Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

First topic message reminder :

Police will consider manslaughter charges as part of the investigation into the Grenfell Tower blaze, which left at least 79 people dead. Scotland Yard said on Friday that the fire started in a faulty fridge and that insulation and tiles on the block failed safety tests. Nine out of the 79 dead or presumed dead have been formally identified, police said.

Metropolitan Police Detective Superintendent Fiona McCormack said: “I know there is a fear that that number is a lot higher and I do not want any hidden victims of this tragedy.”

Police said they are still trying to establish who was in the 24-storey tower block the night the fire broke out last Wednesday. DSI McCormack confirmed that neither the police, nor the Home Office, will use the tragedy to check the immigration status of anybody in the block and urged friends and relatives of those feared missing to come forward.

The search of the Lancaster West Estate high-rise could take until the end of the year.

Police said there are currently more than 250 specialist investigators working on “all aspects” of the investigation.

“The terrible reality is we may not find or identify all those who died in the fire,” DSI McCormack added.


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/grenfell-tower-tiles-failed-safety-tests-met-police-say_uk_594cdc45e4b0da2c731ad593?utm_hp_ref=uk&utm_hp_ref=uk

magica wrote:Also he's not Somalian he's Ethiopean and could be Christian, many are.

My mistake, please tell that to the Muslim haters on the web, who blame him, as a terrorist

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Nobody said anything about him being Somalian or being a terrorist. You're the one who's banging on about that Didge, and assuming he's a Muslim. People are merely questioning what exactly he did when his fridge caught fire.

What I don't get is how the fire could have started again after it had been put out, or how the fire officers could have missed that. Furthermore, they were then on the spot to deal with a fire which was four storeys up on the outside. I'm not sure I believe that bit.

Are they questioning Rags?

magica wrote:Of course the material used was wrong, the fridge manufactures are answerable too, but so is he for leaving a building on fire, not raising the alarm, and leaving people to die.

I have read views on the web and by the media, where some of the media have blamed him

I never claimed any here did go off him being Muslim or Somalian but am going off what is being said around the web. So I decided to make my point on this and never pointed the finger at any poster did I, on that post?

Okay Rags, have you ever had any fire safety training?

Because if you have, one of the first things you will understand is how fires can easily restart, even after putting them out. What happened here was how the cladding ignited.

Yes, I've had fire safety training, but the fire service was present and they would have made absolutely sure that the fire hadn't spread - it's their job.

Magica is perfectly entitled to her opinion re the chap whose fridge caught fire.

Thorin wrote:

magica wrote:Also he's not Somalian he's Ethiopean and could be Christian, many are.

My mistake, please tell that to the Muslim haters on the web, who blame him, as a terrorist

Why don't you tell them yourself?

magica wrote:Also he's not Somalian he's Ethiopean and could be Christian, many are.

I read he is Ethiopian too Mags.....my original point (which has been twisted beyond measure) was that the man should never have been named in the papers.

What the hell has his religion or place of birth got to do with this debate for Gods sake....I think someone is deliberately twisting whats been said here.

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Wow, you are being as guilt y as wolf now Syl, after I told him off for fueling the flames of this fire.

Do you now see how fires reignite?

I know how fires reignite Thor...and it takes less than 2 minutes for an appliance like this one to start an uncontrollable Kitchen fire, especially if there are no sprinklers or extinguishers to deal with the initial flames.

No, I am talking about you reignite fires by looking to other posters Syl to attack someone else

I told off wolf for this and now I am telling off you

I respect you both

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

My mistake, please tell that to the Muslim haters on the web, who blame him, as a terrorist

Why don't you tell them yourself?

I have Rags

This is not the only place I post on

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:

Ignore him Mags...he just has a list of posters he tries to include in every post he makes to try to cause ill feeling.

If people read the initial reports of how the fire started, it was a neighbour of his who first mentioned the man had packed his bags before alerting anyone to the fire.
Obviously the man had no idea the fire would cause such devastation and loss of life....but the fact he packed first then fled is the reason I know people were angry.

