'Millions of Africans' will flood Europe unless it acts now, warns European chief, as Paris evacuates huge migrant camp

by Guest Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:52 pm

Europe is "underestimating" the scale and severity of the migration crisis and "millions of Africans" will flood the continent in the next five years unless urgent action is taken, a senior European official has warned. The dire prediction from Antonio Tajani, president of the European Parliament, came as Paris evacuated almost 3,000 migrants sleeping rough from a makeshift camp near the city centre - the 34th such evacuation in two years. In an interview with Il Messagero newspaper, Mr Tajani said there would be an exodus "of biblical proportions that would be impossible to stop if we don't confront the problem now".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/07/millions-africans-will-flood-europe-unless-acts-now-warns-european/

by Original Quill Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:04 pm

Wonderful! Africans are the greatest people, and they make great neighbors. Look forward to it.

by Victorismyhero Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:12 pm

there are it seems only two choices

Either we build walls and watch towers armed with 50 cal.

OR

we go in armed to the teeth , on a multinational level with literally 10 million men and gear , and remove the various ineffective/corrupt dictators that run these countries and then give the peoples of those lands the leg up they need to drag themselves into the 21st century in their own lands.

by Original Quill Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:15 pm

Lord Foul wrote:there are it seems only two choices

Either we build walls and watch towers armed with 50 cal.

OR

we go in armed to the teeth , on a multinational level with literally 10 million men and gear , and remove the various ineffective/corrupt dictators that run these countries and then give the peoples of those lands the leg up they need to drag themselves into the 21st century in their own lands.

Or nukes...I mean, if you want to destroy the world. Be practical. Much less expensive than bullets and soldiers.

by Original Quill Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:18 pm

Victor wrote:Either we build walls and watch towers armed with 50 cal.

Have you guys still got the plans for Hadrian's Wall?

'Millions of Africans' will flood Europe unless it acts now, warns European chief, as Paris evacuates huge migrant camp Hadrians-wall-castle-nick-milecastle?w=640&mode=none&scale=downscale&quality=60&anchor=middlecenter

'Millions of Africans' will flood Europe unless it acts now, warns European chief, as Paris evacuates huge migrant camp Hadrians-wall-castle-nick-milecastle?w=640&mode=none&scale=downscale&quality=60&anchor=middlecenter

A lot cheaper than starting from scratch. Ask Trump...you won't get the Mexicans to pay for it.

by Guest Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:20 pm

by Victorismyhero Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:28 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:there are it seems only two choices

Either we build walls and watch towers armed with 50 cal.

OR

we go in armed to the teeth , on a multinational level with literally 10 million men and gear , and remove the various ineffective/corrupt dictators that run these countries and then give the peoples of those lands the leg up they need to drag themselves into the 21st century in their own lands.

Or nukes...I mean, if you want to destroy the world. Be practical. Much less expensive than bullets and soldiers.

what part of this means war is inevitable dont you get...

europe, with the best will in the world cannot absorb the population of africa, and trying to would lead to a total breakdown of law and order, and therfore good sense dictates that they are best served by advancing them in their own place.

to do that requires the removal of certain obstacles to progress, the chief amongst which are the leaders of most of these nations....

by magica Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:43 pm

Original Quill wrote:Wonderful! Africans are the greatest people, and they make great neighbors. Look forward to it.

But you don't live in Europe Suspect

by Original Quill Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:43 pm

Vic wrote:europe, with the best will in the world cannot absorb the population of africa, and trying to would lead to a total breakdown of law and order, and therefore good sense dictates that they are best served by advancing them in their own place.

Y'all don't have quite the population density of India or China...

And if it gets really bad, they will have incentive to go elsewhere.

by Guest Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:Y'all don't have quite the population density of India or China...

And if it gets really bad, they will have incentive to go elsewhere.

But both China and India are over populated.

So how is creating more over population helping to other nations when there is boundless space in Africa?

by Victorismyhero Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:48 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Vic wrote:europe, with the best will in the world cannot absorb the population of africa, and trying to would lead to a total breakdown of law and order, and therefore good sense dictates that they are best served by advancing them in their own place.

Y'all don't have quite the population density of India or China...

