Should we all have to carry a Covid vaccination passport in the future?

by Syl Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

I would be all for it.

by Syl Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:09 pm

Surely the people who are refusing the vaccination and insisting herd immunity works efficiently if enough people have A ...already had the virus, and B ...been vaccinated, must realise there are flaws in their argument.

It would take TIME for herd immunity to work, in the meantime people are still dying.

The virus is mutating and no one is sure how long immunity works anyway, so further vaccinations will most probably be needed to keep the virus under control.

If anyone is content with knowing that refusing the vaccine is causing more deaths, or stupid enough not to care, if the outcome of that is them being excluded from certain things ...tough.

Their human right is not being withdrawn, they have in fact exercised their human right in refusing to be vaccinated.

by Syl Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:10 pm

To add, if some people cannot be vaccinated because of existing health matters they should obviously be excluded from the vaccination programme.

by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:04 pm

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

True. But flying on a plane or visiting a movie theatre, attending school
in person, visiting a swimming pool or even going to the shops aren’t human rights.

There already is a them vs us mentality. Been around since humans first walked.

I’m not so sold on herd immunity. It’s mutating so fast and since the science is so new, there’s no hard facts as if herd immunity works. We don’t have heard immunity with flu, polio and so forth. It’s going to take a few more years to figure this out.

I see it not as punishing people, but there comes a point when you have to think of the good of society as a whole, especially when it’s a deadly and/or debilitating disease.

Herd immunity works the same for vaccines or having a positive case. If the antibodies from a previous case don't protect you from a mutating virus, then neither will a vaccine.

And with maybe 30-40% of the population not wanting to get the vaccine, you're going to have a hard time enforcing some sort of vaccine requirement for travel.

If the vaccine works well (and I believe it does) the solution is simple. Get vaccinated (and maybe re-vaccinated) if you are concerned.

I'm not aware of any mandatory vaccines in the US, and I don't think there ever will be.

I agree... New cases are already at a low now here...

Also...

Covid: Thousands sign petition against vaccine passports

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56202975

by Original Quill Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:58 pm

Maddog wrote:And with maybe 30-40% of the population not wanting to get the vaccine, you're going to have a hard time enforcing some sort of vaccine requirement for travel.

Tommy Monk wrote:Covid: Thousands sign petition against vaccine passports

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56202975

So, they won't be able to travel. Should we all have to carry a Covid vaccination passport in the future? - Page 3 2190311264

It's self-enforcing. Without a vaccine, the receiving nation will put you right back on the plane, or train, or ship, and send you back from whence you came.

They don't give a sheit about your travel, or your rights, as you are not in a social contract (citizenship) with them. They don't need to extend compassion to one who won't reciprocate and extend compassion to them.

by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:13 pm

There will be plenty of countries who won't try to restrict the huge amount of money coming in through tourism by enforcing some vaccine passport thing... And that is where people will choose to go to...

by Guest Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:22 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:And with maybe 30-40% of the population not wanting to get the vaccine, you're going to have a hard time enforcing some sort of vaccine requirement for travel.

Tommy Monk wrote:Covid: Thousands sign petition against vaccine passports

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56202975

So, they won't be able to travel. It's self-enforcing. Without a vaccine, the receiving nation will put you right back on the plane, or train, or ship, and send you back from whence you came.

They don't give a sheit about your travel, or your rights, as you are not in a social contract (citizenship) with them. They don't need to extend compassion to one who won't reciprocate and extend compassion to them.

pretty much they are loads of country's you need a vaccination to visit https://www.who.int/ith/2016-ith-county-list.pdf .i counted 60 just from A to C alphabetical and this list is from 2016 I dont think you will get as far as a plane

by Andy Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:27 pm

The game changer will be after July, when all the adults who want the jab have been vaccinated, and there is a sudden, 4th spike in infections and deaths amongst the cretins, morons and anti vaxxers such as Tommy.
Lets hope so, if only to shut them up and prove them as idiots.
After that date it might prove more difficult to get a vaccine as all surplus wil lbe used as a 2nd dose or shipped off to 3rd world countries

by Maddog Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:33 pm

Korben wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

So, they won't be able to travel. It's self-enforcing. Without a vaccine, the receiving nation will put you right back on the plane, or train, or ship, and send you back from whence you came.

