Choking to death: should we stop sending women to prison?

First topic message reminder :

Even if many politicians are convinced by the ethical and economic case for closing women’s prisons, many feel they need to appear “tough on crime” to a public that demands punishment and retribution.

Gemma learned a lot from prison. On her first day in HMP Styal, eight years ago, she learned how to take heroin and crack cocaine. “I didn’t tell the girls I hadn’t done them before – I just wanted to fit in,” she tells me when we meet at Brighton Oasis Project, a charity for women with drug or alcohol addictions. By her second jail sentence, at HMP Bronzefield in Surrey in early 2013, she’d been taught how to “load up” with drug-filled condoms before her court date and how to avoid being “decrotched”: “when someone watches the cell door and they use a spoon to take the drugs out from inside of you”.

Gemma says she didn’t know before prison that if you slit your wrists the blood can spurt so high it hits the ceiling – but self-harm was so common at Bronzefield that a deep-clean team was often called in to mop up the bloodstains, and the staff carried knives to cut ligatures from inmates’ necks. One woman repeatedly tried to hang herself but the guards “didn’t do anything to stop it. They just put her on meds and kept on cutting her down.”

According to a study published in the Lancet in December, a quarter of female prisoners self-harm, and 102 female inmates self-harmed more than 100 times in one year. Self-harm is more common among women in prison than men: women make up 5 per cent of the UK’s prison population but account for 28 per cent of self-harm cases.



http://www.newstatesman.com/2014/01/choking-death


Plenty more to read ad also very interesting, but is that the right way forward, what do others think?

Women should face the exact same punishment as a man for the same crime anything else is sexist. No Vaild argument can be made in the age of equality.

And I dont get the TV license. you pay for free to air or is it like cable TV or something. Do you get any TV for Free I guess is what I am asking?

PhilDidge wrote:Oh for those posters who do not know who is oddbod:




 :D

Fuck off back to Flap, you sanctimonious twat!

However....The RW on there don't give you much of the time of day, and in particular, the admin as well!

  

At least i'm not castigated by the LW on here!

Catman wrote:

Fuck (tourette's syndrome) off back to Flap, you sanctimonious (tourette's syndrome) twat (tourette's syndrome) !

However....The RW on there don't give you much of the time of day, and in particular, the admin as well!

  

Dear me Oddbod is having a hissy, thanks for proving my point again, no debate on the topic just more about me,

Thanks, you keep making my day

 :D 

veya_victaous wrote:Women should face the exact same punishment as a man for the same crime anything else is sexist. No Vaild argument can be made in the age of equality.

And I dont get the TV license. you pay for free to air or is it like cable TV or something. Do you get any TV for Free I guess is what I am asking?

Everyone who watches a TV, or who watches TV stations on line, has to have a licence. I don't think anyone should be sent to prison for not having a licence. It's iniquitous, but it is happening to a lot of single mothers, because they are in the worst financial position, and it means children being taken into care, losing their homes etc, which leads to more misery and more state money being spent on the children in care, all for the sake of £145.50.

PhilDidge wrote:

Catman wrote:

Fuck (tourette's syndrome) off back to Flap, you sanctimonious (tourette's syndrome)  twat (tourette's syndrome) !

However....The RW on there don't give you much of the time of day, and in particular, the admin as well!

  

Dear me Oddbod is having a hissy, thanks for proving my point again, no debate on the topic just more about me,

Thanks, you keep making my day

 :D 

Says work cheat who is making it all about others.

Sassy wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Dear me Oddbod is having a hissy, thanks for proving my point again, no debate on the topic just more about me,

Thanks, you keep making my day

 :D 

Says work cheat who is making it all about others.

Thank you again for posting nothing about the debate and just poor woeful accusations about me, proving my point yet again

 :D

PhilDidge wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Says work cheat who is making it all about others.

Thank you again for posting nothing about the debate and just poor woeful accusations about me, proving my point yet again

 :D

I did, you haven't managed it yet.

Sassy wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Thank you again for posting nothing about the debate and just poor woeful accusations about me, proving my point yet again

 :D

I did, you haven't managed it yet.

Oh I read that reply, again you place material wealth over the children's real needs, proving my point again

Placing material wealth over the child's needs? Nope, that is what the court is doing. Placing £145.50 over what the child needs, a home and it's mother.

