Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Yahoo News wrote:Sheriff: At Least 17 Dead In Florida High School Shooting; Ex-Student In Custody, ID’d  
Lisa de Moraes•February 14, 2018

UPDATED, 3:25 PM: Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said at least 17 people are dead and more than a dozen wounded in the school shooting in Parkland, FL. He said 12 bodies were found inside the school, two outside the building, another on a street near the school and two died at a hospital.

The suspect has been identified as Nikolas Cruz, 19, a former student at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School who was expelled for disciplinary reasons. He is in police custody. Israel said police have recovered an AR-15 assault rifle they believe was used in the attack and that the suspect had “multiple magazines.”

PREVIOUSLY, 2:13 PM: Campus building are not safe to be cleared until the SWAT team on site says it’s safe and clear, he added. Students are still in the school building; Israel instructed parents looking for their child to go to a nearby Marriott, to which students are being transported as they are evacuated.

A male suspect, about 18 years old is in custody; he was apprehended without incident off campus in a nearby community, Israel said. The shooting suspect was, at various times during the shooting, outside and inside the building. He is a former student at the school.

Fox News Channel’s Shep Smith reported the suspect, who “knew the lay of the land” at the campus, was taken to a local hospital and was  “being treated for we don’t know,” and will then be taken for processing.

TV news outlets abruptly dropped Washington-centric coverage Wednesday afternoon when a shooter attacked students and staff at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida on Wednesday afternoon. Quick word of at least 20 shot in the school or on the campus triggered TV news pundit talk of Columbine High School massacre of 1999 in which 12 students and one teacher were murdered, and another 24 injured, by two heavily armed students who then committed suicide.

Cable news networks showed helicopter footage of ambulances swarming the area, victims being tended to on sidewalks, and a SWAT team heading with weapons drawn toward the high school attended by about 3K students. Dozens of teens could be seen running or walking from the building, some with hands raised over their heads to signal they did not have a weapon.

More than an hour after first reports of the shooting, local sheriff tweeted to warning the gunman, who had shot into the school from outside the building, still was at large:

Follow @browardsheriff for latest info on the #stonemanshooting. Shooter still at large.

Multiple students interviewed on CNN said students began running out of the building after someone pulled a fire alarm in the school about 10 minutes before end of school day; one reported they were told over the school’s intercom system to evacuate the building. As they exited, shots were heard,  students told the network affiliate’s reporter.

One distraught mother marveled the network the city had just been named safest place to live in Florida.

White House said Failing Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon had been alerted:

From Deputy Press Secretary Lindsay Walters:

The President has been made aware of the school shooting in Florida. We are monitoring the situation. Our thoughts and prayers are with those affected.

Donald Trump Finally Breaks Silence, Scolds Press For Not Knowing He's "Totally Opposed To Domestic Violence"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tv-networks-jump-florida-high-210531879.html

Maddog wrote:"The only restrictions in regards to licenses or permits are typically for carrying a concealed gun. New Hampshire is a slight exception to this rule. Like other states with weak gun laws, New Hampshire does not require a permit or license to possess or purchase any sort of firearm. Registration is also not necessary. The slight alteration found in New Hampshire's gun laws is in regards to a concealed gun. A concealed handgun in the state does not require a permit, however, it will require a specific license in certain situations."


Yet the murder rate is virtually the same as Australia.    

Maddog wrote:"The only restrictions in regards to licenses or permits are typically for carrying a concealed gun. New Hampshire is a slight exception to this rule. Like other states with weak gun laws, New Hampshire does not require a permit or license to possess or purchase any sort of firearm. Registration is also not necessary. The slight alteration found in New Hampshire's gun laws is in regards to a concealed gun. A concealed handgun in the state does not require a permit, however, it will require a specific license in certain situations."


Yet the murder rate is virtually the same as Australia.    

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

You're certainly not free if you feel you need a gun.

Nobody needs a gun. Then again nobody needs a whiney little bitch, yet here you are.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Maddog wrote:"The only restrictions in regards to licenses or permits are typically for carrying a concealed gun. New Hampshire is a slight exception to this rule. Like other states with weak gun laws, New Hampshire does not require a permit or license to possess or purchase any sort of firearm. Registration is also not necessary. The slight alteration found in New Hampshire's gun laws is in regards to a concealed gun. A concealed handgun in the state does not require a permit, however, it will require a specific license in certain situations."


Yet the murder rate is virtually the same as Australia.    

The overall gun murder rate for the USA is over 400% higher than that in Australia;  (or, just over five times as high, for those who failed maths at school..).

To find similar rates to those in Australia, Maddog has had to resort to cherry_picking figures for one of America's smallest states, and maybe next some individual cities..

