Some questions about Brexit, and what I think about it

First topic message reminder :

I'd welcome answers from anyone. I'm just (like many other people, around the world and in the UK) trying to better understand why this happened.

1) Why did British people feel the UK had to leave the EU? Please be as specific as possible about how EU membership created more harm than benefit for the UK.

2) What laws were imposed upon the UK, against the will of the British, by the EU?

3) For Brexit supporters -- if you could choose the top priorities for post-EU Britain, what would they be?

My position is that I support democracy, self-determination and freedom of expression. However, just like individuals, people acting in groups don't always make the wisest decisions. My country elected Bush for president in 2004. The hope for democracy is not that it will be perfect in the short term, but self-correcting in the long term.

I conclude that Brexit was unwise not because I am opposed to democracy, freedom, self-determination or free expression, or because I hate the British and want to see them under Europe's thumb, but because of the economic consequences of the decision. The devaluation of the pound, the hits to global stocks and the lowered credit rating issued by Moody's show that my concern is not unfounded.

Economic experts have said there's a chance that Brexit could kick off another global recession, and listening to the opinions of people who know what they're talking about does not make me a negative or selfish person.

Finally, the reason democracy exists in the first place is because people don't always agree. If you value democracy, therefore, you must accept the fact that people are allowed to disagree with you.

however since you ask...

my father fought for the side that STOPPED european union in 1945

otherwise much to your delight no doubt we would have been part of a greater europe...

now..aside from the fact that bringing individual members family into your peurile argument is against the rules
and making snidy "suggestions" via backhanded "questions" WILL get you banned... hence my warning...


the far more relevant question still remains ...what would YOU have done at THAT time

wore a brown shirt perhaps...

you are an insidiuous little traitor to your own people and like most lefties utterly underhand and cowardly...
fitted with a big gob and little brain....and bereft of ideas.


as to my user name...I cant help it if you are so illiterate as to not know the reference..

you have made one comment I have had to mod...

having made the insinuation you just did.....

dont make any more mistakes ...ok

Just noticed the name change HA. Are you twelve?

Ben Reilly wrote:I'd welcome answers from anyone. I'm just (like many other people, around the world and in the UK) trying to better understand why this happened.

1) Why did British people feel the UK had to leave the EU? Please be as specific as possible about how EU membership created more harm than benefit for the UK.
2) What laws were imposed upon the UK, against the will of the British, by the EU?
3) For Brexit supporters -- if you could choose the top priorities for post-EU Britain, what would they be?
My position is that I support democracy, self-determination and freedom of expression. However, just like individuals, people acting in groups don't always make the wisest decisions. My country elected Bush for president in 2004. The hope for democracy is not that it will be perfect in the short term, but self-correcting in the long term.

I conclude that Brexit was unwise not because I am opposed to democracy, freedom, self-determination or free expression, or because I hate the British and want to see them under Europe's thumb, but because of the economic consequences of the decision. The devaluation of the pound, the hits to global stocks and the lowered credit rating issued by Moody's show that my concern is not unfounded.

Economic experts have said there's a chance that Brexit could kick off another global recession, and listening to the opinions of people who know what they're talking about does not make me a negative or selfish person.

Finally, the reason democracy exists in the first place is because people don't always agree. If you value democracy, therefore, you must accept the fact that people are allowed to disagree with you.

Trying to make 'heads or tails' about this issue from what I'm reading and the impact that the vote has had on my 401k {and it's still taking a bite into my funds} ...the rational of reading most of the angst post of those voting 'OUT' VS the few that chose the 'IN/Stay' vote has been hard to find truth and reasoning when the 'OUT' rhetoric is just so vile and with little to zero rational thought - {LF be the exception} ...but the 'follow the pack' mentality about this issue is scary and sad at the same time!

I've tried to find a 'exit poll' for this chaotic vote and haven't been able too but I did find a decent enough 'Fact Checking Source' that many might have been able to use in order to wade through the political lies and utter BS that was perpetrated by both sides in their hidden agenda to sway your votes > https://fullfact.org 

I was specifically looking for when the influx of immigration became a problem for your labor issue ...especially since this was part of the EU ratification long before the Muslims/refugee chaos ensued and I've found some interesting data >  

It is correct that the UK's EU membership allows other EU nationals (and those in the EEA countries of Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein) to look for work in this country, as well as allowing Brits to take jobs in Europe.
According to the EU's official statisticians, there were 26.4 million people who were unemployed across the 28 nations of the EU in 2013. Of these, 2.4 million were located in Britain.
https://fullfact.org/europe/jobs-laws-and-eurocrats-ukips-european-election-posters/

It seems that prior to this hysteria driven issue with the Muslims the real immigration issue began back in 2004, with the immigration of polish labor work force into Britain soil. >  

