Malaysian Plane 'Shot Down With 295 On Board'

[Guest]

A Malaysian passenger plane has crashed in Ukraine, according to aviation sources cited by the Russian news agency Interfax.

The airliner, with an unspecified number of people on board, is thought to have come down close to the border with Russia.

It is not yet known where the aircraft was flying to or from, or what airline was involved.

More follows...

Update:


4:14pm UK, Thursday 17 July 2014

http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/malaysian-passenger-plane-crashes-in-ukraine



Malaysian Plane 'Shot Down With 295 On Board'
A Boeing 777 travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur reportedly comes down in Ukraine, close to the Russian border.
4:31pm UK, Thursday 17 July 2014
Ukraine plane crash

The plane is believed to have come down near the Ukraine-Russia border
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A Malaysian passenger plane has crashed in Ukraine, according to aviation sources cited by the Russian news agency Interfax.

The airliner, which was travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur with 295 people on board, is thought to have come down close to the border with Russia.

A spokesman for Malaysian Airlines has confirmed "an incident" on board one of its flights and is expected to release a statement shortly.

The aircraft involved is believed to be a Boeing 777 with flight number MH17, which departed from Amsterdam at 12.14am local time.

Sky's Katie Stallard, in Moscow, said media reports suggest the plane came down in an area where there has been recent heavy fighting amid continuing tensions between Russia and Ukraine.

More follows:

http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/malaysian-plane-shot-down-with-295-on-board

[eddie]

Was just about to post this up!

Another plane full of Malaysians?????

[Original Quill]

Shot down by a ground-to-air missile? I'd like to see the evidence for that.

Who, there, has a grudge against Malaysia?

[eddie]

Shot down by a ground-to-air missile?  I'd like  to see the evidence for that.

Who, there, has a grudge against Malaysia?

Well this is what I am not understanding?
Another plane from Malaysia???

Something stinks!!!

[Guest]

Now the shit is really going to hit the fan

Please form an orderly line

http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/shop/survival-accessories/survival-accessories.html

[Tommy Monk]

Surely civilian planes would not be going through airspace with all the trouble going on there...?
And the Ukraine/pro Russians are shelling each other and having running ground battles, wouldn't have thought any of them would have ground to air missiles capable of hitting a plane at 35,000 feet....?

[Guest]

Now the shit is really going to hit the fan

Please form an orderly line

http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/shop/survival-accessories/survival-accessories.html

It'll be a very small line.

[Guest]

Surely civilian planes would not be going through airspace with all the trouble going on there...?
And the Ukraine/pro Russians are shelling each other and having running ground battles, wouldn't have thought any of them would have ground to air missiles capable of hitting a plane at 35,000 feet....?

lol my thoughts exactly

Especially after all the others over the past few weeks.

[Guest]

Surely civilian planes would not be going through airspace with all the trouble going on there...?
And the Ukraine/pro Russians are shelling each other and having running ground battles, wouldn't have thought any of them would have ground to air missiles capable of hitting a plane at 35,000 feet....?

yes and apparently that has been the case except for Malaysian airlines

[Guest]

Now the shit is really going to hit the fan

Please form an orderly line

http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/shop/survival-accessories/survival-accessories.html

It'll be a very small line.

i think this could give Russia total leginamicy to wade into the region America won`t be happy Europe won`t be happy ....slippery slope

[Guest]

It'll be a very small line.

i think this could give  Russia total leginamicy to wade into the region America won`t be happy Europe won`t be happy ....slippery slope

To what? A load of people like you saying "it's world war 3"!

[eddie]

I think something is going on...

Two Malaysian airlines in in three months???

[Eilzel]

I think something is going on...

Two Malaysian airlines in in three months???

If this was an attack though that makes it a very different issue- though the pure bad fortune of it happening to planes from the same company does seem odd.

[Guest]

I think something is going on...

Two Malaysian airlines in in three months???

It's very bad luck.

[Guest]

i think this could give  Russia total leginamicy to wade into the region America won`t be happy Europe won`t be happy ....slippery slope

To what?  A load of people like you saying "it's world war 3"!

jeeze no not WW3 but if you look at the region and the conflict between Russia and the Ukrain you can see it getting way way out of hand

[Tommy Monk]

Not definately shot down yet either....

[Guest]

Not definately shot down yet either....

Good point!