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Nobody needs a gun. Then again nobody needs a whiney little bitch, yet here you are.

"Whiney little bitch"?  Now we begin to see the array of southern values.  Bitch = woman, perhaps wife.  Whiney = says southern man just before he slaps his woman.  All while discussing guns.

So, here we have the collection of values: southern -> love guns -> hates whiney female -> woman abuser.

Original Quill wrote:Interesting sidelight: Parkland Fla. went overwhelmingly for Trump in the 2016 election.  Florida is one of the most gun friendly states in the US.  Remember Trayvon Martin lived (and died) in Florida.

Is God punishing Floridians?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Interesting sidelight: Parkland Fla. went overwhelmingly for Trump in the 2016 election.  Florida is one of the most gun friendly states in the US.  Remember Trayvon Martin lived (and died) in Florida.

Is God punishing Floridians?

Not as gun friendly as New Hampshire, and NH has the lowest murder rate in the country.  

Didge wrote:

Maddog wrote:


Not as gun friendly as New Hampshire, and NH has the lowest murder rate in the country.  

So relative poverty, plus easy access to guns, ensure high levels of death, correct?

So the combination, born both from selfish stupidity, ensures a high murder gun rate?

Maddog wrote:

Didge wrote:


So relative poverty, plus easy access to guns, ensure high levels of death, correct?

So the combination, born both from selfish stupidity, ensures a high murder gun rate?

Huh?

NH is not poor at all.

Didge wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Huh?

NH is not poor at all.

I see the point went over your head

I said a combination of relative poverty and access to guns, did I not?

Didge wrote:This proves my point Maddog, that you do not critically think, even more so at your own beliefs.

My first post argued in your favour, that it takes a combination of both in order for their to be high levels of gun deaths.

A Place like NH has not the first part of this combination.

What I was also trying to point out is selfishness needs are at the fore front of both.

Maddog wrote:

Didge wrote:This proves my point Maddog, that you do not critically think, even more so at your own beliefs.

My first post argued in your favour, that it takes a combination of both in order for their to be high levels of gun deaths.

A Place like NH has not the first part of this combination.

What I was also trying to point out is selfishness needs are at the fore front of both.

Or, your posts are not as clear as you think they they are.  

Maddog wrote:

Didge wrote:


I see the point went over your head

I said a combination of relative poverty and access to guns, did I not?

Poverty does have some bearing on crime. The poorer neighborhoods and areas typically have higher crime rates.

But access is more complicated. If you mean legal access, then the answer is no. But because poverty stricken areas often have illegal access, then I can see that being a factor.

However, if you look at the 10 states with the lowest murder rates in the US, it's a mixture of types of states with different levels of wealth and poverty.

 

Didge wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Or, your posts are not as clear as you think they they are.  

Okay, explain to me how it was not clear based on the first sentence mate?

I am all ears, based on wanting to understand if i can explain something better?

Plus, I did also have to explain.

Or was it, you can be like me and at times not read something properly, by then jumping the gun?

Its why part of me is very pro-restricting access to guns for anyone, but why I have not settled on any side, when I know other factors play a part.

Which means i critically look constantly at all my views on this.

Maddog wrote:

Didge wrote:


Okay, explain to me how it was not clear based on the first sentence mate?

I am all ears, based on wanting to understand if i can explain something better?

Plus, I did also have to explain.

Or was it, you can be like me and at times not read something properly, by then jumping the gun?

Its why part of me is very pro-restricting access to guns for anyone, but why I have not settled on any side, when I know other factors play a part.

Which means i critically look constantly at all my views on this.

I re-read it.

It made more sense after a few times.

In any event, access to guns can have more than one meaning. A 16 year old Chicago may have access to guns, but it's all illegal access.

Mexico bans almost all weapons, yet access is readily available there. That is down to poverty and corruption, which usually go hand in hand.

California has relative poverty I guess, with limited legal access, and less limited illegal access.  It doesn't have what one would call a low murder rate by US standards.  

Didge wrote:

Maddog wrote:

I re-read it.

It made more sense after a few times.

In any event, access to guns can have more than one meaning. A 16 year old Chicago may have access to guns, but it's all illegal access.

Mexico bans almost all weapons, yet access is readily available there. That is down to poverty and corruption, which usually go hand in hand.

California has relative poverty I guess, with limited legal access, and less limited illegal access.  It doesn't have what one would call a low murder rate by US standards.  

But this is not Mexico and also Mexico is a mare with gun crimes.

How on earth is that something to compare on as if to say: "Hey the illegal trade is there, and our gun homicides are less"

Is that not actually proving the problem with this combo.