If there were no sprinklers or fire extinguishers to hand (and reports say there was not) even if he had phoned the fire service immediately it seems it wouldn't have made any difference to the outcome.

Also the advice given was for people to stay in their apartments and block the door frames...the people who ignored this advice were the ones who had a chance to get out.

The responsibility for this disaster lies firmly with the makers of the fridge and the people who allowed cheaper inferior materials known to be a fire hazard  to be used in the refurb of the flats.

Wow, you are being as guilt y as wolf now Syl, after I told him off for fueling the flames of this fire.

Do you now see how fires reignite?

No she's not. Wolfman lied.

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:

I know how fires reignite Thor...and it takes less than 2 minutes for an appliance like this one to start an uncontrollable Kitchen fire, especially if there are no sprinklers or extinguishers to deal with the initial flames.

No, I am talking about you reignite fires by looking  to other posters Syl to attack someone else

I told off wolf for this and now I am telling off you

I respect you both

Why is it your place to tell anyone off?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Are they questioning Rags?



I have read views on the web and by the media, where some of the media have blamed him

I never claimed any here did go off him being Muslim or Somalian but am going off what is being said around the web. So I decided to make my point on this and never pointed the finger at any poster did I, on that post?

Okay Rags, have you ever had any fire safety training?

Because if you have, one of the first things you will understand is how fires can easily restart, even after putting them out. What happened here was how the cladding ignited.

Yes, I've had fire safety training, but the fire service was present and they would have made absolutely sure that the fire hadn't spread - it's their job.

Magica is perfectly entitled to her opinion re the chap whose fridge caught fire.

You have had fire training?

Really and you do not know how fires can reignite?

Seriously?

Who was training you?

Thorin wrote:

magica wrote:

Why didn't he alert the fire services and the residents then. That's what I'm blaming him for not for having the fridge. He only told one resident.

There are 127 flats Magica, why would he need to warn them all?

Did you not read the link I posted twice for, where witnesses state he did warn people, more to the fact they are now alive because he warned them. More to the fact the fire brigade were able to originally put out the fire in his flat? If the fire brigade had managed to control and put out the fire, why would anyone leave? They were leaving themselves until they saw that the fire had spread outside. Again you are looking at this in poor hindsight and not understanding the facts. It was the cladding that ignited and spread the fire, which was way after he the fire emergency services had attended. So why again  are you looking to castigate the man where the fire started?

I didn't realise the firebrigade was there when  it spread. So ok, you're right. I do think though he left without letting others know.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, I've had fire safety training, but the fire service was present and they would have made absolutely sure that the fire hadn't spread - it's their job.

Magica is perfectly entitled to her opinion re the chap whose fridge caught fire.

You have had fire training?

Really and you do not know how fires can reignite?

Seriously?

Who was training you?

As I said, the fire service are more trained to look out for that sort of thing - don't you think?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

No, I am talking about you reignite fires by looking  to other posters Syl to attack someone else

I told off wolf for this and now I am telling off you

I respect you both

Why is it your place to tell anyone off?

Because I know both of them respect me, just as much as I do not mind if they do to me, as i respect them

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Why is it your place to tell anyone off?

Because I know both of them respect me, just as much as I do not mind if they do to me, as i respect them

So what if they respect you? It's still not your place to go around telling everyone off on here, especially for things they said about someone else, unless it was beyond the pale.

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:

I know how fires reignite Thor...and it takes less than 2 minutes for an appliance like this one to start an uncontrollable Kitchen fire, especially if there are no sprinklers or extinguishers to deal with the initial flames.

No, I am talking about you reignite fires by looking  to other posters Syl to attack someone else

I told off wolf for this and now I am telling off you

I respect you both

Thank you.
However I am entitled to warn Mags who is relatively new here to ignore the forum troll if I so choose.

Can we please get back to the debate now, which was interesting before Wolf tried to disrupt it by using his usual method.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

You have had fire training?

Really and you do not know how fires can reignite?

