The Euros....Go England!

First topic message reminder :

We are doing well! We even beat Germany!

And a four nil win against Ukraine!!!

I don't think anyone who gives the matter any thought could really believe that if you don't support taking the knee you are racist.

Booing though....is it really necessary? live and let live I say.

Tommy Monk wrote:



Vandalism that was sprayed on a mural of Marcus Rashford is "not believed to be of a racial nature", say police.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-57852315





So... Still no evidence of any racist abuse...

Apart from the thousands of posts taken down by Twitter and Facebook you mean?

The defacing of Rashfords mural was bad enough to warrant police investigation, not sure why you think it's funny, ..."Superintendent Richard Timson said members of the force were “left appalled” by the damage to the mural




Mo Farrar has now spoken out about racism sports stars have to endure, and he says it's getting worse.



"Racism towards black athletes is “getting worse” and social media companies need to be doing more to tackle online abuse, four-time Olympic champion Mo Farah has said.

Footballers Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho and Bukayo Saka were sent racist abuse after missing penalties in England’s defeat to Italy in the final of Euro 2020 on Sunday, with Saka admitting he “knew instantly” the hateful messages he would be sent following the match.

Farah said he has received some “shocking” racist comments online and has been left dismayed following the lack of action from social media companies to remove the abusive comments.

The 38-year-old called on those platforms to be “held accountable” and said more needs to be done to “shame” those who send racist abuse online.

“It seems like it’s getting worse in my honest opinion because back in my time there was never as much social media,” Farah, who won double gold in the 2012 and 2016 Olympic Games."



https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/mo-farah-racism-saka-rashford-sancho-b1885214.html

Syl wrote:I don't think anyone who gives the matter any thought could really believe that if you don't support taking the knee you are racist.

Booing though....is it really necessary? live and let live I say.

"White silence is violence"

Keep up with your ever growing level of racism. I know it's difficult.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:I don't think anyone who gives the matter any thought could really believe that if you don't support taking the knee you are racist.

Booing though....is it really necessary? live and let live I say.

"White silence is violence"

Keep up with your ever growing level of racism. I know it's difficult.  

"White silence"? Is that the latest 'woke' expression to be doing the rounds?

All I know is if I heard anyone being abused because of their colour I would say something, but then I tend to find it hard to keep quiet if I hear anyone being spoken to unfairly or nastily. I think a lot of women are like that tbh.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

"White silence is violence"

Keep up with your ever growing level of racism. I know it's difficult.  

"White silence"? Is that the latest 'woke' expression to be doing the rounds?

All I know is if I heard anyone being abused because of their colour I would say something, but then I tend to find it hard to keep quiet if I hear anyone being spoken to unfairly or nastily. I think a lot of women are like that tbh.

That's not enough. Take the knee or you're a racist.

Or at the very least cheer loudly for those that do.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-silence-on-social-media-why-not-saying-anything-is-actually-saying-a-lot/

Vintage wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

So you’re ok with them playing the North Korean national anthem in western stadiums; and ok with ethically questionable businesses slapping their brand in our faces; but not players expressing a three second stance against racism before a match?

It’s only controversial if a lot of people say it shouldn’t happen. But who cares what a lot of racist think anyway?

Excuse me, don't tar everyone who doesn't like the gesture 'taking the knee' with racists.
People have every right to disagree with it, I say stand up tall and be counted to fight racism. Constantly rubbing peoples' faces in colonialism and slavery and blaming whole nations for something that happened way before they were even born and would have been out of the general populations control (populations who barely survived themselves) will surely push some people into the opposite direction to which is required or is that the real objective.

Racism certainly does seem to have gotten worse in this country since the BLM became known here....from all sides.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

"White silence"? Is that the latest 'woke' expression to be doing the rounds?

All I know is if I heard anyone being abused because of their colour I would say something, but then I tend to find it hard to keep quiet if I hear anyone being spoken to unfairly or nastily. I think a lot of women are like that tbh.

That's not enough. Take the knee or you're a racist.

Or at the very least cheer loudly for those that do.

No.

Syl wrote:I don't think anyone who gives the matter any thought could really believe that if you don't support taking the knee you are racist.

