Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

by Original Quill Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:35 am

First topic message reminder :

Yahoo News wrote:Sheriff: At Least 17 Dead In Florida High School Shooting; Ex-Student In Custody, ID’d
Lisa de Moraes•February 14, 2018

UPDATED, 3:25 PM: Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said at least 17 people are dead and more than a dozen wounded in the school shooting in Parkland, FL. He said 12 bodies were found inside the school, two outside the building, another on a street near the school and two died at a hospital.

The suspect has been identified as Nikolas Cruz, 19, a former student at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School who was expelled for disciplinary reasons. He is in police custody. Israel said police have recovered an AR-15 assault rifle they believe was used in the attack and that the suspect had “multiple magazines.”

PREVIOUSLY, 2:13 PM: Campus building are not safe to be cleared until the SWAT team on site says it’s safe and clear, he added. Students are still in the school building; Israel instructed parents looking for their child to go to a nearby Marriott, to which students are being transported as they are evacuated.

A male suspect, about 18 years old is in custody; he was apprehended without incident off campus in a nearby community, Israel said. The shooting suspect was, at various times during the shooting, outside and inside the building. He is a former student at the school.

Fox News Channel’s Shep Smith reported the suspect, who “knew the lay of the land” at the campus, was taken to a local hospital and was “being treated for we don’t know,” and will then be taken for processing.

TV news outlets abruptly dropped Washington-centric coverage Wednesday afternoon when a shooter attacked students and staff at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida on Wednesday afternoon. Quick word of at least 20 shot in the school or on the campus triggered TV news pundit talk of Columbine High School massacre of 1999 in which 12 students and one teacher were murdered, and another 24 injured, by two heavily armed students who then committed suicide.

Cable news networks showed helicopter footage of ambulances swarming the area, victims being tended to on sidewalks, and a SWAT team heading with weapons drawn toward the high school attended by about 3K students. Dozens of teens could be seen running or walking from the building, some with hands raised over their heads to signal they did not have a weapon.

More than an hour after first reports of the shooting, local sheriff tweeted to warning the gunman, who had shot into the school from outside the building, still was at large:

Follow @browardsheriff for latest info on the #stonemanshooting. Shooter still at large.

Multiple students interviewed on CNN said students began running out of the building after someone pulled a fire alarm in the school about 10 minutes before end of school day; one reported they were told over the school’s intercom system to evacuate the building. As they exited, shots were heard, students told the network affiliate’s reporter.

One distraught mother marveled the network the city had just been named safest place to live in Florida.

White House said Failing Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon had been alerted:

From Deputy Press Secretary Lindsay Walters:

The President has been made aware of the school shooting in Florida. We are monitoring the situation. Our thoughts and prayers are with those affected.

Donald Trump Finally Breaks Silence, Scolds Press For Not Knowing He's "Totally Opposed To Domestic Violence"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tv-networks-jump-florida-high-210531879.html

by Tommy Monk Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:45 am

So you think vehicles should be removed from all the responsible law abiding citizens... just because 1 loon might drive one into a crowd...?

by Cass Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:46 am

Everything can be made into a weapon. A bottle of wine, a book, a piece of jewelry, a shoe, a car.

BUT they were designed to be used for a purpose that did not include injuring or killing anyone.

Guns were specifically designed to kill whether it be an animal or another human.

It’s that simple.

Time for the 2nd amendment to be repealed. We did it with owning other human beings but we can’t do it with objects that were designed to kill? How fucked up is that.

Again will bad things continue to happen? Yes. They happened way before guns were invented, since time began. It’s a fact of life.

The vast majority of countries show that everyday people living without access to guns live just fine. The US has been conditioned into fear by the very document that was part of the founding of our country.

by Guest Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:51 am

Tommy Monk wrote:So you think vehicles should be removed from all the responsible law abiding citizens... just because 1 loon might drive one into a crowd...?

Where I did I state that Cathy Newman?

by Eilzel Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:50 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Eilzel wrote:The bat and knife examples are pretty useless too since it is significantly harder to commit murder on a large scale with either, once you kill once it is easier for others to tackle them or run away.

A gun is different. Plus, by making them freely available they are easy to follow into the hands of loons.

Your class A drugs comparison was worse...

My vehicle comparison was better...

If a loon can't get a gun... they could easily get a vehicle...

So by your logic, both should be removed from responsible law abiding citizens...?

The vehicle comparison fails on count of the fact that their purpose is entirely to provide an essential function in the modern world. The economy couldn't function in many places without many people being able to drive.

Guns are required by extremely few people. They are made FOR killing. So not exactly ideal to be put in reach of kids and headcases.

by Original Quill Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:51 am

Cass wrote:Everything can be made into a weapon. A bottle of wine, a book, a piece of jewelry, a shoe, a car.

BUT they were designed to be used for a purpose that did not include injuring or killing anyone.

Guns were specifically designed to kill whether it be an animal or another human.

This is the point. From the aspect of utility, things like vehicles, pitchforks and yes, even knives, have a purpose other than killing. They were not designed for killing. Guns were.

So you have to ask, if I purchase this gun, what exactly am I going to use it for? Shotguns or a .30.06 have an alternative purpose of hunting. But, if one buys any kind of handgun, or an AR-15 or AK-47, we know it's not for any other being than a human being.