Seriously?

Who was training you?

As I said, the fire service are more trained to look out for that sort of thing - don't you think?

But its clear you were never trained by them, or had a clown teach you fire training Rags.

No offense, when fire officers teach they always warn how fires reignite and yet you did not know that.

So either you had coco the clown teach you or you never have had fire training

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:

No, I am talking about you reignite fires by looking  to other posters Syl to attack someone else

I told off wolf for this and now I am telling off you

I respect you both

Thank you.
However I am entitled to warn Mags who is relatively new here to ignore the forum troll if I so choose.

Can we please get back to the debate now, which was interesting before Wolf tried to disrupt it by using his usual method.

He did stop after I spoke out Syl.

You are right to get back to the debate, sorry

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

As I said, the fire service are more trained to look out for that sort of thing - don't you think?

But its clear you were never trained by them, or had a clown teach you fire training Rags.

No offense, when fire officers teach they always warn how fires reignite and yet you did not know that.

So either you had coco the clown teach you or you never have had fire training

Well if they had trained me and told me that fires can reignite, they would have looked out for that kind of thing, yes?

I have to know about fire regulations and what to do in the fire because of work, so shut your mouth and get off your high horse.

Thorin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Exactly what I'm thinking, too: chase this guy down his rabbit hole and leave all other concerns behind.  I suppose focusing on one individual increases the drama in the script--if he's Muslim, all the richer--but does anyone care that 79 people died, and that the same cladding is found on 27 other towers?

Someone has hired a good PR firm: look over there, don't look over here.

I agree Quill on your first paragraph...

The point that seems to be missed here is that, by focusing on the more dramatic soap opera of the story, the real culprits become afterthoughts...typically, escaping with light fines or community service, after all is forgotten. Again, I remind people that there are 27 other tragedies (towers with the same cladding) just waiting for the opportunity to happen. We're not just letting the bad guys go with a slap of the wrist, but the distraction is causing us to turn our backs on future tragedies.

Thorin wrote:...but again the second has no evidence.

It's not intended to be a factual statement, but an apt supposition or hypothesis that describes the situation. We are being distracted as sure as if some professional PR firm were doing the job.

Thorin wrote:Its paranoia that has caused people to look to blame the Somalian Muslim

I understand that, but the point again is that we are turning our attention away from the real culprit here. In the vernacular, we are being played.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

But its clear you were never trained by them, or had a clown teach you fire training Rags.

No offense, when fire officers teach they always warn how fires reignite and yet you did not know that.

So either you had coco the clown teach you or you never have had fire training

Well if they had trained me and told me that fires can reignite, they would have looked out for that kind of thing, yes?

I have to know about fire regulations and what to do in the fire because of work, so shut your mouth and get off your high horse.

Sorry rags, i really am trying not to laugh.
Any fire officer who teaches who does not teaches this, has never been in the fire brigade and has never dealt with a fire. So I am going to challenge you on your claim you had training, because if you did, you would know that fires can easily reignite. So I do not believe you know much about fires

By the fact you telling me to shut my mouth proves this

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:

I agree Quill on your first paragraph...

The point that seems to be missed here is that, by focusing on the more dramatic soap opera of the story, the real culprits become afterthoughts...typically, escaping with light fines or community service, after all is forgotten.  Again, I remind people that there are 27 other tragedies (towers with the same cladding) just waiting for the opportunity to happen.  We're not just letting the bad guys go with a slap of the wrist, but the distraction is causing us to turn our backs on future tragedies.

Thorin wrote:...but again the second has no evidence.

It's not intended to be a factual statement, but an apt supposition or hypothesis that describes the situation.  We are being distracted as sure as if some professional PR firm were doing the job.

Thorin wrote:Its paranoia that has caused people to look to blame the Somalian Muslim

I understand that, but the point again is that we are turning our attention away from the real culprit here.  In the vernacular, we are being played.

Fair points Quill

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well if they had trained me and told me that fires can reignite, they would have looked out for that kind of thing, yes?

