Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

by Guest Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Likud Charter Calls for Destruction of Any Palestinian State

By Jonathan Weiler

Since virtually every comment on Hamas in American media includes the assertion that the group’s Charter rejects Israel’s right to exist, it’s worth noting the following from the Likud Platform of 1999:

a. “The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.”

b. “Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel.
The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem”

c. “The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.”

d. “The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.

There have been some updates to the platform more recently, reflecting Israel’s withdrawal of settlements from Gaza in 2005. But the Likud Party has *never* in its statements of principles, accepted a Palestinian State. Its electoral partner, Yisrael Beitenu, has likewise categorically rejected the possibility of an independent Palestinian State, insisting that the idea is nothing more than a ploy to facilitate the destruction of Israel.

The Hamas charter, of course, does more than just reject Israel as a sovereign political entity. It’s a vile document that echoes some of the worst anti-Semitic tropes of the modern era. But on the central question of one side denying the other’s legitimacy — it’s hard to ignore the symmetry between Likud – the party of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu – and Hamas.

Some defenders of Israel become indignant at the mention of these realities as scurrilous and spurious because the Likud platform quoted above is just an “old” statement of principles not reflective of the Party’s actions in power. But by that logic, the Hamas Charter, written over 25 years ago, cannot be said to be the sole controlling document of that organization, since much more recent statements and actions by its leadership have, at least some times, included an expressed willingness to pursue a long-term agreement with Israel. Furthermore, Hamas also agreed to join the Palestinian Authority in a unity government that accepts all previous PA agreements with Israel.

Too much political discussion in the United States about Israel/Palestine proceeds from the premise that Palestinians have no other interest than to destroy Israel and drive the Jews into the sea. Therefore, it is said, well-intentioned Israel has no viable negotiating partner for peace. The political reality on the ground does not conform to such a simple-minded tale of good vs. evil. Israeli hardliners in power have repeatedly rejected any basis for a viable Palestinian state. Indeed, Prime Minister Netanyahu’s qualified statement in support of a two-state solution in 2009 – which his American apologists repeatedly invoke to demonstrate his “moderate” bona fides – was characterized by a member of his own cabinet as “the spin of our lives.” In fact. Likud leaders have said unequivocally that no two-state deal is possible. And just three weeks ago, speaking at a press conference, Netanyahu said:

“I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan.”

As David Horovitz wrote in The Times of Israel:

“He wasn’t saying that he doesn’t support a two-state solution. He was saying that it’s impossible. This was not a new, dramatic change of stance by the prime minister. It was a new, dramatic exposition of his long-held stance.”

In other words, no independent Palestinian state. Period. Ever.

Arab leaders are accused *all the time* of making one set of (conciliatory) statements in front of some audiences in English, while revealing their (true) rejectionist feelings in front of others, in Arabic. To the extent that this is true, one could certainly say the same about Netanyahu – relatively conciliatory and reasonable-sounding statements for international audiences. And altogether different rhetoric for internal consumption. Bibi is, after all, a master – like many politicians – at speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

Since Palestine does not exist as a recognized independent state, there is no need for Israel’s rejectionists to call for Palestine’s “destruction.” But the consistent avowals of Israeli leaders – and the plain language of the party platforms that express their parties’ core beliefs – to prevent such a state from coming into being is not substantively different from the expressed desire of the Hamas Charter to reject Israel’s existence.

The beginnings of a more fair and balanced appreciation of the conflict would start with that acknowledgment.

http://www.juancole.com/2014/08/charter-destruction-palestinian.html

by Guest Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:58 pm

Sassy wrote:
Didge wrote:150,000 Jews fought for Hitler, prey tell me Sassy how does your argument work there on hating Jews?

Who hates Jews? Jews all over the world are protesting about what the Israeli government is doing. Jews all over the world hate Zionists. Jews all over the world want Palestine to have a free state and Gaza not to be enclosed in barbed wire, they can see the similarities of what happened to them.

95% of Israelis back the offensive, so again lets see if you can understand my point, 150,000 Jews fought for Hitler, prey tell me Sassy how does your argument work there on hating Jews?

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:01 am

Didge wrote:
Sassy wrote:

Who hates Jews? Jews all over the world are protesting about what the Israeli government is doing. Jews all over the world hate Zionists. Jews all over the world want Palestine to have a free state and Gaza not to be enclosed in barbed wire, they can see the similarities of what happened to them.

95% of Israelis back the offensive, so again lets see if you can understand my point, 150,000 Jews fought for Hitler, prey tell me Sassy how does your argument work there on hating Jews?

Straw man argument again, Nobody hates Jews. They oppose what the Israeli Government is doing in it's war crimes of kiiling civilians and children, and many of the people opposing them are Jews themselves.

by eddie Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:03 am

Sassy wrote:
eddie wrote:Sassy, I can understand being passionate about something but you have started so many threads about this topic today!
You seem a little obsessed.

I find children being blown to bits with the assistance of our money something to be obsessive about.

