Malaysian Plane 'Shot Down With 295 On Board'

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

A Malaysian passenger plane has crashed in Ukraine, according to aviation sources cited by the Russian news agency Interfax.

The airliner, with an unspecified number of people on board, is thought to have come down close to the border with Russia.

It is not yet known where the aircraft was flying to or from, or what airline was involved.

More follows...

Update:


4:14pm UK, Thursday 17 July 2014

http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/malaysian-passenger-plane-crashes-in-ukraine



Malaysian Plane 'Shot Down With 295 On Board'
A Boeing 777 travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur reportedly comes down in Ukraine, close to the Russian border.
4:31pm UK, Thursday 17 July 2014
Ukraine plane crash

The plane is believed to have come down near the Ukraine-Russia border
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A Malaysian passenger plane has crashed in Ukraine, according to aviation sources cited by the Russian news agency Interfax.

The airliner, which was travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur with 295 people on board, is thought to have come down close to the border with Russia.

A spokesman for Malaysian Airlines has confirmed "an incident" on board one of its flights and is expected to release a statement shortly.

The aircraft involved is believed to be a Boeing 777 with flight number MH17, which departed from Amsterdam at 12.14am local time.

Sky's Katie Stallard, in Moscow, said media reports suggest the plane came down in an area where there has been recent heavy fighting amid continuing tensions between Russia and Ukraine.

More follows:

http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/malaysian-plane-shot-down-with-295-on-board

[gerber]

" Leaders of the rebel Donetsk People's Republic denied any involvement and said a Ukrainian air force jet had brought down the intercontinental flight."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/18/uk-ukraine-crisis-airplane-idUKKBN0FM1U420140718

Haven't seen or heard this before now.

[Guest]

I wonder if the other missing Malaysian plane will now be blamed on being shot down , it gives them a possible answer ?

[gerber]

" Kiev, Ukraine (CNN) -- [Breaking news alert, 8:18 a.m.]
The missile that hit Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 most likely was fired by pro-Russian separatists inside eastern Ukraine, a preliminary classified U.S. intelligence analysis concluded, according to a U.S. defense official with direct access to the latest information. The official declined to be identified due to the sensitivity of the information. Earlier, a senior U.S. official said the United States concluded that a missile shot down the plane.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

I doubt very much that the US even if unnamed would go to the media if untrue.



The US have so much monitoring equipment in the region IMO they know full well the cause and the perpetrators.

Maybe the tension would ease if they came clean.

[gerber]

Thought

If it had been an El Al airliner would the US still be taking the same stand and a back seat without any threatening manouveres or acts ? Rhetorical question   

IMO no they would already have reciprocated.

[Lone Wolf]

   

Wrong again, Your gerbilness !

OBAMA made a presidential address that was shown on Aussie TV news reports yesterday arvo'.

The fact that it hasn't yet been seen over there by you peoples says more about your chosen news feeds and TV network(s), than it does anything about the USA or it's administration..

AND, I do find your attempted juvenile politicising of this disaster to be rather silly and self defeating, little Ms Gerbil ~ even by your own usual weak standards.   

[eddie]

   

Wrong again, Your gerbilness !

OBAMA made a presidential address that was shown on Aussie TV news reports yesterday arvo'.

The fact that it hasn't yet been seen over there by you peoples says more about your chosen news feeds and TV network(s), than it does anything about the USA or it's administration..

AND, I do find your attempted juvenile politicising of this disaster to be rather silly and self defeating, little Ms Gerbil ~ even by your own usual weak standards.    

You could've said all of that without being so condescending really.   

[Eilzel]

I wonder if the other missing Malaysian plane will now be blamed on being shot down , it gives them a possible answer ?

Not really. This plane was shot down over Ukraine, an area with known conflict. The other plane went down somewhere in the far east and for all we know anywhere between China and Australia, but there is no such conflict in the region. The two incidents are imo completely unrelated.

[Lone Wolf]

I wonder if the other missing Malaysian plane will now be blamed on being shot down , it gives them a possible answer ?

Not really. This plane was shot down over Ukraine, an area with known conflict. The other plane went down somewhere in the far east and for all we know anywhere between China and Australia, but there is no such conflict in the region. The two incidents are imo completely unrelated.

I AGREE with Elizel...

