Compulsary covid jabs for care workers...or face the sack.

First topic message reminder :

Good, and it's about time.


"Covid vaccinations are to become mandatory for care home staff under plans to be announced by ministers, as they consider extending the move to all NHS staff.

The controversial measure sets up a likely battle with staff in both services and could lead to the government being sued under European human rights law or equalities legislation for breaching the freedom of people who work in caring roles to decide what they put into their bodies.

The Guardian understands that ministers will confirm they are pushing ahead with compulsory vaccination for most of the 1.5 million people working in social care in England, despite employer and staff organisations in the sector warning that it could backfire if workers quit rather than get immunised. Under the plans those working with adults will have 16 weeks to get vaccinated or face losing their jobs.

The government is also keen to make it mandatory for the 1.38 million people who are directly employed by the NHS in England to get vaccinated against Covid-19 and winter flu – proposals that have already been criticised by groups representing doctors, nurses and other staff.






https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/15/covid-jabs-to-become-mandatory-for-care-home-staff-in-england

"...Significant proportions of people admitted to hospital, or dying from covid-19 in England are vaccinated - The BMJ
5 - 7 minutes

More vaccinated people are dying of the delta variant of covid than unvaccinated people, according to a recent report from Public Health England. The report shows that 489 of 742 people (65.9%) who died of the delta variant within 28 days of a positive covid test between 1 February 2021 and 2 August 2021, had received at least one dose of the vaccine. 54.1% (402 of 742) had received both doses.



https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/25/significant-proportions-of-people-admitted-to-hospital-or-dying-from-covid-19-in-england-are-vaccinated-this-doesnt-mean-the-vaccines-dont-work/



Or maybe too many are still being listed as dying from covid rather than just dying from a multitude of other reasons but who happen to have also tested positive for covid' in the 28 days before their demise...?

Quill won't let the truth get in the way of his bullshit...

gelico wrote:US COVID-19 Vaccines Proven to Cause More Harm than Good Based on
Pivotal Clinical Trial Data Analyzed Using the Proper Scientific Endpoint,
“All Cause Severe Morbidity”


https://www.scivisionpub.com/pdfs/us-covid19-vaccines-proven-to-cause-more-harm-than-good-based-on-pivotal-clinical-trial-data-analyzed-using-the-proper-scientific--1811.pdf

''Based on this data it is all but a certainty that mass COVID-19 immunization is hurting the health of the population in general. Scientific principles dictate that the mass immunization with COVID-19 vaccines must be halted immediately because we face a looming vaccine induced public health catastrophe''.

The author of that garbage is J Bart Classen, a well know anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist.

Probably why his findings are in an unknown online publication instead of a respected medical journal.

Here's another of his theories...

"Classen believes the conspiracy theory that COVID-19 is a bioweapon that was initially spread clandestinely and a new one on me, namely that the 2019 epidemic of E-vaping acute lung injury was caused in part by COVID-19."


https://respectfulinsolence.com/2021/03/01/covid-19-vaccines-prion-disease-and-alzheimers-another-old-antivax-lie-is-new-again/

gelico wrote:

Syl wrote:Tommy was off colour for a couple of days 18 months ago, he is convinced he had Covid even though it was never confirmed.

Even if it was, his immune system may not prevent him from catching and spreading it again.


Not according to every immunologist professional out there, but what do they know eh?  silly buggers!

Millions of lives have been saved thanks to the vaccine...if a booster is needed, so what?

utter BS, sy, no offence. the first vaccine was never needed, much less any booster

There is endless proof out there that catching Covid is far more deadly to millions (over four and a half million so far) than the vaccine, which has affected a minute amount of people.

There is endless propaganda out there that catching Covid is far more deadly to millions (over four and a half million so far) than the vaccine, which has affected a minute amount of people.



I corrected your last sentence for you

you're welcome

Previously (it could have been in this thread or a different one, I will find them if you don't remember) you posted several links claiming them to be true.
I pointed out thet they all came from conspiracy theorist sites. All my BS as you call it is factual...sorry Gels, you have been taken in.