There are lots of shit things happening to children everywhere, in our country too.
The MP's we pay handsomely who fuck us over every day.
You seem hell- bent on this.

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:04 am

Sassy wrote:
Didge wrote:

95% of Israelis back the offensive, so again lets see if you can understand my point, 150,000 Jews fought for Hitler, prey tell me Sassy how does your argument work there on hating Jews?

Straw man argument again, Nobody hates Jews. They oppose what the Israeli Government is doing in it's war crimes of kiiling civilians and children, and many of the people opposing them are Jews themselves.

That is like telling me nobody hates Muslims, I am afraid Jews are still far more hated in the west, than Muslims are and receive far more persecution, as you well know.
Only a few Jews oppose the offensive, about 5-10% world wide, that is a fact as a few articles does not change the view point of people hardened to survival .

So again answer the questions, 150,000 Jews fought for Hitler, prey tell me Sassy how does your argument work there on hating Jews?

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:05 am

eddie wrote:
Sassy wrote:

I find children being blown to bits with the assistance of our money something to be obsessive about.

There are lots of shit things happening to children everywhere, in our country too.
The MP's we pay handsomely who fuck us over every day.
You seem hell- bent on this.

To the exclusion of anything else it seems. Endless trawling for photos like she posted before cannot be healthy

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:06 am

Straw man Didge

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:08 am

eddie wrote:
Sassy wrote:

I find children being blown to bits with the assistance of our money something to be obsessive about.

There are lots of shit things happening to children everywhere, in our country too.
The MP's we pay handsomely who fuck us over every day.
You seem hell- bent on this.

If you seriously equate anything that is happening to us to what is happening in Gaza, locked in a small area, not allowed to leave, blown up, electricity station destroyed, water supply destroyed, hospitals bombed, I'm afraid you don't understand what is happening at all.

by eddie Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:09 am

Nems wrote:
eddie wrote:
Sassy wrote:

I find children being blown to bits with the assistance of our money something to be obsessive about.

There are lots of shit things happening to children everywhere, in our country too.
The MP's we pay handsomely who fuck us over every day.
You seem hell- bent on this.

To the exclusion of anything else it seems. Endless trawling for photos like she posted before cannot be healthy

It doesn't seem entirely healthy to me.

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:11 am

eddie wrote:
Nems wrote:

To the exclusion of anything else it seems. Endless trawling for photos like she posted before cannot be healthy

It doesn't seem entirely healthy to me.

What's unhealthy is seeing what is happening and not trying to do something about it, and not trying to shout it from the rooftops, and and thinking anything that happens to us equates with it in any way at all.

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:15 am

Sassy wrote:Straw man Didge

No, again wrong, no strawman, answer the question, as it will help all see your agenda.??

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:16 am

Sassy wrote:
eddie wrote:

It doesn't seem entirely healthy to me.

What's unhealthy is seeing what is happening and not trying to do something about it, and not trying to shout it from the rooftops, and and thinking anything that happens to us equates with it in any way at all.

But you don't do anything do you? Posting horrific images on a tiny chat forum is all you are capable of. Get off your arse and do something if you feel so strongly

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:19 am

Sassy wrote:

It doesn't seem entirely healthy to me.

What's unhealthy is seeing what is happening and not trying to do something about it, and not trying to shout it from the rooftops, and and thinking anything that happens to us equates with it in any way at all.[/quote

Bullshit, again, what did you do with Idi Amin killing hundreds of thousands?
Fuck all.
Pol Pot?
Fuck all.
Ean-Bédel Bokassa
Fuck all
Papa Doc
Fuck all

You see the list is endless, where your inaction is very telling, because if you have such anger as you claim and passion for any wrongs done to civilians and innocents, why only is it you only act in outrage when it is Jews, Americans or Brits?

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:19 am

Nems wrote:
Sassy wrote:

What's unhealthy is seeing what is happening and not trying to do something about it, and not trying to shout it from the rooftops, and and thinking anything that happens to us equates with it in any way at all.

But you don't do anything do you? Posting horrific images on a tiny chat forum is all you are capable of. Get off your arse and do something if you feel so strongly

I have.

by eddie Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:20 am

Nems wrote:
Sassy wrote:
eddie wrote:

It doesn't seem entirely healthy to me.

What's unhealthy is seeing what is happening and not trying to do something about it, and not trying to shout it from the rooftops, and and thinking anything that happens to us equates with it in any way at all.

But you don't do anything do you? Posting horrific images on a tiny chat forum is all you are capable of. Get off your arse and do something if you feel so strongly

I was about to say that.

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:22 am

eddie wrote:
Nems wrote:

But you don't do anything do you? Posting horrific images on a tiny chat forum is all you are capable of. Get off your arse and do something if you feel so strongly

I was about to say that.

Well its true isn't it?! Hiding behind a keyboard telling others what to think and posting horrible pics is hardly the stuff of heroines

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:23 am

eddie wrote:
Nems wrote:

But you don't do anything do you? Posting horrific images on a tiny chat forum is all you are capable of. Get off your arse and do something if you feel so strongly

I was about to say that.