However, VoD wasn't the first to seemingly suggest conspiracies behind or links between the two disparate crashes..

AT least two other members have previously pushed the 'conspiracy/coverups buttons' earlier on here.

[Original Quill]

Both black boxes recovered, but who has them ?

Will they be adulterated before they are handed over to the correct investigation..............

The offer of safe passage to the crash site also been denied by the Russians on the ground.

The black boxes are only of value if either (1) pilot error is an issue; or (2) a defect of a physical nature, or a defect in procedures, is an issue.  Here, the US has satellites watching round the clock, and we knew what downed flight 17 the moment the missiles were launched.  The black boxes will add nothing to the story.

Experts say the important thing is to get to the crash site and look over the skin of the 777 aircraft.  It will contain residue of the missile explosive, and will tell us instantly what kind of missile it was, which in turn will tell us where it came from.  The latter is not of great importance, as we now know that Russians brought this aircraft down...period!

The media have presented the story of Ukraine as if there was an insurgency faction in the east, opposed to the formal government of Ukraine.  We now know the so-called insurgents are really Intelligence Service units of the Russian Army, posing 'as-if' they were Ukrainians seeking separation...hence they are called separatists.  It's a lie that never gets corrected because media types don't see the need...rather like Republicans in that regard.

But it comes into play here.  Because, either the Russian Army, or the Russian Army posing as separatists, brought this aircraft down in a murderous act.  So, either way, the Russian Army brought this plane down.

What we learned this past week--and the basis for the latest round of sanctions by the US--is that the Russian government passed across the border to their faux separatists some newer SA-11 mobile missiles.  Apparently, these are the ones used in this murder.  As the Russian Army "inserts" said in the phone call, "We fucked up."

[gerber]

Both black boxes recovered, but who has them ?

Will they be adulterated before they are handed over to the correct investigation..............

The offer of safe passage to the crash site also been denied by the Russians on the ground.

The black boxes are only of value if either (1) pilot error is an issue; or (2) a defect of a physical nature, or a defect in procedures, is an issue.  Here, the US has satellites watching round the clock, and we knew what downed flight 17 the moment the missiles were launched.  The black boxes will add nothing to the story.

Experts say the important thing is to get to the crash site and look over the skin of the 777 aircraft.  It will contain residue of the missile explosive, and will tell us instantly what kind of missile it was, which in turn will tell us where it came from.  The latter is not of great importance, as we now know that Russians brought this aircraft down...period!

The media have presented the story of Ukraine as if there was an insurgency faction in the east, opposed to the formal government of Ukraine.  We now know the so-called insurgents are really Intelligence Service units of the Russian Army, posing 'as-if' they were Ukrainians seeking separation...hence they are called separatists.  It's a lie that never gets corrected because media types don't see the need...rather like Republicans in that regard.

But it comes into play here.  Because either the Russian Army, or the Russian Army posing as separatists, brought this aircraft down in a murderous act.  So, either way, the Russian Army brought this plane down.

What we learned this past week--and the basis for the latest round of sanctions by the US--is that the Russian government passed across the border to their faux separatists some newer SA-11 mobile missiles.  Apparently, these are the ones used in this murder.  As the Russian Army "inserts" said in the phone call, "We fucked up."

Thank you.

[Guest]

The black boxes are only of value if either (1) pilot error is an issue; or (2) a defect of a physical nature, or a defect in procedures, is an issue.  Here, the US has satellites watching round the clock, and we knew what downed flight 17 the moment the missiles were launched.  The black boxes will add nothing to the story.

Experts say the important thing is to get to the crash site and look over the skin of the 777 aircraft.  It will contain residue of the missile explosive, and will tell us instantly what kind of missile it was, which in turn will tell us where it came from.  The latter is not of great importance, as we now know that Russians brought this aircraft down...period!

The media have presented the story of Ukraine as if there was an insurgency faction in the east, opposed to the formal government of Ukraine.  We now know the so-called insurgents are really Intelligence Service units of the Russian Army, posing 'as-if' they were Ukrainians seeking separation...hence they are called separatists.  It's a lie that never gets corrected because media types don't see the need...rather like Republicans in that regard.

But it comes into play here.  Because either the Russian Army, or the Russian Army posing as separatists, brought this aircraft down in a murderous act.  So, either way, the Russian Army brought this plane down.