Survey.
According to Madeleine Sumption, director of the Migration Observatory at Oxford University, in the last quarter of 2015, the unemployment rate for Poles was 3.5 percent, while the national rate stood at 5 percent.
Sumption cautioned us on the numbers, noting that as in the United States, the unemployment rate is based on a survey. Polish immigrants represent a little over 1 percent of the total population of the United Kingdom.
“The numbers hop around a bit from quarter to quarter,” Sumption cautioned. That’s due to the small number of Poles in the survey, “but it has always been the case that Poles have lower unemployment than Brits.”
The gap has been consistent. We used the labor survey from the first quarter of 2015 and got results similar to Sumption. Further confirmation comes from a 2011 Office of National Statistics report that found Polish unemployment was 5.5 percent back when the overall British rate was 7.8 percent.
While Miliband had his numbers right, his statistic missed one of the major complaints against the Poles—that their presence makes life harder for the average British worker. When Poland, along with seven other Eastern and Central European countries, joined the European Union in 2004, the United Kingdom was one of only three nations that allowed the newcomers to come and work immediately.
Over the years, more than half a million Poles arrived. In the 2010 European parliament elections, the pushback in Britain was palpable. The U.K. Independence Party, a right-leaning group, made immigration control a key issue, running ads that claimed immigrants were driving wages down.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/26/brexit-voters-had-the-wrong-idea-about-immigration-and-unemployment.html

So this was such an OPEN DOOR POLICY back then; your labor force had Polish workers coming into England and you were sending your skilled work force out to other countries for their specific job skills and everything was running relatively smooth as silk...
Sure there were negative fear mongering adds being generated about those "POLES taking your jobs and driving wages down" but how much truth was there in those adds?  Did it bother anyone enough to 'FACT CHECK' those ads    Or just allow the hysteria to gradually build and percolate until it really had a head of steam to boil over?

I read some of the feed back from those 25 - 40 yr olds that had voted 'OUT' but had voters remorse and the #1 that struck me as ironic was from this ...30 something from the strongest region for getting 'OUT' - works in a foreign country that he may very well be losing his very livelihood job because his opinion about those foreign workers were costing him so many 'freebie benefits over in his homeland' {yes, I paraphrased} ; well that was what he'd been told  
Now he's so afraid that he's going to be OUT OF WORK and there isn't his skilled jobs open in the UK due to no construction going on! 
Interesting, and I do feel for him ...but where was his need to be properly informed pre-vote?

Tommy Monk wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:LOL

FTA don't happen over night
this is exactly what I am talking about
it took 20 years to get that deal
started the ground work back in '93

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Keating

"...Mr Abbott and China's commerce minister Gao Hucheng signed the deal in Canberra today following a decade of negotiations..."


http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-17/australia-and-china-sign-free-trade-agreement/6552940

yeah the RW liberal party often try and not point out the LW Labour party is involved in good stuff

1993, is when the history books say, was when it started It did not start with Abbott or Howard no matter how much the RW Liberal party want to pretend it did

Tommy Monk wrote:And China deal was only in place in 2015...

And details not entirely good for you lot...


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-17/china-australia-free-trade-agreement-pros-and-cons/6553680

You just highlighted the problme with Your Opinion

IT is a trade deal it is NOT MEANT OT BE ALL GOOD FOR YOU
there has to be give and take.

this is why the half assed 'plans' of the leave party are laughable
as if you lot have any chance of getting any trade deals

nicko wrote:I bear no responsibility for any "invasion"   carried out by my Father or any other deceased relative.     So why the fuck do people keep on about what the Brits did before I was born.



I bear no responsibility for what my Father or other long time dead relative did in the past,   so shut the fuck up about it.

Cause You do !!!!
and trying to Bullshit you way out of it with pathetic excuse just makes it worse
Don't want the responsibility EMPTY the museums! you already spent the money so own up to trillions in debts for the resources the UK stole to build the shit heap you lot are now running into oblivion.

SHUT THE FUCK UP or tell me what I could do about it when I was not here you ignorant pillock.

veya_victaous wrote:

nicko wrote:I bear no responsibility for any "invasion"   carried out by my Father or any other deceased relative.     So why the fuck do people keep on about what the Brits did before I was born.



I bear no responsibility for what my Father or other long time dead relative did in the past,   so shut the fuck up about it.

Cause You do !!!!
and trying to Bullshit you way out of it with pathetic excuse just makes it worse
Don't want the responsibility EMPTY the museums! you already spent the money so own up to trillions in debts for the resources the UK stole to build the shit heap you lot are now running into oblivion.

You really need to stop this - it's verging on harassment.

I can't say what I think of Veya, i'd be banned, but I can say he's so far up his own arse he can see daylight through his teeth!!!

If you voted out because of "unelected politicians" then well done because we're about to get an unelected Prime Minister.