PhilDidge wrote:

Catman wrote:

Fuck (tourette's syndrome) off back to Flap, you sanctimonious (tourette's syndrome)  twat (tourette's syndrome) !

However....The RW on there don't give you much of the time of day, and in particular, the admin as well!

  

Dear me Oddbod is having a hissy, thanks for proving my point again, no debate on the topic just more about me,

Thanks, you keep making my day

 :D 

Why don't you a make representation to admin here, to get a swear filter introduced, since you are editing my posts, like there is a swear filter on board, you stupid cunt!

Sassy wrote:Placing material wealth over the child's needs?   Nope, that is what the court is doing.   Placing £145.50 over what the child needs, a home and it's mother.

Nope, as we have laws, I may not agree with the laws, but the law states she must have a licence to watch TV, she choose to neglect this and kept the material object thus creating her situation.

If you cannot afford something then you don't then not only place yourself in a worse situation but could end up going to jail and having your children placed in care by keeping this.

Obviously you would give up what you cannot afford, you though would place her in peril.

Again a child needs food on the table, a roof over its head, clothes and most of all the mother to be their for them, not a box to watch!

So basically you think people should sell every possession if they are poor, until they have nothing left.   How about books, should she sell any books, even if they are educational.   How about if she has a treasured piece of jewellery, perhaps left to her by her husband who has died, should she sell that.   Oh, and if they are only three of them, and they have four plates - one should go?

Were you brought up as Catholic Didge...

...Something at the back of my mind, says that you were.

....I was as well, and indeed, i was confirmed into that awful religion, but the Irish Catholics next door to us, when we were growing up, they used to swear like troopers...Quite funny really!

Actually, I'd say more of a Puritan.

Sassy wrote:So basically you think people should sell every possession if they are poor, until they have nothing left.   How about books, should she sell any books, even if they are educational.   How about if she has a treasured piece of jewelry, perhaps left to her by her husband who has died, should she sell that.   Oh, and if they are only three of them, and they have four plates - one should go?

Of things that are non essential yes, why have things that you do not need, if your financial situation is dire, you thus place yourself in greater difficulties. Blimey no wonder they said millions are in severe debt and need good financial advice, this is a clear example of this.
Sorry, if it meant feeding my children, I would literally sell the skin off my back, if I did not have the funds to do so.

Sassy wrote:Actually, I'd say more of a Puritan.

Well he likes to think he is!   

There were many kids in his family, so he had to fight for his parents attention!

That's why he is, like he is!

What about the children though, are they allowed nothing? No books, no toys, no radio, no tv, no board games etc. They have to suffer because they are poor right? They don't have the same requirements as other children, they have done the most terrible thing and belong to a family on a low income.

PhilDidge wrote:

Sassy wrote:So basically you think people should sell every possession if they are poor, until they have nothing left.   How about books, should she sell any books, even if they are educational.   How about if she has a treasured piece of jewelry, perhaps left to her by her husband who has died, should she sell that.   Oh, and if they are only three of them, and they have four plates - one should go?

Of things that are non essential yes, why have things that you do not need, if your financial situation is dire, you thus place yourself in greater difficulties. Blimey no wonder they said millions are in severe debt and need good financial advice, this is a clear example of this.
Sorry, if it meant feeding my children, I would literally sell the skin off my back, if I did not have the funds to do so.

I'll help you remove it..... :D 

grumpy old git wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Of things that are non essential yes, why have things that you do not need, if your financial situation is dire, you thus place yourself in greater difficulties. Blimey no wonder they said millions are in severe debt and need good financial advice, this is a clear example of this.
Sorry, if it meant feeding my children, I would literally sell the skin off my back, if I did not have the funds to do so.

I'll help you remove it..... :D 

Don't think gums will work, plus all that slobbery over my back, yuck

 :D 

What about a computer Didge. Secondary school children these days can't do their homework without it, literally, as I found out when living with all my grandchildren. Now, if they don't have a tv, they will watch programmes online, which still needs a tv licence. So what you gonna do about that. No computer so their education is harmed, because it will be, nearly all homework is set and done online now.