What we learned this past week--and the basis for the latest round of sanctions by the US--is that the Russian government passed across the border to their faux separatists some newer SA-11 mobile missiles.  Apparently, these are the ones used in this murder.  As the Russian Army "inserts" said in the phone call, "We fucked up."

Thank you.

However, that isn't the way Malaysia feels, they have demanded the black boxes, they are their's legally and will tell them for example, why the aircraft was at that particular point.   Some companies are using that airspace to save fuel, some aren't, now obviously Malaysia wants to know, and it's their right to know.

[Guest]

i suspect a bomb and not a missile

[Eilzel]

@wolf

That is true, however that was before confirmation of a missile strike. And VoD is suggesting that a strike may now be considered also in the first case- which is more specific but imo very unlikely.

[Guest]

I was watching the skynews report and find it strange how the plane is burnt to cinders almost but there are suitcases and laptops all in one piece including a childs stuffed monkey . Wouldn't they have burnt like the plane ?

[Guest]

I was watching the skynews report and find it strange how the plane is burnt to cinders almost but there are suitcases and laptops all in one piece including a childs stuffed monkey . Wouldn't they have burnt like the plane ?

That's what happens, small items get blown, bodies were falling naked where their clothes had been blown off.

[Guest]

I was watching the skynews report and find it strange how the plane is burnt to cinders almost but there are suitcases and laptops all in one piece including a childs stuffed monkey . Wouldn't they have burnt like the plane ?

That's what happens, small items get blown, bodies were falling naked where their clothes had been blown off.

That's just horrific those poor people , puts me off flying anywhere .

[Original Quill]

I was watching the skynews report and find it strange how the plane is burnt to cinders almost but there are suitcases and laptops all in one piece including a childs stuffed monkey . Wouldn't they have burnt like the plane ?

That's typical of an in-air breakup, according to media experts, opposed to impact with the ground of an in-tact plane.

[Guest]

That's what happens, small items get blown, bodies were falling naked where their clothes had been blown off.

That's just horrific those poor people , puts me off flying anywhere .

There were 80 children on that flight.

[Guest]

That's just horrific those poor people , puts me off flying anywhere .

There were 80 children on that flight.

heartbreaking nems   

[captain]

This is strange, two major flight crashes and both of them being Malaysian Airways.

There is a story going around that there were several HIV specialists on-board.

[Guest]

This is strange, two major flight crashes and both of them being Malaysian Airways.

There is a story going around that there were several HIV specialists on-board.

Not a story, it's been reported and they have been named CJ.

However, can't see how there is any link apart from it being the same airline, and many airlines have had more than one crash.

[Irn Bru]

Maybe it's time to think about putting defensive systems on commercial airliners. El Al started putting them on their aircraft s a couple of years ago.

Cost of systems v cost of lives I suppose.

[Lone Wolf]

This is strange, two major flight crashes and both of them being Malaysian Airways.

There is a story going around that there were several HIV specialists on-board.

     ANOTHER conspiracy theoryist...

NO DOUBT there's one internet site somewhere pointing to           


THE HIV conference in question is being held down in Melbourne in a week or two. Though trying to link that in any way to the cause of the crash is ludicrous..

[Lone Wolf]

I was watching the skynews report and find it strange how the plane is burnt to cinders almost but there are suitcases and laptops all in one piece including a childs stuffed monkey . Wouldn't they have burnt like the plane ?

That's typical of an in-air breakup, according to media experts, opposed to impact with the ground of an in-tact plane.

IGNORE Little Miss Flouncealot's ignorant b/s, and have a look at the photo's and video's for yourselves, peeps !!!

THERE'S heaps of wreckage around there, scattred over that crash site ~ including footage of people in military uniform walking over the wings..

[Guest]

MH17: British investigators arrive in Ukraine as pressure grows on Russia

Downing Street says six experts will join international team as China and Australia call for 'objective' investigation

Experts from the UK will arrive in Kiev on Saturday to assist a Ukrainian-led investigation into how Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was brought down.

Downing Street said six investigators from the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch would join the growing international probe into exactly how the plane came to crash, killing 298 people, including 10 Britons, nearly 200 Dutch passengers and 80 children.

The Foreign Office has also sent extra consular staff to Ukraine and the Metropolitan Police is liaising with international partners to send specialist officers to the country to assist with the recovery, identification and repatriation of those killed.