[eddie]

I think something is going on...

Two Malaysian airlines in in three months???

It's very bad luck.

Ain't luck Andy, there something going on IMO

[Original Quill]

It'll be a very small line.

i think this could give  Russia total leginamicy to wade into the region America won`t be happy Europe won`t be happy ....slippery slope

It was a Russian made Buk missile.  Legitimacy?

Well, you are right about one thing.  It's Europe's problem.

[Guest]

i think this could give  Russia total leginamicy to wade into the region America won`t be happy Europe won`t be happy ....slippery slope

It was a Russian made missile.  Legitimacy?

Well, you are right about one thing.  It's Europe's problem.

lmao

Russian made missile.

[Eilzel]

It's very bad luck.

Ain't luck Andy, there something going on IMO

I don't know Eds. It is a totally different region of the world; and we have a wreckage this time. If this was hit by a missile though then it is going to cause a major escalation in the region.

[Guest]

i think this could give  Russia total leginamicy to wade into the region America won`t be happy Europe won`t be happy ....slippery slope

It was a Russian made Buk missile.  Legitimacy?

Well, you are right about one thing.  It's Europe's problem.

who made the missile if indeed it turns out it was a missile is less important than who fired it


i suspect its quite straight forward

And as the American government has sanctions in place over Russia and its actions the region
To think its just a europe problem is pretty short sited

[Original Quill]

It was a Russian made Buk missile.  Legitimacy?

Well, you are right about one thing.  It's Europe's problem.

who made the missile if indeed it turns out it was a missile is less important than who fired it


i suspect its quite straight forward

And as the American government has sanctions in place over Russia and its actions the region
To think its just a europe problem is pretty short sited

I only meant it's in Europe's region. It's not like a Cold War issue.

The Ukraine Interior Ministry denies it fired the missile. That leaves only Russia and the anti-government, pro-Russian forces in the Ukraine.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/missile-launcher-malaysia-airlines-flight-developed-soviet-union-article-1.1870563

[Irn Bru]

It was a Boeing 777 right enough and the squabbles have started already over who is responsible for it being brought down. This time they have a crash site though and given time they should be able to determine the method.
The aircraft was flying in an area designated a 'confilct area' so questions need to asked about that after EASA issued a Safety Information Bulletin back in April this year. If it was in the area identified in the bulletin then the aircraft operators who set up the flight plan should called in to explain why.

You can read the bulletin here. It's a .pdf file

EASA Safety Information Bulletin

[Guest]

who made the missile if indeed it turns out it was a missile is less important than who fired it


i suspect its quite straight forward

And as the American government has sanctions in place over Russia and its actions the region
To think its just a europe problem is pretty short sited

I only meant it's in Europe's region.  It's not like a Cold War issue.Ah!! ok fair enough

The Ukraine Interior Ministry denies it fired the missile.  That leaves only Russia and the anti-government, pro-Russian forces in the Ukraine.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/missile-launcher-malaysia-airlines-flight-developed-soviet-union-article-1.1870563

well we will have to see who is finally deemed responsible lots of speculation at this point very few facts

[Original Quill]

True KD. At this point anyone can deny...or accuse. We'll have to see.

[Irn Bru]

Given that Schiphol is a Hub airport widely used through out Europe as a gatway it's a fair bet that there will have been British passengers on that flight.

[Guest]

True KD.  At this point anyone can deny...or accuse.  We'll have to see.

Quick observation of all the video footage lacks a smoke trail from a missile ,this would hang in the air for ages but no footage shows that ......i am thinking bomb especially when you consider this is twice Malaysian airlines have been involved in a major incident

[Guest]

[Tommy Monk]

Interesting Korben....



Me thinks the media are being strangely quick in broadcasting that it was shot down by missile....

[Guest]

Putin claims this could have been an assassination attempt as his plane was there an hour earlier

Doesn't the terrorist know the clocks went back?

[Tommy Monk]

Also news is saying can determine if missile fired from satellite imagery.

[Tommy Monk]

Just had a pilot on bbc news saying he looked at the flight path previously taken by planes doing this route over last couple meekp and todays plane was much further north than previously.


Also he said that if he had been given this route over area with conflict then he would have refused it.




Given the downing of supply planes over last few days by rebels, and given that this 777 was similar size, is it possible that this plane was deliberately routed this way in the hope that pro Russian rebels would mistake it for another supply plane, down it, which would then turn the world against them...???