And if it gets really bad, they will have incentive to go elsewhere.

true...nor do we want it either......

by Original Quill Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:52 pm

All I'm saying is they are wonderful neighbors. Like Canadians...

Maybe you guys shouldn't have such beautiful countries, yourselves. Perhaps if y'all move to Africa and made it as beautiful as Europe. 'Millions of Africans' will flood Europe unless it acts now, warns European chief, as Paris evacuates huge migrant camp 2190311264

'Millions of Africans' will flood Europe unless it acts now, warns European chief, as Paris evacuates huge migrant camp 2190311264

You guys seem to have the knack.

by Guest Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:57 pm

Original Quill wrote:All I'm saying is they are wonderful neighbors. Like Canadians...

Maybe you guys shouldn't have such beautiful countries, yourselves. Perhaps if y'all move to Africa and made it as beautiful as Europe.

Well the whole population could quite easily fit into the US, as its 35 million.
The same could not be said for the population of Africa into Europe, its 1.2 billion

Nobody has a problem with migration from Africa at sensible levels.
What we are seeing is not sensible and is creating countless logistical and security problems.

by Original Quill Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:03 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:All I'm saying is they are wonderful neighbors. Like Canadians...

Maybe you guys shouldn't have such beautiful countries, yourselves. Perhaps if y'all move to Africa and made it as beautiful as Europe.

Well the whole population could quite easily fit into the US, as its 35 million.
The same could not be said for the population of Africa into Europe, its 1.2 billion

Nobody has a problem with migration from Africa at sensible levels.
What we are seeing is not sensible and is creating countless logistical and security problems.

We already have a sizable population of African-Americans. That's how we know they are wonderful neighbors. Indeed, any of them that want to come here, they are welcome.

Haha...they won't be voting Russo-Republican, that's for sure. Laughing

by Guest Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:11 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Well the whole population could quite easily fit into the US, as its 35 million.
The same could not be said for the population of Africa into Europe, its 1.2 billion

Nobody has a problem with migration from Africa at sensible levels.
What we are seeing is not sensible and is creating countless logistical and security problems.

We already have a sizable population of African-Americans. That's how we know they are wonderful neighbors. Indeed, any of them that want to come here, they are welcome.

Haha...they won't be voting Russo-Republican, that's for sure.

Yes but your population of African Americans, was by slavery and not immigration Quill
I doubt those forced to leave would agree at the time about wanting to leave.
The problem is that by introducing more people from places that have real poverty and into areas of wealth. You are vastly increasing the levels of crime. I am not going off race here, as the same would apply to any racial group that suffers poverty. I dont mean that poverty itself causes crime, but that relative poverty causes crime.

For example, when you look at areas where many are on the same levels of wealth, then you find crime rates are lower. So in rich areas or middle income areas or just poor areas. Crime levels are low. When they are mixed or people within an area of different levels of wealth. Then the crime levels vastly increase. Hence the problem found more so in cities that have massive disparity in levels of wealth..

This is just one issue. The next is being able to find work for many of these people, let alone housing or social funding if they have no work. This can they cause and create anger at those who are born in that nation, no matter their ethnicity, being left out and placed at the back of the Que.

by Original Quill Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:14 pm

Thorin wrote:I doubt those forced to leave would agree at the time about wanting to leave.

Who said anything about leaving? We love our African-Americans, and intend to keep them.

We'd love to have more if they are willing to come here. Great people. Welcome...

by Guest Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:19 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:I doubt those forced to leave would agree at the time about wanting to leave.

Who said anything about leaving? We love our African-Americans, and intend to keep them.

We'd love to have more if they are willing to come here. Great people. Welcome...

We love all our multi ethnic groups in Britain, but that is not the point being made here is it Quill?

by Syl Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:24 pm

magica wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Wonderful! Africans are the greatest people, and they make great neighbors. Look forward to it.

But you don't live in Europe

Love the way he sidestepped your point. Laughing

by Guest Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:29 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

We already have a sizable population of African-Americans. That's how we know they are wonderful neighbors. Indeed, any of them that want to come here, they are welcome.

Haha...they won't be voting Russo-Republican, that's for sure.