If you voted out because of immigration then well done, because you just lost the right of free movement too. Just wait 'til you have to get a visa to go to Glasgow or Belfast.

If you voted out because people were "stealing your jobs" then well done, because you're about to see Germany and France "steal" Nissan and a bunch of other companies who only manufacture here as a gateway to the EU market.

If you voted out because you think we'll get a great trade deal with the EEA "like Norway did", think again. Take a look around your Sainsbury's Local and try and find any fruit and veg that's grown in the UK. We need them more than they need us, and like the EEA, we'll have to accept EU policies like free movement as part of a trade deal anyway - except now we won't be able to have any say in them.

If you voted out because of vague scaremongering headlines like "Migrant Crisis" then please, feel free to remind me when it was that Syria joined the EU.

If you voted out because Farage promised £350m for the NHS, then I'm sure you'll be happy to watch him on This Morning revealing that that was a lie.

If you voted out and you're heading into retirement, then great job! Because now the working people of this nation will break their backs to afford your pension without the influx of young, economically active and skilled EU migrants.

If you voted out because you think we'll be better off, the £ has just fallen by 8% against the dollar. And if you voted out because you love this country, prepare to see it crumble, with threats of a unified Ireland and an independent Scotland just hours after the result was confirmed.

Well done, Britain.

If you voted out because you do not want to be governed by faceless eurocrats who don't give a fcuk about Britain and just want us to dance to their tune and keep giving them money, some of witch they give us back as long as they tell us hoe to spend it. If you want to wait two weeks for a doctors appointment,unable to get your child into a good school because they are full up, then vote stay!!

nicko wrote:If you voted out because you do not want to be governed by faceless eurocrats who don't give a fcuk about Britain and just want us to dance to their tune and keep giving them money, some of witch they give us back as long as they tell us hoe to spend it. If you want to wait two weeks for a doctors appointment,unable to get your child into a good school  because they are full up,  then vote stay!!

Lol Nicko and you think leave will change all that?

Rofl!!!!!!!!

It may be for the better Sexy, no one really knows yet. I THINK WE SHOULD WAIT A FEW MONTHS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS, IF IT GOES TITS UP IL'L ADMIT I WAS WRONG.

[CAPS STUCK AGAIN]

veya_victaous wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Who do you mean by 'everyone else'...!?


Not something the British people have ever been told... not something the British people have ever agreed to... not something the British people have ever voted for or given consent for!!!


In fact... that is exactly what we have been constantly getting told that it wasnt/isn't and never would be!!!


So technically our current position of being in the eu is based on lies and totally without the consent of the british people... therefore illegal and invalid!

well anyone looking on internationally did.
it is the obvious thing to do for Europe to retain relevance into the next century, as a federated nation it would have been economically toe to toe with the USA and China.
And Even China and the USA are looking at making larger Unions.
anyone smaller is trying to hitch a ride into one of them.
and then here is the UK trying to go on it's own


@Vic and Eddie
Yes I understand these are the reasons people chose national Seppuku.
I compleltely disagree with such short sighted foolishness.
rather than attempt to change it, to work with the hand you have been dealt
you have choosen to throw the game in since you didn't like your hand.
You expect to be dealt another and expect it to be better when it clearly will not be

the problem is you have had too good a hand in the past and cannot accept the cards you are currently dealt.

this could be an opportunity if you had a plan, but you don't.
Instead you have a bunch of day dreams that involve completely unlikely actions by other nations.
and pretends you still have the power and possessions of the past.

when america joins canada and mexico with the capitol in mexico city and the laws created there then you might be more able to comment from experience. , or in your case indonesia and japan I suppose.

nicko wrote:It may be for the better Sexy,   no one really knows yet.   I THINK WE SHOULD WAIT A FEW MONTHS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS,   IF IT GOES TITS UP IL'L ADMIT I WAS WRONG.

[CAPS STUCK AGAIN]

Yes let's wait and see.

x

veya_victaous wrote:And Tommy?
I mean you expect nations that are formed of british invasions to really think a peasent's agreement matters?

YES i hear you, dont care, zero sympathy like just about everyone else in the world. very few people other than Brits would be so concieted to think they are going to get a say.

And you have had your say and that is the point as well, Most of the world is treating this as the UK wants out ALL economic blocks and trade nto just eh EU, Cause no one has much interest in forming the sort of "trade only" isolated deals you want they are so last century.
we are all forming Economic Unions that are generally acknowledged to be the start of a singular governace.

I seem to recall that you are entirely in favour of keeping the aborigine's in their place in australia. didn't you once refer to them as almost sub human, or was it all just drunks.

Ben Reilly wrote:Thanks to all for their input, but in the words of U2, I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

Was there a slap-in-the-face moment where the UK realized the EU wasn't right for it? I understand that things don't always fit into narratives like that, but I'm curious as to whether there was.

