Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

by Original Quill Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:35 am

First topic message reminder :

Yahoo News wrote:Sheriff: At Least 17 Dead In Florida High School Shooting; Ex-Student In Custody, ID’d
Lisa de Moraes•February 14, 2018

UPDATED, 3:25 PM: Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said at least 17 people are dead and more than a dozen wounded in the school shooting in Parkland, FL. He said 12 bodies were found inside the school, two outside the building, another on a street near the school and two died at a hospital.

The suspect has been identified as Nikolas Cruz, 19, a former student at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School who was expelled for disciplinary reasons. He is in police custody. Israel said police have recovered an AR-15 assault rifle they believe was used in the attack and that the suspect had “multiple magazines.”

PREVIOUSLY, 2:13 PM: Campus building are not safe to be cleared until the SWAT team on site says it’s safe and clear, he added. Students are still in the school building; Israel instructed parents looking for their child to go to a nearby Marriott, to which students are being transported as they are evacuated.

A male suspect, about 18 years old is in custody; he was apprehended without incident off campus in a nearby community, Israel said. The shooting suspect was, at various times during the shooting, outside and inside the building. He is a former student at the school.

Fox News Channel’s Shep Smith reported the suspect, who “knew the lay of the land” at the campus, was taken to a local hospital and was “being treated for we don’t know,” and will then be taken for processing.

TV news outlets abruptly dropped Washington-centric coverage Wednesday afternoon when a shooter attacked students and staff at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida on Wednesday afternoon. Quick word of at least 20 shot in the school or on the campus triggered TV news pundit talk of Columbine High School massacre of 1999 in which 12 students and one teacher were murdered, and another 24 injured, by two heavily armed students who then committed suicide.

Cable news networks showed helicopter footage of ambulances swarming the area, victims being tended to on sidewalks, and a SWAT team heading with weapons drawn toward the high school attended by about 3K students. Dozens of teens could be seen running or walking from the building, some with hands raised over their heads to signal they did not have a weapon.

More than an hour after first reports of the shooting, local sheriff tweeted to warning the gunman, who had shot into the school from outside the building, still was at large:

Follow @browardsheriff for latest info on the #stonemanshooting. Shooter still at large.

Multiple students interviewed on CNN said students began running out of the building after someone pulled a fire alarm in the school about 10 minutes before end of school day; one reported they were told over the school’s intercom system to evacuate the building. As they exited, shots were heard, students told the network affiliate’s reporter.

One distraught mother marveled the network the city had just been named safest place to live in Florida.

White House said Failing Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon had been alerted:

From Deputy Press Secretary Lindsay Walters:

The President has been made aware of the school shooting in Florida. We are monitoring the situation. Our thoughts and prayers are with those affected.

Donald Trump Finally Breaks Silence, Scolds Press For Not Knowing He's "Totally Opposed To Domestic Violence"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tv-networks-jump-florida-high-210531879.html

by 'Wolfie Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:30 am

Maddog wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Maddog gives two or three examples of citizens shooting crim's...

That means there will have been 97 or 98 incidents where the shooter did miss..

Including where people have shot their own child, or a neighbour, or even shot themselves in the leg or foot when drawing their weapons.

I'm well over a dozen from that past month or two.

I could blow this forum up with them if I really wanted to.

It happens that often here.

Yep...

And for that dozen-plus, that means thete will be well over a hundred innocents shot over the same period..

Then again, that "collateral damage" is acceptable over there, isn't it ! Just bad luck, and no wonder it doesn't get equal news time -- more than twenty people being shot in your neighbourhood every week ? It would probably only make the news if a week went by without any innocent shooting victims, in that case !!!

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:32 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I'm well over a dozen from that past month or two.

I could blow this forum up with them if I really wanted to.

It happens that often here.

Yep...

And for that dozen-plus, that means thete will be well over a hundred innocents shot over the same period..

Then again, that "collateral damage" is acceptable over there, isn't it ! Just bad luck, and no wonder it doesn't get equal news time -- more than twenty people being shot in your neighbourhood every week ? It would probably only make the news if a week went by without any innocent shooting victims, in that case !!!

SPARTANBURG, S.C. —
A trail of blood led police officers behind a Spartanburg home, where they found a burglary suspect with multiple gunshot wounds Thursday morning, Spartanburg police Maj. Art Littlejohn said.

Officers were dispatched to Gentry Street about a woman shooting a man, Littlejohn said.

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Officers said when they arrived at the residence, a woman was crying on the front porch and another woman was holding a 9 mm handgun, Littlejohn said.

One woman said she was in her bedroom on the phone with the door shut while everyone was asleep. The woman said she saw a black figure open the door, peep in and shut the door when he saw her, according to an incident report.

The other woman jumped up to help when she heard the woman on the phone screaming and telling the man to get out, the incident report said.

The woman who was on the phone when the man came in her room grabbed a gun and shot at the man while he was running out of the house, the report said.

The women then went to check to see if their children, who were sleeping, were safe, the report said.

http://www.wyff4.com/article/trail-of-blood-led-police-to-burglary-suspect-shot-by-woman-police-say/13103277

Guess you're upset these women were able to defend themselves and their kids.

Why is that?