Now we have limited the scope of the question: these guns are for purposes of killing fellow human beings. Take a margin of them and class them as dream fulfillment--someone dreams of being a hero in a movie, and possessing the gun is a toy...a dangerous toy. Take another margin of them, and set them aside for self-defense and defense of others. How often does this come up? Again dangerous.

So, the final reason is...murder, or worse, mass murder. So, when we are talking about man-killing instruments, there are thin possibilities that they are for self-defense, and lackadaisical dreamers...but the real answer is they are for murder, with a strong sub-script of mass murder.

Stop deliberately confusing instruments for purposes of avoiding the point. That's what you got with an AR-15. It's for doing something that is completely illegal.

by Maddog Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:10 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Cass wrote:Everything can be made into a weapon. A bottle of wine, a book, a piece of jewelry, a shoe, a car.

BUT they were designed to be used for a purpose that did not include injuring or killing anyone.

Guns were specifically designed to kill whether it be an animal or another human.

This is the point. From the aspect of utility, things like vehicles, pitchforks and yes, even knives, have a purpose other than killing. They were not designed for killing. Guns were.

So you have to ask, if I purchase this gun, what exactly am I going to use it for? Shotguns or a .30.06 have an alternative purpose of hunting. But, if one buys any kind of handgun, or an AR-15 or AK-47, we know it's not for any other being than a human being.

Now we have limited the scope of the question: these guns are for purposes of killing fellow human beings. Take a margin of them and class them as dream fulfillment--someone dreams of being a hero in a movie, and possessing the gun is a toy...a dangerous toy. Take another margin of them, and set them aside for self-defense and defense of others. How often does this come up? Again dangerous.

So, the final reason is...murder, or worse, mass murder. So, when we are talking about man-killing instruments, there are thin possibilities that they are for self-defense, and lackadaisical dreamers...but the real answer is they are for murder, with a strong sub-script of mass murder.

Stop deliberately confusing instruments for purposes of avoiding the point. That's what you got with an AR-15. It's for doing something that is completely illegal.

Plenty of people hunt with the AR. And yes, guns are effective at killing people. There are people that do things that warrant being shot.

This old argument about guns only being good at killing is silly. Of course that's what they are good at, it's what they were designed for. The trick is to make sure that they are only used on those that are a threat to law abiding citizens.

by eddie Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:31 pm

Let’s bring things down to basics: guns have been allowed in America for a long time. Guns have often been misused and killed a lot of innocent people.
The only thing that has NEVER been tried is to stop Tom, Dick and his brother Harry from buying guns...perhaps this will stop the Toms and the Dicks and the Harrys from killing innocent Tom, Dicks and Harrys with guns.

Just a thought.

by Original Quill Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:15 pm

Maddog wrote:Plenty of people hunt with the AR. And yes, guns are effective at killing people. There are people that do things that warrant being shot.

This old argument about guns only being good at killing is silly. Of course that's what they are good at, it's what they were designed for.

It’s what they were designed for…so let’s hear no more nonsense about knives or automobiles that were not solely designed to kill. That is the first relevant distinction.

All right, now lets apportion things to their legitimate place. That is the next relevant distinction. If guns were designed to kill, they should be given only to those who rightly may be caught in a situation where a gun is legitimately needed. Hunters. Police. Military. Not urban civilians.

These mass shootings are not “legitimate”. Let’s root out the illegitimacy. The problem is that the guns are mismatched with people who are mentally ill or have no impulse control. Those people have no legitimate need to have guns and they should be prevented from having them.

Maddog wrote:The trick is to make sure that they are only used on those that are a threat to law abiding citizens.

And the only way to do that is to put strict controls on the purchase, handling and use of the guns. We can no longer combine the purchase of these instruments with traditional freedoms. Gunsafes. Safety inserts. Gunlocks. No open carry. Even periodic official checks on home storage. These are other common sense restraints that must be implemented in order to control guns.

by Maddog Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:51 pm

A Grayson County man is behind bars after allegedly breaking into a residence in Edmonson County.

The Edmonson County Sheriff's Office says 20-year-old Robert Hunt was held at gunpoint by the homeowner until deputies arrived to the house on E.G. Nash Road.

The homeowner was a Concealed/Carry Deadly Weapons permit holder according to a sheriff's deputy that says in situations like that, it's important to alert police to ensure everyone's safety.

"Once you call police, if you're actually going to hold that suspect at gun point you need to let dispatch know. Go ahead and give a description of yourself, so we know once we get on scene who the actual conceal carry holder is and who actualy is the suspect," said Deputy Jordan Jones with the Edmonson County Sheriff's Office.

Hunt was taken to the Hart County jail.

He's facing charges of robbery 2nd degree, theft by unlawful taking or disposition-firearms, and theft by unlawful taking or disposition-all others under $500.

http://www.wbko.com/content/news/Concealed-Carry-holder-holds-robbery-suspect-until-deputies-arrive-472231523.html

by Maddog Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:54 pm

The incident happened in the 11700 block of Chantilly La. in Mitchellville, Md. just after midnight early Wednesday morning, according to Prince George's County police.

Police said a wounded suspect was discovered in front of a home about two blocks away more than an hour later. The man was taken to a hospital. Police have not announced charges or released his identity.

According to Parker, he woke up just before midnight to take medication and heard noises he thought might be animals trying to get in his house. Then he heard crashing.

Parker said he decided to stay in his bedroom.

