Immigration: No More Pandering to Prejudice

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 5:35 am

First topic message reminder :

Immigration is good. There, I've said it. Now I wait to be struck down by a thunder bolt.

A country that attracts immigrants is a healthy country. It boasts a growing economy, a stable society, and offers a safe environment for children to grow up in. Its people live under the rule of law, with freedom of speech and of religion. It's a country of which I'm immeasurably proud to be a citizen.

Without immigrants, Britain would be a much poorer place. It would be hungrier, dirtier and less healthy. It's immigrants who pick and pack the food that we eat, immigrants who clean our offices and streets, immigrants who keep the NHS going and care for the elderly in their homes and nursing homes. (A quarter of NHS doctors are non-British, and according to the British Medical Association, "many NHS services would struggle to provide effective care to their patients" without non-British staff.)

In many of our biggest towns and cities, it's immigrants and their British-born children who drive the buses, trains and taxis, and immigrants who serve us our early morning coffee on the way to work. If they all went on strike on the same day, the country would quickly grind to a stand-still.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/robin-lustig/immigration-prejudice_b_5411982.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Excellent article and I have seen a massive change in regards to many of these types of articles since UKIP won the EU election. The view has been to stop providing UKIP with mass media exposure with publicity with fear stories of their members and actually take the arguments to UKIP on their views, this article being yet one of many similar in the last few days.
This is the way forward to show to many people why UKIP are wrong, you play them at their own game and take the center of attention back away from them, which they strived for in the first place to win votes. This way is better, take on their policies and not them as people, it then shows the party is wrong and they cannot use excuses like some of their members are loonies, they are thus seen as a party as wrong.

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 10:55 am

nicko wrote:Didge, I am sorry you think I failed to answer some of you posts, but I am not on here all day, I do have another life [admittedly not as good as yours].

You do not have to be on here all day, as neither am i and do not spend my evenings on here and when I am on, I look back to previous debates, so I am sorry Nicko, that is a complete copout answer again.

Do not play the guilt card on me mate with saying your life is not as good as mine, I hate the fact you are suffering with illness as you well know and as seen have defended you against such poor slants at your health

by The Puzzler Sat May 31, 2014 10:59 am

Didge wrote:
The Puzzler wrote:
When are you planning on letting some immigrants live in your house then?

Already have one, my wife, who is from South Africa.

Talk about yet again a daft counter, so now you are saying that immigrants expect people here to allow them rent free accommodation, when most actually privately rent?
Seriously, did you get knocked on your head as a baby?

I never mentioned anything about 'rent free', once again you're arguing against something you've made up

Go on, you think we should be so sharing, and let the whole world come and live here so maybe you should lead by example and let a Roma family rent your house. You could always sleep on the sofa and you'll get a lovely warm feeling inside from being so generous.

by Tommy Monk Sat May 31, 2014 11:01 am

Piss off Didge you are a complete nob.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/01/07/britain-immigration-survey-idINDEEA0603G20140107

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 11:04 am

The Puzzler wrote:
Didge wrote:

Already have one, my wife, who is from South Africa.

Talk about yet again a daft counter, so now you are saying that immigrants expect people here to allow them rent free accommodation, when most actually privately rent?
Seriously, did you get knocked on your head as a baby?
I never mentioned anything about 'rent free', once again you're arguing against something you've made up Go on, you think we should be so sharing, and let the whole world come and live here so maybe you should lead by example and let a Roma family rent your house. You could always sleep on the sofa and you'll get a lovely warm feeling inside from being so generous.

You made an idiotic argument based off if I would allow immigrants to live with me?
This would mean rent free, as are you now saying if people rent out rooms in their house as i am happy to do so that it can only be British people? Seriously do you even think before you post?
So now you make yet another fear argument basing this now on the Roma, who are just one of countless ethnic groups in this country

Seriously, I suggest a few slaps from yourself, to your own face when you wake up every day, it may help you see some sense

by The Puzzler Sat May 31, 2014 11:05 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Piss off Didge you are a complete nob.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/01/07/britain-immigration-survey-idINDEEA0603G20140107

This is the point where Didge sticks his fingers in his ears and shouts 'NOT LISTENING, NOT LISTENING'.

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 11:06 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Piss off Didge you are a complete nob.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/01/07/britain-immigration-survey-idINDEEA0603G20140107

How does that mean anything on my point on sharing?