I'd like to go beyond the abstract here. I want to know what things Brexiters felt the EU was actively doing that caused tangible harm to the UK.

From what I've seen, people don't generally take drastic action until something is done that directly affects their personal lives or their livelihood. I'm really looking for that moment when the British decided, OK, the EU might keep the trains running on time but this (other thing) is something up with which we must not put!

thats because you dont have an open mind. you only accept what you want, much like those who lost the referendum.

nicko wrote:Veya's still on about British "invasions"   The only invasion I remember is when we " invaded"  France to kick out the Germans.

no doubt he/she/it will be handing over the deeds to to any property he/she/it own to the first aborigines she meets and apologising profusely for oppressing them for 250years., its an odd argument to use when you live in a country founded by "invaders"

sassy wrote:

nicko wrote:Veya's still on about British "invasions"   The only invasion I remember is when we " invaded"  France to kick out the Germans.

British have invaded nine out of ten countries - so look out Luxembourg

Britain has invaded all but 22 countries in the world in its long and colourful history, new research has found.

58K

852

405

59K

Email

21 of the 22 countries that have not been invaded by Britain


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9653497/British-have-invaded-nine-out-of-ten-countries-so-look-out-Luxembourg.html

and the world was a better place for it. India for instance wasn't even a country when the british took over, it was a group of warring principalities. Pretty much everywhere the british went is better for it. can the same be said for the russian empire

eddie wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:Thanks to all for their input, but in the words of U2, I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

Was there a slap-in-the-face moment where the UK realized the EU wasn't right for it? I understand that things don't always fit into narratives like that, but I'm curious as to whether there was.

I'd like to go beyond the abstract here. I want to know what things Brexiters felt the EU was actively doing that caused tangible harm to the UK.

From what I've seen, people don't generally take drastic action until something is done that directly affects their personal lives or their livelihood. I'm really looking for that moment when the British decided, OK, the EU might keep the trains running on time but this (other thing) is something up with which we must not put!

You mean I wrote a great big long post and you're not going to take any points on board or even acknowledge the personal within the topic?
You have been given answers Ben. You just don't want to accept them.

of course not, a mind is like a parachute, it has to be open to work

Handy Andy wrote:My dad fought against the Nazis and many of his mates died in protecting Britain. I DO care about what my father fought for.
I guess that is the difference between LW and RW. We care for others, RW care for themselves.

well your sort do have a lot to apologise for dont they.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

sassy wrote:


British have invaded nine out of ten countries - so look out Luxembourg

Britain has invaded all but 22 countries in the world in its long and colourful history, new research has found.

58K

852

405

59K

Email

21 of the 22 countries that have not been invaded by Britain


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9653497/British-have-invaded-nine-out-of-ten-countries-so-look-out-Luxembourg.html

and the world was a better place for it. India for instance wasn't even a country when the british took over, it was a group of warring principalities. Pretty much everywhere the british went is better for it. can the same be said for the russian empire

Lol you don't know much history Dean do you?

India was doing very well before the British invaded it and killed millions of people!

Seriously I would actually advise to educate yourself on it before you make such assumptions!

from all this talk from our american cousins I can only conclude they regret leaving the british empire 240 odd years ago and will be demanding to rejoin forthwith. Or does only their right to independence count?

SEXY MAMA wrote:

If you voted out because of "unelected politicians" then well done because we're about to get an unelected Prime Minister.

If you voted out because of immigration then well done, because you just lost the right of free movement too. Just wait 'til you have to get a visa to go to Glasgow or Belfast.

If you voted out because people were "stealing your jobs" then well done, because you're about to see Germany and France "steal" Nissan and a bunch of other companies who only manufacture here as a gateway to the EU market.

If you voted out because you think we'll get a great trade deal with the EEA "like Norway did", think again. Take a look around your Sainsbury's Local and try and find any fruit and veg that's grown in the UK. We need them more than they need us, and like the EEA, we'll have to accept EU policies like free movement as part of a trade deal anyway - except now we won't be able to have any say in them.

If you voted out because of vague scaremongering headlines like "Migrant Crisis" then please, feel free to remind me when it was that Syria joined the EU.

If you voted out because Farage promised £350m for the NHS, then I'm sure you'll be happy to watch him on This Morning revealing that that was a lie.

If you voted out and you're heading into retirement, then great job! Because now the working people of this nation will break their backs to afford your pension without the influx of young, economically active and skilled EU migrants.

If you voted out because you think we'll be better off, the £ has just fallen by 8% against the dollar. And if you voted out because you love this country, prepare to see it crumble, with threats of a unified Ireland and an independent Scotland just hours after the result was confirmed.

Well done, Britain.

Are they your own words SM? If so, that's quite good.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:And Tommy?
I mean you expect nations that are formed of british invasions to really think a peasent's agreement matters?