I have to know about fire regulations and what to do in the fire because of work, so shut your mouth and get off your high horse.

Sorry rags, i really am trying not to laugh.
Any fire officer who teaches who does not teaches this, has never been in the fire brigade and has never dealt with a fire. So I am going to challenge you on your claim you had training, because if you did, you would know that fires can easily reignite. So I do not believe you know much about fires

By the fact you telling me to shut my mouth proves this  

Are you suggesting that fire officers do not know that fires can reignite? If they do, why didn't they check that? I wasn't trained by a fire officer, and I never said I was - I said I'd had fire safety training. Try reading properly. I told you to shut your mouth because, as usual, you're getting pompous, bumptious, and bossy -telling people off, lecturing them, telling them their opinion is "wrong", and generally being an idiot.

There are hundreds of flats in Britain, not just 27 Quill. I bet lots have this cladding, schools and hospitals too.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Sorry rags, i really am trying not to laugh.
Any fire officer who teaches who does not teaches this, has never been in the fire brigade and has never dealt with a fire. So I am going to challenge you on your claim you had training, because if you did, you would know that fires can easily reignite. So I do not believe you know much about fires

By the fact you telling me to shut my mouth proves this  

Are you suggesting that fire officers do not know that fires can reignite? If they do, why didn't they check that? I wasn't trained by a fire officer, and I never said I was - I said I'd had fire safety training. Try reading properly. I told you to shut your mouth because, as usual, you're getting pompous, bumptious, and bossy -telling people off, lecturing them, telling them their opinion is "wrong", and generally being an idiot.

I agree about why didn't they check for further fires if they knew the fire could reignite.

The last bit about Thor made me laugh   sorry Thor

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Sorry rags, i really am trying not to laugh.
Any fire officer who teaches who does not teaches this, has never been in the fire brigade and has never dealt with a fire. So I am going to challenge you on your claim you had training, because if you did, you would know that fires can easily reignite. So I do not believe you know much about fires

By the fact you telling me to shut my mouth proves this  

Are you suggesting that fire officers do not know that fires can reignite? If they do, why didn't they check that? I wasn't trained by a fire officer, and I never said I was - I said I'd had fire safety training. Try reading properly. I told you to shut your mouth because, as usual, you're getting pompous, bumptious, and bossy -telling people off, lecturing them, telling them their opinion is "wrong", and generally being an idiot.

The fire did not restart in the flat.
It had ignited outside on the cladding. The fire in the flat with the intense heat had caused this. It had heated the cladding to such a temperature, that with oxygen it can ignite and burst into flames. If you have any inkling of understanding of this. You would understand what i am saying, but you do not. As usual you get abusive, so I will tell you what, ask Victor or even Veya, as both have a working understanding of this.
My intent was to not insult you, but you clearly never listened in fire training.

Thorin's  opinions  are invariably wrong.
He will undoubtedly tell us he is a master firefighter. 
Like you Raggs, I have had training as a Fire Safety Manager (FSM). The basic premise of being one is to identify danger and warning signs, and only to try to extinguish if left with no other option,. First priority is to oreserve life -EVACUATE and DIAL 999.( This applies to business premises and offices only). Flats can have other protocols.
Let the FB do their job, they are highly aware that fires can reignite, often hours after being extinguished.

Angry Andy wrote:Thorin's  opinions  are invariably wrong.
Like yoi, Raggs, I have had training as a Fire Safety Manager (FSM). The basic premise of being one is to identify danger and warning signs, and only to try to extinguish if left with no other option,. First priority is to oreserve life -EVACUATE and DIAL 999.
Let thd FB do their job, they are highly aware that fires can reignite, often hours after being extinguished.

So show me where i was wrong on combustibility mate?
I agree with you on preserving life and argued against Magica on this. Did you not see my points onto her on this where she blamed the Ethiopian
So on two counts you are looking silly andy

So tell me the thermodynamics of fire Andy?

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:

I agree Quill on your first paragraph...

