Hamas is responsible, and Hamas will pay," Netanyahu said in reference to the kidnapping. However, Inspector Rosenfeld's statements, along with a number of reports concerning the identities of known police suspects, seem to indicate that Hamas leadership was not involved in the vicious crime.

The two more-likely suspects are Amer Abu Aysha and Marwan Kawasme, who have been missing from their homes since the night of the kidnapping. Police found cellphones and prepared food caches in their homes. Both had recently opened bank accounts in their wive's names. Palestinian security forces reported that Abu Aysha and Kawasme were missing to the Israelis the day after the kidnapping occurred, according to Al Monitor.

"That was the first clue in the investigation and the reason why Israel pointed an accusatory finger at the Hamas infrastructure in Hebron," wrote Shlomi Eldar, a veteran journalist who has covered the Palestinian Authority for the past two decades.

Abu Aysha and Kawasme are known members of the Qawasameh tribe, according to Palestinian security forces. While members of Hebron-based Qawasameh clan identify with Hamas, they have a history of undermining its efforts to end violent conflicts with Israel.

In 2003, for instance, the family sent two suicide bombers to blow up a bus in Jerusalem after a tahadiyeh (ceasefire) had been successfully negotiated between Israeli and Palestinian fighters, which was endorsed by Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin.

At the time of writing, a reported 848 Palestinians and 35 Israelis have been killed, including 208 children in Gaza, since July 8 when Israel launched Operation Protective Edge.

A number of Middle East journalists have written articles accusing the Israeli government of politicide -- launching Israel into renewed conflict with Hamas in order to sabotage the formation of the unified Palestinian government that it so adamantly opposed.

Vanetia Rainey, a Lebanon-based correspondent for The Week, wrote: "Israel must have known that [the] Palestinian Authority would not want to be seen to condone violence and would have to cooperate with the campaign of raids, something Hamas has been sharply critical of, calling it â€˜harmful to Palestinian reconciliation'."

This week, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas backed Hamas' conditions for a ceasefire.

"The Gaza demands of stopping the aggression and lifting the blockade in all its forms are the demands of the entire Palestinian people and they represent the goal that the Palestinian leadership has dedicated all its power to achieve," he said.

The killing of 15 women and children by the Israel Defense Force at a UN elementary school in Beit Hanoun appears to be unifying Palestinians, but not through a shared interest in diplomacy. Roughly 10,000 protesters in the West Bank marched on Jerusalem Thursday after the school bombing. Two were killed and hundreds injured when the march clashed with Israeli police near the Qalandiya refugee camp.

On Friday, Hamas called for a third intifada and Abbas called for a "Day of Rage" marked with increased protests. "This is your opportunity," a Hamas spokesperson said in response to the protests.

If the reported findings of the Israeli Police hold up and Hamas is officially cleared of any wrongdoing in the case of the three kidnapped Israeli teens, Netanyahu and the Israeli government may have to explain why a massive military operation, with an 80 percent rate of civilian casualties, was instigated under a false premise. And if violence in the West Bank continues to spread, the IDF may find itself divided on two fronts.

Posted in accordance with Title 17, Section 107, US Code, for noncommercial, educational purposes.

http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/know/read.php?itemid=15276

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:28 pm

Korben_Dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:

Again what a load of horseshit and missing all the facts spinning a lefty load of babble.
Germany lost territory both in WW1 and WW2 they have never got it back, the same with Poland and countless other nations, where the demographics has changed and you do not see them attacking each other claiming the land is theirs do you? Even the Poles were on the winning side.
Only a fucking idiot would make comparisons to how the Jews were actually treated by the Nazi;s which of course you are doing by claiming having to wear a sign on their sleeves, maybe you can tell me why 20% of the population of Israel being Arabs have never had to?
The only collaborator is yourself as seen to Islamic extremism, Palestine went to war from 1948 and lost land, then again countless conflicts since, you would think they would learn but no and yet you excuse every time they have been the aggressor.
I support Israel using a military defense strategy to protect its land and citizens, which means protecting Muslims, Druse, Christians, Jews etc
So please spare the old pathetic guilt attempt card, this is all some of you lefties seem able to play, where it always falls flatter than a pancake
I also love how you missed out all the fundamental parts of where Palestine, has since and before Israel's creation never accepting this, even though other nations have had to and have constantly gone to war and attacked them, showing the fact they stupidly went to war and lost, not once but many times, where in between they have always committed terrorism. You see I post many links, but have no need, because I have far greater knowledge on this than you will ever begin to know dear chap.
You also miss out the fact that 600,000 to 800,000 Jews were displaced from Arab lands for no crime, but because Israel won against all odds against countless Arab nations attacking them, not accepting the UN resolution, of course you are quite on this and the fact displaced Palestinians were fundamental in starting the Lebanese civil war, where one million Lebanese were displaced, all facts you are silent on, which is no surprise, of course we see you protesting for the Lebanese and Jews to get their lands and property back?
Nope, showing your complete hypocrisy
and only a self righteous, pompous up his own arse all ways thinks he is right arsehole like you talks to people that way
i am sick to fucking death of your attitude your nothing more than a abusive twat so lets see how you like being treated that way you fucking arsehole
I tried my best to discuss thing, but you all ways with the personal comments and name calling
well fuck you

