MPs treachery over brexit

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:45 pm

"...75% of constituencies that were won by the Conservatives in the 2017 general election voted to Leave, while around 61% of Labour constituencies voted to Leave..."

And it was made explicitly clear that leave meant leaving the single market, leaving the customs union, an end to free movement, leaving the CAP and the CFP, leaving the jurisdiction of the European courts, taking back control of our laws/rules/money/borders...!

86% of MPs were elected in 2017 on the manifesto promise to honour the result of the EU referendum... and to deliver the brexit described above!

And they all voted to enact article 50... which clearly states that there would be 2 years in which to try to come to an amicable arrangement with the EU... or... after 2 years, if this has not happened, we would leave (as described above) and just trade with the EU under WTO rules!!!

Time to leave on WTO rules!!!

by eddie Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:56 pm

by Victorismyhero Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:07 pm

nah the analogy would be that you agreed to go someplace else with him when he suggested dirty Dicks night club...then changed your mind but the place you left doesnt want you back, and your mate is adamant to wanting to go to dirty Dicks.

by Tommy Monk Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:43 pm

False analogy.

by eddie Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:26 pm

by Victorismyhero Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:30 pm

that last line should read

"laughing at you lot as you try to patch that 39 billion hole in your budget....."

by veya_victaous Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:58 am

eddie wrote:

I saw this, I was going to post it Razz

Tommy and victor have already started arguing and your still on the way to the kebab shop lol!

by Tommy Monk Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:31 am

The 40 year long theft of our democracy, and the continued refusal to restore it... is no laughing matter...!

by Guest Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:53 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiUFPjulTW8&feature=youtu.be

by Vintage Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:51 pm

The majority of mps have never had any intention of the UK leaving and are doing everything that can be done to stop it. The ever changing team have made no effort at all by the looks of things, they seem to be utterly incompetent , if this is the best a government team can do in negotiations with the EU, god help us. That said the EU are acting like spiteful bully boys, its not the kind of grown up negotiations I would expect from anyone in such a situation with the possible exception of the Mafia.

by Tommy Monk Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:13 pm

Best off leaving on WTO terms on March 29th...!

by HoratioTarr Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:23 pm

You know what's most disgusting and disturbing, leaving aside whether you're a remainer or not, is the way both sides of the Government are only concerned with petty squabbles and puerile pops at each other. None of then have the dignity or selfless integrity to put that aside and do what the majority voted for. If there's another referendum, I'll never vote again. Can you imagine if this island was in the midst of a real national disaster like WW2? We'd all be blown to fucking smithereens while this lot scream insults at each other and hee and haw in Parliament.

by Vintage Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:00 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:You know what's most disgusting and disturbing, leaving aside whether you're a remainer or not, is the way both sides of the Government are only concerned with petty squabbles and puerile pops at each other. None of then have the dignity or selfless integrity to put that aside and do what the majority voted for. If there's another referendum, I'll never vote again. Can you imagine if this island was in the midst of a real national disaster like WW2? We'd all be blown to fucking smithereens while this lot scream insults at each other and hee and haw in Parliament.

I can only agree with you their attitudes are disgusting. No one in government or the establishment expected anything but a fairly hefty remain vote, they have to a man or women forgotten what they are in parliament for. Its surely no surprise at the areas that voted to leave, people who have been left behind and forgotten by their representatives for years. Whether its all the UK government or them and the EU there's an awful lot of people that have no tangible benefit from being in the EU. If we are all in this together lets dole out the jobs so that all countries in the EU have a fair share so the people left behind by de industrialisation and globalisation can have a chance to earn a living and yes in their own country in the first instance. Come the next election we should all ensure those that have not complied with their voters wishes do not get elected again. The people are the power in this country it seems its time to show them who pays the piper.

by Tommy Monk Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:25 pm

The EU summit going on right now, has EU country leaders discussing whether to allow a short extension to brexit to May 7th... but the meeting has been going on for over an hour more than what it was supposed to do... which suggests that not all leaders are happy to agree to this extension... and some may even be putting in a veto to it... while it takes only one veto to reject it entirely, meaning no extension and we leave on 29th March as is the law!!!