Booing though....is it really necessary? live and let live I say.

Booing is a simply a centuries old way manner in which ordinary and otherwise powerless folk can express their displeasure or even disapproval of someone or something that they regard as being unacceptable. Even the highest and mightiest in the land, including the Sovereign, are not exempt from being booed by ordinary folk if they deem the occasion or situation to warrant it.

Unless, of course, one wants to live in a totalitarian state such as 20th century Nazi Germany or present day North Korea.

It may well be unkind, hurtful, disrespectful or even insulting…but it is not, and should not be, made illegal if we are to keep our already diminishing list of freedoms.

Having said that I personally would not boo sportsmen or anyone else who choose to “take the knee”  because I like to think that I have better manners. it is their choice, as Home Secretary Pritti Patel said - and quite rightly in my opinion. Her only mistake that she didn’t express her own opposition to racism which, given the vile way in which she herself has been targeted, we may take as being self evident.

But kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter, who initiated this gesture and promote it as a form of “salute”? Never will I do that, not in a million years, because in my book black lives do matter, but neither more nor less than ANY form of human life, regardless of race, colour or creed.

And if that, to some closed and bigoted minds, means that I am a racist, then so be it.

Vintage wrote:Excuse me, don't tar everyone who doesn't like the gesture 'taking the knee' with racists.
People have every right to disagree with it, I say stand up tall and be counted to fight racism. Constantly rubbing peoples' faces in colonialism and slavery and blaming whole nations for something that happened way before they were even born and would have been out of the general populations control (populations who barely survived themselves) will surely push some people into the opposite direction to which is required or is that the real objective.

WTF!!?  You sound like Trump…just deny it, and it will dematerialize!  Is this some virus that RW knuckle-draggers are catching?

Taking the knee is a personal statement.  It costs nothing…no money, no loss of life or limb, no clean-up, no loud noises, no property damage…not even time away from the game.  So, if you oppose something so ethereal and harmless, wtf is there for you to not like?  You can only be opposing the idea.

You can’t say: I oppose racism, but let’s deny anyone’s right to inoffensively, personally express the same.  That raises serious questions about your authenticity.

I admit, to say you oppose it for non-racial reasons appears to be a neutral stance.  But if you take that position, it becomes a question of standing: what grounds are left to oppose someone else taking a knee…except racism??

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Syl wrote:I don't think anyone who gives the matter any thought could really believe that if you don't support taking the knee you are racist.

Booing though....is it really necessary? live and let live I say.

Booing is a simply a centuries old way manner in which ordinary and otherwise powerless folk can express their displeasure or even disapproval of someone or something that they regard as being unacceptable. Even the highest and mightiest in the land, including the Sovereign, are not exempt from being booed by ordinary folk if they deem the occasion or situation to warrant it.

Unless, of course, one wants to live in a totalitarian state such as 20th century Nazi Germany or present day North Korea.

It may well be unkind, hurtful, disrespectful or even insulting…but it is not, and should not be, made illegal if we are to keep our already diminishing list of freedoms.

Having said that I personally would not boo sportsmen or anyone else who choose to “take the knee”  because I like to think that I have better manners. it is their choice, as Home Secretary Pritti Patel said - and quite rightly in my opinion. Her only mistake that she didn’t express her own opposition to racism which, given the vile way in which she herself has been targeted, we may take as being self evident.

But kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter, who initiated this gesture and promote it as a form of “salute”? Never will I do that, not in a million years, because in my book black lives do matter, but neither more nor less than ANY form of human life, regardless of race, colour or creed.

And if that, to some closed and bigoted minds, means that I am a racist, then so be it.

I agree with you, booing should not be made illegal, and I agree with you that to boo is to show disrespect, is hurtful and insulting to the team who choose to kneel.
I don't pray to give thanks for a meal, but I would never show disapproval if someone was sat at my table and prayed.

Why go out of your way to upset/insult if what someone is doing is hurting no one else?

Maddog wrote:https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-silence-on-social-media-why-not-saying-anything-is-actually-saying-a-lot/

I am not on social media but i think I get the gist.