Sassy wrote:What about the children though, are they allowed nothing?   No books, no toys, no radio, no tv, no board games etc.   They have to suffer because they are poor right?   They don't have the same requirements as other children, they have done the most terrible thing and belong to a family on a low income.

Never hear of a library Sassy for books.
I never said they have to suffer and you can play many types of games without toys or board games.
Seriously essentials come first, again growing up as young I had no TV, we actually spent more time together as a family, learning, playing having fun and I certainly did not resent it. You are arguing at cross purposes here why they are poor, my view is on if they are poor what is needed to be done in that given situation!

PhilDidge wrote:

grumpy old git wrote:

I'll help you remove it..... :D 

Don't think gums will work, plus all that slobbery over my back, yuck

 :D 

Now Didge, show some respect for the forum and don't be abusive.

Sassy wrote:What about a computer Didge.   Secondary school children these days can't do their homework without it, literally, as I found out when living with all my grandchildren.   Now, if they don't have a tv, they will watch programmes online, which still needs a tv licence.   So what you gonna do about that.   No computer so their education is harmed, because it will be, nearly all homework is set and done online now.

Holy crap, again, have you heard of a Library?

So now all children need a computer as well, bloody hell, do they have computers now for exams?
No wonder labour sent the country bankrupt!
You are telling me kids cannot be taught without a PC, utter bull!

PhilDidge wrote:

Sassy wrote:What about the children though, are they allowed nothing?   No books, no toys, no radio, no tv, no board games etc.   They have to suffer because they are poor right?   They don't have the same requirements as other children, they have done the most terrible thing and belong to a family on a low income.

Never hear of a library Sassy for books.
I never said they have to suffer and you can play many types of games without toys or board games.
Seriously essentials come first, again growing up as young I had no TV, we actually spent more time together as a family, learning, playing having fun and I certainly did not resent it. You are arguing at cross purposes here why they are poor, my view is on if they are poor what is needed to be done in that given situation!

Can't you read? Its not set by books. Its set online. You need to keep up with education. My grandson's computer went bang, and he was in real trouble trying to get homework done. You're not very up to date with latest education practices are you?

Sassy wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Don't think gums will work, plus all that slobbery over my back, yuck

 :D 

Now Didge, show some respect for the forum and don't be abusive.

  That was not abusive lol dear me

 :D 

Sassy wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Never hear of a library Sassy for books.
I never said they have to suffer and you can play many types of games without toys or board games.
Seriously essentials come first, again growing up as young I had no TV, we actually spent more time together as a family, learning, playing having fun and I certainly did not resent it. You are arguing at cross purposes here why they are poor, my view is on if they are poor what is needed to be done in that given situation!

Can't you read?   Its not set by books.   Its set online.   You need to keep up with education.   My grandson's computer went bang, and he was in real trouble trying to get homework done.   You're not very up to date with latest education practices are you?

Again a Library, is that you now not reading, can they stay on after school also to use facilities, which I know very well they can.
Sorry you are making poor excuses for non essentials and again you can print off things from online can you not, again absurd!

PhilDidge wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Can't you read?   Its not set by books.   Its set online.   You need to keep up with education.   My grandson's computer went bang, and he was in real trouble trying to get homework done.   You're not very up to date with latest education practices are you?

Again a Library, is that you now not reading, can they stay on after school also to use facilities, which I know very well they can.
Sorry you are making poor excuses for non essentials and again you can print off things from online can you not, again absurd!

They have to do the homework online, not read it. Anyway, its late, I'll leave you to get yourself up to date with present day school practices, which you appear to know nothing about.

Sassy wrote:What about the children though, are they allowed nothing?   No books, no toys, no radio, no tv, no board games etc.   They have to suffer because they are poor right?   They don't have the same requirements as other children, they have done the most terrible thing and belong to a family on a low income.

Well he was able to watch Michael Bentines potty time, so he had a TV to watch, when he was a kid, but he's said that he didn't have a TV at that age!  ::lies:: ::lies:: ::lies:: 

Sassy wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Again a Library, is that you now not reading, can they stay on after school also to use facilities, which I know very well they can.
Sorry you are making poor excuses for non essentials and again you can print off things from online can you not, again absurd!

They have to do the homework online, not read it.   Anyway, its late, I'll leave you to get yourself up to date with present day school practices, which you appear to know nothing about.

