Do you think Islam is an existential threat to Western civilization?

veya_victaous wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I think there's a fair bit of deception going on here, which is actually fairly transparent.

As much as they try, the likes of Ben and Veya will never make me ashamed of the way I am, and they'll never convince me to be ashamed to be British. They have no idea of what makes a lot of Brits tick, and that's what they can't stand.

an evil heart makes you tick
that racist beat, the ignorant drum
the cruel lying stealing rhythm that makes you British.
the ‘tick’ is the staccato of selfishness that is synonymous with being British.

what we can’t stand is that we are supposed to be like you
I'd stand with an Aboriginal, over you or tommy any day.
Britain can't even accept that OTHER peoples have a History that doesn't say the British are Good.
they steal and then tell those they stole from they should be grateful the brit came and destroyed their nations.

HoratioTarr wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I think there's a fair bit of deception going on here, which is actually fairly transparent.

As much as they try, the likes of Ben and Veya will never make me ashamed of the way I am, and they'll never convince me to be ashamed to be British. They have no idea of what makes a lot of Brits tick, and that's what they can't stand.

an evil heart makes you tick
that racist beat, the ignorant drum
the cruel lying stealing rhythm that makes you British.
the ‘tick’ is the staccato of selfishness that is synonymous with being British.

what we can’t stand is that we are supposed to be like you
I'd stand with an Aboriginal, over you or tommy any day.
Britain can't even accept that OTHER peoples have a History that doesn't say the British are Good.
they steal and then tell those they stole from they should be grateful the brit came and destroyed their nations.

After you've ground him into the dust, tried to eradicate his culture and deprive him of being a part of your society, you mean?   How noble of you.  

veya_victaous wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

After you've ground him into the dust, tried to eradicate his culture and deprive him of being a part of your society, you mean?   How noble of you.  

Again more British Propaganda

Aboriginal Population has INCREASED since Australians were given control, they have been given rigths and paid reparations.  We had no vote on our own rigths that lead to British solider massacring White Australians too. So I don't think what YOU did to aborignals and the convicts can be blamed on anyone BUT the BRITISH. AND YOU still have not paid for your crimes and expect people to think positively for avoiding punishments for your crimes. It took All Australians working together decades just to get you to give the aborignals back their remains and not treat them like a stuffed animal in your museums!!! Cause even in the 1990's you were evil.

veya_victaous wrote:back to Op

who are the Cowards?
Who is so chicken shit that they think Islam is threat?

Come on Admit who you are so you can be mocked as you deserve to be...

Judge people by the content of their character so Anyone that voted they are a threat can be quite accurately judged as a Coward, a useless pathetic coward.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

AS FOR Aussies and Yanks being in any way jealous of you Poms -- can you name just one thing that you have, that anyone down here "...can't have" [/b][b]?

COME ON nicko, just one..          

veya_victaous wrote:and 3 brits point out how hypocritical they are;
You are ALL happy to accept the positives by shy away from the repsonsiblity for the negative.

Victor and HT in particular have suggested 'ALL mulsims should' so why are you so special to the treated as individuals?

And Victor NO the Vikings were trying to steal it at the same time as the saxons really.  AND why dont they know? OH yeah that ENGLISH PROPGANDA You lot keep spouting and I keep complaining About? and then get told I'm being Anti british by pointing out that Maybe the aboriginals dont think that having brits murder 80% of them is a 'good thing'!

eddie wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:PS: I don't think Somali's are muggers anymore.

Now I think they're all taxi drivers. ;-)

If someone else had said that, they'd have been hounded probably.
That's the problem with everyone nowadays. You're not allowed to make jokes - unless, unless....you're a Muslim making it or a black person, then it's ok.
I think that's  why some people get frustrated.

Eilzel wrote:I think its down to a person's entire collection of expressions Eds.

Does Zack call for the expulsion of Somali's from England or claimed they are naturally more inclined to criminal behaviour? No, in fact he cites rightly his own racist thoughts (which we've all) as irrational.