"I said, well if he exits the house without coming in this room, I'm going to give him a pass," Parker said. "But if he comes into this room I'm not going to give him a pass. And when he crashed into my bedroom door, I was sitting there just waiting for him."

Police said the man was struck by two bullets. Parker said the intruder fled through a basement door.

The home had been the target of a break-in Sunday evening that left a garage door damaged, Parker said. The retired school teacher, and former adjunct college professor noted he'd never had an incident at the address in 33 years of living there.

Estimates of how often guns are displayed or fired in self-defense situations vary wildly.

Guns are used in "self-protective behaviors" about 67,000 times per year in the U.S., according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics National Crime Victimization Survey as reported in a 2015 analysis by the Violence Policy Institute. That compares to 2.5 million times a year claimed by the National Rifle Association.

http://www.wusa9.com/mobile/article/news/local/maryland/83-year-old-retired-md-teacher-shoots-intruder/513321441

by Original Quill Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:12 pm

Self-defense or defense of others/property are valid defenses if someone gets hurt or killed. They apply equally to baseball bats, knives, and other blunt/sharp objects.

They are not a justification for possession or use of firearms, which, as we see, can be used in many situations and are usually fatal. Experts say you are better off without a firearm if someone breaks into your home. Besides the fact that the person you shoot may be a friendly, you run the risk of the firearm falling into the hands of the bad guy. It's a 50-50 chance.

The point is that the firearm doesn't know or care who it shoots. Having one around is inevitably a risk.

by Maddog Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:16 pm

Original Quill wrote:Self-defense or defense of others/property are valid defenses if someone gets hurt or killed. They apply equally to baseball bats, knives, and other blunt/sharp objects.

They are not a justification for possession or use of firearms, which, as we see, can be used in many situations and are usually fatal. Experts say you are better off without a firearm if someone breaks into your home. Besides the fact that the person you shoot may be a friendly, you run the risk of the firearm falling into the hands of the bad guy. It's a 50-50 chance.

The point is that the firearm doesn't know or care who it shoots. Having one around is inevitably a risk.

HOUSTON — A would-be intruder was reportedly hospitalized Tuesday night after being shot multiple times by a homeowner near the Aldine area.

Investigators said the suspect tried to kick down the front door of a home on Anice Street near Ponder Lane around 6:30 p.m. However, the homeowner grabbed his gun and fired at the suspect several times. The suspect ran off and the homeowner called police.

About an hour later, the suspect was found at a nearby hospital, where officials called the Harris County Sheriff’s Office. Investigators said the suspect was transported by helicopter to Memorial Hermann Hospital in the Texas Medical Center in serious condition.

Police identified the suspect as a 30-year-old man.

An investigation is ongoing.

http://cw39.com/2018/01/24/homeowner-shoots-would-be-intruder-multiple-times-near-aldine-investigators-say/

by Original Quill Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:26 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Self-defense or defense of others/property are valid defenses if someone gets hurt or killed. They apply equally to baseball bats, knives, and other blunt/sharp objects.

They are not a justification for possession or use of firearms, which, as we see, can be used in many situations and are usually fatal. Experts say you are better off without a firearm if someone breaks into your home. Besides the fact that the person you shoot may be a friendly, you run the risk of the firearm falling into the hands of the bad guy. It's a 50-50 chance.

The point is that the firearm doesn't know or care who it shoots. Having one around is inevitably a risk.

HOUSTON — A would-be intruder was reportedly hospitalized Tuesday night after being shot multiple times by a homeowner near the Aldine area.

Investigators said the suspect tried to kick down the front door of a home on Anice Street near Ponder Lane around 6:30 p.m. However, the homeowner grabbed his gun and fired at the suspect several times. The suspect ran off and the homeowner called police.

About an hour later, the suspect was found at a nearby hospital, where officials called the Harris County Sheriff’s Office. Investigators said the suspect was transported by helicopter to Memorial Hermann Hospital in the Texas Medical Center in serious condition.

Police identified the suspect as a 30-year-old man.

An investigation is ongoing.

http://cw39.com/2018/01/24/homeowner-shoots-would-be-intruder-multiple-times-near-aldine-investigators-say/

What if the intruder had been his son-in-law, seeking his aid because his daughter had severely cut an artery and was exsanguinating? What would be gained by shooting the SIL, potentially orphaning his grandchildren completely?

by Maddog Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:30 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

HOUSTON — A would-be intruder was reportedly hospitalized Tuesday night after being shot multiple times by a homeowner near the Aldine area.

Investigators said the suspect tried to kick down the front door of a home on Anice Street near Ponder Lane around 6:30 p.m. However, the homeowner grabbed his gun and fired at the suspect several times. The suspect ran off and the homeowner called police.

About an hour later, the suspect was found at a nearby hospital, where officials called the Harris County Sheriff’s Office. Investigators said the suspect was transported by helicopter to Memorial Hermann Hospital in the Texas Medical Center in serious condition.

Police identified the suspect as a 30-year-old man.

An investigation is ongoing.

http://cw39.com/2018/01/24/homeowner-shoots-would-be-intruder-multiple-times-near-aldine-investigators-say/

What if the intruder had been his son-in-law, seeking his aid because his daughter had severely cut an artery and was exsanguinating? What would be gained by shooting the SIL, potentially orphaning his grandchildren completely?

DANBURY TWP. — Police arrested a Milan man Tuesday after he allegedly tried to enter a home before being confronted by a resident with a firearm.

