Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

First topic message reminder :

Police will consider manslaughter charges as part of the investigation into the Grenfell Tower blaze, which left at least 79 people dead. Scotland Yard said on Friday that the fire started in a faulty fridge and that insulation and tiles on the block failed safety tests. Nine out of the 79 dead or presumed dead have been formally identified, police said.

Metropolitan Police Detective Superintendent Fiona McCormack said: “I know there is a fear that that number is a lot higher and I do not want any hidden victims of this tragedy.”

Police said they are still trying to establish who was in the 24-storey tower block the night the fire broke out last Wednesday. DSI McCormack confirmed that neither the police, nor the Home Office, will use the tragedy to check the immigration status of anybody in the block and urged friends and relatives of those feared missing to come forward.

The search of the Lancaster West Estate high-rise could take until the end of the year.

Police said there are currently more than 250 specialist investigators working on “all aspects” of the investigation.

“The terrible reality is we may not find or identify all those who died in the fire,” DSI McCormack added.


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/grenfell-tower-tiles-failed-safety-tests-met-police-say_uk_594cdc45e4b0da2c731ad593?utm_hp_ref=uk&utm_hp_ref=uk

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

But do you know whether he never did?

Are you throughout speculating?

So because people fear for their lives you now introduce a non-existent law.
That people have to control their adrenaline and fears hen they face them.

You have never face fear have you?

That's why I said "if". Pay attention. It's my opinion. I know you don't like other people's opinions, but that's just tough.

I am paying attention

You have never faced fear and combated that

Its very obvious Rags

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I'm not breaking any rules, I'm merely saying it was lovely when you weren't here spouting your bullshit, telling people off, and taking over all the debates with red herrings.

You are going off wanting me to be in the basement

That exposes your fear of me Rags



You are upset and its clear to see and it was not my intent.

Its about your failing to admit when wrong.

You broke the rules again, I love it, because it shows you fear my views that you would rather I am censured

Happy days]

No, it's the intelligent conversation from others which was nice when you were in there. Now you're on ignore because I can't stand your ignorant stupidity any more for the moment.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

You are going off wanting me to be in the basement

That exposes your fear of me Rags



You are upset and its clear to see and it was not my intent.

Its about your failing to admit when wrong.

You broke the rules again, I love it, because it shows you fear my views that you would rather I am censured

Happy days]

No, it's the intelligent conversation from others which was nice when you were in there. Now you're on ignore because I can't stand your ignorant stupidity any more for the moment.

So now you are saying I am not intelligent, after educating you on how fires can reignite?

Ok

Thorin wrote:

magica wrote:

Oh drag me into your row with Andy why don't you. Glad your now calling the man Ethiopian now, he looked nothing like a Somalian, or do they all look the same to you.

Seriously why are you getting upset?
No malice is intended, but you did castigate the man with the fridge in the flat magica.
Can you not take criticism?
Or people disagreeing with you?
I am happy to admit I was mistaken on his ethnicity

You were part of the debate were you not, so please take responsibility for what you say.

Is that not fair?

I'm not upset and can take criticism and said I blamed the man until you said the fire reignited.

Don't tell me to take responsibility, as I already had

magica wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Seriously why are you getting upset?
No malice is intended, but you did castigate the man with the fridge in the flat magica.
Can you not take criticism?
Or people disagreeing with you?
I am happy to admit I was mistaken on his ethnicity

You were part of the debate were you not, so please take responsibility for what you say.

Is that not fair?

I'm not upset and can take criticism and said I blamed the man until you said the fire reignited.

Don't tell me to take responsibility, as I already had

I dont want you to take responsibility magica

All I am questioning is why you blame him and want him to take responsibility as you surely do. By the fact you cast him as running away when he never has.

So are you being fair or scapegoating him?

He did runaway, so I'm not wrong there. If I'm scapegoating then hands up, have it your way, you always have to be right. End of.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Did the chap actually dial 999?

What does that matter?

