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About Us & RulesFor Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
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For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Guest Sat May 05, 2018 2:06 pm
For the American left, the Iran nuclear deal is becoming the peace process—that is, a landmark foreign policy project of a Democratic president reflecting the most cherished liberal beliefs about the world, that is failing at great cost to millions of people yet whose failure cannot be admitted.
The political beliefs that marched liberals down both of these diplomatic dead-ends were the same. Democratic administrations sought to turn anti-western enemies into friends, terrorists into decent citizens, through diplomatic engagement, concessions, and money. They were sympathetic to the Palestinian and Iranian Third Worldist rhetoric of resentment and accusation, and believed that by acknowledging grievances the United States could prove its good intentions, open dialogue, build trust, and transcend old misunderstandings and conflicts. Layered on all this is the rational materialist worldview; Clinton and Obama couldn’t seem to grasp that some people prefer their concept of honor or victory to a higher per-capita GDP.
President Obama articulated all this perfectly in late 2014, as he began selling the Iran deal:
The peace process and the Iran deal are the two great liberal foreign policy projects of the past 30 years, neither of them has worked, the sources of their failure are identical, and in both cases the left is handling its failure the same way: by denying it exists, by relying on friends in the media and in Europe to cover it up, and by scapegoating those who point it out as warmongers.
Two examples from just this week:
The Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas, delivered a speech in which he questioned Israel's right to exist and said that Jews brought the Holocaust on themselves. This is not the least bit surprising to anyone who has actually listened to Abbas over the years. But here was Barack Obama’s assessment of the man just a few years ago:
Well, whoops.
Then there was the Israeli prime minister’s revelation of a massive cache of Iranian nuclear files, hidden in violation of the JCPOA, that comprised a how-to manual to restart the country’s nuclear weapons program. The reaction of Iran deal proponents was to either claim the files are nothing new (this is laughably dishonest), or to insist that Iran’s cheating on the deal is exactly why the deal is so important.
Both the Iran deal and the peace process have become, as Popper would say, unfalsifiable. If the Palestinian Authority, intended as a state-building entity, is in fact a sewer of terror-glorification, corruption, and rejectionism, that just shows how important it is to achieve the two-state solution. If Iran is using its cash windfall from the nuclear deal to spread war and terror across the Middle East, that just means we should be thankful the nuclear deal prevents the regime from obtaining even worse weapons for a few more years.
http://freebeacon.com/blog/democrats-iran-deal-becoming-peace-process/
The political beliefs that marched liberals down both of these diplomatic dead-ends were the same. Democratic administrations sought to turn anti-western enemies into friends, terrorists into decent citizens, through diplomatic engagement, concessions, and money. They were sympathetic to the Palestinian and Iranian Third Worldist rhetoric of resentment and accusation, and believed that by acknowledging grievances the United States could prove its good intentions, open dialogue, build trust, and transcend old misunderstandings and conflicts. Layered on all this is the rational materialist worldview; Clinton and Obama couldn’t seem to grasp that some people prefer their concept of honor or victory to a higher per-capita GDP.
President Obama articulated all this perfectly in late 2014, as he began selling the Iran deal:
[Iran has] a path to break through that isolation and they should seize it. Because if they do, there's incredible talent and resources and sophistication inside of—inside of Iran, and it would be a very successful regional power that was also abiding by international norms and international rules, and that would be good for everybody."
The peace process and the Iran deal are the two great liberal foreign policy projects of the past 30 years, neither of them has worked, the sources of their failure are identical, and in both cases the left is handling its failure the same way: by denying it exists, by relying on friends in the media and in Europe to cover it up, and by scapegoating those who point it out as warmongers.
Two examples from just this week:
The Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas, delivered a speech in which he questioned Israel's right to exist and said that Jews brought the Holocaust on themselves. This is not the least bit surprising to anyone who has actually listened to Abbas over the years. But here was Barack Obama’s assessment of the man just a few years ago:
He has proven himself to be somebody who has been committed to nonviolence and diplomatic efforts to resolve this issue … I believe that President Abbas is sincere about his willingness to recognize Israel and its right to exist, to recognize Israel’s legitimate security needs, to shun violence, to resolve these issues in a diplomatic fashion.
