UPDATE: Malaysian P.M. says wreckage in satellite images was missing Malaysian flight

First topic message reminder :

In what officials called the "best lead" of the nearly two-week-old aviation mystery, a satellite detected two objects floating about 1,000 miles off the coast of Australia and halfway to the desolate islands of the Antarctic.
The development raised new hope of finding the vanished jet and sent another emotional jolt to the families of the 239 people aboard.

Sarah Bajc, whose boyfriend, American Philip Wood, was aboard the plane, is one of those anxiously awaiting news.

"I'm desperate to hear it is an airplane wing and there are survivors clinging to it, and one of them is Philip," she told CBS News by email. "I'm apprehensive it will be unrelated and the wait will just continue after many more hours of misery."

"I am prepared for dead bodies," she wrote, "but I am not prepared for never knowing."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-370-possible-debris-from-missing-plane-spotted/

UPDATE link: http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/24/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

eddie wrote:

Nems wrote:

So far no confirmed wreckage in the ocean Edds.

Oh! Though I have to say, I agree with harves, I've always thought it was on dry land.

Poor families. Seriously. The not knowing and dragged-out hope must be horrific.

I am lost with this now, poor families indeed. I cant imagine their pain.

I still think it must've flown under another plane's radar.
It's really weird.

eddie wrote:I still think it must've flown under another plane's radar.
It's really weird.

I agree, the only thing we know for sure is that it was not accidental whatever 'it' was

Nems wrote:

eddie wrote:I still think it must've flown under another plane's radar.
It's really weird.

I agree, the only thing we know for sure is that it was not accidental whatever 'it' was

I agree.

Nems wrote:

Sassy wrote:When you have listened to the crews telling of the difficulties they have in getting to the debris, even when a plane has it on video and has dropped a marker, then Quill posts become wonderful - fantastic comedy value.

239 families in torment and having a pop at Quill is still paramount.
Comedy value? Shameful

Meh...she just goes on and on, Nems.  She's still wound up from a sassy-posse shitfest down in the miscellany  section.  Brush her aside and pay no mind.

I'm afraid all efforts at locating flight 370 are a waste of time and money as of now.  They don't even know on which side of the equator to look.

Oh shut up you silly fart. What is shameful is your pops at the people doing their very best in extremely difficult circumstances to find what they can in a place the size of the Indian Ocean. Absolutely disgusting.

Original Quill wrote:

Nems wrote:

239 families in torment and having a pop at Quill is still paramount.
Comedy value? Shameful

Meh...she just goes on and on, Nems.  She's still wound up from a sassy-posse shitfest down in the miscellany  section.  Brush her aside and pay no mind.

I'm afraid all efforts at locating flight 370 are a waste of time and money as of now.  They don't even know on which side of the equator to look.

You're right Quill.
Apologies if this has been gone over ( I skim cut and paste land) when a plane goes to a different air traffic control, isnt their a procedure for hand over? I mean when they didnt check in with new air traffic control wouldnt that cause a radar search, would they have alerted any other air traffic that contact was lost? Did it take a oddly long time to decide it was missing?

Oh do stop licking, it's disgusting.

Plus, when a pilot says goodnight to one radar system and goes out of their area, they don't hear what he says to the radar system taking over.

Sassy wrote:Oh do stop licking, it's disgusting.

Why dont you Foxtrot Oscar?
Dont you dare start again you sad old sod
Christ you are not happy unless you are having a go at someone
Get a fucking like for Gawds sake

Nems wrote:

Original Quill wrote:


Meh...she just goes on and on, Nems.  She's still wound up from a sassy-posse shitfest down in the miscellany  section.  Brush her aside and pay no mind.

I'm afraid all efforts at locating flight 370 are a waste of time and money as of now.  They don't even know on which side of the equator to look.

You're right Quill.
Apologies if this has been gone over ( I skim cut and paste land) when a plane goes to a different air traffic control, isnt their a procedure for hand over? I mean when they didnt check in with new air traffic control wouldnt that cause a radar search, would they have alerted any other air traffic that contact was lost? Did it take a oddly long time to decide it was missing?

It is the procedure, you are right Nems.  

In this case, Malaysian control handed the flight off, but neither HCM City nor flight 370 bothered to establish any kind of contact.  Indeed, this was within minutes, if not seconds of when the plane switched off the transponders and made a change in course due west, thence up the Malaecca Strait to the Bay of Bengal.  From there, there is no definitive evidence of where it went.

