Smelly bandit has been banned

First topic message reminder :

I took the decision to ban smelly bandit as there were no other mods or admin online and I wanted to out an end to any further trouble whilst also making an example of a poster who felt it was ok to post an absolutely horrific personal attack on another.

I take full responsibly and no doubt the backlash for any drama that now follows, ie being accused of hating RW's and loving LW's.

I don't care. It was the quickest way to diffuse a boiling pot of crap.

Ben will take the decision to lift the ban or extend it; it currently sits at a two-day suspension.

The offending post sits in a thread that has been moved to an admin section T the request of sassy - the poster who was attacked.

I personally do not think this site should tolerate that level of abuse.
I hope posters agree with me.

It has to be said though that chemo and other traditional treatments for cancer don't necessarily cure it. A lot of doctors don't use the word "cure" - they prefer "remission". Chemo doesn't always work at all, and in addition to that it's very toxic. New drugs are always being developed to try to solve the problem of toxicity, but nothing as yet can be guaranteed to cure cancer 100%.

I sleep because i have never told anyone to stop chemo i will tell others about alternatives and there is nothing wrong with doing so .

How do you sleep veya wishing slow death by cancer on people , that's worse than telling others about alternative medicines at least i don't wish them death i wish them healed .

carry on justifying yourself though it obviously makes you feel better .

I think that what Veya said was very wrong, and I think Ben is wrong to condone what he said. I also think Ben is wrong to use religion in order to mock VOD.

I find the subject of alternative medicine quite interesting. I don't think anyone should be telling people that something will work, but that also applies to traditional medicine.

When it comes to any health condition, doctors use first line treatment, and if that doesn't work, they go on to second line, third line, etc. That's because they know that not all drugs are effective in everyone.

Take aspirin for example. I never take aspirin for pain because it simply has no effect for me. It works for others though. In the treatment of heart attacks aspirin is often used, but it's only effective in a certain percentage of people. The same is true for any drug.

Raggamuffin wrote:I think that what Veya said was very wrong, and I think Ben is wrong to condone what he said. I also think Ben is wrong to use religion in order to mock VOD.

I find the subject of alternative medicine quite interesting. I don't think anyone should be telling people that something will work, but that also applies to traditional medicine.

When it comes to any health condition, doctors use first line treatment, and if that doesn't work, they go on to second line, third line, etc. That's because they know that not all drugs are effective in everyone.

Take aspirin for example. I never take aspirin for pain because it simply has no effect for me. It works for others though. In the treatment of heart attacks aspirin is often used, but it's only effective in a certain percentage of people. The same is true for any drug.

agree with everything you have said .

Thank you Raggs

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I think that what Veya said was very wrong, and I think Ben is wrong to condone what he said. I also think Ben is wrong to use religion in order to mock VOD.

I find the subject of alternative medicine quite interesting. I don't think anyone should be telling people that something will work, but that also applies to traditional medicine.

When it comes to any health condition, doctors use first line treatment, and if that doesn't work, they go on to second line, third line, etc. That's because they know that not all drugs are effective in everyone.

Take aspirin for example. I never take aspirin for pain because it simply has no effect for me. It works for others though. In the treatment of heart attacks aspirin is often used, but it's only effective in a certain percentage of people. The same is true for any drug.

agree with everything you have said .

Thank you Raggs

You're welcome. I don't get why people get so uptight about it all.

Raggamuffin wrote:

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

agree with everything you have said .

Thank you Raggs

You're welcome. I don't get why people get so uptight about it all.

I know what you mean , i don't see anything wrong with exploring alternative treatments and i find it interesting .

I rejoice when people are in remission when chemo has been their treatment

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You're welcome. I don't get why people get so uptight about it all.

I know what you mean , i don't see anything wrong with exploring alternative treatments and i find it interesting .

I rejoice when people are in remission when chemo has been their treatment

Drug companies themselves are testing alternatives or add-ons to chemo because of the toxicity and/or ineffectiveness, so what is the difference?