So put simply, if someone makes a nasty post, be it racist, sexist, transphobic, etc, etc......if my 'friends' saw that and ignored it, preferring to post a selfie or a comment about some triviality....I too would be a bit put out.

But how often does it happen?
For eg, on this forum, this thread developed into the abuse the black players had on the English team
How many posters stayed silent? Apart from Tommy, everyone who has posted has voiced their disgust....only Tommy seems to deny it happens.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-silence-on-social-media-why-not-saying-anything-is-actually-saying-a-lot/

I am not on social media but i think I get the gist.

So put simply, if someone makes a nasty post, be it racist, sexist, transphobic, etc, etc......if my 'friends' saw that and ignored it, preferring to post a selfie or a comment about some triviality....I too would be a bit put out.

But how often does it happen?
For eg, on this forum, this thread developed into the abuse the black players had on the English team
How many posters stayed silent? Apart from Tommy, everyone who has posted has voiced their disgust....only Tommy seems to  deny it happens.

The gist is that you need to be proactively speaking out in favor of BLM.


If you wait until someone says something nasty, you're the problem.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

I am not on social media but i think I get the gist.

So put simply, if someone makes a nasty post, be it racist, sexist, transphobic, etc, etc......if my 'friends' saw that and ignored it, preferring to post a selfie or a comment about some triviality....I too would be a bit put out.

But how often does it happen?
For eg, on this forum, this thread developed into the abuse the black players had on the English team
How many posters stayed silent? Apart from Tommy, everyone who has posted has voiced their disgust....only Tommy seems to  deny it happens.

The gist is that you need to be proactively speaking out in favor of BLM.


If you wait until someone says something nasty, you're the problem.

Like I said, I think that the BLM movement have hindered not helped their cause, at least in the UK, so on that note, I guess you are right....I am the problem.

Original Quill wrote:

Vintage wrote:Excuse me, don't tar everyone who doesn't like the gesture 'taking the knee' with racists.
People have every right to disagree with it, I say stand up tall and be counted to fight racism. Constantly rubbing peoples' faces in colonialism and slavery and blaming whole nations for something that happened way before they were even born and would have been out of the general populations control (populations who barely survived themselves) will surely push some people into the opposite direction to which is required or is that the real objective.

WTF!!?  You sound like Trump…just deny it, and it will dematerialize!  Is this some virus that RW knuckle-draggers are catching?

Taking the knee is a personal statement.  It costs nothing…no money, no loss of life or limb, no clean-up, no loud noises, no property damage…not even time away from the game.  So, if you oppose something so ethereal and harmless, wtf is there for you to not like?  You can only be opposing the idea.

You can’t say: I oppose racism, but let’s deny anyone’s right to inoffensively, personally express the same.  That raises serious questions about your authenticity.

I admit, to say you oppose it for non-racial reasons appears to be a neutral stance.  But if you take that position, it becomes a question of standing: what grounds are left to oppose someone else taking a knee…except racism??

With respect, Quill, Vintage said no such thing; in fact I agree strongly with all she does say. And, frankly, I resent your implication of those holding such legitimate opinions as being in any way comparable to “RW knuckle draggers.”

As I have said before, if anyone - whether they are national sporting celebrities or members of Little Snoring Carpet Bowls Club - wish to “take the knee” about BLM, racism, climate change, fox hunting, eating meat or anything else, then they can do so. I’m not going to oppose them, but on the other hand I’m not necessarily going to support them. And I’m certainly not going to join them in making what I regard as a silly, futile gesture that in my book still represents its original meaning of fealty, homage and submission.

And as for slavery and colonialism, they are part of world history…and the reason for studying history is not so we should now be making ridiculous and meaningless grovelling “apologies” for something for which no recent generation was in any way responsible, but to learn from and rectify the mistakes and prevailing standards of our long dead ancestors.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

The gist is that you need to be proactively speaking out in favor of BLM.


If you wait until someone says something nasty, you're the problem.

Like I said, I think that the BLM movement have hindered not helped their cause, at least in the UK, so on that note, I guess you are right....I am the problem.

Much better.

Quill will be pleased in your admission of guilt.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:



Vandalism that was sprayed on a mural of Marcus Rashford is "not believed to be of a racial nature", say police.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-57852315





So... Still no evidence of any racist abuse...