There is growing international condemnation of pro-Russian separatists for the incident, with the Britain and the United States both pointing the finger of blame at the militias.

Diplomatic efforts to secure a full investigation through the United Nations were also growing and putting pressure on Russia to assist in the effort.

China’s president Xi Jinping called for a “fair and objective” investigation into the disaster.

"I hope that a fair and objective probe will be carried out to establish the truth as early as possible,” he said on a visit to Argentina late on Friday.

It echoed calls from Australian prime minister Tony Abbott for a full and impartial investigation.


Well, lets hope they are allowed to investigate properly, I somehow think that they may encounter difficulties.

[Lone Wolf]

   

Wrong again, Your gerbilness !

OBAMA made a presidential address that was shown on Aussie TV news reports yesterday arvo'.

The fact that it hasn't yet been seen over there by you peoples says more about your chosen news feeds and TV network(s), than it does anything about the USA or it's administration..

AND, I do find your attempted juvenile politicising of this disaster to be rather silly and self defeating, little Ms Gerbil ~ even by your own usual weak standards.    

You could've said all of that without being so condescending really.   

  

AND take half of the fun out of it ???

Gerbil manages to insult me and others several times over without anyone pulling her up, and yet she's also the one constantly trying to cheapen and politicise every second thread with her tired old lies and rhetoric aimed at the USA and Barack Obama..


AND, note that Obama has made his second presidential address on this tragedy today ?

[Lone Wolf]

   SITTING in front of the teev News on early Saturday evening here...

Number of Australian residents on board is now up at 34 ~ the 28 from yesterday, plus another family of 5 from Victoria added today, plus the NZ Prime Minister has stated that there is another Kiwi onboard who was resident over here.. Most hard hit states have been Vic, Qld and W.A..

It was reported also, that Russian soldiers have "disappeared" back into Russia with the Black Boxes, so that supposedly nobody in the Ukraine knows where they are today.

AND to make things worse for Russia, their local "rebels" have been harassing and threatening European and international observers, journo's and officials moving into the crash area.

AND there's also some suspicion that the Russian military supplying the missiles may be allowing some untrained, inexperienced and ill-prepared remnants of the separatist rebel movement to operate some of these weapons ~ thereby having exponentially increased the chances and opportunity of disasters such as this occurring..

[Guest]

   SITTING in front of the teev News on early Saturday evening here...

Number of Australian residents on board is now up at 34 ~ the 28 from yesterday, plus another family of 5 from Victoria added today, plus the NZ Prime Minister has stated that there is another Kiwi onboard who was resident over here.. Most hard hit states have been Vic, Qld and W.A..

It was reported also, that Russian soldiers have "disappeared" back into Russia with the Black Boxes, so that supposedly nobody in the Ukraine knows where they are today.

AND to make things worse for Russia, their local "rebels" have been harassing and threatening European and international observers, journo's and officials moving into the crash area.

AND there's also some suspicion that the Russian military supplying the missiles may be allowing some untrained, inexperienced and ill-prepared remnants of the separatist rebel movement to operate some of these weapons ~ thereby having exponentially increased the chances and opportunity of disasters such as this occurring..

Is Australia a little bit behind with the news? Most of this was reported yesterday here in the UK.

However, now being reported this morning that Pro-Russian separatists have been accused of removing 38 bodies from the Malaysia Airlines crash scene and attempting to destroy evidence at the site. also reports of looting of victims' bodies and their belongings.

Sky's Michelle Clifford, in Donetsk, said: "These disturbing reports are gaining currency about looting at the site, that valuables, credit cards are being taken from bags from the wreckage, and in some cases from bodies.

[Guest]

Unfortunately, we'll never know the truth.

[scrat]

Flying over a combat zone to save fuel is obviously counterproductive, I'd guess it was a S-A missile strike, the technology of such is a tad more sophisticated than the operative who pushed the button, probably some yokel and his goat, guessing it's a military transport plane because no one else would be stupid enough to fly into an air space full of nutters hurling explosive projectiles at each other.

[Guest]

Thank god none of the Yankee boys have commented on how amateurish the operators of the SAM's are - that would have been too "cringe" lol

[Guest]

Never heard about this


It was a lot lower than the Malaysian flight but interesting i thought

[Lone Wolf]

   SITTING in front of the teev News on early Saturday evening here...