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:37 am

I can go on, and on, and on, because it happens thousands of times a year.

by Cass Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:00 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Cass wrote:Everything can be made into a weapon. A bottle of wine, a book, a piece of jewelry, a shoe, a car.

BUT they were designed to be used for a purpose that did not include injuring or killing anyone.

Guns were specifically designed to kill whether it be an animal or another human.

It’s that simple.

Time for the 2nd amendment to be repealed. We did it with owning other human beings but we can’t do it with objects that were designed to kill? How fucked up is that.

[b][/u]Again will bad things continue to happen? Yes. They happened way before guns were invented, since time began. It’s a fact of life.[b][/u]

The vast majority of countries show that everyday people living without access to guns live just fine. The US has been conditioned into fear by the very document that was part of the founding of our country.

Guns have never been designed for, or owned by any of the millions upon millions of responsible law abiding citizens in the US, for the intended purpose of going into a school and shooting up a load of students...!

If you think that removing guns from responsible law abiding citizens is going to stop a loon/criminal getting a gun, or using some alternative weapon/tool/vehicle to do something crazy, then you are a loon too!!!

In an ideal world there would be no loons, or crime... but there would still be guns for hunting/sport/pest control/recreational target practice at shooting ranges, as well as being bought/sold/possessed by collectors of antiques/militaria etc...

But in the real world... there is crime and there are loons... and removing guns from responsible law abiding citizens won't stop criminals or loons getting guns, or them just using other weapons...!!!

Reading is fundamental.

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:13 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Maddog gives two or three examples of citizens shooting crim's...

That means there will have been 97 or 98 incidents where the shooter did miss..

Including where people have shot their own child, or a neighbour, or even shot themselves in the leg or foot when drawing their weapons.

I'm well over a dozen from that past month or two.

I could blow this forum up with them if I really wanted to.

It happens that often here.

Yep...

And for that dozen-plus, that means thete will be well over a hundred innocents shot over the same period..

Then again, that "collateral damage" is acceptable over there, isn't it ! Just bad luck, and no wonder it doesn't get equal news time -- more than twenty people being shot in your neighbourhood every week ? It would probably only make the news if a week went by without any innocent shooting victims, in that case !!!

in a month and a half there has been 18 dangerous Gun related incidents this year, with about 20 deaths as a result
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/school-shootings-2018-1?r=US&IR=T

but Maddog would prefer for Amateurs to be cowboys then Professional to deal with criminals Rolling Eyes

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:17 am

veya_victaous wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Yep...

And for that dozen-plus, that means thete will be well over a hundred innocents shot over the same period..

Then again, that "collateral damage" is acceptable over there, isn't it ! Just bad luck, and no wonder it doesn't get equal news time -- more than twenty people being shot in your neighbourhood every week ? It would probably only make the news if a week went by without any innocent shooting victims, in that case !!!

in a month and a half there has been 18 dangerous Gun related incidents this year, with about 20 deaths as a result
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/school-shootings-2018-1?r=US&IR=T

but Maddog would prefer for Amateurs to be cowboys then Professional to deal with criminals

There's been thousands of gun related incidents. Want to see some more?

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:20 am

Andrew Yanez, 24, has been charged and arrested for Attempted Robbery and Felon in Possession of a Firearm.

According to the Stanton Police Department, the elderly man was leaving a convenience store Friday afternoon when he was approached by a suspect.

The suspect then demanded keys to his vehicle, stating "It would be best for you to give me the keys, I want your car" and implied violence would be used, according to police.

It was then that the victim who was licensed to carry a handgun drew his concealed firearm and pointed it towards the suspect, who fled the scene on foot.

A description of the suspect was provided to police, and he was located two blocks away from the scene and was identified as Yanez.

According to police, Yanez was found to have a semi-automatic handgun in his possession. He was then arrested and booked into the Martin County Jail.

http://www.cbs7.com/content/news/79-year-old-thwarts-would-be-robber-with-concealed-firearm-442515923.html

They don't call them the equalizer for nothing. Think about it Veya. An old man is your equal with a handgun. Is that why you don't like them?

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:55 am

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Yep...

And for that dozen-plus, that means thete will be well over a hundred innocents shot over the same period..

Then again, that "collateral damage" is acceptable over there, isn't it ! Just bad luck, and no wonder it doesn't get equal news time -- more than twenty people being shot in your neighbourhood every week ? It would probably only make the news if a week went by without any innocent shooting victims, in that case !!!

in a month and a half there has been 18 dangerous Gun related incidents this year, with about 20 deaths as a result
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/school-shootings-2018-1?r=US&IR=T

but Maddog would prefer for Amateurs to be cowboys then Professional to deal with criminals

There's been thousands of gun related incidents. Want to see some more?

oh sorry my post should have read
"18 dangerous Gun related incidents this year IN SCHOOLS"

missed the critical part, this is just the impact on kids in School pale

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:59 am

Maddog wrote:Andrew Yanez, 24, has been charged and arrested for Attempted Robbery and Felon in Possession of a Firearm.

According to the Stanton Police Department, the elderly man was leaving a convenience store Friday afternoon when he was approached by a suspect.

The suspect then demanded keys to his vehicle, stating "It would be best for you to give me the keys, I want your car" and implied violence would be used, according to police.