YES i hear you, dont care, zero sympathy like just about everyone else in the world. very few people other than Brits would be so concieted to think they are going to get a say.

And you have had your say and that is the point as well, Most of the world is treating this as the UK wants out ALL economic blocks and trade nto just eh EU, Cause no one has much interest in forming the sort of "trade only" isolated deals you want they are so last century.
we are all forming Economic Unions that are generally acknowledged to be the start of a singular governace.

I seem to recall that you are entirely in favour of keeping the aborigine's in their place in australia. didn't you once refer to them as almost sub human, or was it all just drunks.

Did he really say that?

The Devil, You Know wrote:from all this talk from our american cousins I can only conclude they regret leaving the british empire 240 odd years ago and will be demanding to rejoin forthwith. Or does only their right to independence count?

I love your posts.

Raggamuffin wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:from all this talk from our american cousins I can only conclude they regret leaving the british empire 240 odd years ago and will be demanding to rejoin forthwith. Or does only their right to independence count?

I love your posts.

that will ensure you end up on one of those lists the left are so fond of.

Raggamuffin wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
I seem to recall that you are entirely in favour of keeping the aborigine's in their place in australia. didn't you once refer to them as almost sub human, or was it all just drunks.

Did he really say that?

not verbatim but it was the gist. It was around the time filthagain was posting the address for here an hardly anyone posted here.

absolutely no one pulled him/her/it up on it. I am sorry I dont know what gender he/she/it is. I always think of her as an outback Sheila built like a brick shithouse for some reason.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I love your posts.

that will ensure you end up on one of those lists the left are so fond of.

I think I'm already on one of those. I've been called a nazi, an extremist Bible-bashing Christian, and even a Tory.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:


Did he really say that?

not verbatim but it was the gist. It was around the time filthagain was posting the address for here an hardly anyone posted here.

absolutely no one pulled him/her/it up on it. I am sorry I dont know what gender he/she/it is. I always think of her as an outback Sheila built like a brick shithouse for some reason.

Veya is a man I think. It's interesting how he's changed his tune now there are quite a few English people/Brits here.

Raggamuffin wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
not verbatim but it was the gist. It was around the time filthagain was posting the address for here an hardly anyone posted here.

absolutely no one pulled him/her/it up on it. I am sorry I dont know what gender he/she/it is. I always think of her as an outback Sheila built like a brick shithouse for some reason.

Veya is a man I think. It's interesting how he's changed his tune now there are quite a few English people/Brits here.

I shall have to try and remember that when I reply or refer to him. He will always be a big girls blouse to me though.

Raggamuffin wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
that will ensure you end up on one of those lists the left are so fond of.

I think I'm already on one of those. I've been called a nazi, an extremist Bible-bashing Christian, and even a Tory.

yes it is a default setting for many on that side.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

If you voted out because of "unelected politicians" then well done because we're about to get an unelected Prime Minister.

If you voted out because of immigration then well done, because you just lost the right of free movement too. Just wait 'til you have to get a visa to go to Glasgow or Belfast.

If you voted out because people were "stealing your jobs" then well done, because you're about to see Germany and France "steal" Nissan and a bunch of other companies who only manufacture here as a gateway to the EU market.

If you voted out because you think we'll get a great trade deal with the EEA "like Norway did", think again. Take a look around your Sainsbury's Local and try and find any fruit and veg that's grown in the UK. We need them more than they need us, and like the EEA, we'll have to accept EU policies like free movement as part of a trade deal anyway - except now we won't be able to have any say in them.

If you voted out because of vague scaremongering headlines like "Migrant Crisis" then please, feel free to remind me when it was that Syria joined the EU.

If you voted out because Farage promised £350m for the NHS, then I'm sure you'll be happy to watch him on This Morning revealing that that was a lie.

If you voted out and you're heading into retirement, then great job! Because now the working people of this nation will break their backs to afford your pension without the influx of young, economically active and skilled EU migrants.

If you voted out because you think we'll be better off, the £ has just fallen by 8% against the dollar. And if you voted out because you love this country, prepare to see it crumble, with threats of a unified Ireland and an independent Scotland just hours after the result was confirmed.

Well done, Britain.

Copied from a reliable source. Please give it a read:

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea:

1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

If you voted out because of "unelected politicians" then well done because we're about to get an unelected Prime Minister.

If you voted out because of immigration then well done, because you just lost the right of free movement too. Just wait 'til you have to get a visa to go to Glasgow or Belfast.

If you voted out because people were "stealing your jobs" then well done, because you're about to see Germany and France "steal" Nissan and a bunch of other companies who only manufacture here as a gateway to the EU market.

If you voted out because you think we'll get a great trade deal with the EEA "like Norway did", think again. Take a look around your Sainsbury's Local and try and find any fruit and veg that's grown in the UK. We need them more than they need us, and like the EEA, we'll have to accept EU policies like free movement as part of a trade deal anyway - except now we won't be able to have any say in them.

