'Sacked' for opposing same-sex marriage

Teenager 'sacked' for opposing same-sex marriage speaks out

The teenager who claims to have been sacked over her Facebook post opposing same-sex marriage has spoken out, saying she did not "expect to lose her job."



Madeline, who has not revealed her last name, said she was sacked as a camerawoman from an entertainment business in Canberra after she put the slogan “it’s okay to vote no," on her Facebook profile picture.

The owner of children's entertainmet company, Madlin Sims, said she fired the staff member for being “homophobic” and she couldn’t have someone working for “posting hate speech online”.

"I definitely wasn't expecting to lose a job over that opinion," Madeline told 7 News.

"I used the one available profile photo filter which says it's ok to vote no," she said referring to her Facebook profile picture.

"My views are against the [same sex] marriage, but I don't hate anyone or discriminiate against anyone who believes otherwise."

The 18-year-old said she is considering taking legal action.

On Wednesday, a spokesperson for the Fair Work Ombudsman said they want to interview both Madeline and Ms Sims to "form an assessment as to whether any workplace laws have been breached," The Australian reported.

The spokesperson confirmed they would be attempting to get in contact with both parties, but said the ombudsman would not be able to do much if the teenager was a contract worker.

“To assert that voting 'no' is homophobic as claimed by the employer is demonstrably false and indicative of the unacceptable bullying and name-calling engaged in by the 'yes' campaign," Senator Eric Abetz said.

Opposition leader Bill Shorten said people should not be dismissed from their employment for having different views on marriage equality.

Madeline told Triple J’s Hack that while she believes in equality, she could not vote yes based on her Christian values.

“I have been raised a Christian my whole life and in the bible God clearly states that a man and a man, and a woman and a woman, are not to be together,” she said.

“I love everyone, I'm not a hateful person at all and I do believe everyone should have equality, but to vote yes to me is something I can't do.”


Ms Sims has since posted a statement on Instagram which says: "I have acknowledged my bigotry in this situation. I truly hope that my actions haven't impacted the campaign for equality."

Madeline told The Bolt Report on Tuesday night she did not deserve to lose her job over her opinion on same sex marriage.

“This is a democracy and we were given the options and asked as Australians to vote yes or no and it is my opinion to vote no,” she said.

"I don't think my job should be taken away from me just because I have an opinion that someone disagrees with."

Earlier, Ms Sims had posted in a Facebook post, which has been deleted, that she did not fire Madeline because of her views on marriage equality.

“She was let go because her actions showed she is extremely out and proud about her views on homosexuals,” she posted.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/a/37162958/teen-sacked-for-opposing-marriage-equality-speaks-out/

Why should she lose her job. It seems you are not allowed an opinion anymore on anything.

She has the right to say no if she feels that.

Stepford wives anyone?

Unless it can be proved that she's discriminated against a gay person at work, she will win her case.

Raggamuffin wrote:Unless it can be proved that she's discriminated against a gay person at work, she will win her case.

I agree, So if the claim is true. No matter that I disagree with her, she has a right to be against gay marriage.

Raggamuffin wrote:Unless it can be proved that she's discriminated against a gay person at work, she will win her case.

I'm not sure it always works like that.
I know someone who was sacked after a comment she made on Facebook was relayed to her boss.
She worked for the local council, and was told the view she posted wasn't the views that the local council upheld....so she was fired..

Why do people wrote stuff on Facebook and think they won't get heard by everyone?
Own what you say people!

eddie wrote:Why do people wrote stuff on Facebook and think they won't get heard by everyone?
Own what you say people!

She did, she just didn't expect to get sacked for it.

If someone was slating their company or posting pics of themselves on holiday when they're supposed to be ill, that would be a different matter.

Her boss has every right to sack her. Her company, her rules.

The concept of free speech is baffling for lots of people. She can say what she likes, within the country's laws, but it doesn't protect her from the consequences.

Cass wrote:Her boss has every right to sack her. Her company, her rules.

The concept of free speech is baffling for lots of people. She can say what she likes, within the country's laws, but it doesn't protect her from the consequences.

No... you are wrong...!


You can't sack someone for them just holding a different personal opinion about something...!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Cass wrote:Her boss has every right to sack her. Her company, her rules.

The concept of free speech is baffling for lots of people. She can say what she likes, within the country's laws, but it doesn't protect her from the consequences.

No... you are wrong...!

You can't sack someone for them just holding a different personal opinion about something...!!!

Actually you can, if you feel it brings harm to your working reputation and if you feel that it doesn't represent your company values.

The OP woman voiced support for current laws to remain in place, on her own personal facebook page...


