MPs treachery over brexit

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

"...75% of constituencies that were won by the Conservatives in the 2017 general election voted to Leave, while around 61% of Labour constituencies voted to Leave..."

And it was made explicitly clear that leave meant leaving the single market, leaving the customs union, an end to free movement, leaving the CAP and the CFP, leaving the jurisdiction of the European courts, taking back control of our laws/rules/money/borders...!

86% of MPs were elected in 2017 on the manifesto promise to honour the result of the EU referendum... and to deliver the brexit described above!

And they all voted to enact article 50... which clearly states that there would be 2 years in which to try to come to an amicable arrangement with the EU... or... after 2 years, if this has not happened, we would leave (as described above) and just trade with the EU under WTO rules!!!

Time to leave on WTO rules!!!

by Tommy Monk Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:52 pm

Andy wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

How could we stay in the single market as well as ending free movement and ending the jurisdiction of the ECJ over us, as well as no longer having to adhere to EU rules...!?

The simple truth is that staying in the single market means that we have to have free movement as well as ECJ jurisdiction over us as well as having to carry on taking EU rules and laws!!!

You don't leave the EU by staying in the single market!!!

So if you really think that people voted leave to stay in the single market and carry on with free movement and carry on being ruled by the EU and the ECJ... then you are completely barmy!!!

EFTA, you thick turd. The clue is in what the intials stand for. EUROPEAN FREE TRADE ASSOCIATION. I know English isn't your strongest subject.

EFTA is not the EU, and is not the single market, you idiot!!!

So you just shouting out random acronyms/words/phrases... is just making yourself look like the real "thick turd"...!

And has nothing to do with my above post!!!

Idiot!!!

by Tommy Monk Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:00 pm

Except that free movement would still apply...

To participate in the EU's single market, Iceland, Liechtenstein, and Norway are parties to the Agreement on a European Economic Area (EEA)...

And...

EFTA member states' citizens enjoy freedom of movement in each other's territories in accordance with the EFTA convention.[48] EFTA nationals also enjoy freedom of movement in the European Union(EU). EFTA nationals and EU citizens are not only visa-exempt but are legally entitled to enter and reside in each other's countries. The Citizens’ Rights Directive[49] (also sometimes called the "Free Movement Directive") defines the right of free movement for citizens of the European Economic Area (EEA), which includes the three EFTA members Iceland, Norway and Liechtenstein plus the member states of the EU. Switzerland, which is a member of EFTA but not of the EEA, is not bound by the Directive but rather has a separate bilateral agreement on free movement with the EU.

As a result, de facto, a citizen of an EFTA country can live and work in all the other EFTA countries and in all the EU countries, and a citizen of an EU country can live and work in all the EFTA countries (but for voting and working in sensitive fields, such as government / police / military, citizenship is often required, and non-citizens may not have the same rights to welfare and unemployment benefits as citizens)

by nicko Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:13 pm

Never mind all the letters, there's only two that I like, that would apply to the EU, F.O.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:41 pm

Andy wrote:May wants her MP's to change their minds and have a 4th ballot. But the dullard refuses to let US change our minds. People will remember.
Like him or loathe him, Corbyn will win the next election, and the main reason, gormless, bigotted, unswerving Brexiteers.

I hope he doesn't! Labour have been no better, and Corbyn has done his bit to thwart Brexit. The one thing to come out of this is the realisation that the Government, including Parliament have shamed this country with all this messing about.

I don't blame TM though - she took on a difficult job and has remained calm about the whole thing.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:44 pm

Andy wrote:I wonder how many who voted out realised it could result in a return to the troubles in NI?

Only those who enjoy violence.

That would be the fault of the people who start getting violent. If it happens, I hope the Government will do things properly and not pander to the murdering bastards

by Vintage Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:11 pm

Why should it lead to a return of the troubles, if there is a return it'll be because the thugs and criminals are looking for any excuse to do so.

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:43 pm

Cabinet minister David Gauke warns Theresa May not to ‘ignore Parliament’ if MPs vote for softer Brexit

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/102918/cabinet-minister-david-gauke-warns-theresa-may-not-

Well... how about mps stop ignoring the democratic result of the referendum where we voted to leave the EU entirely!!!???

If we stay in a customs union then we are still unable to control our trade terms with other countries, we are still bound by EU rules and still under the say so of the ECJ!!!