Apart from the thousands of posts taken down by Twitter and Facebook you mean?

The defacing of Rashfords mural was bad enough to warrant police investigation, not sure why you think it's funny, ..."Superintendent Richard Timson said members of the force were “left appalled” by the damage to the mural




Mo Farrar has now spoken out about racism sports stars have to endure, and he says it's getting worse.



"Racism towards black athletes is “getting worse” and social media companies need to be doing more to tackle online abuse, four-time Olympic champion Mo Farah has said.

Footballers Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho and Bukayo Saka were sent racist abuse after missing penalties in England’s defeat to Italy in the final of Euro 2020 on Sunday, with Saka admitting he “knew instantly” the hateful messages he would be sent following the match.

Farah said he has received some “shocking” racist comments online and has been left dismayed following the lack of action from social media companies to remove the abusive comments.

The 38-year-old called on those platforms to be “held accountable” and said more needs to be done to “shame” those who send racist abuse online.

“It seems like it’s getting worse in my honest opinion because back in my time there was never as much social media,” Farah, who won double gold in the 2012 and 2016 Olympic Games."



https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/mo-farah-racism-saka-rashford-sancho-b1885214.html

The posts allegedly taken down you mean... No evidence of any posts at all... Just a load of media stories claiming that there were...


And any idiot could have seen the rashford mural graffiti was not racist, if they had been allowed to actually read it...


But all we had was wall to wall waffle for 3 days about how racist it was... Followed by a very quiet news story being released that it wasn't racist at all...!!!


But the idea that it was racist has been the big bit of mud that has stuck!!!


Trial by media... With no actual evidence!!!


All politically correct pro black propaganda!!!

My stance on taking the knee is that if a thing is over used and/or used as a political tool to bash others over the head with then it soon becomes not only tedious and loses all meaning, it also has the completely opposite psychological effect it was designed to provoke.

No evidence Tommy claims?

Even though a number of people have been arrested

Over a thousand posts reported and deleted on social media

And yet Tommy refuses to Comden this racism and makes excuses

Whether you believe or not the extent of this racism that did happen tommy

Why do you continually seek to deny this happening?

By saying black propaganda says everything in regards to your racism Tommy

As humans are one race and yet you claim to discount the racism received by 3 English players, because of the colour of their skin

Is to you "black" propaganda

Wow

What is black propaganda tommy?

It seems to me you are disbelieving the evidence and backing white people who are racist

Why is that?

I mean surely Tommy you can condemn racism?

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

The gist is that you need to be proactively speaking out in favor of BLM.

If you wait until someone says something nasty, you're the problem.

Like I said, I think that the BLM movement have hindered not helped their cause, at least in the UK, so on that note, I guess you are right....I am the problem.

That's an honest opinion...let them sink or swim with their cause. That's an acceptable challenge that always accompanies every free expression of speech. As Voltaire said: I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend your right to say it.

But what underlies the critics here is, they want BLM not to even have a voice. They want censorship. 'Take-a-knee' is just a political expression, which opponents just want to shut up.

I liken it to the gay marriage debate...wtf business is it of yours? It's not costing you anything for them to express themselves. So, likewise, if you don't like black people complaining about being murdered, admit it and be on your way.

HoratioTarr wrote:My stance on taking the knee is that if a thing is over used and/or used as a political tool to bash others over the head with then it soon becomes not only tedious and loses all meaning, it also has the completely opposite psychological effect it was designed to provoke.

Exactly. I think most people have seen injustices based on race, especially us more seasoned people. We know that problems existed and there are still small pockets of flat out racist people.

But at some point you become the nagging wife that reminds her husband of every dumb thing he has ever done, inspite of his apology. It's then that you are making things worse.

It's no longer being done to make things better, but to punish people. It's all negative. There's no positive feedback to the millions who are doing the right thing.

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:

Like I said, I think that the BLM movement have hindered not helped their cause, at least in the UK, so on that note, I guess you are right....I am the problem.

That's an honest opinion...let them sink or swim with their cause.  That's an acceptable challenge that always accompanies every free expression of speech.  As Voltaire said: I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend your right to say it.

