The Euros....Go England!

First topic message reminder :

We are doing well! We even beat Germany!

And a four nil win against Ukraine!!!

Eilzel wrote:Yeah, let’s just assume the best of two people who have proven time and again to be pretty awful human beings.

They knew who they were sucking up to.

Let's not stop with those two, if you want to go down that road.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Where is this racism...!?


All I've seen is people complaining about the alleged racism... But no examples of the alleged racism...!

Racist grafitti was daubed across the Rashford mural for a start. You dont go on Twitter and Facebook do you?

"TWITTER has deleted more than 1,000 racist posts towards England players in 24 hours.

A barrage of abuse was aimed at Marcus Rashford, Bukayo Saka and Jadon Sancho after the Three Lions were beaten on penalties in an agonising final.A string of public figures including Prince William and Boris Johnson have now slammed the trolls - with Twitter confirming they have taken action.

The social media platform said over 1,000 tweets have been deleted that violated its policy and a number of accounts have also been suspended.

A spokesperson said: "The abhorrent racist abuse directed at England players last night has absolutely no place on Twitter."

Facebook confirmed it also had removed comments and accounts following the abuse."







https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/15571088/twitter-deletes-racist-posts-england-players/

I didn't see what was written on that mural... Did you?


Was it racism?


Or was it just a slagging off for being a twat and missing the penalties?


Also... About 30 million here watched that final... So about 1000 abusive posts really is "only a few" idiots in comparison... So is it really such a big deal?


And all this knee jerk rubbish about banning them from football matches for life... Who's to say any of them have ever been to an actual football match?


Who's to say who any of the people are who have made these alleged comments?


Could be anyone for any reason...


It's funny how none of these 3 are getting the slating that other penalty missers have got in previous tournaments... But how they are a special sort of protected species who are above any form of criticism now...!

Les wrote:But when Patel and Johnson made their statements on the issue, they did do knowing full well the crowd they were playing to. The same crowd made up a % of those who voted them in, obviously. And let’s not pretend those sending racist attacks are not also likely to be those booing.

It’s made dichotomous by the framing in which they put themselves: “it’s ok to boo taking the knee”. Makes it pretty clear, eh?

It's not a crime to boo...


The players should not be doing the BLM knee salute before any game... It's football not politics... I would boo too!!!

On the rashford mural...


Pale writing branded on the mural appeared to say "F*** Sancho", while another message, which is more difficult to read, seemingly contained the words, "S**te" and "B*****d".



Yeah!!! That's really racist isn't it!!!???

Tommy Monk wrote:


It's not a crime to boo...


The players should not be doing the BLM knee salute before any game... It's football not politics... I would boo too!!!

You don't like it when BLM protestors protest in the street either. So they can't win. Opposing racism isn't about politics, it's about humanity. The ones saying it is about politics are part of the problem.

I'm not opposed to peaceful protests.


BLM is not a peaceful group.


And our national footbal team should not be bringing politics into football.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Syl wrote:


Racist grafitti was daubed across the Rashford mural for a start. You dont go on Twitter and Facebook do you?

"TWITTER has deleted more than 1,000 racist posts towards England players in 24 hours.

A barrage of abuse was aimed at Marcus Rashford, Bukayo Saka and Jadon Sancho after the Three Lions were beaten on penalties in an agonising final.A string of public figures including Prince William and Boris Johnson have now slammed the trolls - with Twitter confirming they have taken action.

The social media platform said over 1,000 tweets have been deleted that violated its policy and a number of accounts have also been suspended.

A spokesperson said: "The abhorrent racist abuse directed at England players last night has absolutely no place on Twitter."

Facebook confirmed it also had removed comments and accounts following the abuse."







https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/15571088/twitter-deletes-racist-posts-england-players/

I didn't see what was written on that mural... Did you?


Was it racism?


Or was it just a slagging off for being a twat and missing the penalties?


Also... About 30 million here watched that final... So about 1000 abusive posts really is "only a few" idiots in comparison... So is it really such a big deal?


And all this knee jerk rubbish about banning them from football matches for life... Who's to say any of them have ever been to an actual football match?