You really are not seeing the bigger picture here are you mate.

I am actually arguing now more so on your side and you have still not grasped this yet..

As what is the first point to look to resolve?

You still need to combat the second, but what first here is needed?

Maddog wrote:

Didge wrote:


But this is not Mexico and also Mexico is a mare with gun crimes.

How on earth is that something to compare on as if to say: "Hey the illegal trade is there, and our gun homicides are less"

Is that not actually proving the problem with this combo.

You really are not seeing the bigger picture here are you mate.

I am actually arguing now more so on your side and you have still not grasped this yet..

As what is the first point to look to resolve?

You still need to combat the second, but what first here is needed?

Sorry, I'm at the office typing a report, while doing this.

I'll give your test more attention when I can concentrate better.

Tommy Monk wrote:'...Two-thirds of the more than 33,000 gun deaths that take place in the U.S. every year are suicides...'


'...Black Americans make up 14 percent of the U.S. population but are victims of more than half of all gun homicides...'



And I bet if you check the stats on gun homicides, the vast majority perpetrators are black too...!

Didge wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:'...Two-thirds of the more than 33,000 gun deaths that take place in the U.S. every year are suicides...'


'...Black Americans make up 14 percent of the U.S. population but are victims of more than half of all gun homicides...'



And I bet if you check the stats on gun homicides, the vast majority perpetrators are black too...!

No!





Which proves my point on relative poverty, does it not?

Didge wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:'...Two-thirds of the more than 33,000 gun deaths that take place in the U.S. every year are suicides...'


'...Black Americans make up 14 percent of the U.S. population but are victims of more than half of all gun homicides...'



And I bet if you check the stats on gun homicides, the vast majority perpetrators are black too...!

Which proves my point on relative poverty, does it not?

Tommy Monk wrote:

There are millions of poor white people in the US...


But it is mostly blacks who are the perpetrators of gun murders... and mostly blacks who are the victims...

Tommy Monk wrote:Gun deaths also vary dramatically by type. The vast majority (77 percent) of white gun deaths are suicides; less than one in five (19 percent) is a homicide. These figures are nearly opposite in the black population, where only 14 percent of gun deaths are suicides but 82 percent are homicides:

The firearm homicide rate among black men aged 20-29 is about 89 per 100,000.To put that fact in some international perspective, in Honduras—the country with the highest recorded homicide rate—there were 90.4 intentional murders per 100,000 people in 2012. That includes all means, not just firearm homicides.


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2015/12/15/guns-and-race-the-different-worlds-of-black-and-white-americans/

Ben Reilly wrote:I think you don't get to ask others to die for your right to own a gun if you aren't willing to die for it yourself.

Tommy Monk wrote:Gun deaths also vary dramatically by type. The vast majority (77 percent) of white gun deaths are suicides; less than one in five (19 percent) is a homicide. These figures are nearly opposite in the black population, where only 14 percent of gun deaths are suicides but 82 percent are homicides:

The firearm homicide rate among black men aged 20-29 is about 89 per 100,000.To put that fact in some international perspective, in Honduras—the country with the highest recorded homicide rate—there were 90.4 intentional murders per 100,000 people in 2012. That includes all means, not just firearm homicides.


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2015/12/15/guns-and-race-the-different-worlds-of-black-and-white-americans/

veya_victaous wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Gun deaths also vary dramatically by type. The vast majority (77 percent) of white gun deaths are suicides; less than one in five (19 percent) is a homicide. These figures are nearly opposite in the black population, where only 14 percent of gun deaths are suicides but 82 percent are homicides:

The firearm homicide rate among black men aged 20-29 is about 89 per 100,000.To put that fact in some international perspective, in Honduras—the country with the highest recorded homicide rate—there were 90.4 intentional murders per 100,000 people in 2012. That includes all means, not just firearm homicides.


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2015/12/15/guns-and-race-the-different-worlds-of-black-and-white-americans/

yep that 19% alone is 5 times higher than in the UK, Aren't You glad you have strong gun control laws tommy

And even if you take the demographics of just white America it is still over double

Maddog wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:I think you don't get to ask others to die for your right to own a gun if you aren't willing to die for it yourself.

Who asked anyone to die? I never have. My basic philosophy is to ask nothing of others. That's why I generally support negative rights, and oppose positive rights.  

veya_victaous wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Who asked anyone to die? I never have. My basic philosophy is to ask nothing of others. That's why I generally support negative rights, and oppose positive rights.  

Umm yes you do.

You ask EVERYONE in your society to live under constant threat and Accept that a portion of them will be shot down, and You ask them to Accept they might be shot trying to go to school so you can have guns.

