Does private healthcare contribute the Covid-19 pandemic?

Like the anti-vaxers, the US lack of a comprehensive healthcare aids in spreading disease.  Whereas anti-vaxers have religious, and some secular reasons for not seeking vaccines, some 30-million Americans have economic reasons for not seeking medical care: they can't afford it. A nation with a national healthcare system doesn't have this problem.

By not seeking detection and treatment, that's 30-million disease spreaders walking among us.  What if a child of an uncovered poor family infects the child of a covered wealthy family?  Isn't it a small price to pay for their corporate tax break?

Original Quill wrote:Like the anti-vaxers, the US lack of a comprehensive healthcare aids in spreading disease.  Whereas anti-vaxers have religious, and some secular reasons for not seeking vaccines, some 30-million Americans have economic reasons for not seeking medical care.

By not seeking detection and treatment, that's 30-million disease spreaders walking among us.  What if a child of an uncovered poor family infects the child of a covered wealthy family?  Isn't it a small price to pay for their corporate tax break?

Secular reasons?

What secular reason?

That literally makes zero sense

You also then invoke quite an extremist hateful view. One that has plagued far leftism

A hateful stance of people of wealth

You claim its a small price to pay. That a child becomes infected and that this is fine with you and has just cause. Based on a class system?
That an innocent wealthy child requires being infected. In order to balance out some arbitrarily toilet political system you adhere to?

Seriously?

I don't think Quill is suggesting anyone should infect anyone else.

He is stating, rightly in my opinion, that having no universal health coverage could lead to many more infections.

The point is, is allowing it to spread easily due to pure economic/political selfishness (meaning, continuing to resist universal coverage), worth it to the elitists who maintain or support the current US health system?

Eilzel wrote:I don't think Quill is suggesting anyone should infect anyone else.

He is stating, rightly in my opinion, that having no universal health coverage could lead to many more infections.

The point is, is allowing it to spread easily due to pure economic/political selfishness (meaning, continuing to resist universal coverage), worth it to the elitists who maintain or support the current US health system?

Well I would have no doubt you would fail to see that based on your aligning politics

As why bring up wealth of a child. When the issue is on politics?

You really have to go down as the worst illiberal and nonsecular gay person I have ever met Eilzel

Infections would ha[pen no matter what ever coverage. Are you that stupid?

No amount of money will save people here

Only their immune system will

Hence the pair of you are complete an utter Scientology students

I truly despair at now you Eilzel with that dumnbfuckwittery

The US government is refusing point blank to support testing for the virus....

Hence the online campaigns this week, demanding that the US guvm'nt starts paying for the Covid19 testing..

Instead, we see Donnie Dumpster and his greed-fuelled billionaire big 'Pharma' backers dismissing any actual threats,  claiming it's no worse than a cold..

Americans have to fucking well personally pay for the virus testing !  Whereas other countries --  including those poor countries and "Marxist" countries that we see Dodge shitting on and dismissing regularly around here --  are putting in place testing procedures and controls to at least try and combat the very threat of any pandemic..

And Donnie and the Evangelical fuckers' response ?  Here's our "thoughts and prayers" --  and give us more money for a bigger wall !!!

'Wolfie wrote:

The US government is refusing point blank to support testing for the virus....

Hence the online campaigns this week, demanding that the US guvm'nt starts paying for the Covid19 testing..

Instead, we see Donnie Dumpster and his greed-fuelled billionaire big 'Pharma' backers dismissing any actual threats,  claiming it's no worse than a cold..

Americans have to fucking well personally pay for the virus testing !  Whereas other countries --  including those poor countries and "Marxist" countries that we see Dodge shitting on and dismissing regularly around here --  are putting in place testing procedures and controls to at least try and combat the very threat of any pandemic..

And Donnie and the Evangelical fuckers' response ?  Here's our "thoughts and prayers" --  and give us more money for a bigger wall !!!

1. Lie number one

When the left lie as wolf does here. This is why I have no faith in the left

Eilzel wrote:I don't think Quill is suggesting anyone should infect anyone else.

He is stating, rightly in my opinion, that having no universal health coverage could lead to many more infections.

The point is, is allowing it to spread easily due to pure economic/political selfishness (meaning, continuing to resist universal coverage), worth it to the elitists who maintain or support the current US health system?

Exactly. Very well said, Les. I don't wish ill of anyone. But I would like to put people in a place where they realize, and feel the consequences of their actions. We tend to think of healthcare as an individual issue, and those who can't afford it are tossed into the abyss of nothingness.

But in the case of an highly communicable disease like Covid-19, it becomes a community issue. Most modern nations have a national healthcare system, but here the US is in a uniquely disadvantageous position.