dick head

Good you are sick to death of me showing up your utter hypocrisy, more like you have utterly no answer to my points because the point is we have seen other nations go to war and lose lands, and have not see, as we have seen in Palestine where its people commit continued conflict and terrorism. This means even if they were given lost territory they would not stop there, clearly their goal is the destruction of Israel.
The reality is many people have been displaced and lands lost, only though with Palestine, where they did not accept a UN resolution have they continued conflict

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:39 pm

Korben_Dallas wrote:The real question is why does didge support the killing of so many innocent people he actually seems to revel in the losses
Hamas fire rockets into Israel, he will bleat and yes, they do

BUt How many Palestinians lives for one Israel life 100/1 200/1 more its not like they're actually killing the people that are shooting the rockets instead they are insentiviseing the Palestinians who are left to take up arms

Then he will bleat the age old bleat so why don't you go and fight or you're a terrorist supporter even asking the same to an old lady
Why doesn't he move to Israel if he loves tem so much he could be a spokesperson for Israel why don't you do that didge

And if hating what Israel is doing to Palestine makes me a "jew"hater or a terrorist sympathizer
Then so fucking be it
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
It all depends on your point of view

Again more utter lies from the left, at no point have I been in glee at any civilian death, sadly though civilian loses are a reality of war, it is no good, neglecting this fact, you would in fact be hard pressed to find any war where there was no civilian casualties. In fact I have continued to condemned some of the attacks done by Israel and state quite clearly some would be rightly defined as war crimes, however, every rocket attack from Hamas is a war crime, of which you are silent on. You bemoan that less civilian deaths have occurred in Israel, due to the simple fact, they have spent money on defense and bomb shelters for its people and have Hamas done the same? Nope, they have spent money vast amounts of money not on its people, but on weaponry to attack Israel. There are countless natural Tunnels within Gaza and only the Hamas elite and fighters have access to them, what does that tell you? That Hamas has no care of the loss of Palestinian civilian life, in fact they entice this to happen to gain sympathy. You ignore that Palestine could demilitarize, yet they do not, they spent little on infrastructure and they get plenty of money to spend off other Arab nations, this you also ignore All avenues point to Hamas and other Palestinian leaders creating the situation they are in.

The fact is is the West Bank firing rockets into Israel?
Is Israel bombing the West Bank?
No, whey? Because the West Bank and Fatah has the sense to build up a proper nation, where Israel settlements are wrong an they are taking the correct approach to win support within the UN and have recognition. I support their route also to have a two nation situation where for the main they are both at peace and there Israel would have to make concession if pressure was applied. That is why where you lefties, the ones that support Gaza with Hamas get it always wrong, as seen you ignore they create th situation, then make daft claims over their own fuck ups. Peace is within their hands, yet they always choose violence instead and to their cost.

Your blame is pointed the wrong way, and at each time Gaza shows aggression to Israel they will take a hard stance hitting back to defend itself/

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:59 pm

Does the West Bank have barbed wire round it - no. Did the West Bank make a Unity Government with Gaza - Yes. Do they have the right to do that - Yes, did Israel attack Gaza to to stop that - Yes, are there riots in the West Bank because of it - Yes, have Israel killed people in the West Bank because of their protests - Yes. Is Palestine allowed to defend itself from it's land being stolen - YES.

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:11 pm

Sassy wrote:Does the West Bank have barbed wire round it - no. Did the West Bank make a Unity Government with Gaza - Yes. Do they have the right to do that - Yes, did Israel attack Gaza to to stop that - Yes, are there riots in the West Bank because of it - Yes, have Israel killed people in the West Bank because of their protests - Yes. Is Palestine allowed to defend itself from it's land being stolen - YES.