I so hope that one of them veto any extension, and we leave on WTO terms on 29th March as is current law!!!

by eddie Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:48 pm

by Ben Reilly Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:10 pm

I think it would be much better for the UK if it could remain in the EEA, as Norway is. Access to that single market is a huge economic boon.

by Eilzel Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:42 pm

eddie wrote:

This is such a clearly BS meme, since Norway were never part of the EU in the first place, so the same cannot possibly apply.

by eddie Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:36 am

Erm that’s why they didn’t join?

by Eilzel Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:41 am

eddie wrote:Erm that’s why they didn’t join?

What? Why?

The list is supposed to say what 'would happen' if they didn't join.

How do all those follow 'not doing' something? Their situation didn't change. They weren't part of the EU, and they remained outside the EU. No economic disentanglements followed because they never existed. EU membership never contributed to their businesses.

It is completely different for a country that has been intertwined with the EU for 40 odd years.

by eddie Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:56 am

And they’ve done alright haven’t they? That’s my point.
The sky isn’t going to fall down, Les.

by Eilzel Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:02 am

eddie wrote: And they’ve done alright haven’t they? That’s my point.
The sky isn’t going to fall down, Les.

They've done alright, yes, as a small oil rich country. Very well indeed.

But again, I think you miss the main point, that their economy was never significantly tied to that of the EU. Ours IS.

And no the sky isn't going to fall, that's the same dismissive line you've used for three years to ignore anyone's concerns over Brexit. Never any argument against what Remainers say, only wishy-washy 'all change is good'.

My honest opinion is that Brexit was a stupid decision that should never have been given to the public. Though I hope to be proven wrong.

by eddie Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:13 am

Les, i know you adore me and also that I irritate you in this kind of debate, and that’s okay, but I want to explain myself.

I have no care about the hysteria over many things that go on in the media, especially politics. Know why? There are so many wild stories and scary stories and most of them never even see the light. I know this sounds simplistic to you but I have this divine faith (not religious, I hasten to add) that everything eventually works out okay.
And it does. Mostly.

If Brexit turns out to be the worst thing that ever happened then Britain will step up and sort it out. Sometimes the world’s leaders become too blasé and things just tick tock along and nothing ever changes or gets better. I love the idea of throwing a huge stone into a lake and creating waves. Waves get people excited and waves create change. We need change every now and then. We need to know what we can do and how we can make things better and we can’t do that until we try something else. It’s the same for humans so why not a whole country?

I don’t have links and graphs and articles by Professor Somebody...I have little time for all of that because there’s always an opposite to everything you read.
I prefer to trust and see.

Worry makes people stick to the same patterns.

I know this may not make any sense to you and I know you don’t think like me and that’s okay.

But I’m telling you...most of the shit that we worry about because of the political media hardly ever happens.

by Ben Reilly Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:23 am

Here's what I have to say to edd's comment, given that I'm not typically the type of person to go for changing things up just for the sake of change:

* You shouldn't let fear keep you from trying something different. When you do that, you are always going to pick the safe option, and you close yourself off to the possibility that things will improve.

* The old saying that smooth waters never created good sailors is true, I think. If you picked the comfortable option in every decision you ever had to make, you'd probably end up alone, overweight, unhealthy, etc. People have to be challenged in order to grow.

* We never learn anything new without experimenting. Thomas Edison would have never invented the light bulb if he'd been afraid of experimenting, as it took him about 1,000 attempts before he managed to to it.

* Lastly, I strongly believe that you have to accept that in a democracy, the people will sometimes make mistakes. You also have to believe that people will learn from mistakes -- and they generally do.

It's tough not to pay attention to the scary predictions that smart people have made about Brexit, but the fact is, nobody knows for sure what will happen until it happens.

by Eilzel Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:36 am

As I said, I hope if we leave it does work out.