She has done nothing wrong!

Tommy Monk wrote:The OP woman voiced support for current laws to remain in place, on her own personal facebook page...

She has done nothing wrong!

A firing is a civil matter, not a matter of criminal wrongdoing.  It's not even the government.  It's a private matter.

It's simply a matter of taste or judgment, not right or wrong. As Cass says, if a company feels you have done something detrimental to their image or reputation, they can simply sever your employment.

totally fair to sack her cause she posted it on social media

and it's not even sacking she was a contractor that will no longer be contracted by that company

And personal social media posts are used all the time to justify terminating someone's employment

Cass wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


No... you are wrong...!

You can't sack someone for them just holding a different personal opinion about something...!!!

Actually you can, if you feel it brings harm to your working reputation and if you feel that it doesn't represent your company values.

How is it bringing harm to the reputation of a company not being in agreement with same sex marriage?

The point is, whether the view is homophobic or prejudice?

Its not homophobic or prejudice.

I think you will  find the company is discriminating against the individual based on her beliefs, that do not conflict with prejudice against homosexuals. They would have to prove she actively discriminates against homosexuals within the workplace by not supporting same sex marriage.

The company stands to lose big in this instance.

veya_victaous wrote:totally fair to sack her cause she posted it on social media

and it's not even sacking she was a contractor that will no longer be contracted by that company

And personal social media posts are used all the time to justify terminating someone's employment

That's different then.

When will people learn?!
As Cass said, consequences?

so in that case its ok, as has happened and still happens in the bible belt of the good ole usa, to sake someone for being a pagan?

or for being L/W perhaps

or whatever?

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:The OP woman voiced support for current laws to remain in place, on her own personal facebook page...

She has done nothing wrong!

A firing is a civil matter, not a matter of criminal wrongdoing.  It's not even the government.  It's a private matter.

It's simply a matter of taste or judgment, not right or wrong.  As Cass says, if a company feels you have done something detrimental to their image or reputation, they can simply sever your employment.  

personal opinions are not a reason for dismissal

What next, the thought police sacking all those who don't agree with something.

She has the right to disagree with same sexed marriages, its her opinion, it shouldn't be forced upon her by firing her. It had nothing to do with her job.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Cass wrote:Her boss has every right to sack her. Her company, her rules.

The concept of free speech is baffling for lots of people. She can say what she likes, within the country's laws, but it doesn't protect her from the consequences.

No... you are wrong...!


You can't sack someone for them just holding a different personal opinion about something...!!!

You're an idiot,  Tommy...
That girl is in Canberra,   not your corner of merry ol' England..

That girl was actually sacked for bad attitude and being obnoxious --  not for any one post..

In many cases like hers, the bosses are only waiting for a troublemaker to take that "one step too far".I don't believe that she will have much "legal" recourse in this case..

smelly-bandit wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

A firing is a civil matter, not a matter of criminal wrongdoing.  It's not even the government.  It's a private matter.

It's simply a matter of taste or judgment, not right or wrong.  As Cass says, if a company feels you have done something detrimental to their image or reputation, they can simply sever your employment.  

personal opinions are not a reason for dismissal

Publicly-declared views can be a legitimate reason for dismissal if they might cast a bad light on your busineess, or if they're way out of line with policies, image and philosophy of your business..


You really are a clueless fucktard, Smelly'..

Miffs2 wrote:When will people learn?!
As Cass said, consequences?

There is no such thing as free speech really, as the woman who I know of found out when she was sacked.

I'm not on Twitter or facebook, but I suppose an open forum like this is similar.

Don't write anything you don't stand by, and if you do, be prepared for everyone...police, employer, the world and his wife to find out...and then face the consequences.

I'm torn on this.

Firstly, exercising free speech my way of giving an opinion on the internet is absolutely NOT something in itself anyone should lose their job for.

However, as Cass, wolfie, Quill and Miffs have all said, actions have consequences. If the company feels this view from an employee sheds a bad light on their company, it could (however slightly) be bad for business. So I understand their action from that position. Though that is a dangerous path to tread in the wider scheme of things.

If she is expressing a personal opinion only, even in public, that she can't agree with same sex marriage, I don't see the problem. If she expressed an opinion that people involved in same sex marriage should be attacked or killed I can see a problem. If she expressed her opinion in derogatory language towards anyone in a same sex marriage or relationship again there'd be a problem. It's coming to something when it seems you have to conform to current thinking or keep your opinions to yourself, even if you do no actual harm or incitement.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

personal opinions are not a reason for dismissal

Publicly-declared views can be a legitimate reason for dismissal if they might cast a bad light on your busineess,  or if they're way out of line with policies, image and philosophy of your business..