The point that seems to be missed here is that, by focusing on the more dramatic soap opera of the story, the real culprits become afterthoughts...typically, escaping with light fines or community service, after all is forgotten.  Again, I remind people that there are 27 other tragedies (towers with the same cladding) just waiting for the opportunity to happen.  We're not just letting the bad guys go with a slap of the wrist, but the distraction is causing us to turn our backs on future tragedies.

Thorin wrote:...but again the second has no evidence.

It's not intended to be a factual statement, but an apt supposition or hypothesis that describes the situation.  We are being distracted as sure as if some professional PR firm were doing the job.

Thorin wrote:Its paranoia that has caused people to look to blame the Somalian Muslim

I understand that, but the point again is that we are turning our attention away from the real culprit here.  In the vernacular, we are being played.

The real culprits are not being let off the hook, the exact opposite.

This is going to take time to investigate, many different firms are involved, planners, buyers, contractors, sub contractors, whether working independently or for local councils.....they will all be investigated in due course.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/23/grenfell-tower-fire-police-considering-manslaughter-charges

Police have said they are considering manslaughter charges in relation to the deadly Grenfell Tower blaze as they revealed that the insulation and cladding tiles at the building failed safety tests.
Det Supt Fiona McCormack, who is overseeing the investigation, said on Friday that officers had established the initial cause of the fire was a fridge-freezer and that it was not started deliberately.
She said they were trying to get to the bottom of why the fire grew so quickly and tests had pointed towards the cladding using aluminium composite tiles and the insulation behind it. Investigators will now seek to establish whether the use of these materials was illegal.
McCormack said: “Preliminary tests show the insulation samples collected from Grenfell Tower combusted soon after the tests started. The initial test on the cladding tiles also failed the safety tests.”
She added that the insulation proved “more flammable than the cladding”. McCormack said police would investigate how the tiles were installed.
“We will identify and investigate any criminal offence and, of course, given the deaths of so many people, we are considering manslaughter, as well as criminal offences and breaches of legislation and regulations,” she said.

McCormack said documents and materials had been seized from a number of organisations but no one had been questioned yet as it was too early in the investigation.

I tell you what Andy and Rags, please ask Victor and Veya about the flash-point of materials

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Are you suggesting that fire officers do not know that fires can reignite? If they do, why didn't they check that? I wasn't trained by a fire officer, and I never said I was - I said I'd had fire safety training. Try reading properly. I told you to shut your mouth because, as usual, you're getting pompous, bumptious, and bossy -telling people off, lecturing them, telling them their opinion is "wrong", and generally being an idiot.

The fire did not restart in the flat.
It had ignited outside on the cladding. The fire in the flat with the intense heat had caused this. It had heated the cladding to such a temperature, that with oxygen it can ignite and burst into flames. If you have any inkling of understanding of this. You would understand what i am saying, but you do not. As usual you get abusive, so I will tell you what, ask Victor or even Veya, as both have a working understanding of this.
My intent was to not insult you, but you clearly never listened in fire training.

They would still check! It's their job!

Don't tell me I didn't listen in fire safety training. I have to know about it because of work - you know, that thing you never seem to bother with. Of course your intent is to insult me - that's always your intent, so you can have some insults back.

Thorin wrote:

Angry Andy wrote:Thorin's  opinions  are invariably wrong.
Like yoi, Raggs, I have had training as a Fire Safety Manager (FSM). The basic premise of being one is to identify danger and warning signs, and only to try to extinguish if left with no other option,. First priority is to oreserve life -EVACUATE and DIAL 999.
Let thd FB do their job, they are highly aware that fires can reignite, often hours after being extinguished.

So show me where i was wrong on combustibility mate?
I agree with you on preserving life and argued against Magica on this. Did you not see my points onto her on this where she blamed the Ethiopian
So on two counts you are looking silly andy

So tell me the thermodynamics of fire Andy?

Oh drag me into your row with Andy why don't you. Glad you're now calling the man Ethiopian now, he looked nothing like a Somalian, or do they all look the same to you.