So when he makes a joke like that we know it's cool and in total fun,

If however, someone talks of one group being predisposed to some bad activities and wants that groups rights restricted or even for all such people to leave Britain. Then similar jokes would blatantly be coming from a bad place.

I've mentioned before how I am happy for friends to make certain gay jokes because I know their is no inate homophobia there. They all totally support equality inc things like marriage and adoption. But I wouldn't accept gay jokes from someone who opposed gay rights. Sometimes who says something is as important as what is said.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Eilzel wrote:I think its down to a person's entire collection of expressions Eds.

Does Zack call for the expulsion of Somali's from England or claimed they are naturally more inclined to criminal behaviour? No, in fact he cites rightly his own racist thoughts (which we've all) as irrational.

So when he makes a joke like that we know it's cool and in total fun,

If however, someone talks of one group being predisposed to some bad activities and wants that groups rights restricted or even for all such people to leave Britain. Then similar jokes would blatantly be coming from a bad place.

I've mentioned before how I am happy for friends to make certain gay jokes because I know their is no inate homophobia there. They all totally support equality inc things like marriage and adoption. But I wouldn't accept gay jokes from someone who opposed gay rights. Sometimes who says something is as important as what is said.

Thanks. And spot on.

veya_victaous wrote:So when are we goign to start bombing Trump Voters??

Paul Ettinger wrote: So you are saying now to bomb people for supporting one person?
There has not been such startegic plans to do such a thing since the Vietnam war.
Again civillians are not deliberately targeted in air strikes against terrorists and terrorists are a target, because they continue to commit mass murder against innocent people. There is no policy I know of that calls for the bombing of supporters of Ali Khamenei, the Supreme ruler of Iran or Kim Jong-un, the supreme ruler of North Korea. we do not even bomb ISIS supporters in our own countries, so maybe you can explain to the forum, why you want to muder people for being Trump supporters? Seems you are also anti-Democracy and wish to literally eliminate the opposition.

Oh yeah that does put the bullshit you typed into persepctive doesn't it?

Paul Ettinger wrote: Incorrect, I just showed yours was just plainly daft

Not cool for some dude on the other side fo the world to threaten gays, but hey the Americans suggesting the President should by killed because his skin is black is fine? So obviously that has nothing to do with it and beside IF they were a threat we could not just decide hey we are going to attack you now or just leave you where you are.... they are not actually capable of a major attak, no a coupe of IEDS is not a major attack we can drop 100's of times that amount of explosives in a few minites.

SO Coward Do you feel threatened by tolders? Worried they will over power you? Cause that is what a Westerner being scared of Islam is! we are more powerful than them by entire magnatudes. those that think Islam is a threat are so dumb and scared that their presence amoung us should Disgust the regualr person.

Paul Ettinger wrote:. You see the reason your view is daft, is that its comparable to the view of trump supporters, by wanting to murder people. Any Trump suupporters that promote such hate speech, in my view, if the threat is legitimate, should be arrested. hence the absurdity of your view. We have thus then no need to bomb any trump supporters, as based on your reasoning, nobody has bombed the US president. So in fact your methodology was far worse and more hateful, because yours was not even a threat, but when the bombing of trump supporters would start. Thus you then being in approval to murder people, based off some idiots who have threatened the President. Now the President has many people that protect him, which is a necessity as there are some right crackpot Far right loons in the US. Now if of course you care for the protection of the right to a human life for people. As well as it be an essential part of evolution, due to th fact we are mortal, that we have developed the need to survive. Then humans will naturally react to a threat, a real threat, of which islamic extremism is a real threat. In nature you see all the time how any species will have developed measures in order to protect itself from a real danger. Now equality is also under threat, if any abrahamic religion in its literal form. Became the majority in all the nations of the world. To the extent it was voted to be the bases of law. Would destroy most of the human rights we have, that protect us. Going back to a time of severe inequality. So if you think literal religions are not a threat, then many here are so misguided and simply have learnt absolutely nothing from history, when religion was in control based on absolute morals. Its not a case of if it will happen, but when it could very well happen, if Islam continues to be as it is in many Muslim majority countries, indoctrinated into its populations, where they actually manipulate the system and censur opposing views points. Then it will continue to maintain a steady rise in Muslims, world over. Of course there is no danger at present of Muslims becoming the majority people in the West.