Original Quill wrote:

Nems wrote:

You're right Quill.
Apologies if this has been gone over ( I skim cut and paste land) when a plane goes to a different air traffic control, isnt their a procedure for hand over? I mean when they didnt check in with new air traffic control wouldnt that cause a radar search, would they have alerted any other air traffic that contact was lost? Did it take a oddly long time to decide it was missing?

It is the procedure, you are right.  In this case, Malaysian control handed the flight off, but neither HCM City nor flight 370 bothered to establish any kind of contact.  Indeed, this was within minutes, if not seconds of when the plane switched off the transponders and made a change in course due west, thence up the Malaecca Strait to the Bay of Bengal.  From there, there is no definitive evidence of where it went.

Is that unusual? For HCM City I mean

You shut up.   I did a thread for you to try and be civil, put you quite deliberately were nasty on it.   So don't expect me to cut you any quarter.   Blimely, you are now known as one of the Diversion Molls on Quill's pay cheque, it's rather funny and quite transparent.

And Quill as normal is talking bollocks, they were tracked, by the pings by satellites.

Yes...well, experts here have expressed surprise that HCM City didn't raise any alarms.

I guess there is no responsibility on either side to pick up the contact. Or, at least in this part of the world. Apparently they wait for the aircraft to establish the contact.

In ANY part of the world. Bigot!

Sassy wrote:You shut up.   I did a thread for you to try and be civil, put you quite deliberately were nasty on it.   So don't expect me to cut you any quarter.   Blimely, you are now known as one of the Diversion Molls on Quill's pay cheque, it's rather funny and quite transparent.

And Quill as normal is talking bollocks, they were tracked, by the pings by satellites.

Sincerest apologies one tends to forget you are an expert on fucking everything.

Sassy wrote:You shut up.   I did a thread for you to try and be civil, put you quite deliberately were nasty on it.   So don't expect me to cut you any quarter.   Blimely, you are now known as one of the Diversion Molls on Quill's pay cheque, it's rather funny and quite transparent.

Will you get the fook out of the way and let people who are interested in the subject of the thread talk, sassy.  Go down to your shitfest in miscellany and post something there.

Sassy wrote:And Quill as normal is talking bollocks, they were tracked, by the pings by satellites.

Apparently, Nems, there is a new technology which allows the authorities to follow a ACARS contact, and that went off every hour or so.  But it is completely new, and untested procedure. It has never received validation, and people are grasping at anything by now.

My Dad helped set up Singapore and Malaysia's radar system, I spent some time in Control Towers watching and listening.

And I can read what has been said about what happened, and that was how they were tracked.

Original Quill wrote:Yes...well, experts here have expressed surprise that HCM City didn't raise any alarms.

I guess there is no responsibility on either side to pick up the contact.  Or, at least in this part of the world.  Apparently they wait for the aircraft to establish the contact.

So we know something was wrong on board, was that just further exacerbated by lack of contact by HCM?
Another thing, the pilot climbed the aircraft and that causes hypoxia is that right? thats why no one else appears to have tried to contact anyone during all those hours.

Original Quill wrote:

Sassy wrote:You shut up.   I did a thread for you to try and be civil, put you quite deliberately were nasty on it.   So don't expect me to cut you any quarter.   Blimely, you are now known as one of the Diversion Molls on Quill's pay cheque, it's rather funny and quite transparent.

Will you get the fook out of the way and let people who are interested in the subject of the thread talk.  Go down to your shitfest in miscellany and post something there.

Sassy wrote:And Quill as normal is talking bollocks, they were tracked, by the pings by satellites.

Apparently, Nems, there is a new technology which allows the authorities to follow a ACARS contact, and that went off every hour or so.  But it is completely new, and untested procedure.

But who is the plane sending contact to?

Original Quill wrote:

Sassy wrote:You shut up.   I did a thread for you to try and be civil, put you quite deliberately were nasty on it.   So don't expect me to cut you any quarter.   Blimely, you are now known as one of the Diversion Molls on Quill's pay cheque, it's rather funny and quite transparent.

Will you get the fook out of the way and let people who are interested in the subject of the thread talk.  Go down to your shitfest in miscellany and post something there.

Sassy wrote:And Quill as normal is talking bollocks, they were tracked, by the pings by satellites.

Apparently, Nems, there is a new technology which allows the authorities to follow a ACARS contact, and that went off every hour or so.  But it is completely new, and untested procedure.

Jeez, if you actually read, the technology is not new, the methods of calculation are.

Nems wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Yes...well, experts here have expressed surprise that HCM City didn't raise any alarms.

I guess there is no responsibility on either side to pick up the contact.  Or, at least in this part of the world.  Apparently they wait for the aircraft to establish the contact.