You really are a clueless fucktard, Smelly'..

so you would be happy with James Dyson firing an employee for publicly supporting the remain vote or for trumps business o fire employees for voting for Hillary??

good to know

So I could sack someone who supported homosexual marriage if I felt that could damage my business from all the people opposed to it...!?


Ok...

Tommy Monk wrote:So I could sack someone who supported homosexual marriage if I felt that could damage my business from all the people opposed to it...!?


Ok...

bingo

that's what this article is saying and what a lot of the forum are agreeing is legal

Smelly... I think you'll find they only agree with the logic and reasoning when it is sacking those who don't support homosexual marriage...


While they will be outraged if it was sacking a supporter of homosexual marriage for the exact same logic/reasoning...


It's more lefty 'quantum thinking' double standards in action...!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:Smelly... I think you'll find they only agree with the logic and reasoning when it is sacking those who don't support homosexual marriage...


While they will be outraged if it was sacking a supporter of homosexual marriage for the exact same logic/reasoning...


It's more lefty 'quantum thinking' double standards in action...!!!

oh yeah im well aware of their hypocrisy and double standards

smelly-bandit wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


Publicly-declared views can be a legitimate reason for dismissal if they might cast a bad light on your busineess,  or if they're way out of line with policies, image and philosophy of your business..


You really are a clueless fucktard, Smelly'..

so you would be happy with James Dyson firing an employee for publicly supporting the remain vote or for trumps business o fire employees for voting for Hillary??

good to know

Such a 'sacking' wouldn't be over the particular views that you hold,  but how you express them publicly, and how much of a prat you were behaving in public...

No-one can tall you what you are allowed to think and feel (unless you let them..),  but if you work in a business where you may deal with the public, or may be seen as part of the 'public face' of that company, or may be recognised by wearing company clothes, or if you're seen to be harassing your fellow workers through excessive preaching or proselytising, or you are silly enough as to badmouth your bosses through public media,  then the bosses may have quite legitimate grounds to dismiss you from their employment..

If you were working in a factory, or down a coal mine, or out in the boondocks, didn't deal with the public through your job, and weren't identified directly with the policies/philosophy of that business, you may well have a case for "unfair dismissal". However, once you are dealing with the public on behalf of that company, or can be seen as representing that company, everything changes..

Tommy Monk wrote:
Smelly... I think you'll find they only agree with the logic and reasoning when it is sacking those who don't support homosexual marriage...

While they will be outraged if it was sacking a supporter of homosexual marriage for the exact same logic/reasoning...

It's more lefty 'quantum thinking' double standards in action...!!!

".. lefty 'quantum thinking'..."

Do you even look at half the meaningless and plain silly nonsense you post,  Tommy  ???

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

so you would be happy with James Dyson firing an employee for publicly supporting the remain vote or for trumps business o fire employees for voting for Hillary??

good to know

Such a 'sacking' wouldn't be over the particular views that you hold,  but how you express them publicly, and how much of a prat you were behaving in public...

No-one can tall you what you are allowed to think and feel (unless you let them..),  but if you work in a business where you may deal with the public, or may be seen as part of the 'public face' of that company, or may be recognised by wearing company clothes, or if you're seen to be harassing your fellow workers through excessive preaching or proselytising, or you are silly enough as to badmouth your bosses through public media,  then the bosses may have quite legitimate grounds to dismiss you from their employment..

If you were working in a factory, or down a coal mine, or out in the boondocks, didn't deal with the public through your job, and weren't identified directly with the policies/philosophy of that business, you may well have a case for "unfair dismissal".   However, once you are dealing with the public on behalf of that company, or can be seen as representing that company, everything changes..

well thats not what happened is it??

this women posted it on her personal facebook page

Lord Foul wrote:so in that case its ok, as has happened and still happens in the bible belt of the good ole usa, to sake someone for being a pagan?

or for being L/W perhaps

or whatever?

No because it's against the law to fire you because you are a pagan, man, white, over 55 etc...(using you Vic as an example). She wasn't let go because of those reasons.

And as Veya said, which I forgot to mention, she was a contractor whose contract was cancelled.

Nowadays people need to think smart about whatvyoubpost up on social media, and that includes forums. Employers are doing very thorough background checks and monitor employee social media because they are ultimately going to protect themselves and their company.

No one was trying to stop this girl from saying what she did , she was not forcibly gagged or had her tongue cut out, and same for those neo-nazis who matlrched in Charlottesville but got their dumb asses fired because of it. Consequences. People really need to get educated on the actual laws and not just on their feelings of outrage.