Someone did and they put out the fire in his flat

He didn't dial 999, his neighbour who he alerted did.
I think it does matter, because this is the reason he is being castigated.
He packed first, alerted a neighbour, left the building, and the neighbour phoned the fire brigade and alerted others.

He must have had his own reasons...the police seemed satisfied that nothing was deliberate.

magica wrote:He did runaway, so I'm not wrong there. If I'm scapegoating then hands up, have it your way, you always have to be right. End of.

Really?

Well imagine just as you are doing, that you blame him for this and do this for running away

What crime did he commit?

Saving his own life and others?

Are you saying he would know the cladding would catch fire and spread rapidly?
As that seems to be what you are suggesting.
I find that appalling, that somehow you look to blame one man an not those who caused this.
Those that wanted to go cheap on fire safety

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:

What does that matter?

Someone did and they put out the fire in his flat

He didn't dial 999, his neighbour who he alerted did.
I think it does matter, because this is the reason he is being castigated.
He packed first, alerted a neighbour, left the building, and the neighbour phoned the fire brigade and alerted others.

He must have had his own reasons...the police seemed satisfied that nothing was deliberate.

Are you kidding me?

So it matters who called 999

Have you ever faced such a situation?

No and you and others come down as the most fuckwittery of judges to say what he should do when faced with such a situation?

Shame on you Syl

Fucking shame on you syl, as i hope you never fear for your life and have people judge you

The fire brigade got to his flat and put out the fire

Let that sink into your head

They were leaving and only because of the highly flammable cladding, that saw this fire ignite and spread. You now what to question him?

And not those who went on the cheap with fire safety

You should be fucking ashamed of yourself.

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:This is going to take time to investigate, many different firms are involved, planners, buyers, contractors, sub contractors, whether working independently or for local councils.....they will all be investigated in due course.

Ah yes, the time element.  Didn’t I say it would come into play?

Original Quill wrote:...by focusing on the more dramatic soap opera of the story, the real culprits become afterthoughts...typically, escaping with light fines or community service, after all is forgotten.

Of course it will take time. The police have already said this is one of the biggest most painstaking cases of this kind they have ever faced.
Don't you think the people involved deserve to have the best outcome Quill?
They wont get it with a rushed botched enquiry.

Thorin wrote:Are you kidding me?

So it matters who called 999

Have you ever faced such a situation?

No and you and others come down as the most fuckwittery of judges to say what he should do when faced with such a situation?

Shame on you Syl

Ok, stop right there. I agree with you totally. It doesn't matter who dials 999, or who puts out the fire.

But,

Thorin wrote:Fucking shame on you syl, as i hope you never fear for your life and have people judge you

You don't need to go there. Your point is made.

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:Are you kidding me?

So it matters who called 999

Have you ever faced such a situation?

No and you and others come down as the most fuckwittery of judges to say what he should do when faced with such a situation?

Shame on you Syl

Ok, stop right there.  I agree with you totally.  It doesn't matter who dials 999, or who puts out the fire.

But,

Thorin wrote:Fucking shame on you syl, as i hope you never fear for your life and have people judge you

You don't need to go there.  Your point is made.

Point taken, but it really annoys me when people are so bloody dimwitted

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:

He didn't dial 999, his neighbour who he alerted did.
I think it does matter, because this is the reason he is being castigated.
He packed first, alerted a neighbour, left the building, and the neighbour phoned the fire brigade and alerted others.

He must have had his own reasons...the police seemed satisfied that nothing was deliberate.

Are you kidding me?

So it matters who called 999

Have you ever faced such a situation?

No and you and others come down as the most fuckwittery of judges to say what he should do when faced with such a situation?

Shame on you Syl

Fucking shame on you syl, as i hope you never fear for your life and have people judge you

The fire brigade got to his flat and put out the fire

Let that sink into your head

They were leaving and only because of the highly flammable cladding, that saw this fire ignite and spread. You now what to question him?

And not those who went on the cheap with fire safety

You should be fucking ashamed of yourself.