Who's to say who any of the people are who have made these alleged comments?


Could be anyone for any reason...


It's funny how none of these 3 are getting the slating that other penalty missers have got in previous tournaments... But how they are a special sort of protected species who are above any form of criticism now...!

Of course they have been slated for missing the penalties, as has Southgate for putting them up for the penalties and not warming two of them up.

Why are you talking about "alleged" comments and doubting the graffiti daubed on the mural was racist?
It's already been reported that men have been sacked, charged with racism, and when traced racist abusers will be banned from further football games.
Like mentioned Twitter and Facebook have taken down thousands of racist posts, yet you still wonder whether they were really racist.

How about this that was taken down from social media....is this racist enough for you?

Tommy Monk wrote:It's not a crime to boo...

The players should not be doing the BLM knee salute before any game... It's football not politics... I would boo too!!!

If it's not politics, why are they playing the national anthem? Get on with the game and fook all this fuddy-duddy nationalism.

The point is, if they are going to make it political - and they do by this saluting-the-flag ritual - then BLM has a right to put in their opinion. It's a free country, innit?

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:



I didn't see what was written on that mural... Did you?


Was it racism?


Or was it just a slagging off for being a twat and missing the penalties?


Also... About 30 million here watched that final... So about 1000 abusive posts really is "only a few" idiots in comparison... So is it really such a big deal?


And all this knee jerk rubbish about banning them from football matches for life... Who's to say any of them have ever been to an actual football match?


Who's to say who any of the people are who have made these alleged comments?


Could be anyone for any reason...


It's funny how none of these 3 are getting the slating that other penalty missers have got in previous tournaments... But how they are a special sort of protected species who are above any form of criticism now...!

Of course they have been slated for missing the penalties, as has Southgate for putting them up for the penalties and not warming two of them up.

Why are you talking about "alleged" comments and doubting the graffiti daubed on the mural was racist?
It's already been reported that men have been sacked, charged with racism, and when traced racist abusers will be banned from further football games.
Like mentioned Twitter and Facebook have taken down thousands of racist posts, yet you still wonder whether they were really racist.

How about this that was taken down from social media....is this racist enough for you?

JACKSON, Miss. (AP) — A member of a black church in Mississippi has pleaded guilty to burning the church, which was also spray painted with the slogan “Vote Trump,” a week before the 2016 presidential election.

Andrew McClinton, 47, pleaded guilty to arson Thursday, the Delta Democrat-Times reported. His sentencing is set for late April.

Investigators said McClinton, who is African-American, belonged to Hopewell Missionary Baptist Church in Greenville, which was vandalized and burned.


Not saying something like this is happening as there are people who still harbor some shitty feelings towards people who are different, but anonymous acts are sometimes done by those that have something to "gain" by stirring the pot.

In spite of comments to the contrary, they don't want things to be peaceful.

Remember Jussie Smollett?


The hate attack on Empire star Jussie Smollett is now alleged to be a hoax. That shouldn’t surprise anyone.

Smollett’s story was bizarre, bordering on the absurd. He claimed to have been attacked — at 2:00am in Chicago — by two men, in some early reports, wearing red MAGA hats, who called him “that Empire n_____,” yelled “this is MAGA country,” and poured bleach on him while putting a noose around his neck.

The questions here are obvious. How many Trump supporters even exist in the downtown of a city that went 83% for Hillary Clinton — and how many of them watch "Empire?" How many guys looking for a fight carry rope and bottles of bleach around with them? Almost every normal citizen had questions like these about this incident, and we were justified in having them.

That this case turned out to be a hoax shouldn't come as too big of a shock. A great many hate crime stories turn out to be hoaxes. Simply looking at what happened to the most widely reported hate crime stories over the past 4-5 years illustrates this: not only the Smollett case but also the Yasmin Seweid, Air Force Academy, Eastern Michigan, Wisconsin-Parkside, Kean College, Covington Catholic, and “Hopewell Baptist burning” racial scandals all turned out to be fakes. And, these cases are not isolated outliers.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/02/22/jussie-smollett-empire-attack-fired-cut-video-chicago-fox-column/2950146002/


Unfortuantely this shit isn't rare, and it's done because it works.

