Black preacher shot dead

by magica Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:31 am

First topic message reminder :

A black preacher, who was stopped by cops, had his hands up, and his back to them, showing no threat at all, was tazered and then shot dead whilst on the ground! This was in Oklahoma.

Police said he was unarmed.

This is getting so bad now, he did nothing, wasnt threatening, down for the count and shot dead. Its so worrying that the police are so trigger happy. Why shoot him when he was down? I think its appalling.

http://news.sky.com/story/video-shows-unarmed-man-with-hands-up-being-shot-in-oklahoma-10585507

by Syl Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:05 pm

magica wrote:A black preacher, who was stopped by cops, had his hands up, and his back to them, showing no threat at all, was tazered and then shot dead whilst on the ground! This was in Oklahoma.

Police said he was unarmed.

This is getting so bad now, he did nothing, wasnt threatening, down for the count and shot dead. Its so worrying that the police are so trigger happy. Why shoot him when he was down? I think its appalling.

http://news.sky.com/story/video-shows-unarmed-man-with-hands-up-being-shot-in-oklahoma-10585507

One of the cops said he looked like a 'bad dude, and 'on something'....not sure how they came to that conclusion when the man was following their orders.
They tasered him....that should have been enough, they could have over powered him without shooting him dead.

by Original Quill Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:12 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Can you back up these 'facts' you are claiming with any credible evidence...!?

Thing is Quill... his vehicle is in the middle of the road for a start... if you are moving along in a vehicle and the engine cuts out, you would already have pulled to the side of the road as it rolled to a stop...

Also... vast majority of the other members of public in vehicles around him or passing by him at the time of 'breakdown' would have already stopped to help and move vehicle over to side of roadway if he had broken down in such an unfortunate position in the road...

Plus... the vehicle looks quite new and in good condition... hardly looking like a beat up old banger that was likely to have 'broken down'...!

There is no way this man had just simply broken down there in the road and was just trying to get help to move the vehicle to a safer position at side of carriageway...!

Try MSNBC...all of last night, the Bloomberg Report, Chris Matthews and Hardball, All In, with Chris Hayes and the Rachael Maddow Show. Also, a bit of The Last Word, with Lawrence O'Donnell, at 11 pm. Various NBC clips are available here: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/disturbing-helicopter-footage-shows-oklahoma-police-kill-unarmed-man-n650866

The officer who did the shooting, Betty Shelby, has received first prize...a paid vacation with all expenses covered, and so she is not available for the time being.

by JulesV Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:08 pm

Being a cop is a very dangerous job. Everybody knows this!! No one is forced to join the police force, it's purely a voluntary choice, not conscription.

If you're a cop and stopping motorists puts you on edge - to the extent that you make fatal wrong decisions - you are in the wrong job. It is not a career for nervous, jittery, or highly strung types. Clear your desk, hand in your weapon and badge and go seek a job in the local library or creche, instead.

by JulesV Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:13 pm

'Shoot to kill' should always be a last resort but a nervous cop will always shoot as a first resort when push comes to shove, regardless of their long periods of intensive training.

A nervous, jittery cop is a disaster, he will shoot everyone, of all colours, even in avoidable situations! This is a career for the seriously brave. You need nerves of steel.

by Tommy Monk Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:06 pm

So now the police pulled him over...?

His vehicle didn't 'break down'...?

by veya_victaous Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:30 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
magica wrote:
Major wrote:Police have a dangerous job in the USA with millionz of gunz on the streetz.
They are on edge when stopping people, particularly blacks.

They are shooting blacks without any provocation though Major. He had his hands up, un armed and tazered, so couldn't move. There was no justification for this. Im finding this so upsetting, its happening so much now.
not as much as other blacks shooting each other though.
do black lives only matter when a policeman shoots them?

obviously these officers need to be investigated and charged

are you really that Dumb?
What is the correlation there?
like what point Do you think you are making?
other than you are a racist with low intellect.