Original Quill wrote:

Eilzel wrote:I don't think Quill is suggesting anyone should infect anyone else.

He is stating, rightly in my opinion, that having no universal health coverage could lead to many more infections.

The point is, is allowing it to spread easily due to pure economic/political selfishness (meaning, continuing to resist universal coverage), worth it to the elitists who maintain or support the current US health system?

Exactly.  Very well said, Les.  I don't wish ill of anyone.  But I would like to put people in a place where they realize, and feel the consequences of their actions.  We tend to think of healthcare as an individual issue, and those who can't afford it are tossed into the abyss of nothingness.

But in the case of an highly communicable disease like Covid-19, it becomes a community issue.  Most modern nations have a national healthcare system, but here the US is in a uniquely disadvantageous position.

Bullshit

You said and even worse eilzel is defending this

Original Quill wrote:  What if a child of an uncovered poor family infects the child of a covered wealthy family?  Isn't it a small price to pay for their corporate tax break?

What is the small price to pay here quill??

Thorin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Exactly.  Very well said, Les.  I don't wish ill of anyone.  But I would like to put people in a place where they realize, and feel the consequences of their actions.  We tend to think of healthcare as an individual issue, and those who can't afford it are tossed into the abyss of nothingness.

But in the case of an highly communicable disease like Covid-19, it becomes a community issue.  Most modern nations have a national healthcare system, but here the US is in a uniquely disadvantageous position.

Bullshit

You said and even worse eilzel is defending this

Original Quill wrote:  What if a child of an uncovered poor family infects the child of a covered wealthy family?  Isn't it a small price to pay for their corporate tax break?

What is the small price to pay here quill??

Juxtaposing those conditions is precisely putting "people in a place where they realize, and feel the consequences of their actions." I operate on the assumption that people don't feel the pain of others. Often, they hear an argument, but don't feel it. I don't believe that they are malevolent, just a bit insensitive. Thus to make them 'feel' the situation of the other is an importand learning experience.

And Ben wanted evidence in regards to quill pricing up people

Go figure

What does "pricing up people" mean? Are you talking about your attempts to censor people who have a good point to make? Is that "pricing up people"?

When you are lost in a debate, you do tend to resort to the rules to bail you out. You run whining to the mods whenever you are stuck for an answer. Is that what you mean by referring to Ben?

Original Quill wrote:What does "pricing up people" mean?  Are you talking about your attempts to censor people who have a good point to make?  Is that "pricing up people"?

When you are lost in a debate, you do tend to resort to the rules to bail you out.  You run whining to the mods whenever you are stuck for an answer.  Is that what you mean by referring to Ben?

Indeed what does it mean?

Considering you use money here in regards to human beings?

I have not lost a debate Quill

You are now using excuses Quill

You are talking nonsense. Have you been drinking again?

It's is that time in your part of the world!

Original Quill wrote:You are talking nonsense.  Have you been drinking again?

It's is that time in your part of the world!

I see quill has conceded the debate here

Thorin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Eilzel wrote:I don't think Quill is suggesting anyone should infect anyone else.

He is stating, rightly in my opinion, that having no universal health coverage could lead to many more infections.

The point is, is allowing it to spread easily due to pure economic/political selfishness (meaning, continuing to resist universal coverage), worth it to the elitists who maintain or support the current US health system?

Exactly.  Very well said, Les.  I don't wish ill of anyone.  But I would like to put people in a place where they realize, and feel the consequences of their actions.  We tend to think of healthcare as an individual issue, and those who can't afford it are tossed into the abyss of nothingness.

But in the case of an highly communicable disease like Covid-19, it becomes a community issue.  Most modern nations have a national healthcare system, but here the US is in a uniquely disadvantageous position.

Bullshit

You said and even worse eilzel is defending this

Original Quill wrote:  What if a child of an uncovered poor family infects the child of a covered wealthy family?  Isn't it a small price to pay for their corporate tax break?

What is the small price to pay here quill??

'If' and 'isn't it?' are hypotheticals, didge, but you are never one for subtleties are you.

Basically, from the pov of rich conservatives, even with the added risk of more infections, which could affect their own, they still refuse to support universal health care. In doing so they stop low income people getting checked for the virus, since it would be expensive, and thus risk more infections. So from that pov, the pov of the rich conservative, they'd rather keep the risk than change the system.

Thorin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:You are talking nonsense.  Have you been drinking again?

It's is that time in your part of the world!

I see quill has conceded the debate here

What debate?  I won the World History of Art discussion, and you agreed with me. All debates are now closed.

With no reason, you then tossed a stinger my way, indicating that you lost touch with the discussion.