Well, whoops.
Then there was the Israeli prime minister’s revelation of a massive cache of Iranian nuclear files, hidden in violation of the JCPOA, that comprised a how-to manual to restart the country’s nuclear weapons program. The reaction of Iran deal proponents was to either claim the files are nothing new (this is laughably dishonest), or to insist that Iran’s cheating on the deal is exactly why the deal is so important.
Both the Iran deal and the peace process have become, as Popper would say, unfalsifiable. If the Palestinian Authority, intended as a state-building entity, is in fact a sewer of terror-glorification, corruption, and rejectionism, that just shows how important it is to achieve the two-state solution. If Iran is using its cash windfall from the nuclear deal to spread war and terror across the Middle East, that just means we should be thankful the nuclear deal prevents the regime from obtaining even worse weapons for a few more years.
http://freebeacon.com/blog/democrats-iran-deal-becoming-peace-process/
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Original Quill Sat May 05, 2018 5:56 pm
Didge wrote:For the American left, the Iran nuclear deal is becoming the peace process—that is, a landmark foreign policy project of a Democratic president reflecting the most cherished liberal beliefs about the world, that is failing at great cost to millions of people yet whose failure cannot be admitted.
It's old news...a done deal. The only one talking about it is the current president, and he's just speaking twaddle.
If Trump breaks the deal with Iran right now, Iran walks away with everything, including the right to proceed with nuclear weapons. And Trump will be alone...Europe won't walk with him. All Trump will have done is convince the North Koreans that he can't keep his word.
Let's see...he's managed to generate one tax cut for the rich in a year-and-a-half. They don't call him "walk-away" Donald for nothing...that's his one trick as a negotiator. Seems he won't even take a second swipe at a pussy.
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Guest Sat May 05, 2018 7:17 pm
Original Quill wrote:Didge wrote:For the American left, the Iran nuclear deal is becoming the peace process—that is, a landmark foreign policy project of a Democratic president reflecting the most cherished liberal beliefs about the world, that is failing at great cost to millions of people yet whose failure cannot be admitted.
It's old news...a done deal. The only one talking about it is the current president, and he's just speaking twaddle.
If Trump breaks the deal with Iran right now, Iran walks away with everything, including the right to proceed with nuclear weapons. And Trump will be alone...Europe won't walk with him. All Trump will have done is convince the North Koreans that he can't keep his word.
Let's see...he's managed to generate one tax cut for the rich in a year-and-a-half. They don't call him "walk-away" Donald for nothing...that's his one trick as a negotiator. Seems he won't even take a second swipe at a pussy.
Old news or new news, that Obama was an idiot taken in by a human rights abuser in Iranian extremists, that did lie to him?
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Guest Sat May 05, 2018 7:17 pm
Original Quill wrote:
It's old news...a done deal. :
Old news or new news, that Obama was an idiot taken in by a human rights abuser in Iranian extremists, that did lie to him?
More and more, we are coming to see what legacy of incompetance Obama left whilst in office
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Original Quill Sun May 06, 2018 5:38 pm
There are very few options:
1. I gather you were/are in favor of Iran having nuclear weapons?
Without the Iran accord, Iran was on the way to developing a nuclear weapon. Only the accord stopped them. You, however, are against the accord, and so we may conclude that you favor Iran with nuclear weapons.
2. I gather you are in favor of more baby killing.
You seem bent on a war with Iran. Let's hope you space your wars out...we don't want a war in Iraq, a war in Afghanistan, a war in Syria and a war in Iran at the same time, do we? All these wars accomplish are the killing of babies.
They are the only defenseless ones you end up killing. Everyone else is doing what you are doing...ducking on the in-coming, shooting on the out-going.
1. I gather you were/are in favor of Iran having nuclear weapons?
Without the Iran accord, Iran was on the way to developing a nuclear weapon. Only the accord stopped them. You, however, are against the accord, and so we may conclude that you favor Iran with nuclear weapons.
2. I gather you are in favor of more baby killing.
You seem bent on a war with Iran. Let's hope you space your wars out...we don't want a war in Iraq, a war in Afghanistan, a war in Syria and a war in Iran at the same time, do we? All these wars accomplish are the killing of babies.