Less means controlled, not stopping immigration as well.

So again showing me views that many people are selfish does not mean it is okay to be selfish does it?

by The Puzzler Sat May 31, 2014 11:10 am

Didge wrote:
The Puzzler wrote:
I never mentioned anything about 'rent free', once again you're arguing against something you've made up Go on, you think we should be so sharing, and let the whole world come and live here so maybe you should lead by example and let a Roma family rent your house. You could always sleep on the sofa and you'll get a lovely warm feeling inside from being so generous.

You made an idiotic argument based off if I would allow immigrants to live with me?
This would mean rent free, as are you now saying if people rent out rooms in their house as i am happy to do so that it can only be British people? Seriously do you even think before you post?
So now you make yet another fear argument basing this now on the Roma, who are just one of countless ethnic groups in this country

Seriously, I suggest a few slaps from yourself, to your own face when you wake up every day, it may help you see some sense

Stop making things up and argue against what I'm actually saying. You say it's selfish not to 'share' our country with the whole worldm so you should lead by example and let some immigrants rent your house. It might be overcrowded and you might even have to sleep on the floor but at least you'll have that warm feeling of sharing.

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 11:13 am

The Puzzler wrote:
Didge wrote:

You made an idiotic argument based off if I would allow immigrants to live with me?
This would mean rent free, as are you now saying if people rent out rooms in their house as i am happy to do so that it can only be British people? Seriously do you even think before you post?
So now you make yet another fear argument basing this now on the Roma, who are just one of countless ethnic groups in this country

Seriously, I suggest a few slaps from yourself, to your own face when you wake up every day, it may help you see some sense
Stop making things up and argue against what I'm actually saying. You say it's selfish not to 'share' our country with the whole worldm so you should lead by example and let some immigrants rent your house. It might be overcrowded and you might even have to sleep on the floor but at least you'll have that warm feeling of sharing.

Already stated am happy to share my house which as seen you miss, so your argument back fired and failed and was as seen idiotic that of the mind of a child.
I grew up as a family of 12 with having to share a room with 4 brothers and was some of the best times in my life, showing again you do not even have a conception of over crowding with even experience, as seen I do.

by The Puzzler Sat May 31, 2014 11:18 am

It's a bit early to get pissed Didge. You could at least wait til after 12. ::drnkpst::

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 11:20 am

The Puzzler wrote:It's a bit early to get pissed Didge. You could at least wait til after 12. ::drnkpst::

Eh?

Oh my someone is ousting who they are ha ha

I do not drink alcohol anymore, so how can I get pissed when I do not drink?

Talk about having exhausted all his poor arguments

Score mate ha ha

::D::

by The Puzzler Sat May 31, 2014 11:23 am

Well there goes a good excuse for the state of your posts.

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 11:24 am

The Puzzler wrote:Well there goes a good excuse for the state of your posts.

You mean you have no counter and are looking for excuses as to how you can divert not being able to counter them, ha ha

Seriously are you still in school?

Or just Hugh?

by The Puzzler Sat May 31, 2014 11:30 am

Didge wrote:
The Puzzler wrote:Well there goes a good excuse for the state of your posts.

You mean you have no counter and are looking for excuses as to how you can divert not being able to counter them, ha ha

Seriously are you still in school?

Or just Hugh?

No, just hungover, might have a joint or 2 later though. Why aren't you renting your house out to a family of immigrants right now, and giving up your bedroom for them, if you're so happy to share? Or is it that you expect 'society' to do all the sharing while you fail to practice what you preach?

by scrat Sat May 31, 2014 11:31 am

Immigration is an issue, it's an issue that's being addressed, the integration of various cultures is a process of evolution, it's a challenge but an inevitability as we stumble towards globalisation.

I've yet to see any alternative to this state of affairs, other than anarchy.

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 11:34 am

The Puzzler wrote:
Didge wrote:

You mean you have no counter and are looking for excuses as to how you can divert not being able to counter them, ha ha

Seriously are you still in school?

Or just Hugh?
No, just hungover, might have a joint or 2 later though. Why aren't you renting your house out to a family of immigrants right now, and giving up your bedroom for them, if you're so happy to share? Or is it that you expect 'society' to do all the sharing while you fail to practice what you preach?