To which I tossed out with a bit of mirth, it's winky-poo time over there in GMT.  

Have a martini...  

Won the world history of art discussion, by socialising it?

Thorin wrote:Won the world history of art discussion, by socialising it?

You are helplessly confused. Here we are talking about the Covid-19 disease, and how the lack of a comprehensive healthcare increases the chances of community spread.

But, that's all right...enjoy the buzz.

So didge, to get to the actual topic:

Do you think socialising healthcare in America would help more people get checked for the virus?

Fine use me as an example. I live and work in a area that has an over abundance of people who do not have access to healthcare, of if they do have employer provided healthcare, it’s so outrageously priced that they can’t afford to go see the doctor let alone buy medicine.

Consequently I have been sick, very sick, including my trip to England , because every time I start to get better, another person comes into the library sick or is at work sick (the grocery store for instance) because they cannot afford to miss a day’s work, have minimal sick leave (Arizona passed a law last year that says you get 1 hour of sick leave for every 30 worked) or are pressured by their employers to not miss work. Arizona is an at will state so employers pretty much can fire your ass anytime they want. The county health departments have no money to offer free clinics.

So yes, even if testing became available to the wider public here, it will only be for a small number of people. We are lucky that we can afford to see a doctor. But even with insurance I had to pay out of pocket to buy a nebulizer, even though it’s now a medical requirement because the constant infections have flared up my asthma, because the insurance doesn’t cover medical equipment.

That is why everyone in the uk should be on their knees thanking the NHS every single day. You will never know the fear of dying or losing your house or developing a chronic acute sickness for lack of access to healthcare and medicine.

And you want to to know something? I have been stockpiling food the last 2 weeks I’ve gone shopping. Not gone overboard but I plan to stay away from people as much as possible until I can get better. It won’t help at work, unless I wear a full hazmat suit. Librarians can’t  do remote work.

Thorin wrote:

'Wolfie wrote:

The US government is refusing point blank to support testing for the virus....

Hence the online campaigns this week, demanding that the US guvm'nt starts paying for the Covid19 testing..

Instead, we see Donnie Dumpster and his greed-fuelled billionaire big 'Pharma' backers dismissing any actual threats,  claiming it's no worse than a cold..

Americans have to fucking well personally pay for the virus testing !  Whereas other countries --  including those poor countries and "Marxist" countries that we see Dodge shitting on and dismissing regularly around here --  are putting in place testing procedures and controls to at least try and combat the very threat of any pandemic..

And Donnie and the Evangelical fuckers' response ?  Here's our "thoughts and prayers" --  and give us more money for a bigger wall !!!

1. Lie number one

When the left lie as wolf does here. This is why I have no faith in the left

Where's the "lie",  dipstick  ???

All I'm doing is laying out the facts,  pure and simple..

IF I'm "lying", then tell us all where the fucking lie is...

Are you going to tell us that the US guvm'nt has started paying for these hsalth checks --  when only yesterday the 'powers that be' in the USA, both the administration, and their masters in the health system, were leaving it up to private citizens to pay for theor own virus testing..

Along with those American corporatists, you're the one who's actually politicising this debate.  Not me..

'Wolfie wrote:

Thorin wrote:

1. Lie number one

When the left lie as wolf does here. This is why I have no faith in the left

Where's the "lie",  dipstick  ???

All I'm doing is laying out the facts,  pure and simple..

IF I'm "lying", then tell us all where the fucking lie is...

Are you going to tell us that the US guvm'nt has started paying for these hsalth checks --  when only yesterday the 'powers that be' in the USA, both the administration, and their masters in the health system, were leaving it up to private citizens to pay for theor own virus testing..

Along with those American corporatists, you're the one who's actually politicising this debate.  Not me..

Show me the facts then?

You politicised this just as many other weasel left wing wankers do

This is nothing to do with politics, yet you and other retards would make people believe so

Eilzel wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Bullshit

You said and even worse eilzel is defending this




What is the small price to pay here quill??

'If' and 'isn't it?' are hypotheticals, didge, but you are never one for subtleties are you.

Basically, from the pov of rich conservatives, even with the added risk of more infections, which could affect their own, they still refuse to support universal health care. In doing so they stop low income people getting checked for the virus, since it would be expensive, and thus risk more infections. So from that pov, the pov of the rich conservative, they'd rather keep the risk than change the system.

Yet more left wing claptrap

Making an unsubstantiated claim to now rich conservatives

They are not stopping anyone getting checked

Yet again a pathetic lie that comes from the weasel left

Eilzel wrote:So didge, to get to the actual topic:

Do you think socialising healthcare in America would help more people get checked for the virus?