In my opinion, more attention should be paid to the immune system. The immune system is very good at picking up rogue cells and destroying them before they can cause tumours, but in some ways the immune system can also assist tumour growth.

agree again Raggs .

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:agree again Raggs .

Look at some of the autoimmune diseases out there. Nobody has come up with a reason as to why the immune system attacks healthy tissue and destroys it, all they can do is try to alleviate the symptoms, which often fails anyway. Lots of people try alternatives or modify their diet in an attempt to control the disease, and there's nothing wrong with that.

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

Lone Wolf wrote:
  

I HAVE to admire the way that VoD tries to zero her whining here onto veya and myself.

IGNORING the fact that several others besides us were criticising their "cancer cures" scam claims..

AND even now, in her above posts VoD obviously still stands behind their sham claims ~ I suppose they have to scrape up their family income from somewhere ?

when you get cancer you should try the natural cures

Tell that to someone just diagnosed....................Tell them it will cure them, they will live forever...................

Why are so many cancers being diagnosed and treated, because today we can. Forty plus years ago it went undiagnosed and untreated and people died

very true Raggs, i believe if the immune system is working properly it can fight anything off .

gerber wrote:

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

when you get cancer you should try the natural cures

Tell that to someone just diagnosed....................Tell them it will cure them, they will live forever...................

Why are so many cancers being diagnosed and treated, because today we can.  Forty plus years ago it went undiagnosed and untreated and people died

I didn't write that wolf man has changed my post to cause shit again .

gerber wrote:

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

when you get cancer you should try the natural cures

Tell that to someone just diagnosed....................Tell them it will cure them, they will live forever...................

Why are so many cancers being diagnosed and treated, because today we can.  Forty plus years ago it went undiagnosed and untreated and people died

Would you advocate telling someone that chemo will cure them then? If you do, you are misleading those people. It might do, or it might not. The same is true for any disease. If all drugs were 100% effective, there would be hardly any diseases around.

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

gerber wrote:

Tell that to someone just diagnosed....................Tell them it will cure them, they will live forever...................

Why are so many cancers being diagnosed and treated, because today we can.  Forty plus years ago it went undiagnosed and untreated and people died

I didn't write that wolf man has changed my post to cause shit again .

What do you mean? I'm not being funny but that post was made by you.

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:very true Raggs, i believe if the immune system is working properly it can fight anything off .

Yes, but in some cases it fights off things which should be there.   

gerber wrote:

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

when you get cancer you should try the natural cures

Tell that to someone just diagnosed....................Tell them it will cure them, they will live forever...................

Why are so many cancers being diagnosed and treated, because today we can.  Forty plus years ago it went undiagnosed and untreated and people died

gerber that was in response to veya i was being sarcastic .

Raggamuffin wrote:

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

I didn't write that wolf man has changed my post to cause shit again .

What do you mean? I'm not being funny but that post was made by you.

i realized it is and explained to gerber that i said it to veya i was being sarcastic

Raggamuffin wrote:

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:very true Raggs, i believe if the immune system is working properly it can fight anything off .

Yes, but in some cases it fights off things which should be there.   

shows how brilliant it is and shouldn't be messed about with

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, but in some cases it fights off things which should be there.   

shows how brilliant it is and shouldn't be messed about with

In the case of cancer, some parts of the immune system can interfere with the parts which are killing the tumour, so it should be messed about with really.

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

What do you mean? I'm not being funny but that post was made by you.

i realized it is and explained to gerber that i said it to veya i was being sarcastic

Ah, now I get it.   

Raggamuffin wrote:

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

shows how brilliant it is and shouldn't be messed about with

In the case of cancer, some parts of the immune system can interfere with the parts which are killing the tumour, so it should be messed about with really.

Toxins overwork it which makes us sick .

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

In the case of cancer, some parts of the immune system can interfere with the parts which are killing the tumour, so it should be messed about with really.

Toxins overwork it which makes us sick .

You mean toxins from food or whatever?

I'm oversimplifying it of course because it's very technical, but it seems that the immune system can be tricked into actually assisting cancer growth and spread.

Raggamuffin wrote:

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

Toxins overwork it which makes us sick .