But what underlies the critics here is, they want BLM not to even have a voice.  They want censorship.  'Take-a-knee' is just a political expression, which opponents just want to shut up.

I liken it to the gay marriage debate...wtf business is it of yours?  It's not costing you anything for them to express themselves.  So, likewise, if you don't like black people complaining about being murdered, admit it and be on your way.

I think you should have the right to kneel, and I should have the right to say you're not helping anyone.  


In fact someone like you, who is retired and a supposed educator could be spending time in the black community mentoring and educating kids, instead of being a pompous ass on here.  That's how you make a difference in that community. Not by silly poses.

Fred M. wrote:With respect, Quill, Vintage said no such thing; in fact I agree strongly with all she does say. And, frankly, I resent your implication of those holding such legitimate opinions as being in any way comparable to “RW knuckle draggers.”

What is “legitimate” about an opinion that there should not be free speech?  That’s what you are saying when you support one who argues against a physical expression that neither harms, nor inconveniences anyone.

To your credit, you relent when you say about take-a-knee: “…they can do so”.  But that is your personal position in this one instance.  You are still are wrong when you say that it is appropriate or permissible to oppose free speech.  The only people who fear free speech are those who get caught doing something wrong.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

That's an honest opinion...let them sink or swim with their cause.  That's an acceptable challenge that always accompanies every free expression of speech.  As Voltaire said: I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend your right to say it.

But what underlies the critics here is, they want BLM not to even have a voice.  They want censorship.  'Take-a-knee' is just a political expression, which opponents just want to shut up.

I liken it to the gay marriage debate...wtf business is it of yours?  It's not costing you anything for them to express themselves.  So, likewise, if you don't like black people complaining about being murdered, admit it and be on your way.

I think you should have the right to kneel, and I should have the right to say you're not helping anyone.

I think that is the proper approach ^. The way to oppose what is said under freedom of speech, is to say something of your own in response. That creates a dialogue, which can foster agreement and peace much better than fisticuffs or arms...or, indeed, laws or rules prohibiting free speech.

When one makes a gesture that expresses something, the proper counter to answer...not prohibit.

Original Quill wrote:

Fred M. wrote:With respect, Quill, Vintage said no such thing; in fact I agree strongly with all she does say. And, frankly, I resent your implication of those holding such legitimate opinions as being in any way comparable to “RW knuckle draggers.”

What is “legitimate” about an opinion that there should not be free speech?  That’s what you are saying when you support one who argues against a physical expression that neither harms, nor inconveniences anyone.

To your credit, you relent when you say about take-a-knee: “…they can do so”.  But that is your personal position in this one instance.  You are still are wrong when you say that it is appropriate or permissible to oppose free speech.  The only people who fear free speech are those who get caught doing something wrong.

I am somewhat surprised that a lawyer should be asking a journalist to qualify his use of the word “legitimate” in this context, given that when used as an adjective it simply means “conforming to the law or rules.”

Vintage and I were both expressing our personal opinions to third parties in this forum - in other words publishing them - and because they were in no conceivable way “calculated to incite racial hatred”, they contravened neither the U.K. Public Order Act of 1986 nor the Race Relations Act of 1976, both of which criminalised the expression or publication of such views and laid down maximum jail sentence of two years.
In other words the opinions that we expressed were legitimate in accordance with U.K. law.

Had either of us posted something like “all black people should be sent back to their own counties”, that would (and has previously been in at least one U.K. criminal court) deemed to be such an incitement and would therefore be illegal - or not legitimate if you prefer.

I am also an ardent supporter of the freedom of speech, no less than you or anyone else here, but in today’s litigious age freedom of speech does carry with it certain risks, potentially either criminal or civil or even both.
Maybe we should all become MPs…who have the great parliamentary privilege of being able to say exactly what they wish to say, so long as it is done in the House.

Fortunately all of us possess the freedom of THOUGHT….for the present at least.

This thread and 99% of the posts in it are really interesting.

My thoughts about the BLM movement is they often seem to bully people into standing with them...and if people won't be bullied they are then themselves discriminated against.

I am sure, in the UK anyway, a very small percent of people are racist, and being told we are racist because we are not bobbing up and down on one knee, or forever droning on about how badly the black man has been treated through the decades doesn't make us so either.