So we know something was wrong on board, was that just further exacerbated by lack of contact by HCM?
Another thing, the pilot climbed the aircraft and that causes hypoxia is that right? thats why no one else appears to have tried to contact anyone during all those hours.

No, the people who designed the 777 at Boeing say the aircraft could never have climbed to the altitude they claim. Keep in mind, they are reading little, tiny pings from a non-transponding system. It's brand new technology and has never been tested. They hardly know if it gives accurate direction, and changes in altitude are just anomalies in contact points.

The engineers at Boeing suggest the plane flew steadily at 28,000-feet.

Original Quill wrote:

Nems wrote:

So we know something was wrong on board, was that just further exacerbated by lack of contact by HCM?
Another thing, the pilot climbed the aircraft and that causes hypoxia is that right? thats why no one else appears to have tried to contact anyone during all those hours.

No, the people who designed the 777 at Boeing say the aircraft could never have climbed to the altitude they claim.  Keep in mind, they are reading little, tiny pings from a non-transponding system.  It's brand new technology and has never been tested.  They hardly know if it gives accurate direction, and changes in altitude are just anomalies in contact points.

The engineers at Boeing suggest the plane flew steadily at 28,000-feet.

Bloody odd
Not a peep out of passengers or crew

Nems wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Will you get the fook out of the way and let people who are interested in the subject of the thread talk.  Go down to your shitfest in miscellany and post something there.



Apparently, Nems, there is a new technology which allows the authorities to follow a ACARS contact, and that went off every hour or so.  But it is completely new, and untested procedure.

But who is the plane sending contact to?

The ACAR system is a neat little feature of the 777 that transmits into the atmosphere generally all the current data on the working of the engines. It can be picked up by anyone who subscribes to a service--whomever is in charge, either Boeing or Rolls Royce. And you can pay for varying amounts of information--kind of like cable TV, you pay for the stations.

In the US, every major airline subscribes fully to ACARS, but not so Malaysia Airlines. The US government, as well as its military, subscribe so they can monitor every aircraft in the air. Apparently, that is where it was picked up.

Now ACARS can be switch off. But the satellite will still ping the aircraft, inquiring if it wishes to send data---every hour or so. It is this ping that was picked up. Apparently, they can tell from it where the plane is. But, it is untested technology, never used before. I have my doubts as to its validity.

Sassy wrote:My Dad helped set up Singapore and Malaysia's radar system, I spent some time in Control Towers watching and listening.

And I can read what has been said about what happened, and that was how they were tracked.

Your dad helped set up the radar system for Malaysia and Singapore? Serious?

Original Quill wrote:

Nems wrote:

But who is the plane sending contact to?

The ACAR system is a neat little feature of the 777 that transmits into the atmosphere generally all the current data on the working of the engines.  It can be picked up by anyone who subscribes to a service--whomever is in charge, either Boeing or Rolls Royce.  And you can pay for varying amounts of information--kind of like cable TV, you pay for the stations.  

In the US, every major airline subscribes fully to ACARS, but not so Malaysia Airlines.  The US government, as well as its military, subscribe so they can monitor every aircraft in the air.  Apparently, that is where it was picked up.

Now ACARS can be switch off.  But the satellite will still ping the aircraft, inquiring if it wishes to send data---every hour or so.  It is this ping that was picked up.  Apparently, they can tell from it where the plane is.  But, it is untested technology, never used before.  I have my doubts as to its validity.

Right and is this the technology that has lead some to think it crashed into the ocean?

Nems wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

No, the people who designed the 777 at Boeing say the aircraft could never have climbed to the altitude they claim.  Keep in mind, they are reading little, tiny pings from a non-transponding system.  It's brand new technology and has never been tested.  They hardly know if it gives accurate direction, and changes in altitude are just anomalies in contact points.

The engineers at Boeing suggest the plane flew steadily at 28,000-feet.

Bloody odd
Not a peep out of passengers or crew

The crew went out of contact after checking off with Malaysia air traffic control.

Passengers have only cell phones, and cell signals do not pick up at 30,000 feet. Of course, someone could have had a US Military satellite phone. But that would have been covert...those are not generally available.

Original Quill wrote:

Nems wrote:

Bloody odd
Not a peep out of passengers or crew

The crew went out of contact after checking off with Malaysia air traffic control.

Passengers have only cell phones, and cell signals do not pick up at 30,000 feet.  Of course, someone could have had a US Military satellite phone.  But that would have been covert...those are not generally available.