They are the only defenseless ones you end up killing. Everyone else is doing what you are doing...ducking on the in-coming, shooting on the out-going.
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by veya_victaous Mon May 07, 2018 2:32 am
what's really disgusting is the failure to address Israel's Nuclear program.
totally Hypocritical to only tell Iran or NK not to have nukes and do nothing about Israel (or the UK for that matter)
Crazy that such small nations have so many nukes
totally Hypocritical to only tell Iran or NK not to have nukes and do nothing about Israel (or the UK for that matter)
Crazy that such small nations have so many nukes
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Guest Mon May 07, 2018 11:35 am
Original Quill wrote:There are very few options:
1. I gather you were/are in favor of Iran having nuclear weapons?
Without the Iran accord, Iran was on the way to developing a nuclear weapon. Only the accord stopped them. You, however, are against the accord, and so we may conclude that you favor Iran with nuclear weapons.
2. I gather you are in favor of more baby killing.
You seem bent on a war with Iran. Let's hope you space your wars out...we don't want a war in Iraq, a war in Afghanistan, a war in Syria and a war in Iran at the same time, do we? All these wars accomplish are the killing of babies.
They are the only defenseless ones you end up killing. Everyone else is doing what you are doing...ducking on the in-coming, shooting on the out-going.
1) No, I am in favour of Israel taking out a Iranian threat. Just as they did with Syria and Iraq, when they tried to build nukes
2) Ah we are back to you being an imbicille
War will come to Iran and most of the Arab states, rightly see Iran as a threat. It arms terrorist groups, like Hamas and Hezbollah, intent on wiping out the Jews
You are such an idiot its beyond the belief i you do not see how that is very dangereous and if Hamas and Hezbollah won, we would be looking at a second Holocaust
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Original Quill Mon May 07, 2018 5:03 pm
Didge wrote:No, I am in favour of Israel taking out a Iranian threat. Just as they did with Syria and Iraq, when they tried to build nukes
...and how long will that last? Fighter jet strikes on a lone building are but pin pricks in the grander scheme of things. Israel did them for PR purposes...and look, it worked on you!
Didge wrote:Ah we are back to you being an imbicille
Go ahead and attack the messenger. It keeps you busy and out of the way.
Didge wrote:You are such an idiot its beyond the belief i you do not see how that is very dangereous and if Hamas and Hezbollah won, we would be looking at a second Holocaust
Israel is but a diversion for Muslims. It's a minor nuisance. The real battle of Islam is between the Sunnis and the Shi'ites. If that contest is ever set off, the ones fighting Israel will probably drop their swords to watch the main feature.
From this vantage point, we would do well to bring out the lawn chairs, whip up some tropical drinks, and watch the action. Only chumps get involved in minor side bets. When the big one is settled, we'll have a better idea of the geopolitical lay of the land, and can then make some intelligent decisions. Until then...it's out of our hands.
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Guest Mon May 07, 2018 5:32 pm
Original Quill wrote:Didge wrote:No, I am in favour of Israel taking out a Iranian threat. Just as they did with Syria and Iraq, when they tried to build nukes
...and how long will that last? Fighter jet strikes on a lone building are but pin pricks in the grander scheme of things. Israel did them for PR purposes...and look, it worked on you!Didge wrote:It certainly stopped the problem in Syria and Iraq
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Outside_the_Box
Go ahead and attack the messenger. It keeps you busy and out of the way.Didge wrote:No its stopping an extreme Iranian leadership, which wishes to commit a second holocasut
Israel is but a diversion for Muslims. It's a minor nuisance. The real battle of Islam is between the Sunnis and the Shi'ites. If that contest is ever set off, the ones fighting Israel will probably drop their swords to watch the main feature.
From this vantage point, we would do well to bring out the lawn chairs, whip up some tropical drinks, and watch the action. Only chumps get involved in minor side bets. When the big one is settled, we'll have a better idea of the geopolitical lay of the land, and can then make some intelligent decisions. Until then...it's out of our hands.
Wow, so now you speak for all Muslims now as well..