Though based on present predictions of high birth rates and like I say a system engineered to indoctrinate Islam, as the only view. Then, there numbers will continue to rise, where at some4 point, it will then becoe the world majority belief system, over everything else. That could take centuries of course, but because they actually make religion compulsary. Going against the Quran, denying people the ability to be taught many different world views. Ensures a continued rise in Muslim numbers based not on conversions, but an enforecement policy. Which criminalizes leaving the religion itself. That is the possible furture threat, that would drag the world back centuries and see undone so much of where we have progressed. All because islam itself was actually a smart invention, in regards to ensuring the growth of the religion. As the religion has a massive Berlin wall around it that denies any escape from the religion. This is called Apostacy, denying Muslims in Muslim countries. The actual ability to decide publically what they believe in, on pain of death or imprisonment. This denies the ability to have no compuslsion in religion. It enforces people to continue to be Muslims and the only excape route is a Non Muslim majority country, death or imprisonment. Islam ensures that when born into a Muslim majority country, governed by islamic laws. People have the choice of death, imprisonment or forced to continue to be a Muslim.

So the reality for homosexuals in many areas of the globe, they do not have anything even remotely close to the same security and protection the President has in the US. In fact in some countries, some islamic ones, its punishable by death. Even though there is not even a single reference to homosexuality in the Quran

Paul Ettinger wrote:But the problem is that many Islamic teachings go off unreliable claims to historical acts, deeds and sayings by Muhammad, where they elevate these hadiths. To the same comparable level of the Surahs of Allah, in the Quram. They render the Quran of secondary importance to the hadiths themselves. As the Quran does not provide any such commands to criminalize homosexuality. Which is another problem with Islam and why in its current form and because of the hadiths, have created a diluted and corrupted version of Islam, is how it is so ridgid, denying the ability to adapat or change the belief system itself. The only thing Muslims really need is the Quran, which is their guide, but they elevate Muhammad to that of a comparability to that of their own deity. By making supposed claims to his life, as if they were commands in the Quran. Most of the problems in islam stem from claims made in the Hadiths, which many people do not realize. Without the hadiths and then  many verses of the Quran being view differently based on the using the hadith as the base point, is why Islam has so many problems. So where people like some have argued that religion is only a tool. Is utterly misleading and painting a very false picture, as within religion. Where you have, belief systems, which require you to adhere to the rules and commands of what they worship, or you will face an eternity of suffereing. This renders the claim to religion being a tool as moot. As a literal believer in a religion, (and we have had over 2,000 years of history to show what happens, when religion is in control, to know exactly how bad these guides are when they have absolute morals), which plays off a massive fear of suffering, completely changes the aspct of this tool.

The Abrahamic tool in its literal form, has to be abided by, as to the believer, to fail to do so will mean eternal suffering. So Islam very much is a threat, based on how its engineered to ensure all new children born to Muslims when living in Muslim countries. Will through fear, and the restricted access to other views. Denied the rights to believe anything else. As the alternative option, of death, makes this the only real possible escape route out of Islam, in mulsim majority nations. Not only that many, will not even think to question islam, as again a major empahsis on fear is used to instill such an insecurity into children growing up. Which ensures many Muslims will not even dare to question the faith. Such a fear system is so orchestrated using negative reasoning, in order to make people wrongly believe they should fear not obeying Islam. Denies countless Muslims growing up in these nations, with one of the most fundemental aspects needed to progress. To be able to freely think look objectively at what they believe in. Just as many Christians once were and some still are today when raised in literal families, the Abrahamic faiths. Render the ability to question the actual faith, as to being so evil. That people are so in fear to even dare question their own faith. The fear leads and now controls them, as without this fear, they would be able to freely think and question and look with an open clear mind at their own faith objectively as they would do of any other faith. That is why the Abrahamic faiths have been so successful in spreading and expanding, because fear is a necessity in order for people to believe. Which then denies the ability for people to freely then want to choose to believe themselves. It makes love, the ability to decide freely and faith as being the main reasons people believe in those religions. As fear is the driving factor and the necessary requirement only needed to create, maintain and control a a literal religious individual. Without fear, they would be able to look at their own faith objectively as they do already to all other faiths. That is the saddest and most appalling aspects and designs of these religions, that they manipulate people through fear.