You mean toxins from food or whatever?

I'm oversimplifying it of course because it's very technical, but it seems that the immune system can be tricked into actually assisting cancer growth and spread.

toxins from both i guess, there are some tumours that are harmless

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You mean toxins from food or whatever?

I'm oversimplifying it of course because it's very technical, but it seems that the immune system can be tricked into actually assisting cancer growth and spread.

toxins from both i guess, there are some tumours that are harmless

Some people say that the main cause of disease is mental stress. What do you think about that? I think there might be something in it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

toxins from both i guess, there are some tumours that are harmless

Some people say that the main cause of disease is mental stress. What do you think about that? I think there might be something in it.

I agree with you , my dad has Parkinson's and they say that stress is a big trigger . He had an horrendous childhood and the death of my brother aged 31 added to his stress , many other terrible tragedies have not helped either.

I suffer anxiety and panic but i am trying to conquer it and i feel i am succeeding in many areas . I believe stress and mental illness put our  our immune systems under stress .

Cass wrote:eds....not intended as a pisstake at you darlink.......just trying to make people smile after what has been a rough day for everyone so it seems.



love ya more than a gazillion million cookies xx

Hmmm well I was ready to have a good old sulk but.....awwwww come here you!

 :askissas: 

eddie wrote:

Cass wrote:eds....not intended as a pisstake at you darlink.......just trying to make people smile after what has been a rough day for everyone so it seems.



love ya more than a gazillion million cookies xx

Hmmm well I was ready to have a good old sulk but.....awwwww come here you!

 :askissas: 

Have you got the cookies ? SULK

I have never seen any sign of cookies so far ha ha

Excuse my ignorance,[it's an age thing] "cookies" are what I know as "Biscuits" am I right?

nicko wrote:Excuse my ignorance,[it's an age thing]  "cookies"  are what I know as "Biscuits" am I right?

yep biscuits nicko , cass says cookies as she lives in America .

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:I sleep because i have never told anyone to stop chemo i will tell others about alternatives and there is nothing wrong with doing so .

How do you sleep veya wishing slow death by cancer on people , that's worse than telling others about alternative medicines at least i don't wish them death i wish them healed .

carry on justifying yourself though it obviously makes you feel better .

we have already discussed this at length

In My Country
We have laws that Control and test alternative medicine to the point where it is no longer 'alternative' it just become Medicine.
'Alternative Medicine' By Legal definition in Australia, Controlled by Advertising Standards, means it is something that has failed to meet the minimum requirements to prove it has a positive effect (or it could call it self medicine and would do so).... but it has proven it does not have a negative affect in taking it in it's self (i.e not poison) so they are allowed to sell it for human consumption but there are rules about the wording they can use in the claims they make..... OFTEN American products(the main foreign ones we get) have the majority of the claims covered over because they cant prove it and do not meet our standards of truth in advertising.

So While it may not have a negative effect in it's self using 'Alternative Medicine' INSTEAD of recognized proven medicine is HIGHLY inadvisable. Using them in conjunction.... whatever just make sure you tell your doctor   

I Do Honestly believe they should just be banned out right.. the people that wish to sell and promote them should either PROVE it properly or face criminal consequence if someone follows their advice to the inevitable result.

I HAVE asked about the laws in your country regarding alternative medicine but no one has responded.... if they are open slather than I would not in anyway promote them and suggest it is highly irresponsible of anyone that does.   

veya_victaous wrote:

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:I sleep because i have never told anyone to stop chemo i will tell others about alternatives and there is nothing wrong with doing so .

How do you sleep veya wishing slow death by cancer on people , that's worse than telling others about alternative medicines at least i don't wish them death i wish them healed .

carry on justifying yourself though it obviously makes you feel better .

we have already discussed this at length

In My Country
We have laws that Control and test alternative medicine to the point where it is no longer 'alternative' it just become Medicine.
'Alternative Medicine' By Legal definition in Australia, Controlled by Advertising Standards, means it is something that has failed to meet the minimum requirements to prove it has a positive effect (or it could call it self medicine and would do so).... but it has proven it does not have a negative affect in taking it in it's self (i.e not poison) so they are allowed to sell it for human consumption but there are rules about the wording they can use in the claims they make..... OFTEN American products(the main foreign ones we get) have the majority of the claims covered over because they cant prove it and do not meet our standards of truth in advertising.