If we see racism, we can call it out there and then, just as many have done re the way the young black England players have been treated.


Freedom of actions and speech works both ways.

Syl wrote:This thread and 99% of the posts in it are really interesting.

My thoughts about the BLM movement is they often seem to bully people into standing with them...and if people won't be bullied they are then themselves discriminated against.

I am sure, in the UK anyway, a very small percent of people are racist, and being told we are racist because we are not bobbing up and down on one knee, or forever droning on about how badly the black man has been treated through the decades doesn't make us so either.

If we see racism, we can call it out there and then, just as many have done re the way the young black England players have been treated.


Freedom of actions and speech works both ways.

The main reason why BLM will get neither support nor encouragement from me is that some of their leading activists, including Sasha Johnson (shot and badly wounded in London in May in what appears to be a drug gang related incident) and members of her cohort have frequently been photographed while out “campaigning” for the cause while wearing black paramilitary uniforms complete with berets, combat trousers, boots, ant-stab vests and the obligatory sunglasses even at night…all clearly designed to appear as intimidatory and threatening as possible.

Personally, I need no instruction in the evils of racism from people like that.

Fred M. wrote:I am somewhat surprised that a lawyer should be asking a journalist to qualify his use of the word “legitimate” in this context, given that when used as an adjective it simply means “conforming to the law or rules.”

I am a logician first, and a lawyer second. When one says something [fill in blank] is legitimate, one is saying it is primary and thus authoritative. If one says that censorship and suppressing free speech is primary and authoritative, of course I’m going to disagree. Free speech fosters dialogue; suppressing it fosters warfare.

You keep going back into the yin and yang of your posts, when I’m trying to boil it down to its simplest terms. You keep denying that you are trying to “incite racial hatred”, when that is not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about freedom of speech.

The “act” in this case is a symbolic taking of a knee - symbolic of (in the original case) America’s callous disregard for black lives. Some have said that such specific act is a forbidden symbol…that it is inappropriate and ‘against the law or rules’ (it is not), or disrespectful, or a ‘wet-blanket’ on the occasion. I have focused my comments on whether it is a forbidden/disrespectful/wet-blanket act?, within the context of the logic of free speech/expression.

I am not addressing the underlying racial animus question, in regard to which the take-a-knee expression started (one argument at a time). I am merely pointing out that free expression – particularly when it is non-intrusive, as it is here - should not be curtailed by vacuous and faux attempts at justification. And, logically, to offer nothing but clucking is veritably to admit the principle for which take-a-knee was invoked. Face it...if you've got no reason to oppose, what are you saying by opposition?

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Syl wrote:This thread and 99% of the posts in it are really interesting.

My thoughts about the BLM movement is they often seem to bully people into standing with them...and if people won't be bullied they are then themselves discriminated against.

I am sure, in the UK anyway, a very small percent of people are racist, and being told we are racist because we are not bobbing up and down on one knee, or forever droning on about how badly the black man has been treated through the decades doesn't make us so either.

If we see racism, we can call it out there and then, just as many have done re the way the young black England players have been treated.


Freedom of actions and speech works both ways.

The main reason why BLM will get neither support nor encouragement from me is that some of their leading activists, including Sasha Johnson (shot and badly wounded in London in May in what appears to be a drug gang related incident) and members of her cohort have frequently been photographed while out “campaigning” for the cause while wearing black paramilitary uniforms complete with berets, combat trousers, boots, ant-stab vests and the obligatory sunglasses even at night…all clearly designed to appear as intimidatory and threatening as possible.

Personally, I need no instruction in the evils of racism from people like that.

Really?  The "main reason" for your opposition is the clothes they wear??    

Remind me to wear a pink pinafore to the next campaign session.

Will something like this suit??

If you're worried about people's lives, you don't mourn the death of an authoritarian tyrant that took so many.

BLM is Marxist trash using the death of black people to further their ideology..

https://news.yahoo.com/black-lives-matter-blames-us-075904206.html


And BLM is still at it. They are blaming the current shithole conditions in Cuba on the US, instead of the same shitty system that has failed everywhere it has been tried.