Number of Australian residents on board is now up at 34 ~ the 28 from yesterday, plus another family of 5 from Victoria added today, plus the NZ Prime Minister has stated that there is another Kiwi onboard who was resident over here.. Most hard hit states have been Vic, Qld and W.A..

Is Australia a little bit behind with the news? Most of this was reported yesterday here in the UK.....

 

FUCK OFF, Troll...

GET out of my face, you filthy slut !!!

AND take your stinking lies with you, you shit for brains fascist idiot..    

[Guest]

Oh dear Chrissy, you are simply not allowed to say that we know anything before Australia. The fact that British investigators are now in the Ukraine and you are quite right, we knew all that yesterday, somehow makes you a troll in LW's eyes. He's a bit odd like that.

[Lone Wolf]

   SITTING in front of the teev News on early Saturday evening here...

Number of Australian residents on board is now up at 34 ~ the 28 from yesterday, plus another family of 5 from Victoria added today, plus the NZ Prime Minister has stated that there is another Kiwi onboard who was resident over here.. Most hard hit states have been Vic, Qld and W.A..

........................................

 

8:30 p.m. update...

Australian residents lost now raised to Thirty Six...

28 Aussies, plus 8 permanent residents..

[Guest]

Is Australia a little bit behind with the news? Most of this was reported yesterday here in the UK.....

 

FUCK OFF, Troll...

GET out of my face, you filthy slut !!!

AND take your stinking lies with you, you shit for brains fascist idiot..    

Reported.

[Lone Wolf]

 

FUCK OFF, Troll...

GET out of my face, you filthy slut !!!

AND take your stinking lies with you, you shit for brains fascist idiot..    

Reported.

  

GOOD for you, Randy...

BUT I also notice you didn't bother reporting that racist trolling bitch for attacking my post !

You hypocritical and opportunistic lowlife bastard..

[Lone Wolf]

   SITTING in front of the teev News on early Saturday evening here...

Number of Australian residents on board is now up at 34 ~ the 28 from yesterday, plus another family of 5 from Victoria added today, plus the NZ Prime Minister has stated that there is another Kiwi onboard who was resident over here.. Most hard hit states have been Vic, Qld and W.A..

........................................

 

8:30 p.m. update...

Australian residents lost now raised to Thirty Six...

28 Aussies, plus 8 permanent residents..

[Guest]

Reported.

  

GOOD for you, Randy...

BUT I also notice you didn't bother reporting that racist trolling bitch for attacking my post !

You hypocritical and opportunistic lowlife bastard..

Apologies - could you point me towards it and if i feel it is offensive i'll report it.

[scrat]

 

FUCK OFF, Troll...

GET out of my face, you filthy slut !!!

AND take your stinking lies with you, you shit for brains fascist idiot..    

Reported.

OMFG,,,,it's now telling teacher,,,,,,,,report button addict!

[Lone Wolf]

 

BIG RANDY and shitface_"Christie" should both go and report themselves while they're at it...

TROLLING what was a serious and sombre thread until 20 minutes ago..  

HOW much lower can those two get ?  

[Guest]

 

BIG RANDY and shitface_"Christie" should both go and report themselves while they're at it...

TROLLING what was a serious and sombre thread until 20 minutes ago..    

HOW much lower can those two get ?   

Good grief, what is wrong with you?

This was my post to you earlier in full, can you please tell me which part is trolling, thank you.


Is Australia a little bit behind with the news? Most of this was reported yesterday here in the UK.

However, now being reported this morning that Pro-Russian separatists have been accused of removing 38 bodies from the Malaysia Airlines crash scene and attempting to destroy evidence at the site. also reports of looting of victims' bodies and their belongings.

Sky's Michelle Clifford, in Donetsk, said: "These disturbing reports are gaining currency about looting at the site, that valuables, credit cards are being taken from bags from the wreckage, and in some cases from bodies.

[Guest]

Is Australia a little bit behind with the news? Most of this was reported yesterday here in the UK.....

 

FUCK OFF, Troll...

GET out of my face, you filthy slut !!!

AND take your stinking lies with you, you shit for brains fascist idiot..    

I hope you are reprimanded for those remarks. Totally uncalled for.

[Guest]

 

FUCK OFF, Troll...