If you voted out because of vague scaremongering headlines like "Migrant Crisis" then please, feel free to remind me when it was that Syria joined the EU.

If you voted out because Farage promised £350m for the NHS, then I'm sure you'll be happy to watch him on This Morning revealing that that was a lie.

If you voted out and you're heading into retirement, then great job! Because now the working people of this nation will break their backs to afford your pension without the influx of young, economically active and skilled EU migrants.

If you voted out because you think we'll be better off, the £ has just fallen by 8% against the dollar. And if you voted out because you love this country, prepare to see it crumble, with threats of a unified Ireland and an independent Scotland just hours after the result was confirmed.

Well done, Britain.

you mean like gordon brown? I dont recall you whining about him not calling an election. Labour will no doubt be hoping and praying that the new tory leader whoever he may be doesn't call an election or labour could well end up sharing a phone box with the lib dems at conference season to ensure it does not look too empty.

the thing with the left,

The Devil, You Know wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

If you voted out because of "unelected politicians" then well done because we're about to get an unelected Prime Minister.

If you voted out because of immigration then well done, because you just lost the right of free movement too. Just wait 'til you have to get a visa to go to Glasgow or Belfast.

If you voted out because people were "stealing your jobs" then well done, because you're about to see Germany and France "steal" Nissan and a bunch of other companies who only manufacture here as a gateway to the EU market.

If you voted out because you think we'll get a great trade deal with the EEA "like Norway did", think again. Take a look around your Sainsbury's Local and try and find any fruit and veg that's grown in the UK. We need them more than they need us, and like the EEA, we'll have to accept EU policies like free movement as part of a trade deal anyway - except now we won't be able to have any say in them.

If you voted out because of vague scaremongering headlines like "Migrant Crisis" then please, feel free to remind me when it was that Syria joined the EU.

If you voted out because Farage promised £350m for the NHS, then I'm sure you'll be happy to watch him on This Morning revealing that that was a lie.

If you voted out and you're heading into retirement, then great job! Because now the working people of this nation will break their backs to afford your pension without the influx of young, economically active and skilled EU migrants.

If you voted out because you think we'll be better off, the £ has just fallen by 8% against the dollar. And if you voted out because you love this country, prepare to see it crumble, with threats of a unified Ireland and an independent Scotland just hours after the result was confirmed.

Well done, Britain.

you mean like gordon brown? I dont recall you whining about him not calling an election. Labour will no doubt be hoping and praying that the new tory leader whoever he may be doesn't call an election or labour could well end up sharing a phone box with the lib dems at conference season to ensure it does not look too empty.

the thing with the left,

I think the thing there is that it will affect scotland or northern ireland more than it would the uk. But yes you are right, if scotland leaves then indeed there will have to be border controls if they ever manage to join the EU. they might also have a tough time of it over the decade it takes them to join if the rest of the UK decides to not allow them to use sterling as a currency. Of course they could still use it, but it would not be backed by the bank of england and would mean they would need to buy it from us first.

the german car makers are desperate not to rock the boat as far as trade with the UK goes as we are one of their most important markets.
project fear is attempting to keep going and force Britain down, but like in 1939 plucky little Britain may well not follow the script.

as to fruit and veg, yes vast amounts of it are grown in kenya and outside the EU so we can make our own agreements with those countries and hopefully we will not screw them like the EU has.


it will be up to the government of the day to decide where that £350million we send to the EU for them to return half and tell us how to spend it, goes. Are you saying that a labour government ( I know, not likely for 30 years or more) wouldn't spend some of it on the NHS.


the reason we need immigrants to work here is exactly because we have an elderly population who get their pensions from those working today, not from what they have contributed for 50 years.
However if leaving allows us to stop up to 350million people from the EU coming here to claim benefits then it will have been worth while. Despite what you may have heard or repeated endlessly britain will not be closing its doors to those that wish to come here and work. what it will do is mean a doctor or engineer from india will have a better chance of coming here than a pickpocket from Romania. OR maybe you prefer Romanian pickpockets to engineers and doctors.


if you dont think that europe is suffering a migrant crisis then I suggest you have had your head too far up sassy's arse for too long. the whole of southern europe is awash with genuine and not so genuine migrants from the middle east and africa. Some fleeing war, most fleeing to benefits. The british government of the day can now choose not to pay them benefits if they desire that.

the thing about the pound falling against the dollar is that it does make our exports cheaper. of course it will no doubt make fuel costs more expensive. remember back in the mid noughties the pound was almost $2. it meant I could go to america every couple of months, being cheaper will mean americans can come here more often. Exchange rates go up and down all the time. even now with this fall I have seen the exchange rate in turkey almost double what it was 6 years ago. my money is worth about 7 or 8p in the pound less than it was on thursday. A price worth paying if democracy is upheld.