They don't give a sheit about your travel, or your rights, as you are not in a social contract (citizenship) with them. They don't need to extend compassion to one who won't reciprocate and extend compassion to them.
pretty much they are loads of country's you need a vaccination to visit https://www.who.int/ith/2016-ith-county-list.pdf .i counted 60 just from A to C alphabetical and this list is from 2016 I dont think you will get as far as a plane

I would imagine those vaccines are for things that 99% of Americans or Brits are vaccinated for. Or something 99% would get a shot for.

This vaccine may only have a 60 or 70% compliance rate.

It will be much different with that many people not being allowed to travel.

by Maddog Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:34 pm

Andy wrote:The game changer will be after July, when all the adults who want the jab have been vaccinated, and there is a sudden, 4th spike in infections and deaths amongst the cretins, morons and anti vaxxers such as Tommy.
Lets hope so, if only to shut them up and prove them as idiots.
After that date it might prove more difficult to get a vaccine as all surplus wil lbe used as a 2nd dose or shipped off to 3rd world countries

They won't run out of vaccines.

Rolling Eyes

by Maddog Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:43 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/27/covid-coronavirus-us-military-vaccine

Something tells me the soldiers refusing the vaccine will be allowed to travel to other countries.

Whether these other countries want them there will be debatable.

I imagine, that after some time, these vaccines can be "forced" upon folks. But currently, they have an emergency mandate and haven't gone through normal testing for other medications.

Theoretically, these vaccines haven't been proven safe. That's why our government anyway, has released the manufacturers from any liability.

by Maddog Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:22 pm

"Reluctance to be vaccinated for Covid-19 is now rife in the US military, with about a third of troops on active duty or in the national guard refusing to be administered the vaccine."

I'm posting this for Quill since he can't operate links.

by Original Quill Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:23 pm

Andy wrote:The game changer will be after July, when all the adults who want the jab have been vaccinated, and there is a sudden, 4th spike in infections and deaths amongst the cretins, morons and anti vaxxers such as Tommy.
Lets hope so, if only to shut them up and prove them as idiots.
After that date it might prove more difficult to get a vaccine as all surplus wil lbe used as a 2nd dose or shipped off to 3rd world countries

It's a curious phenomenon here, Andy, that Republicans and southern states have made a political issue about not heeding the call to vaccinate, wear masks, wash hands, social distancing, etc. Following Trump, they have attempted to deny the issue despite over 500,000 deaths in the US.

This creates a natural dividing line as to who will die, and who will live in the future. I'm glad I'm not on that side.

by Maddog Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:25 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Andy wrote:The game changer will be after July, when all the adults who want the jab have been vaccinated, and there is a sudden, 4th spike in infections and deaths amongst the cretins, morons and anti vaxxers such as Tommy.
Lets hope so, if only to shut them up and prove them as idiots.
After that date it might prove more difficult to get a vaccine as all surplus wil lbe used as a 2nd dose or shipped off to 3rd world countries

It's a curious phenomenon here, Andy, that Republicans and southern states have made a political issue about not heeding the call to vaccinate, wear masks, wash hands, social distancing, etc. Following Trump, they have attempted to deny the issue despite over 500,000 deaths in the US.

This creates a natural dividing line as to who will die, and who will live in the future. I'm glad I'm not on that side.

I'm glad I'm not in NY.

by Original Quill Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:26 pm

Maddog wrote:Whether these other countries want them there will be debatable.

That will be an issue, inevitably.

by Original Quill Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:28 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It's a curious phenomenon here, Andy, that Republicans and southern states have made a political issue about not heeding the call to vaccinate, wear masks, wash hands, social distancing, etc. Following Trump, they have attempted to deny the issue despite over 500,000 deaths in the US.

This creates a natural dividing line as to who will die, and who will live in the future. I'm glad I'm not on that side.

I'm glad I'm not in NY.

Me too. But NY is just a numbers game. In the south, they are flirting with mass death quite voluntarily.

by Maddog Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:35 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I'm glad I'm not in NY.

Me too. But NY is just a numbers game. In the south, they are flirting with mass death quite voluntarily.