You don't know what I've done. But it's obvious to me that none of you give a stuff about the fact your money is being used to blow those children to bits.

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:24 am

Sassy wrote:
eddie wrote:

I was about to say that.

You don't know what I've done. But it's obvious to me that none of you give a stuff about the fact your money is being used to blow those children to bits.

We know what you have done
Fuck all
All you do is sit at a computer so much you think this is reality.

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:27 am

Nems wrote:
Sassy wrote:

You don't know what I've done. But it's obvious to me that none of you give a stuff about the fact your money is being used to blow those children to bits.

We know what you have done
Fuck all
All you do is sit at a computer so much you think this is reality.

You haven't the faintest clue, thankfully.

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:27 am

Sassy wrote:
eddie wrote:

I was about to say that.

You don't know what I've done. But it's obvious to me that none of you give a stuff about the fact your money is being used to blow those children to bits.

The money here goes to many good and bad things, sadly money talks, what is worse is your fake outrage dependent and protests on who is involved in which conflict

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:29 am

Didge wrote:
Sassy wrote:

You don't know what I've done. But it's obvious to me that none of you give a stuff about the fact your money is being used to blow those children to bits.

The money here goes to many good and bad things, sadly money talks, what is worse is your fake outrage dependent and protests on who is involved in which conflict

:aspukeas: :aspukeas: :aspukeas: :aspukeas: :aspukeas: :aspukeas:

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:30 am

Sassy wrote:
Nems wrote:

We know what you have done
Fuck all
All you do is sit at a computer so much you think this is reality.

You haven't the faintest clue, thankfully.

Oh we all have more than a clue. You are all mouth, You do nothing. Nothing other than try to play queen bee on here

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:28 am

Nems wrote:
Sassy wrote:

You haven't the faintest clue, thankfully.

Oh we all have more than a clue. You are all mouth, You do nothing. Nothing other than try to play queen bee on here

Oh do get over yourself you stupid cow, I'm chairing a meeting tomorrow apart from many other things and have been asked to stand as a local councillor next year.

by Ben Reilly Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:11 am

Nems wrote:
Sassy wrote:
Nems wrote:

We know what you have done
Fuck all
All you do is sit at a computer so much you think this is reality.

You haven't the faintest clue, thankfully.

Oh we all have more than a clue. You are all mouth, You do nothing. Nothing other than try to play queen bee on here

Full disclosure, she told me she's not posting as much these days due to the inevitable reaction she gets on here. It seems Sassy can't post a thing without someone jumping her -- apparently because of historical stuff I'm not at all convinced has any actual merit.

I remain unimpressed by anyone who holds past forum history as more important than what any member here is saying here and now. I've said this from the beginning.

As far as the current situation goes, Sassy has been the top member in posting about how the Israeli government has treated apparently every Palestinian resident as responsible, with their lives forfeit, for the actions of Hamas.

If you don't think Palestinian Muslim lives are worth as much as Iraeli lives, that is your absolute right. But please don't drag past forum history in to cloud an issue so infinitely more important than what bullshit may have happened on some other fucking website.

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:51 am

Sassy wrote:
Nems wrote:

Oh we all have more than a clue. You are all mouth, You do nothing. Nothing other than try to play queen bee on here

Oh do get over yourself you stupid cow, I'm chairing a meeting tomorrow apart from many other things and have been asked to stand as a local councillor next year.

HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR!!

Yeah,& so am I.

I'm also a part time Samaritan..........Want my number do you?

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:02 am

Good morning Folks.

It's a terrible pity that people are being killed in both Israel & the Gaza Strip.And it's also a pity that the UK amongst other countries supplies arms to Israel.However, if the UK stops sending arms to Israel then the people who make those weapons & ammo etc will lose their jobs.

And the working class men & women who manufacture those arms will not want to lose their jobs for people who are hellbent on destroying each other for reasons which are fading into the blur of memory & war.

Even if a miracle occured which removed all modern day weapons from Israel & Gaza,then both sides would simply resort to hand to hand combat......And children would still be killed blah blah blah.

by Ben Reilly Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:20 am

Shady wrote:Good morning Folks.

It's a terrible pity that people are being killed in both Israel & the Gaza Strip.And it's also a pity that the UK amongst other countries supplies arms to Israel.However, if the UK stops sending arms to Israel then the people who make those weapons & ammo etc will lose their jobs.

And the working class men & women who manufacture those arms will not want to lose their jobs for people who are hellbent on destroying each other for reasons which are fading into the blur of memory & war.

Even if a miracle occured which removed all modern day weapons from Israel & Gaza,then both sides would simply resort to hand to hand combat......And children would still be killed blah blah blah.

Actually, I'm with you up to the point that I assume you're ridiculing the violent (and actually I'm still with you there).