#LammyMustGo

veya_victaous wrote:

nicko wrote:I bear no responsibility for any "invasion"   carried out by my Father or any other deceased relative.     So why the fuck do people keep on about what the Brits did before I was born.



I bear no responsibility for what my Father or other long time dead relative did in the past,   so shut the fuck up about it.

Cause You do !!!!
and trying to Bullshit you way out of it with pathetic excuse just makes it worse
Don't want the responsibility EMPTY the museums! you already spent the money so own up to trillions in debts for the resources the UK stole to build the shit heap you lot are now running into oblivion.

you seem to get very angry when the facts dont back you up or someone does not automatically agree with you. #roidrage?

The Devil, You Know wrote:

nicko wrote:
Veya's still on about British "invasions"   The only invasion I remember is when we " invaded"  France to kick out the Germans.

no doubt he/she/it  will be handing over the deeds to to any property he/she/it own to the first aborigines she meets and apologising profusely for oppressing them for 250years., its an odd argument to use when you live in a country founded by "invaders"

TYPICAL flophead Dean...

Spouting his usual spate of idiotic lies on a subject he knows less than nothing about..

AND, also typical with his usual inaflap style of white supremacist racism, to boot.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

nicko wrote:It may be for the better Sexy,   no one really knows yet.   I THINK WE SHOULD WAIT A FEW MONTHS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS,   IF IT GOES TITS UP IL'L ADMIT I WAS WRONG.

[CAPS STUCK AGAIN]

Yes let's wait and see.

x

then #generationsnowflake and their facilitators should stop whining and accept they lost the democratic vote

SEXY MAMA wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
and the world was a better place for it. India for instance wasn't even a country when the british took over, it was a group of warring principalities. Pretty much everywhere the british went is better for it. can the same be said for the russian empire

Lol you don't know much history Dean do you?

India was doing very well before the British invaded it and killed millions of people!

Seriously I would actually advise to educate yourself on it before you make such assumptions!

india was not a unified country. it was a disparate number of warring tribes and principalities
Britain unified it and made it what it is today. so the million killed by indians felt ok about that?
you do make I larf

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
no doubt he/she/it  will be handing over the deeds to to any property he/she/it own to the first aborigines she meets and apologising profusely for oppressing them for 250years., its an odd argument to use when you live in a country founded by "invaders"

TYPICAL flophead Dean...

Spouting his usual spate of idiotic lies on a subject he knows less than nothing about..

AND, also typical with his usual inaflap style of white supremacist  racism, to boot.

do I know you? there are so many useless lefties I have upset over the years that it is hard to keep count.

you obviously do not know me if you think I am any of those things you describe. or have I got it wrong and you are referring to the big girls blouse Vera?

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
no doubt he/she/it  will be handing over the deeds to to any property he/she/it own to the first aborigines she meets and apologising profusely for oppressing them for 250years., its an odd argument to use when you live in a country founded by "invaders"

TYPICAL flophead Dean...

Spouting his usual spate of idiotic lies on a subject he knows less than nothing about..

AND, also typical with his usual inaflap style of white supremacist  racism, to boot.

Dean's post on this subject have been very good IMO. I wish I could come up with more.

Raggamuffin wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


TYPICAL flophead Dean...

Spouting his usual spate of idiotic lies on a subject he knows less than nothing about..

AND, also typical with his usual inaflap style of white supremacist  racism, to boot.

Dean's post on this subject have been very good IMO. I wish I could come up with more.

cheques in the post

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Dean's post on this subject have been very good IMO. I wish I could come up with more.

cheques in the post

Cheers Dean.

Raggamuffin wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
that will ensure you end up on one of those lists the left are so fond of.

I think I'm already on one of those. I've been called a nazi, an extremist Bible-bashing Christian, and even a Tory.

AND you wear treggings.

Just an observation...we have voted out, the majority of Great Britain agreed, so.......
There will be many difficulties cos it's unchartered territory ,and  there does seem to have been less planning by the government on where we start this new journey than would have been sensible.

But tearing each other apart, seeing the very worse aspect of our society being given free reign,  will be the MAIN thing that makes our exit fail imho.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I think I'm already on one of those. I've been called a nazi, an extremist Bible-bashing Christian, and even a Tory.

AND you wear treggings.

Just an observation...we have voted out, the majority of Great Britain agreed, so.......
There will be many difficulties cos it's unchartered territory ,and  there does seem to have been less planning by the government on where we start this new journey than would have been sensible.