And let's remember a bit about David Gauke...

Tory Minister David Gauke is on #Marr today and he co-authored a book calling for the NHS to be “denationalised”. That’s means sold off to Conservative party donors and huge American corporations...

Maybe this is why he is so in favour of the EU...?

Because EU rules force public sector to open up to parts of it being run by private companies...forced privatisation!!!

Why is it that so many remainers are against privatisation of public sector, when the EU rules force privatisation of the public sector...!!!???

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:26 pm

It couldn't have been made clearer before the referendum, that a vote to leave the EU meant leaving the single market...

And here's what Labours shadow trade secretary Barry Gardiner said about why leaving the EU meant leaving the single market and how it also meant leaving the customs union...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/24/leaving-eu-single-market-customs-union-brexit-britain-europe

And remoaners have the cheek to try to say that leave voters didn't know what we were voting for...!!!???

lol!

by Andy Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:42 pm

zzzzz. Yawn.

by Cass Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:02 pm

by Guest Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:12 pm

Cass wrote:

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:52 pm

And all we see above is yet more stupid nonsense from remoaners...!!!

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:35 pm

While I agree that parliament should have a meaningful vote on whether to accept the proposed EU deal or not...

This should only be on whether to accept the proposed deal, or not...!!!

And as the law states that we leave the EU after 2 years, either with or without a deal... and because the proposed deal has been rejected by parliament 3 times now... then we must now leave on WTO rules as is stipulated by law!!!

TIME TO GET ON WITH UPHOLDING THE RESULT OF THE REFERENDUM... AND UPHOLDING THE RULE OF LAW!!!

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:27 am

Just to make clear to the remoaners here...

The decision to leave the EU has been taken... the UK has declared it's intention to leave the EU under the law dictated by article 50 of the Lisbon treaty...

This means there shall be up to two years of negotiation in which to try to agree on tariff terms of trading for the future after we leave the EU...

If after two years that no agreement is reached on terms of trade for tariffs... then we leave the EU after this two year negotiating period and trade is then done as is set out by WTO trade rules... until such a time in the future when UK and EU agree to some other more mutually beneficial trade tariff arrangement...!!!

The decision to leave the EU has been made... and all there is left to debate is on what the future trading tariffs are going to be between the UK and the EU...!

The remoaners are desperately trying to pull the argument back into it being about staying in the EU, or staying in the single market or customs union which is the same as staying in the EU, or how it is about leaving without any deal is so catastrophic that we must stay in the EU... etc... lies... spin... waffle... bullshit...

When the truth of it really is...

We've voted to leave the EU... in its entirity...

The only thing left to decide... is... do we make a deal with the EU on trading tariffs moving forward... or... now that the 2 years of trying to do this is over, we must now implement the trade rules that are set out by the WTO...!!!

There is nothing else to be decided!!!

THAT IS THE LAW!!!

by Eilzel Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:44 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

It couldn't have been made clearer before the referendum, that a vote to leave the EU meant leaving the single market...

And here's what Labours shadow trade secretary Barry Gardiner said about why leaving the EU meant leaving the single market and how it also meant leaving the customs union...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/24/leaving-eu-single-market-customs-union-brexit-britain-europe

And remoaners have the cheek to try to say that leave voters didn't know what we were voting for...!!!???

Brexiteers responded to this with 'project fear' and 'of course we can stay in the Single Market'.

Though lies are pretty popular among Brexiteers, so no surprises there.

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:52 am

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

It couldn't have been made clearer before the referendum, that a vote to leave the EU meant leaving the single market...

And here's what Labours shadow trade secretary Barry Gardiner said about why leaving the EU meant leaving the single market and how it also meant leaving the customs union...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/24/leaving-eu-single-market-customs-union-brexit-britain-europe

And remoaners have the cheek to try to say that leave voters didn't know what we were voting for...!!!???

Brexiteers responded to this with 'project fear' and 'of course we can stay in the Single Market'.

Though lies are pretty popular among Brexiteers, so no surprises there.

You are the liar Les...!!!

by Eilzel Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:18 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

It couldn't have been made clearer before the referendum, that a vote to leave the EU meant leaving the single market...

And here's what Labours shadow trade secretary Barry Gardiner said about why leaving the EU meant leaving the single market and how it also meant leaving the customs union...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/24/leaving-eu-single-market-customs-union-brexit-britain-europe

And remoaners have the cheek to try to say that leave voters didn't know what we were voting for...!!!???