Why do I need to rent out my room, when I live in it, if people come over I give up this room so they can share my house.
Talk about a failed argument because again as seen i am happy to share my house, where this is not about people coming here to share house but to share a massive land space you wish to deny them, your argument has no validity on that.
It also shows how separate your arguments have become ha ha

So in other words you are no doubt still pissed, it would explain your ignorance here, so won't hold it against you

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 11:40 am

Anyway really have to go, but the argument to share your house is absurd, as many people are not being asked to share their house but the land they live in, so again why cannot people share this land?

Laters

by The Puzzler Sat May 31, 2014 11:40 am

Didge wrote:
The Puzzler wrote:
No, just hungover, might have a joint or 2 later though. Why aren't you renting your house out to a family of immigrants right now, and giving up your bedroom for them, if you're so happy to share? Or is it that you expect 'society' to do all the sharing while you fail to practice what you preach?

Why do I need to rent out my room, when I live in it, if people come over I give up this room so they can share my house.
Talk about a failed argument because again as seen i am happy to share my house, where this is not about people coming here to share house but to share a massive land space you wish to deny them, your argument has no validity on that.
It also shows how separate your arguments have become ha ha

So in other words you are no doubt still pissed, it would explain your ignorance here, so won't hold it against you

These people aren't living off the land though are they, they're impacting an already extremely strained housing market which is why I used the analogy of you giving up your room, your primary living space. We can't even house our own anymore so how are we to be expected to cope with many more influxes of economic migrants? It's all well and good saying the whole world should be able to live here, but we don't have the space or the infrastructure. And I for one don't want our beautiful countryside turned into one big concrete jungle just to accomodate 200 million + people. Japan has survived as a small island with little to no mass immigration, why can't we?

by The Puzzler Sat May 31, 2014 11:42 am

Didge wrote:Anyway really have to go, but the argument to share your house is absurd, as many people are not being asked to share their house but the land they live in, so again why cannot people share this land?

Laters

We are being asked to share what little housing we have left, not just the land, so yes my argument does hold up. Hope you can see your hypocrisy when you come back!

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 11:47 am

The Puzzler wrote:
Didge wrote:

Why do I need to rent out my room, when I live in it, if people come over I give up this room so they can share my house.
Talk about a failed argument because again as seen i am happy to share my house, where this is not about people coming here to share house but to share a massive land space you wish to deny them, your argument has no validity on that.
It also shows how separate your arguments have become ha ha

So in other words you are no doubt still pissed, it would explain your ignorance here, so won't hold it against you
These people aren't living off the land though are they, they're impacting an already extremely strained housing market which is why I used the analogy of you giving up your room, your primary living space. We can't even house our own anymore so how are we to be expected to cope with many more influxes of economic migrants? It's all well and good saying the whole world should be able to live here, but we don't have the space or the infrastructure. And I for one don't want our beautiful countryside turned into one big concrete jungle just to accomodate 200 million + people. Japan has survived as a small island with little to no mass immigration, why can't we?

Yes these immigrants are benefiting the nation to the point many pay taxes and pay into the economy so much so this country has vast foreign investment which without Britain would be in the same boat as many eastern European nations, but hey lets ignore the facts shall we.
The fact is your argument on housing is idiotic, because the problem of housing is a problem without them, being as seen by economics that Britain has a shortfall growing per year in excess of 250,000 house, so it is down to resolve this, not cast this onto immigrants.
Again the world populations growing is the problem and to say Britain should be selfish and go it alone will not work, as seen countries would do the same back and many will suffer by such a poor policy, as many cannot sustain their countries on their own, Britain cannot either.
Again you do not solve a world issue by being selfish and thinking locally and saying you want to deny people coming here when as seen it was Europeans that colonised and changed the demographics of a quarter of the world if not more, is poor to say the least.
So you need to learn to live with people, not deny them being here because you are as seen by your arguments playing on poor fear arguments.

Again only 7% of this nation is Urbanized, that is fuck all

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 12:06 pm

scrat wrote:Immigration is an issue, it's an issue that's being addressed, the integration of various cultures is a process of evolution, it's a challenge but an inevitability as we stumble towards globalisation.

I've yet to see any alternative to this state of affairs, other than anarchy.

That's exactly what we need. Anarchy.