More non-police white kill more non-police whites too, relevance ZERO

Police State sanctioned employees paid to serve and protect murdering people IS A MUCH FUCKING BIGGER DEAL
and COMPLETELTY SEPERATE from General Crime.

by Tommy Monk Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:09 pm

"...In Tulsa, the police said investigators found the drug PCP in the shooting victim’s S.U.V. The drug is known to induce erratic behavior in some users. But Mr. Crump, who is representing the family of the victim, Terence Crutcher..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/22/us/keith-scott-charlotte-police-shooting.html

by Original Quill Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:21 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

"...In Tulsa, the police said investigators found the drug PCP in the shooting victim’s S.U.V. The drug is known to induce erratic behavior in some users. But Mr. Crump, who is representing the family of the victim, Terence Crutcher..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/22/us/keith-scott-charlotte-police-shooting.html

The latest report on this side of the pond is only that Shelby was a "drug recognition expert" and she thought he might be on drugs:

GMA wrote:At this point, Shelby, a drug recognition expert, believed Crutcher was "on something," Wood said, possibly PCP.

I have no idea what a drug recognition expert is, and it might be someone who visited a hospital once or twice. In any case, it appears she was guesstimating he was on drugs.

No tests have reportedly revealed any drugs in the victim's system.

by eddie Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:22 pm

You don't shoot to kill on a guesstimate.

by Tommy Monk Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:27 pm

You don't disobey orders of armed police and start reaching into a car that might be for a gun or setting off explosives...

If he had done what he was told then he wouldn't have been shot.

by Original Quill Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:33 pm

eddie wrote:You don't shoot to kill on a guesstimate.

Exactly. It bothers me that we have departed from the standards of using a firearm in the case of law enforcement officers. It is the same as for all people: basically the person has to pose a threat to your person, or that of another. We seem to be cleaving out a doctrine that says police are special cases...and they can be excused if they were excited or miscalculating.

NO THEY CAN'T. Any normal person in Ofc. Shelby's position would be in custody right now, instead of taking a paid vacation on the Redneck Riviera. We seem to be saying that police can be forgiven if they were having a bad day. They are given special training for such occasions, and as Jules said, they need to seek other employment if they can't stand the heat.

The standard is the same, and those who can't abide by that should be flipping hamburgers or fixing flat tires.

by eddie Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:37 pm

I agree. Being a police officer is s tough job, I get that, but there are too many "mistaken shootings" "guesstimate shootings" "I-simply-panicked shootings".

Too many.

by Andy Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:17 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

You don't disobey orders of armed police and start reaching into a car that might be for a gun or setting off explosives...

If he had done what he was told then he wouldn't have been shot.

Fuck me, is Crutcher the American Dynamo?
He is the only other person I have seen reach into a car through a CLOSED window and retrieve an item.
As far as I know, no American cars have window winder handles on the outside.
Of course, he might have had a camouflaged gun on the outside.

by Tommy Monk Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:21 pm

Yeah... the window was closed and hie s car just broke down and he was just trying to push it out the way...

by Original Quill Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Yeah... the window was closed and hie s car just broke down and he was just trying to push it out the way...

Now you've got it, tommy. Work it... Work through all the excuses and justifications...all flack to avoid the consequences.

This particular cop committed a criminal act. That, by definition, makes her a criminal. She's not innocent because she is white....not innocent because she wore a uniform...no way out of it. Criminal.

by Andy Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:56 am

It seems even the police and prosecutors think she has a case to answer for.
Charged with manslaughter
http://news.sky.com/story/tulsa-police-officer-charged-after-unarmed-terence-crutcher-shot-dead-10589014.
If found guilty, will, Tom say its a miscarriage of justice?.
Also here.
http://dailym.ai/2cKxZtr

As for 'finding' drugs in the car upon searching it, police do have history of planting guns and drugs to acquire 'evidence '.

by Spindleshanks Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:15 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Yeah... the window was closed and hie s car just broke down and he was just trying to push it out the way...