Yes but your population of African Americans, was by slavery and not immigration Quill
I doubt those forced to leave would agree at the time about wanting to leave.
The problem is that by introducing more people from places that have real poverty and into areas of wealth. You are vastly increasing the levels of crime. I am not going off race here, as the same would apply to any racial group that suffers poverty. I dont mean that poverty itself causes crime, but that relative poverty causes crime.

For example, when you look at areas where many are on the same levels of wealth, then you find crime rates are lower. So in rich areas or middle income areas or just poor areas. Crime levels are low. When they are mixed or people within an area of different levels of wealth. Then the crime levels vastly increase. Hence the problem found more so in cities that have massive disparity in levels of wealth..

This is just one issue. The next is being able to find work for many of these people, let alone housing or social funding if they have no work. This can they cause and create anger at those who are born in that nation, no matter their ethnicity, being left out and placed at the back of the Que.

Sorry i would like to add one more point and like Victor says is about solving the conflicts going on there, but its not just that. Its about also tackling real poverty within Africa. The world needs to help many Africans get out of real poverty, of which there are many ways, education being a major key to this.Investment and creating more infrastructure, jobs and wealth for people. That is why many people are desperate to leave Africa, as its not just wars and oppression. Its about having a far better chance in life. Hence why the world has to do more to help Africa. Where many Africans suffer absolute poverty. You find the same problem with South America and those coming into the US. Where many people suffer real poverty. So then that if you increase the quality of life for people, then less people would need or want to leave. Which would then help bring about more stability in Africa and South America.

by Original Quill Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:03 pm

Syl wrote:
magica wrote:

But you don't live in Europe

Love the way he sidestepped your point.

I don't need his point. I'm offering everything he needs. We in the US are the wealthiest nation on earth. I live in a state that is the 5th-largest economy in the world. We have everything we need.

If the people in Africa are poor or unhappy, let them come here. Our African-Americans are like family. We'd welcome more of them.

by Guest Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:13 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

Love the way he sidestepped your point.

I don't need his point. I'm offering everything he needs. We in the US are the wealthiest nation on earth. I live in a state that is the 5th-largest economy in the world. We have everything we need.

If the people in Africa are poor or unhappy, let them come here. Our African-Americans are like family. We'd welcome more of them.

Which then leaves hundred of Millions of Africans in absolute poverty and does not resolve any of the problems in Africa. Again people should be moving to areas not because of desperation, but for something new, just as we see western people move to other nations

Case in point. California has low levels of crime and yet those levels of crime have risen by 10% in the last few years, just as immigration to the state has vastly increased also from countries with real poverty within South America. So all you are doing is moving the problem of poverty elsewhere and it creates a massive strain on the infrastructure of that area. So that then more relative poverty increases, so crime increases, just as we see in California. The reason that the US has had such a long history of high crimes rates is due to relative poverty. As there is in many places a massive disparity in wealth in places mainly cities.

Now again I have no problem with people coming to the US or anywhere, but when they are coming in huge numbers, from real poverty that they live with. Then you will only ever hope to achieve some better form of life for some, yet many will still struggle. Like I said, what is needed is to end conflicts and poverty within many of these nations, or this will continue to spiral out of control at the present levels of migrations. You dont resolve the problem of poverty, by moving a mass of this elsewhere. You look to resolve it at its root cause. Within the poor countries themselves.

So again everyone wants people to be welcome, but there are many causes and effects to large levels off migrations. You saw the very same thing happen in the late 19th and early 20th century in the US.

by HoratioTarr Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:28 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

Love the way he sidestepped your point.

I don't need his point. I'm offering everything he needs. We in the US are the wealthiest nation on earth. I live in a state that is the 5th-largest economy in the world. We have everything we need.

If the people in Africa are poor or unhappy, let them come here. Our African-Americans are like family. We'd welcome more of them.

You'd welcome them all with open arms yet Mexicans have to have a visa to get into the States, don't they? That hardly seems fair.

by Original Quill Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:30 pm

Thorin wrote:Which then leaves hundred of Millions of Africans in absolute poverty and does not resolve any of the problems in Africa. Again people should be moving to areas not because of desperation, but for something new, just as we see western people move to other nations

It's the best we can do. We can only share what we have, and that's a chance to live what we have.