So While it may not have a negative effect in it's self using 'Alternative Medicine' INSTEAD of recognized proven medicine is HIGHLY inadvisable. Using them in conjunction.... whatever just make sure you tell your doctor   

I Do Honestly believe they should just be banned out right.. the people that wish to sell and promote them should either PROVE it properly or face criminal consequence if someone follows their advice to the inevitable result.

I HAVE asked about the laws in your country regarding alternative medicine but no one has responded.... if they are open slather than I would not in anyway promote them and suggest it is highly irresponsible of anyone that does.   

I disagree i think people should have a freedom of choice to research and try different treatments . I have never sold alternative treatments , i am interested in them and personally would use them first if i were to become sick .

You know saying that they should be banned is taking away our freedom and i was under the impression you were all for freedom of choice .

If we start banning alternative medicines because we think they are dangerous , how about banning cigarettes which have been proven to cause cancer ? how about banning sweets and chocolate because they can cause obesity ?

but not freedom to lie  

I honestly hope you don't choose to take alternative medicine INSTEAD of listening to Doctors..   
I don't want to sound condescending but there is not other way to write it

I don't believe you have done adequate research to make an informed decision, therefore the law should protect you from snake oil salesman by not allowing them to advertise to you UNLESS they can adequately prove their claims.

The Onus of Proof SHOULD be on the one making the claim NOT the general public. I wholeheartedly support TRUTH in advertising.

veya_victaous wrote:

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:I sleep because i have never told anyone to stop chemo i will tell others about alternatives and there is nothing wrong with doing so .

How do you sleep veya wishing slow death by cancer on people , that's worse than telling others about alternative medicines at least i don't wish them death i wish them healed .

carry on justifying yourself though it obviously makes you feel better .

we have already discussed this at length

In My Country
We have laws that Control and test alternative medicine to the point where it is no longer 'alternative' it just become Medicine.
'Alternative Medicine' By Legal definition in Australia, Controlled by Advertising Standards, means it is something that has failed to meet the minimum requirements to prove it has a positive effect (or it could call it self medicine and would do so).... but it has proven it does not have a negative affect in taking it in it's self (i.e not poison) so they are allowed to sell it for human consumption but there are rules about the wording they can use in the claims they make..... OFTEN American products(the main foreign ones we get) have the majority of the claims covered over because they cant prove it and do not meet our standards of truth in advertising.

So While it may not have a negative effect in it's self using 'Alternative Medicine' INSTEAD of recognized proven medicine is HIGHLY inadvisable. Using them in conjunction.... whatever just make sure you tell your doctor   

I Do Honestly believe they should just be banned out right.. the people that wish to sell and promote them should either PROVE it properly or face criminal consequence if someone follows their advice to the inevitable result.

I HAVE asked about the laws in your country regarding alternative medicine but no one has responded.... if they are open slather than I would not in anyway promote them and suggest it is highly irresponsible of anyone that does.   

Veya, since I am also in the dark re our regulations I have googled......

" The practice of conventional medicine is regulated by special laws that ensure that practitioners are properly qualified, and adhere to certain standards or codes of practice.
This is called statutory professional regulation. Professionals of two complementary and alternative treatments – osteopathy and chiropractic – are regulated in the same way. But there is no statutory professional regulation of any other complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) practitioners. For more information read Professional misconduct.

Unregulated complementary and alternative medicines

In the UK, there is currently no statutory professional regulation of any other complementary and alternative medicine practitioners.
This means, for example, that anyone in the UK can legally call themselves a homeopath and practise homeopathy on patients, even if they have no training or experience. These practitioners are not legally required to adhere to any standards of practice. If you have a complaint about treatment you have received from a homeopath, you have no special legal rights beyond normal civil and criminal law.