Mmmm Langoliers
Its the only explanation

eddie wrote:

Sassy wrote:My Dad helped set up Singapore and Malaysia's radar system, I spent some time in Control Towers watching and listening.

And I can read what has been said about what happened, and that was how they were tracked.

Your dad helped set up the radar system for Malaysia and Singapore? Serious?

Yes, one of the reasons he got his OBE.

Sassy wrote:

eddie wrote:

Your dad helped set up the radar system for Malaysia and Singapore? Serious?

Yes, one of the reasons he got his OBE.

But hasn't the radar system changed since then? Excuse me I'm terribly ignorant about stuff like this lol

Nems wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

The ACAR system is a neat little feature of the 777 that transmits into the atmosphere generally all the current data on the working of the engines.  It can be picked up by anyone who subscribes to a service--whomever is in charge, either Boeing or Rolls Royce.  And you can pay for varying amounts of information--kind of like cable TV, you pay for the stations.  

In the US, every major airline subscribes fully to ACARS, but not so Malaysia Airlines.  The US government, as well as its military, subscribe so they can monitor every aircraft in the air.  Apparently, that is where it was picked up.

Now ACARS can be switch off.  But the satellite will still ping the aircraft, inquiring if it wishes to send data---every hour or so.  It is this ping that was picked up.  Apparently, they can tell from it where the plane is.  But, it is untested technology, never used before.  I have my doubts as to its validity.

Right and is this the technology that has lead some to think it crashed into the ocean?

Well, the British AAIB were in the process of testing what other information can be derived from the ACAR system signal. They felt they had a way to pick up whereabouts...altitude and other data is dubious. That is where people get the idea that the plane went south into the Indian Ocean.

I'm still in limbo about this. As far as I'm concerned, the aircraft disappeared at the mouth of the Bay of Bengal.

Original Quill wrote:

Nems wrote:

Right and is this the technology that has lead some to think it crashed into the ocean?

Well, the British AAIB were in the process of testing what other information can be derived from the ACAR system signal.  They felt they had a way to pick up whereabouts...altitude and other data is dubious.  That is where people get the idea that the plane went south into the Indian Ocean.

I'm still in limbo about this.  As far as I'm concerned, the aircraft disappeared at the mouth of the Bay of Bengal.

I dont know what to think any more.

Malaysian military radar goes only out to 200-miles.  There has been no radar contact since then, Nems.

Only the ACAR system tells us something...but we don't really know what, or how much.  Beyond that, the plane could have gone north, or south, or due west all the way to Yemen.  It's a mystery.

eddie wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Yes, one of the reasons he got his OBE.

But hasn't the radar system changed since then? Excuse me I'm terribly ignorant about stuff like this lol

At the time the main civilian airport in Singapore was Paya Lebar and they had a basic system but relied on the RAF. Dad set up the most up to date at the time, and like every country it has been updated to the best international systems as countries have to do now with the amount of air traffic. Off course the equipment has changed, but country take over points etc would probably be the same. As Irn said, and he really is the one that knows because of his job, they have exactly the same system as America and Europe, made by the same people.

Sassy wrote:

eddie wrote:

But hasn't the radar system changed since then? Excuse me I'm terribly ignorant about stuff like this lol

At the time the main civilian airport in Singapore was Paya Lebar and they had a basic system but relied on the RAF.   Dad set up the most up to date at the time, and like every country it has been updated to the best international systems as countries have to do now with the amount of air traffic.   Off course the equipment has changed, but country take over points etc would probably be the same.     As Irn said, and he really is the one that knows because of his job, they have exactly the same system as America and Europe, made by the same people.

What does Irn do then?

That's not for me to say Eds, and he might have to kill you if he told you lol

Original Quill wrote:Malaysian military radar goes only out to 200-miles.  There has been no radar contact since then, Nems.

Only the ACAR system tells us something...but we don't really know what, or how much.  Beyond that, the plane could have gone north, or south, or due west all the way to Yemen.  It's a mystery.

Its that all right

 

Sassy wrote:That's not for me to say Eds, and he might have to kill you if he told you lol

  

eddie wrote: 

Sassy wrote:That's not for me to say Eds, and he might have to kill you if he told you lol

  

I couldn't kill you even if I wanted to eddie. And why would I when you have the voice of an angel and a heart to match.

It just so happens that it's a subject that is of interest to me in what I do.

  

Poor Eds, didn't mean to scare her lol

Nems wrote:

Sassy wrote:When you have listened to the crews telling of the difficulties they have in getting to the debris, even when a plane has it on video and has dropped a marker, then Quill posts become wonderful - fantastic comedy value.