when in the main its also claims to be the last message, with also being claimed to be the word of their deity. REnders the Quran as completely rigid in its rules. Whereas Christians and Jews can claim, that it was religiously inspired people who wrote the Torah, Gospels etc and thus its is then acceptable to view some teachings then as possible wrong and the views of men. Islam cannot do this, as if it were to claim that parts of the Quran could be wrong and additions added by men. Would shatter the islamic faith at its root cause, as Islamic teaching is based on the very principle, that the book is perfect and complete, being the words of their God. To even then claim a part could be wrong, would then render their most important claim to the this being the word of God, as flawed. Such a blow to a core belief, would end up seeing Islam splinter and fragment into then countless new interpretations and new doctrines. Where just as we have seen in Christianity, people claim to be in direct communication with their deity. So the part claiming to be the last message, would like others be seen as possible incorrect and this allows as it has in Christianity for over 42,000 different denomiations. Christianity is not rigid, but Islam is to the core teachings.

So when I say you clearly are ignoring the problems faced by those persecuted under countries that is based on Islamic teachings and even the progressive Muslim nations. This is why you and other lefties have simply fail to look at the last few thousand years of history where religion has been in control and the bases for law. Based on how the present islam is corrupted and flawed where it has elevatd the hadiths to Surah's, with it being the last message, with the Quran claimed to be all from Allah, to then claim it is perfect and complete. Can then have no bases to be called a tool, as this hammer, Islam, comes with commands. Which due to the inflexabilty of islam, makes for being able to progress or adapt Islam as being very remote to say the least. This hammer though hypotheticall meaning, and its guide the Quran, makes believers think that they have to smash someone over the head, using the hammer who has transgressed, in nother words, major sins. Which also in this hammer Quran guide, claims that if yuu  die whilst then defending Islam, you will be given a free pass into their make belief heaven. That this then claims, to be the most glourious way to enter heaven, through death. committing violence, using a hammer. Then the hammer now takes on a new perspective and meaning altogether. Now the hammer has become first and foremost a weapon of retribution and give a Muslim a clean slate over every sin they have ever committed. That is why Islam in its present literal hadith based form, (just as Christianity once was when it had literal control) is very problematic and incompatible with the very freedoms, equality, safeguards and protections we hold and value dearly.

his ultimate prise is even worse though, as it takes away comepletely any fear of death. So effectivelly through Istishhad. Because they are controlled through fear, Islam like any computer game, has a cheat built into the system. That enables to you to ignore having to struggle through a long life in order to be accepted into paradise. This offers up a far easier  and taught as the most glourious way to be accepted automatically into heaven. I mean with being already manipulated through fear of an eternal punishment, you have the option to throw your life away, ever having to ever struggle. As this cheat, being classed as the most heroic act achieveable in islam, thus then makes many believe they are better off dead than having to struggle in life. Death now is the best path  by weilding jihad, that ensures you avoid eternal punishment. As seen because Muslims raised in Muslims countries are already controlled and led by a fear of eternal punishement. This cheat allows for some aspects of fear to be overcome, death itself or be judged over the deeds in their life. So those already so controlled by fear are going to see such a option as the easy path in islam to take. Hence why terrorist groups are so easily able to draw recruits. As they claim to offer them the chance to weild jihad and to die doing so. With such a carrot on a stick, and how it teaches for people to wrongly and needlessly throw their lives away, just in order, that they think they will gain entry to an imaginary paradise. I mean what sicl bastard, would create a system, that makes people believe only through being in fear, that if they do not they will suffer. To then hav countless harsh and strict rules, where they have to lead good lives, so to have a chance of being judged to have passed a good life to get into paradise. To make Muslims also believe, that they can in fact completely not even bother having to read the Quran, of abide with a single ruling. They have instead created such a clever lure and what has to be the most and only important thing any Muslim need ever learn and understand, is Istishhad. With already being controlled with fear through religious claims to an eternal punishments if you fail to lead a good human life. With clearly being also in fear whether you have then done enough to pass judgement, overcome temptations, struggled, which would plague many believers with more fear and doubt whether they have done enough to gain entry. I mean how appalling and twisted can you get on this concept in Islam. That the best and most glourious and easiest way into paradise, Is by basically throwing your life away needlessly, with a belief to weilding Jihad. The other option is to struglle, never ever being sure if you will pass judgement.