Tommy Monk wrote:


"...Significant proportions of people admitted to hospital, or dying from covid-19 in England are vaccinated - The BMJ
5 - 7 minutes

More vaccinated people are dying of the delta variant of covid than unvaccinated people, according to a recent report from Public Health England. The report shows that 489 of 742 people (65.9%) who died of the delta variant within 28 days of a positive covid test between 1 February 2021 and 2 August 2021, had received at least one dose of the vaccine. 54.1% (402 of 742) had received both doses.



https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/25/significant-proportions-of-people-admitted-to-hospital-or-dying-from-covid-19-in-england-are-vaccinated-this-doesnt-mean-the-vaccines-dont-work/



Or maybe too many are still being listed as dying from covid rather than just dying from a multitude of other reasons but who happen to have also tested positive for covid' in the 28 days before their demise...?

Alternatively, read on for the factual account.

"Some people, including those pushing an anti-vaccine agenda online, have been misinterpreting figures showing that a large proportion of those dying with the Delta variant of coronavirus had been vaccinated.

One conspiracy site even claimed vaccinated people were dying at higher rates than those who had not received the jab, which is untrue.

This site and others use real figures in a misleading way, to arrive at a completely false conclusion - that the vaccine may not be working or even doing more harm than good."




https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57610998

I don't necessarily trust the BBC on this issue.

That's because they don't agree with your own viewpoint on this.
They are quoting 'Public Health England' figures. Don't you  trust them either?

Your link is false and misleading.

It's easy to cry 'conspiracy theory' and 'anti vaxxer' etc, to try to undermine arguments... But that doesn't necessarily make the arguments untrue.


The BBC and other media outlets as well as the govt, have been complicit in the exaggeration and hysteria around this covid virus, and I take everything they say now with a large pinch of salt.

The article I posted up also says "according to a recent report from Public Health England"...


Don't you trust them either...?

Tommy Monk wrote:

It's easy to cry 'conspiracy theory' and 'anti vaxxer' etc, to try to undermine arguments... But that doesn't necessarily make the arguments untrue.


The BBC and other media outlets as well as the govt, have been complicit in the exaggeration and hysteria around this covid virus, and I take everything they say now with a large pinch of salt.

You also have to take the facts and figures into account IF you want to come to a logical conclusion.

You just seem to have had a fixed opinion from the outset, and you have not moved since.
It wouldn't surprise me if you still thought Covid was less serious and less contagious than the flu.

Tommy Monk wrote:


The article I posted up also says "according to a recent report from Public Health England"...


Don't you trust them either...?

It does say that....but shows no proof.

If you can get the facts and figures from PHE that tally with your article I will take it more seriously.....you can't though, because it's false info.

Well, given that probably around 75% of the UK population have already had covid by now, and the official death figure is around 130,000 (although a large proportion of these are deaths from other causes, not from covid, but after having tested positive for covid), then you can do the maths on CFR (my calculation is between 0.1% - 0.2%).


In UK there have been around 800 covid listed deaths for under 60 year olds with no other pre existing health conditions, and around 50 if these were under 40 with no other pre existing health conditions.


So you need to put it in perspective.


However, a bad flu pandemic, of which we have seen several over the last 100 years or so, for example, the 1918 "Spanish flu' pandemic infected around 30% of the world's population (around 500 million) and killed around 3% of the world's population (around 50 million), so can clearly be much worse. Especially if you consider what the total might be by adding up all the yearly deaths over this period.

Tommy Monk wrote:


Well, given that probably around 75% of the UK population have already had covid by now, and the official death figure is around 130,000 (although a large proportion of these are deaths from other causes, not from covid, but after having tested positive for covid), then you can do the maths on CFR (my calculation is between 0.1% - 0.2%).


In UK there have been around 800 covid listed deaths for under 60 year olds with no other pre existing health conditions, and around 50 if these were under 40 with no other pre existing health conditions.


So you need to put it in perspective.


However, a bad flu pandemic, of which we have seen several over the last 100 years or so, for example, the 1918 "Spanish flu' pandemic infected around 30% of the world's population (around 500 million) and killed around 3% of the world's population (around 50 million), so can clearly be much worse. Especially if you consider what the total might be by adding up all the yearly deaths over this period.

Spanish flu which as you say killed so many millions, was sadly around BEFORE vaccinations, even before Penicillin was invented.
Covid19 has been compared to it. IF we had not found a vaccination for Covid19 we could be facing another 50 million global deaths.

Thankfully, in countries where the vaccination is available, the death numbers have been drastically reduced.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


The article I posted up also says "according to a recent report from Public Health England"...


Don't you trust them either...?

It does say that....but shows no proof.