America has always seen immigration as a piece of the wealth. We welcome the influx of people from various parts of the world. We have a wonderful relationship with African-Americans and would love to seem more of them come.

cheers

by Original Quill Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:34 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I don't need his point. I'm offering everything he needs. We in the US are the wealthiest nation on earth. I live in a state that is the 5th-largest economy in the world. We have everything we need.

If the people in Africa are poor or unhappy, let them come here. Our African-Americans are like family. We'd welcome more of them.

You'd welcome them all with open arms yet Mexicans have to have a visa to get into the States, don't they? That hardly seems fair.

Hispanics are a unique problem for Russo-Republicans. They are about to become the majority group in the US, and they all vote Democrat. That's the sole reason why the worm turns on immigration from the Russo-Republican POV.

Republicanism is a dying brand, and they are invoking disparate methods.

by Guest Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:36 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:Which then leaves hundred of Millions of Africans in absolute poverty and does not resolve any of the problems in Africa. Again people should be moving to areas not because of desperation, but for something new, just as we see western people move to other nations

It's the best we can do. We can only share what we have, and that's a chance to live what we have.

America has always seen immigration as a piece of the wealth. We welcome the influx of people from various parts of the world. We have a wonderful relationship with African-Americans and would love to seem more of them come.

It has created wealth and also countless inequality in wealth and vast levels of crime. Which has always generally spiked where there has been times of mass migrations. As again its relative poverty that continues to cause high crimes rates in the US. So its not just mass immigration that causes this. As when without mass immigration, you still have mass disparity of wealth within the US within countless cities. Though the crime levels have always been far worse when there is mass migrations that have many people come from real poverty. So again is not about a relationship with ethnic groups. As that is and has never the issue here. What is the problem is relative poverty of which gets vastly worse with mass immigration from areas of real poverty. Your history shows this many times over.

What always happens is many people are crammed into areas of cities into poor areas not that far from rich areas and the infrastructure is unable to keep pace with the numbers coming in. Leading to overcrowding. So this is not about ethnicity or races, but relative poverty and the ability to handle mass migrations. So I am happy for an ethnic group that comes to the UK, but those levels need and have to be controlled to a sensible level, but what is more important is that we actually tackle the problem of real poverty in places like Africa and South America. As then you bring about more stability and prosperity for millions of people.

by Original Quill Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:35 am

Thorin wrote:What is the problem is relative poverty of which gets vastly worse with mass immigration from areas of real poverty.

Thorin wrote:So this is not about ethnicity or races, but relative poverty and the ability to handle mass migrations. So I am happy for an ethnic group that comes to the UK, but those levels need and have to be controlled to a sensible level, but what is more important is that we actually tackle the problem of real poverty

Yes, I hate poverty too. It's so awful. It appears that capitalism is impotent when it comes to altering anything.

Marx tried something, but you see that basic laissez-faire selfishness and greed intervened. The vanguard simply turned their positions into permanent dictatorships...hence, Stalin, Mao and Castro.

Even if we were to simply give them stuff--like food and factories and infrastructure--you see that these dictators just take it all for themselves. That's not right.

by Guest Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:57 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:What is the problem is relative poverty of which gets vastly worse with mass immigration from areas of real poverty.

Thorin wrote:So this is not about ethnicity or races, but relative poverty and the ability to handle mass migrations. So I am happy for an ethnic group that comes to the UK, but those levels need and have to be controlled to a sensible level, but what is more important is that we actually tackle the problem of real poverty

Yes, I hate poverty too. It's so awful. It appears that capitalism is impotent when it comes to altering anything.

Marx tried something, but you see that basic laissez-faire selfishness and greed intervened. The vanguard simply turned their positions into permanent dictatorships...hence, Stalin, Mao and Castro.

Even if we were to simply give them stuff--like food and factories and infrastructure--you see that these dictators just take it all for themselves. That's not right.

Actually its got naff all to do with capitalism. As again you see lower levels of crime where the balance of wealth has less disparity. So the issue is where there is a huge disparity. We have already seen Satlin, Mao and Castro in action and that caused mass murders. So the problem is not Capitalism. As under Communism they simple lived in abject poverty and were used either as cannon fodder or worked to death for the good of the state. Through their own lives.