I mean how can anyone make the appeal of death be placed to the only thing that is important, way better than even to struggle through life. To then claim, this comes from something all intelligent and loving. This one cheat, makes ever having to being a practicing Muslim redudent. They have a far more jazzed up path they can take and its the terrorists that are able to convince them, they are able to provide them with the means to obtain a free pass. This is those who blame the west for the problems of Islamic extremism are so cluless. As this lure, which is then back up with a narative of hate. which clueless lefties inadvertently off up documented non-Islamic evidence for the terrorists, to use as proof to the naratives of hate. This propaganda tool is lapped up by the terrorists, as they have those in the west who have not the first clue or understanding of islam. Who are utterly clueless on history, who blame the west wrong for Islamic extremis. Even though many nations were formely colonial controlled, occupied, exploited last century, occupied, see civillians die through some initial conflicts, of which many had more to do with Political control, with a view to gain control once independent. I Have not seen countless decades of terrorism violence agaisnt the west or even in their own countries, as as we have seen with Islamic terrorism.

Just ask yourself that and see why the claim to blame the west, is so flawed and wrong, as its beyond absurd to even claim it. In many of these nations, there was also naratives of hate agaisnt their former colonial masters, where even today there is still bad blood and feeling between nations, due to the past, but there is no belief system, that makes them feel they must perceieve any armed assistance from the west is a henious crime and sin, in other words a transgression. Nor do they have a any concept that says to wage an armed jihad against nations, that came to help librate a nation invaded by a tyrant. You see, the most and important point is to look through countless times in history and see what motivates and fuels the vioence and conflicts itself. I mean the worst part about any claim to formerly being for a very short time, under colonial control, some of the Arab bations. Even though for centuries they were occupied and contolled by the Ottomans and that the Arabs were themselves colonialist invaders and settlers to the vast majroity of the Middle east and what justification and bullshit do they teach as to how they came to colonise and occupy the Middle East. Supposed transgressions, by the Byzantime empire, who was so weak after years of conflict with the Sassanid empire. Who were also very much in a weakened state, when the Arabs took advantage of the situation to aggressively invade and attack them one after the other. This is why the Arabs so easily overcame the nations they invaded so easily, as the major powers so weakened each other from decades of fighting, already with several conflicts over different areas of the Empires.

The claim falls apart when you look at some many other areas of history, which is made even worse when the left invent a lie, claiming the west is to blame for Islamic extremism. No the Islamic system itself, through the concept of transgressions. Which is easily intepreted to claim where like when we helped in the First Iraq War free a nation occupied after being invaded by Iraq. To claim this help was in fact a major wrong done as a transgression, as those arguing this, followed, one the most intolerant doctrine taught in islam, Wahhabism. A doctrine that views other Muslims as apostates, for having islamic views diffeent to wahhabism. This one hardline extreme form of islam, is why you see so much islamic extremism. Its influence is far and well financed. The west could go to any other nation fight a conflict with a tyrant, depose them or even lose the conflict as they once did in Vietnam and you would then not see any mass rise of terrorism, from those nations that you fought against or helped free from an inavading armny. Only such a belief stems from islam through transgression and mainly through the beliefs on this taught within Wahhabism. So we are back full circle to one of the most literal hadith based forms of Islam. The hadiths being the central problem again, so called claims to deeds, acts and things said, which Muslims wrongly elevate to as if they were Surah's of Allah. Which render the Quran secondary to that of the invented taled of Muhammad's life.

That is the root cause to how and why a problem exists