This is what Marxists do. Blame capitalist places for the failure of their shitty system.

Cuba is basically a giant plantation where millions including black people are imprisoned and the stupid fucks at BLM, in conjunction with progressive white idiot enablers are supporting that plantation.

Syl wrote:Will something like this suit??

Perhaps. Run it by Fred to see for sure.

I don't think I can look so pretty as this boy, but if I comb my hair and shave my armpits...

The England team was the youngest team in the Euros.

We did very, very, well.

England should be enormously proud of its squad -- the racial abuse directed toward the players who missed penalties was disgusting. Thankfully that was just a relatively small group of miscreants; the day after the match, every other customer I spoke to in the shop was talking about how shameful the abuse was, and I live in one of the whiter towns in England.

With such a young team, you have to think they've a very bright future ahead, and I'm looking forward to seeing them in the World Cup. Italy played dirty and to me, that makes England the true winner of the Euros.

But where is this racist abuse???


All there is, is a load of media bullshit about the being a huge tirade of racist abuse... But no actual evidence of any of it!!!


For example... The rashford mural was wall to wall media telling us how it was painted with terrible racist abuse... Only for 3 days later it was quietly reported that it wasn't racist abuse at all!!!

Original Quill wrote:

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

The main reason why BLM will get neither support nor encouragement from me is that some of their leading activists, including Sasha Johnson (shot and badly wounded in London in May in what appears to be a drug gang related incident) and members of her cohort have frequently been photographed while out “campaigning” for the cause while wearing black paramilitary uniforms complete with berets, combat trousers, boots, ant-stab vests and the obligatory sunglasses even at night…all clearly designed to appear as intimidatory and threatening as possible.

Personally, I need no instruction in the evils of racism from people like that.

Really?  The "main reason" for your opposition is the clothes they wear??    

Remind me to wear a pink pinafore    to the next campaign session.

If you feel the need to wear a pink pinafore, dear boy, be my guest. Whatever floats your boat.

If you wish to dress up in the kit of a paramilitary demonstrating readiness for combat, do that too.

You should be aware, however, that you would be far less likely to get your ass shot off by a trigger happy cop in either the US or the U.K. if you were wearing a pink pinny, and I really don’t think our far Right knuckle draggers would bother too much to take on a feller in a pink pinny if there was a scary black clad opponent available for a bit of a rumble.

Ben Reilly wrote:England should be enormously proud of its squad -- the racial abuse directed toward the players who missed penalties was disgusting. Thankfully that was just a relatively small group of miscreants; the day after the match, every other customer I spoke to in the shop was talking about how shameful the abuse was, and I live in one of the whiter towns in England.

With such a young team, you have to think they've a very bright future ahead, and I'm looking forward to seeing them in the World Cup. Italy played dirty and to me, that makes England the true winner of the Euros.

Twitter and Facebook were awfully busy removing racist posts directed toward the black players.

Ben Reilly wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:England should be enormously proud of its squad -- the racial abuse directed toward the players who missed penalties was disgusting. Thankfully that was just a relatively small group of miscreants; the day after the match, every other customer I spoke to in the shop was talking about how shameful the abuse was, and I live in one of the whiter towns in England.

With such a young team, you have to think they've a very bright future ahead, and I'm looking forward to seeing them in the World Cup. Italy played dirty and to me, that makes England the true winner of the Euros.

Twitter and Facebook were awfully busy removing racist posts directed toward the black players.

How busy?

I follow Vox and Huffpost. They often start a headline with something like "Twitter says".

Then they post 5 tweets


Social media tends to magnify things. .00001% of the public saying nasty shit isn't a big deal, unless someone wants it to be or profits from it..

I only saw the headlines that there was racial abuse. I never saw any, personally.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Really?  The "main reason" for your opposition is the clothes they wear??    

Remind me to wear a pink pinafore    to the next campaign session.

If you feel the need to wear a pink pinafore, dear boy, be my guest. Whatever floats your boat.

If you wish to dress up in the kit of a paramilitary demonstrating readiness for combat, do that too.