Anybody who makes an economic opportunity out of bloodshed is monstrous, we should never lose sight of that.

by Irn Bru Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:55 am

Didge wrote:
Shady wrote:
scrat wrote:
Good afternoon Commander, I hope alls well in your parish.

The Gaza camp commandant Netanazi is a horrible little man, the Jews call this exercise "mowing the lawn", every now and then they goad the Palestinians into crying for help and thus the blitzkrieg for Anschluss, lebensraum und endlosung continues.

Problem is the Jews and Arabs are drawing us all into this conflict.

Good eveing Scrat.

Agreed.So why all the fuss this time?

The most intelligent point of this all.

Good Evening Commander

Why does this brings such outrage here in the UK over so many things else, when, year on year people die in far greater numbers from oppression.
The outrage is very much fake, it has been nothing more than a political statement, which is the most stupidest part when those on the left condemning have always backed Labour who also haves supported and backed Israel.
This is hypocrisy at its best and shows the true nature of such anti feeling within war, it is not how many victims die, but who is carrying out that bloodshed and the price it pays. This is evident hen there is then an excuse to excuse hate/ Think about it, whenever people are killed wrongly we allow ourselves to thrive on hate. Apart from Quill who gets it, the vast majority of the left look at a conflict to use as a weapon to garner popular support, an thus deceive, whilst the right, no matter how barbaric, tend to be more upfront.
We all know what is right from wrong,
The people who moan about this conflict live a complete lie, not really caring about one soul,because their whole counter is based upon a political argument and not any innocent civilian that sadly dies.

Every argument you see is born upon rights and wrongs with both in disagreement over how each perceive, but Quill as right, the Israeli's have become hardened against threats and who can blame them, when your existence has always been threatened.
That is why Quill puts aside emotional arguments for rational ones and gets wrongly knocked for it.

Are you for real? Only just the other day Quill was busy telling us that the Israel government had nothing to do with the building of illegal settlements in the West Bank and they were all being built by wildcatters against the policies of the Israeli government. He was also excusing an Israeli minister for coming out with statements that Gaza should be turned into a concentration camp and that Palestinians could be shipped out to other areas because Gaza really belongs to Israel. He made out that statements such as that will be looked on in the future as something that was said off the cuff and he'll wonder why he said it.
Sorry, but I just don't see where you get the notion that Quill gets it.

by Irn Bru Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:18 am

The image is sick and disgusting and a warning of graphic content wouldn't have gone amiss but I've seen a lot worse in British Newspapers and on our television sets of bulldozers shoving hundreds of near skeletons of human beings being shoved into mass graves when places like Belsen concentration camp was discovered and what had been going on. Film of people lined up in a line alongside open tips being shot in the head and falling into a mass graves.
The BBC series World at War showed us all that and it's images and film like that that made the world aware of the Holocaust and the injustice against the Jews, the Gypsies and the miscreants.
There appears to be more outrage at the member who posted the picture than there is against the people that committed the awful act that caused that to happen to that child because I really don't see much evidence of that. And I also didn't see any condemnation of those who gather on a hillside just outside Gaza to watch and cheer as the missiles fly in.

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:46 am

I'm glad I missed this, I'm still in therapy as a result of Debunker's photographic offerings Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process - Page 2 Faint_16

Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process - Page 2 Faint_16

by eddie Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:50 am

To Ben and Irn: as usual, you seem to only defend people you class as friends.

I didn't attack sassy and neither did others. We were upset due to the content of the picture which should have been posted as a link only - which is what I said.
I believe everyone who was upset by that picture would've reacted the same way whoever had posted it.

Both of you fail, at times, to be honestly unbiased.

Ben, I'm going to put it out there seeing as you have.
Lots of members here get it in the neck for their views and the way that other members treat them, but they don't PM you to tell you that they are taking a break because it's upset them. Only once, whist we were talking about Phil posting stuff about my children did I say to you I might take a break because I wanted him to leave my children alone.

The fact that a member has to PM you to tell that they can't post due to the "attacks" (it's a fucking debate forum!!) shows me that oh-so-subtley they wish you to feel some sympathy and that any future "attacks" that happen to them will just so happen to be noticed by you and they can then say "See?"

Sassy is as guilty as anyone and not-guilty as anyone, for arguments on here.

It takes two to argue Ben. Two.
So if sassy feels argued against, it must mean she's doing her fair portion of the arguing.

Actually I find it rather childish that posters have to PM the admin to wail about their treatment.
It's a debate forum: people should grow up and remember that there are far far worse things happening in the world just like the picture sassy has posted....

And yes, there's the irony.

by harvesmom Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:05 am

And while we are on the subject of disclosure, I would like to have it clear that it was me who made the first post on here about that photo, and I was not on any of the previous forums where the trouble was so my post was nothing to do with other forums history. I have no idea what happened previously, and neither do I want to because quite frankly its nothing to do with me.