Nor is there substantiation for tommy's allegation that 75% of the British population have had Covid. In fact that is dead wrong:

The Guardian wrote:One in five people in England may have had coronavirus, new modelling suggests, equivalent to 12.4 million people...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2021/jan/10/one-in-five-have-had-coronavirus-in-england-new-modelling-says

Though there are regions that show higher frequencies, overall that's 20%, not 75%.

This is what happens when you try to create your own database. You make all the same mistakes that amateurs make.

That is an old article and from the guardian which is generally considered to be full of shit anyway.


Plus the article Syl was referring to does have a link to source at PHE, but it appears that PHE have since removed this report... Probably because it gives the truth and there are powers at work who don't want the truth to be known...

Tommy Monk wrote:That is an old article and from the guardian which is generally considered to be full of shit anyway.


Plus the article Syl was referring to does have a link to source at PHE, but it appears that PHE have since removed this report... Probably because it gives the truth and there are powers at work who don't want the truth to be known...

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Well, given that probably around 75% of the UK population have already had covid by now, and the official death figure is around 130,000 (although a large proportion of these are deaths from other causes, not from covid, but after having tested positive for covid), then you can do the maths on CFR (my calculation is between 0.1% - 0.2%).


In UK there have been around 800 covid listed deaths for under 60 year olds with no other pre existing health conditions, and around 50 if these were under 40 with no other pre existing health conditions.


So you need to put it in perspective.


However, a bad flu pandemic, of which we have seen several over the last 100 years or so, for example, the 1918 "Spanish flu' pandemic infected around 30% of the world's population (around 500 million) and killed around 3% of the world's population (around 50 million), so can clearly be much worse. Especially if you consider what the total might be by adding up all the yearly deaths over this period.

Spanish flu which as you say killed so many millions, was sadly around BEFORE vaccinations, even before Penicillin was invented.
Covid19 has been compared to it. IF we had not found a vaccination for Covid19 we could be facing another 50 million global deaths.

Thankfully, in countries where the vaccination is available, the death numbers have been drastically reduced.

No, because most people have already had it by now... Don't forget it's been going around for 2 years now...


Spanish flu' was going around for only about a year.

Tommy Monk wrote:That is an old article and from the guardian which is generally considered to be full of shit anyway.

It's this year. Nonetheless, it hasn't been refuted, and nothing has been revealed to change the rate.

A later article puts the number even lower:

LSE wrote:The most discussed approach to measuring population prevalence are the antigen tests carried out daily by Public Health England. These show that (as of 7/05/20) 1,139,626 people had been tested and 206,715 had tested positive – an infection rate of 18.1%.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/covid19-self-reported-data/

If anything, the rate seems to be going down as more data is collected.

There were around 15 million UK cases in the 4 months up to the end of 2020.


I've already shown these figures on another thread a few months ago.

Tommy Monk wrote:There were around  15 million UK cases in the 4 months up to the end of 2020.

I've already shown these figures on another thread a few months ago.

20%...18%...seem pretty consistent over time. Your estimate of 75% seems pretty outlandish.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Syl wrote:

Spanish flu which as you say killed so many millions, was sadly around BEFORE vaccinations, even before Penicillin was invented.
Covid19 has been compared to it. IF we had not found a vaccination for Covid19 we could be facing another 50 million global deaths.

Thankfully, in countries where the vaccination is available, the death numbers have been drastically reduced.

No, because most people have already had it by now... Don't forget it's been going around for 2 years now...


Spanish flu' was going around for only about a year.

Spanish flu tailed off because after a year everyone either had immunity....or had died.

Herd immunity, something you have advocated from the off was practiced...simply because there was no vaccination programme 100 years ago,  so an estimated 50 million people died.

Nowadays, factor in global travel, covid mutations, world population increasing from 2 to 8 billion....without a vaccination programme  the outcome would have been far more deadly than 1918.

Thankfully you have not been in charge of Covid management.

But the flu of 1918 did such WITHOUT the global travel that we have now...


If global travel had been similar levels back then, then it would have been even worse...

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:There were around  15 million UK cases in the 4 months up to the end of 2020.

I've already shown these figures on another thread a few months ago.

20%...18%...seem pretty consistent over time. Your estimate of 75% seems pretty outlandish.

I have explained the likely covid infections on another thread a few months ago.


From 1st September 2020 until 1st January 2021 there was an average of confirmed daily tested cases of around 30,000 a day... That equals about 3.5 million confirmed tested cases... The govt says that the real number of daily cases was about 5 times this number because of asymptomatic and other untested cases... so 5 X 3.5million = 17.5 million cases during those 4 months alone...