Oh calm down you will do yourself an injury.

I listed the facts of the matter according to the people who were there on the night.

The fact that the man did not call 999 himself is the very bloody reason he is being mentioned at all....not only here, in the papers and all over the internet.

I have already said the publicity he has recieved is unfair and his name SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN MADE PUBLIC.
You are the one continuously harping on about him.

Thorin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Ok, stop right there.  I agree with you totally.  It doesn't matter who dials 999, or who puts out the fire.

But,



You don't need to go there.  Your point is made.

Point taken, but it really annoys me when people are so bloody dimwitted

I think its you who is being dim-witted in this thread to be honest.
I am not judging the man...I am giving the facts.

You are looking for a row today Thor, Mags, Rags, me.......you are trivialising this thread by not understanding what people are saying and charging in with your emotions not your brain.
Get back on topic.

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Are you kidding me?

So it matters who called 999

Have you ever faced such a situation?

No and you and others come down as the most fuckwittery of judges to say what he should do when faced with such a situation?

Shame on you Syl

Fucking shame on you syl, as i hope you never fear for your life and have people judge you

The fire brigade got to his flat and put out the fire

Let that sink into your head

They were leaving and only because of the highly flammable cladding, that saw this fire ignite and spread. You now what to question him?

And not those who went on the cheap with fire safety

You should be fucking ashamed of yourself.

Oh calm down you will do yourself an injury.

I listed the facts of the matter according to the people who were there on the night.

The fact that the man did not call 999 himself is the very bloody reason he is being mentioned at all....not only here, in the papers and all over the internet.

I have already said the publicity he has recieved is unfair and his name  SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN MADE PUBLIC.
You are the one continuously harping on about him.

On this you are an idiot

You deflect onto whether he called 999, not ever taking into account the fact people have no control over their emotions or abilities to act.

You have the cheek to sit their and preach and fucking look to castigate him,l when again his flat had the fire brigade attend and put out the fire

So you tell me Syl, what the fuck does it matter who called 999?

It only ended up causing more deaths actually, because they told them to stay in their flats and wait for the emergencies services

And you have the fucking balls to question him calling 999 and not question why highly flammable cladding as on the outside of the building

Please joins Rags in the dunce courner after that fuckwittery

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Ah yes, the time element.  Didn’t I say it would come into play?

Of course it will take time. The police have already said this is one of the biggest most painstaking cases of this kind they have ever faced.
Don't you think the people involved deserve to have the best outcome Quill?
They wont get it with a rushed botched enquiry.

And that's the beauty of delay...it obfuscates. Time wears down recollection and dulls sensitivities. Institutions use delay all the time. Delay in trials. Delay in the death penalty. Delay in investigations.

Along with delay comes desensitization. Along with desensitization, comes public amnesia. It's a great tool. That's why knowledgeable people and firms hire PR firms...to attract attention elsewhere: look over there, don't look over here!

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Point taken, but it really annoys me when people are so bloody dimwitted

I think its you who is being dim-witted in this thread to be honest.
I am not judging the man...I am giving the facts.

You are looking for a row today Thor, Mags, Rags, me.......you are trivialising this thread by not understanding  what people are saying and charging in with your emotions not your brain.
Get back on topic.

Okay Syl, please give me your facts, that allow you to blame and castigate a man for the failings on fire safety of a building?

Please tell me how he is to blame on hat Syl?

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:
Of course it will take time. The police have already said this is one of the biggest most painstaking cases of this kind they have ever faced.
Don't you think the people involved deserve to have the best outcome Quill?
They wont get it with a rushed botched enquiry.

And that's the beauty of delay...it obfuscates.  Time wears down recollection and dulls sensitivities.  Institutions use delay all the time.  Delay in trials.  Delay in the death penalty.  Delay in investigations.  

Along with delay comes desensitization.  Along with desensitization, comes public amnesia.  It's a great tool.  That's why knowledgeable people and firms hire PR firms...to attract attention elsewhere: look over there, don't look over here!