It was then that the victim who was licensed to carry a handgun drew his concealed firearm and pointed it towards the suspect, who fled the scene on foot.

A description of the suspect was provided to police, and he was located two blocks away from the scene and was identified as Yanez.

According to police, Yanez was found to have a semi-automatic handgun in his possession. He was then arrested and booked into the Martin County Jail.

http://www.cbs7.com/content/news/79-year-old-thwarts-would-be-robber-with-concealed-firearm-442515923.html

They don't call them the equalizer for nothing. Think about it Veya. An old man is your equal with a handgun. Is that why you don't like them?

but why would either me or the old man NEED one? Suspect

And Clearly by the total number of Gun deaths in the USA and the generally higher violent crime rates, ALL the cases you are posting don't make up for it being a terrible policy to allow Civilian cowboy wannbes to have guns Wink

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:02 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:Andrew Yanez, 24, has been charged and arrested for Attempted Robbery and Felon in Possession of a Firearm.

According to the Stanton Police Department, the elderly man was leaving a convenience store Friday afternoon when he was approached by a suspect.

The suspect then demanded keys to his vehicle, stating "It would be best for you to give me the keys, I want your car" and implied violence would be used, according to police.

It was then that the victim who was licensed to carry a handgun drew his concealed firearm and pointed it towards the suspect, who fled the scene on foot.

A description of the suspect was provided to police, and he was located two blocks away from the scene and was identified as Yanez.

According to police, Yanez was found to have a semi-automatic handgun in his possession. He was then arrested and booked into the Martin County Jail.

http://www.cbs7.com/content/news/79-year-old-thwarts-would-be-robber-with-concealed-firearm-442515923.html

They don't call them the equalizer for nothing. Think about it Veya. An old man is your equal with a handgun. Is that why you don't like them?

but why would either me or the old man NEED one?

And Clearly by the total number of Gun deaths in the USA and the generally higher violent crime rates, ALL the cases you are posting don't make up for it being a terrible policy to allow Civilian cowboy wannbes to have guns

The old man needed one because he was threatened by a much younger man.

Or did you want to see the old man get harmed?

It worked for the civilians in the cases I posted. Thousands more. Do you want to see more?

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:09 am

LOS ALTOS HILLS — Authorities have identified a Georgia man who was wounded in a home shootout after he broke in and attacked a woman he was reportedly stalking, only to be sent away by her relative who returned fire.

William Brady III, 43, remains at a local hospital and is expected to survive multiple gunshot wounds he sustained in the Friday confrontation on Oak Knoll Circle, according to the Santa Clara County Sheriff’s Office. Brady was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder and is expected to be booked into jail once he is released from the hospital.

According to the Sheriff’s Office, the encounter occurred sometime around 11 a.m. Friday when Brady walked up to the Los Altos Hills home and appeared to be armed with a handgun. A woman inside called 911 to report Brady’s appearance at the home — where she was staying with relatives — and said he had been stalking her.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/17/los-altos-hills-shooting-wounded-stalking-suspect-identified/

Stalker gets shot.

I guess some folks would prefer that stalkers didn't get shot. We can always try them after they kill their female victim.

by Cass Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:21 am

Maddog wrote:LOS ALTOS HILLS — Authorities have identified a Georgia man who was wounded in a home shootout after he broke in and attacked a woman he was reportedly stalking, only to be sent away by her relative who returned fire.

William Brady III, 43, remains at a local hospital and is expected to survive multiple gunshot wounds he sustained in the Friday confrontation on Oak Knoll Circle, according to the Santa Clara County Sheriff’s Office. Brady was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder and is expected to be booked into jail once he is released from the hospital.

According to the Sheriff’s Office, the encounter occurred sometime around 11 a.m. Friday when Brady walked up to the Los Altos Hills home and appeared to be armed with a handgun. A woman inside called 911 to report Brady’s appearance at the home — where she was staying with relatives — and said he had been stalking her.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/17/los-altos-hills-shooting-wounded-stalking-suspect-identified/

Stalker gets shot.

I guess some folks would prefer that stalkers didn't get shot. We can always try them after they kill their female victim.

Do you know how pathetic you look with that comment?

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:38 am

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:Andrew Yanez, 24, has been charged and arrested for Attempted Robbery and Felon in Possession of a Firearm.

According to the Stanton Police Department, the elderly man was leaving a convenience store Friday afternoon when he was approached by a suspect.

The suspect then demanded keys to his vehicle, stating "It would be best for you to give me the keys, I want your car" and implied violence would be used, according to police.

It was then that the victim who was licensed to carry a handgun drew his concealed firearm and pointed it towards the suspect, who fled the scene on foot.

A description of the suspect was provided to police, and he was located two blocks away from the scene and was identified as Yanez.

According to police, Yanez was found to have a semi-automatic handgun in his possession. He was then arrested and booked into the Martin County Jail.

http://www.cbs7.com/content/news/79-year-old-thwarts-would-be-robber-with-concealed-firearm-442515923.html

They don't call them the equalizer for nothing. Think about it Veya. An old man is your equal with a handgun. Is that why you don't like them?

but why would either me or the old man NEED one?