Now, considering that this has been going round for 2 years, and there have been other periods of months where there have been relatively high confirmed case numbers, or similarly high hospitalisations and deaths when testing wasn't as comprehensive as during the 4 months I talked of, then the cumulative estimated total of actual cases will now be close to around 75% of UK population at around 50 million or maybe even more.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

20%...18%...seem pretty consistent over time.  Your estimate of 75% seems pretty outlandish.

I have explained the likely covid infections on another thread a few months ago.

From 1st September 2020 until 1st January 2021 there was an average of confirmed daily tested cases of around 30,000 a day... That equals about 3.5 million confirmed tested cases... The govt says that the real number of daily cases was about 5 times this number because of asymptomatic and other untested cases... so 5 X 3.5million = 17.5 million cases during those 4 months alone...

Now, considering that this has been going round for 2 years, and there have been other periods of months where there have been relatively high confirmed case numbers, or similarly high hospitalisations and deaths when testing wasn't as comprehensive as during the 4 months I talked of, then the cumulative estimated total of actual cases will now be close to around 75% of UK population at around 50 million or maybe even more.

My numbers have greater authority, because they are official government figures...not guesses.

No... I have taken the actual numbers of confirmed daily cases during that time, added them up and then multiplied them by the governments own statement that the actual number of daily cases will be around 5 times the tested confirmed daily number.


That is how I got the figure for the 4 months I highlighted.


I have already explained this in another thread a few months ago.

Here is a website that lists daily UK confirmed tested cases...


https://www.statista.com/statistics/1101947/coronavirus-cases-development-uk/


And it has been widely said that actual number of cases is likely to be around 5 times that of confirmed tested cases.


You can check the numbers for yourself.


Even in the last 2 months there has been an average daily tested cases of around 30,000... Which equates to 1.8 million confirmed tested cases total... And when multiplied by the govt figure that there is really 5 times this number because of asymptomatic and others untested then that is 9,000,000 over the last 2 months alone...


You cannot keep telling us that there are all these cases over the last 2 years and then deny the total number that this all adds up to...

There have been 207 Covid related deaths in the UK today.
The highest fatality figure since 9th March.

Covid passports are set to be introduced in Scotland for entry into nightclubs and some indoor and outdoor events.

Covid infections, hospital admissions, and deaths are expected to rise in the rest of the UK as kids return to school after the summer holidays.

Syl... How many more times do you have to be told that the so called 'covid death' figure is not the number who actually died FROM covid, but merely the number of people who died from a whole range of causes but who also coincidentally happened to have recently tested positive for covid...!!!???


Let's put this into perspective again... From a rational down to earth viewpoint... The daily confirmed cases number has been around 30,000 for the last 60 days... The govt say the actual number of real cases among the wider public is likely to be 5 times this... So around 150,000 a day... And most of the last few weeks there have been only around 50-100 daily deaths who recently tested positive for covid... That is less than 0.1% mortality rate if you think that they all died FROM covid... But when you consider that a substantial proportion of these 'covid deaths' were from causes OTHER THAN covid itself... Then the mortality rate is far less again than this less than 0.1% that I've already just shown...



And I find it a bit suspicious that this 'new high' number of so called covid deaths is announced on the same day that scotland is bringing in these totally unnecessary and draconian covid passport measures for club/pub goers .. which will no doubt also be tried to bring in to many other areas of social life in the very near future.

Given that numbers of daily cases have remained largely unchanged over last 2 months .. this one days higher alleged daily death rate is much more likely to be down to us just having a bank holiday weekend and delay in some figures being reported as they usually would have over last couple of days.

Tommy...I well understand that the number of Covid related deaths could include complications for other pre-existing illnesses people may have had.
Just as when the influenza deaths are recorded they also include deaths from illnesses that influenza triggered or made worse, bronchial infections, pneumonia etc.

What you don't seem to understand is without catching  the flu...or without catching  Covid, those deaths need not have happened.
Same when it's reported that Covid mostly kills the old and frail.
Old is anything from 65 or 70 and above.
Many of these 'old' would possibly have lived quite happily for many years, as would many of the 'vulnerable', that also get lumped into the same disposable category.

That's not true.


You could get hit by a bus and die from those injuries, bit if also test positive for covid then it goes on the covid death list.

Tom, you're playing the categories game. Categories, in nature, do not exist. In nature, things just happen...there are no square corners, or straight lines. Metaphorically, in nature things exist in blends, and two or more things will mix together.