The problem with former Colonies is that they learn how we used to control them. An elite educated and running the system. That was not capitalism either. We have to do undo what was former colonial control and get rid of the despots in Africa to allow what we have in the west now. A Capitalist system, where all have the opportunity of education and can have the ability to better their lives.

So what is wrong with the US and why we continue to see so much crime there? Yet we do not see the same replicated in the UK? Well most of the mass migration we had was half from Europe. Whilst many had less than those in the UK. They were not in abject poverty. Those that came from say Pakistan were either educated or were poor. Those who came from real poverty are in the main still poor in the UK. The figures on those from Pakistan, Bangladesh ect, shows many are unemployed, claiming etc. Hence why the Uk never saw a massive spike in crimes. Most who came here were not in abject poverty. Though in the last few years, we have seen throughout Europe and the US crime increase, because many immigrants are coming from real poverty.

So Capitalism is not the problem massive wealth disparity is.

by Original Quill Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:16 am

Thorin wrote:Actually its got naff all to do with capitalism. As again you see lower levels of crime where the balance of wealth has less disparity. So the issue is where there is a huge disparity.

What is the UK going to do about this massive spike in crime throughout the world? I'd love to hear about it, identify it, and watch it so that we may keep track of its progress.

That said, you were on about poverty a bit ago. I haven't yet heard your answer(s) to that problem, either. If we are against immigration, we can't build infrastructure for them, we can't give factories, nor food, nor medicines, and the governments flat out steal money we give them, what is the UK program to improve world-wide poverty?

by Guest Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:46 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:Actually its got naff all to do with capitalism. As again you see lower levels of crime where the balance of wealth has less disparity. So the issue is where there is a huge disparity.

What is the UK going to do about this massive spike in crime throughout the world? I'd love to hear about it, identify it, and watch it so that we may keep track of its progress.

That said, you were on about poverty a bit ago. I haven't yet heard your answer(s) to that problem, either. If we are against immigration, we can't build infrastructure for them, we can't give factories, nor food, nor medicines, and the governments flat out steal money we give them, what is the UK program to improve world-wide poverty?

Again showing clearly you are not reading what I have said.
I never said the UK has had a massive spike in crime, showing again you clearly have not read or understood any point I made

Its clear what to do, as I have already provided the answers to this very question

What did I say was the core problem and how to tackle this?

Stop wasting my time with poor replies because you have not the decency to even bother reading my replies, as seen by the poor replies above.

by Original Quill Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:56 am

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

What is the UK going to do about this massive spike in crime throughout the world? I'd love to hear about it, identify it, and watch it so that we may keep track of its progress.

That said, you were on about poverty a bit ago. I haven't yet heard your answer(s) to that problem, either. If we are against immigration, we can't build infrastructure for them, we can't give factories, nor food, nor medicines, and the governments flat out steal money we give them, what is the UK program to improve world-wide poverty?

Again showing clearly you are not reading what I have said.
I never said the UK has had a massive spike in crime, showing again you clearly have not read or understood any point I made

Nor have I.

Thorin wrote:Its clear what to do, as I have already provided the answers to this very question

I haven't found it. Where was it?

Thorin wrote:What did I say was the core problem and how to tackle this?

You mentioned poverty, but that can't be it because that was where we started. Somehow crime was in there as well. Are you saying that crime causes poverty, or poverty causes crime? You don't write very clearly.

You see what happens if I don't clarify/filter your posts, as well as give my answers?

I'll go back to interpreting your posts to have them make some sense. Let this be a lesson to you.

by Guest Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:01 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Again showing clearly you are not reading what I have said.
I never said the UK has had a massive spike in crime, showing again you clearly have not read or understood any point I made

Nor have I.

Thorin wrote:Yes you did, as i never said throughout the world, your words, not mine

I haven't found it. Where was it?

Thorin wrote:as seen read back

You mentioned poverty, but that can't be it because that was where we started.
Thorin wrote:I made a major point on relative poverty and real poverty where people come from
Somehow crime was in there as well.
Thorin wrote:Crime was in there and gave times in history of mass immigration when it has been higher
Are you saying that crime causes poverty, or poverty causes crime? You don't write very clearly.
Thorin wrote:Another sign you have not read my posts, when I said it very clearly that relative poverty does

You see what happens if I don't clarify/filter your posts, as well as give my answers?
Thorin wrote:I see what happens when you waste my time by not reading what I have already told you

I'll go back to interpreting your posts to have them make some sense. Let this be a lesson to you.