GET out of my face, you filthy slut !!!

AND take your stinking lies with you, you shit for brains fascist idiot..    

I hope you are reprimanded for those remarks. Totally uncalled for.

don't count on him being reprimanded he gets away with saying anything including wishing cancer and slow death on me , veya also said the same and Ben justified it .
I think wolf is mentally retarded and needs sectioning for public safety .

[eddie]

 

FUCK OFF, Troll...

GET out of my face, you filthy slut !!!

AND take your stinking lies with you, you shit for brains fascist idiot..    

I hope you are reprimanded for those remarks. Totally uncalled for.

don't count on him being reprimanded he gets away with saying anything including wishing cancer and slow death on me , veya also said the same and Ben justified it .
I think wolf is  mentally retarded and needs sectioning for public safety .

I have brought up your concerns with Ben.
I am not condoning this type of behaviour - that reply to Chrisite was unwarranted.

(And Vod, his remark to you was before my time as a mod so can we please, just go from now? X)

[Original Quill]

Thank god none of the Yankee boys have commented on how amateurish the operators of the SAM's are - that would have been too "cringe" lol

The so-called Rebels are in fact Russian Army Regulars, with their insignias removed from their uniforms.  Russians are notoriously incompetent when it comes to modern technology.  The missiles that brought down this Malaysian airliner were SA (surface to air) 11's, some of the most sophisticated in the arsenal.  Putin tried to field-train these covert operatives from the Intelligent Units of the Russian Army, with the obvious disasterous  result.  Like giving a toddler a box of wooden matches, and telling him it's a rattle.

After the break-up of the Soviet Union, the USA went in to assist the Russians on the transition to a peacetime democracy.  The Americans were appalled at the trash that the Russians put out as technology, and the juvenile procedures they had for handling potentially catastrophic weapons.  It became so shocking and notorious in the trade, that John le Carré wrote a novel titled The Russia House, which exposed the ineptitude of the Russians and their weaponry.

[Guest]

don't count on him being reprimanded he gets away with saying anything including wishing cancer and slow death on me , veya also said the same and Ben justified it .
I think wolf is  mentally retarded and needs sectioning for public safety .

I have brought up your concerns with Ben.
I am not condoning this type of behaviour - that reply to Chrisite was unwarranted.

(And Vod, his remark to you was before my time as a mod so can we please, just go from now? X)

I will mention to new comers if they are being abused and don't know why just so they know the extent of the problem edds , i know you are doing your best and i appreciate it xx

[Guest]

I have brought up your concerns with Ben.
I am not condoning this type of behaviour - that reply to Chrisite was unwarranted.

(And Vod, his remark to you was before my time as a mod so can we please, just go from now? X)

I will mention to new comers if they are being abused and don't know why just so they know the extent of the problem edds , i know you are doing your best and i appreciate it xx

VOD, you know I agree with you about favouritism and bias on here. But we have to draw a line now and move forward. The site has more active moderation now and things are beginning to improve. Lets give the admin and the mods a chance to show they can be unbiased and willing to censure anyone that deserves it. x

[Guest]

I have brought up your concerns with Ben.
I am not condoning this type of behaviour - that reply to Chrisite was unwarranted.

(And Vod, his remark to you was before my time as a mod so can we please, just go from now? X)

I will mention to new comers if they are being abused and don't know why just so they know the extent of the problem edds , i know you are doing your best and i appreciate it xx

Thanks for the concern Little Miss, but I have seen this members abusive posts before (hard to miss really as its all he seems to do), but never for a moment did I think he would turn on me as I have never conversed with him before now and I believe my post was perfectly reasonable. I guess I will be added to his hit list now, but seriously, his sort of behaviour should have been nipped in the bud at the start.

[eddie]

I have brought up your concerns with Ben.
I am not condoning this type of behaviour - that reply to Chrisite was unwarranted.

(And Vod, his remark to you was before my time as a mod so can we please, just go from now? X)

I will mention to new comers if they are being abused and don't know why just so they know the extent of the problem edds , i know you are doing your best and i appreciate it xx

VOD, you know I agree with you about favouritism and bias on here. But we have to draw a line now and move forward. The site has more active moderation now and things are beginning to improve. Lets give the admin and the mods a chance to show they can be unbiased and willing to censure anyone that deserves it. x

  

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