I hope you are wrong, the police are already talking of corporate manslaughter....that's something we dont often hear here in the UK.
I really think in this case justice will be done eventually...and more importantly the public will insist that justice is SEEN to be done.
It will take time, but time wont dull the memory of whats happened here.

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

And that's the beauty of delay...it obfuscates.  Time wears down recollection and dulls sensitivities.  Institutions use delay all the time.  Delay in trials.  Delay in the death penalty.  Delay in investigations.  

Along with delay comes desensitization.  Along with desensitization, comes public amnesia.  It's a great tool.  That's why knowledgeable people and firms hire PR firms...to attract attention elsewhere: look over there, don't look over here!

I hope you are wrong, the police are already talking of corporate manslaughter....that's something we dont often hear here in the UK.
I really think in this case justice will be done eventually...and more importantly the public will insist that justice is SEEN to be done.
It will take time, but time wont dull the memory of whats happened here.

It ill take far longer for you to reach intelligence

On this you are an idiot

You deflect onto whether he called 999, not ever taking into account the fact people have no control over their emotions or abilities to act.

You have the cheek to sit their and preach and fucking look to castigate him,l when again his flat had the fire brigade attend and put out the fire

So you tell me Syl, what the fuck does it matter who called 999?

It only ended up causing more deaths actually, because they told them to stay in their flats and wait for the emergencies services

And you have the fucking balls to question him calling 999 and not question why highly flammable cladding as on the outside of the building

Please joins Rags in the dunce courner after that fuckwittery

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

And that's the beauty of delay...it obfuscates.  Time wears down recollection and dulls sensitivities.  Institutions use delay all the time.  Delay in trials.  Delay in the death penalty.  Delay in investigations.  

Along with delay comes desensitization.  Along with desensitization, comes public amnesia.  It's a great tool.  That's why knowledgeable people and firms hire PR firms...to attract attention elsewhere: look over there, don't look over here!

I hope you are wrong, the police are already talking of corporate manslaughter....that's something we dont often hear here in the UK.
I really think in this case justice will be done eventually...and more importantly the public will insist that justice is SEEN to be done.
It will take time, but time wont dull the memory of whats happened here.

Lol. Start looking at your watch. Keep looking...

If you get tired of looking at your watch, it's working.

Oh dear ... I see someone's having a tantrum.

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:

I think its you who is being dim-witted in this thread to be honest.
I am not judging the man...I am giving the facts.

You are looking for a row today Thor, Mags, Rags, me.......you are trivialising this thread by not understanding  what people are saying and charging in with your emotions not your brain.
Get back on topic.

Okay Syl, please give me your facts, that allow you to blame and castigate a man for the failings on fire safety of a building?

Please tell me how he is to blame on hat Syl?

I haven't blamed him....you just insist I have with no reason..
The question was 'did the man dial 999'.
You said it didn't matter.

The whole point this man is being castigated (and not by me, get your facts straight) is because he first packed his bags before he alerted anyone about the fire, and he did not call 999 himself.


I have said throughout he has his reasons...neither you nor I know what they were. The police were satisfied he had no ulterior motive.

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:

I hope you are wrong, the police are already talking of corporate manslaughter....that's something we dont often hear here in the UK.
I really think in this case justice will be done eventually...and more importantly the public will insist that justice is SEEN to be done.
It will take time, but time wont dull the memory of whats happened here.

Lol.  Start looking at your watch.  Keep looking...

If you get tired of looking at your watch, it's working.

Great point

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Okay Syl, please give me your facts, that allow you to blame and castigate a man for the failings on fire safety of a building?

Please tell me how he is to blame on hat Syl?

I haven't blamed him....you just insist I have with no reason..
The question was 'did the man dial 999'.
You said it didn't matter.

The whole point this man is being castigated (and not by me, get your facts straight) is because he first packed his bags before he alerted anyone to the fact there was a fire, and he did not call 999 himself.