Tommy Monk wrote:

I'm not opposed to peaceful protests.


BLM is not a peaceful group.


And our national footbal team should not be bringing politics into football.

They didn’t.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:It's not a crime to boo...

The players should not be doing the BLM knee salute before any game... It's football not politics... I would boo too!!!

If it's not politics, why are they playing the national anthem?  Get on with the game and fook all this fuddy-duddy nationalism.

The point is, if they are going to make it political - and they do by this saluting-the-flag ritual - then BLM has a right to put in their opinion.  It's a free country, innit?

There is a difference between politics and patriotism.

Maddog wrote:Either support kneeling or you encourage racism is a false dichotomy.  

I dont supprt kneeling, I would never do it myself, but neither would I boo anyone who does it if they are making a peaceful statement.
I think not supporting kneeling or the radical BLM groups who often seem to cause more not less mayhem is nothing to do with racism....unless it's pointed out that the BLM movement often seem to be racist against whites.

I abhor the real racism of treating people as lesser because of their colour, and using that difference to demean them, as is exactly what has happened here.

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

If it's not politics, why are they playing the national anthem? Get on with the game and fook all this fuddy-duddy nationalism.

The point is, if they are going to make it political - and they do by this saluting-the-flag ritual - then BLM has a right to put in their opinion. It's a free country, innit?

There is a difference between politics and patriotism.

Really? You would be patriotic to that in which you do not believe? In a democracy, the idea is that the people rule themselves. As such, they must have what every ruler has, free expression.

Being is doing…how can you be patriotic and yet not engage in that which you are patriotic to?

As Polonius said:

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Hamlet, 1:3.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:Either support kneeling or you encourage racism is a false dichotomy.  

I dont supprt kneeling, I would never do it myself, but neither would I boo anyone who does it if they are making a peaceful statement.
I think not supporting kneeling or the radical  BLM groups who often seem to cause more not less mayhem is nothing to do with racism....unless it's pointed out that the BLM movement often seem to be racist against whites.

I abhor the real racism of treating people as lesser because of their colour, and using that difference to demean them, as is exactly what has happened here.

Well, you're a complex creature like myself and don't have to buy into one side or the other.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:



I didn't see what was written on that mural... Did you?


Was it racism?


Or was it just a slagging off for being a twat and missing the penalties?


Also... About 30 million here watched that final... So about 1000 abusive posts really is "only a few" idiots in comparison... So is it really such a big deal?


And all this knee jerk rubbish about banning them from football matches for life... Who's to say any of them have ever been to an actual football match?


Who's to say who any of the people are who have made these alleged comments?


Could be anyone for any reason...


It's funny how none of these 3 are getting the slating that other penalty missers have got in previous tournaments... But how they are a special sort of protected species who are above any form of criticism now...!

Of course they have been slated for missing the penalties, as has Southgate for putting them up for the penalties and not warming two of them up.

Why are you talking about "alleged" comments and doubting the graffiti daubed on the mural was racist?
It's already been reported that men have been sacked, charged with racism, and when traced racist abusers will be banned from further football games.
Like mentioned Twitter and Facebook have taken down thousands of racist posts, yet you still wonder whether they were really racist.

How about this that was taken down from social media....is this racist enough for you?

Of course I agree that is a nasty racist comment... But posted by who and from where and for what reason...?


Look at the time stamped on it...


And the date isn't UK format either...!

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

I'm not opposed to peaceful protests.


BLM is not a peaceful group.


And our national footbal team should not be bringing politics into football.

They didn’t.

They did, every time they knelt doing the BLM salute!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Syl wrote:

Of course they have been slated for missing the penalties, as has Southgate for putting them up for the penalties and not warming two of them up.

Why are you talking about "alleged" comments and doubting the graffiti daubed on the mural was racist?
It's already been reported that men have been sacked, charged with racism, and when traced racist abusers will be banned from further football games.
Like mentioned Twitter and Facebook have taken down thousands of racist posts, yet you still wonder whether they were really racist.

How about this that was taken down from social media....is this racist enough for you?