Les- I agree to a certain extent about the slippery slope but when is enough enough?

smelly-bandit wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


Such a 'sacking' wouldn't be over the particular views that you hold,  but how you express them publicly, and how much of a prat you were behaving in public...

No-one can tall you what you are allowed to think and feel (unless you let them..),  but if you work in a business where you may deal with the public, or may be seen as part of the 'public face' of that company, or may be recognised by wearing company clothes, or if you're seen to be harassing your fellow workers through excessive preaching or proselytising, or you are silly enough as to badmouth your bosses through public media,  then the bosses may have quite legitimate grounds to dismiss you from their employment..

If you were working in a factory, or down a coal mine, or out in the boondocks, didn't deal with the public through your job, and weren't identified directly with the policies/philosophy of that business, you may well have a case for "unfair dismissal".   However, once you are dealing with the public on behalf of that company, or can be seen as representing that company, everything changes..

well thats not what happened is it??

this women posted it on her personal facebook page

If it was on her "personal" page, her boss shouldn't have been aware of it...

More likely she did what many clueless dolts have done before her, and left her settings on 'public' rather than friends only..

'Quantum thinking' - where a lefty holds two opposing ideas at the same time and believes both to be true. (Derived from quantum physics where a particle may exist and not exist at the same time, and where a particle's behavior changes depending on whether there is an observer or not.)

Cass wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:so in that case its ok, as has happened and still happens in the bible belt of the good ole usa, to sake someone for being a pagan?

or for being L/W perhaps

or whatever?

No because it's against the law to fire you because you are a pagan, man, white, over 55 etc...(using you Vic as an example). She wasn't let go because of those reasons.

And as Veya said, which I forgot to mention, she was a contractor whose contract was cancelled.

Nowadays people need to think smart about whatvyoubpost up on social media, and that includes forums. Employers are doing very thorough background checks and monitor employee social media because they are ultimately going to protect themselves and their company.

No one was trying to stop this girl from saying what she did , she was not forcibly gagged or had her tongue cut out, and same for those neo-nazis who matlrched in Charlottesville but got their dumb asses fired because of it. Consequences. People really need to get educated on the actual laws and not just on their feelings of outrage.

Les- I agree to a certain extent about the slippery slope but when is enough enough?

For me, its a case of what this suggests. Much as it pains me to have any agreement with what some individuals say, by setting a precedent like this, it would make it hard to justify not sacking someone who expressed support for same-sex marriage, if they used the same arguments. Although, in right minded places, that would be a pretty ridiculous think to imagine.

Thorin wrote:

Cass wrote:

Actually you can, if you feel it brings harm to your working reputation and if you feel that it doesn't represent your company values.

How is it bringing harm to the reputation of a company not being in agreement with same sex marriage?

The point is, whether the view is homophobic or prejudice?

Its not homophobic or prejudice.

I think you will  find the company is discriminating against the individual based on her beliefs, that do not conflict with prejudice against homosexuals. They would have to prove she actively discriminates against homosexuals within the workplace by not supporting same sex marriage.

The company stands to lose big in this instance.

You'll have to take that up with the company. Just as you can pick and choose your friends, they can pick and chose whom they contract-with/employee. They can even be wrong, if they so choose.

Lord Foul wrote:so in that case its ok, as has happened and still happens in the bible belt of the good ole usa, to sake someone for being a pagan?

or for being L/W perhaps

or whatever?

Indeed. There's an old saying in employment law: "You can fire for a right reason; you can fire for a wrong reason; you just can't fire for an illegal reason."

The law can intervene only in cases where an adverse employment action was taken for a prohibited reason, such as (in the US) race, sex, religion, national origin, age or disability.

This woman may have been terminated for the right reason; she may have been terminated for a wrong reason; but only if she can prove that she was terminated for an unlawful reason will she win her suit.

smelly-bandit wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

A firing is a civil matter, not a matter of criminal wrongdoing.  It's not even the government.  It's a private matter.

It's simply a matter of taste or judgment, not right or wrong.  As Cass says, if a company feels you have done something detrimental to their image or reputation, they can simply sever your employment.  

personal opinions are not a reason for dismissal

Anything can be a reason for a dismissal. It's the private sector and you can do anything you wish in the private sector, unless it has been specifically prohibited by law.

Court's do not get into the business of day-to-day running of businesses, unless a law has been written telling them to.

Syl wrote:

Miffs2 wrote:When will people learn?!
As Cass said, consequences?

There is no such thing as free speech really, as the woman who I know of found out when she was sacked.

I'm not on Twitter or facebook, but I suppose an open forum like this is similar.