We're good

.

by Original Quill Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:42 pm

I'm glad.

by Guest Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:17 pm

Original Quill wrote:

This creates a natural dividing line as to who will die, and who will live in the future. I'm glad I'm not on that side.

yes So many contenders for the Darwin Awards its stunning

by Syl Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:22 pm

Seems as if Brit's will be welcomed back into their favourite holiday hotspots this summer, as long as they have been vaccinated.

"MAJORCA and Ibiza are the latest holiday hotspots hoping to welcome back Brits with vaccine passports this summer.

The Balearic Islands are desperate to follow Portugal, Cyprus and Greece in pledging to reopen their borders to sun seekers with the jab."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/14253251/majorca-ibiza-vaccine-passports-portugal-greece/

by Tommy Monk Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:06 pm

Cyprus has said that a vaccination is not necessary... A negative test prior to traveling and on arrival will do.

by Syl Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:25 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Cyprus has said that a vaccination is not necessary... A negative test prior to traveling and on arrival will do.

"Cyprus will allow British tourists who have been fully vaccinated against Covid-19 into the country without restrictions from 1 May, a tourism minister has said.
...
Visitors would need to be inoculated with vaccines approved by the European Medicines Agency (EMA), he said, and the second dose of a vaccine should be administered at the latest seven days before travel. Authorities would still reserve the right to carry out random tests on arrivals, Perdios added."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/04/cyprus-will-allow-vaccinated-british-tourists-from-1-may

by Tommy Monk Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:29 pm

I saw a Cyprus minister on BBC news yesterday explaining that, yes, vaccinated without restrictions, but others can go if they show negative test result before travel and upon arrival.

by Syl Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:59 pm

Good, it makes sense.

"Hospital staff who refuse to have a Covid vaccine could be redeployed, NHS England has advised managers. The workers could be asked to move to a ‘less exposure-prone setting’, according to a document seen by the Health Service Journal (HSJ).
This would be a last option if the risk to themselves or others was found to be ‘very significant’, after taking into account their personal protective equipment (PPE) and training.
‘These sensitive conversations may require input from local trade union representatives and HR,’ the document says.
Earlier this month, NHS England called for managers to have one-to-one conversations with staff who refuse the vaccine before March 12.
An email seen by the HSJ called on NHS trusts to ‘redouble our efforts in keeping each and every one of our staff safe’.
The email from NHS England’s chief people officer Prerana Issar said: ‘As a result of your continued hard work we have seen an uptick in staff vaccination numbers, with nine out of (10) eligible staff now vaccinated.’ She added: ‘There are, however, a number of staff who have declined the first dose of the vaccine."

Read more:

https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/16/nhs-workers-who-refuse-covid-vaccine-could-be-redeployed-14251343/

by Syl Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:59 am

Now the idea is being tossed around that pub landlords may ask for vaccination proof before they serve you.
If it's left up to the landlord I doubt many will bother.
1...Half the staff that work in pubs and restaurants will be too young to get the vaccine for months.

2....If it deters people from visiting and spending landlords won't enforce it.

3.....People will pay for forged passports.

by Andy Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:36 pm

Why would anyone pay for a forged passport when they can get a free jab and free passport?.
Oh wait, there are a few bovine idiots, even here, who still deny Covid-19 is anything more than bad flu, who wont get vaccinated and who also deny man made climate change, such is their stupidity.

by Syl Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:10 pm

Andy wrote:Why would anyone pay for a forged passport when they can get a free jab and free passport?.
Oh wait, there are a few bovine idiots, even here, who still deny Covid-19 is anything more than bad flu, who wont get vaccinated and who also deny man made climate change, such is their stupidity.

I agree, unfortunately there are some idiots who, for whatever reason, are refusing to have the vaccine even when it's made available to them.

by Maddog Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:16 pm

I would hope that the most any country would do is require a negative test.

Herd immunity only requires a significant portion of the population to be infected once or vaccinated.

Not everyone.

by Original Quill Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:53 pm

Maddog wrote:I would hope that the most any country would do is require a negative test.

Herd immunity only requires a significant portion of the population to be infected once or vaccinated.

Not everyone.

That's stupid.

by Tommy Monk Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:59 pm

It's fact!

by Tommy Monk Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:04 pm

Syl wrote:Now the idea is being tossed around that pub landlords may ask for vaccination proof before they serve you.
If it's left up to the landlord I doubt many will bother.
1...Half the staff that work in pubs and restaurants will be too young to get the vaccine for months.

