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Scientist criticizes UK's long-lockdown approach to Covid pandemic: 'In short, we panicked'

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Scientist criticizes UK's long-lockdown approach to Covid pandemic: 'In short, we panicked' - Page 2 Empty Scientist criticizes UK's long-lockdown approach to Covid pandemic: 'In short, we panicked'

Post by Ben Reilly Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:35 pm

First topic message reminder :

There was a distinctive moment, at the start of the Covid-19 pandemic, that neatly encapsulated the mistakes and confusion of Britain’s early efforts to tackle the disease, says Mark Woolhouse. At a No 10 briefing in March 2020, cabinet minister Michael Gove warned the virus did not discriminate. “Everyone is at risk,” he announced.

And nothing could be further from the truth, argues Professor Woolhouse, an expert on infectious diseases at Edinburgh University. “I am afraid Gove’s statement was simply not true,” he says. “In fact, this is a very discriminatory virus. Some people are much more at risk from it than others. People over 75 are an astonishing 10,000 times more at risk than those who are under 15.”

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And it was this failure to understand the wide variations in individual responses to Covid-19 that led to Britain’s flawed responses to the disease’s appearance, he argues – errors that included the imposition of a long-lasting, national lockdown. This is a strategy that Woolhouse – one of the country’s leading epidemiologists – describes as morally wrong and highly damaging in his forthcoming book, The Year the World Went Mad: A Scientific Memoir.

“We did serious harm to our children and young adults who were robbed of their education, jobs and normal existence, as well as suffering damage to their future prospects, while they were left to inherit a record-breaking mountain of public debt,” he argues. “All this to protect the NHS from a disease that is a far, far greater threat to the elderly, frail and infirm than to the young and healthy.

“We were mesmerised by the once-in-a-century scale of the emergency and succeeded only in making a crisis even worse. In short, we panicked. This was an epidemic crying out for a precision public health approach and it got the opposite.

Rather than imposing blanket lockdowns across the nation, the government should have adopted measures designed to make contacts safe, Woolhouse maintains. “You can see from the UK data that people were reducing their contacts with each other as cases rose and before lockdown was imposed. That, coupled with Covid-safe measures, such as masks and testing, would have been sufficient to control spread.”

Largely voluntary behaviour change worked in Sweden and it should have been allowed to progress in the UK, argues Woolhouse. Instead, we plumped for an enforced national lockdown, in part because, for the first time in history, we could. Enough business is now done online to allow large parts of society to function fairly well – through video conferences and online shopping. “But it was a lazy solution to a novel coronavirus epidemic, as well as a hugely damaging one,” he adds.

However, Woolhouse is at pains to reject the ideas of those who advocated the complete opening up of society, including academics who backed the Barrington Declaration which proposed the Covid-19 virus be allowed to circulate until enough people had been infected to achieve herd immunity.

“This would have led to an epidemic far larger than the one we eventually experienced in 2020,” says Woolhouse. “It also lacked a convincing plan for adequately protecting the more vulnerable members of society, the elderly and those who are immuno-compromised.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/02/britain-got-it-wrong-on-covid-long-lockdown-did-more-harm-than-good-says-scientist

I think there are a few questions he hasn't addressed in the article, but perhaps he does in his book.
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Scientist criticizes UK's long-lockdown approach to Covid pandemic: 'In short, we panicked' - Page 2 Empty Re: Scientist criticizes UK's long-lockdown approach to Covid pandemic: 'In short, we panicked'

Post by Original Quill Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:33 am

Meh...only two cases?  You can't generalize from specifics.

Probably a case of post hoc, ergo propter hoc.  Once again, the adverse reaction is not shown to be "causally related" to the vaccine.

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Scientist criticizes UK's long-lockdown approach to Covid pandemic: 'In short, we panicked' - Page 2 Empty Re: Scientist criticizes UK's long-lockdown approach to Covid pandemic: 'In short, we panicked'

Post by Tommy Monk Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:47 am





No... I only showed 2 just to prove that the vaccines have killed people.


There are many many more!


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Scientist criticizes UK's long-lockdown approach to Covid pandemic: 'In short, we panicked' - Page 2 Empty Re: Scientist criticizes UK's long-lockdown approach to Covid pandemic: 'In short, we panicked'

Post by Original Quill Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:11 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:There are many many more!

Well, we need to see them.  A single incident doesn't prove a generalization.  It's a quantitative issue, not an anecdotal one.

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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:36 am




Yes!

I agree.

We need to see the truth about the relatively high number of serious adverse reactions (including deaths) from these covid vaccines, compared to many other vaccines...

But unfortunately... The powers that be, are too enthusiastic in classing non covid deaths as covid deaths, while also bending over backwards to deny any ailment/death has anything to do with any adverse reaction to any covid vaccine.