Brexiteers responded to this with 'project fear' and 'of course we can stay in the Single Market'.

Though lies are pretty popular among Brexiteers, so no surprises there.

You are the liar Les...!!!

Disgusting campaign from the Leave campaign, continues into disgusting twisting even now. Parliament, who know Brexit is a dumb idea, are hamstrung by this knowledge and a slavish impulse to obey the narrow result of those lies. Biggest farce in UK democratic history.

by nicko Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:13 am

You back an horse in the National , it comes second, will you demand the race is run again ? You would be told to "fuck off" , correct ?

by Eilzel Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:15 am

nicko wrote:You back an horse in the National , it comes second, will you demand the race is run again ? You would be told to "fuck off" , correct ?

If it turned out the winner might have cheated, I would.

Of course, comparing a political issue to a horse race is pretty pointless in any case. The future of the country isn't decided by horses (and certainly shouldn't have been decided by millions of people with minimal knowledge of politics - and that includes both Remainers and Leavers).

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:25 am

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

You are the liar Les...!!!

Disgusting campaign from the Leave campaign, continues into disgusting twisting even now. Parliament, who know Brexit is a dumb idea, are hamstrung by this knowledge and a slavish impulse to obey the narrow result of those lies. Biggest farce in UK democratic history.

The facts are in my posts on this thread...!

You only think like you do because you believe the remoaner lies and spin, and because you don't know what you're talking about!!!

17.4 million people voted leave...1.3 million more people than voted to remain... that is a lot more votes!

So stop moaning now!!!

LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!!!

by Eilzel Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:43 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

You are the liar Les...!!!

Disgusting campaign from the Leave campaign, continues into disgusting twisting even now. Parliament, who know Brexit is a dumb idea, are hamstrung by this knowledge and a slavish impulse to obey the narrow result of those lies. Biggest farce in UK democratic history.

The facts are in my posts on this thread...!

You only think like you do because you believe the remoaner lies and spin, and because you don't know what you're talking about!!!

17.4 million people voted leave...1.3 million more people than voted to remain... that is a lot more votes!

So stop moaning now!!!

LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!!!

Yawn...

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:28 am

You don't like the truth, do you...!?

lol!

by Eilzel Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:48 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

You don't like the truth, do you...!?

Waffle...

by nicko Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:23 pm

LES, in answer to my little question, are you a Political expert,[like Andy] , yes or no , and why should you worry, you don't live here or support Britain in any way. Your taxable income goes to Thailand does it not ?

by Eilzel Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:08 pm

nicko wrote:LES, in answer to my little question, are you a Political expert,[like Andy] , yes or no , and why should you worry, you don't live here or support Britain in any way. Your taxable income goes to Thailand does it not ?

I made it absolutely clear in my answer that most people on both sides are not political experts.

As to why I should care, I've answered this multiple times, and it should be obvious. I'm also pretty sure I've answered it from you before too and for that reason I'm not explaining again.

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:24 pm

But the British people knew enough to know that we wanted to leave the EU and end free movement and take back control of our laws, borders, money...!!!

And that is all that matters!!!

by Eilzel Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:38 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

But the British people knew enough to know that we wanted to leave the EU and end free movement and take back control of our laws, borders, money...!!!

And that is all that matters!!!

Waffle...

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:08 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

But the British people knew enough to know that we wanted to leave the EU and end free movement and take back control of our laws, borders, money...!!!

And that is all that matters!!!

Waffle...

Nothing I have said on this thread is "waffle"...!

I speak the truth... it's a shame you prefer to believe/peddle lies...!

by nicko Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:35 pm

Les, what you said when you answered my question was long ago, I'v forgotten ! Tell me again.

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:51 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Just to make clear to the remoaners here...

The decision to leave the EU has been taken... the UK has declared it's intention to leave the EU under the law dictated by article 50 of the Lisbon treaty...

This means there shall be up to two years of negotiation in which to try to agree on tariff terms of trading for the future after we leave the EU...

If after two years that no agreement is reached on terms of trade for tariffs... then we leave the EU after this two year negotiating period and trade is then done as is set out by WTO trade rules... until such a time in the future when UK and EU agree to some other more mutually beneficial trade tariff arrangement...!!!

The decision to leave the EU has been made... and all there is left to debate is on what the future trading tariffs are going to be between the UK and the EU...!