And Clearly by the total number of Gun deaths in the USA and the generally higher violent crime rates, ALL the cases you are posting don't make up for it being a terrible policy to allow Civilian cowboy wannbes to have guns

The old man needed one because he was threatened by a much younger man.

Or did you want to see the old man get harmed?

It worked for the civilians in the cases I posted. Thousands more. Do you want to see more?

would it not be more sensible to foster a society where people don't threaten each other?
which the USA proves beyond doubt only gets worse with the addition of guns.

Sorry Forgot You don't like the sensible option. Suspect

like amending amendments tongue

by 'Wolfie Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:11 am

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:LOS ALTOS HILLS — Authorities have identified a Georgia man who was wounded in a home shootout after he broke in and attacked a woman he was reportedly stalking, only to be sent away by her relative who returned fire.

William Brady III, 43, remains at a local hospital and is expected to survive multiple gunshot wounds he sustained in the Friday confrontation on Oak Knoll Circle, according to the Santa Clara County Sheriff’s Office. Brady was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder and is expected to be booked into jail once he is released from the hospital.

According to the Sheriff’s Office, the encounter occurred sometime around 11 a.m. Friday when Brady walked up to the Los Altos Hills home and appeared to be armed with a handgun. A woman inside called 911 to report Brady’s appearance at the home — where she was staying with relatives — and said he had been stalking her.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/17/los-altos-hills-shooting-wounded-stalking-suspect-identified/

Stalker gets shot.

I guess some folks would prefer that stalkers didn't get shot. We can always try them after they kill their female victim.

Do you know how pathetic you look with that comment?

Today dopey old Maddog is proving himself to be just another unthinking reactionary gun nut..

Not much better than those redneck Repub retards who are causing all this angst..

by 'Wolfie Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:20 am

Maddog wrote:
Andrew Yanez, 24, has been charged and arrested for Attempted Robbery and Felon in Possession of a Firearm.

According to the Stanton Police Department, the elderly man was leaving a convenience store Friday afternoon when he was approached by a suspect.

The suspect then demanded keys to his vehicle, stating "It would be best for you to give me the keys, I want your car" and implied violence would be used, according to police.

It was then that the victim who was licensed to carry a handgun drew his concealed firearm and pointed it towards the suspect, who fled the scene on foot.

A description of the suspect was provided to police, and he was located two blocks away from the scene and was identified as Yanez.

According to police, Yanez was found to have a semi-automatic handgun in his possession. He was then arrested and booked into the Martin County Jail.

http://www.cbs7.com/content/news/79-year-old-thwarts-would-be-robber-with-concealed-firearm-442515923.html

They don't call them the equalizer for nothing. Think about it Veya. An old man is your equal with a handgun. Is that why you don't like them?

For every baddie who is shot, there will be ten times as many innocents...

For every hundred crims actually killed, there will be a thousand innocents..

How many innocents killed as collateral damage will be too many for you, DopeyDawg ? Ten thousand ? One hundred thousand ? One million ?

Just as long as you get your few hundred dead crim's to the guns of unlicensed citizens every year; those innocents who die to support your agenda should be proud that you were willing to sacrifice their lives for your principles..

by eddie Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:57 am

Maddog wrote:
eddie wrote:
Cass wrote:

Sort of near me last night, a 15 year old shot himself and died because they were playing Russian roulette!!!! It’s fucking crazy. I hate it.

That is just so sad. You’d think that kids that age would know better and that guns weren’t readily available for them to get hold of!

They're eating Tide Pods for Christ's sake. Why would you think that?

That’s true. I have one indoors, a teenager not a Tide Pod, and this is so far removed from what he’s like that I can’t get my head around it.

by Original Quill Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:25 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

The old man needed one because he was threatened by a much younger man.

Or did you want to see the old man get harmed?

It worked for the civilians in the cases I posted. Thousands more. Do you want to see more?

would it not be more sensible to foster a society where people don't threaten each other?
which the USA proves beyond doubt only gets worse with the addition of guns.

Sorry Forgot You don't like the sensible option.
like amending amendments

The reason is, veya, that southerners have a hate-hole right in the middle of them. They lost their bid to preserve the slavery of the black man--the Civil War--and they presently have no desire to foster a non-threatening society.

They don't want to accept that world in peace and harmony as long as their racial orientation isn't vindicated. Hence, the guns. Hence, the massacres. Hence, the politics. Hence, the division. It's like the father who kills his sons because the court won't award him custody. If I can't have them, nobody will!

How'd you like to live with that? Now suppose all Australians around Melbourne and Adelaide, all the way to Perth, had that mass attitude. That's life for us in the US.

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:00 pm

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:LOS ALTOS HILLS — Authorities have identified a Georgia man who was wounded in a home shootout after he broke in and attacked a woman he was reportedly stalking, only to be sent away by her relative who returned fire.

William Brady III, 43, remains at a local hospital and is expected to survive multiple gunshot wounds he sustained in the Friday confrontation on Oak Knoll Circle, according to the Santa Clara County Sheriff’s Office. Brady was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder and is expected to be booked into jail once he is released from the hospital.

According to the Sheriff’s Office, the encounter occurred sometime around 11 a.m. Friday when Brady walked up to the Los Altos Hills home and appeared to be armed with a handgun. A woman inside called 911 to report Brady’s appearance at the home — where she was staying with relatives — and said he had been stalking her.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/17/los-altos-hills-shooting-wounded-stalking-suspect-identified/

Stalker gets shot.