Of course I agree that is a nasty racist comment... But posted by who and from where and for what reason...?


Look at the time stamped on it...


And the date isn't UK format either...!

So what?
It could have been posted by any anonymous creep from anywhere.
You seem to be more keen in denying Rashford and co were racially abused than facing up to truth that they have been targetted in a disgusting way because they are black.

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:

There is a difference between politics and patriotism.

Really?  You would be patriotic to that in which you do not believe?  In a democracy, the idea is that the people rule themselves.  As such, they must have what every ruler has, free expression.

Being is doing…how can you be patriotic and yet not engage in that which you are patriotic to?

As Polonius said:

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Hamlet, 1:3.

I think it's quite rousing to hear a countries national anthem played before a sporting event.
We will hear plenty in the coming weeks when Olympians collect their medals.
Politics has nothing to do with it, it's pride for doing well for the country they represent.

Incidentally, the idiots who booed the national anthems of the opposing countries before the football matches, were as iignorant as the ones who booed the knee taking imo.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:



Of course I agree that is a nasty racist comment... But posted by who and from where and for what reason...?


Look at the time stamped on it...


And the date isn't UK format either...!

So what?
It could have been posted by any anonymous creep  from anywhere.
You seem to be more keen in denying Rashford and co were racially abused than facing up to truth that they have been targetted in a disgusting way because they are black.

Tommy has a point. That was posted by an American, probably in the Central Time Zone, if it was posted right after the match.

It was reposted by someone who had read the origional post obviously.
Why does it matter what time it was posted?

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:



Of course I agree that is a nasty racist comment... But posted by who and from where and for what reason...?


Look at the time stamped on it...


And the date isn't UK format either...!

So what?
It could have been posted by any anonymous creep from anywhere.
You seem to be more keen in denying Rashford and co were racially abused than facing up to truth that they have been targetted in a disgusting way because they are black.

I just agreed with you that the comment was nasty and racist... I just questioned the origin, who posted it, and why...?


That was the only example I've seen of this alleged tirade of racist abuse so far... And it has serious question marks over it...


So where is all this racist abuse?


30 million or so UK based England fans watched that match here... And the media and others have been been bending over backwards to claim and condemn the alleged tsunami of racist abuse that was directed at the 3 England players by white English football fans... But it's very difficult to actually see any evidence of this...!

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Really? You would be patriotic to that in which you do not believe? In a democracy, the idea is that the people rule themselves. As such, they must have what every ruler has, free expression.

Being is doing…how can you be patriotic and yet not engage in that which you are patriotic to?

As Polonius said:

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Hamlet, 1:3.

I think it's quite rousing to hear a countries national anthem played before a sporting event.
We will hear plenty in the coming weeks when Olympians collect their medals.
Politics has nothing to do with it, it's pride for doing well for the country they represent.

Politics has nothing to do with country? How surprising!

Any way you put it, if the playing of a national anthem is appropriate to rouse spirit, it is also appropriate for second class citizens to take a knee to express their 'diminished' spirit for their 'diminished' status. It works either way.

But if you're going to say that the “national anthem” is not politically sacrosanct, why don't we just do away with it? If it’s truly not national, it would be much more in keeping to play the theme song from the latest Disney movie. It would do away with the issue, and that way they could make money on it...and lord knows these teams need more money!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

I'm not opposed to peaceful protests.


BLM is not a peaceful group.


And our national footbal team should not be bringing politics into football.

They didn’t.

They did, every time they knelt doing the BLM salute!

Fighting racism isn’t political, it’s a human rights issue.

Bullshit!

Tommy Monk wrote:


Bullshit!

As someone with your attitude toward human rights, your response is not surprising.

Syl wrote:It was reposted by someone who had read the origional post obviously.
Why does it matter what time it was posted?

The time stamp indicates it was posted in the US, right after the match ended. Does Jussie Smollet still live in Chicago?

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


They did, every time they knelt doing the BLM salute!

Fighting racism isn’t political, it’s a human rights issue.

Human rights are political.

Maddog wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Fighting racism isn’t political, it’s a human rights issue.

Human rights are political.