The remoaners are desperately trying to pull the argument back into it being about staying in the EU, or staying in the single market or customs union which is the same as staying in the EU, or how it is about leaving without any deal is so catastrophic that we must stay in the EU... etc... lies... spin... waffle... bullshit...

When the truth of it really is...

We've voted to leave the EU... in its entirity...

The only thing left to decide... is... do we make a deal with the EU on trading tariffs moving forward... or... now that the 2 years of trying to do this is over, we must now implement the trade rules that are set out by the WTO...!!!

There is nothing else to be decided!!!

THAT IS THE LAW!!!

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:51 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

It couldn't have been made clearer before the referendum, that a vote to leave the EU meant leaving the single market...

And here's what Labours shadow trade secretary Barry Gardiner said about why leaving the EU meant leaving the single market and how it also meant leaving the customs union...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/24/leaving-eu-single-market-customs-union-brexit-britain-europe

And remoaners have the cheek to try to say that leave voters didn't know what we were voting for...!!!???

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:55 pm

Enough of the wall to wall remoaner waffle on the news and media...!!!

Look carefully at my above two posts... these are the facts!!!

You can clearly see that the current load of news and tv stuff is pure remoaner bullshit!!!

LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!!!

by Original Quill Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:04 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

Enough of the wall to wall remoaner waffle on the news and media...!!!

Look carefully at my above two posts... these are the facts!!!

You can clearly see that the current load of news and tv stuff is pure remoaner bullshit!!!

LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!!!

There will be consequences. What do you suggest?

by nicko Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:24 am

Reasons to leave the EU, Tariff costs hit poorer people hard,UK grocery costs could drop 20% ,80% of tariff revenue goes direct to the EU ,in the past few years tariffs has cost us £18 billion,enough to pay for 100,000 extra Nurses,EUare useless at trade deals,it has none with the US,China or India.Deals are often to benefit Germany and France.Without the UK the EU would be just 15% of World economy. There are many more advantages but my finger is tired now !

by Tommy Monk Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:35 am

nicko wrote:Reasons to leave the EU, Tariff costs hit poorer people hard,UK grocery costs could drop 20% ,80% of tariff revenue goes direct to the EU ,in the past few years tariffs has cost us £18 billion,enough to pay for 100,000 extra Nurses,EUare useless at trade deals,it has none with the US,China or India.Deals are often to benefit Germany and France.Without the UK the EU would be just 15% of World economy. There are many more advantages but my finger is tired now !

Excellent post nicko... but you are wasting your time trying to explain anything to the remoaners... they don't like truth but prefer lies and spin waffle instead...!

lol!

by nicko Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:46 pm

Your so right Tommy, Leavers won, why can't they except it and GET ON WITH IT !

by Tommy Monk Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:12 pm

We voted to leave the EU... and leave the EU is what must happen...!

All they are supposed to be trying to sort out... is what the future tariff terms between UK and EU are going to be...!!!

Is it going to be tariff terms that are mutually beneficial and mutually acceptable that are better than the terms set out by the WTO default position...!?

Or... if a future agreement on tariff terms cannot be agreed within the 2 years of negotiations after declaring article 50, and as is set out in the law of article 50... then we just adopt the default tariff structure that is already set out by the WTO, as our future tariff arrangement deal...!!!

It is all very simple and straightforward really...!!!

And it is blatantly obvious that the remoaners in parliament and in govt and also the EU itself, are trying to waffle the whole thing into a completely contrived shitstorm of fake arguments, for the sole reason of stopping the UK leaving the EU, and stopping the UK having democracy returned to the British people!!!

I honestly can't believe how stupid so many people are, to be dragged along into believing any of this pantomime soap opera nonsense of media spun brexit arguments over recent months...!!!

We voted to leave the EU... either get on with doing this under WTO trade tariff terms... or quickly come up with some trade tariff terms that are better than WTO terms...

But either way... leaving the EU must be leaving the EU in its entirety... as was voted for by the British people!!!

Not any stitch up "half in half out" bullshit... and no more false arguments and delays!!!

by Tommy Monk Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:19 am

Article 50 didn't state law that said we had 2 years to come up with some terrible half arsed withdrawal agreement... it said there was 2 years to decide some mutually agreeable future trade tariff terms... or after 2 years then we trade under WTO tariff terms...!!!