So if you oppose Positive rights then you should oppose the granting of firearms at the cost of basic safety.

Maddog wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Gun deaths also vary dramatically by type. The vast majority (77 percent) of white gun deaths are suicides; less than one in five (19 percent) is a homicide. These figures are nearly opposite in the black population, where only 14 percent of gun deaths are suicides but 82 percent are homicides:

The firearm homicide rate among black men aged 20-29 is about 89 per 100,000.To put that fact in some international perspective, in Honduras—the country with the highest recorded homicide rate—there were 90.4 intentional murders per 100,000 people in 2012. That includes all means, not just firearm homicides.


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2015/12/15/guns-and-race-the-different-worlds-of-black-and-white-americans/

yep that 19% alone is 5 times higher than in the UK, Aren't You glad you have strong gun control laws tommy

And even if you take the demographics of just white America it is still over double

You're conflating figures. That 19% only counts white murders. The US murder rate includes all murders, which is 5 times higher than the UK.  

firearm deaths accounted for over 11 percent of all years of potential life lost among the black population, but less than 6 percent of all years of potential life lost among the white population.

Maddog wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:
I think you don't get to ask others to die for your right to own a gun if you aren't willing to die for it yourself.

Who asked anyone to die? I never have. My basic philosophy is to ask nothing of others. That's why I generally support negative rights, and oppose positive rights.

Maddog wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Who asked anyone to die? I never have. My basic philosophy is to ask nothing of others. That's why I generally support negative rights, and oppose positive rights.  

Umm yes you do.

You ask EVERYONE in your society to live under constant threat and Accept that a portion of them will be shot down, and You ask them to Accept they might be shot trying to go to school so you can have guns.

So if you oppose Positive rights then you should oppose the granting of firearms at the cost of basic safety.

No, I don't. I don't care if you have guns, or don't have guns. I'm not asking you to do anything. You are the only one asking someone to do something.

I don't think you know what negative and positive rights are. You may want to google that.  

veya_victaous wrote:

Maddog wrote:

No, I don't. I don't care if you have guns, or don't have guns. I'm not asking you to do anything. You are the only one asking someone to do something.

I don't think you know what negative and positive rights are. You may want to google that.  

Your asking for Kids to Forgo Safety, You are asking them to NOT have something far more Important than you guns
I know your selfish and Brainwashed so you struggle to step back and see it from any perspective from yours

But all those DEAD kids, had something taken from them by YOU so you can have a goddam hobby  

Maddog wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Your asking for Kids to Forgo Safety, You are asking them to NOT have something far more Important than you guns
I know your selfish and Brainwashed so you struggle to step back and see it from any perspective from yours

But all those DEAD kids, had something taken from them by YOU so you can have a goddam hobby  

Own guns, or don't own guns. I don't care. And no amount of your whining will ever make me care if you own guns.  

Maddog wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Maddog wrote:

No, I don't. I don't care if you have guns, or don't have guns. I'm not asking you to do anything. You are the only one asking someone to do something.

I don't think you know what negative and positive rights are. You may want to google that.  

Your asking for Kids to Forgo Safety, You are asking them to NOT have something far more Important than you guns
I know your selfish and Brainwashed so you struggle to step back and see it from any perspective from yours

But all those DEAD kids, had something taken from them by YOU so you can have a goddam hobby  

Own guns, or don't own guns. I don't care. And no amount of your whining will ever make me care if you own guns.  

veya_victaous wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Own guns, or don't own guns. I don't care. And no amount of your whining will ever make me care if you own guns.  

Which implicitly admits to No amount of Whining ever making you care about Kids lives either

Cause it's not Guns or No Guns
It's kids can safely go to school or kids get shot at school
Your preference is Kids getting Shot at school

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Own guns, or don't own guns. I don't care. And no amount of your whining will ever make me care if you own guns.  

And Iran with nuclear weapons?  That's all right with you?  "No amount of your whining will ever make me care if [they] own" them?

I mean, that's really what you are saying.  Everyone can have weapons, it doesn't matter.

Tommy Monk wrote:

There are millions of poor white people in the US...


But it is mostly blacks who are the perpetrators of gun murders... and mostly blacks who are the victims...

Maddog wrote:

Didge wrote:


Which proves my point on relative poverty, does it not?

On the black part it does. Blacks are more likely to be poor, therefore more likely to be involved in or victims of crime.

Not sure about suicides. I've never researched it, but my gut tells me it might actually be more prevalent around folks with a little more disposable income.    

Maddog wrote:


Sorry, it just showed up on my Facebook, which is odd.