I guess some folks would prefer that stalkers didn't get shot. We can always try them after they kill their female victim.

Do you know how pathetic you look with that comment?

Being glad that women can stop stalkers is pathetic?

As the father of 3 daughters I'll take it. You can worry about the stalkers rights to not be shot.

by nicko Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:31 pm

Why is it scum go shooting up Schools but never at an NRA convention?

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:52 pm

nicko wrote:Why is it scum go shooting up Schools but never at an NRA convention?

Cowards and the mentally ill like the weakest targets. Most schools are gun free zones. They know they will have 2-5 minutes of uncontested shooting until they surrender or kill themselves.

Even schools with cops can't stop someone quickly on the other side of a gigantic school.

by Cass Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:18 pm

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

Do you know how pathetic you look with that comment?

Being glad that women can stop stalkers is pathetic?

As the father of 3 daughters I'll take it. You can worry about the stalkers rights to not be shot.

Now you’re just being a snide little jerk. You know exactly what I mean. But it’s there for everyone to see and make up their own minds.

by Tommy Monk Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:57 pm

Cass wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Guns have never been designed for, or owned by any of the millions upon millions of responsible law abiding citizens in the US, for the intended purpose of going into a school and shooting up a load of students...!

If you think that removing guns from responsible law abiding citizens is going to stop a loon/criminal getting a gun, or using some alternative weapon/tool/vehicle to do something crazy, then you are a loon too!!!

In an ideal world there would be no loons, or crime... but there would still be guns for hunting/sport/pest control/recreational target practice at shooting ranges, as well as being bought/sold/possessed by collectors of antiques/militaria etc...

But in the real world... there is crime and there are loons... and removing guns from responsible law abiding citizens won't stop criminals or loons getting guns, or them just using other weapons...!!!

Reading is fundamental.

I did read all your post Cass... I was replying to the majority of what you said...

Quote Cass...

Everything can be made into a weapon. A bottle of wine, a book, a piece of jewelry, a shoe, a car.

BUT they were designed to be used for a purpose that did not include injuring or killing anyone.

Guns were specifically designed to kill whether it be an animal or another human.

It’s that simple.

Time for the 2nd amendment to be repealed. We did it with owning other human beings but we can’t do it with objects that were designed to kill? How fucked up is that.

The vast majority of countries show that everyday people living without access to guns live just fine. The US has been conditioned into fear by the very document that was part of the founding of our country.

And I have explained in other of my posts that removing guns from responsible law abiding citizens does not stop criminals getting guns, or them doing bad things with guns... in fact it only makes the gun weilding criminal more powerful against everybody else, having had their guns removed and leaving them disempowered, defenceless and totally vulnerable/easy targets for the criminal (still with guns) to attack...!

Veya... I don't know who this 'Jim' is, or why you think he might be in a position to dictate my opinion...?

Haven't watched it... yet...

Tell me... who is he? And why should I watch/listen to him?

Wolf... you keep claiming stuff like '9 out of 10 people who use their gun in self defence, shoot wrong people by accident/ineptitude' etc... how about some credible links to stats on that...?

by Tommy Monk Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:59 pm

Cass wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Guns have never been designed for, or owned by any of the millions upon millions of responsible law abiding citizens in the US, for the intended purpose of going into a school and shooting up a load of students...!

If you think that removing guns from responsible law abiding citizens is going to stop a loon/criminal getting a gun, or using some alternative weapon/tool/vehicle to do something crazy, then you are a loon too!!!

In an ideal world there would be no loons, or crime... but there would still be guns for hunting/sport/pest control/recreational target practice at shooting ranges, as well as being bought/sold/possessed by collectors of antiques/militaria etc...

But in the real world... there is crime and there are loons... and removing guns from responsible law abiding citizens won't stop criminals or loons getting guns, or them just using other weapons...!!!

Reading is fundamental.

I did read all your post Cass... I was replying to the majority of what you said...

Quote Cass...

Everything can be made into a weapon. A bottle of wine, a book, a piece of jewelry, a shoe, a car.

BUT they were designed to be used for a purpose that did not include injuring or killing anyone.

Guns were specifically designed to kill whether it be an animal or another human.

It’s that simple.

Time for the 2nd amendment to be repealed. We did it with owning other human beings but we can’t do it with objects that were designed to kill? How fucked up is that.

The vast majority of countries show that everyday people living without access to guns live just fine. The US has been conditioned into fear by the very document that was part of the founding of our country.

And I have explained in other of my posts that removing guns from responsible law abiding citizens does not stop criminals getting guns, or them doing bad things with guns... in fact it only makes the gun weilding criminal more powerful against everybody else, having had their guns removed and leaving them disempowered, defenceless and totally vulnerable/easy targets for the criminal (still with guns) to attack...!

Veya... I don't know who this 'Jim' is, or why you think he might be in a position to dictate my opinion...?

Haven't watched it... yet...

Tell me... who is he? And why should I watch/listen to him?

Wolf... you keep claiming stuff like '9 out of 10 people who use their gun in self defence, shoot wrong people by accident/ineptitude' etc... how about some credible links to stats on that...?