I post based on what I see today. And if it upsets Sassy that I disagree with her, hell why should I care, she made it clear she doesn't give a flying one that she upset me and a few others last night. The difference is that I will just move onto another thread and post there instead, or log off for a while. I wont be filling up anyones in box about how personally affronted I am about what someone on an internet forum thinks about me that's for sure.

by eddie Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:08 am

harvesmom wrote:And while we are on the subject of disclosure, I would like to have it clear that it was me who made the first post on here about that photo, and I was not on any of the previous forums where the trouble was so my post was nothing to do with other forums history. I have no idea what happened previously, and neither do I want to because quite frankly its nothing to do with me.

I post based on what I see today. And if it upsets Sassy that I disagree with her, hell why should I care, she made it clear she doesn't give a flying one that she upset me and a few others last night. The difference is that I will just move onto another thread and post there instead, or log off for a while. I wont be filling up anyones in box about how personally affronted I am about what someone on an internet forum thinks about me that's for sure.

WELL FUCKING SAID.

I'm fed up of posters being babied and throwing hissy fits about shit on a forum.
Grow up and log off quietly if you're feeling put-upon.

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:20 am

Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:

The most intelligent point of this all.

Good Evening Commander

Why does this brings such outrage here in the UK over so many things else, when, year on year people die in far greater numbers from oppression.
The outrage is very much fake, it has been nothing more than a political statement, which is the most stupidest part when those on the left condemning have always backed Labour who also haves supported and backed Israel.
This is hypocrisy at its best and shows the true nature of such anti feeling within war, it is not how many victims die, but who is carrying out that bloodshed and the price it pays. This is evident hen there is then an excuse to excuse hate/ Think about it, whenever people are killed wrongly we allow ourselves to thrive on hate. Apart from Quill who gets it, the vast majority of the left look at a conflict to use as a weapon to garner popular support, an thus deceive, whilst the right, no matter how barbaric, tend to be more upfront.
We all know what is right from wrong,
The people who moan about this conflict live a complete lie, not really caring about one soul,because their whole counter is based upon a political argument and not any innocent civilian that sadly dies.

Every argument you see is born upon rights and wrongs with both in disagreement over how each perceive, but Quill as right, the Israeli's have become hardened against threats and who can blame them, when your existence has always been threatened.
That is why Quill puts aside emotional arguments for rational ones and gets wrongly knocked for it.

Are you for real? Only just the other day Quill was busy telling us that the Israel government had nothing to do with the building of illegal settlements in the West Bank and they were all being built by wildcatters against the policies of the Israeli government. He was also excusing an Israeli minister for coming out with statements that Gaza should be turned into a concentration camp and that Palestinians could be shipped out to other areas because Gaza really belongs to Israel. He made out that statements such as that will be looked on in the future as something that was said off the cuff and he'll wonder why he said it.
Sorry, but I just don't see where you get the notion that Quill gets it.

Yes I am for real and Quill has more intelligence in his right index finger than you have on any good day of the week Irn, lets face some facts here. Your argument is selective over the views of some, which is also used by mindless idiots who do the same to castigate all Muslims based off how some Muslim Governments act or how terrorists also act, so are you an idiot to use the same methodology here?
I think not, you have brains, so your argument is pointless, because Quill does see like I see Israel hardened to the point of survival, where before Jews no matter where on the globe to date through history, over 80 nations where they have been forced to leave, that has made them react to any aggression, to the point they will take apart any means their enemy can use to attack them. Settlements are wrong and have been pulled once before out of Gaza as they once were, just as Politicians also change, but what is rank hypocrisy is how the left fall over themselves to attack Israel whilst else where very near innocent people are being brutally slaughtered or live under harsh regimes. We see no protests over this, just the usual clear condemnation but nothing more than a whimper. The more I look at how people react to Israel the more I see the conflict being used as a ruse to allow antisemitism.

War is war and sadly innocents die, what makes this one so special that you and others ignore real attrocities going on in the countries next door?

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:27 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Nems wrote:

Oh we all have more than a clue. You are all mouth, You do nothing. Nothing other than try to play queen bee on here

Full disclosure, she told me she's not posting as much these days due to the inevitable reaction she gets on here. It seems Sassy can't post a thing without someone jumping her -- apparently because of historical stuff I'm not at all convinced has any actual merit.

I remain unimpressed by anyone who holds past forum history as more important than what any member here is saying here and now. I've said this from the beginning.

As far as the current situation goes, Sassy has been the top member in posting about how the Israeli government has treated apparently every Palestinian resident as responsible, with their lives forfeit, for the actions of Hamas.

If you don't think Palestinian Muslim lives are worth as much as Iraeli lives, that is your absolute right. But please don't drag past forum history in to cloud an issue so infinitely more important than what bullshit may have happened on some other fucking website.