No, it would not help more people

Is it helping people in countries where it is socialised?

You see this is what fucks me off about some people on the left

They care more about politically scoring points on this, than actually combating the problem. They want people to view them as superior intellectually and as good people by their views. When in reality all they care about is how others regard them

That is having an inferiority complex

So when I see threads like this, being the fact this virus started in a nation fundamentally left wing and spread out of control. Show's how ridiculous that argument actually is

Nobody is blaming the left for the spread of this virus

To politically weaponize this, comes from the biggest ignorance by some people. Who care more about politically scoring points, than the actual welfare of people

Cass wrote:Fine use me as an example. I live and work in a area that has an over abundance of people who do not have access to healthcare, of if they do have employer provided healthcare, it’s so outrageously priced that they can’t afford to go see the doctor let alone buy medicine.

Consequently I have been sick, very sick, including my trip to England , because every time I start to get better, another person comes into the library sick or is at work sick (the grocery store for instance) because they cannot afford to miss a day’s work, have minimal sick leave (Arizona passed a law last year that says you get 1 hour of sick leave for every 30 worked) or are pressured by their employers to not miss work. Arizona is an at will state so employers pretty much can fire your ass anytime they want. The county health departments have no money to offer free clinics.

So yes, even if testing became available to the wider public here, it will only be for a small number of people. We are lucky that we can afford to see a doctor. But even with insurance I had to pay out of pocket to buy a nebulizer, even though it’s now a medical requirement because the constant infections have flared up my asthma, because the insurance doesn’t cover medical equipment.

That is why everyone in the uk should be on their knees thanking the NHS every single day. You will never know the fear of dying or losing your house or developing a chronic acute sickness for lack of access to healthcare and medicine.

And you want to to know something? I have been stockpiling food the last 2 weeks I’ve gone shopping. Not gone overboard but I plan to stay away from people as much as possible until I can get better. It won’t help at work, unless I wear a full hazmat suit. Librarians can’t  do remote work.

Thanking the NHS and be on our knees?

Why?

How will that help anyone when it has already gone past the tipping point?

Where many people will have to overcome this on their own. Being as people are being advised to self isolate

You think that people should be thankful of the NHS for that?

There is very little that can be done when people contract this virus.

Where money can help, is helping fund a vaccine

Good for you to being sensible here with stockpiling food.

No medical enterprise will be able to cope with the numbers here

Its why many are being advised to self isolate and not go to the hospitals, doctors surgeries etc

No amount of money in the world can solve this present problem.

What will, is people educating themselves in regards to prevention

Any medical system is only as good as a system, when it is able to cope numerically

Thorin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:So didge, to get to the actual topic:

Do you think socialising healthcare in America would help more people get checked for the virus?

No, it would not help more people

Is it helping people in countries where it is socialised?

If someone in the UK wants to get a check up, they can, without worrying about costs.

If someone is the US, uninsured (or even insured, in some cases, as Cass pointed out), they might just stay home, coughing and spluttering and infecting all and sundry cause they can't find out any better or get treatment. That is obviously going to causes more problems.

Eilzel wrote:

Thorin wrote:

No, it would not help more people

Is it helping people in countries where it is socialised?

If someone in the UK wants to get a check up, they can, without worrying about costs.

If someone is the US, uninsured (or even insured, in some cases, as Cass pointed out), they might just stay home, coughing and spluttering and infecting all and sundry cause they can't find out any better or get treatment. That is obviously going to causes more problems.

How does anyone get to have a check up in regards to this virus?

Great dodge that by you Eilzel too your own previous point

So go on, please explain how that will happen in the UK?

Have you actually bothered to read up on this?

Clearly not, as what is happening in the Uk at the moment and being advised to people?

Thorin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Thorin wrote:

No, it would not help more people

Is it helping people in countries where it is socialised?

If someone in the UK wants to get a check up, they can, without worrying about costs.

If someone is the US, uninsured (or even insured, in some cases, as Cass pointed out), they might just stay home, coughing and spluttering and infecting all and sundry cause they can't find out any better or get treatment. That is obviously going to causes more problems.

How does anyone get to have a check up in regards to this virus?

Great dodge that by you Eilzel too your own previous point

So go on, please explain how that will happen in the UK?

Have you actually bothered to read up on this?

Clearly not, as what is happening in the Uk at the moment and being advised to people?

Yes, they are advising people to self-quarantine, same as everywhere else. But the fact is that for some they will need to get a proper check and treatment if need be. In America some cannot afford to take this chance.

Would you prefer the UK to change to paying at the point of use?

Eilzel wrote:

Thorin wrote:

How does anyone get to have a check up in regards to this virus?