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:07 pm

nicko wrote:Why is it scum go shooting up Schools but never at an NRA convention?

often the shooters are students and involved in the typical teen drama BUT with Guns

in the case of sandy hook his mother worked there I believe

by Tommy Monk Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:17 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

There's been thousands of gun related incidents. Want to see some more?

oh sorry my post should have read
"18 dangerous Gun related incidents this year IN SCHOOLS"

missed the critical part, this is just the impact on kids in School

Blame the criminals/gang-bangers/thugs responsible for those incidents, and punish THEM for THEIR actions/behaviour... Don't punish the 99.999999999% of responsible law abiding citizens...!!!

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:18 pm

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Being glad that women can stop stalkers is pathetic?

As the father of 3 daughters I'll take it. You can worry about the stalkers rights to not be shot.

Now you’re just being a snide little jerk. You know exactly what I mean. But it’s there for everyone to see and make up their own minds.

Snide?

I'm simply wondering if people are glad that a stalker was shot before they could create another victim.

Everyone want's to sidestep that point, so yeah, I'm calling them out.

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:48 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

There's been thousands of gun related incidents. Want to see some more?

oh sorry my post should have read
"18 dangerous Gun related incidents this year IN SCHOOLS"

missed the critical part, this is just the impact on kids in School

Blame the criminals/gang-bangers/thugs responsible for those incidents, and punish THEM for THEIR actions/behaviour... Don't punish the 99.999999999% of responsible law abiding citizens...!!!

this shooter in the Op was a Legal gun owner so almost all the school shooters. the Sandy Hook Shooter ALL legal guns, the kid that shot up the theatre dressed as the Joker fully Legal.
So you point is Dumb and factually nonsense Rolling Eyes

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:55 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Blame the criminals/gang-bangers/thugs responsible for those incidents, and punish THEM for THEIR actions/behaviour... Don't punish the 99.999999999% of responsible law abiding citizens...!!!

this shooter in the Op was a Legal gun owner so almost all the school shooters. the Sandy Hook Shooter ALL legal guns, the kid that shot up the theatre dressed as the Joker fully Legal.
So you point is Dumb and factually nonsense

Some are, some are not legal gun owners. The Sandy Hook shooter stole his moms guns after he killed her. I can't remember how old he was, so I'm not really sure if he could even possess some of the guns he had without adult supervision.

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:04 pm

Adam Lanza carried two handguns in addition to his mother's rifle, and was 20 years old, therefore two of his 3 weapons were not legal. The weapon he used to kill his mother was his, and was a .22 bolt action.

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:20 pm

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Blame the criminals/gang-bangers/thugs responsible for those incidents, and punish THEM for THEIR actions/behaviour... Don't punish the 99.999999999% of responsible law abiding citizens...!!!

this shooter in the Op was a Legal gun owner so almost all the school shooters. the Sandy Hook Shooter ALL legal guns, the kid that shot up the theatre dressed as the Joker fully Legal.
So you point is Dumb and factually nonsense

Some are, some are not legal gun owners. The Sandy Hook shooter stole his moms guns after he killed her. I can't remember how old he was, so I'm not really sure if he could even possess some of the guns he had without adult supervision.

So the Guns where legal, his mum bought them legally, and is a Perfect example of Why even a Legal gun owner is threat to society because the create a cache of weapons.

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:22 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Some are, some are not legal gun owners. The Sandy Hook shooter stole his moms guns after he killed her. I can't remember how old he was, so I'm not really sure if he could even possess some of the guns he had without adult supervision.

So the Guns where legal, his mum bought them legally, and is a Perfect example of Why even a Legal gun owner is threat to society because the create a cache of weapons.

Yes, when they are shot while sleeping.

I have an idea. Lets make shooting your mother and stealing her guns illegal.

by Tommy Monk Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:46 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Some are, some are not legal gun owners. The Sandy Hook shooter stole his moms guns after he killed her. I can't remember how old he was, so I'm not really sure if he could even possess some of the guns he had without adult supervision.

So the Guns where legal, his mum bought them legally, and is a Perfect example of Why even a Legal gun owner is threat to society because the create a cache of weapons.

All sorts of things can be used as weapons...!

What if he didn't have the guns... he may well have battered her with a rolling pin and stole her car and driven it into countless people...!

So... ban rolling pins and cars...?

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:12 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Some are, some are not legal gun owners. The Sandy Hook shooter stole his moms guns after he killed her. I can't remember how old he was, so I'm not really sure if he could even possess some of the guns he had without adult supervision.

So the Guns where legal, his mum bought them legally, and is a Perfect example of Why even a Legal gun owner is threat to society because the create a cache of weapons.

All sorts of things can be used as weapons...!

What if he didn't have the guns... he may well have battered her with a rolling pin and stole her car and driven it into countless people...!

So... ban rolling pins and cars...?

Tommy you live in a country WITH GUN CONTROL and as such the Rate of homicide is Approximately 20% of the USA, for every murder in the UK there is 5 in the USA.

Or do you Not like the UK being better than the USA Rolling Eyes

Cause your nation is ALSO proof that Gun control works

by Cass Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:16 am

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

Now you’re just being a snide little jerk. You know exactly what I mean. But it’s there for everyone to see and make up their own minds.