Immigration: No More Pandering to Prejudice - Page 2 Aaammm10

by scrat Sat May 31, 2014 12:26 pm

Tesstacious wrote:
scrat wrote:Immigration is an issue, it's an issue that's being addressed, the integration of various cultures is a process of evolution, it's a challenge but an inevitability as we stumble towards globalisation.

I've yet to see any alternative to this state of affairs, other than anarchy.

That's exactly what we need. Anarchy.

Hi Tess, I'm not sure it needs to come to that, but it's a distinct possibility.

At this moment in time people seem to want capitalism, they just accept the life they've been given and the way things are, capitalism is globalisation and we're marching into a globalised future quick step.

Immigration is simply a side issue used to control the cost of labour.

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 1:09 pm

scrat wrote:
Tesstacious wrote:
That's exactly what we need. Anarchy.

Hi Tess, I'm not sure it needs to come to that, but it's a distinct possibility.

At this moment in time people seem to want capitalism, they just accept the life they've been given and the way things are, capitalism is globalisation and we're marching into a globalised future quick step.

Immigration is simply a side issue used to control the cost of labour.

Morning Scrat.

Couldn't agree more. Most numpties can't see it though - the only ones who can are on my conspiracy site, but they all get dismissed as loonies! Well, time will tell...

by Fluffyx Sat May 31, 2014 6:28 pm

You will have anarchy and the stupid RW government you want because Labour are pretty much RW and it will either be them or..UKIP for the Love of God.

Labour are the best of a bad lot but they are not the Labour of old and they not the Labour I want. Voting for them is purely tactical to keep the real nuts out.

What are you all so afraid of? Losing your identity,what does that even mean? Having different colours and cultures in a country doesn't distract from your own.Everyone being so diverse and different is what makes this country great,only people can't see that.

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 7:22 pm

Didge wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Too much of anything is bad for you.....!!!!
And as far as immigration is concerned, we have definately had too much, in fact we are sick of it!!!!
We don't want or need any more immigrants!!!!!
They can stay at home or go elsewhere. We are full.

So too much love is bad for you?
Too much kindness is bad for you?
Too much caring is bad for you?

Sorry you missed the last sign post at the last junction, it said turn left for ignorance.

We are not full as seen and it is idiots like you promoting hate and fear of people that are a problem, as seen countless times in history, who as seen again are nothing more than selfish brats. You do not own this country and harp on about you not being asked with respecting your views, well many others also have views, which as a majority outweigh yours, so why do you not respect their views?

Again as stated before:

The world is getting more and more populated

In which case...why are they moving from countries that are far less densely populated in terms of people /sq mile to here??

what is the population of pakistan
what is its population

etc etc etc...

which is the real problem that needs to be resolved, not people saying you cannot come and live on my piece of land, because I was here first, because as seen millions leave here to move to many different pieces of land also.

what you mean is "our bit of land is "nicer"

Thus the point should be on people looking to sort the global problem, because tackling a local problem, does not stop the bigger problem of a global population rise. If you cut yourself off from others, they can replicate the same back to this country whilst trading still with the rest of the world. Thus we do not have the luxury to close the door fully on immigration because we do not have the resources to support this country on its own.
Immigration needs controlling but not scapegoating them.

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 7:24 pm

Irrelevant to ask why someone is moving, because many people move away for what ever reason, not if their own country has what you class as space, when we have ample space.

So again moot point to the points I made, as the world is getting more populated, your argument again looks only locally, now to where someone comes from a bigger country, which again is absurd

by The Puzzler Sat May 31, 2014 7:27 pm

Why do you think so many asylum seekers choose to pass through several safe European countries just to get here Didge? Do you support that as well? What's the maximum population you think we could sustain, 100 million, 200, or more? Come on, you need to clarify this as you seem to think we have unlimited space just because we have a lot of countryside.

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 7:32 pm

The Puzzler wrote:Why do you think so many asylum seekers choose to pass through several safe European countries just to get here Didge? Do you support that as well? What's the maximum population you think we could sustain, 100 million, 200, or more? Come on, you need to clarify this as you seem to think we have unlimited space just because we have a lot of countryside.

Oh here we go, 2% of them you mean, I do not care how many countries they come through to get here, as there is no law against them doing that, because if they are asylum seekers they are coming here to seek asylum in a country they generally are aware of through that countries history with Britain. So if you know about the history and praise of a good Restaurant, you will choose that over ones you have no idea on.