I have said throughout he has his reasons...neither you nor I know what they were. The police were satisfied he had no ulterior motive.

I will break this down for you in to simpleton terms you dummy

What does it matter who called 999?

They attended and put out the fire in his flat

The heat caused the outer cladding to catch fire

People who called 999 were told to stay in their flats and were those who died

What the fuck does it matter who called 999 you idiot?

It caused more people to die

Do you not understand that?

Fucking idiot

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:

I haven't blamed him....you just insist I have with no reason..
The question was 'did the man dial 999'.
You said it didn't matter.

The whole point this man is being castigated (and not by me, get your facts straight) is because he first packed his bags before he alerted anyone to the fact there was a fire, and he did not call 999 himself.

I have said throughout he has his reasons...neither you nor I know what they were. The police were satisfied he had no ulterior motive.

I will break this down for you in to simpleton terms you dummy

What does it matter who called 999?

They attended and put out the fire in his flat

The heat caused the outer cladding to catch fire

People who called 999 were told to stay in their flats and were those who died

What the fuck does it matter who called 999 you idiot?

It caused more people to die

Do you not understand that?

Fucking idiot

Go and have a lie down, you have over excited yourself again.
I wont be answering you again in this thread......bye bye.

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:

I will break this down for you in to simpleton terms you dummy

What does it matter who called 999?

They attended and put out the fire in his flat

The heat caused the outer cladding to catch fire

People who called 999 were told to stay in their flats and were those who died

What the fuck does it matter who called 999 you idiot?

It caused more people to die

Do you not understand that?

Fucking idiot

Go and have a lie down, you have over excited yourself again.
I wont be answering you again in this thread......bye bye.

I dont need to have lie down hun

What you need to do is stop doing is being a twat

Now I hope you understand why you are an idiot here

Now i wont respect you until you understand what a fuckwit you have been here

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl, go and stand in the corner and think about what you've done.

Raggamuffin wrote:Syl, go and stand in the corner and think about what you've done.

At least you are learning Rags

Raggamuffin wrote:Syl, go and stand in the corner and think about what you've done.

I will...and I will write 100 times....


I am sorry I allowed myself to debate with a dickhead.
I am sorry I allowed myself to debate with a dickhead
I am sorry I allowed................

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Syl, go and stand in the corner and think about what you've done.

I will...and I will write 100 times....


I am sorry I allowed myself to debate with a dickhead.
I am sorry I allowed myself to debate  with a dickhead
I am sorry I allowed................

You dont need to write why you are stupid here, just understand why you are Syl

That is evident why you run away from my points and you deserved every condemnation for your backward views on this. They were in line with medieval thinking

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:

I haven't blamed him....you just insist I have with no reason..
The question was 'did the man dial 999'.
You said it didn't matter.

The whole point this man is being castigated (and not by me, get your facts straight) is because he first packed his bags before he alerted anyone to the fact there was a fire, and he did not call 999 himself.

I have said throughout he has his reasons...neither you nor I know what they were. The police were satisfied he had no ulterior motive.

I will break this down for you in to simpleton terms you dummy

What does it matter who called 999?

They attended and put out the fire in his flat

The heat caused the outer cladding to catch fire

People who called 999 were told to stay in their flats and were those who died

What the fuck does it matter who called 999 you idiot?

It caused more people to die

Do you not understand that?

Fucking idiot

You know you're losing the argument when you seek to insult.

Syl no way blamed that man, the one you keep calling Somalian Muslim, she stuck up for him, read back.

Whilst I'm on the subject insulting Syl and swearing at her just shows what a moron you are, and you had the cheek to tell another poster off, you're worse!

Bet Syls crying now she's lost your respect.

No one puts Syl in the corner! Lol

magica wrote:

Thorin wrote:

I will break this down for you in to simpleton terms you dummy

What does it matter who called 999?

They attended and put out the fire in his flat

The heat caused the outer cladding to catch fire

People who called 999 were told to stay in their flats and were those who died

What the fuck does it matter who called 999 you idiot?