All utterly irrelevant, the West Bank has chosen the path to peace and as seen Gaza has not, so why is the West Bank not being attacked Sassy?
No there has been some demonstrations that have become violent, but no rocket attacks, and does Israel bomb them?
Nope

Are you finally starting to see where the problem is?
Hamas

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:16 pm

During the month of June, Israel launched its largest military assault on the occupied West Bank in more than a decade, invading refugee camps, villages and cities across the territory. Six Palestinians were killed by Israeli forces during the military operation, all of them civilians. Hundreds were arrested, universities were raided and soldiers stole Palestinian property worth $3.5 million.

The pretext for the assault was the disappearance of three Israeli youths who were hitchhiking between settlement colonies in the West Bank on 12 June. It was later revealed that the Israeli police, intelligence officials and the prime minister knew within hours of the kidnapping that the teens had been killed.

Following the campaign of collective punishment and the discovery of the teens’ bodies on 30 June, the Israeli government, starting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the top, fanned calls for retribution and revenge for the teens’ deaths.

On 2 July, sixteen-year-old Muhammad Abu Khudair was abducted near his home in the Shuafat neighborhood of eastern occupied Jerusalem. His body was found hours later in a Jerusalem forest; a preliminary autopsy indicated that the boy was burned alive.

Three Jewish Israelis confessed to the brutal crime and reenacted it for investigators.

Meanwhile, mobs of Israeli youths continue to roam the streets of Jerusalem looking for Palestinians to attack. Two twenty-year-old Palestinians were recently beaten unconscious by youths wielding iron bars and baseball bats.

Palestinians in Jerusalem live in fear of being the next victims in an increasingly violent environment.
Killings across West Bank

Elsewhere in the occupied West Bank, at least seventeen Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces and civilians since the beginning of the military’s slaughter in the Gaza Strip on 7 July.

Palestinian rights group Al-Haq has investigated and summarized the circumstances of each killing, painting a picture of an army bound by no restraints on the use of force.

The victims include:

Mahmud Hatem Shawamra (27) of the al-Ram neighborhood of Jerusalem, shot dead by three live bullets after throwing a Molotov cocktail at an army jeep on 21 July.

Mahmud Saleh Hamamra (33) of Husan village near Bethlehem, shot in front of his wife and small child outside his shop by invading soldiers who had situated themselves next to his store on 21 July.

Muhammad Qasem Hamamra (20), also of Husan village, shot in the head by a live bullet from a distance of one meter, after clashes erupted following Mahmud Hamamreh’s funeral on 22 July. An eyewitness told Al-Haq that Israeli soldiers fired bullets into the air for no apparent reason during the funeral procession. During confrontations with protesters following the funeral, no gunshots were heard. “As Muhammad was killed by live fire, it is assumed that the Israeli soldiers used a sound suppresser when firing the bullets,” Al-Haq states.

Muhammad Zeyad Araj (17), shot with live fire in the head, thigh and arm during the #48KMarch mass protest which set out from al-Amari refugee camp in Ramallah and marched on to Qalandiya checkpoint on 24 July. “That night, there were more than 142 people wounded with live bullets,” states Al-Haq.

Eid Rabbah Fudeilat (28), shot by eleven live bullets in the legs, shoulder and in the back in al-Arroub refugee camp in Hebron on 25 July. In the time preceding Eid’s shooting, his brothers had called him to ask him to intervene with soldiers who were firing on demonstrators; the fire was preventing them from reaching their home. Eid approached the soldiers and got into an argument with one. “A soldier pushed Eid, who responded by punching the soldier several times. He then ran away to where his brothers and nephew were. When Eid had run about 10 metres away from the soldiers, they opened fire in his direction. Eid fell forward onto his face approximately 40 metres away from his house,” according to Al-Haq.

Basem Sati Abul Rub (19), shot in the center of his chest with a live bullet while throwing stones at soldiers near al-Jalameh checkpoint north of Jenin city on 25 July. Al-Haq states: “According to Al-Haq’s field researcher, there were 27 people at the hospital that had been injured at the protest. Most were injured in the lower parts of the body and had been hit with live bullets. According to witnesses, the sound of live bullets during the protest was rare. However, due to the number of injuries caused by live bullets, it is suspected that the Israeli forces used a sound suppressor when firing bullets.”

Khaled Azmi Odeh (20), shot with a live bullet by a motorist driving an Israeli-plated civilian car near Huwwara checkpoint outside the city of Nablus on 25 July.

Tayyeb Saleh Shihada (21) was wearing a mask and throwing stones at Israeli soldiers at Huwwara checkpoint on 25 July when he was shot with a live bullet in the head.

Nasri Taqatqa (14) was shot with a live bullet in the chest during confrontations between Palestinian youths and Israeli soldiers in Beit Fajjar village near Bethlehem on 26 July.