239 families in torment and having a pop at Quill is still paramount.
Comedy value? Shameful

If you cared to look back over this thread you would see that there are a few better candidates for that - Quill and Bee being two of them - who have done more than there fair share of having a pop at someone. Indeed you have just done the same.

As expected

Original Quill wrote:

Nems wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

No, the people who designed the 777 at Boeing say the aircraft could never have climbed to the altitude they claim.  Keep in mind, they are reading little, tiny pings from a non-transponding system.  It's brand new technology and has never been tested.  They hardly know if it gives accurate direction, and changes in altitude are just anomalies in contact points.

The engineers at Boeing suggest the plane flew steadily at 28,000-feet.

Bloody odd
Not a peep out of passengers or crew

The crew went out of contact after checking off with Malaysia air traffic control.

Passengers have only cell phones, and cell signals do not pick up at 30,000 feet.  Of course, someone could have had a US Military satellite phone.  But that would have been covert...those are not generally available.

The US military aren't the only one's to have satellite phones. Indeed most modern airlines have them available in Business class to use but you have to pay. I know that because I have used them - company paid of course.

Original Quill wrote:

Sassy wrote:You shut up.   I did a thread for you to try and be civil, put you quite deliberately were nasty on it.   So don't expect me to cut you any quarter.   Blimely, you are now known as one of the Diversion Molls on Quill's pay cheque, it's rather funny and quite transparent.

Will you get the fook out of the way and let people who are interested in the subject of the thread talk, sassy.  Go down to your shitfest in miscellany and post something there.

Sassy wrote:And Quill as normal is talking bollocks, they were tracked, by the pings by satellites.

Apparently, Nems, there is a new technology which allows the authorities to follow a ACARS contact, and that went off every hour or so.  But it is completely new, and untested procedure.  It has never received validation, and people are grasping at anything by now.

The data modelling was developed by Inmarsat who passed it to the UK AAIB for comment, further testing and validation. They went through several test scenarios and passed it to the US who also ran several tests as well as calling in experts in engineering and science. It was peer reviewed at every level possible and found to be data that could be relied upon to forecast the probable flight path of the aircraft and was only after all that took place that it was decided to publish their findings..

Time will tell if they're right

Guys, Ladies...

Please be nice had a lovely day...

Am asking a question because I honestly do not know the answer........

Late last night / early this Am on US news TV they were discussing the life of the black box...............  OK we have all been told it only has a certain battery life and then finding becomes very much much difficult.  Understand..

They were discussing something as experts that I found strange....... Maybe to set a scene - remove  from scent who knows hence my question.....

The black box is designed to  send out a signal from either salt or fresh water.....  I thought maybe incorrectly it sent a signal from wherever

Perhaps Irn could help. I thought the black box sent out a signal wherever it was.

The boxes send out signals from wherever they are--be it on land or in water, fresh or salt. It sounds like a metronome clicking a steady signal.

Battery life is from 30 to 45 days. It varies on conditions.

Thanks guys that was my thoughts so why did US TV go to such lengths to discuss salt and fresh water and omit land..............  strange but nore well we know darn well it isn't there but it can only survive for so many days.....  It will now take us three days to get to where we need to and then may have seven days left of strong but gradually weaker signals......

I am still unable to fathom the amount of so called expertise called in too late after the event for the crashed if it did plane.  The cost to me from all around the globe with the Pentagon already public last week as to the cost and that was then before the yellow submarines..............  Ringo, John, Paul and George went across to be towed and submersed.

The cost of a find if  even false but has to proven it is fake  must be less than the cost of no find and the insurance risks and risks per say across the globe for the anticipation of a strike by the captors of the plane.

Well, the experts are hired by the media.  And that expense is a function of how popular the story is.

The Pentagon has no role, except inasmuch as the Malaysians may need some service or other, and the Pentagon has the capacity.  Other than the US Navy, I don't think the US Pentagon is even involved.

The Malaysians have called on the FBI to decipher the hard drives on the Captain's computers, and the National Transportation Safety Board and the FAA have been consulted.  But this has been a Malaysian operation until recently...repeat, until recently, and then the Australians have taken over.  

May I say, thank god.  The Aussies are dependable and capable.

A daft question maybe, but can the pilot switch off the black box?

harvesmom wrote:A daft question maybe, but can the pilot switch off the black box?

No, it can't be switched off by the pilot. It's the only means other than visual in trying to trace any wreckage although it has been known for the acoustic pinger to become detached from the box and be found some distance away. Hopefully, if it is in the ocean that hasn't happened.