[Cass]

For the families and friends it doesn't matter how cause they wont be coming home



God willing it happened fast and they didn't suffer for long

[Original Quill]

Confirmed it was a missile.  The AP is reporting that Ukraine's security forces have produced a pair of intercepted phone calls that they say provide evidence that pro-Russian rebels are responsible for the attack. At this time, the recordings are unverified.  

"We fucked up," says the separatist, a Russian Army intelligence agent, in the phone call to a regular Russian Army intelligence officer.  

This after a message was intercepted from the separatists telling Ukraine authorities:

It looked like the smoking gun: exactly 35 minutes after Malaysia Airlines flight 17 went down over eastern Ukraine, a social media account belonging to the eastern Ukrainian rebel commander Igor Strelkov posted a message bragging of having "brought down" an aircraft.

"We warned you, stay away from our skies," the message said in Russian, according to translations posted by Russian-speaking reporters. The message was posted at 5:50 pm local time on Thursday; the flight had crashed at 5:15 pm. The post included two videos that appeared to show a large explosion.

Separatists inside Ukraine are covert Russian Army, so it was the Russians, however called.  The missiles, which are mobile, were just sent across the border a couple of days ago and are the basis of new sanctions just announced by the US.  They were either SA-7s or SA11s, by their appearance on US satellite photos.

[Lone Wolf]

   ANOTHER stuff-up by bloody minded trigger-happy terrorist "freedom fighter" groups not worrying about the consequences until everything gos belly-up...

Any claims, counterclaims and so-called "videos" coming out of that zone, I would be very wary of ~ as most of that shite is often put out there simply to obfuscate and confuse issues..

FACTS: A Malaysian Airlines jet with over 300 passengers and crew (inc. more than 20 Aussies..) has been shot down over Ukrainian airspace, most likely by Russian-backed "separatist" rebels.

WESTERN governments are currently putting pressure on the Russian government to denounce this tragedy; AND to agree to support and participate in, and not try to resist, investigations into this latest outrage..

[Lone Wolf]

True KD.  At this point anyone can deny...or accuse.  We'll have to see.

Quick observation of all the video footage lacks a smoke trail from a missile ,this would hang in the air for ages but no footage shows that ......i am thinking bomb especially when you consider this is twice Malaysian airlines have been involved in a major incident

THERE'S also the likelihood that a lot of the so-clled video "evidence" is fake, or from another time and place ?

[Lone Wolf]

I think something is going on...

Two Malaysian airlines in in three months???

  

Yep ~ it's a joint operation by American, British, Russian and Chinese airlines to bump off their competition !

Malaysian Airlines are but the first...

Other small and foreign-owned operators better watch their backs !!!   

[Original Quill]

    ANOTHER stuff-up by bloody minded trigger-happy terrorist "freedom fighter" groups not worrying about the consequences until everything gos belly-up...

Any claims, counterclaims and so-called "videos" coming out of that zone, I would be very wary of ~ as most of that shite is often put out there simply to obfuscate and confuse issues..

FACTS: A Malaysian Airlines jet with over 300 passengers and crew (inc. more than 20 Aussies..) has been shot down over Ukrainian airspace, most likely by Russian-backed "separatist" rebels.

WESTERN governments are currently putting pressure on the Russian government to denounce this tragedy;  AND to agree to support and participate in, and not try to resist, investigations into this latest outrage..  

The Ukraine separatists are neither terrorists nor "Russian-backed" rebels. They are regular Russian Army, drawn from the Intelligence Service. There is no genuine insurgency. There are two, not three factions here. Russia has put units of the Russian Army into Ukraine in order to make it appear as if there is an indigenous insurgent faction.

Truth is, Russia is retaking the Ukraine.

[Lone Wolf]

Was just about to post this up!

Another plane full of Malaysians?????

THE plane wasn't "full of Malaysians", eddie...

It was traveling from Amsterdam to KL ..