But that is not realistic.

I agree change can be a very good thing.

But you know, I never considered shooting off my left foot just to find out if the potential difficulties (change) would make me stronger.

It remains a stupid decision, but I hope it works out.

In an ideal world I'd hope for a referendum that overturned Brexit and told the Nationalist dreamers to get to fuck. But that isn't likely to happen.

So I hope it works out Wink

by Eilzel Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:37 am

eddie wrote:Les, i know you adore me and also that I irritate you in this kind of debate, and that’s okay, but I want to explain myself.

I have no care about the hysteria over many things that go on in the media, especially politics. Know why? There are so many wild stories and scary stories and most of them never even see the light. I know this sounds simplistic to you but I have this divine faith (not religious, I hasten to add) that everything eventually works out okay.
And it does. Mostly.

If Brexit turns out to be the worst thing that ever happened then Britain will step up and sort it out. Sometimes the world’s leaders become too blasé and things just tick tock along and nothing ever changes or gets better. I love the idea of throwing a huge stone into a lake and creating waves. Waves get people excited and waves create change. We need change every now and then. We need to know what we can do and how we can make things better and we can’t do that until we try something else. It’s the same for humans so why not a whole country?

I don’t have links and graphs and articles by Professor Somebody...I have little time for all of that because there’s always an opposite to everything you read.
I prefer to trust and see.

Worry makes people stick to the same patterns.

I know this may not make any sense to you and I know you don’t think like me and that’s okay.

But I’m telling you...most of the shit that we worry about because of the political media hardly ever happens.

In fairness, you irritate me in a lot of debates and I still adore you Twisted Evil

by eddie Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:41 am

Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:Les, i know you adore me and also that I irritate you in this kind of debate, and that’s okay, but I want to explain myself.

I have no care about the hysteria over many things that go on in the media, especially politics. Know why? There are so many wild stories and scary stories and most of them never even see the light. I know this sounds simplistic to you but I have this divine faith (not religious, I hasten to add) that everything eventually works out okay.
And it does. Mostly.

If Brexit turns out to be the worst thing that ever happened then Britain will step up and sort it out. Sometimes the world’s leaders become too blasé and things just tick tock along and nothing ever changes or gets better. I love the idea of throwing a huge stone into a lake and creating waves. Waves get people excited and waves create change. We need change every now and then. We need to know what we can do and how we can make things better and we can’t do that until we try something else. It’s the same for humans so why not a whole country?

I don’t have links and graphs and articles by Professor Somebody...I have little time for all of that because there’s always an opposite to everything you read.
I prefer to trust and see.

Worry makes people stick to the same patterns.

I know this may not make any sense to you and I know you don’t think like me and that’s okay.

But I’m telling you...most of the shit that we worry about because of the political media hardly ever happens.

In fairness, you irritate me in a lot of debates and I still adore you

And that’s why I adore you. You accept me and I think, I hope, that there’s a part of you that understands a little of where I’m coming from.
I don’t think I’m from this planet. cyclops

by Ben Reilly Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:44 am

Eilzel wrote:As I said, I hope if we leave it does work out.

But that is not realistic.

I agree change can be a very good thing.

But you know, I never considered shooting off my left foot just to find out if the potential difficulties (change) would make me stronger.

It remains a stupid decision, but I hope it works out.

In an ideal world I'd hope for a referendum that overturned Brexit and told the Nationalist dreamers to get to fuck. But that isn't likely to happen.

So I hope it works out

I think the key to making it through this smoothly will be some good trade agreements for the UK. As Tommy likes to point out, trade with the EU makes up about 5 percent of the trade done by the UK.

As he doesn't like to point out, if the UK lost 5 percent of its workers, that would be about 1.5 million people out of a job.

by Eilzel Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:48 am

eddie wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:Les, i know you adore me and also that I irritate you in this kind of debate, and that’s okay, but I want to explain myself.