Snide?

I'm simply wondering if people are glad that a stalker was shot before they could create another victim.

Everyone want's to sidestep that point, so yeah, I'm calling them out.

Yes snide.

You’re not calling out anybody. You’re just twisting words to give the illusion that you care more about victims of crime than anybody else so you can look all righteous about guns.

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:17 am

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Some are, some are not legal gun owners. The Sandy Hook shooter stole his moms guns after he killed her. I can't remember how old he was, so I'm not really sure if he could even possess some of the guns he had without adult supervision.

So the Guns where legal, his mum bought them legally, and is a Perfect example of Why even a Legal gun owner is threat to society because the create a cache of weapons.

Yes, when they are shot while sleeping.

I have an idea. Lets make shooting your mother and stealing her guns illegal.

Oh what? are you sure you can surrender that much of your freedom?
I find it hard to believe your not up in arms demanding your freedom to kill your mother... Suspect

Well Since your willing to surrender that freedom maybe you could go a little further Rolling Eyes

You know far enough to prevent the guns being made available to lunatics in the first place, cause its not your cowboy movie, every one has to sleep.

by Cass Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:19 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

All sorts of things can be used as weapons...!

What if he didn't have the guns... he may well have battered her with a rolling pin and stole her car and driven it into countless people...!

So... ban rolling pins and cars...?

Tommy you live in a country WITH GUN CONTROL and as such the Rate of homicide is Approximately 20% of the USA, for every murder in the UK there is 5 in the USA.

Or do you Not like the UK being better than the USA
Cause your nation is ALSO proof that Gun control works

Quite.

Tommy you must have missed it where I said bad things will still happen. They happened before guns were invented.

Rolling pins and cars were not designed to injure or kill people. There is no other use for a gun than to injure or kill.

by Maddog Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:20 am

Cass wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

Tommy you live in a country WITH GUN CONTROL and as such the Rate of homicide is Approximately 20% of the USA, for every murder in the UK there is 5 in the USA.

Or do you Not like the UK being better than the USA
Cause your nation is ALSO proof that Gun control works

Quite.

Tommy you must have missed it where I said bad things will still happen. They happened before guns were invented.

Rolling pins and cars were not designed to injure or kill people. There is no other use for a gun than to injure or kill.

And if someone is coming after my daughters I want them to have that tool.

Is that OK with you??

by Cass Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:23 am

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

Quite.

Tommy you must have missed it where I said bad things will still happen. They happened before guns were invented.

Rolling pins and cars were not designed to injure or kill people. There is no other use for a gun than to injure or kill.

And if someone is coming after my daughters I want them to have that tool.

Is that OK with you??

No it’s not ok. Who is to know that maybe one day, one of your girls may go crazy and use that weapon to go out in a blaze of glory or may make a terrible mistake over something and kill an innocent person.

by Tommy Monk Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:24 am

There are plenty of people here with guns...

Fairly easy to get a shotgun licence and buy yourself a shotgun...

As well as other types of rifles...

Even high power air/gas weapons and pointed pellets... even easier...

by Maddog Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:28 am

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:

And if someone is coming after my daughters I want them to have that tool.

Is that OK with you??

No it’s not ok. Who is to know that maybe one day, one of your girls may go crazy and use that weapon to go out in a blaze of glory or may make a terrible mistake over something and kill an innocent person.

And maybe some piece of shit human tries to attack them and they defend themselves. But that's not OK with you. They should just accept whatever happens and hope the police can get there in time.

Ever single person that defends themselves with a weapon is doing something wrong in your eyes. That's pathetic.

by Cass Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:35 am

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

No it’s not ok. Who is to know that maybe one day, one of your girls may go crazy and use that weapon to go out in a blaze of glory or may make a terrible mistake over something and kill an innocent person.

And maybe some piece of shit human tries to attack them and they defend themselves. But that's not OK with you. They should just accept whatever happens and hope the police can get there in time.

Ever single person that defends themselves with a weapon is doing something wrong in your eyes. That's pathetic.

See that’s it. A lot of what ifs? I’ve gotten through 50 years of life without owning a gun. I was a victim of domestic violence but walked out in the end. I have been alone in the house with and without small children for long periods of time. I have worked by myself in very rural areas at night. And all without a gun. It really is that easy.

I never said your daughters shouldn’t defend themselves. Please don’t try and make it look like I did. I just don’t think guns should be involved.

by Maddog Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:42 am

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:

And maybe some piece of shit human tries to attack them and they defend themselves. But that's not OK with you. They should just accept whatever happens and hope the police can get there in time.

Ever single person that defends themselves with a weapon is doing something wrong in your eyes. That's pathetic.

See that’s it. A lot of what ifs? I’ve gotten through 50 years of life without owning a gun. I was a victim of domestic violence but walked out in the end. I have been alone in the house with and without small children for long periods of time. I have worked by myself in very rural areas at night. And all without a gun. It really is that easy.

I never said your daughters shouldn’t defend themselves. Please don’t try and make it look like I did. I just don’t think guns should be involved.

You were lucky. Many abuse victims are dead.

And I never said you should carry a gun. I don't care if you never carry one.

What does a rural area have to do with anything? It has less people and is safer.