Being an international flight, the passengers are from several different countries..
Including Australia, an early list of passengers had :

154 Netherlands,
27 Australia,
23 Malaysia,
11 Indonesia,
6 UK,
4 Germany,
4 Belgium,
3 Philippines,
1 Canada..

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2426141/malaysian-airlines-flight-shot-down-over-ukraine-with-27-australians-on-board/?cs=303

[Lone Wolf]

I only meant it's in Europe's region.  It's not like a Cold War issue.Ah!! ok fair enough

The Ukraine Interior Ministry denies it fired the missile.  That leaves only Russia and the anti-government, pro-Russian forces in the Ukraine.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/missile-launcher-malaysia-airlines-flight-developed-soviet-union-article-1.1870563

well we will have to see who is finally deemed responsible lots of speculation at this point very few facts

  

NO DOUBT, once smellybum' and his new girly-man-chum "the Puzzler" crawl their way onto this discussion, they can regale us in their supreme insights into such tragic affairs...

WHEREUPON that 'orrible little neo-nazi "Puzzler" will claim that it's actually the responsibility of every left-leaning "commie" insurgent on this forum;
AND then he/she/it will call me "a disgrace" for pointing out his true nature..

SMELLY' can then attempt to redirect this thread by pointing the blame at Sexy Mamma, Quill, sassy, Didge, KD, Fuzzy, scrat and Handy Andy, and anyone else that comes to mind.    ::drnkpst::

[nicko]

Lone wolf, you have a persecution complex, see a doctor A.S.A.P.

[gerber]

Both black boxes recovered, but who has them ?

Will they be adulterated before they are handed over to the correct investigation..............

The offer of safe passage to the crash site also been denied by the Russians on the ground.

[Guest]

Read a piece that says the black boxes have been taken to Russia, they are Malaysian property and they want them back.

[gerber]

Read a piece that says the black boxes have been taken to Russia, they are Malaysian property and they want them back.  

Morning..................

So they will be returned in their entirety without being messed with...me thinks not. Why should Russia want them if the Russians as they claim are not involved.

Nine Britons no stated as being on board, 41 not identified........ They must know who they are from the flight manifest.

What has disturbed me most is the pile of passports filmed at the site. They would have been in passengers bags..

[Guest]

I saw that picture to and them talking about bodies falling out of the plane with their clothes having been blown off. Just awful.

[Lone Wolf]

  Re: Black Boxes -

IT was reported earlier that either Ukrainian separatists or the Russian military itself had them ~ as it was the "rebels" who first claimed to have recovered them.

THE USA had then demanded that the Black Boxes should be handed over to authorities, to be made available to an international investigation..

*******************************************************

Figures being updated regularly during the day :  

298 dead;

Australians now 28 dead, from 27 earlier; plus one New Zealander who was resident in Oz..

*******************************************************

Australia's government is already demanding that we should have officials, Fed' police and air-crash investigators involved in any investigations into this disaster ~ only natural since Australia has the second highest number of casualties..

And as neighboring countries here, like Indonesia and Malaysia, do often ask for help from Aus'&NZ investigators, it is probable that Aussie investigators could be seconded to them as well...   

[Guest]

Pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine are to give international investigators access to the crash site of a Malaysia Airlines jet.

The rebels vowed to secure the site and allow the recovery of bodies, the Organization for the Security and Co-operation in Europe said.

The plane, carrying 298 people, crashed in rebel-held territory on Thursday.

The two sides in Ukraine's civil conflict have accused each other of shooting the jet down with a missile.

The Boeing 777 was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. It fell between Krasni Luch in Luhansk region and Shakhtarsk in the neighbouring region of Donetsk.

Malaysia Airlines said flight MH17 was carrying at least 154 Dutch nationals, 27 Australians, 43 Malaysians (including 15 crew), 12 Indonesians and nine Britons.

Other passengers came from Germany, Belgium, the Philippines and Canada. The dead include world-renowned Dutch researcher Joep Lange who was among a number of passengers en route to an international Aids conference in Australia.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-28361908

[gerber]

" The Ukrainian Interior Ministry said 23 US citizens were travelling on the aircraft and nationalities of the remaining passengers were still being confirmed."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-plane-crash-boeing-jet-carrying-295-people-crashes-in-ukraine-9612882.html

" Among the 283 passengers and 15 crew on board were nine Britons, 154 Dutch, 43 Malaysians, 27 Australians, 12 Indonesians, four Germans, four Belgians, three Filipinos and one Canadian."

http://news.sky.com/story/1303136/answers-demanded-after-jet-blown-out-of-sky


Only media to mention US on board. OB has been very muted. A US citizen killed normally provokes action from White House.

[Guest]

Latest new is Putin has demanded an enquiry.

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