The best thing you could do, is stop speaking period, as it would save the planet from constant pollution
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Original Quill Mon May 07, 2018 11:59 pm
Wouldn't you like that! 
You're so scared of responding to me. You have no grasp of the situation. You just respond to anything adverse to Israel...like a reflexive knee-jerk.
Ask, furthermore, what is going to happen to gas prices in America if Trump cancels the Iran accord? Isn't he asking the American citizen to bear the financial burden of his wet dream? How does that look with the miniscule tax situation after giving the richest their huge tax break.
Higher gas prices, higher taxes to pay for a more expensive military...is there anything more that the rich can lay off on the little guy? White nationalism is sure growing expensive.
You're so scared of responding to me. You have no grasp of the situation. You just respond to anything adverse to Israel...like a reflexive knee-jerk.Ask, furthermore, what is going to happen to gas prices in America if Trump cancels the Iran accord? Isn't he asking the American citizen to bear the financial burden of his wet dream? How does that look with the miniscule tax situation after giving the richest their huge tax break.
Higher gas prices, higher taxes to pay for a more expensive military...is there anything more that the rich can lay off on the little guy? White nationalism is sure growing expensive.
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Guest Tue May 08, 2018 4:38 am
Original Quill wrote:Wouldn't you like that!
Ask, furthermore, what is going to happen to gas prices in America if Trump cancels the Iran accord? Isn't he asking the American citizen to bear the financial burden of his wet dream? How does that look with the miniscule tax situation after giving the richest their huge tax break.
Higher gas prices, higher taxes to pay for a more expensive military...is there anything more that the rich can lay off on the little guy? White nationalism is sure growing expensive.
So if I replied, how am I scared to reply
Now you are just talking about me and not any points
What will happen to gas prices, when the US created there being some of the cheapest when the Saudi's tried to go into a price war with them
You though think we should be blackmailed over oil
wow, that says it all. The US is now the world leader in the production of oil
http://fortune.com/2018/01/19/us-saudi-arabia-russia-largest-oil-producer-2018/
I stand against extremist groups and Iran is led by extremism, hell bent on causing continued problems in the Middle East, its why more Arab nations are warming to Israell and want Israel to attack Iran
Like I say, its clearly you brainless on the worlds problems
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Ben Reilly Tue May 08, 2018 4:49 am
Paid three bucks a gallon today. That's okay because I drive a tiny Aveo. I was still pissed off though
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Guest Tue May 08, 2018 4:51 am
Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:Paid three bucks a gallon today. That's okay because I drive a tiny Aveo. I was still pissed off though
Use your legs like I do, as I walk 5 miles to work and another 5 at the end of the day when I finish.
Save you even more money and you then get to excercize
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Original Quill Tue May 08, 2018 5:27 am
Didge wrote:What will happen to gas prices, when the US created there being some of the cheapest when the Saudi's tried to go into a price war with them
You though think we should be blackmailed over oil
Nice dance routine. I always did love the side-stepping, two-step.
Trump is blackmailing us? More likely, he's poised to take his 20% share of Russia's Rosnef Oil, which he got to do espionage, and make another killing on the backs of American taxpayers.
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Guest Tue May 08, 2018 5:29 am
Original Quill wrote:Didge wrote:What will happen to gas prices, when the US created there being some of the cheapest when the Saudi's tried to go into a price war with them
You though think we should be blackmailed over oil
Nice dance routine. I always did love the side-stepping, two-step.
Trump is blackmailing us? More likely, he's poised to take his 20% share of Russia's Rosnef Oil, which he got to do espionage, and make another killing on the backs of American taxpayers.
Will he?
Talk about you side stepping constantly all my points
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Original Quill Tue May 08, 2018 4:41 pm
Didge wrote:Original Quill wrote:
Nice dance routine. I always did love the side-stepping, two-step.
Trump is blackmailing us? More likely, he's poised to take his 20% share of Russia's Rosnef Oil, which he got to do espionage, and make another killing on the backs of American taxpayers.
Will he?