Kyle Huber, 26, of Milan, was charged with aggravated trespassing.

A resident of a home, on North Margaret Drive, woke up just after 1 a.m. to a tapping noise that sounded like someone trying to get in through a window, Danbury police Detective Mark Meisler said.

The resident investigated and found a man, later identified as Huber, allegedly trying to get into the home through the front door.

“The homeowner didn’t know (Huber) at all,” Meisler said.

Huber allegedly ran from the home when the resident met him at the front door with a firearm. No rounds were fired.

Two police officers responded to the scene and found Huber at a nearby residence. They arrested him without any further incident, Meisler said.

They took Huber to the Ottawa County Jail.

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/story/201801160014

by Original Quill Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:44 pm

Could easily have been a motorist with a flat tire, wanting to call AAA for a tow-truck. He ran because some crazy guy opened the door pointing a gun at him.

They "found Huber at a nearby residence" asking the resident to call the police about a crazy man running around in his pajamas with a gun...oh yes, and to call AAA for a tow-truck.

You can't make assumptions with firearms.

by Cass Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:47 pm

You can post stories all day long Maddog. Bad things will still happen. But it’s time to be sensible. People are pissed off with seeing dead kids. Quite rightly too.

by Cass Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:48 pm

eddie wrote:Let’s bring things down to basics: guns have been allowed in America for a long time. Guns have often been misused and killed a lot of innocent people.
The only thing that has NEVER been tried is to stop Tom, Dick and his brother Harry from buying guns...perhaps this will stop the Toms and the Dicks and the Harrys from killing innocent Tom, Dicks and Harrys with guns.

Just a thought.

It’s what we all have been saying with a few exceptions. Now if only we can make it happen.

by Maddog Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:50 pm

Cass wrote:You can post stories all day long Maddog. Bad things will still happen. But it’s time to be sensible. People are pissed off with seeing dead kids. Quite rightly too.

Yes I can post stories all day long of Americans using a firearm to defend themselves.

Think about that. Cool

by Cass Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:53 pm

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:You can post stories all day long Maddog. Bad things will still happen. But it’s time to be sensible. People are pissed off with seeing dead kids. Quite rightly too.

Yes I can post stories all day long of Americans using a firearm to defend themselves.

Think about that.

And I could post stories of millions of other people around the world defending themselves without recourse to guns.

Or how many stories there are of people who were carrying did not stop a crime.

Think about that.

by Original Quill Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:53 pm

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:You can post stories all day long Maddog. Bad things will still happen. But it’s time to be sensible. People are pissed off with seeing dead kids. Quite rightly too.

Yes I can post stories all day long of Americans using a firearm to defend themselves.

Think about that.

Hmmm **thinking**...

Nine times outta ten they will misinterpret the situation and shoot the wrong person.

by Cass Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:54 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Yes I can post stories all day long of Americans using a firearm to defend themselves.

Think about that.

Hmmm **thinking**...

Nine times outta ten they will misinterpret the situation and shoot the wrong person.

Bingo.

by Maddog Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:56 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Yes I can post stories all day long of Americans using a firearm to defend themselves.

Think about that.

Hmmm **thinking**...

Nine times outta ten they will misinterpret the situation and shoot the wrong person.

So 9 out of 10 defensive uses of guns results in the wrong person being shot?

That's a lie, and you know its a lie.

by Maddog Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:59 pm

FORT WORTH, Texas - A Good Samaritan who witnessed a carjacking in Fort Worth took matters into his own hands by shooting the suspect.

The crime happened around 7 a.m. at a gas station in the 3900 block of East Lancaster Avenue. Police said an armed man walked up to Joanna Avalos in the parking lot and demanded her vehicle with her two young kids inside.

"He pulled out the gun and said, ‘Get out of your car! I'm taking your car!’” Joanna recalled.

Joanna had her 11-year-old daughter and 7-year-old son in the black Tahoe with her.

Her son, Edwin, saw the man pull the gun.

"It was like a cowboy gun with the spinning wheel,” the young boy said. “A revolver."

Joanna says the criminal fumbled with the keys. When he couldn't get the SUV started, he ran after her.

"He pulled me and threw me on the floor and said, ‘Give me the [expletive] keys!’ Pointed the gun at me. I'm like, ‘There's two sets of keys!’” she recalled.

Security video is grainy, but it shows two children and their mother running into a convenience store after being chased by a man with a gun. The children were already inside when a clerk pulled their mother to safety.

"I saw my mom on her knees and her hands on the floor inside the store,” recalled 11-year-old Jamileth. “They locked the door and I just heard gunshots."

Avalos says another clerk ran after the carjacker with a gun and shot him after the robber fired at him. Police say the suspect, Courtney Johnson, led officers on a short chase in the stolen SUV before crashing into a couple of parked cars. He had gunshot wounds to his arm and abdomen when he was arrested.

The Avalos are back together as a family thanks to the actions of a lot of people who stepped in help. As for the SUV, they're ok if they don't get it back.

http://www.fox4news.com/news/witness-shoots-fort-worth-carjacking-suspect

by Original Quill Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:08 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Hmmm **thinking**...

Nine times outta ten they will misinterpret the situation and shoot the wrong person.

So 9 out of 10 defensive uses of guns results in the wrong person being shot?

That's a lie, and you know its a lie.