Everything is political, from the family dining table chit-chat to geopolitical negotiation.  Politics is a verb as well as a noun, and as a verb it means a certain kind of behavior.  So while politics in one sense implies a certain high level of economic or sovereign importance, it also implies the manner in which a stratagem is played.

Human Rights rises above the standard yin and yang of political choice.  As we are all human beings, human rights are those that apply to us all, belong to us all, and are the formula by which value is distributed to us all.  Given this, when you deny anyone his/her human rights, the inevitable and constant question is...who's next?

Maddog wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


They did, every time they knelt doing the BLM salute!

Fighting racism isn’t political, it’s a human rights issue.

Human rights are political.

Everything is political, but as Quill points out, only human rights can rise above it.

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Bullshit!

As someone with your attitude toward human rights, your response is not surprising.

With your attitude to politics, it is no surprise you think that the BLM knee salute has a place at the start of a football match...


If you had your way, they would also be wearing all manner of wrist bands and badges and arm bands in support of all manner of other left wing gesture politics... And while you're at it, why not get them all to sing a few bars of 'its raining men' while dancing about in drag...!?





Even though FIFA, the world governing body prohibits ‘political, religious or commercial messages’ being displayed on the pitch.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

As someone with your attitude toward human rights, your response is not surprising.

With your attitude to politics, it is no surprise you think that the BLM knee salute has a place at the start of a football match...

If you had your way, they would also be wearing all manner of wrist bands and badges and arm bands in support of all manner of other left wing gesture politics... And while you're at it, why not get them all to sing a few bars of 'its raining men' while dancing about in drag...!?



Even though FIFA, the world governing body prohibits ‘political, religious or commercial messages’ being displayed on the pitch.

Hate to say it tom...but you would have the footballers goose-stepping while running after the ball...and forever losing.  

The BLM knee has no less a place at the start of the match, than the playing of the national anthem.  If you're going to bring in national spirit, it's only fair to bring in national comment!  Don't start a conversation unless you expect a response.

I do not have a clue whether Black Lives Matter in the US is regarded as a political organisation or not (that is more in within Quill’s sphere of knowledge) but BLM U.K., which was formed in 2016, described itself in its own website as being a “black centred political will and movement building project.”

As recently as February this year the U.K. Electoral Commission received - and rejected - an application to register Black Lives Matter as a political party on the grounds that the party’s proposed name would be likely to prove misleading to voters.

Among objectives previously declared by the group were “deconstructing the concept of ‘family’ “ and defunding the police.

The principal group, BLM U.K., denied that it was “affiliated to the application.”

But……the Conservative Party has its shadowy and sometimes sinister offshoots, as has the Labour Party (to wit Momentum and Jeremy Corbyn Esq.)

BLM U.K. one of whose founder members described it as being a “political movement”,  brings to my mind the old adage that “if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it probably IS a duck.”

Eilzel wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Human rights are political.

Everything is political, but as Quill points out, only human rights can rise above it.

But never do.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Bullshit!

As someone with your attitude toward human rights, your response is not surprising.

With your attitude to politics, it is no surprise you think that the BLM knee salute has a place at the start of a football match...


If you had your way, they would also be wearing all manner of wrist bands and badges and arm bands in support of all manner of other left wing gesture politics... And while you're at it, why not get them all to sing a few bars of 'its raining men' while dancing about in drag...!?





Even though FIFA, the world governing body prohibits ‘political, religious or commercial messages’ being displayed on the pitch.

Players cross their hearts and point to god frequently before matches and after goals. Commercial messages are all over the place, on kits and around stadiums. Are you only supporting FIFA policing the open views of individuals?

Your objections are very pointed in one area. Luckily you never say any thing that otherwise might make me think you’re a bit of a racist yourself

Maddog wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Everything is political, but as Quill points out, only human rights can rise above it.

But never do.

In fact, ‘human rights’ fails to achieve its goals; in aspiration, the value of human rights always rises above petty politics. After all, it is what it is: a wish.

In this country, factions like southerners, neo-nazis, and post-communist Russo-Republicans, or Trumpsters, always try to cheat and steal from others...bringing about their own temporary advantage. But I believe we were talking about human rights as an aspiration. Certainly, that is the message in taking a knee at the start of a football match. If that is the topic, it's always an aspiration.