I have no care about the hysteria over many things that go on in the media, especially politics. Know why? There are so many wild stories and scary stories and most of them never even see the light. I know this sounds simplistic to you but I have this divine faith (not religious, I hasten to add) that everything eventually works out okay.
And it does. Mostly.

If Brexit turns out to be the worst thing that ever happened then Britain will step up and sort it out. Sometimes the world’s leaders become too blasé and things just tick tock along and nothing ever changes or gets better. I love the idea of throwing a huge stone into a lake and creating waves. Waves get people excited and waves create change. We need change every now and then. We need to know what we can do and how we can make things better and we can’t do that until we try something else. It’s the same for humans so why not a whole country?

I don’t have links and graphs and articles by Professor Somebody...I have little time for all of that because there’s always an opposite to everything you read.
I prefer to trust and see.

Worry makes people stick to the same patterns.

I know this may not make any sense to you and I know you don’t think like me and that’s okay.

But I’m telling you...most of the shit that we worry about because of the political media hardly ever happens.

In fairness, you irritate me in a lot of debates and I still adore you

And that’s why I adore you. You accept me and I think, I hope, that there’s a part of you that understands a little of where I’m coming from.
I don’t think I’m from this planet.

I understand where all Brexiteers are coming from (and they are all coming from different points). I just think those are bad/ill-thought positions in this regard.

by eddie Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:53 am

I’m not a brexiteer - whatever that is - I’m a “let’s change this shit up a bit, it’s gone stale”.

by Eilzel Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:56 am

eddie wrote:I’m not a brexiteer - whatever that is - I’m a “let’s change this shit up a bit, it’s gone stale”.

You can have change without shooting your leg off Wink

But we'll soon see how it all turns out Smile

by eddie Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:59 am

Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:I’m not a brexiteer - whatever that is - I’m a “let’s change this shit up a bit, it’s gone stale”.

You can have change without shooting your leg off

But we'll soon see how it all turns out

No. If I shoot my leg off it will cause me to change.
And my life won’t be worse or better but different.

by Eilzel Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:06 am

eddie wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:I’m not a brexiteer - whatever that is - I’m a “let’s change this shit up a bit, it’s gone stale”.

You can have change without shooting your leg off

But we'll soon see how it all turns out

No. If I shoot my leg off it will cause me to change.
And my life won’t be worse or better but different.

See, I like your optimism, though I'm confident if you asked most amputees, they'd prefer to have kept their limb Laughing

And anyway, in this case you asked millions of others to shoot their legs off too, AND asked them not to complain about it Razz

by eddie Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:10 am

No I am saying that it’s how you choose to look at something.
Different doesn’t mean bad.
Different doesn’t mean worse.

Optimism is all humans have and if everyone stayed optimistic about most things, they’d be happier and when you’re happy you don’t worry and when you don’t worry...everything is okay.

Perhaps we need optimistic politicians?

And that amputee who lost his leg may not have found his love of opera because he was busy playing football.
See?

by Eilzel Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:12 am

eddie wrote:No I am saying that it’s how you choose to look at something.
Different doesn’t mean bad.
Different doesn’t mean worse.

Optimism is all humans have and if everyone stayed optimistic about most things, they’d be happier and when you’re happy you don’t worry and when you don’t worry...everything is okay.

Perhaps we need optimistic politicians?

And what do you say to people (like me) who thought membership of the EU was doing good things for the UK and that the UK was doing well as a member?

What of the optimism we had as part of the EU?

What do you have to say to that?

by eddie Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:18 am

Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:No I am saying that it’s how you choose to look at something.
Different doesn’t mean bad.
Different doesn’t mean worse.

Optimism is all humans have and if everyone stayed optimistic about most things, they’d be happier and when you’re happy you don’t worry and when you don’t worry...everything is okay.

Perhaps we need optimistic politicians?

And what do you say to people (like me) who thought membership of the EU was doing good things for the UK and that the UK was doing well as a member?

What of the optimism we had as part of the EU?

