Do you think Islam is an existential threat to Western civilization?

Let's just be honest, because it seems we have a number of members here who sort of dance around that idea without just coming out and saying it.

And if you do believe it is, what possible solution is there besides either shutting down all immigration or another world war?

I think Islam is like a persistant cough. It's good to keep an eye on it but it doesn't mean it's cancer.

Now that's either a great analogy or really shit.

I think any religion that brain washes people into believing only their faith is the right faith and everyone else is wrong is dangerous.

Syl wrote:I think any religion that brain washes people into believing only their faith is the right faith and everyone else is wrong is dangerous.

That covers just about every faith then.

Ben_Reilly wrote:Let's just be honest, because it seems we have a number of members here who sort of dance around that idea without just coming out and saying it.

And if you do believe it is, what possible solution is there besides either shutting down all immigration or another world war?

Is certain forms of Islam a threat to western civilizations?

The answer is emphatically yes, as we are at war with extreme Islam and have been for years now.

Is Wahhabism in any way compatiable with democracy and equality?
The simple answer is no

I did not vote, because your question is misleading

sassy wrote:

Syl wrote:I think any religion that brain washes people into believing only their faith is the right faith and everyone else is wrong is dangerous.

That covers just about every faith then.

Yes it does Sassy...I still remember when my city was blown up in the name of religion.

Sadly some religions encourage terrorism more than others.....I think it's confusing that so few Muslims speak out (or do so half heartedly) against the brain washed who mar what should be a peaceful religion (if translated correctly) and are then seen to encourage it.

There is also another simple answer to this and where the West was once ruled by religion.
What was its record under Christianity in its literal form?
Its not rocket science to understand religious law and equality do not mix.

Syl wrote:

sassy wrote:


That covers just about every faith then.

Yes it does Sassy...I still remember when my city was blown up in the name of religion.

Sadly some religions encourage terrorism more than others.....I think it's confusing that so few Muslims speak out (or do so half heartedly) against  the brain washed who mar what should be a peaceful religion (if translated correctly) and are then seen to encourage it.  

Yep, I remember the bombs in London by the IRA.  Syl, if you think they don't speak out, very vocally, it's because it doesn't get covered half as much as the wrongs.   And I never heard it being demanded of Roman Catholics in NI for them to speak out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3nXExngn2c

Does that seem like its not a threat to you, by such Islamic teachers?

sassy wrote:

Syl wrote:

Yes it does Sassy...I still remember when my city was blown up in the name of religion.

Sadly some religions encourage terrorism more than others.....I think it's confusing that so few Muslims speak out (or do so half heartedly) against  the brain washed who mar what should be a peaceful religion (if translated correctly) and are then seen to encourage it.  

Yep, I remember the bombs in London by the IRA.  Syl, if you think they don't speak out, very vocally, it's because it doesn't get covered half as much as the wrongs.   And I never heard it being demanded of Roman Catholics in NI for them to speak out.

Do thery speak out on the terrorism against Israeli's
Hardly any, as most support this as being justified.
This is the problem with Islam, as terrorism is not forbidden in Islam, as even Muhammad raided Caravans with terrorism.
The only difference between extremists is over who is deemed guilty of transgressing, hence why one terrorism is acceptable and another is condemned.
It all depends on who is viewed as guilty.
The IRA has very little to do with religion at all

sassy wrote:

Syl wrote:

Yes it does Sassy...I still remember when my city was blown up in the name of religion.

Sadly some religions encourage terrorism more than others.....I think it's confusing that so few Muslims speak out (or do so half heartedly) against  the brain washed who mar what should be a peaceful religion (if translated correctly) and are then seen to encourage it.  

Yep, I remember the bombs in London by the IRA.  Syl, if you think they don't speak out, very vocally, it's because it doesn't get covered half as much as the wrongs.   And I never heard it being demanded of Roman Catholics in NI for them to speak out.

But it was certainly condemned by RC leaders on mainland Britain Sassy. thats the difference as I see it.

In any case it was a very different 'religious' war....most IRA terrorists tried to kill without blowing themselves up.
Muslims extremists are willing to die themselves because they are promised 72  virgins when they die fighting in the name of Allah. I know thats a loose translation.....but if thats what they believe it's well worth dying for.

I was going to mention that actually. What has the IRA got to do with religion? Not much really.

eddie wrote:I was going to mention that actually. What has the IRA got to do with religion? Not much really.

It was done in the name of religion...just a good excuse to hang hatred on.

eddie wrote:I was going to mention that actually. What has the IRA got to do with religion? Not much really.

You are kidding right?   N.Ireland was separated to give an area to Protestants who wanted to be part of UK.  The IRA want it back to Ireland and are RC.   The whole of NI for donkey's years have been RC against Prods, even the police force at one time would only take Prodestants,

Syl wrote:

eddie wrote:I was going to mention that actually. What has the IRA got to do with religion? Not much really.

It was done in the name of religion...just a good excuse to hang hatred on.

Not the case, as it was about more nationalism, where even Catholics were victims of the IRA, many being knee capped.
In fact many people are unaware that the Northern Irish first welcomed the British Soldiers into Northern Ireland to help protect them from the violence and I mean the Catholics here, but both terrorist sgroups put paid to that by acts of violence

sassy wrote:

eddie wrote:I was going to mention that actually. What has the IRA got to do with religion? Not much really.

You are kidding right?   N.Ireland was separated to give an area to Protestants who wanted to be part of UK.  The IRA want it back to Ireland and are RC.   The whole of NI for donkey's years have been RC against Prods, even the police force at one time would only take Prodestants,

Didn't they also kill Catholics too?


Edit think Didge just said that lol

Paul Ettinger wrote:

Syl wrote:

It was done in the name of religion...just a good excuse to hang hatred on.