You're the one who chose anecdotal evidence. I'm just pointing out that for every one of your anecdotes, the gun wielder faces a hundred other possibilities. Yet, one shot and its fatal and final.

Given a field of infinite odds, 9 out of 10 is probably conservative.

by eddie Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:29 pm

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:You can post stories all day long Maddog. Bad things will still happen. But it’s time to be sensible. People are pissed off with seeing dead kids. Quite rightly too.

Yes I can post stories all day long of Americans using a firearm to defend themselves.

Think about that.

Which outweighs the deaths of many innocent people?

Can I just ask a serious question? Is it simply because you like guns that you defend guns?

by eddie Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:30 pm

Cass wrote:You can post stories all day long Maddog. Bad things will still happen. But it’s time to be sensible. People are pissed off with seeing dead kids. Quite rightly too.

Spot on.

by Cass Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:56 pm

eddie wrote:
Cass wrote:You can post stories all day long Maddog. Bad things will still happen. But it’s time to be sensible. People are pissed off with seeing dead kids. Quite rightly too.

Spot on.

Sort of near me last night, a 15 year old shot himself and died because they were playing Russian roulette!!!! It’s fucking crazy. I hate it.

by eddie Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:29 pm

Cass wrote:
eddie wrote:
Cass wrote:You can post stories all day long Maddog. Bad things will still happen. But it’s time to be sensible. People are pissed off with seeing dead kids. Quite rightly too.

Spot on.

Sort of near me last night, a 15 year old shot himself and died because they were playing Russian roulette!!!! It’s fucking crazy. I hate it.

That is just so sad. You’d think that kids that age would know better and that guns weren’t readily available for them to get hold of!

by Cass Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:33 pm

eddie wrote:
Cass wrote:

Sort of near me last night, a 15 year old shot himself and died because they were playing Russian roulette!!!! It’s fucking crazy. I hate it.

That is just so sad. You’d think that kids that age would know better and that guns weren’t readily available for them to get hold of!

Nah bro because it’s all good. It’s all about proving you’re well hard. Know what I mean? Because that is the kind of fucking culture that is in this country. It’s all good until you’re dead.

You see that’s the thing. Everybody is allegedly a responsible gun owner until something happens.

by eddie Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:48 pm

Cass wrote:
eddie wrote:
Cass wrote:

Sort of near me last night, a 15 year old shot himself and died because they were playing Russian roulette!!!! It’s fucking crazy. I hate it.

That is just so sad. You’d think that kids that age would know better and that guns weren’t readily available for them to get hold of!

Nah bro because it’s all good. It’s all about proving you’re well hard. Know what I mean? Because that is the kind of fucking culture that is in this country. It’s all good until you’re dead.

You see that’s the thing. Everybody is allegedly a responsible gun owner until something happens.

And life is so cheap. Apparently.

by Original Quill Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:01 pm

Forbes wrote:What We Talk About When We Talk About Gun Violence
Todd Essig , CONTRIBUTOR

America is gripped by an epidemic of gun violence unprecedented among industrialized nations. Such a claim should not be a surprise to anyone who reads the news. What might be a surprise is that gun violence, like a mass shooting, is contagious with the infection partly spread by the media. At least that’s according to a just published commentary by Paul Perrin in the American Psychologist.

Actual research into the causes and consequences of gun violence, and how to decrease it, is rare. In a national disgrace of know-nothingism, ever since 1996 the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has been prevented from funding research into gun violence. And without evidence politicians are free to posture and pander and make stuff up, not that there is a deep respect for science among many in positions of power. But last week a small group of Democratic Senators finally announced a plan to undue the ban on politicians knowing what they are talking about when they talk about gun violence.

No one knows for sure because of the research-funding ban but some researchers estimate “mass killings involving firearms with four or more people killed occur on average every 12.5 days in the U.S. … school shootings occur on average every 31.6 days.” That is much too common. Solutions are needed. And according to Dr. Perrin psychological science has something important to contribute.

Suicide contagion is well-established and is the model for what takes place with mass shootings. He writes, “media reports of suicide have consistently been shown to increase rates of suicide in individuals who are exposed them.” He cites a study showing how suicide rates increased following a celebrity suicide depending on the degree of access to newspaper accounts of that suicide. A research study published in July in PLOS One documented contagion also operates for mass killings and school shootings. The effect is temporary and lasts for about two weeks.

Clearly, the media needs to be sensitive to the very real possibility that how they cover one of these tragedies can increase the chances of another one taking place. Plus, in the absence of data showing these effects are limited to mass media and not social media, everyone should be careful about what we talk about when we talk about gun violence.

Not to sound like a broken record but more research clearly needs to be done, including getting into the details of how the contagion works. Hopefully, we will soon stop valuing knowing less. But until then we can turn to the 2008 World Health Organization publication “Preventing Suicide: A Resource for Media Professionals” for clues for how to proceed when dealing with the inevitable next school shooting or mass killing. And this should apply to social media as well as mass media.

Among the guidelines for how the media (social and mass) should cover suicide so as to avoid contagion are the following: educate about suicide; avoid language which sensationalizes or normalizes suicide, or presents it as a solution to problems; avoid prominent placement and undue repetition of stories about suicide; avoid explicit descriptions of methods and the site of the suicide or attempt; take particular care in reporting celebrity suicides; respect people bereaved by suicide; provide information about where to seek help; and recognize that media professionals themselves may be affected by stories about suicide. And as macabre as it is to say, just substitute mass killing or school shooting for suicide in the above suggestions.