What do you have to say to that?

That you think there’s only one way of doing things. That you have no trust in your politicians nor the fact that you should trust that change brings about change and that’s all. Just change. Change isn’t bad and it isn’t always good but we need it.

It also tells me that you are scared of change yet you moved across the world to be with that fabulous husband of yours when it could easily have turned to shit...
And if it does one day turn to shit? You still made the right decision, because look at what you have accomplished.

by Eilzel Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:23 am

eddie wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:No I am saying that it’s how you choose to look at something.
Different doesn’t mean bad.
Different doesn’t mean worse.

Optimism is all humans have and if everyone stayed optimistic about most things, they’d be happier and when you’re happy you don’t worry and when you don’t worry...everything is okay.

Perhaps we need optimistic politicians?

And what do you say to people (like me) who thought membership of the EU was doing good things for the UK and that the UK was doing well as a member?

What of the optimism we had as part of the EU?

What do you have to say to that?

That you think there’s only one way of doing things. That you have no trust in your politicians nor the fact that you should trust that change brings about change and that’s all. Just change. Change isn’t bad and it isn’t always good but we need it.

It also tells me that you are scared of change yet you moved across the world to be with that fabulous husband of yours when it could easily have turned to shit...
And if it does one day turn to shit? You still made the right decision, because look at what you have accomplished.

My life has been a life of frequent change, this is true, and I love change.

You say I'm scared of change yet contradict yourself in the next sentence Laughing

Clearly I'm not afraid of change, at all, and you asserting that I am is simply you trying (and failing) to 'understand' why I oppose Brexit.

But you're wrong, by your own statement you are wrong.

So I have a question:

I and others WERE optimistic about being in the EU.
Others were not.

Why were you so pessimistic about the EU?

by eddie Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:31 am

I wasn’t pessimistic.

by eddie Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:41 am

And your change was because it was emotional. You trust your emotions.

by Eilzel Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:45 am

eddie wrote:I wasn’t pessimistic.

But you voted for Brexit Rolling Eyes

by eddie Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:51 am

Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:I wasn’t pessimistic.

But you voted for Brexit

And if you assumed it was because I was pessimistic then you haven’t been listening to a word I said. I didn’t say I felt pessimistic.

“Change.” That was all I said.

Change for changes sake. It’s good for the soul.

by Eilzel Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:04 am

eddie wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:I wasn’t pessimistic.

But you voted for Brexit

And if you assumed it was because I was pessimistic then you haven’t been listening to a word I said. I didn’t say I felt pessimistic.

“Change.” That was all I said.

Change for changes sake. It’s good for the soul.

I think you aren't really into the 'politics' of it all.

Change for change's sake is a good concept when like sucks or gets boring.

You have asserted:

- I'm scared of change - while also pointing out a massive change I made (and that's just one, starting my own business I assure you was not an 'emotional' change, in fact moving to Thailand was pretty long thought out too).
- I'm pessimistic - even though I was clearly optimistic about the EU.

So who is not listening here?

Brexiteers voted based on the idea of 'freedom', due to lack of faith in the EU, because the economic situation wasn't working for them, some DID vote based on opposing immigration, to save money for the UK - but for 'change' for sake of it might be the most baseless of all reasons. Yet that is all you give.

You weren't pessimistic about the EU yet voted against it because you felt like it. Good for you.

Those of us who were very happy with Britain being the EU never asked for that, and it is almost condescending to keep telling us how 'pessimistic' we are, how we are 'scared'. Fuck that shit. The decision was stupid (we all make stupid decisions, in this case 17 million people made the same one). And if it was based on nothing but 'change is all right' then all the more so, because clearly you haven't really considered the political or economic aspects of it whatsoever.

by HoratioTarr Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:32 am

Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:

This is such a clearly BS meme, since Norway were never part of the EU in the first place, so the same cannot possibly apply.