Oh for fuck sake, grow some back bone Ben
You can be utterly biased towards people at time and we are all idiots also including me at times. This is a debate forum and rightly as Eddie says, people will fight and argue over things they do not agree on an every time she plays the fucking sympathy victim card and you fall for it.
Why is this about religion, as far as I am aware, there are also Christian Palestinians an plenty of Israeli Muslims, what gets my goat is the complete and utter hypocrisy over this one conflict, yes any civilian lives lost is wrong, but that is sadly the consequence of war, which thus both sides will be to blame for. So it has fuck all to o with old forum history, in fact it had everything to do with you not acting to remove quite an appalling picture an sassy should recognize that it was wrong, not have you defend her because she got told off for it, you should have done the same and been honest and said it was in poor taste or at least warned people and just posted a link. This was nothing personal against Sassy but for what she posted.

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:04 am

Sassy wrote:
Nems wrote:

Oh we all have more than a clue. You are all mouth, You do nothing. Nothing other than try to play queen bee on here

Oh do get over yourself you stupid cow, I'm chairing a meeting tomorrow apart from many other things and have been asked to stand as a local councillor next year.

You are chairing a meeting? On a Sunday? Ok yeah.
You are going to be a councillor? Go for it. The parishes are crying out for deranged old harridans with no life and an unhealthy interest in the lives of others. Going to do fuck all for the children of Gaza though isn't it?

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:13 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Nems wrote:

Oh we all have more than a clue. You are all mouth, You do nothing. Nothing other than try to play queen bee on here

Full disclosure, she told me she's not posting as much these days due to the inevitable reaction she gets on here. It seems Sassy can't post a thing without someone jumping her -- apparently because of historical stuff I'm not at all convinced has any actual merit.

Rubbish she is still here, playing you.

I remain unimpressed by anyone who holds past forum history as more important than what any member here is saying here and now. I've said this from the beginning.

Well that's not true either or you wouldn't have let Sassy post all those allegations about Dean and inaflap. What you mean is if you like the person she can do what she wishes.

As far as the current situation goes, Sassy has been the top member in posting about how the Israeli government has treated apparently every Palestinian resident as responsible, with their lives forfeit, for the actions of Hamas.

What she has done is c&p as many anti Israeli articles as she can find, despite the fact that your own guideline say only post a paragraph or two.

If you don't think Palestinian Muslim lives are worth as much as Iraeli lives, that is your absolute right. But please don't drag past forum history in to cloud an issue so infinitely more important than what bullshit may have happened on some other fucking website.

Again you don't know what I think about the situation in Gaza don't dare presume that you do! This is nothing to do with what may or may not have happened elsewhere (again your hypocrisy when you have had plenty to say about flap and its posters!) If you don't understand then you really are gullible.

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:18 am

Excellent points made by HM, Didge and Eddie. Ben and Irn please read those posts carefully and with an unbiased attitude and try to understand that your bias helps no one, least of all Sassy.

by scrat Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:23 am

Shady wrote:
scrat wrote:
Good afternoon Commander, I hope alls well in your parish.

The Gaza camp commandant Netanazi is a horrible little man, the Jews call this exercise "mowing the lawn", every now and then they goad the Palestinians into crying for help and thus the blitzkrieg for Anschluss, lebensraum und endlosung continues.

Problem is the Jews and Arabs are drawing us all into this conflict.

Good eveing Scrat.

Agreed.So why all the fuss this time?

Good morning Commander,

I think it's the hypocrisy this time, the Palestinians are subjected to a life in a jewish run concentration camp, the savage nazi Jew has even clinically calculated the amount of calories which may be consumed by the Palestinians and subjected to rations which may or may not pass through the blockade, that's why 80% of Palestinian children are malnourished.

The fact that Jews are now regarded as the nazis of the modern era will live long in the memory of ordinary citizens, the sympathy they play for has run dry and until and unless the savage nazi Jew is forced to live within its borders I see this situation starting various wild fires throughout the region that could potentially spill over into Europe.

It is a pity that Barry did not use air strikes against Israel and air drops for the Palestinians, more hypocrisy which bodes as a dangerous precedent for the future.

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:56 pm

scrat wrote:
Shady wrote:

Good eveing Scrat.

Agreed.So why all the fuss this time?
Good morning Commander,

I think it's the hypocrisy this time, the Palestinians are subjected to a life in a jewish run concentration camp, the savage nazi Jew has even clinically calculated the amount of calories which may be consumed by the Palestinians and subjected to rations which may or may not pass through the blockade, that's why 80% of Palestinian children are malnourished.

The fact that Jews are now regarded as the nazis of the modern era will live long in the memory of ordinary citizens, the sympathy they play for has run dry and until and unless the savage nazi Jew is forced to live within its borders I see this situation starting various wild fires throughout the region that could potentially spill over into Europe.

It is a pity that Barry did not use air strikes against Israel and air drops for the Palestinians, more hypocrisy which bodes as a dangerous precedent for the future.