Great dodge that by you Eilzel too your own previous point

So go on, please explain how that will happen in the UK?

Have you actually bothered to read up on this?

Clearly not, as what is happening in the Uk at the moment and being advised to people?

Yes, they are advising people to self-quarantine, same as everywhere else. But the fact is that for some they will need to get a proper check and treatment if need be. In America some cannot afford to take this chance.

Would you prefer the UK to change to paying at the point of use?

The fact is, you have not the first clue what you are talking about

That was very easy to spot from the start

If anything the US is better placed and funded to create a vaccine before the UK does

Thorin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Thorin wrote:

How does anyone get to have a check up in regards to this virus?

Great dodge that by you Eilzel too your own previous point

So go on, please explain how that will happen in the UK?

Have you actually bothered to read up on this?

Clearly not, as what is happening in the Uk at the moment and being advised to people?

Yes, they are advising people to self-quarantine, same as everywhere else. But the fact is that for some they will need to get a proper check and treatment if need be. In America some cannot afford to take this chance.

Would you prefer the UK to change to paying at the point of use?

The fact is, you have not the first clue what you are talking about

That was very easy to spot from the start

If anything the US is better placed and funded to create a vaccine before the UK does

That's not answering the question. I doubt I'll get an answer though, since you came into this thread only to tell Quill he was saying something he wasn't.
I won't push for an answer. See you later.

Eilzel wrote:

Thorin wrote:

The fact is, you have not the first clue what you are talking about

That was very easy to spot from the start

If anything the US is better placed and funded to create a vaccine before the UK does

That's not answering the question. I doubt I'll get an answer though, since you came into this thread only to tell Quill he was saying something he wasn't.
I won't push for an answer. See you later.

Answer something I have already answered countless times?

That I think the NHS is unworkable and to replace it with a system that is workable and free on the point of entry?

So sod off eh

You know for a fact I have answered this many times

This is simple you not admitting to the reality of how little understanding you have of the reality for the Uk combating this virus

Thorin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Thorin wrote:

The fact is, you have not the first clue what you are talking about

That was very easy to spot from the start

If anything the US is better placed and funded to create a vaccine before the UK does

That's not answering the question. I doubt I'll get an answer though, since you came into this thread only to tell Quill he was saying something he wasn't.
I won't push for an answer. See you later.

Answer something I have already answered countless times?

That I think the NHS is unworkable and to replace it with a system that is workable and free on the point of entry?

So sod off eh

You know for a fact I have answered this many times

This is simple you not admitting to the reality of how little understanding you have of the reality for the Uk combating this virus

So you think I don't watch and read the same news you do?

You want a system but seem to have no idea what that system would be.

Eilzel wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Answer something I have already answered countless times?

That I think the NHS is unworkable and to replace it with a system that is workable and free on the point of entry?

So sod off eh

You know for a fact I have answered this many times

This is simple you not admitting to the reality of how little understanding you have of the reality for the Uk combating this virus

So you think I don't watch and read the same news you do?

You want a system but seem to have no idea what that system would be.

If you watch and read the news, I would then have to question your level of intellect in grasping that information

I have said many times what that system should be

You know this of course

How many times have I stated to replace the NHS with a better system like they have in Canada, Germany etc

Thorin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Answer something I have already answered countless times?

That I think the NHS is unworkable and to replace it with a system that is workable and free on the point of entry?

So sod off eh

You know for a fact I have answered this many times

This is simple you not admitting to the reality of how little understanding you have of the reality for the Uk combating this virus

So you think I don't watch and read the same news you do?

You want a system but seem to have no idea what that system would be.

If you watch and read the news, I would then  have to question your level of intellect in grasping that information

I have said many times what that system should be

You know this of course

How many times have I stated to replace the NHS with a better system like they have in Canada, Germany etc

And why do you believe their systems are better?

Eilzel wrote:

Thorin wrote:

If you watch and read the news, I would then  have to question your level of intellect in grasping that information

I have said many times what that system should be

You know this of course

How many times have I stated to replace the NHS with a better system like they have in Canada, Germany etc

And why do you believe their systems are better?

Its called research. Maybe you should try it

Laters

Thorin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Thorin wrote:

If you watch and read the news, I would then  have to question your level of intellect in grasping that information

I have said many times what that system should be

You know this of course

How many times have I stated to replace the NHS with a better system like they have in Canada, Germany etc

And why do you believe their systems are better?

Its called research. Maybe you should try it

Laters

I don't believe there is anything wrong with our system, so no need to look deeply into alternatives

Although according to wikipedia we pay less per person than most developed countries and less than Canada and Germany as a % of GDP!