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/complementary-alternative-medicine/Pages/complementary-alternative-medicine-CAM-regulation.aspx

Amazing what one learns when on the boards. Frightening !

I will add there are Remedial and Vitamin treatments that can be helpful for many conditions.... But Cancer it not really one of them... some things may help in the prevention but not once you have it.

AND vitamin C injections for example ARE NOT 'Alternative medicine' here for a number of things... but again Cancer is not one of them

@gerber
thank you  ::D:: ::D:: ::D:: 

You see you do have to be careful folks

ALWAYS read the fine print   

veya_victaous wrote:but not freedom to lie  

I honestly hope you don't choose to take alternative medicine INSTEAD of listening to Doctors..   
I don't want to sound condescending but there is not other way to write it

I don't believe you have done adequate research to make an informed decision, therefore the law should protect you from snake oil salesman by not allowing them to advertise to you UNLESS they can adequately prove their claims.

The Onus of Proof SHOULD be on the one making the claim NOT the general public. I wholeheartedly support TRUTH in advertising.

I haven't heard of snake oil lol , i would use alternative and certainly would refuse chemo and radio therapy .

BigAndy9 wrote:

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

eddie wrote:Vod this post was very different to the twaddle lone wolf posts (sorry wolf)
Wolf has never got that personal and I'm sure he never would tbh.

I don't think we should tolerate that kind of level, I received a few Pm's about it.

I don't know what  it was edds, but no body but you and a few others gave a flying fuck when wolf and veya wished me and my hubby death by slow cancer , not sure if there is any worse than that because i found that very sick and very offensive .

I think in defense of smelly he has taken a lot of abuse on this forum too and maybe his patience just ran out .

That's all true, but we need to start somewhere - and i think the mods have started.

Every one of us can't keep saying "but it happened to me 4 months ago/2 years ago".

A line has been drawn, the rules are clear.  

                                

I am speechless

but thank you Andy   

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:but not freedom to lie  

I honestly hope you don't choose to take alternative medicine INSTEAD of listening to Doctors..   
I don't want to sound condescending but there is not other way to write it

I don't believe you have done adequate research to make an informed decision, therefore the law should protect you from snake oil salesman by not allowing them to advertise to you UNLESS they can adequately prove their claims.

The Onus of Proof SHOULD be on the one making the claim NOT the general public. I wholeheartedly support TRUTH in advertising.

I haven't heard of snake oil lol , i would use alternative and certainly would refuse chemo and radio therapy .

Sorry I forget Some people don't know expressions (but this one is Chinese AND American, so I thought you would   )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil

Snake oil is an expression that originally referred to fraudulent health products or unproven medicine but has come to refer to any product with questionable or unverifiable quality or benefit. By extension, a snake oil salesman is someone who knowingly sells fraudulent goods or who is himself or herself a fraud, quack, charlatan, and the like.

VOD take anything they can PROVE but as Gerber showed if they say it is alternative medicine then they are legally allowed to lie to you in you country    

IF you really want me to, I can explain to you how likely something is to be right or wrong   but you would need to be specific about what treatment you are proposing.
I do actually use Teas More then Pharmaceuticals for my own ailments But NONE of the alternative medicine regarding cancer are any good... and even though Chemo and Radiation therapy do have terrible side effects and are far from perfect they are still he most reliable way to fight cancer once it has grown.

Honestly IF any of them actually worked our system would be all over it.... we test Hundreds every year... And we are not such assholes that we would not tell the rest of the world 'hey we just PROVED this worked' to cure cancer  

The Burzynski Clinic in Texas

People have been cured by this guys treatment

Ok that Guy is bad news
First page of google
https://i.servimg.com/u/f39/18/52/86/20/vod10.jpg



And I had to look up the Movie It is made by one of his companies and is basically a massive fraud.