Good Afternoon Chap

Thank you for clarifying the absurdity views of the left, we see nations like Burma that commit genocide to Muslims and the silence is deafening, we see Saudi a Theocratic state impose the most barbaric out of touch with society regime and the silence is deafening. I could go on as the list is endless but as seen we see a conflict between two groups of people that has gone on now for over a hundred years and you associate idiotically Nazism to Jews. You assume settlements is an Israeli Lebensraum policy, which would be absurd again, being as they have occupied, the Golan Heights, Lebanon, Sinai Peninsula etc all which have been not settled but seen the withdrawal of Israeli occupying forces, proving beyond doubt your antisemitism, how you use a fallacy association onto Jews, as most Islamophobes do onto Muslims by the actions of terrorists.

The Jews are not regarded as Nazi's only the hypocritical commies, far right tossers or radical Muslims believe this and even your response is to see innocent people bombed in Israel which even worse you fail to equate the victims would be both Jews and Arabs, being as 20% of the population are Arabs. Thus you would condemn innocent people to slaughter based off a very poor moot hatred you have come to form against the Jews, based off some absurd fallacy based around money and wealth, as if every Jew is wealthy.
Hence why those on the left that speak such rank hypocrisy are the worst when being under Labour each Government has always backed Israel, yes your beloved Labour, showing even more how you choose to place your arguments poorly when it suits you.

Israel has every right to defend itself and it is Hamas that creates the scenario to enable as many civilians to die as possible, this you and others try poorly to mull over. You forget the view point of extremist Islam, martyrdom, they have no care how many die and ensure as many civilians, even more so children do, to gain global sympathy and sadly you and others buy this. Yes Israel has committed war crimes, because they have targeted areas they believed were military, which judging by the record of Hamas is near impossible to tell, being as they as seen place weaponry within schools, hospitals etc. Only because Israel spends its money on defense and the rockets are not accurate, as the shield only stops so much is why we see so few Israeli causalities, which again includes Jews, Christians and Muslims, but you look at Israel and only see the word Jew. The fact that only not far from here countless innocent people are being butchered just because of their faiths matters little, only antisemitism has found a new lease of life again from those on the left and it was difficult enough dealing with the far right, now you walk hand in hand with them.

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:33 pm

Sassy wrote:I'm not denying it. It's my money, and your money and Harvesmum's money etc that is being used to do that. Unless we all speak up and demand it stops, our money will carry on helping that to happen.

Good afternoon Sassy.

So you posted a sad picture.You spoke up.And you demanded that it stops.

And millions of other people have done the same.

Guess what.It's still going on.

by Raggamuffin Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:58 pm

There are just too many threads on the subject of Gaza. One way to desensitize people to what's happening there is to start too many threads on it.

by eddie Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:48 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:There are just too many threads on the subject of Gaza. One way to desensitize people to what's happening there is to start too many threads on it.

It's everyone's right to post as many topics as they like even if it's about the same subject, indeed, sometimes it's easier to keep different sections of the same subject separate.

You can deny a poster's right to post about a topic Raggs.

by Raggamuffin Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:49 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:There are just too many threads on the subject of Gaza. One way to desensitize people to what's happening there is to start too many threads on it.

It's everyone's right to post as many topics as they like even if it's about the same subject, indeed, sometimes it's easier to keep different sections of the same subject separate.

You can deny a poster's right to post about a topic Raggs.

What's the point though? As I said, it just becomes much of a muchness in the end.

by Guest Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:52 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:There are just too many threads on the subject of Gaza. One way to desensitize people to what's happening there is to start too many threads on it.

It's everyone's right to post as many topics as they like even if it's about the same subject, indeed, sometimes it's easier to keep different sections of the same subject separate.

You can deny a poster's right to post about a topic Raggs.

Have to agree with Rags here. Its not as if these threads were debated. They were just anti Israeli C&P which as you said yourself were largely ignored and so Sassy had to post a picture to get attention.

by eddie Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:There are just too many threads on the subject of Gaza. One way to desensitize people to what's happening there is to start too many threads on it.

It's everyone's right to post as many topics as they like even if it's about the same subject, indeed, sometimes it's easier to keep different sections of the same subject separate.

You can deny a poster's right to post about a topic Raggs.

What's the point though? As I said, it just becomes much of a muchness in the end.

Well you may have a point but it's a poster's prerogative.
It's like someone that overuses the word "love" - becomes meaningless.

by Original Quill Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:57 pm

Irn Bru wrote:Are you for real? Only just the other day Quill was busy telling us that the Israel government had nothing to do with the building of illegal settlements in the West Bank and they were all being built by wildcatters against the policies of the Israeli government. He was also excusing an Israeli minister for coming out with statements that Gaza should be turned into a concentration camp and that Palestinians could be shipped out to other areas because Gaza really belongs to Israel. He made out that statements such as that will be looked on in the future as something that was said off the cuff and he'll wonder why he said it.
Sorry, but I just don't see where you get the notion that Quill gets it.

Didn’t even know this was going on. What I was saying was, I was asking you to explain the settlements, Irn. You haven't been able to—haven’t even bothered, to be honest—proving Didge’s point. You guys indulge in half arguments, half-truths, and forget the rest. Hamas/Gaza has tossed over 1,300 missiles over the fence, but that is ignored for more popular indulgences on behalf of pre-cast victims and pictures of dead children.