No country was in the EU in the first place. I don't think any of them did particularly badly. Economies have ups and downs, no matter what.

by HoratioTarr Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:35 am

eddie wrote:Les, i know you adore me and also that I irritate you in this kind of debate, and that’s okay, but I want to explain myself.

I have no care about the hysteria over many things that go on in the media, especially politics. Know why? There are so many wild stories and scary stories and most of them never even see the light. I know this sounds simplistic to you but I have this divine faith (not religious, I hasten to add) that everything eventually works out okay.
And it does. Mostly.

If Brexit turns out to be the worst thing that ever happened then Britain will step up and sort it out. Sometimes the world’s leaders become too blasé and things just tick tock along and nothing ever changes or gets better. I love the idea of throwing a huge stone into a lake and creating waves. Waves get people excited and waves create change. We need change every now and then. We need to know what we can do and how we can make things better and we can’t do that until we try something else. It’s the same for humans so why not a whole country?

I don’t have links and graphs and articles by Professor Somebody...I have little time for all of that because there’s always an opposite to everything you read.
I prefer to trust and see.

Worry makes people stick to the same patterns.

I know this may not make any sense to you and I know you don’t think like me and that’s okay.

But I’m telling you...most of the shit that we worry about because of the political media hardly ever happens.

This country faced two major changes with two world wars, and it made it better bigger and stronger, despite the hardships endured. So yes to everything you've said.

by veya_victaous Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:23 am

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:

It's tough not to pay attention to the scary predictions that smart people have made about Brexit, but the fact is, nobody knows for sure what will happen until it happens.

I have the perfect metaphor in response to this

If I take a bucket of 2 dozen freshly laid eggs .. and toss it as high as I can in the air .. I may not know how it's going to land but I do know it is going to be messy MPs treachery over brexit 202592697

by Eilzel Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:26 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:

This is such a clearly BS meme, since Norway were never part of the EU in the first place, so the same cannot possibly apply.

No country was in the EU in the first place. I don't think any of them did particularly badly. Economies have ups and downs, no matter what.

I agree. But once you have an established economic union, which you have benefited from over 40 years, it becomes a risk to pull out and expect all to be honky dory.

Of course, we will leave, that is inevitable now (sadly). And I hope it works out.

But I'm a realist. Change for no reason when things are going well seems outrageously silly. If it works out somehow, great! If it doesn't, then maybe people will think twice before making inane voting choices - or maybe politicians will do the job WE gave THEM and do it, rather than pandering to Nationalist raving of the RW media to grab a few more votes Rolling Eyes

And no this is not me being pessimistic, or averse to change (two utterly BS ideas that reflect my life in no way whatsoever) it is me saying it how it is. We can all stick on rose tinted glasses and claim everyone who disagrees is a moaner, but the facts of how I feel about it.

I don't live there anyway, so it won't affect me so much, the pound is the lowest it's ever been to the Thai Baht, so I'm kind of chuffed with that with my upcoming trip home Laughing

by Eilzel Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:28 am

veya_victaous wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:

It's tough not to pay attention to the scary predictions that smart people have made about Brexit, but the fact is, nobody knows for sure what will happen until it happens.

I have the perfect metaphor in response to this

If I take a bucket of 2 dozen freshly laid eggs .. and toss it as high as I can in the air .. I may not know how it's going to land but I do know it is going to be messy

But the point you miss, veya, is that the eggs will be DIFFERENT when they land. And change is ALWAYS a good thing Twisted Evil

by veya_victaous Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:39 am

Eilzel wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:

It's tough not to pay attention to the scary predictions that smart people have made about Brexit, but the fact is, nobody knows for sure what will happen until it happens.