Thorin wrote:I tell you what Andy and Rags, please ask Victor and Veya about the flash-point of materials

I don't need to ask them. You have repeatedly ignored the point I made - that professional fire officers would check there was no further risk of fire. Now pay attention or shut up.

magica wrote:

Thorin wrote:

So show me where i was wrong on combustibility mate?
I agree with you on preserving life and argued against Magica on this. Did you not see my points onto her on this where she blamed the Ethiopian
So on two counts you are looking silly andy

So tell me the thermodynamics of fire Andy?

Oh drag me into your row with Andy why don't you. Glad your now calling the man Ethiopian now, he looked nothing like a Somalian, or do they all look the same to you.

Seriously why are you getting upset?
No malice is intended, but you did castigate the man with the fridge in the flat magica.
Can you not take criticism?
Or people disagreeing with you?
I am happy to admit I was mistaken on his ethnicity

You were part of the debate were you not, so please take responsibility for what you say.

Is that not fair?

Did the chap actually dial 999?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:I tell you what Andy and Rags, please ask Victor and Veya about the flash-point of materials

I don't need to ask them. You have repeatedly ignored the point I made - that professional fire officers would check there was no further risk of fire. Now pay attention or shut up.

How can they check for further risk of fire based on not knowing about this cladding Rags?

They would check the flat would they not Rags.

So its great fun when a person claiming to know something as you do claim, is exposed as lying

Raggamuffin wrote:Did the chap actually dial 999?

What does that matter?

Someone did and they put out the fire in his flat

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't need to ask them. You have repeatedly ignored the point I made - that professional fire officers would check there was no further risk of fire. Now pay attention or shut up.

How can they check for further risk of fire based on not knowing about this cladding Rags?

They would check the flat would they not Rags.

So its great fun when a person claiming to know something as you do claim, is exposed as lying

They would check because they're professionals and they're supposed to know this stuff!

I'm not lying. You're the one who constantly lies about your "job" and most other things too.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Did the chap actually dial 999?

What does that matter?

Someone did and they put out the fire in his flat

Did he know that someone else was going to dial 999?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

How can they check for further risk of fire based on not knowing about this cladding Rags?

They would check the flat would they not Rags.

So its great fun when a person claiming to know something as you do claim, is exposed as lying

They would check because they're professionals and they're supposed to know this stuff!

I'm not lying. You're the one who constantly lies about your "job" and most other things too.

Oh my, so now they have to be experts in chemistry?

You lied and i easily exposed this by the fact you had no idea about how materials can ignite in to combustion or reignite

Why can you never admit to being wrong?

That is your failing Rags

This is not even my expertise, but any basic understanding of fire training would show you how dumb you are being  

Syl wrote:This is going to take time to investigate, many different firms are involved, planners, buyers, contractors, sub contractors, whether working independently or for local councils.....they will all be investigated in due course.

Ah yes, the time element. Didn’t I say it would come into play?

Original Quill wrote:...by focusing on the more dramatic soap opera of the story, the real culprits become afterthoughts...typically, escaping with light fines or community service, after all is forgotten.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

What does that matter?

Someone did and they put out the fire in his flat

Did he know that someone else was going to dial 999?

What does it matter?

Someone called 999

They put out the fire in his flat.

They began to leave

To their horror, the fire had engulfed the building on the outside

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

What does that matter?

Someone did and they put out the fire in his flat

Did he know that someone else was going to dial 999?

This happens a lot. One comes on a fire, says to the others, Call 999!! and then proceeds to attend to the emergency. Heck, I've done it myself.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

They would check because they're professionals and they're supposed to know this stuff!

I'm not lying. You're the one who constantly lies about your "job" and most other things too.

Oh my, so now they have to be experts in chemistry?

You lied and i easily exposed this by the fact you had no idea about how materials can ignite in to combustion or reignite

Why can you never admit to being wrong?

That is your failing Rags

This is not even my expertise, but any basic understanding of fire training would show you how dumb you are being  

I'm not wrong. It's not relevant what I know, it's relevant what fire officers know, but you have no idea what the debate is about as usual.