What I was saying about the Israeli minister was that he was wrong, but it is the kind to thing that goes on in a heated exchange during a war. But it’s great fodder if you twist it around, eh guys?

Ben, you haven’t been around this crowd to learn that this is not that. Yes, the sassy posse is real, but there is no other force out there. What you see are actual, natural, grass-roots responses to—yep, you guessed it—the contrived efforts of one sassy lady.

There’s only one person who keeps the PM lines to you hot. She’s either whining to you or attacking…a little inconsistent, wouldn’t you say? We saw all of this same stuff going on at SpeakFree, and it is what led to the revolt of September of last year. And the closing. You think it’s something new, Ben, because you don’t see that it has gone on through 3-4 different forums now.

I haven’t been involved in this brouhaha, this time. I feel sorry for the loneliness that sassy has built around her, but then I ask, whose fault is it? People get pissed. Natural, real-life pissed. And I’m like, I see a little girl crying, and she crying because nobody will do what she tells them to do. And I’m like, Hey, there’s something wrong with that!

I don’t like to see sassy hurt. But Christ almighty, man, if she had an ounce of empathy for anyone else, I’d be right there. I don’t know if I’ve made myself clear. But there’s no history with people like Eds and HM…they are just responding for today. They weren't even on SF. There’s no great conspiracy going on. Just honest reactions.

by Raggamuffin Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:00 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

What's the point though? As I said, it just becomes much of a muchness in the end.

Well you may have a point but it's a poster's prerogative.
It's like someone that overuses the word "love" - becomes meaningless.

Exactly, so Sassy's habit of starting numerous threads on the same subject is actually having the opposite effect to that which she hoped for.

by eddie Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:Are you for real? Only just the other day Quill was busy telling us that the Israel government had nothing to do with the building of illegal settlements in the West Bank and they were all being built by wildcatters against the policies of the Israeli government. He was also excusing an Israeli minister for coming out with statements that Gaza should be turned into a concentration camp and that Palestinians could be shipped out to other areas because Gaza really belongs to Israel. He made out that statements such as that will be looked on in the future as something that was said off the cuff and he'll wonder why he said it.
Sorry, but I just don't see where you get the notion that Quill gets it.

Didn’t even know this was going on. What I was saying was, I was asking you to explain the settlements, Irn. You haven't been able to—haven’t even bothered, to be honest—proving Didge’s point. You guys indulge in half arguments, half-truths, and forget the rest. Hamas/Gaza has tossed over 1,300 missiles over the fence, but that is ignored for more popular indulgences on behalf of pre-cast victims and pictures of dead children.

What I was saying about the Israeli minister was that he was wrong, but it is the kind to thing that goes on in a heated exchange during a war. But it’s great fodder if you twist it around, eh guys?

Ben, you haven’t been around this crowd to learn that this is not that. Yes, the sassy posse is real, but there is no other force out there. What you see are actual, natural, grass-roots responses to—yep, you guessed it—the contrived efforts of one sassy lady.

There’s only one person who keeps the PM lines to you hot. She’s either whining to you or attacking…a little inconsistent, wouldn’t you say? We saw all of this same stuff going on at SpeakFree, and it is what led to the revolt of September of last year. And the closing. You think it’s something new, Ben, because you don’t see that it has gone on through 3-4 different forums now.

I haven’t been involved in this brouhaha, this time. I feel sorry for the loneliness that sassy has built around her, but then I ask, whose fault is it? People get pissed. Natural, real-life pissed. And I’m like, I see a little girl crying, and she crying because nobody will do what she tells them to do. And I’m like, Hey, there’s something wrong with that!

I don’t like to see sassy hurt. But Christ almighty, man, if she had an ounce of empathy for anyone else, I’d be right there. I don’t know if I’ve made myself clear. But there’s no history with people like Eds and HM…they are just responding for today. They weren't even on SF. There’s no great conspiracy going on. Just honest reactions.

Good post Quill. I hope it's read with open eyes and an open mind.

I don't dislike anyone tbh and I also dislike discord.

by scrat Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:05 pm

"And I think the first thing that needs to be mentioned is that evidence indicates that Israeli intelligence and Netanyahu himself knew within hours of the three Israelis being killed. They knew they have been killed. They also knew who the perpetrators were. They knew it was not Hamas. They knew it were a couple of members of a particular family in the Hebron area. The Shin Bet imposed a gag order on Israeli media, made it seem that the three teenagers were still alive.

All of this done with the idea of manipulating and deceiving the public of putting pressure on the international community to give Israel the green light to launch an attack that was conceived in advance with the purpose of destroying people in Gaza of blocking the unity government purposed between Fatah, between the PA and Hamas and so the attack which is an attack on a collective base of citizens, a particular group of citizens in Gaza, definitely constitutes a collectively based murder with malice aforethought and this constitutes genocide without any doubt whatsoever."

by nicko Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:28 pm

never read so much crap in my life, your off your nut.

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