Thorin wrote:How many times have I stated to replace the NHS with a better system like they have in Canada, Germany etc

Thorin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

And why do you believe their systems are better?

Its called research. Maybe you should try it

Canada has better medical research than Britain?  I don't think so.  The University of Edinburgh is the finest biological science school on earth.

One of Canada's better schools is McGill University in Montreal, and it is only 39th in the world.  Similarly rated Canadian colleges include University of Toronto, University of British Columbia, McMaster University, and University of Alberta.  None of them are of the same calibre as the University of Edinburgh.

lol, who was making a point in regards to Universities or medical research Quill?

By research I mean researching the medical system they have


Doh

Thorin wrote:

Cass wrote:Fine use me as an example. I live and work in a area that has an over abundance of people who do not have access to healthcare, of if they do have employer provided healthcare, it’s so outrageously priced that they can’t afford to go see the doctor let alone buy medicine.

Consequently I have been sick, very sick, including my trip to England , because every time I start to get better, another person comes into the library sick or is at work sick (the grocery store for instance) because they cannot afford to miss a day’s work, have minimal sick leave (Arizona passed a law last year that says you get 1 hour of sick leave for every 30 worked) or are pressured by their employers to not miss work. Arizona is an at will state so employers pretty much can fire your ass anytime they want. The county health departments have no money to offer free clinics.

So yes, even if testing became available to the wider public here, it will only be for a small number of people. We are lucky that we can afford to see a doctor. But even with insurance I had to pay out of pocket to buy a nebulizer, even though it’s now a medical requirement because the constant infections have flared up my asthma, because the insurance doesn’t cover medical equipment.

That is why everyone in the uk should be on their knees thanking the NHS every single day. You will never know the fear of dying or losing your house or developing a chronic acute sickness for lack of access to healthcare and medicine.

And you want to to know something? I have been stockpiling food the last 2 weeks I’ve gone shopping. Not gone overboard but I plan to stay away from people as much as possible until I can get better. It won’t help at work, unless I wear a full hazmat suit. Librarians can’t  do remote work.

Thanking the NHS and be on our knees?

Why?

How will that help anyone when it has already gone past the tipping point?

Where many people will have to overcome this on their own. Being as people are being advised to self isolate

You think that people should be thankful of the NHS for that?

There is very little that can be done when people contract this virus.

Where money can help, is helping fund a vaccine

Good for you to being sensible here with stockpiling food.

No medical enterprise will be able to cope with the numbers here

Its why many are being advised to self isolate and not go to the hospitals, doctors surgeries etc

No amount of money in the world can solve this present problem.

What will, is people educating themselves in regards to prevention

Any medical system is only as good as a system, when it is able to cope numerically

Because it’s a far better system than what we have. Never ever did any of my family or friends have to think twice about going to the doctor or getting medicine because of having no money.

It hadn’t gone beyond the tipping point yet but with a centralized system, it will be easier to handle as numbers rise.

Self isolation will not work here because we have so many different labor laws, both state and federal and people simply cannot afford to miss work because of previous points I made.

Of course money will help with finding a vaccine but that’s going to take too long at this point. But i’d rather trust the NHS with funding for finding a vaccine than a for profit organization that is beholden to shareholders.

Education in prevention is absolutely necessary as you say, but with social media nowadays and certain politicians saying completely irresponsible remarks doesn’t help. Also having access to or living in sanitary conditions will help but that’s not going to help a huge percentage of people on this planet, including where I live. Again though education isn’t going to hack it if people cannot stay home.

Thank you. It’s pissing down so I’m making some slow cooker chili with my stockpile. (Big hint. A good dash of good cocoa powder is my secret ingredient).

Next few points are going over same ground as I mentioned above.

Have a good day

phil wrote:By research I mean researching the medical system they have

You should say that, then. However, the core of any nation's healthcare system are it's institutions, including research laboratories, clinics, and medical schools. You can't achieve at what you don't know.

In medical advancements, the UK is second to none.

Cass wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Thanking the NHS and be on our knees?

Why?

How will that help anyone when it has already gone past the tipping point?

Where many people will have to overcome this on their own. Being as people are being advised to self isolate

You think that people should be thankful of the NHS for that?

There is very little that can be done when people contract this virus.

Where money can help, is helping fund a vaccine

Good for you to being sensible here with stockpiling food.

No medical enterprise will be able to cope with the numbers here

Its why many are being advised to self isolate and not go to the hospitals, doctors surgeries etc

No amount of money in the world can solve this present problem.

What will, is people educating themselves in regards to prevention

Any medical system is only as good as a system, when it is able to cope numerically

Because it’s a far better system than what we have. Never ever did any of my family or friends have to think twice about going to the doctor or getting medicine because of having no money.