Alaa Jihad Ezghir (21) was declared dead on 29 July after he was injured on 23 July when he was shot in the stomach while throwing stones at soldiers at the entrance of Ithna village near Hebron.

Oday Nafez Jabr (19), shot and left to bleed for ten minutes on 1 August after attempting to run away from an Israeli soldier who had pointed a gun in his direction during a Gaza solidarity protest in Saffa village near Ramallah. “The demonstrators had yelled at the soldiers that someone was injured but the Israeli forces continued firing tear gas and live bullets,” according to Al-Haq.

Tamer Faraj Samur (22) was shot with a live bullet in the stomach after a peaceful demonstration escalated into confrontations near Gishori factories outside of Tulkarem on 2 August.

The three men from Beit Ommar whose killings were investigated by Human Rights Watch are also among the seventeen victims.

After Friday prayers on 25 July, hundreds of Beit Ommar residents marched to an Israeli military watchtower at the village’s entrance to protest the assault on Gaza. Israeli forces pushed them back by firing teargas and rubber-coated steel bullets.

Hashem Abu Maria was attempting to cross the street after the protest had dispersed when he was shot, witnesses told Human Rights Watch.
140725-abd-al-hamid-breigheth.jpg

Abu Maria, married with three children, was a human rights defender working with Defence for Children International Palestine.

Even when the willfull killing of Palestinian children is caught on video, Israeli soldiers are able to evade justice.

Security cameras owned by a local shopkeeper recorded the shootings of Palestinian boys Nadim Nuwara, 17, and Muhammad Abu al-Thahir, 16, at a demonstration near the Ofer military prison in the occupied West Bank village of Beitunia on 15 May.

The footage released by Defence for Children International Palestine showed the boys walking slowly in a calm scene when they were shot, posing no threat.

The Israeli military ordered the owner of the security cameras who captured the footage to dismantle his cameras and confiscated recording devices owned by other shopkeepers in the area.

Sultan al-Zaaqiq and Abd al-Hamid Breigheth were shot by Israeli forces about twenty minutes later, according to Human Rights Watch’s investigation.

Al-Zaaqiq was reportedly throwing stones at the soldiers from approximately 35 meters away when he was shot by live fire; Breigheth was shot in the leg and abdomen when he ran to assist al-Zaaqiq.

“In the course of half an hour in Beit Ommar, Israeli forces left three families without a father,” stated Sarah Leah Whitson, Human Rights Watch’s Middle East and North Africa director.
Evading justice

Human Rights Watch notes that the Israeli military has a poor record of bringing soldiers to justice for the use of live ammunition against Palestinian protesters who pose no threat. At least 46 Palestinians were killed in such circumstances from 2005 to early 2013, according to the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem, as mentioned in the Human Rights Watch report.

“Since September 2000, Israeli forces have killed more than 3,000 Palestinians who did not participate in hostilities in the West Bank and Gaza, according to B’Tselem’s data,” Human Rights Watch adds.

“But the military justice system has convicted only six Israeli soldiers for unlawfully killing Palestinians, with seven-and-a-half months as the longest jail sentence, according to Yesh Din, another rights group.”

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/maureen-clare-murphy/israel-bombs-gaza-it-kills-palestinians-west-bank-too

Beginning to see the problem now? - ISRAEL'S GOVERNMENT.

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:22 pm

So Sassy canot answer my points, so she does the time honored cop out of spamming.
The point still stands, the West Bank is not being attacked, why?
It is very simple and you cannot counter this, because the reality is it shows Gaza under Hamas have no intention of peace. Yes there are problems with settlements within the West Bank but ass seen they are taking he right approach that will take time.
The Hamas approach if one of wasting money countless money on weapons, that could be put to building infrastructure for the people. They deny access to tunnels to keep civilians safe from air strikes and shelling, it proves for all intents and purposes, Hamas has no intention of peace, their claims are nothing more than a smokescreen, where they will not rest until Israel is destroyed.
So what Arab nation is coming to Gaza's aid Sassy?

None

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:23 pm

Can't you bloody read, the West Bank was attacked, they just don't have the means to fight back.

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:28 pm

Sassy wrote:Can't you bloody read, the West Bank was attacked, they just don't have the means to fight back.

That is not an offensive but the victims of clashes

You really need to do better than that, where is the same in the West bank?