Don't write anything you don't stand by, and if you do, be prepared for everyone...police, employer, the world and his wife to find out...and then face the consequences.

The concept of free speech is a political theme. Only the government is prohibited from inhibiting free speech.

In private or contractual matters, you can do anything you want. If you don't like something that someone says, you may quite lawfully unfriend them, or if they are an employee, fire them..

smelly-bandit wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


Publicly-declared views can be a legitimate reason for dismissal if they might cast a bad light on your busineess,  or if they're way out of line with policies, image and philosophy of your business..


You really are a clueless fucktard, Smelly'..

so you would be happy with James Dyson firing an employee for publicly supporting the remain vote or for trumps business o fire employees for voting for Hillary??

good to know

It's not a question of happiness. It's a question of fact. Wolf has not expressed a normative statement...he has just stated the reality of the situation.

Tommy Monk wrote:So I could sack someone who supported homosexual marriage if I felt that could damage my business from all the people opposed to it...!?

Ok...

No, that is an unlawful reason for termination. Remember, "You can fire for a right reason; you can fire for a wrong reason; you just can't fire for an illegal reason."

Original Quill wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

personal opinions are not a reason for dismissal

Anything can be a reason for a dismissal.  It's the private sector and you can do anything you wish in the private sector, unless it has been specifically prohibited by law.

Court's do not get into the business of day-to-day running of businesses, unless a law has been written telling them to.

Yeah any company can fire you for anything they want, but will ultimately face legal ramifications for it.

This isn't the day-to-day running of a business, this is an employee expressing a personal opinion on her personal Facebook page and being fired for it.

If she expressed support for gay marriage she wouldn't have been fired.

That's discrimination

Tommy Monk wrote:Smelly... I think you'll find they only agree with the logic and reasoning when it is sacking those who don't support homosexual marriage...


While they will be outraged if it was sacking a supporter of homosexual marriage for the exact same logic/reasoning...


It's more lefty 'quantum thinking' double standards in action...!!

Change the law if you don't like it.

Original Quill wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

so you would be happy with James Dyson firing an employee for publicly supporting the remain vote or for trumps business o fire employees for voting for Hillary??

good to know

It's not a question of happiness.  It's a question of fact.  Wolf has not expressed a normative statement...he has just stated the reality of the situation.

Tell me this Quill

Could a company opposed to gay marriage fire an employee for expressing support for gay marriage

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:So I could sack someone who supported homosexual marriage if I felt that could damage my business from all the people opposed to it...!?

Ok...

No, that is an unlawful reason for termination.  Remember, "You can fire for a right reason; you can fire for a wrong reason; you just can't fire for an illegal reason."

1. Get gun

2.load gun

3.point gun at foot

4.remove gun and load second barrel

5.point gun at foot.

6.pull both triggers

7.lose argument

Tommy Monk wrote:'Quantum thinking' - where a lefty holds two opposing ideas at the same time and believes both to be true. (Derived from quantum physics where a particle may exist and not exist at the same time, and where a particle's behavior changes depending on whether there is an observer or not.)

No, the uncertainty principle does not apply. If it's not unlawful, you may hire and/or fire whomever you like, for whatever reason. Remember: "You can fire for a right reason; you can fire for a wrong reason; you just can't fire for an illegal reason."

If you don't like a law--any law--run for the legislature and work to change that law. Like voting or not voting, whining that it's unfair generally means you didn't participate.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:So I could sack someone who supported homosexual marriage if I felt that could damage my business from all the people opposed to it...!?

Ok...

No, that is an unlawful reason for termination.  Remember, "You can fire for a right reason; you can fire for a wrong reason; you just can't fire for an illegal reason."

The woman was sacked for voicing her support for the law in Australia to remain as it is...


Is that a right/wrong or illegal reason...!?

smelly-bandit wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

No, that is an unlawful reason for termination.  Remember, "You can fire for a right reason; you can fire for a wrong reason; you just can't fire for an illegal reason."

1. Get gun

2.load gun

3.point gun at foot

4.remove gun and load second barrel

5.point gun at foot.

6.pull both triggers

7.lose argument

I understand your position. Whining that you just shot yourself in the foot is not the answer. There is a level of simplicity to reasoning that you do not yet grasp.

The formula is this: 1) find a relevant principle: eg, "You can fire for a right reason; you can fire for a wrong reason; you just can't fire for an illegal reason"; 2)
apply the principle to facts: is this a factual scenario that the law prohibits?; 3) come up with a solution: if not prohibited, go ahead and hire or fire the person.

Remember smells: Principle; Facts; Solution. Write it on the board a thousand times. If you don't acquire reason instinctively, you must spend time at it.