Inside Edition followed up these four patients and found that two of the four had died and a third had recurred, while the fourth had had bladder cancer with a good prognosis. In that report, the widow of one of Raphael’s guests reported that her husband and five others had sought treatment from Burzynski and that all had died.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/stanislaw-burzynski-bad-medicine-a-bad-movie/

Of course, antineoplaston therapy is chemotherapy, despite Burzynski’s attempts to portray it otherwise,

seems any success is due to the Chemo he uses and calls 'antineoplaston'

BUT what that relieved was even worse
http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2011/11/the-burzynski-clinic-threatens-my-family.html
The regularly SUE anyone that say that it didn't work for them     

And Actually the UK law Does protect you from this guy.

Honestly VOD what is your game? do you have a game     
Because he was really easy? You are actually concerning me a bit.   Please tell me you were doing something sneaky and I have fallen for it (I don't know what   )  I scares me to think that you could have really been sucker in by that guy   

Because Honestly HE IS the type of person I think should go to jail  ::resmahauth::  ::resmahauth::  ::resmahauth:: 

lol well we will leave the debate here because it isn't going anywhere .

LITTLE MISS FLOUNCEALOT wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:
I plead the Truth Defence
   

or Ben you can ban me for 2 day in 8 hours time....  I often don't login on the weekend anyway   

which shows how incompetent you are as a moderator, EDDIE  would never stoop as low as you to say something so evil . You know it was wrong what you said but you are too arrogant to admit it , an apology would go a long way if you truly do wish to move on and make this forum a decent place to post .

 

THERE was nothing "evil" or "wrong" in anything that veya' said or says about snake oil salesmen and scamsters selling fake "Natural cancer Cure" hopes ~ that's why I still agree with everything that veya wrote earlier about heavenlyfarters' scams...

THERE IS something very evil and completely wrong about scam artists like heavenly_ and all of his ongoing lies ~ as anybody who has lost relatives and friends to cancers and other incurable conditions will attest..

AND what could be possibly more dementedly "evil" or "wrong" than VoD's very OWN false accusations and puerile demands against both veya', and my most humblest self, on here today ~ all because she doesn't like their little sham 'home based business' again being called out for what it really is !  ::finger:: 

[img][/img]

medication time wolf man, off you go now    

veya_victaous wrote:
but not freedom to lie  

I honestly hope you don't choose to take alternative medicine INSTEAD of listening to Doctors..   
I don't want to sound condescending but there is not other way to write it

I don't believe you have done adequate research to make an informed decision, therefore the law should protect you from snake oil salesman by not allowing them to advertise to you UNLESS they can adequately prove their claims.

The Onus of Proof SHOULD be on the one making the claim NOT the general public. I wholeheartedly support TRUTH in advertising.

  

NOT ONLY are those ignorant scamsters heavenly_ and VoD clearly intellectually incapable of ever doing their own legitimate research on these topics...

BUT am I the only one on here who believes that neither of them even completed high school ???


AT LEAST this time 'round VoD seems to have dropped her previous tiresome fake God-fearing upstanding-Christian claims that never really fooled anyone..

AND that were always eventually exposed by her intemperate rants and language during her inevitable meltdowns.   

medication time wolf man .
I am going to ask your mental health doctor if he can increase the dosage as you seem to be getting worse  ::D:: 

[img][/img]

oh yes wolf man just so you know my husband doesn't post here anymore so why you keep including him i n your stupid nonsense ramblings only proves my point . You have lost the plot BIG TIME

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Cass wrote:

me too!

you....you....banist you .......beastly cad......Texan.......weird boot lover.....journalist!

You take that back, I hate those boots!

make me.....go on I dare ya......nah nah nah nah nah......

gerber wrote:

eddie wrote:


Hmmm well I was ready to have a good old sulk but.....awwwww come here you!

 :askissas: 

Have you got the cookies ? SULK

shhhhhhh big mouth......I didn't offer any ......just said I love her more than......but I just found these divine mini oatmeal ones with melted milk chocolate .....mmmmmmm


NICKO - yes they are but as VOD said that's what us doodles call them. .....biscuits here are usually big fluffy savory scone type things that you have at breakfast with a cream based sausage gravy......or at dinner with fried chicken with butter on them......mmmmmmmmmm

I HAVE A DREAM... that Cass is going to invite the entire Newsfix crew for dinner. Anytime you're ready Cass...