The window was shut. The blood is evident on the photo on here

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/terence-crutcher-shooting-death-us-policewoman-claims-unarmed-black-man-putting-hands-in-car-a7320316.html

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:24 pm

I watched the live footage and the window looked open to me because it looked darker than the rear passenger window next to it, the rear window had a shine to it like it was reflecting, the drivers window didn't look shiny/reflective.

by Andy Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:28 pm

Admit it Tom.
You called it wrong. He wasn't reaching through the window because it was shut. He was unarmed. She shot him dead.
She has been charged with manslaughter. Still defending her?

by Spindleshanks Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:28 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I watched the live footage and the window looked open to me because it looked darker than the rear passenger window next to it, the rear window had a shine to it like it was reflecting, the drivers window didn't look shiny/reflective.

Is that a roundabout way of saying you were wrong?

by eddie Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:32 pm

Hallo spindleshanks, good to see you again.

by Spindleshanks Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:34 pm

eddie wrote:Hallo spindleshanks, good to see you again.

Hello Eddie Smile

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:57 pm

Spindleshanks wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:I watched the live footage and the window looked open to me because it looked darker than the rear passenger window next to it, the rear window had a shine to it like it was reflecting, the drivers window didn't look shiny/reflective.

Is that a roundabout way of saying you were wrong?

The video I watched looked very much like the window was open.

But let's look at the reason why police were there in the first place...

911 call reported man running from vehicle

Two 911 calls brought officers to the scene around 7:30 p.m. Friday.

The first came from a woman who said an abandoned vehicle was blocking the street and a man was running away, warning that it was going to blow up.

“Somebody left their vehicle running in the middle of the street with their doors wide open,” the caller said. “The doors are open, the vehicle is still running. It’s an SUV. It’s in the middle of the street, it’s blocking traffic.”

Any bomb threats are taken very seriously!

He could well have been trying to trigger an explosive device!

And the car was not stalled/broken down at all!!!

by Andy Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:50 pm

He was guilty in Tom's eyes because he was black.

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:57 pm

Did you read the 911 call report?

He had stopped his car in the middle of road (with engine running!) and jumped out leaving door open and was running about shouting that the vehicle was going to explode!!!

by Spindleshanks Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:23 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Spindleshanks wrote:

Is that a roundabout way of saying you were wrong?

The video I watched looked very much like the window was open.

But let's look at the reason why police were there in the first place...

911 call reported man running from vehicle

Two 911 calls brought officers to the scene around 7:30 p.m. Friday.

The first came from a woman who said an abandoned vehicle was blocking the street and a man was running away, warning that it was going to blow up.

“Somebody left their vehicle running in the middle of the street with their doors wide open,” the caller said. “The doors are open, the vehicle is still running. It’s an SUV. It’s in the middle of the street, it’s blocking traffic.”

Any bomb threats are taken very seriously!

He could well have been trying to trigger an explosive device!

And the car was not stalled/broken down at all!!!

No one disputes the fact the police were there for a reason, the dispute is that the claim was made he was reaching into an open window. The relevant part about this is not that the police were there, it is the fact he was shot and the reason why he was shot.

The claim the window was open has, based on that photo, shown not to be the truth. The claim he was reaching into an open window also cannot be true if the window was shut.

by Spindleshanks Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:25 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Did you put read the 911 call report?

He had stopped his car in the middle of road (with engine running!) and jumped out leaving door open and was running about shouting that the vehicle was going to explode!!!

That isn't the reason he was shot though and the door was shut when he was shot. As was the window.

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:35 pm

I don't believe that photo you talk of... I'm not convinced it hasn't been altered... plus the claim is coming from the same people who were lying about the car being stalled!!!

The engine was running when he stopped and got out and was running about shouting the car was going to explode!!!

I watched the video and the window looked open to me.

Plus if you watch the helicopter footage from above, you can see he had dropped his arms and was trying to do something by the door!