You should be aware, however, that you would be far less likely to get your ass shot off by a trigger happy cop in either the US or the U.K. if you were wearing a pink pinny,  and I really don’t think our far Right knuckle draggers would bother too much to take on a feller in a pink pinny if there was a scary black clad opponent available for a bit of a rumble.

Sorry Fred you conflate to separate issues and use poor guilt by association arguments

Do black lives mater?

Of course they do and even more after the poor racist behaviour of England fans

This is 2021

Not the 1930's

You do not have to support the Marxist organisation called black lives ,matters, but you can support the concept of why black lives matters when as seen they continually suffer racist abuse

You and I will never go through life suffering this kind of abuse

The fact is there is still a mass of racism and unless people stand up and speak out against this, then sorry mate, you are making petty and poor excuses here

Fine,  condemn organisations like Black lives matters as nothing more than political

However you should also support and stand behind black people and their lives mattering in life, when you will never face the discrimination they do in daily life

Getting down on one knee will do little to change racists minds. Blaming whole peoples and nations and labelling them racist will do little to erase racism, it will only divide people more.
What we need to do is what so many people have done and stand up and be counted and be seen to support anyone who gets racist abuse, that is all stand in solidarity with like minded people whatever hue you happen to be and either change the racists outlook or marginalise them so much they shut up and go away and die off..

Vintage wrote:Getting down on one knee will do little to change racists minds. Blaming whole peoples and nations and labelling them racist will do little to erase racism, it will only divide people more.
What we need to do is what so many people have done and stand up and be counted and be seen to support anyone who gets racist abuse, that is all stand in solidarity with like minded people whatever hue you happen to be and either change the racists outlook or marginalise them so much they shut up and go away and die off..

What if everyone decided to get down on one knee and decide they have had enough of racism and believe this is a good way to show solidarity Vintage?

Nobody is blaming whole peoples here, they are blaming racists here

So what happens if you and I say enough is enough and we also get down on one knee in solidarity?

Is that not standing up and being counted here?

No its not, its just a gesture..
Apparently we are being labelled as a racist country though.

Vintage wrote:No its not, its just a gesture..
Apparently we are being labelled as a racist country though.

I saw Saka petrified to take a penalty

He is 19 and miseed

If anything England progress united the country

Do not allow some racist idiots to regress that coming together of a nation for all peoples no matter their ethnicity

The point is again, its more than a gesture,. its saying no to any form of racism

England was united as a nation through football and if we had won, there would not have  been as much of the racist hate we saw after defeat

I take positives from the fact England's run united a nation even if only for a small time

It shows we can unite together as a people

It took racists to spoil that

The point is though, if England had won and these three young men had scored penalties they would have been heroes, I doubt as many idiots would have crawled out of the wood work to abuse them. I heard that a lot of the Twitter stuff etc was not even based in the UK don't know if that's true.

There is a lot talk about all white people having to apologise to black people and give compensation - if that's not expressing all white people are accountable and therefore racists I don't know what is. All peoples unless they were particularly isolated have experienced slavery, racism and abuse, how far back is the cut off point for accountability. We have reports about the lack of diversity in all sorts of jobs and situations considering the ratio of whites to other ethnicities is that really suprising. As for people having white names being more selected for interviews maybe people should not be named on a job application, just their qualifications.
I just don't think pointing fingers at people whose ancestors lived in abject poverty with little or no rights or power themselves should be being judged for something that happened many years previously. Concentrate on today's issue and educate if you keep blaming someone and hope the situation will go your way I think you'll find people will push back, just like seems to be happening since the BLM has come to the UK.

Didn't mean to turn this into a thread about racism. I don't think many people, black people in particular, hold the white people of today responsible for slavery and inequality.

Ben Reilly wrote:Didn't mean to turn this into a thread about racism. I don't think many people, black people in particular, hold the white people of today responsible for slavery and inequality.

One would hope not, otherwise they are idiots. I’ve never met one black person like that, and I know, and speak to many black people.

Ben Reilly wrote:Didn't mean to turn this into a thread about racism. I don't think many people, black people in particular, hold the white people of today responsible for slavery and inequality.

Really?

What do you think most folks consider to be the cause of systemic racism that continues to have negative impacts on marginalized groups especially black people?

Assuming you believe the above to be true.