There is none, this is why your arguments always fall flat

It is also a leftie peace of propaganda crap as well which has no comparability to what is going on in Gaza, proving you have no answer to my points

by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:30 pm

Gerber, up until a month ago the fishermen were allowed 6 nautical miles out to sea. This was reduced to 3 about a month ago because of security reasons.
A lot of arms smuggling goes on by some of these 'fishermen', as They sail out right next to Egypt.
Look it up and you'll see.
Sassy has already come out with that rubbish and I have already posted the evidence to show it is complete lie.

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:14 pm

How many more times, every country is allowed 20 miles, Israel had no right to make it six and they have been killing the fishermen, sinking their boats and stopping them getting parts to repair them. 'Allowed' doesn't enter into it, Israel was not 'allowed' to restrict them to six miles, it's illegal in international law, not that Israel gives a fuck about law. And it wasn't reduced for security reasons, it was reduced because Israel wanted to restrict their fool supply.

by Guest Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:19 pm

Didge wrote:So Sassy canot answer my points, so she does the time honored cop out of spamming.
The point still stands, the West Bank is not being attacked, why?
It is very simple and you cannot counter this, because the reality is it shows Gaza under Hamas have no intention of peace. Yes there are problems with settlements within the West Bank but ass seen they are taking he right approach that will take time.
The Hamas approach if one of wasting money countless money on weapons, that could be put to building infrastructure for the people. They deny access to tunnels to keep civilians safe from air strikes and shelling, it proves for all intents and purposes, Hamas has no intention of peace, their claims are nothing more than a smokescreen, where they will not rest until Israel is destroyed.
So what Arab nation is coming to Gaza's aid Sassy?

None

Israel launched its largest military assault on the occupied West Bank in more than a decade, invading refugee camps, villages and cities across the territory

JEDDAH // Disunity among Muslim states has allowed Israel to launch its brutal armed assaults on the Palestinian people, Saudi Arabia’s top diplomat said yesterday.

Prince Saud Al Faisal called for support for Egyptian-led efforts to stop the fighting and end the Israeli blockade of Gaza, and warned Israel that without a peace agreement with the Palestinians it would not survive as a nation.

“Would it have been possible for Israel to carry out one aggression after another, had the Islamic nation been united?” the Saudi foreign minister asked a meeting of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation in Jeddah.

“What tempts Israel to commit its continuous crimes against the Palestinian people and Muslims as a whole is the weakness it sees in the Muslim nation due to fragmentation and divisions and the spread of sedition within it.

“As we see, Israel does not shy away from taking its terror to any level, with total disregard to any laws, rules, religious edicts or humanitarian considerations to achieve its goals.

“Its only objective is to uproot the Palestinian existence wherever it is,” Prince Saud told the meeting, which was attended by the Palestinian prime minister Rami Hamdallah and ministers from the organisation’s 56 member states.

“Israel has to realise that peace is the only solution for its survival,” he said.

The OIC meeting condemned Israel, “the occupying force, for war crimes it doesn’t stop committing in the Palestinian territories.

“Israel should immediately cease its aggression against the Palestinian people and shoulder political and legal responsibility for war crimes,” the OIC said.

Negotiations in Cairo to end the fighting appeared to have made no headway yesterday. Hamas insists on an end to Israel’s crippling seven-year blockade of Gaza, while Israel wants Hamas to disarm or at least an assurance that it does not re-arm.

Palestinian officials described the talks as “difficult and gruelling”.

Israeli forces have killed nearly 2,000 Palestinians in the conflict, which erupted on July 8 when Israel launched military operations to halt cross-border rocket fire from Gaza. Most of those have been civilians, while all but three of Israel’s 67 fatalities have been soldiers.

Prince Saud yesterday rejected western backing of Israel’s right to defend itself against Hamas rockets.

“Israel does not have a right of self-defence as an occupier. There is no rule under international law that says an occupier has a right of self-defence. For any country to take that position shows bad intentions towards the region and bad intentions towards peace in the region,” he said.

“I don’t think it’s fair to equate the actions of Hamas and Israel, either in scale or in substance. How can you say that Israel has a right to defend itself when it is the occupier and you do not give the same right to Hamas?”

Prince Saud said Saudi Arabia’s development fund would “continue to abide by the kingdom’s commitments” by contributing US$500 million (Dh1.84bn) for Gaza’s reconstruction, and offered 300m Saudi riyals (Dh78.3m) for medical relief aid.

Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-says-israels-gaza-wars-fuelled-by-Muslim-disunity#ixzz3AP5CP1XQ
Follow us: @TheNationalUAE on Twitter | thenational.ae on Facebook

And don't give me that spamming shit, if I had said Saudi was helping Gaza and condemning Israel you would have asked for proof. There it is.

by Guest Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:28 am

Even more bullshit, where is the comparability to the events in Gaza?
Idiots like the Saudis who fund terrorism is now your evidence?
Please you embarrass yourself everytime you post, where all you can do is spam articles and now by terrorist funders.
In fact there was nothing in the article accept a claim again of an invasion, yet we see no bombing attacks or shelling etc.
Dear me, do you even know what an invasion and conflict is?
So again your whole defense hinges on the West Bank, which as seen has had some people die in clashes, not a conflict as there is in Gaza, so again.

So Sassy canot answer my points, so she does the time honored cop out of spamming.
The point still stands, the West Bank is not being attacked, why?
It is very simple and you cannot counter this, because the reality is it shows Gaza under Hamas have no intention of peace. Yes there are problems with settlements within the West Bank but ass seen they are taking he right approach that will take time.
The Hamas approach if one of wasting money countless money on weapons, that could be put to building infrastructure for the people. They deny access to tunnels to keep civilians safe from air strikes and shelling, it proves for all intents and purposes, Hamas has no intention of peace, their claims are nothing more than a smokescreen, where they will not rest until Israel is destroyed.
So what Arab nation is coming to Gaza's aid Sassy?

None, by this military, which shows how daft you are again in not understanding, we know the Saudis have always funded terrorism

by Guest Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:37 am

Shut up you silly arse, you asked what Arab countries are coming to Gaza's aid. I told you. Stop making a fool of yourself.

The West Bank was invaded. It isn't Israel's land, when Isreal sends the IDF in, it's an invasion, twit.

by Guest Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:41 am

Sassy wrote:Shut up you silly arse, you asked what Arab countries are coming to Gaza's aid. I told you. Stop making a fool of yourself.

The West Bank was invaded. It isn't Israel's land, when Isreal sends the IDF in, it's an invasion, twit.

Yes which country has come to its aid militarily.
None, you have no answer to any of my points because you are such a gullible Stassi, who buys up so much bullshit you read, when all the answers are there easily seen by me pointing out them in basic idiot form for you to understand, and again we know some Muslim countries aid them with money to buy rockets to commit terrorism
The West Bank has not been invaded, they have protected settlements, that is not an invasion, or have committing shelling, bombings etc showing how utterly stupid you really are.
Now go go an educate yourself you thick dumb commie

by Guest Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:44 am

You haven't noticed there is a blockade around it and if an Arab country sent in troops you would be screaming blue murder. Idiot. Think I'll go to bed and have a cuddle rather than being bored to death by Gob Almighty

The only gullible one is you, who could be a propaganda machine for the Israeli Government lies. You are such a sad man.

by Guest Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:52 am

Sassy wrote:You haven't noticed there is a blockade around it and if an Arab country sent in troops you would be screaming blue murder. Idiot. Think I'll go to bed and have a cuddle rather than being bored to death by Gob Almighty

The only gullible one is you, who could be a propaganda machine for the Israeli Government lies. You are such a sad man.

Yet more garbage, you cannot evade the point about the West Bank compared to Gaza, because as seen itis Hamas who is the aggressor, only troops have gone into to protect settlements from attack.
AS seen you wish to evade the facts, that is a not an invasion where there is planes bombing, shelling, taking out tunnels etc.
Go to bed, all you do is run away or spam countless biased bull shit articles, showing your gullibility, you fail to see the facts every time, as seen, it renders your arguments moot.
Countless nations have gone to war and lost, where they have lost lands and people have been displaced, the Germans, having millions displaced and huge chunks of land lost dwarfing what Palestine has lost. They are just one of countless examples, yet we have not seen them continue to commit terrorist or military action to get them back, we only see this with Palestine for over 6 decades committing agressive violence and terroism and war and you blame Israel for continuing to defend themselves, what a joke that is.

by Tommy Monk Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:57 am

Sassy wrote:How many more times, every country is allowed 20 miles, Israel had no right to make it six and they have been killing the fishermen, sinking their boats and stopping them getting parts to repair them. 'Allowed' doesn't enter into it, Israel was not 'allowed' to restrict them to six miles, it's illegal in international law, not that Israel gives a fuck about law. And it wasn't reduced for security reasons, it was reduced because Israel wanted to restrict their fool supply.