It hadn’t gone beyond the tipping point yet but with a centralized system, it will be easier to handle as numbers rise.

Self isolation will not work here because we have so many different labor laws, both state and federal and people simply cannot afford to miss work because of previous points I made.

Of course money will help with finding a vaccine but that’s going to take too long at this point. But i’d rather trust the NHS with funding for finding a vaccine than a for profit organization that is beholden to shareholders.

Education in prevention is absolutely necessary as you say, but with social media nowadays and certain politicians saying completely irresponsible remarks doesn’t help. Also having access to or living in sanitary conditions will help but that’s not going to help a huge percentage of people on this planet, including where I live. Again though education isn’t going to hack it if people cannot stay home.

Thank you. It’s pissing down so I’m making some slow cooker chili with my stockpile. (Big hint. A good dash of good cocoa powder is my secret ingredient).

Next few points are going over same ground as I mentioned above.

Have a good day

Me Lady, do you seriously think American medical research facilities are less trust worthy than ones from the NHS? Have you not considered that this would be a gold mine for who ever develops such a vaccine?. In other words, I would place my money on the US developing this first. They have the resources and funds, that far outweigh the pitiful funds the NHS has to work off from this

The NHS is not a far better system, its why not a single country in the world has replicated this. People neglect to understand there is other systems free at the point of entry and far better run than the NHS.

It has gone beyond the tipping point. The number may seem small now, but within a view weeks, the number of those infected will be in the thousands. Where when more people are in ill health in the winter and spring, than they are in summer. It will create a massive strain on the NHS system. In other words, who will need care if they contract. It will break the system, when it already does not have enough beds for patients. Let alone the knock on effect this will have to people suffering other underlining condition's. That require medical assistance

This is what people do not understand here and why the fatality rate will increase the far greater the number of people infected. Of course many will be able to overcome this, but the reality is a large number of people. Will not be able to overcome this, being as their age or conditions will place them at a disadvantage. The sheer number of those that need extra help and care going through this. |Will clog u-p the NHS system. Which will have a disastrous knock on effect. To patients waiting treatment for other conditions

Well you made me hungry again lol, save me some chilli

Have a wonderful day too

x

No.

Any more stupid questions?

What could make it spread more in the US would be our stronger inclination towards individual rights than a collective mindset centered around some imaginary social contract that we never agreed to.

Were far less inclined to obey some sort of lockdown, and I dont even know how legal it would be.

Maddog wrote:What could make it spread more in the US would be our stronger inclination towards individual rights than a collective mindset centered around some imaginary social contract that we never agreed to.

Were far less inclined to obey some sort of lockdown, and I dont even know how legal it would be.  

Collective thinking, and collective action will always win out over autonomous individualism.  Who built the bridges, highways, the automobiles that drive over them, the dams, the airports and the aircraft that fly into them?  Collaboration is the core of our existence as a social animal.

I don't like social distancing as a measure either.  It would be much better to be prepared, and attack the disease head-on.  Unfortunately, Tories and Republicans delight in cutting regulations to the bone, and stripping our society of public protections that could have prevented all of this.  Had the CDC not been defunded, it might have carried on studying the SARS virus as an academic exercise, but then have been wholly prepared when the Corvid-19 variant came along.

Instead, as soon as the Republicans came back in the government, the Republican gluttony resumed.  Tom Price was named head of the Health Department, and he lasted for only 9 months before resigning...following scrutiny of his use of private charters and military aircraft for personal pleasure travel.  His tenure was the shortest in the office's history.  But the command to cut-back remained in place.

Brenda Fitzgerald was appointed the head of the CDC, but resigned due to scrutiny of her financial holdings, which included stock in Japan Tobacco.  Her tenure was the shortest in the office's history, excluding interim appointments.  Again, the command to cut-back remained in place.

These positions were not even taken seriously.  Not only were they run by the budget slaughterers, but the department they ran was treated as a pig trough for the people appointed to run them.

Now, when we really need the services, there's nothing but an empty vessel...as the world pays the price for cut-backs and tax-cuts for Republicans and Tories.

Personally, I like the collective action better.

Didge I think we are coming at this conversation from different angles. I get what you’re saying re the vaccine. I do believe the US will probably come up with a vaccine first but what I am getting at is that it won’t matter here because people could not afford it because of private insurance. They NHS may be put under severe strain for a while, but they won’t EVER turn down care to a person for lack of money. That’s the single biggest difference. As someone who has dealt with both systems ( and funnily enough the German and French systems which have both pros and cons), trust me.

Also the Aggie brings up a good point about people here in the states favoring their “rights” above being told to do something by the government even if its for their own safety. That along with the lack of protection for the rights of workers is going to play a very important role in how this plays out over here.