2....If it deters people from visiting and spending landlords won't enforce it.

3.....People will pay for forged passports.

This is a complete non starter.

Half the population have had at least one vaccine dose and the other half have already had the virus...

Case numbers are at a real low, hospital admissions and deaths are also at a real low.

Time to stop all the madness of restrictions and let those who want to, to carry on as normal...

If you don't want to go to pub or restaurant, cos you think it's not safe etc, then just don't go!

But don't stop those who are willing to go from going!!!

by Original Quill Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:It's fact!

No it's not. It's a judgment. Look up the difference, and then come back to the thread.

by Maddog Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:28 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:I would hope that the most any country would do is require a negative test.

Herd immunity only requires a significant portion of the population to be infected once or vaccinated.

Not everyone.

That's stupid.

Kudos for your brevity.

It's refreshing.

by Syl Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:30 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Syl wrote:Now the idea is being tossed around that pub landlords may ask for vaccination proof before they serve you.
If it's left up to the landlord I doubt many will bother.
1...Half the staff that work in pubs and restaurants will be too young to get the vaccine for months.

2....If it deters people from visiting and spending landlords won't enforce it.

3.....People will pay for forged passports.

This is a complete non starter.

Half the population have had at least one vaccine dose and the other half have already had the virus...

Case numbers are at a real low, hospital admissions and deaths are also at a real low.

Time to stop all the madness of restrictions and let those who want to, to carry on as normal...

If you don't want to go to pub or restaurant, cos you think it's not safe etc, then just don't go!

But don't stop those who are willing to go from going!!!

So going by your estimation 100% of the people in the UK are now immune? That's obviously not true Tommy.

But....even if it was, the half that have already had the virus STILL need the vaccination, and then it's thought that as immunity doesn't last longer than any given time (it's not been clarified yet) people will still need to get a Covid jab again some time in the future.

by Original Quill Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:39 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

That's stupid.

Kudos for your brevity.

It's refreshing.

It's essential for people who haven't learned to read.

by Tommy Monk Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:57 pm

Half the population have got some protection from their single dose of vaccine, and half the population have already had the virus... I'm not saying this is a straight 50/50 split of population, as many who have had the virus will be in the group who have now also had a vaccination...

We are doing a million tests a day and only finding that 0.5% if them are positive...

Hospital admissions are very low now as are deaths... And will continue to get lower in near future.

A combination of vaccination and real actual recovered cases = high level of immunity among population... = Herd immunity.

by Syl Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:15 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Half the population have got some protection from their single dose of vaccine, and half the population have already had the virus... I'm not saying this is a straight 50/50 split of population, as many who have had the virus will be in the group who have now also had a vaccination...

We are doing a million tests a day and only finding that 0.5% if them are positive...

Hospital admissions are very low now as are deaths... And will continue to get lower in near future.

A combination of vaccination and real actual recovered cases = high level of immunity among population... = Herd immunity.

Yes that is happening now, which is why the lockdown is being eased and why come June we should be back to near normal.

As long as a new variant doesn't come along things are looking good, at last.

Covid passports will still be required for travel (including Cyprus btw) so the people who refuse the vaccine won't have the same freedom as those that have had it.

by Tommy Monk Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:49 pm

Not true... Just a negative test will do for travel...

But if some countries don't want me there spending my money... I'll just go elsewhere and spend my money there...

by Syl Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:05 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Not true... Just a negative test will do for travel...

But if some countries don't want me there spending my money... I'll just go elsewhere and spend my money there...

Latest info from Cyprus, when they open up for travel in May, visitors need to show proof they have had 2 Covid vaccinations.

For countries that accept a negative test, the expense and repeated testing if you travel frequently is a lot more hassle than a quick jab.

by Original Quill Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:20 pm

The question isn't "Should we all have to carry a Covid vaccination passport in the future?"...

but, "...do we have a right to get one if we've had the vaccination?"

Given entry laws for most countries, a vaccination passport confers a benefit, not a burden. It’s like asking: Should we all have to keep £1-million if its given to us?

by Syl Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:03 pm

Original Quill wrote:The question isn't "Should we all have to carry a Covid vaccination passport in the future?"...

but, "...do we have a right to get one if we've had the vaccination?"