Sassy, they can fish all they want up to 3 nautical miles out at the moment.
This was 6 miles out up until about a month ago when hostilities escalated.
For you to claim the reduction was nothing to do with security reasons is just a complete lie.
As is your claim that they can't fish at all.
As I have previously proved.
Don't get me wrong, I feel for the innocent civilians affected by the tough line that Israel takes.
But I also feel for the innocent civilians in Israel who are under constant attack and who will undoubtedly be under even greater attack when they relax security again as They always have been in the past.
I have always said there is right and wrong on both sides.

by Guest Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:14 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Sassy wrote:How many more times, every country is allowed 20 miles, Israel had no right to make it six and they have been killing the fishermen, sinking their boats and stopping them getting parts to repair them. 'Allowed' doesn't enter into it, Israel was not 'allowed' to restrict them to six miles, it's illegal in international law, not that Israel gives a fuck about law. And it wasn't reduced for security reasons, it was reduced because Israel wanted to restrict their fool supply.
Sassy, they can fish all they want up to 3 nautical miles out at the moment.
This was 6 miles out up until about a month ago when hostilities escalated.
For you to claim the reduction was nothing to do with security reasons is just a complete lie.
As is your claim that they can't fish at all.
As I have previously proved.
Don't get me wrong, I feel for the innocent civilians affected by the tough line that Israel takes.
But I also feel for the innocent civilians in Israel who are under constant attack and who will undoubtedly be under even greater attack when they relax security again as They always have been in the past.
I have always said there is right and wrong on both sides.

Wrong again Tommy, THE LAW SAYS THEIR WATERS ARE UP TO 20 MILES OUT, Israel has no right to stop them. And when they try and fish they are shot at, their boats damaged and the embargo means they can't replace engine parts when they go wrong and they can't get enough fuel to use, and Israel has no right to do any of it. ISRAEL HAS NEVER BEEN INVADED AND HAS NEVER HAD ANY OF IT'S LAND TAKEN. Palestine has been invaded and has had it's land taken over and over again and has a right to defend itself and a right to it's own land.

by Guest Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:18 pm

Didge wrote:
Sassy wrote:You haven't noticed there is a blockade around it and if an Arab country sent in troops you would be screaming blue murder. Idiot. Think I'll go to bed and have a cuddle rather than being bored to death by Gob Almighty

The only gullible one is you, who could be a propaganda machine for the Israeli Government lies. You are such a sad man.

Yet more garbage, you cannot evade the point about the West Bank compared to Gaza, because as seen itis Hamas who is the aggressor, only troops have gone into to protect settlements from attack.
AS seen you wish to evade the facts, that is a not an invasion where there is planes bombing, shelling, taking out tunnels etc.
Go to bed, all you do is run away or spam countless biased bull shit articles, showing your gullibility, you fail to see the facts every time, as seen, it renders your arguments moot.
Countless nations have gone to war and lost, where they have lost lands and people have been displaced, the Germans, having millions displaced and huge chunks of land lost dwarfing what Palestine has lost. They are just one of countless examples, yet we have not seen them continue to commit terrorist or military action to get them back, we only see this with Palestine for over 6 decades committing agressive violence and terroism and war and you blame Israel for continuing to defend themselves, what a joke that is.

I don't have to compare it to Gaza you plonker. If one country enters another country with an army, it's an invasion, no matter how many people they kill or what they destroy. You said the West Bank was peaceful and had not been invaded, it isn't and it was. Gullible fool you are, swallow another dose of Israeli propaganda why don't you. WHICH COUNTRY HAS BEEN INVADED OVER AND OVER, PALESTINE. WHICH COUNTRY HAS HAD IT'S LAND TAKEN ILLEGALLY UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW, PALESTINE. WHO HAS DOUBLED THEIR SIZE BY THE USE OF FORCE AND ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS, ISRAEL. WHO IS KEEPING PEOPLE IN A LARGE PRISON CAMP, ISREAL. WHO ARE THE TERRORISTS, ISRAEL.

by Guest Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:48 pm

Sassy wrote:
Didge wrote:

Yet more garbage, you cannot evade the point about the West Bank compared to Gaza, because as seen itis Hamas who is the aggressor, only troops have gone into to protect settlements from attack.
AS seen you wish to evade the facts, that is a not an invasion where there is planes bombing, shelling, taking out tunnels etc.
Go to bed, all you do is run away or spam countless biased bull shit articles, showing your gullibility, you fail to see the facts every time, as seen, it renders your arguments moot.
Countless nations have gone to war and lost, where they have lost lands and people have been displaced, the Germans, having millions displaced and huge chunks of land lost dwarfing what Palestine has lost. They are just one of countless examples, yet we have not seen them continue to commit terrorist or military action to get them back, we only see this with Palestine for over 6 decades committing agressive violence and terroism and war and you blame Israel for continuing to defend themselves, what a joke that is.