Until we know more about what’s really going with gun violence in America, the least we can all do is try to keep it as contained as possible.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/toddessig/2016/01/31/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-gun-violence/#35ec457269dc

by Tommy Monk Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:40 pm

Cass wrote:Everything can be made into a weapon. A bottle of wine, a book, a piece of jewelry, a shoe, a car.

BUT they were designed to be used for a purpose that did not include injuring or killing anyone.

Guns were specifically designed to kill whether it be an animal or another human.

It’s that simple.

Time for the 2nd amendment to be repealed. We did it with owning other human beings but we can’t do it with objects that were designed to kill? How fucked up is that.

Again will bad things continue to happen? Yes. They happened way before guns were invented, since time began. It’s a fact of life.

The vast majority of countries show that everyday people living without access to guns live just fine. The US has been conditioned into fear by the very document that was part of the founding of our country.

Guns have never been designed for, or owned by any of the millions upon millions of responsible law abiding citizens in the US, for the intended purpose of going into a school and shooting up a load of students...!

If you think that removing guns from responsible law abiding citizens is going to stop a loon/criminal getting a gun, or using some alternative weapon/tool/vehicle to do something crazy, then you are a loon too!!!

In an ideal world there would be no loons, or crime... but there would still be guns for hunting/sport/pest control/recreational target practice at shooting ranges, as well as being bought/sold/possessed by collectors of antiques/militaria etc...

But in the real world... there is crime and there are loons... and removing guns from responsible law abiding citizens won't stop criminals or loons getting guns, or them just using other weapons...!!!

by Tommy Monk Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:06 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Your class A drugs comparison was worse...

My vehicle comparison was better...

If a loon can't get a gun... they could easily get a vehicle...

So by your logic, both should be removed from responsible law abiding citizens...?

The vehicle comparison fails on count of the fact that their purpose is entirely to provide an essential function in the modern world. The economy couldn't function in many places without many people being able to drive.

Guns are required by extremely few people. They are made FOR killing. So not exactly ideal to be put in reach of kids and headcases.

What about alcohol then...?

Very few requirements for it aside for the main production of it being for people to drink and get a bit merry/pissed...

Not really for kids (although they can drink it when under supervision of parent/guardian), and not ideal for it to be in reach of headcases...

Now... there are widespread and regular instances of pissed up twats causing serious harm/death to others every week across the UK...

So... by your logic... you think that alcohol should be removed from all responsible law abiding citizens...!?

by Maddog Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:30 pm

eddie wrote:
Cass wrote:

Sort of near me last night, a 15 year old shot himself and died because they were playing Russian roulette!!!! It’s fucking crazy. I hate it.

That is just so sad. You’d think that kids that age would know better and that guns weren’t readily available for them to get hold of!

They're eating Tide Pods for Christ's sake. Why would you think that?

by Maddog Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:33 pm

eddie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Yes I can post stories all day long of Americans using a firearm to defend themselves.

Think about that.

Which outweighs the deaths of many innocent people?

Can I just ask a serious question? Is it simply because you like guns that you defend guns?

Outweigh is perhaps the wrong word. What you have to do is take into account all of the positive uses of guns in the defense of innocent people. Weight the pros vs cons. As opposed to the cons and the cons.

I don't really like inanimate objects, and don't really consider myself a gun guy. What I am is extremely well informed on the topic, which precludes me from making emotional, kneejerk reactions.

by Tommy Monk Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:57 pm

eddie wrote:
Cass wrote:

Sort of near me last night, a 15 year old shot himself and died because they were playing Russian roulette!!!! It’s fucking crazy. I hate it.

That is just so sad. You’d think that kids that age would know better and that guns weren’t readily available for them to get hold of!

Here in UK... with heavy restrictions on guns... we have plenty of kids that age who have guns readily available to them... and who are readily willing to use these guns as part of their criminal activities... because as criminals, they still have access to guns, where responsible law abiding citizens do not...

You see... the heavy restrictions of guns on responsible law abiding citizens does not stop criminals getting/having/using guns... it just removes power from responsible law abiding citizens to be able to protect themselves against the threat of criminals who ignore the law and ignore the restrictions of guns...

When all responsible law abiding citizens have guns, then a criminal with a gun is a much lesser threat than when it is only the criminal who has a gun...!

What is the likelyhood of a criminal pulling out a gun to threaten anyone when faced with everyone else being able to pull out their own guns and being able to quickly blast him/her to pieces...?

Compared to situation where it is only the criminal who has a gun, and everyone else has nothing... because responsible law abiding citizens had all their guns removed from them, for reasons of preventing criminals getting guns and terrorising responsible law abiding citizens with their guns...!?

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:44 am

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Yes I can post stories all day long of Americans using a firearm to defend themselves.

Think about that.

Hmmm **thinking**...

Nine times outta ten they will misinterpret the situation and shoot the wrong person.

So 9 out of 10 defensive uses of guns results in the wrong person being shot?

That's a lie, and you know its a lie.

Nope that's true

Defensive shooters are more dangerous to themselves and the public than Armed robbers.
the NRA lies to you Wink

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:47 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
eddie wrote:
Cass wrote:

Sort of near me last night, a 15 year old shot himself and died because they were playing Russian roulette!!!! It’s fucking crazy. I hate it.