Given entry laws for most countries, a vaccination passport confers a benefit, not a burden. It’s like asking: Should we all have to keep £1-million if its given to us?

It seems the people who are refusing to have the vaccine think their rights are being compromised if the vaccination passport becomes necessary for certain jobs, travel, entrance to venues etc.

Poor lambs. Rolling Eyes

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:34 pm

I've had covid19 and it was just like having a bit of flu for a few days and then a bastard sore throat for a few more days...

I recovered to be completely fit and healthy as my body's immune system fought it off... And because of this, my immune system is already printed and ready to fight off any future contact from thi virus.

I don't need any vaccination and I don't want one either.

by Original Quill Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:34 pm

Syl wrote:It seems the people who are refusing to have the vaccine think their rights are being compromised if the vaccination passport becomes necessary for certain jobs, travel, entrance to venues etc.

If they're trying to gain entry into other nations, they are flat outta luck. They don't have any rights in other countries.

If employment requires entry to other countries, they should seek work elsewhere. Wink

by Maddog Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:47 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:The question isn't "Should we all have to carry a Covid vaccination passport in the future?"...

but, "...do we have a right to get one if we've had the vaccination?"

Given entry laws for most countries, a vaccination passport confers a benefit, not a burden. It’s like asking: Should we all have to keep £1-million if its given to us?

It seems the people who are refusing to have the vaccine think their rights are being compromised if the vaccination passport becomes necessary for certain jobs, travel, entrance to venues etc.

Poor lambs.

Governments have all sorts of ways to force people to do things eh?

by Syl Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:57 pm

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:

It seems the people who are refusing to have the vaccine think their rights are being compromised if the vaccination passport becomes necessary for certain jobs, travel, entrance to venues etc.

Poor lambs.

Governments have all sorts of ways to force people to do things eh?

From what I can tell, the UK government isn't making any decisions yet, it's too early.
But....if entry into certain places is to be excluding people who have refused the jab, that isn't down to the government.

by Syl Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:01 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

I've had covid19 and it was just like having a bit of flu for a few days and then a bastard sore throat for a few more days...

I recovered to be completely fit and healthy as my body's immune system fought it off... And because of this, my immune system is already printed and ready to fight off any future contact from thi virus.

I don't need any vaccination and I don't want one either.

If you don't want the vaccination you don't have to have it.

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:20 pm

Syl wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

I've had covid19 and it was just like having a bit of flu for a few days and then a bastard sore throat for a few more days...

I recovered to be completely fit and healthy as my body's immune system fought it off... And because of this, my immune system is already printed and ready to fight off any future contact from thi virus.

I don't need any vaccination and I don't want one either.

If you don't want the vaccination you don't have to have it.

That's right... And I shouldn't have any of my rights and freedoms restricted because of this...!

by Syl Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:35 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Syl wrote:

If you don't want the vaccination you don't have to have it.

That's right... And I shouldn't have any of my rights and freedoms restricted because of this...!

You have a choice, just as people do who may not want you on their premises because you refuse the vaccination, just as some places of employment won't want you working for them...or other countries won't want you visiting, they have the right to choose just as you do.

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:50 pm

That's discrimination and illegal.

Even the vaccines are not 100% effective, so everyone is still a potential risk... So let's ban everyone from everywhere...

by Syl Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:02 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

That's discrimination and illegal.

Even the vaccines are not 100% effective, so everyone is still a potential risk... So let's ban everyone from everywhere...

It is discrimination you are right, but in this case it's not a bad thing. It's not illegal though, and NO vaccine is 100% effective.

by Andy Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:04 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

That's discrimination and illegal.

Even the vaccines are not 100% effective, so everyone is still a potential risk... So let's ban everyone from everywhere...

You are an abject idiot.
Go check out the law,ffs.
Private citizens do NOT have right of entry into private premises.
You are allowed in by implied invitation from the owner or store/pub manager.
They can refuse entry for all sorts of reasons, and they are perfectly within their rights to turn away anyone they think may be detrimental to the shop or pub.
And that includes anyone that cannot prove are not carrying a pandemic virus.

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