I will continue to point out how false the above is, as anyone could easily understand and read what I have told you and see that you never did

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:47 am

Wouldn't it be a bit silly for everyone to move to another country? There would be a huge continent with loads of space just going spare. Obviously, if the climate isn't suitable for human habitation, that's different, but it's better to sort out the situation rather than just leave.

by 'Wolfie Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:29 am

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Y'all don't have quite the population density of India or China...

And if it gets really bad, they will have incentive to go elsewhere.

But both China and India are over populated.

So how is creating more over population helping to other nations when there is boundless space in Africa?

Africa certainly has plenty of room...

However, they are seriously lacking in several critical areas :
Trees

Fresh, "potable" water supplies

Ready Access to sufficient agricultural lands

Adequate welfare, education and healthcare

Enough employment opportunities..

by Guest Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:50 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Thorin wrote:

But both China and India are over populated.

So how is creating more over population helping to other nations when there is boundless space in Africa?

Africa certainly has plenty of room...

However, they are seriously lacking in several critical areas :
Trees

Fresh, "potable" water supplies

Ready Access to sufficient agricultural lands

Adequate welfare, education and healthcare

Enough employment opportunities..

But have the future capacity to be the bread basket of the world.

http://www.africa-business.com/features/land-in-africa.html

Which is my point Wolf. That what needs to be done is to get many people out of poverty in Africa and South America etc. They need greater access to education, infrastructure, jobs, health care etc.

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:20 am

These are the reasons given for people leaving Africa:

"Population growth, climate change, desertification, wars, famine in Somalia and Sudan. These are the factors that are forcing people to leave.

So if there are famines and desertification, how come the population is rising? If you're starving, it's a bit weird to have children who are also going to starve. They need to find the areas which are habitable and sort it out. If it's "poverty", well that's all relative, and if they want to come to Europe so they can have a nice car, house, and spend their time going to restaurants, they should think about what's really important.

by nicko Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:20 pm

I see pictures on TV of these starving people, "Not been any rain for years" says the reporter, no rain for years, then they show pictures of starving babies. Starving they may be, so why do they keep "knocking" babies out when they know they can't feed them? Condoms and birth pills could help.

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:38 pm

Africa is a vast continent with the vast majority of that being lush green vegetation and full of natural resources...

Let them look after their own!

by Guest Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:39 pm

nicko wrote:I see pictures on TV of these starving people, "Not been any rain for years" says the reporter, no rain for years, then they show pictures of starving babies. Starving they may be, so why do they keep "knocking" babies out when they know they can't feed them? Condoms and birth pills could help.

Its not a crime to bring life into this world Nicko. What is wrong is that a nation does not provide education,health care and jobs, giving them the proper chance in life they need. Part of this problem is the Catholic Church with them being anti-birth control, but are you seriously saying that people should stop expressing their love for each other by having sex? What would you say if someone said you were banned from having sex? I am sure you would tell them to fuck off. So don't blame the people for what is not their fault. You were lucky enough to be born onto a nation where you never faced any hardship that many of these people suffer. Just when I say to the likes of Sassy to try living in your shoes when you have been in combat, try attempting to live in theirs.

by Original Quill Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:49 pm

Thorin wrote:Which is my point Wolf. That what needs to be done is to get many people out of poverty in Africa and South America etc. They need greater access to education, infrastructure, jobs, health care etc.

How does one accomplish this? Isn't that what the UN, the Clinton Foundation and WHO are trying to do? It appears to have been a failure...or is that wrong?

by Guest Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:57 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Africa is a vast continent with the vast majority of that being lush green vegetation and full of natural resources...

Let them look after their own!