I don't have to compare it to Gaza you plonker.Yes you do I am afraid because it shows your argument is moot and that your support for Gaza is in fact support for Islamic extremism in Hamas, because as seen I support the West Bank through its peace process and unless Gaza wakes up to Hamas, then they will continue to suffer under an aggressive Islamic extremist regime, who will constantly start conflicts If one country enters another country with an army, it's an invasion, no matter how many people they kill or what they destroy.
Really, so we have been invaded by America have, of German has been invaded by the British?
I think not, the reality is there is no bombing, shelling campaign in the West Bank, troops are rightly their to protect settlements. You said the West Bank was peaceful and had not been invaded, it isn't and it was.
No it has not been invaded, that is just commie lies as per usual as seen you cannotn tell the difference and that the West bank is not in conflict with Israel either Gullible fool you are, swallow another dose of Israeli propaganda why don't you.
No as seen you are the commie lefty Islamic extremist supporter as seen WHICH COUNTRY HAS BEEN INVADED OVER AND OVER, PALESTINE. WHICH COUNTRY HAS HAD IT'S LAND TAKEN ILLEGALLY UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW, PALESTINE.
Nope wrong again, Palestine started war Israel and lost and lost territory, that is the problem when you wrongly go to war with a nation, you end up losing out, that is there problem and as seen other nations move past this, and have not continued for 6 decades war, violence and terrorism against Israel, only Palestine has done this, which at every turn you excuse WHO HAS DOUBLED THEIR SIZE BY THE USE OF FORCE AND ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS, ISRAEL. WHO IS KEEPING PEOPLE IN A LARGE PRISON CAMP, ISREAL. WHO ARE THE TERRORISTS, ISRAEL.

Caplocks, hilarious, what a sad wet fish you are Stassi.
The Settlements are wrong but at least the West Bank is doing the right approach which will take time, Hamas, who wants to wipe out Israel has no intent to use this approach and keeps wanting to continue conflict, using Palestinians as cannon fodder, to gain political sympathy and it is easily bought up by some wet lefty gullible fools.
So again you haven no intelligent response and a complete lack of understanding.
For one, only Palestine has continued to create war and aggression against Israel after losing countless conflicts, which Palestine started, which all could have been avoided if they had accepted as other nations have done, when being formed there would be no issue today, but they could then if Israel had then taken lands, through aggression, if Israel had started have a claim, but they do not, as in each case they have always started the aggression and seek to continue it.
Other nations have gone to war, lost huge chunks of land and had millions of people displaced, making the Palestine situation look like small fry in comparison, and we do not see conflicts from these nations, they have moved on, but Gaza cannot it seems and is intent on war.
The Arab nations took in many refugees from Palestine and how did they repay them?
Conflict and terrorism, the worst example being in Lebanon, where one million Lebanese were displaced, something you are silent on and never hear you call for their lands to be given back, or the hundreds of thousands of Jews displaced from Arab nations either.
They persist instead with the money given to them to help the people of Palestine waste it on weaponry, illegally brought into Gaza, this you also ignore, showing you have no clue to where the real problem is. If Gaza took the peace root, built infrastructure, they would have world support, but Hamas as seen are terrorists, as previously were the PLO etc, always from Palestine aggression, because they went to war and lost, thus their own fault.
Gaza has one choice, it has to be demilitarization and peace or it will as it has continued to do for 6 decades create its own destruction

by Guest Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:53 pm

://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/:

by Guest Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:56 pm

Are you bloody nuts you fool. They didn't loose land from WAR, they lost the land through ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS.

by Guest Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:56 pm

Sassy wrote: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/:

Excellent as seen it is so easy for me to show up how clueless you are Stassi .
What I have stated is true, you need to start accepting that fact, but then you back Islamic extremists.
Peace and demilitarization is their best option, I hardly think Hamas on an eternal road to self destruction for Gaza is the answer.

by Guest Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:59 pm

Sassy wrote:Are you bloody nuts you fool. They didn't loose land from WAR, they lost the land through ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS.

Oh they lost plenty of land in the conflicts, Israel has though pulled out its settlements in Gaza and withdrawn from Lebanon, the Sinai ect.
The West Bank is taking the right approach on settlements which came later an in time they will gain support, as they have taken the correct stance, not war, which is why your argument falls moot.

by Guest Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:00 pm

What you have stated is a load of bollocks, as normal. You're simply not worth anyone's time Didge, you're a one man Israeli propaganda machine and you wouldn't know the truth if it got up and slapped you.

Build bloody infrastucture you fool when the Israeli's won't let the stuff in to build it with, and then every two years they target it to knock some more down. You fell out the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down.

by Sponsored content