The police were dealing with a man behaving very strangely and making threats of explosives in vehicle... he was not doing as he was told... he was moving back to the car after bring repeatedly told to stop... then he starts going for the car door and window...!

I am not at all surprised he was shot in these circumstances!!!

by Spindleshanks Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:01 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I don't believe that photo you talk of... I'm not convinced it hasn't been altered... plus the claim is coming from the same people who were lying about the car being stalled!!!

The engine was running when he stopped and got out and was running about shouting the car was going to explode!!!

I watched the video and the window looked open to me.

Plus if you watch the helicopter footage from above, you can see he had dropped his arms and was trying to do something by the door!

The police were dealing with a man behaving very strangely and making threats of explosives in vehicle... he was not doing as he was told... he was moving back to the car after bring repeatedly told to stop... then he starts going for the car door and window...!

I am not at all surprised he was shot in these circumstances!!!

I've just watched it again, this time frame by frame. The window is clearly closed.

Can you link me to the audio where he was being repeatedly told to stop. Is there actually any evidence that the female police officer even said anything to him?

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:09 pm

Looks open to me...

And...

"Scott Wood, an attorney representing Shelby, says people should reserve judgment until all the facts about the case come out. There’s more to the story, he says, than the videos show.

Before the cameras started rolling, Wood says, Shelby sensed that something seemed off about Crutcher.

“He had a very hollow look in his face, kind of a thousand-yard stare, so to speak, and would not communicate. And she could tell he was not normal. She thought that when she saw him,” he said.

She had yelled repeatedly that he should get down and stop walking, Wood said..."

by Spindleshanks Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Looks open to me...

And...

"Scott Wood, an attorney representing Shelby, says people should reserve judgment until all the facts about the case come out. There’s more to the story, he says, than the videos show.

Before the cameras started rolling, Wood says, Shelby sensed that something seemed off about Crutcher.

“He had a very hollow look in his face, kind of a thousand-yard stare, so to speak, and would not communicate. And she could tell he was not normal. She thought that when she saw him,” he said.

She had yelled repeatedly that he should get down and stop walking, Wood said..."

That is what she will have told him, she has been charged remember. But did she say this at all?

It seems that she didn't activate her dash cam for some reason so with all due respect, it's going to be difficult to determine what happened between them prior to his walking back to the car.

However, the fact is she shot him when there was no need to. It seems that the whoever is responsible for bringing charges feel that she did so inappropriately as she has been charged with manslaughter.

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:20 pm

And on video at 44 seconds in... helicopter cop says he's still walking and not following instructions.

Watch from 39 seconds onwards on pause and clicking frame by frame...

Looks like window was open to me...

And when man is along side car you can see reflection of his white t shirt on rear window but nothing by drivers side window!!!

Only explanation is window was open!!!

by Spindleshanks Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:23 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:And on video at 44 seconds in... helicopter cop says he's still walking and not following instructions.

Watch from 39 seconds onwards on pause and clicking frame by frame...

Looks like window was open to me...

And when nan is along side car you can see reflection of his white t shirt on rear window but nothing by drivers side window!!!

Only explanation is window was open!!!

Do you think the people in the helicopter could hear what was being said on the ground? Is it possible that was an assumption?

When you look further frame by frame you can see the shine from the closed window.

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:36 pm

I don't see shine from drivers window... and no reflection of white t shirt when it can be seen in rear window reflection.

But besides this... he was acting very strangely and aggressively, making explosion threats... he was not following orders, then he goes back to car and starts going for the window/door...

Given what was going on... it is perfectly reasonable for police to presume he was going for a weapon or trying to set off explosives!

by magica Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:40 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I don't see shine from drivers window... and no reflection of white t shirt when it can be seen in rear window reflection.

But besides this... he was acting very strangely and aggressively, making explosion threats... he was not following orders, then he goes back to car and starts going for the window/door...

Given what was going on... it is perfectly reasonable for police to presume he was going for a weapon or trying to set off explosives!