Talk about you side stepping constantly all my points
No, I'm bringing it back to the real (your) point: what is the real aim behind the unraveling of the Iran accord? Trump is not going to get any concessions from Iran. He doesn't want any; he's not acting on behalf of the US, or anyone else but himself. About the only thing that Trump can do is boycott Iranian oil, which then will raise the worldwide price of oil and make the average person (not the wealthy) poorer and eat up all his savings.
Of course, Iran will retaliate by mining the Strait of Hormuz (only 20-miles wide)) so that Saudi Arabia, the Kuwaitis, Iraq, Qatar and Gulf states cannot transport their oil to markets. This will spike the price of oil even higher, something that rich billionaires and Israel don't care about.
With a worldwide oil shortage, look what happens. Russia is the only remaining source of oil. Pressure will be on the US to lift the sanctions on Russia, and the Russian Mafia will be able to get Roznef Oil to market through Crimea (which is why they stole it back). The price of Roznef Oil will skyrocket in price, and Trump will profit immensely from his 20% share (covertly given to him by Putin).
If you would stop thinking statically (memorizing), didge, and start mentally processing (thinking dynamically) you would start seeing through these geopolitical strategies.
Why do you think Trump is kissing Putin's ass? They're business partners, dummy! Why do you think Trump won't reveal his tax returns; because it would show he owns 20% of Rosnef Oil, and reveal his motive to lift Russian sanctions. They are running a scam. Turn screws on the US little guy, and turn screws on the European little guy, and the world will start screaming. Then, take advantage of all that screaming to make money. MBAs call it creating urgency to build up your own market. When Trump says the US and Russia could do wonderful things together, he means for his own pocketbook.
Trump and Putin were foiled getting the oil to market just by gaining the White House. Now, they need an alternate plan that gets them to their goal. This is their Plan B.
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Guest Tue May 08, 2018 6:35 pm
Never laughed at such horseshit in all my life based on the fear factor that this pathetic left wing extremist believes
The above shows you have no idea on global oil resources and even worse where the US epxorts from
Hilarious babble and straight out of the fear factor book
Look wally, Trump is in power and lets hope he ruins the country, as i will laugh if he does
Off course I will feel sorry for Cass and Ben is leaving anyway, but lets hope it cuases you no end of shit eh?
Now, again i see you avoided again my points
Try again you complete ignorant twat
The above shows you have no idea on global oil resources and even worse where the US epxorts from
Hilarious babble and straight out of the fear factor book
Look wally, Trump is in power and lets hope he ruins the country, as i will laugh if he does
Off course I will feel sorry for Cass and Ben is leaving anyway, but lets hope it cuases you no end of shit eh?
Now, again i see you avoided again my points
Try again you complete ignorant twat
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Guest Tue May 08, 2018 6:42 pm
Donald Trump tells Emmanuel Macron he 'plans to withdraw' from Iran nuclear deal - live updates
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/08/donald-trump-announces-decision-iran-nuclear-deal-live-updates/
Oh look, happy days, poor old Quill eh
Ha ha ha ha
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/08/donald-trump-announces-decision-iran-nuclear-deal-live-updates/
Oh look, happy days, poor old Quill eh
Ha ha ha ha
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by Original Quill Tue May 08, 2018 9:21 pm
Didge wrote:Donald Trump tells Emmanuel Macron he 'plans to withdraw' from Iran nuclear deal - live updates
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/08/donald-trump-announces-decision-iran-nuclear-deal-live-updates/
Oh look, happy days, poor old Quill eh
Ha ha ha ha
Why? Because the US can't keep it's word? I already knew that
This is a good thing because North Korea won't be fooled into signing any agreement with the US.
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Re: For Democrats, the Iran Deal is Becoming the Peace Process
by 'Wolfie Wed May 09, 2018 1:01 pm
veya_victaous wrote:
what's really disgusting is the failure to address Israel's Nuclear program.
totally Hypocritical to only tell Iran or NK not to have nukes and do nothing about Israel (or the UK for that matter)
Crazy that such small nations have so many nukes
And not forgetting, France and Pakistan as well...
Let's not forget that Israel's real world GNP is smaller than that for New South Wales..
They couldn't afford a nuclear arsenal without the benefit of American sponsorship/subsidies.
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