Nobody has unlimited space, why the next step will be in space itself, the reality is your argument again is to your own selfish view of being lucky enough to be born here to think you can deny others a place in this country, which as seen is absurd.
The problem is a globally problem and as seen you will not resolve it locally, so that means all nations working together to combat the rise or look for ways to have more space for people to live or control the population growths.

by The Puzzler Sat May 31, 2014 7:54 pm

Didge wrote:
The Puzzler wrote:Why do you think so many asylum seekers choose to pass through several safe European countries just to get here Didge? Do you support that as well? What's the maximum population you think we could sustain, 100 million, 200, or more? Come on, you need to clarify this as you seem to think we have unlimited space just because we have a lot of countryside.

Oh here we go, 2% of them you mean, I do not care how many countries they come through to get here, as there is no law against them doing that, because if they are asylum seekers they are coming here to seek asylum in a country they generally are aware of through that countries history with Britain. So if you know about the history and praise of a good Restaurant, you will choose that over ones you have no idea on.

Nobody has unlimited space, why the next step will be in space itself, the reality is your argument again is to your own selfish view of being lucky enough to be born here to think you can deny others a place in this country, which as seen is absurd.
The problem is a globally problem and as seen you will not resolve it locally, so that means all nations working together to combat the rise or look for ways to have more space for people to live or control the population growths.

You haven't answered my last question, how many people do you think this country's infrastructure could sustain, bearing in mind that's it's already at breaking point. Genuine asylum seekers would settle in the first safe country they come to, that they cross the whole of Europe just to get here says they know that Britain is a soft touch - kind of like a 5 star restaurant that allows you to eat for free. I know if I was fleeing torture/persecution I wouldn't want to travel any further than I had to to reach safety, never mind crossing a whole continent to get to a tiny overcrowded island.

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 7:58 pm

The Puzzler wrote:
Didge wrote:

Oh here we go, 2% of them you mean, I do not care how many countries they come through to get here, as there is no law against them doing that, because if they are asylum seekers they are coming here to seek asylum in a country they generally are aware of through that countries history with Britain. So if you know about the history and praise of a good Restaurant, you will choose that over ones you have no idea on.

Nobody has unlimited space, why the next step will be in space itself, the reality is your argument again is to your own selfish view of being lucky enough to be born here to think you can deny others a place in this country, which as seen is absurd.
The problem is a globally problem and as seen you will not resolve it locally, so that means all nations working together to combat the rise or look for ways to have more space for people to live or control the population growths.

You haven't answered my last question, how many people do you think this country's infrastructure could sustain, bearing in mind that's it's already at breaking point. Genuine asylum seekers would settle in the first safe country they come to, that they cross the whole of Europe just to get here says they know that Britain is a soft touch - kind of like a 5 star restaurant that allows you to eat for free. I know if I was fleeing torture/persecution I wouldn't want to travel any further than I had to to reach safety, never mind crossing a whole continent to get to a tiny overcrowded island.

No idea on how many people, but it can sustain the ability to do so and vastly more so.
Why would genuine asylum seekers seek the first nation if they have little knowledge of that nation? Mnay though in fact do , because do you know where many seek asylum? Again you missed the point many will attempt to get to a place they know about which in many cases you will find many asylum seekers from nations with history with Britain.
Actually says much about how good our country is

by scrat Sat May 31, 2014 8:37 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:You will have anarchy and the stupid RW government you want because Labour are pretty much RW and it will either be them or..UKIP for the Love of God.

Labour are the best of a bad lot but they are not the Labour of old and they not the Labour I want. Voting for them is purely tactical to keep the real nuts out.

What are you all so afraid of? Losing your identity,what does that even mean? Having different colours and cultures in a country doesn't distract from your own.Everyone being so diverse and different is what makes this country great,only people can't see that.

Hi Fluffybunny, you're quite correct Labour are the best of a bad bunch, they get my vote on financial and social issues, however there is less and less to choose between the governing party's of capitalism these days, the rush toward globalisation is the mission statement and end game, if you put UKIPpers madness policies to one side you'll see that they'll follow the capitalist line just like everyone else.

If globalisation is everything you want for that's all well and good, so long as the issues of infrastructure and social cohesion are being addressed, if they're not, then I agree with Tess, Anarchy is the only realistic alternative, to a life of capitalist slavery, because let's be honest, that's all this is.

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