But you want to say it’s either/or Covid. Whether one dies of Covid, when one simultaneously has heart disease, is irrelevant to nature because hard categories are irrelevant. To go from that to saying that Covid is non-existent - which is what you're trying to say when you say it's either/or, Covid or something else - is to ignore reality.

Covid exists...and just because in nature it exists in a blended state, metaphorically, and not in a solid state, is not to say it's either/or. It simply exists in a state you are not familiar with, so you become confused. Learn to deal with blended states and don’t be confused. It’s all right to say, he died of Covid, complicated by a weak heart.

I really don't think so, if the bus hitting you caused enough damage to kill you that would be the cause, you may get covid listed as secondary or third cause if it had contributed, like being too ill to safely cross the road or collapsing in the path of the bus. You can also get a cause of death which is not covid but will have the additional note of 'death within a covid atmosphere'. This is for information for statistics and people handling that person.

Vintage wrote:I really don't think so, if the bus hitting you caused enough damage to kill you that would be the cause, you may get covid listed as secondary or third cause if it had contributed, like being too ill to safely cross the road or collapsing in the path of the bus.

That's my point.

Vintage wrote:You can also get a cause of death which is not covid but will have the additional note of 'death within a covid atmosphere'. This is for information for statistics and people handling that person.

That's a clinical question...it depends on the facts.

Quill, the whole covid death figure is a categories game... I'm saying that a lot of those listed as covid deaths were not actually from covid but from other causes.


Let's put this into perspective again... From a rational down to earth viewpoint... The daily confirmed cases number has been around 30,000 for the last 60 days... The govt say the actual number of real cases among the wider public is likely to be 5 times this... So around 150,000 a day... And most of the last few weeks there have been only around 50-100 daily deaths who recently tested positive for covid... That is less than 0.1% mortality rate if you think that they all died FROM covid... But when you consider that a substantial proportion of these 'covid deaths' were from causes OTHER THAN covid itself... Then the mortality rate is far less again than this less than 0.1% that I've already just shown...


And if we consider the likely cumulative UK total of actual cases at say 50 million, compared to say 100,000 deaths... That is a mortality rate again of 0.2%...

So Tommy, basically you are saying that doctors are lying on a legal document, urged on by the government, not to mention registrars and that anyone involved in this are lying to support some government agenda?

Tommy Monk wrote:Quill, the whole covid death figure is a categories game... I'm saying that a lot of those listed as covid deaths were not actually from covid but from other causes.

I'm glad you realize you're in a semantical exercise, and not reality.

Tommy Monk wrote:


That's not true.


You could get hit by a bus and die from those injuries, bit if also test positive for covid then it goes on the covid death list.

I don't think that's true.
That person would be in A&E....not on a Covid ward.
The cause of death would be listed as the injury that caused the death.

I'm saying that if someone dies within 28 days of a positive covid test, then they are added to the covid death figure, regardless of whether they died FROM covid or died OF SOMETHING OTHER THAN covid.


So it stands to reason that many of those listed on the 'covid death' figure', did not actually die from covid at all.


This is not new news...

Tommy Monk wrote:


I'm saying that if someone dies within 28 days of a positive covid test, then they are added to the covid death figure, regardless of whether they died FROM covid or died OF SOMETHING OTHER THAN covid.


So it stands to reason that many of those listed on the 'covid death' figure', did not actually die from covid at all.


This is not new news...

But on the other end of the spectrum, you have countries like China, Iran, etc. that everybody knows haven't reported a fraction of their Covid deaths -- so don't you think it all balances out, when you look at it in terms of worldwide deaths?

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

...because they are science, and you believe in voodoo?  What BULLSHIT!





The vaccines work just fine and are not a threat to you or anyone.  (Not true, has killed lots of people and caused serious problems for others. Plus there may be long term negative effects that are not yet known.)


What they are finding is that vaccinated people can still carry the Delta virus. (Yes that is true, and I've already said this, and there is unanimous evidence for this )


 They don't get sick. (That is a complete lie. They can get really sick, hospitalised, and even die still.)

Quill... Please try reading..

"...The newly released data show people who once had a SARS-CoV-2 infection were much less likely than never-infected, vaccinated people to get Delta, develop symptoms from it, or become hospitalized with serious COVID-19..."

I am in the former group... However the latter group of 'not had covid before, but been double jabbed' people are more likely to catch the virus from someone other than me, and likely be more contagious to me and others, than I am to catch it elsewhere and be contagious to them and others... so I find their preachy self righteousness a little tiresome...