So you are telling me now it is essential that every school child has a PC at home as part of school policy?

Bullshit

Catman wrote:

Sassy wrote:What about the children though, are they allowed nothing?   No books, no toys, no radio, no tv, no board games etc.   They have to suffer because they are poor right?   They don't have the same requirements as other children, they have done the most terrible thing and belong to a family on a low income.

Well he was able to watch Michael Bentines potty time, so he had a TV to watch, when he was a kid, but he's said that he didn't have a TV at that age!  ::lies:: ::lies:: ::lies:: 

lol so I was never round at a friends house now and I also said what age we did get one, but then you never remember that part do you oddbod

Doh, give that man a prise for stupidity!

Sassy wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Again a Library, is that you now not reading, can they stay on after school also to use facilities, which I know very well they can.
Sorry you are making poor excuses for non essentials and again you can print off things from online can you not, again absurd!

They have to do the homework online, not read it.   Anyway, its late, I'll leave you to get yourself up to date with present day school practices, which you appear to know nothing about.

You are right there Sass!

You do have do be online to do your homework these days, is he expecting a kid to search out an internet cafe after they finish school?

...A home internet connection is far cheaper, and shouldn't the child be going home to have something to eat, if there is any food in the fridge of course!

actually Didge, Sass does have a point here...

how can a child in say a rural area, which may be miles from the school OR a library do the homework which, as she says is set AND is done online. She is quite right in her assertion that it requires to be done on line.
like it or not computers HAVE become almost "de rigueur" for kids these days..

I'll leave you with this from the University of Oxford:

UK teenagers without the internet are 'educationally disadvantaged'

http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2012/121222.html

PhilDidge wrote:

Catman wrote:

Well he was able to watch Michael Bentines potty time, so he had a TV to watch, when he was a kid, but he's said that he didn't have a TV at that age!  ::lies:: ::lies:: ::lies:: 

lol so I was never round at a friends house now and I also said what age we did get one, but then you never remember that part do you oddbod

Doh, give that man a prise for stupidity!

you had friends??????

Sassy wrote:I'll leave you with this from the University of Oxford:

UK teenagers without the internet are 'educationally disadvantaged'

http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2012/121222.html

 ://?roflmao?/: 


So its not policy then and I never said anything about being disadvantaged, which again a child can use PC in a library or at school

grumpy old git wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


lol so I was never round at a friends house now and I also said what age we did get one, but then you never remember that part do you oddbod

Doh, give that man a prise for stupidity!

you had friends??????

Coming from the man who seeks his own company I do find amusing in regards to friends, so which arm is bigger the left or the right

  

..It's a far safer, and relaxed environment, for a child to have a home internet connection, rather than to have to pay to get on buses, then they have to pay massive dollars for the privilege of being on line just for an hour or so.

There are no internet cafe's around here anyway.

grumpy old git wrote:actually Didge, Sass does have a point here...

how can a child in say a rural area, which may be miles from the school OR a library do the homework which, as she says is set AND is done online. She is quite right in her assertion that it requires to be done on line.
like it or not computers HAVE become almost "de rigueur" for kids these days..

Yes but not all children have to do work online do they now and if a kid does not have this facility then it is not possible is it now?
The reality is it is not policy but down to schools themselves, which is placing greater burden on parents, they are making it a necessity when it needs not to be.
Again no wonder if people are in debt with such policies

Children are disadvantaged without a computer because much of their coursework is set and done online. Learn something for once. Goodnight.

Sassy wrote:Children are disadvantaged without a computer because much of their coursework is set and done online.   Learn something for once.   Goodnight.

yes you keep saying that without actually posting the evidence that all kids need to.

Which years for a start, 5 year olds do their homework online now do they

Ok what decade is it in the UK?
why do you even have a TV license? it doesn't make sense. SO I in Australia get to view all your BBC productions for Free but you have to pay

and the computers thing, Jesus no wonder you got no economy, it is CHEAPER to supply a netbook and eBooks than to buy traditional printed text books, these Saving are magnified when Purchased in bulk by a gov't department. All NSW students get a netbook for the final 4 years of school, because it is was already 2009 (when this became policy) and it is more efficient and cheaper


You have to spend money to make money.... like they say      

veya_victaous wrote:Ok what decade is it in the UK?
why do you even have a TV license? it doesn't make sense. SO I in Australia get to view all your BBC productions for Free but you have to pay  

and the computers thing, Jesus no wonder you got no economy, it is CHEAPER to supply a netbook and eBooks than to buy traditional printed text books, these Saving are magnified when Purchased in bulk by a gov't department. All NSW students get a netbook for the final 4 years of school, because it is was already 2009 (when this became policy) and it is more efficient and cheaper


You have to spend money to make money.... like they say      

tell the wbankers in westminster....