But leaving the EU in its entirety was always law to have happened regardless of whatever trade tariffs we ended up with...!

by Cass Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:25 am

The only good think Brexit has produced so far is a slew of excellent memes lol!

MPs treachery over brexit - Page 3 C9a99710

by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:54 am

nicko wrote:Reasons to leave the EU, Tariff costs hit poorer people hard,UK grocery costs could drop 20% ,80% of tariff revenue goes direct to the EU ,in the past few years tariffs has cost us £18 billion,enough to pay for 100,000 extra Nurses,EUare useless at trade deals,it has none with the US,China or India.Deals are often to benefit Germany and France.Without the UK the EU would be just 15% of World economy. There are many more advantages but my finger is tired now !

Are you fucking kidding me? Have you never heard of the Transatlantic Economic Council?

It's between the U.S. and the EU and it's only the largest trade deal in the entire WORLD.

by Cass Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:36 am

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
nicko wrote:Reasons to leave the EU, Tariff costs hit poorer people hard,UK grocery costs could drop 20% ,80% of tariff revenue goes direct to the EU ,in the past few years tariffs has cost us £18 billion,enough to pay for 100,000 extra Nurses,EUare useless at trade deals,it has none with the US,China or India.Deals are often to benefit Germany and France.Without the UK the EU would be just 15% of World economy. There are many more advantages but my finger is tired now !

Are you fucking kidding me? Have you never heard of the Transatlantic Economic Council?

It's between the U.S. and the EU and it's only the largest trade deal in the entire WORLD.

Shhhhhh. That’s top secret!

by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:48 am

Cass wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
nicko wrote:Reasons to leave the EU, Tariff costs hit poorer people hard,UK grocery costs could drop 20% ,80% of tariff revenue goes direct to the EU ,in the past few years tariffs has cost us £18 billion,enough to pay for 100,000 extra Nurses,EUare useless at trade deals,it has none with the US,China or India.Deals are often to benefit Germany and France.Without the UK the EU would be just 15% of World economy. There are many more advantages but my finger is tired now !

Are you fucking kidding me? Have you never heard of the Transatlantic Economic Council?

It's between the U.S. and the EU and it's only the largest trade deal in the entire WORLD.

Shhhhhh. That’s top secret!

I guess so -- or, should I say, some people will be awfully triggered by reality so best we not mention it ...

by Cass Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:56 am

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Cass wrote:

Shhhhhh. That’s top secret!

I guess so -- or, should I say, some people will be awfully triggered by reality so best we not mention it ...

Well you’ve gone and done it now bigmouth.

by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:10 am

Cass wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Cass wrote:

Shhhhhh. That’s top secret!

I guess so -- or, should I say, some people will be awfully triggered by reality so best we not mention it ...

Well you’ve gone and done it now bigmouth.

To paraphrase David Brent, I may have had a little bit to drink.

by nicko Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:31 am

Funny how Trump is waiting for us to leave so he can sign off trade deals with the UK exclusively, don't you know what your POTUS is doing ?

by nicko Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:36 am

Trump stops trade with the EU in July 2018 ,read up on TTIP before you post !

by Tommy Monk Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:54 am

And we didnt want to be part of TTIP anyway...!

It would have opened up our public services to start being privatised by American corporations, and also allowing them to sue our govt if we didn't let them bend us over and reem us out...!

by Tommy Monk Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:45 pm

Does anybody know how many of our mps voted remain in the referendum...?

I just heard it said in a house of lords debate, that it is about 500 of our mps who voted remain... and only about 150 who voted leave in 2016 referendum!!!

While two thirds of them represent constituencies that voted leave!!!

by Tommy Monk Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:45 pm

Lammy on QT... spent ages arguing that being in the EU was a good thing, with the smooth running of goods into the UK without border checks was great... and then he was complaining about how knife crime and youth gang violence in London was down to the supply of drugs, and he made a big point of arguing that there wasn't enough border force staff carrying out checks and searches on goods and other traffic coming into the country...!!!

So... he is clearly displaying "quantum thinking" in arguing in favour of freight flowing freely into the UK without stops and checks... while then arguing that there should be more stops and checks on freight coming into the UK...!!!???

WTF!!!???

by Tommy Monk Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:06 am

Just like how Labour politicians complain about privatisation of public services... but support staying in the EU when it is EU rules that force public services to open up to privatisation!!!

WTF!!!???

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