How about this nation took a leaf out of your book and people just looked after their friends and family? How long do you think you would survive without the collective help of a people? You just placed imaginary boundaries on who to help Tommy. When you, just as I was born into a nation, that was only advanced off a few innovative people throughout history. Who unlike decided to share that knowledge and not selfishly keep it to themselves. One of the main reasons that Africa is in the state it is, was by how many European nations exploited the continent for their own needs and not that off the indigenous population. We have seen the same in Australia to the Americas. It provided great wealth to the Europeans. Where even then it was the elite of society that benefited off this. Most people have a limited knowledge and its only collectively how a society ends up prosperous. You are just lucky that you have been born into a society that looks to care for all its citizens. What you fail to grasp. Is that if we help create what we have in the west, then we then help eradicate many of the problems. By saying for them to look after themselves, only means the cycle of people fleeing the continent will continue. If you want mass immigration to slowed down to a sensible level. Then you look to the causes of why many leave. As your above reasons just enables the same mass migration to continue.

by Guest Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:58 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:Which is my point Wolf. That what needs to be done is to get many people out of poverty in Africa and South America etc. They need greater access to education, infrastructure, jobs, health care etc.

How does one accomplish this? Isn't that what the UN, the Clinton Foundation and WHO are trying to do? It appears to have been a failure...or is that wrong?

And why do you think its a failure Quill?

Because we keep propping up authoritarian leaders and human right abusers in power

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:01 pm

No... they must do things for themselves...

by Guest Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:04 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:No... they must do things for themselves...

But the world does not function that way Tommy

How would you medically help yourself without doctors?

How do you think the global economy works?
Maintaining the poverty, conflicts etc, just ensure the problem of immigration continues. Your view of not getting involved in Syria is flawed. Yet its because we never got boots on the ground, we have now seen the worst refugee crisis in years. So your view that they look after themselves just perpetuates this problem.

by Original Quill Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:20 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

How does one accomplish this? Isn't that what the UN, the Clinton Foundation and WHO are trying to do? It appears to have been a failure...or is that wrong?

And why do you think its a failure Quill?

Because we keep propping up authoritarian leaders and human right abusers in power

What does that mean? Which nations?

Do you mean our pumping aid into those countries is "propping up authoritarian leaders?" Should we stop giving aid there?

Or do you mean something more nefarious? Are MI6 and the CIA carrying out assassinations to strategically prop up authoritarians nations? Are Britain and the US financing suppression wars? Where? Fill us in.

by Guest Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:29 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:

And why do you think its a failure Quill?

Because we keep propping up authoritarian leaders and human right abusers in power

What does that mean? Which nations?

Do you mean our pumping aid into those countries is "propping up authoritarian leaders?" Should we stop giving aid there?

Or do you mean something more nefarious? Are MI6 and the CIA carrying out assassinations to strategically prop up authoritarians nations? Are Britain and the US financing suppression wars? Where? Fill us in.

Pumping aid is not beneficial, providing educating is far more important. As it provides the very tools that people need to prosper in life. Just as you had when you were born into a system you did nothing to provide for. So if without the education system in the US or any books, would you understand law for example? Of course not. So one of the major keys is not sending countless money of aid into Governments in the hope they will distribute this, but for the UN to do what it was set up to do. By providing the means for all to be educated. This is the first stepping stone. As you are providing the very means in how people can know how to learn what it takes to have jobs, health care and prosperity.

So sending aid to authoritarian governments is pointless. Take the case of Arafat who robbed millions from the Palestinians. What is needed is that that money goes to groups who actually provide the very fabric structures or that society to succeed and prosper

Sometimes you really bore me with your inane drivel about your paranoia about the CIA and MI5. Sorry but you are just some ordinary Joe bloggs on a forum without the first clue or understanding of the intelligence service and neither have I. All we both know is what we come to believe from the media.

Now throughout this debate you have failed to read and understand many points I have made.
So I am placing you out of my conversation, because you simply are not up to the task
Maybe you can find someone else who will pander to your needs on this

Good luck

by Original Quill Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:51 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

What does that mean? Which nations?

Do you mean our pumping aid into those countries is "propping up authoritarian leaders?" Should we stop giving aid there?

Or do you mean something more nefarious? Are MI6 and the CIA carrying out assassinations to strategically prop up authoritarians nations? Are Britain and the US financing suppression wars? Where? Fill us in.