I hope you get stuck in the basement again soon - it was lovely when you stopped posting.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Did he know that someone else was going to dial 999?

What does it matter?

Someone called 999

They put out the fire in his flat.

They began to leave

To their horror, the fire had engulfed the building on the outside

It matters because it would indicate whether he was negligent or not.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

What does it matter?

Someone called 999

They put out the fire in his flat.

They began to leave

To their horror, the fire had engulfed the building on the outside

It matters because it would indicate whether he was negligent or not.

Is that why the Police disagree with you Rags?

People panic with fires.

Its not against the law to panic or be controlled by your adrenaline.

Clearly either he did call 999 or someone else did

That had no bearing on the fact the fire spread

Do you understand that?

Now stop acting like a child and come back to being the adult I like and respect.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Oh my, so now they have to be experts in chemistry?

You lied and i easily exposed this by the fact you had no idea about how materials can ignite in to combustion or reignite

Why can you never admit to being wrong?

That is your failing Rags

This is not even my expertise, but any basic understanding of fire training would show you how dumb you are being  

I'm not wrong. It's not relevant what I know, it's relevant what fire officers know, but you have no idea what the debate is about as usual.

I hope you get stuck in the basement again soon - it was lovely when you stopped posting.

So you wish me to be censured and you are breaking the rules again

Never thought you feared me Rags

I took you for a strong willed person, not someone that feared me

You are breaking the rules again and exposing to being emotional

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It matters because it would indicate whether he was negligent or not.

Is that why the Police disagree with you Rags?

People panic with fires.

Its not against the law to panic or be controlled by your adrenaline.

Clearly either he did call 999 or someone else did

That had no bearing on the fact the fire spread

Do you understand that?

Now stop acting like a child and come back to being the adult I like and respect.

I have no interest in your "respect". I think that if he didn't check someone had called 999, he was negligent.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I'm not wrong. It's not relevant what I know, it's relevant what fire officers know, but you have no idea what the debate is about as usual.

I hope you get stuck in the basement again soon - it was lovely when you stopped posting.

So you wish me to be censured and you are breaking the rules again

Never thought you feared me Rags

I took you for a strong willed person, not someone that feared me

You are breaking the rules again and exposing to being emotional

I'm not breaking any rules, I'm merely saying it was lovely when you weren't here spouting your bullshit, telling people off, and taking over all the debates with red herrings.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Is that why the Police disagree with you Rags?

People panic with fires.

Its not against the law to panic or be controlled by your adrenaline.

Clearly either he did call 999 or someone else did

That had no bearing on the fact the fire spread

Do you understand that?

Now stop acting like a child and come back to being the adult I like and respect.

I have no interest in your "respect". I think that if he didn't check someone had called 999, he was negligent.

But do you know whether he never did?

Are you throughout speculating?

So because people fear for their lives you now introduce a non-existent law.
That people have to control their adrenaline and fears hen they face them.

You have never face fear have you?

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I have no interest in your "respect". I think that if he didn't check someone had called 999, he was negligent.

But do you know whether he never did?

Are you throughout speculating?

So because people fear for their lives you now introduce a non-existent law.
That people have to control their adrenaline and fears hen they face them.

You have never face fear have you?

That's why I said "if". Pay attention. It's my opinion. I know you don't like other people's opinions, but that's just tough.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

So you wish me to be censured and you are breaking the rules again

Never thought you feared me Rags

I took you for a strong willed person, not someone that feared me

You are breaking the rules again and exposing to being emotional

I'm not breaking any rules, I'm merely saying it was lovely when you weren't here spouting your bullshit, telling people off, and taking over all the debates with red herrings.

You are going off wanting me to be in the basement

That exposes your fear of me Rags



You are upset and its clear to see and it was not my intent.

Its about your failing to admit when wrong.

You broke the rules again, I love it, because it shows you fear my views that you would rather I am censured

Happy days]