You say a woman can defend themselves, but you don't want them to have the most effective defense tool they can have, so your comments about defense are a little hollow.

Here's the long and the short of it. You have never been in a position where you needed a gun. Other's have not been that fortunate. Many of the ones without a gun are dead, and many that had one are still alive.

by Maddog Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:44 am

Tell you what Cass, I've made it 54 years without ever needing a gun. That however has zero bearing on whether I think you should carry one. It's your life, and your call. I trust you enough to make that decision.

by Cass Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:00 am

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

See that’s it. A lot of what ifs? I’ve gotten through 50 years of life without owning a gun. I was a victim of domestic violence but walked out in the end. I have been alone in the house with and without small children for long periods of time. I have worked by myself in very rural areas at night. And all without a gun. It really is that easy.

I never said your daughters shouldn’t defend themselves. Please don’t try and make it look like I did. I just don’t think guns should be involved.

You were lucky. Many abuse victims are dead.

And I never said you should carry a gun. I don't care if you never carry one.

What does a rural area have to do with anything? It has less people and is safer.

You say a woman can defend themselves, but you don't want them to have the most effective defense tool they can have, so your comments about defense are a little hollow.

Here's the long and the short of it. You have never been in a position where you needed a gun. Other's have not been that fortunate. Many of the ones without a gun are dead, and many that had one are still alive.

Rural as in where there is a lot of substance abuse, guns and genuinely crazy people. And in a state where libraries cannot ban guns or knives from coming in. I find it gross and intimidating. Or when I see someone packing in the grocery store. No rural areas are not safer.

Millions of women around the world have been attacked and survived without having a gun to defend themselves so that’s not being hollow, that’s being real.

by Cass Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:04 am

Maddog wrote:Tell you what Cass, I've made it 54 years without ever needing a gun. That however has zero bearing on whether I think you should carry one. It's your life, and your call. I trust you enough to make that decision.

And I’m glad that you haven’t.

I’m just saying that it is possible to live in a country, peacefully, without everybody having access to guns.

It can be, and is done and has been so for a very long time.

I’m off to watch the ice skating.

by Maddog Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:08 am

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:Tell you what Cass, I've made it 54 years without ever needing a gun. That however has zero bearing on whether I think you should carry one. It's your life, and your call. I trust you enough to make that decision.

And I’m glad that you haven’t.

I’m just saying that it is possible to live in a country, peacefully, without everybody having access to guns.

It can be, and is done and has been so for a very long time.

I’m off to watch the ice skating.

And I'm saying I trust people to make that decision on their own until they prove they can't be trusted. It's part of being free.

by Original Quill Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:04 am

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

And I’m glad that you haven’t.

I’m just saying that it is possible to live in a country, peacefully, without everybody having access to guns.

It can be, and is done and has been so for a very long time.

I’m off to watch the ice skating.

And I'm saying I trust people to make that decision on their own until they prove they can't be trusted. It's part of being free.

You're certainly not free if you feel you need a gun.

by Maddog Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:01 am

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

And I'm saying I trust people to make that decision on their own until they prove they can't be trusted. It's part of being free.

You're certainly not free if you feel you need a gun.

Nobody needs a gun. Then again nobody needs a whiney little bitch, yet here you are. Rolling Eyes

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:13 am

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:

And if someone is coming after my daughters I want them to have that tool.

Is that OK with you??

No it’s not ok. Who is to know that maybe one day, one of your girls may go crazy and use that weapon to go out in a blaze of glory or may make a terrible mistake over something and kill an innocent person.

And maybe some piece of shit human tries to attack them and they defend themselves. But that's not OK with you. They should just accept whatever happens and hope the police can get there in time.

Ever single person that defends themselves with a weapon is doing something wrong in your eyes. That's pathetic.

You see Again
the Marco thinking of Cass
versus the Micro thinking of Maddog

Cass Considers the holistic result an Armed Public will have on the social systems and the Actual measured effect on society
But Maddog can't get away from Small world Scenarios where it's his daughter or something is in a childlike example where 'the good guys win even though cause they're good' despite that being in conflict with reality

the fact that Maddog's daughter is 5 times more likely to be killed in a society with guns seems to continually escape him, She is NOT safer. She and everyone in the society which allows the carrying of arms is more likely to die as a result.

by Maddog Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:19 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

And maybe some piece of shit human tries to attack them and they defend themselves. But that's not OK with you. They should just accept whatever happens and hope the police can get there in time.

Ever single person that defends themselves with a weapon is doing something wrong in your eyes. That's pathetic.

You see Again
the Marco thinking of Cass
versus the Micro thinking of Maddog

Cass Considers the holistic result an Armed Public will have on the social systems and the Actual measured effect on society
But Maddog can't get away from Small world Scenarios where it's his daughter or something is in a childlike example where 'the good guys win even though cause they're good' despite that being in conflict with reality

the fact that Maddog's daughter is 5 times more likely to be killed in a society with guns seems to continually escape him, She is NOT safer. She and everyone in the society which allows the carrying of arms is more likely to die as a result.

She's not 5 times more likely, because the risk is not spread out equally throughout the country or throughout groups. That's simply an average. A white girl in N. Dakota has a far different risk than a black male in New Orleans. Especially, if the latter is involved in any criminal activity.

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