It announces a hope that we will all stop trying to tread upon others, and live in harmony.

It's football... Not politics

Tommy Monk wrote:

It's football... Not politics

Nor business. Stop all the commercial advertising, national anthems, exploitation, etc. Get on with football, if you mean what you say!

We can live with it either way...just not the duplicity of we should honor our country, even when it acts dishonorably toward us! D'ya think people are stupid?

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

It's football... Not politics

Nor business.  Stop all the commercial advertising, national anthems, exploitation, etc.  Get on with football, if you mean what you say!

We can live with it either way...just not the duplicity of we should honor our country, even when it acts dishonorably toward us!  D'ya think people are stupid?

Stop speaking sense, you’ll hurt his head!

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

But never do.  

In fact, ‘human rights’ fails to achieve its goals; in aspiration, the value of human rights always rises above petty politics.  After all, it is what it is: a wish.

In this country, factions like southerners, neo-nazis, and post-communist Russo-Republicans, or Trumpsters, always try to cheat and steal from others...bringing about their own temporary advantage.  But I believe we were talking about human rights as an aspiration.  Certainly, that is the message in taking a knee at the start of a football match.  If that is the topic, it's always an aspiration.

It announces a hope that we will all stop trying to tread upon others, and live in harmony.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of not treading on others.

Welcome to the dark side where we ask politicians to stop doing that under the guise of defending human rights.

What do you mean by "...treading on others?"

Georgia, Arizona and Texas are about to restrict voting rights of the poor, blacks and Hispanics. Isn't that "...treading on others?"

Tommy Monk wrote:

Syl wrote:

So what?
It could have been posted by any anonymous creep  from anywhere.
You seem to be more keen in denying Rashford and co were racially abused than facing up to truth that they have been targetted in a disgusting way because they are black.

I just agreed with you that the comment was nasty and racist... I just questioned the origin, who posted it, and why...?


That was the only example I've seen of this alleged tirade of racist abuse so far... And it has serious question marks over it...


So where is all this racist abuse?


30 million or so UK based England fans watched that match here... And the media and others have been been bending over backwards to claim and condemn the alleged tsunami of racist abuse that was directed at the 3 England players by white English football fans... But it's very difficult to actually see any evidence of this...!

Twitter and Facebook dont take down thousands of posts for fun.
You dont go on social media sites, so you wouldn't see the racist comments anyway.

I already mentioned that some of the racism posted online was not from England,  it could have been from anywhere.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

It's football... Not politics

Nor business. Stop all the commercial advertising, national anthems, exploitation, etc. Get on with football, if you mean what you say!

We can live with it either way...just not the duplicity of we should honor our country, even when it acts dishonorably toward us! D'ya think people are stupid?

Don't be an idiot... It's a tournament of national teams, so of course they play the national anthems... Just like how they play the anthems at the Olympics etc...


And there are always official sponsors involved in these types of big events too, with their brand/logo etc shown around the events and merchandise etc... All league football teams here have their corporate sponsors and their brand/logo emblazoned on the players football shirts... And plenty of other sports have pretty much the same going on...


None of this is new or any cause for controversy or arguments... This BLM knee salute however, is, and has no place on the football pitch.


There is already a long running and well known anti racism campaign in football called "kick it out", which is enough.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Nor business.  Stop all the commercial advertising, national anthems, exploitation, etc.  Get on with football, if you mean what you say!

We can live with it either way...just not the duplicity of we should honor our country, even when it acts dishonorably toward us!  D'ya think people are stupid?

Don't be an idiot... It's a tournament of national teams, so of course they play the national anthems... Just like how they play the anthems at the Olympics etc...


And there are always official sponsors involved in these types of big events too, with their brand/logo etc shown around the events and merchandise etc... All league football teams here have their corporate sponsors and their brand/logo emblazoned on the players football shirts... And plenty of other sports have pretty much the same going on...

None of this is new or any cause for controversy or arguments... This BLM knee salute however, is, and has no place on the football pitch.