But tearing each other apart, seeing the very worse aspect of our society being given free reign,  will be the MAIN thing that makes our exit fail imho.

indeed the government should have considered that there was a possibility we might vote to leave and have some initial planning in place. It isn't up to the leave campaign to have made those plans as they were not in charge.
Now I thought Camerons decision to resign and wait to trigger article 50 was a good idea as it would allow the new leader to be put in place and deal with negotiations, however now it looks like the remain camp are trying to use that delay to overturn the democratic decision of the majority who could be bothered to vote,so perhaps the triggering of article 50 should be implemented immediately to put any thought of further referendums or debates in their place. One we trigger it we have 2 years to negotiate the exit conditions. I am not sure that the prime minister is required to put it before parliament in order to trigger article 50 as the decision has been made by those who voted. HE has said that decision should stand.

Some in the EU are already demanding we do so immediately, presumably in the belief that we are not serious. I wish I could be a fly on the wall when it is signed. and delivered.

lets get out of the building before it goes up in flames.

#LammyMustGo

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I think I'm already on one of those. I've been called a nazi, an extremist Bible-bashing Christian, and even a Tory.

AND you wear treggings.

Just an observation...we have voted out, the majority of Great Britain agreed, so.......
There will be many difficulties cos it's unchartered territory ,and  there does seem to have been less planning by the government on where we start this new journey than would have been sensible.

But tearing each other apart, seeing the very worse aspect of our society being given free reign,  will be the MAIN thing that makes our exit fail imho.

It's the pecan 'air, wot does it!!!

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I think I'm already on one of those. I've been called a nazi, an extremist Bible-bashing Christian, and even a Tory.

AND you wear treggings.

Just an observation...we have voted out, the majority of Great Britain agreed, so.......
There will be many difficulties cos it's unchartered territory ,and  there does seem to have been less planning by the government on where we start this new journey than would have been sensible.

But tearing each other apart, seeing the very worse aspect of our society being given free reign,  will be the MAIN thing that makes our exit fail imho.

Also, does anyone really believe that all this terrible violence by a minority against immigrants and ethnic people wouldn't have happened if we'd voted to Remain? Of course it would. That's the nature of these idiots.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:

AND you wear treggings.

Just an observation...we have voted out, the majority of Great Britain agreed, so.......
There will be many difficulties cos it's unchartered territory ,and  there does seem to have been less planning by the government on where we start this new journey than would have been sensible.

But tearing each other apart, seeing the very worse aspect of our society being given free reign,  will be the MAIN thing that makes our exit fail imho.

It's the pecan 'air, wot does it!!!

I've never been accused of being blonde - thank goodness for that.

I did laugh at this message from the Russians.  

Ahead of the referendum Russia had become caught up in the Brexit debate.

The Remain campaign had argued that Britain should stay in the EU, alleging the Kremlin was backing Leave to weaken the EU.

The message from Moscow on Friday was clear: Don't blame Russia for this result. The head of the Russian parliament's foreign affairs committee, Alexei Pushkov, tweeted: "Russia has nothing to do with this. It's the defeat of Remain. And a personal failure for Barack Obama."

Pro-Kremlin radio station Vesti FM declared sarcastically, "From the 1990s onwards, we sent our people especially to London, so that 15 years later they could play a decisive role in this referendum. What a load of rubbish!"

But some Russian politicians couldn't contain their pleasure. They included Moscow's Mayor, Sergei Sobyanin, who noted: "Without the UK in the EU, there's no one there who'll back sanctions against us so stridently."

Ultra-nationalist MP Vladimir Zhirinovsky said the British public "had performed a heroic deed". He said he intended to send a congratulatory telegram to David Cameron: "Dear David, our big friend, we're happy that Britain made the right choice."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36616018

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I think I'm already on one of those. I've been called a nazi, an extremist Bible-bashing Christian, and even a Tory.

AND you wear treggings.

Just an observation...we have voted out, the majority of Great Britain agreed, so.......
There will be many difficulties cos it's unchartered territory ,and  there does seem to have been less planning by the government on where we start this new journey than would have been sensible.

But tearing each other apart, seeing the very worse aspect of our society being given free reign,  will be the MAIN thing that makes our exit fail imho.

indeed the government should have considered that there was a possibility we might vote to leave and have some initial planning in place. It isn't up to the leave campaign to have made those plans as they were not in charge.
Now I thought Camerons decision to resign and wait to trigger article 50 was a good idea as it would allow the new leader to be put in place and deal with negotiations, however now it looks like the remain camp are trying to use that delay to overturn the democratic decision of the majority who could be bothered to vote,so perhaps the triggering of article 50 should be implemented immediately to put any thought of further referendums or debates in their place. One we trigger it we have 2 years to negotiate the exit conditions. I am not sure that the prime minister is required to put it before parliament in order to trigger article 50 as the decision has been made by those who voted. HE has said that decision should stand.

Some in the EU are already demanding we do so immediately, presumably in the belief that we are not serious. I wish I could be a fly on the wall when it is signed. and delivered.

lets get out of the building before it goes up in flames.

#LammyMustGo

Was it up to the Leave campaign not to deceive the electorate?