I have the perfect metaphor in response to this

If I take a bucket of 2 dozen freshly laid eggs .. and toss it as high as I can in the air .. I may not know how it's going to land but I do know it is going to be messy

But the point you miss, veya, is that the eggs will be DIFFERENT when they land. And change is ALWAYS a good thing

by Vintage Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:58 am

I don't think many people actually don't like the economic union, most leavers I know don't want to leave Europe, they don't want to be isolationist, they don't even remember the British Empire let alone want it back, they just want to be able to have the last say on what happens here. They want to cooperate on just about everything just not be politically tied to the EU organisation, there are people though that have not seen any advantages in their life from being in the EU, whether that is due to the EU or to the UK governments or a mixture there seems to be little in it for many. This area, post industrial, is dying on its feet and what do we get - jobs?, no, an EU grant for murals and an art work.

by veya_victaous Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:13 am

Vintage wrote:I don't think many people actually don't like the economic union, most leavers I know don't want to leave Europe, they don't want to be isolationist, they don't even remember the British Empire let alone want it back, they just want to be able to have the last say on what happens here. They want to cooperate on just about everything just not be politically tied to the EU organisation, there are people though that have not seen any advantages in their life from being in the EU, whether that is due to the EU or to the UK governments or a mixture there seems to be little in it for many. This area, post industrial, is dying on its feet and what do we get - jobs?, no, an EU grant for murals and an art work.

Well they must be channeling the days of the british empire to believe they have that choice Razz

It's because the World have moved on, Nations you used to dominate now have sharp teeth and are biting at your heels
this is why the EU was formed to Keep European Dominance/Relevance

You want to but set free and swim with the fishes fine .. but keep in mind you are swimming with fish that have adapted over 20 years to globalized world trade themselves, on their own, without the worlds largest economic union protecting them.
Nations Like Australia, Canada and Brazil are geared to consume you because You will be weak and this is how we survive swimming between the USA, China, Russia and to lesser extent India.
This is WTO rules .. it is not some nice sunny field like Tommy seems to believe.... it is bloody pool of economic savagery
This is reality .. it is going to be messy because You are so unprepared and you have totally telegraphed it to everyone with this extension nonsense ...
You wanted a Choice ... well we'll see what choices you have when the NHS is sold to China Neutral

I do not envy in anyway anyone ones economic future in the UK at the moment Neutral

and that is not meant as an insult

by JulesV Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:35 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Vintage wrote:I don't think many people actually don't like the economic union, most leavers I know don't want to leave Europe, they don't want to be isolationist, they don't even remember the British Empire let alone want it back, they just want to be able to have the last say on what happens here. They want to cooperate on just about everything just not be politically tied to the EU organisation, there are people though that have not seen any advantages in their life from being in the EU, whether that is due to the EU or to the UK governments or a mixture there seems to be little in it for many. This area, post industrial, is dying on its feet and what do we get - jobs?, no, an EU grant for murals and an art work.

Well they must be channeling the days of the british empire to believe they have that choice

It's because the World have moved on, Nations you used to dominate now have sharp teeth and are biting at your heels
this is why the EU was formed to Keep European Dominance/Relevance

You want to but set free and swim with the fishes fine .. but keep in mind you are swimming with fish that have adapted over 20 years to globalized world trade themselves, on their own, without the worlds largest economic union protecting them.
Nations Like Australia, Canada and Brazil are geared to consume you because You will be weak and this is how we survive swimming between the USA, China, Russia and to lesser extent India.
This is WTO rules .. it is not some nice sunny field like Tommy seems to believe.... it is bloody pool of economic savagery
This is reality .. it is going to be messy because You are so unprepared and you have totally telegraphed it to everyone with this extension nonsense ...
You wanted a Choice ... well we'll see what choices you have when the NHS is sold to China

I do not envy in anyway anyone ones economic future in the UK at the moment

and that is not meant as an insult

A greenie for your poetic eloquence & your passion, VV.
And you did it without insulting us - which is also a measure of how articulate one is.
No C or F words peppering your post.
The post scores highly on factual content too.

I used to enjoy talking about the pros & cons of Brexit but soon gave up, because of all the attendant hysteria.
I cannot see into the future but I've lived long enough on this earth to know that the things one wishes for, and pines for - sometimes come with a sharp sting in the tail. Wink

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