First, we don't know that you had it; you've never been tested.

Second, I've already said that's Bullshit.  The vaccinated people don't get the virus - their immune systems reject it - but they are carriers and can show positives when tested because of the presence of the virus in airways.  Researchers believe they can carry the virus in their breathing passages, and so they are transmitters.  You confuse the two.

Actually I’ve known of a at least three people, personally, who’ve been vaccinated and got covid with all the symptoms.
Don’t know where you get your info from.

eddie wrote:Actually I’ve known of a at least three people, personally, who’ve been vaccinated and got covid with all the symptoms.  

Do you have a link? That is important, because that would mean that the vaccines absolutely don't work. Absolute exceptions are important leads.

Double jabbed people can and do still get the virus, they can also be quite ill.
Some end up in hospital and there are some who have died from Covid. But the majority of people who are ill enough to go into hospital, and the majority of people who are now dying of Covid in the UK, are the people who are unvaccinated or people who have been vaccinated and are still a very risk of infection.

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:Actually I’ve known of a at least three people, personally, who’ve been vaccinated and got covid with all the symptoms.  

Do you have a link?  That is important, because that would mean that the vaccines absolutely don't work.  Absolute exceptions are important leads.

Unfortunately the people I know personally don’t have internet links attached to them.

eddie wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Do you have a link?  That is important, because that would mean that the vaccines absolutely don't work.  Absolute exceptions are important leads.

Unfortunately the people I know personally don’t have internet links attached to them.  

Too bad.  FDA would be interested in failures like that.

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Do you have a link?  That is important, because that would mean that the vaccines absolutely don't work.  Absolute exceptions are important leads.

Unfortunately the people I know personally don’t have internet links attached to them.  

Too bad.  FDA would be interested in failures like that.

Erm Quill? Do you ever actually speak to people in real life? I see about 150 people a day from the general public. I TALK TO PEOPLE EVERY DAY.
REALLY TALK.

And I could blow your mind with the things people think and say. But what’s the point when you can only rely on links and papers written by people you don’t even know?

eddie wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Too bad.  FDA would be interested in failures like that.

Erm Quill? Do you ever actually speak to people in real life? I see about 150 people a day from the general public. I TALK TO PEOPLE EVERY DAY.
REALLY TALK.

And I could blow your mind with the things people think and say. But what’s the point when you can only rely on links and papers written by people you don’t even know?

People talk, but they rarely say I saw a flying saucer or a bigfoot yesterday.

It's not commonplace for the vaccine to fail completely, without some intervening factors. It means all those studies were wrong.

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:Actually I’ve known of a at least three people, personally, who’ve been vaccinated and got covid with all the symptoms.  

Do you have a link?  That is important, because that would mean that the vaccines absolutely don't work.  Absolute exceptions are important leads.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/10/breakthrough-covid-cases-why-fully-vaccinated-people-can-get-covid.html


Do you know how to operate the fucking internet?

Do you live in a cave where the only information available to you is from the people on this forum?

Thank you.

Ben Reilly wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


I'm saying that if someone dies within 28 days of a positive covid test, then they are added to the covid death figure, regardless of whether they died FROM covid or died OF SOMETHING OTHER THAN covid.


So it stands to reason that many of those listed on the 'covid death' figure', did not actually die from covid at all.


This is not new news...

But on the other end of the spectrum, you have countries like China, Iran, etc. that everybody knows haven't reported a fraction of their Covid deaths -- so don't you think it all balances out, when you look at it in terms of worldwide deaths?

I'm talking about UK as we do shit loads more testing and a lot of our figures are more accurate.


Besides that... Have a look at this...




Reports of Indian Covid deaths were greatly exaggerated
Amrit Dhillon, Delhi
1 minute

Several Indians are locked in a bureaucratic nightmare after they were wrongly declared to have died of coronavirus by officials who then allegedly collected £2,000 in compensation.

The suspected scam has forced 23 people in the village of Borkhedi, in the central state of Madhya Pradesh, to prove that they have not died. Officials had falsely recorded their deaths allegedly to embezzle the 200,000 rupees (£2,000) per person that their families were entitled to as compensation.

A minister from the area has ordered the police to investigate the suspected racket, not only in Borkhedi but in neighbouring villages in case the scam was more widespread.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/reports-indian-covid-deaths-greatly-exaggerated-knng6d6zd