There may or may not be leftovers as it smells divine. Gotta wait one more hour!

The search for a vaccinne is being led by two Aussie universities, one in Qld and one in Melbourne...

In conjunction with a couple American uni's and a couple in Britain;  working with Chinese health admin' and the American CDC..

Neither the US guvm'nt nor any "Big Pharma" entites are involved at a 'grass roots' level --  even though the Amerikans will claim credit where it's not due, while Big Pharma' companies will manage to gouge undeserved profits, as always..

And when it comes to actually producing the vaccines itself, the world leader in vaccine production remains the Oz company 'CSL',  despite the balderdash regularly emanating from Big Pharma markateers in both the US and Europe..

When it comes to actually distributing the vaccine, that will be up to each country's national gov't to organise, with the WHO helping at the international level and in '3rd World' and developing countries --
which doesn't bode well for the bottom 70% of American society ..

There may well be American uni's working with the Aussies, Brits and Chinese researchers --  but the privatised Aymerkun Health industry and their puppet gov't will ensure that Americans generally aren't getting the vaccines when and where needed...

Cass wrote:Didge I think we are coming at this conversation from different angles. I get what you’re saying re the vaccine. I do believe the US will probably come up with a vaccine first but what I am getting at is that it won’t matter here because people could not afford it because of private insurance. They NHS may be put under severe strain for a while, but they won’t EVER turn down care to a person for lack of money. That’s the single biggest difference. As someone who has dealt with both systems ( and funnily enough the German and French systems which have both pros and cons), trust me.

Also the Aggie brings up a good point about people here in the states favoring their “rights” above being told to do something by the government even if its for their own safety. That along with the lack of protection for the rights of workers is going to play a very important role in how this plays out over here.

There may or may not be leftovers as it smells divine. Gotta wait one more hour!

If it's like the flu shot, everyone that wants it, will get it. Medicare, Medicade and the county hospitals will give it to the poor. The rest will have the money or insurance to get it on their own.

It will be like vaccines. Cost doesnt stop people from getting them.

And the vaccine will most likely be created in the US, and quite possibly in one of our universities that have government subsidized research.

Maddog wrote:

Cass wrote:Didge I think we are coming at this conversation from different angles. I get what you’re saying re the vaccine. I do believe the US will probably come up with a vaccine first but what I am getting at is that it won’t matter here because people could not afford it because of private insurance. They NHS may be put under severe strain for a while, but they won’t EVER turn down care to a person for lack of money. That’s the single biggest difference. As someone who has dealt with both systems ( and funnily enough the German and French systems which have both pros and cons), trust me.

Also the Aggie brings up a good point about people here in the states favoring their “rights” above being told to do something by the government even if its for their own safety. That along with the lack of protection for the rights of workers is going to play a very important role in how this plays out over here.

There may or may not be leftovers as it smells divine. Gotta wait one more hour!

If it's like the flu shot, everyone that wants it, will get it.  Medicare, Medicade and the county hospitals will give it to the poor.  The rest will have the money or insurance to get it on their own.  

It will be like vaccines. Cost doesnt stop people from getting them.  

We don’t have a county hospital. Not a lot of places do anymore except for big areas.

The county health department does do free immunizations for 18 and under and has limited availability for those adults without insurance but how do they get to the clinics when there is no transportation? ACCHS or Medicaid has been stripped down to the bare bones here in AZ with a lot of adults being denied coverage. Those with any type of insurance do have to pay a fee either through insurance, at the health department or at a clinic like Walmart/CVS/Walgreens. A hell of a lot of people cannot afford $25 to pay or more for a shot. Including all of my volunteers. It’s really that simple. I’m not trying to be superior, or a know it all, honestly. I’m just trying to show you and others what the day to day reality is of rural Americans living in poverty.

But in my opinion this all is all kind of moot because by the time the vaccine is widely available, it will be too late. It will help in the future but right now people have to start taking this a bit more seriously. If a great world wide pandemic doesn’t happen, well that’s terrific and the best outcome. But in situations like this, there are far too many variables in the mix.

The amount of memes on Facebook this morning about bloody toilet paper running out is beyond ridiculous. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, better to be prepared and have a plan for worst case scenario than being caught out. If something bad happens, then who is going to be shouting the loudest? Those who didn’t plan. I realize that not everybody can afford or prep and that I’m extremely lucky that I can. But I’m going to try my hardest to make sure that I can help as much as possible with my patrons or those in need in my town. Because as well as buying stuff for us I’ve bought stuff for the local food pantries. I’m not a saint. Far from it. It’s just common decency.