That is just so sad. You’d think that kids that age would know better and that guns weren’t readily available for them to get hold of!

Here in UK... with heavy restrictions on guns... we have plenty of kids that age who have guns readily available to them... and who are readily willing to use these guns as part of their criminal activities... because as criminals, they still have access to guns, where responsible law abiding citizens do not...

You see... the heavy restrictions of guns on responsible law abiding citizens does not stop criminals getting/having/using guns... it just removes power from responsible law abiding citizens to be able to protect themselves against the threat of criminals who ignore the law and ignore the restrictions of guns...

When all responsible law abiding citizens have guns, then a criminal with a gun is a much lesser threat than when it is only the criminal who has a gun...!

What is the likelyhood of a criminal pulling out a gun to threaten anyone when faced with everyone else being able to pull out their own guns and being able to quickly blast him/her to pieces...?

Compared to situation where it is only the criminal who has a gun, and everyone else has nothing... because responsible law abiding citizens had all their guns removed from them, for reasons of preventing criminals getting guns and terrorising responsible law abiding citizens with their guns...!?

I couldn't be bothered explaining it to you so listen to Jim

he explains why that's Bullshit
simple reality of Buying goods off the black market make that argument crap

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:50 am

Maddog wrote:
eddie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Yes I can post stories all day long of Americans using a firearm to defend themselves.

Think about that.

Which outweighs the deaths of many innocent people?

Can I just ask a serious question? Is it simply because you like guns that you defend guns?

Outweigh is perhaps the wrong word. What you have to do is take into account all of the positive uses of guns in the defense of innocent people. Weight the pros vs cons. As opposed to the cons and the cons.

I don't really like inanimate objects, and don't really consider myself a gun guy. What I am is extremely well informed on the topic, which precludes me from making emotional, kneejerk reactions.

LOLOLOL

We can post 10 times as many about American Shot when they wouldn't be in a civil nation

Show me your subscription to padlock monthly if your such as fan on security.

You answer the questions raised by jim too Cool

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:53 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Outweigh is perhaps the wrong word. What you have to do is take into account all of the positive uses of guns in the defense of innocent people. Weight the pros vs cons. As opposed to the cons and the cons.

I don't really like inanimate objects, and don't really consider myself a gun guy. What I am is extremely well informed on the topic, which precludes me from making emotional, kneejerk reactions.

LOLOLOL

We can post 10 times as many about American Shot when they wouldn't be in a civil nation

Show me your subscription to padlock monthly if your such as fan on security.

You answer the questions raised by jim too

SPRINGVILLE, Utah (AP) — A passer-by carrying a concealed pistol is being credited with stopping an attack on a police officer in central Utah.

Derek Meyer told FOX13 he was driving Friday afternoon in Springville when he saw a policeman scuffling with someone near a clothes donation bin.

Meyer turned his vehicle around, pulled over and pulled out his pistol.

He aimed the gun at the man assaulting the policeman and yelled at him to stop.

The suspect — identified as Paul Douglas Anderson of Spanish Fork— ran from the scene, but was later arrested.

Anderson was jailed on suspicion of assaulting a police officer, resisting arrest and other charges.

The unidentified policeman suffered a fractured eye socket and lacerations around his eye.

Springville police say Meyer's quick action helped save the officer's life.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/utah/articles/2018-02-04/pistol-packing-passer-by-aids-utah-policeman-being-assaulted

by 'Wolfie Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:05 am

Consider the statistics...

Whenever a hundred private US citizens discharge their legally owned firearms in an attempt to defend themselves, their homes or business, or as in this case to shoot a baddie attacking someone else, then :

In only about 2% of these incidents do they actually shoot the crim's they are aiming for..

They have 9 or 10 times the chance of shooting an innocemt person, whether a member of their own family, a neighbour or a bystander.

The remaining 80% +/-- of the time they will either miss altogether, shoot up some nearby furniture or vehicles, or many times even manage to shoot themselves !!!

************************************************

Foreign visitors to the USA actually have much more chance of being shot, than they have of being involved in motor vehicle accidents, earthquakes or tornadoes..

"Land of the free, home of the brave !" indeed.
Free to be shot by any passing nutter; brave to venture out their front doors..

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:09 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Consider the statistics...

Whenever a hundred private US citizens discharge their legally owned firearms in an attempt to defend themselves, their homes or business, or as in this case to shoot a baddie attacking someone else, then :

In only about 2% of these incidents do they actually shoot the crim's they are aiming for..

They have 9 or 10 times the chance of shooting an innocemt person, whether a member of their own family, a neighbour or a bystander.

The remaining 80% +/-- of the time they will either miss altogether, shoot up some nearby furniture or vehicles, or many times even manage to shoot themselves !

PHOENIX - The Phoenix Police Department says a business owner shot a robbery suspect and held him at gunpoint until police arrived.

The incident happened at a business near Greenway Road and Tatum Boulevard around 2:30 p.m. Friday.

Police say the injured suspect, and 28-year-old Brittany Reid, arrived at the store about an hour before it opened and waited in the parking lot for the owner to come.

They reportedly followed him into the store when the male suspect produced a handgun. The business owner ducked behind the counter and pulled his handgun, shooting the male suspect in the leg.

Police say the store has automatic locks on the door and customers must be buzzed in and out, preventing Reid from escaping.