There is already a long running and well known anti racism campaign in football called "kick it out", which is enough.

That's stupid. If commercial advertising is allowed, and plugs for countries are allowed, there's no reason not to allow a little political discourse. Doesn't cost anything except a few bruised egos...who deserve it for being so stupid.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

It's football... Not politics

Nor business.  Stop all the commercial advertising, national anthems, exploitation, etc.  Get on with football, if you mean what you say!

We can live with it either way...just not the duplicity of we should honor our country, even when it acts dishonorably toward us!  D'ya think people are stupid?

Don't be an idiot... It's a tournament of national teams, so of course they play the national anthems... Just like how they play the anthems at the Olympics etc...


And there are always official sponsors involved in these types of big events too, with their brand/logo etc shown around the events and merchandise etc... All league football teams here have their corporate sponsors and their brand/logo emblazoned on the players football shirts... And plenty of other sports have pretty much the same going on...


None of this is new or any cause for controversy or arguments... This BLM knee salute however, is, and has no place on the football pitch.


There is already a long running and well known anti racism campaign in football called "kick it out", which is enough.

So you’re ok with them playing the North Korean national anthem in western stadiums; and ok with ethically questionable businesses slapping their brand in our faces; but not players expressing a three second stance against racism before a match?

It’s only controversial if a lot of people say it shouldn’t happen. But who cares what a lot of racist think anyway?

Vandalism that was sprayed on a mural of Marcus Rashford is "not believed to be of a racial nature", say police.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-57852315





So... Still no evidence of any racist abuse...

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Don't be an idiot... It's a tournament of national teams, so of course they play the national anthems... Just like how they play the anthems at the Olympics etc...


And there are always official sponsors involved in these types of big events too, with their brand/logo etc shown around the events and merchandise etc... All league football teams here have their corporate sponsors and their brand/logo emblazoned on the players football shirts... And plenty of other sports have pretty much the same going on...


None of this is new or any cause for controversy or arguments... This BLM knee salute however, is, and has no place on the football pitch.


There is already a long running and well known anti racism campaign in football called "kick it out", which is enough.

So you’re ok with them playing the North Korean national anthem in western stadiums; and ok with ethically questionable businesses slapping their brand in our faces; but not players expressing a three second stance against racism before a match?

It’s only controversial if a lot of people say it shouldn’t happen. But who cares what a lot of racist think anyway?

Excuse me, don't tar everyone who doesn't like the gesture 'taking the knee' with racists.
People have every right to disagree with it, I say stand up tall and be counted to fight racism. Constantly rubbing peoples' faces in colonialism and slavery and blaming whole nations for something that happened way before they were even born and would have been out of the general populations control (populations who barely survived themselves) will surely push some people into the opposite direction to which is required or is that the real objective.

Vintage wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Don't be an idiot... It's a tournament of national teams, so of course they play the national anthems... Just like how they play the anthems at the Olympics etc...


And there are always official sponsors involved in these types of big events too, with their brand/logo etc shown around the events and merchandise etc... All league football teams here have their corporate sponsors and their brand/logo emblazoned on the players football shirts... And plenty of other sports have pretty much the same going on...


None of this is new or any cause for controversy or arguments... This BLM knee salute however, is, and has no place on the football pitch.


There is already a long running and well known anti racism campaign in football called "kick it out", which is enough.

So you’re ok with them playing the North Korean national anthem in western stadiums; and ok with ethically questionable businesses slapping their brand in our faces; but not players expressing a three second stance against racism before a match?

It’s only controversial if a lot of people say it shouldn’t happen. But who cares what a lot of racist think anyway?

Excuse me, don't tar everyone who doesn't like the gesture 'taking the knee' with racists.
People have every right to disagree with it, I say stand up tall and be counted to fight racism. Constantly rubbing peoples' faces in colonialism and slavery and blaming whole nations for something that happened way before they were even born and would have been out of the general populations control (populations who barely survived themselves) will surely push some people into the opposite direction to which is required or is that the real objective.

I already said earlier in the discussion I didn’t think all who opposed the knee were racists, I’m not going to repeat that same caveat in every post lol