The thing is he was lasered, so couldn't move anyway, so why did she shoot him? He couldn't let off anything when he cant move.

by Original Quill Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:51 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Did you read the 911 call report?

He had stopped his car in the middle of road (with engine running!) and jumped out leaving door open and was running about shouting that the vehicle was going to explode!!!

Hearsay, tommy. It’s second- and third-hand comments, at least. The only time that 911 recordings are permitted in evidence is when one of the parties is on the call.

Tommy Monk wrote:Any bomb threats are taken very seriously!

…including, presumably, the possibility that there is no bomb.

Is there a bomb? Or isn’t there? It’s a pretty bad bomb squad that can’t include a negative possibility in their response.

And of course there was no bomb.

Tommy Monk wrote:The engine was running when he stopped and got out and was running about shouting the car was going to explode!!!

Of course he didn’t do that. That comes from the hearsay sources. It was a simple case of automobile trouble.

Tommy Monk wrote:I watched the video and the window looked open to me.

Tommy Monk wrote:Plus if you watch the helicopter footage from above, you can see he had dropped his arms and was trying to do something by the door!

Tommy Monk wrote:The police were dealing with a man behaving very strangely and making threats of explosives in vehicle... he was not doing as he was told... he was moving back to the car after bring repeatedly told to stop... then he starts going for the car door and window...!

You can’t invent your own facts, tommy. It’s no different than lying.

Tommy Monk wrote:I am not at all surprised he was shot in these circumstances!!!

Which is why we are all lucky you are in no position of authority. You could be quite dangerous.

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:51 pm

Taser doesn't always work... may have been deployed but if one of the probes doesn't go into skin then don't work.

And spindle... there were other police on the scene too... I'm sure they will confirm that instructions to stop etc were being shouted at him.

by Andy Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:51 pm

Give up Magica. Tom has a closed mind when it comes to white cops slaying unarmed black guys. The black guys are all guilty in his opinion, because they are black.
At least Tom is happy as there is one less black man in society. Tom is the image of his Nazi lookalike avatar cat.

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:54 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Did you read the 911 call report?

He had stopped his car in the middle of road (with engine running!) and jumped out leaving door open and was running about shouting that the vehicle was going to explode!!!

Hearsay, tommy. It’s second- and third-hand comments, at least. The only time that 911 recordings are permitted in evidence is when one of the parties is on the call.

Tommy Monk wrote:Any bomb threats are taken very seriously!

…including, presumably, the possibility that there is no bomb.

Is there a bomb? Or isn’t there? It’s a pretty bad bomb squad that can’t include a negative possibility in their response.

And of course there was no bomb.

Tommy Monk wrote:The engine was running when he stopped and got out and was running about shouting the car was going to explode!!!

Of course he didn’t do that. That comes from the hearsay sources. It was a simple case of automobile trouble.

Tommy Monk wrote:I watched the video and the window looked open to me.

Tommy Monk wrote:Plus if you watch the helicopter footage from above, you can see he had dropped his arms and was trying to do something by the door!

Tommy Monk wrote:The police were dealing with a man behaving very strangely and making threats of explosives in vehicle... he was not doing as he was told... he was moving back to the car after bring repeatedly told to stop... then he starts going for the car door and window...!

You can’t invent your own facts, tommy. It’s no different than lying.

Tommy Monk wrote:I am not at all surprised he was shot in these circumstances!!!

Which is why we are all lucky you are in no position of authority. You could be quite dangerous.

Ah... and mister twister has rolled into town...

by Guest Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:56 pm

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I think Jay just about covers it..

by Original Quill Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:57 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:And spindle... there were other police on the scene too... I'm sure they will confirm that instructions to stop etc were being shouted at him.

The last person you want to believe is another police officer, when a fellow officer's conduct is questioned. It's called the BLUE WALL of SILENCE, and it mean lookout for the bullshit. The first priority is to lie, and the second priority to to compare notes so the concocted stories match.