It caused more people to die

Do you not understand that?

Fucking idiot

You know you're losing the argument when you seek to insult.

Syl no way blamed that man, the one you keep calling Somalian Muslim, she stuck up for him, read back.

Whilst I'm on the subject insulting Syl and swearing at her just shows what a moron you are, and you had the cheek to tell another poster off, you're worse!

Okay I admitted I as wrong on their ethnicity

I stated that already

Syl is about as dumb as it gets on this

That is a fact, as she goes off poor dumb views that have no relevance

That is a fact

So I ask why are you and Syl looking to blame the Ethiopian.

I would say that is inherent racism

magica wrote:Bet Syls crying now she's lost your respect.

No one puts Syl in the corner! Lol

Ooooh, you sound just like Patrick Swayze when you say it like that.

Syl wrote:

magica wrote:Bet Syls crying now she's lost your respect.

No one puts Syl in the corner! Lol

Ooooh, you sound just like Patrick Swayze when you say it like that.  

And yet you have failed yo still answer my arguments





You look for comfort

Pleas continue to suck up to people, its a failing hun.

Your the one who keeps bringing him into it. What has rascism got to do with this, had he been white and I said it, would I be racist then.

You are a rude man Thor who thinks he is always right and others wrong.

You call Syl all sorts of names swearing at her too,nasty eejit you are.

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:

Ooooh, you sound just like Patrick Swayze when you say it like that.  

And yet you have failed yo still answer my arguments







You look for comfort

Pleas continue to suck up to people, its a failing hun.

magica wrote:Your the one who keeps bringing him into it. What has rascism got to do with this, had he been white and I said it, would I be racist then.

You are a rude man Thor who thinks he is always right and others wrong.

You call Syl all sorts of names swearing at her too,nasty eejit you are.

I am outspoken magica

I do not hold back and here Syl is an idiot.

I respect her, but sometimes she talks bollocks

I never call her names, ask her

The fact is her view here is utterly dumb, she knows I respect her and I am not afraid to tell a friend when she is being silly

That is true friendship, as she will always be my friend

The arrogance gets worse and worse ...

Thorin wrote:

magica wrote:Your the one who keeps bringing him into it. What has rascism got to do with this, had he been white and I said it, would I be racist then.

You are a rude man Thor who thinks he is always right and others wrong.

You call Syl all sorts of names swearing at her too,nasty eejit you are.

I am outspoken magica

I do not hold back and here Syl is an idiot.

I respect her, but sometimes she talks bollocks

I never call her names, ask her

The fact is her view here is utterly dumb, she knows I respect her and I am not afraid to tell a friend when she is being silly

That is true friendship, as she will always be my friend

I'm sure Syl appreciates your calling her names in the name of friendship.

With friends like you she don't need any enemies..

Raggamuffin wrote:The arrogance gets worse and worse ...

But he's her friend Rags

Raggamuffin wrote:The arrogance gets worse and worse ...

With you tantrums?

I agree Rags

Have you learnt more about combustion yet?

magica wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:The arrogance gets worse and worse ...

But he's her friend Rags

I am her friend Magica, ask her

magica wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:The arrogance gets worse and worse ...

But he's her friend Rags

More fool her.

Raggamuffin wrote:

magica wrote:


But he's her friend Rags

More fool her.

So you are slagging her off now?

At least I tell Syl to her face what I mean but still respect her

She respects my passions

Tell her how you feel Rags

Raggamuffin wrote:

magica wrote:


But he's her friend Rags

More fool her.

Has anyone told her yet

magica wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

More fool her.

Has anyone told her yet

Unbelievable, at least I tell her what I mean

You both hide behind each other to slate her

I respect that lady, but you to act like children

You both have massive insecurity issues, as why not be happy for people?

How the he'll are we insulting Syl, show me where.

You really are amazing at turning your insults around to blame others.

Oh we got insecurity issues now, don't make me laugh you know nothing about me or rags.