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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:47 am





Also...





https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/new-zealand-links-26-year-old-mans-death-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-2021-12-20/


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/lisa-shaw-covid-vaccine-death-b1909089.html




These two deaths are said to be directly caused by covid vaccines!!!


Not without cause link as you suggested earlier quill...


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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:52 am




https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-59434281


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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:55 am




https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-9-2021-004862_EN.html



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Scientist criticizes UK's long-lockdown approach to Covid pandemic: 'In short, we panicked' - Page 2 Empty Re: Scientist criticizes UK's long-lockdown approach to Covid pandemic: 'In short, we panicked'

Post by Original Quill Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:57 pm

Unfortunately, you go right back to anecdotal evidence.  The problem with anecdotal evidence is, it is subject to the anecdotal fallacy: The anecdotal fallacy is committed when a recent memory, a striking anecdote, or a news story of an unusual event leads one to overestimate the probability of that type of event, especially when one has access to better evidence.

Here, you make much ado about the vaccine preceding a case or two of Myocarditis, without articulating how the vaccine might have caused the disease.  Thus, you have no theory.  Without this causal relationship, what you are espousing is a religion – a hope, speculation or a guess – anything but a scientific conclusion.

Then there is the lack of numbers to prove your case.  When you generalize – as in: vaccines cause myocarditis – it is a quantitative statement.  You must show that: vaccines are numerically associated with myocarditis, with strong, if not universal probability.  You haven’t done this.  You have no repetition, thus no association.

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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:38 pm



The coroner established the cause to be the vaccines.


It is well established that these vaccines can cause myocarditis as well as blood clots and also deaths.


You seem to be in denial about this.


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Post by Original Quill Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:09 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The coroner established the cause to be the vaccines.

If the coroner did so responsibly, s/he would have provided a causal relationship.  How did the vaccines ‘cause’ the problem?  You haven't provided the answer to that question.

Tommy Monk wrote:It is well established that these vaccines can cause myocarditis as well as blood clots and also deaths.

"Well established" means there are numbers.  Let us see the numbers…at least in summary form.  Allow us to see the proof so we might decide for ourselves.

Tommy Monk wrote:You seem to be in denial about this.

That's irrelevant.  It's not about me, personally.  But there is something at stake for all of us, as a community.  A pandemic is afoot.  The vaccine offers a protection, but we must be assured that there are no adverse collateral consequences to the vaccine.

You are arguing one of those collateral consequences.  So far, on theoretical grounds, and on quantitative grounds, the challenge appears to fail.  You have been given every opportunity to prove your case, and you have even been shown the way (generally) to prove your case, yet your argument continues to fall short.

Obviously, we all share your concern.  But...you have failed to back your concern with any proof.

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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:42 pm




Try doing a bit of research...


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Post by Original Quill Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:00 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Try doing a bit of research...

I have.  My research is in the logic of methodology...which tells me that you haven't met the requirements of your conclusions.  You have made quantitative assertions, but only provided anecdotal evidence.  Wink

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Post by Tommy Monk Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:50 am




Are you saying that none of these covid vaccines have caused serious adverse reactions, including myocarditis/blood clots/death...???


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Post by Original Quill Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:07 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Are you saying that none of these covid vaccines have caused serious adverse reactions, including myocarditis/blood clots/death...???

Not at all. Anything can happen in the individual case. That's why we have one-on-one with physicians...all health care should be individual and direct.

But, risk of these complications is very low. Not only are the vaccines safe generally for people with a history of heart disease, they are essential for people with any heart complications. People with heart disease are at increased risk of severe complications from COVID-19. For this very reason the American Heart Association has issued a statement that “…strongly encourages everyone to get vaccinated with any approved COVID-19 vaccine as it is available.” https://www.vcuhealth.org/news/covid-19/covid-19-vaccine-and-heart-patients-is-it-safe

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Post by Tommy Monk Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:13 pm





Overwhelming vast majority of people are not at risk from covid...


But are being told to have a vaccine against it, which could cause serious adverse reactions including blood clots, myocarditis and even death!


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Post by Original Quill Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:36 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Overwhelming vast majority of people are not at risk from covid...

But are being told to have a vaccine against it, which could cause serious adverse reactions including blood clots, myocarditis and even death!

Unfortunately, Covid-19 has caused/contributed to 864,000 deaths in the US, and 153,000 deaths in the UK. The death toll worldwide is 5,605,410 deaths.

That’s over 5.6-million people who would not have died were it not for Covid. Only Germans, Republicans and Tories are comfortable living with those numbers. Wink

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Post by Tommy Monk Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:33 pm




Here, under 60's with no health conditions, only a few hundred have died in the 2 years that this virus has been going around.


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Post by eddie Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:29 pm

gelico wrote:
Vintage wrote:Haven't had a chance to look for it.
Are you stating then that more people have died from complications of the vaccine than complications from actually having Covid?


and in the time it took you to type that you could have had a quick look

just saying


Cool

Yes, indeed.
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