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:59 pm

Yeah right sassy... and some twat on twitter never makes shit up do they...?

Look at the bloody 911 call..!!!

The man was running around shouting that car was going to explode!!!

by Original Quill Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:04 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Yeah right sassy... and some twat on twitter never makes shit up do they...?

Look at the bloody 911 call..!!!

The man was running around shouting that car was going to explode!!!

Tommy you are the biggest FABRICATOR of all. Talk about pot...black. Rolling Eyes

You have nothing but speculation, faux rigged photographs. hearsay, and 'could have been's...' So phony.

by Spindleshanks Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:05 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I don't see shine from drivers window... and no reflection of white t shirt when it can be seen in rear window reflection.

But besides this... he was acting very strangely and aggressively, making explosion threats... he was not following orders, then he goes back to car and starts going for the window/door...

Given what was going on... it is perfectly reasonable for police to presume he was going for a weapon or trying to set off explosives!

I've just taken this screenshot from a video off Utube. If that window was open you would be able to see clearly through it and the seat inside. You can't, it's blurry like there is a window or something obscuring the inside.

Black preacher shot dead - Page 2 Terenc10

Black preacher shot dead - Page 2 Terenc10

by eddie Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:07 pm

The window is shut. Just like Tommy's mind.

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:15 pm

The video I've seen the window looks open.

But it matters not...

The police were coming from behind the vehicle and he was in the way of the window...

But from the video it is clear that he did drop his arms and looked to be going for the window/door...

After reportedly making threats that car was going to explode, and his failure to stop and surrender and get away from vehicle etc, then I'm not surprised the police shot him!!!

It's not because he's black or the police were white or any of that bollocks!!!

I would say the same regardless of that!!!

by Spindleshanks Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:19 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

The video I've seen the window looks open.

But it matters not...

The police were coming from behind the vehicle and he was in the way of the window...

But from the video it is clear that he did drop his arms and looked to be going for the window/door...

After reportedly making threats that car was going to explode, and his failure to stop and surrender and get away from vehicle etc, then I'm not surprised the police shot him!!!

It's not because he's black or the police were white or any of that bollocks!!!

I would say the same regardless of that!!!

The still I posted is from the same video that everyone will have seen, the one taken from the helicopter.

Of course it matters if it was closed or not, it's one of the reasons made for shooting him, he was apparently leaning into an open window. In fact, clearly he wasn't leaning into anything and the window was shut.

by Original Quill Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:22 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
The video I've seen the window looks open.

But it matters not...

The police were coming from behind the vehicle and he was in the way of the window...

But from the video it is clear that he did drop his arms and looked to be going for the window/door...

After reportedly making threats that car was going to explode, and his failure to stop and surrender and get away from vehicle etc, then I'm not surprised the police shot him!!!

It's not because he's black or the police were white or any of that bollocks!!!

I would say the same regardless of that!!!

None of that is true. You keep speaking of the 'video you've seen...'

Why don't you post it? Either put up proof, or accept the role of a fabricator.

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:24 pm

Spindleshanks wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

The video I've seen the window looks open.

But it matters not...

The police were coming from behind the vehicle and he was in the way of the window...

But from the video it is clear that he did drop his arms and looked to be going for the window/door...

After reportedly making threats that car was going to explode, and his failure to stop and surrender and get away from vehicle etc, then I'm not surprised the police shot him!!!

It's not because he's black or the police were white or any of that bollocks!!!

I would say the same regardless of that!!!

The still I posted is from the same video that everyone will have seen, the one taken from the helicopter.

Of course it matters if it was closed or not, it's one of the reasons made for shooting him, he was apparently leaning into an open window. In fact, clearly he wasn't leaning into anything and the window was shut.

So you say...

The video I saw it looks open... reflection on rear window of man's white t shirt but nothing on drivers side window.

But regardless of that... from the angle where police were... it looked like he was reaching at window/door... and that is enough after everything else!!!

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:25 pm

The video is in the op link.

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