The 30-year-old man was transported to the hospital with non-life-threatening injuries. The suspect has yet to be identified by police.

https://www.abc15.com/news/crime/update-business-owner-shoots-north-phoenix-robbery-suspect

He didn't miss. Wink

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:11 am

NEW ORLEANS -- Police say a 76-year-old woman shot and wounded a suspected burglar she found in her bedroom early Saturday morning.

The incident happened around 4 a.m. in the 1300 block of Esplanade Avenue.

According to the police's Major Offense Log and overnight press notifications, the victim said she was awakened by a loud noise and found a man armed with 'some type of object' in her bedroom. She fired a weapon and struck the suspect once. He was taken to the hospital via EMS. There was no immediate word on his condition.

http://www.wwltv.com/article/news/local/police-woman-shoots-burglar-in-her-bedroom-saturday-morning/503378311

Nor did she.

I guess the 76 year old woman should have used her ninja skills on the creep in her bedroom. Wink

by 'Wolfie Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:16 am

Maddog gives two or three examples of citizens shooting crim's...

That means there will have been 97 or 98 incidents where the shooter did miss..

Including where people have shot their own child, or a neighbour, or even shot themselves in the leg or foot when drawing their weapons.

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:16 am

A Brooklyn woman shot her ex-boyfriend in the neck Saturday when he tried to kick his way into her apartment, police sources said.

The 30-year-old man, identified by sources as Marlon Womack, stormed into his ex-girlfriend’s apartment building on Bristol St. near Blake Ave. in Brownsville at 6:13 p.m., cops said.

When Womack kicked open her door, he found the 52-year-old woman, who sources identified as Tonya Wooten, standing at the threshold with a handgun, police sources said.

Wooten pulled the trigger and hit Womack once in the neck, according to sources. Medics rushed him to Brookdale Hospital where he is in stable condition, police said.

Cops found Wooten’s .40 caliber handgun at the scene. She recently moved to the city from North Carolina. While the weapon was legal there, she did not have a New York permit yet, police sources said.

Womack allegedly has an extensive criminal history.

Wooten was taken into custody and charges were pending early Sunday, cops said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/brooklyn-woman-shoots-neck-kicked-door-article-1.3729315

This woman didn't miss either.

Of course she made the mistake of owning a handgun in NYC and got arrested.

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:17 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Maddog gives two or three examples of citizens shooting crim's...

That means there will have been 97 or 98 incidents where the shooter did miss..

Including where people have shot their own child, or a neighbour, or even shot themselves in the leg or foot when drawing their weapons.

I'm well over a dozen from that past month or two.

I could blow this forum up with them if I really wanted to.

It happens that often here. Cool

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:19 am

INDEPENDENCE, Mo. -- Police were called to the 3400 block of S. Appleton Ave., Thursday afternoon after a homeowner called to report he had shot an intruder in his home.

The suspect was taken to the hospital with injuries not considered serious. It happened shortly after noon Thursday at a home near Winner Rd., and Sterling Ave.

Independence Police spokesperson John Syme said no one at that address had been arrested or charged.

Fox 4's Sean McDowell spoke to neighbors who said there have been several break-ins in the neighborhood recently.

Fox 4 is working to get more details about the intruder. Be sure to also download the Fox 4 KC news app for alerts about this and other developing stories

http://fox4kc.com/2017/12/14/homeowner-in-independence-shoots-intruder/

He didn't miss either.............

by 'Wolfie Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:24 am

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Hmmm **thinking**...

Nine times outta ten they will misinterpret the situation and shoot the wrong person.

So 9 out of 10 defensive uses of guns results in the wrong person being shot?

That's a lie, and you know its a lie.

You're the one who's a lying piece of shit, DopeyDawg..

The actual statistic is that often only 2 or 3 of every hundred people shot in those situations will be the criminal that the shooter thought he/she was shooting.

There will be 9 or 10 innocents shot for every guilty crim'..

And much more chance of the shooter injuring themself !!!

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:25 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

So 9 out of 10 defensive uses of guns results in the wrong person being shot?

That's a lie, and you know its a lie.

You're the one who's a lying piece of shit, DopeyDawg..

The actual statistic is that often only 2 or 3 of every hundred people shot in those situations will be the criminal that the shooter thought he/she was shooting.

There will be 9 or 10 innocents shot for every guilty crim'..

And much more chance of the shooter injuring themself !!!

You need more????

BRB. Cool

by Maddog Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:27 am

ELKVIEW, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- Deputies say Charles Thomas was held at gunpoint by the owner of the home he was trying to burglarize Thursday night.

It happened at a home along Frame Road in Elkview. When deputies got to the home Thomas tried to run. Kanahwa County deputies caught him and charged him with breaking and entering.

It was also discovered he was wanted on outstanding warrants for similar crimes in Marion County.

While Thomas was being held by the homeowner he mentioned that there were four other people in the woods.

According to deputies Jessie Hall, 30, of Clendenin, is charged with arson after setting a jeep she previously owned on fire Thursday.

Brittany S. Greene, 23, of Loudendale, Krystal M. Smith, 22, of Charleston, and Dameon J. Forney, 40, of the Coopers Creek area of Kanawha County, are all charged with transferring and receiving stolen property.

Deputies say they had items stolen from a business in the Kanahwa State Forest area in their pockets.

http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Homeowner-holds-intruder-at-gunpoint--453758653.html

You upset they got caught Wolfie?

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