Pumping aid is not beneficial, providing educating is far more important. As it provides the very tools that people need to prosper in life. Just as you had when you were born into a system you did nothing to provide for. So if without the education system in the US or any books, would you understand law for example? Of course not. So one of the major keys is not sending countless money of aid into Governments in the hope they will distribute this, but for the UN to do what it was set up to do. By providing the means for all to be educated. This is the first stepping stone. As you are providing the very means in how people can know how to learn what it takes to have jobs, health care and prosperity.

Ok, so one answer is the UN providing education. But the UN has been around since 1949. Isn't it doing anything yet?

Thorin wrote:So sending aid to authoritarian governments is pointless. Take the case of Arafat who robbed millions from the Palestinians. What is needed is that that money goes to groups who actually provide the very fabric structures or that society to succeed and prosper

Other than the UN, do you have any such groups in mind?

Thorin wrote:Sometimes you really bore me with your inane drivel about your paranoia about the CIA and MI5. Sorry but you are just some ordinary Joe bloggs on a forum without the first clue or understanding of the intelligence service and neither have I. All we both know is what we come to believe from the media.

I was suggesting that those might be your ideas. I know of no such involvement of the CIA ort MI6, but it's not my thesis to answer for. It's yours.

Thorin wrote:Now throughout this debate you have failed to read and understand many points I have made.
So I am placing you out of my conversation, because you simply are not up to the task
Maybe you can find someone else who will pander to your needs on this

Good luck

In the words of Martin Luther King:

Free at last! Free at last!
Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!

Razz

by Guest Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:59 pm

I dont think Martin Luther king ever said he was free at last, to then be an idiot as you are being now Quill, as he was intelligent. You are not acting intelligent here.

He already was free, what he wanted was civil rights and stated as follows:

I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

Hence i do not judge you Quill on your skin colour, but on the content of your poor quality posts throughout on this debate and even more for making a mockery of this debate.

Like i said, because you were very silly ignoring many points i made throughout on this debate and never bothering to read them, as I easily showed you never did. Where by you continued to ask questions, to points I had already answered. Showed this was not even a debate for you, but about point scoring. Hence on this thread you need to find someone else who might play to your silly games.

On that I wish you luck

by Original Quill Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:02 pm

Thorin wrote:I dont think Martin Luther king ever said he was free at last, to then be an idiot as you are being now Quill, as he was intelligent. You are not acting intelligent here.

Now, now. I know it's frustrating...you can't think of any more than the UN, but try to be civil.

by Guest Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:05 pm

Thorin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Africa is a vast continent with the vast majority of that being lush green vegetation and full of natural resources...

Let them look after their own!

How about this nation took a leaf out of your book and people just looked after their friends and family? How long do you think you would survive without the collective help of a people? You just placed imaginary boundaries on who to help Tommy. When you, just as I was born into a nation, that was only advanced off a few innovative people throughout history. Who unlike decided to share that knowledge and not selfishly keep it to themselves. One of the main reasons that Africa is in the state it is, was by how many European nations exploited the continent for their own needs and not that off the indigenous population. We have seen the same in Australia to the Americas. It provided great wealth to the Europeans. Where even then it was the elite of society that benefited off this. Most people have a limited knowledge and its only collectively how a society ends up prosperous. You are just lucky that you have been born into a society that looks to care for all its citizens. What you fail to grasp. Is that if we help create what we have in the west, then we then help eradicate many of the problems. By saying for them to look after themselves, only means the cycle of people fleeing the continent will continue. If you want mass immigration to slowed down to a sensible level. Then you look to the causes of why many leave. As your above reasons just enables the same mass migration to continue.

But the world does not function that way Tommy

How would you medically help yourself without doctors?

How do you think the global economy works?
Maintaining the poverty, conflicts etc, just ensure the problem of immigration continues. Your view of not getting involved in Syria is flawed. Yet its because we never got boots on the ground, we have now seen the worst refugee crisis in years. So your view that they look after themselves just perpetuates this problem.

To get the debate back on track

by Fred Moletrousers Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:34 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Victor wrote:Either we build walls and watch towers armed with 50 cal.

Have you guys still got the plans for Hadrian's Wall?

A lot cheaper than starting from scratch. Ask Trump...you won't get the Mexicans to pay for it.

Yeah, we still got 'em. Problem is, it didn't work then - and it wouldn't work now.

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