PhilDidge wrote:

Sassy wrote:

They have to do the homework online, not read it.   Anyway, its late, I'll leave you to get yourself up to date with present day school practices, which you appear to know nothing about.

So you are telling me now it is essential that every school child has a PC at home as part of school policy?

Bullshit

Hate to point out Phil , BUT yes they do.
we are pushing for that here and I have been involved with some charities that supply PCs (donated by business rolling out new systems.) to underprivileged students. Your Kids will be even further behind next decade if you are not getting them online now. it's not ye'olden days 99% of business is done on Computers, it can easily be argued typing skills are more valuable than writing skills in this day and age.

what is required is not decided by what YOU had, it is decided by what your competitors are doing now. the point of education is to make your workforce more valuable by increasing its skill level. but that increase is relative to how much other nations have increased. do you think students in Korea, Taiwan, or Japan don't have computers at school?

veya_victaous wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


So you are telling me now it is essential that every school child has a PC at home as part of school policy?

Bullshit

Hate to point out Phil , BUT yes they do.
we are pushing for that here and I have been involved with some charities that supply PCs (donated by business rolling out new systems.) to underprivileged students.  Your Kids will be even further behind next decade if you are not getting them online now. it's not ye'olden days 99% of business is done on Computers, it can easily be argued typing skills are more valuable than writing skills in this day and age.

what is required is not decided by what YOU had, it is decided by what your competitors are doing now. the point of education is to make your workforce more valuable by increasing its skill level. but that increase is relative to how much other nations have increased. do you think students in Korea, Taiwan, or Japan don't have computers at school?

Computers at school is fine Veya, schools making parents fork out on Ipads for their children is not fine, if they cannot afford them, as the school have made the fact it is a necessity, I understand very well computers are the technology of the future but we also can become to reliant on computers something that is also missed. Computers are now a means to lack direct communication with people, missing valuable lessons in how to interact with each other they also give a false belief in empowerment in such communication.  Again this is about necessities that people do not need when poor. If some Schools have made it a necessity for some age groups of school kids to have  computers at home then that is a different ball game and it is placing further financial burden on people in regards to this debate. I am not against people understanding and using technology, but I also think kids can learn just as well from books on many subjects.

If as I say schools have made it a necessity, then better options to pay for them should be open to parents and again even then if you know you need one by a certain age for your child, then like anything you start saving in advance

Funny, you didn't say bullshit to Veya, I wonder why?   

Children need computers to keep up at school, computers can get tv, therefore if they watch tv on it, which they will, will need a licence. Point made.

Sassy wrote:Funny, you didn't say bullshit to Veya, I wonder why?   

Children need computers to keep up at school, computers can get tv, therefore if they watch tv on it, which they will, will need a licence.   Point made.

Now you really are scrapping the barrel, again only with certain years and certain schools is it a requirement to have a PC, which again is wrong, but this is not policy throughout. To then say they may watch TV on this they will need a licence is utter gobbledygook, so no point made that was utterly absurd.

Sassy wrote:Funny, you didn't say bullshit to Veya, I wonder why?   

Children need computers to keep up at school, computers can get tv, therefore if they watch tv on it, which they will, will need a licence.   Point made.

For studying - pretty much everything on the internet is in books at your local library.

At the library, and other centres, will be PC's for public use.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Sassy wrote:Funny, you didn't say bullshit to Veya, I wonder why?   

Children need computers to keep up at school, computers can get tv, therefore if they watch tv on it, which they will, will need a licence.   Point made.

For studying - pretty much everything on the internet is in books at your local library.

At the library, and other centres, will be PC's for public use.

Oh dear, someone else who is years behind in education.

Suggest you read the thread. Homework is set online, it is handed on by online methods and the study modules are online.