Not the case, as it was about more nationalism, where even Catholics were victims of the IRA, many being knee capped.
In fact many people are unaware that the Northern Irish first welcomed the British Soldiers into Northern Ireland to help protect them from the violence and I mean the Catholics here, but both terrorist sgroups put paid to that by acts of violence

It was still mostly the Catholics against the Protestants though.
Knee cappings were often done if one side fraternised with the other.

Syl wrote:

Paul Ettinger wrote:



Not the case, as it was about more nationalism, where even Catholics were victims of the IRA, many being knee capped.
In fact many people are unaware that the Northern Irish first welcomed the British Soldiers into Northern Ireland to help protect them from the violence and I mean the Catholics here, but both terrorist sgroups put paid to that by acts of violence

It was still mostly the Catholics against the Protestants though.
Knee cappings were often done if one side fraternised with the other.

Yes but it was about either being British or Irish.
Not many people know but at the height of the IRA campaign, about 20-25% of the British army was Catholic.
The religion hardly came into the equation, as it was about nationalism.
One people wanting to remain British, the other wanting a united Ireland, useing violence as the means to achieve this. There certainly was discrmination against Catholics in Northern Ireland, but again religion played very little of a part in the conflict

Islam, even in its BEST forms, is absolutely and totally incompatible with western style democracy.

In and of itself it denys democracy and human rights

it is a politico, religious order of things with NO seperation of church and state...no "secular" control is possible or admissible

it interferes with all aspects, placing cruel and vile "religious punishments" over human rights
It (as a religion) demands superior rights to the secular authorities

even now we see the infection of our laws with sharia laws......

Has there been a time of religious control, that had equality, democracy and no violent punishments?
So why ask a no brainer question, just see what Islam is like over the last 1400 years when in control

Edit, has seen Victor has brought it back on topic

Paul Ettinger wrote:

Syl wrote:

It was still mostly the Catholics against the Protestants though.
Knee cappings were often done if one side fraternised with the other.

Yes but it was about either being British or Irish.
Not many people know but at the height of the IRA campaign, about 20-25% of the British army was Catholic.
The religion hardly came into the equation, as it was about nationalism.
One people wanting to remain British, the other wanting a united Ireland, useing violence as the means to achieve this. There certainly was discrmination against Catholics in Northern Ireland, but again religion played very little of a part in the conflict

OK...I will bow to your superior knowledge about the bigger picture.
I do know when Manchester was bombed the religious aspect between the two religions was talked about as much as the Brit/Irish war.

Syl wrote:

Paul Ettinger wrote:


Yes but it was about either being British or Irish.
Not many people know but at the height of the IRA campaign, about 20-25% of the British army was Catholic.
The religion hardly came into the equation, as it was about nationalism.
One people wanting to remain British, the other wanting a united Ireland, useing violence as the means to achieve this. There certainly was discrmination against Catholics in Northern Ireland, but again religion played very little of a part in the conflict

OK...I will bow to your superior knowledge about the bigger picture.
I do know when Manchester was bombed the religious aspect between the two religions was talked about as much as the Brit/Irish war.

I agree that it was talked about that way over here often, and why there was also discrmination against the Irish here.
But there was no religious doctrine they were trying to justify the violence with.
I mean there is such a system of violence in the bible, called Herem, which is genoicide, and it was certainly used as a reason during the crusades, but you would be hard pressed to find many justify the violence with religious doctrine during the height of the violence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herem_%28war_or_property%29

Lord Foul wrote:Islam, even in its BEST forms, is absolutely and totally incompatible with western style democracy.

In and of itself it denys democracy and human rights

it is a politico, religious order of things with NO seperation of church and state...no "secular" control is possible or admissible

it interferes with all aspects, placing cruel and vile "religious punishments" over human rights
It (as a religion) demands superior rights to the secular authorities

even now we see the infection of our laws with sharia laws......

Too much honest truth for many here to take in Victor...


It will hurt their tiny/controlled minds too much...!

sassy wrote:

Syl wrote:I think any religion that brain washes people into believing only their faith is the right faith and everyone else is wrong is dangerous.

That covers just about every faith then.

Which faiths? Which faith condones murder in this day and age?

HoratioTarr wrote:

sassy wrote:


That covers just about every faith then.

Which faiths?   Which faith condones murder in this day and age?  

Would you like to actually read what Syl said.

Paul Ettinger wrote:

Syl wrote:

It was still mostly the Catholics against the Protestants though.
Knee cappings were often done if one side fraternised with the other.

Yes but it was about either being British or Irish.
Not many people know but at the height of the IRA campaign, about 20-25% of the British army was Catholic.
The religion hardly came into the equation, as it was about nationalism.
One people wanting to remain British, the other wanting a united Ireland, useing violence as the means to achieve this. There certainly was discrmination against Catholics in Northern Ireland, but again religion played very little of a part in the conflict

Yes, it was a territorial conflict, not a religious one.

sassy wrote:

Syl wrote:

Yes it does Sassy...I still remember when my city was blown up in the name of religion.

Sadly some religions encourage terrorism more than others.....I think it's confusing that so few Muslims speak out (or do so half heartedly) against  the brain washed who mar what should be a peaceful religion (if translated correctly) and are then seen to encourage it.  

Yep, I remember the bombs in London by the IRA.  Syl, if you think they don't speak out, very vocally, it's because it doesn't get covered half as much as the wrongs.   And I never heard it being demanded of Roman Catholics in NI for them to speak out.

IRA terrorism was nothing to do with religious faith. Some people would like it to be so they can point the finger at religion - specifically Christianity.

sassy wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Which faiths?   Which faith condones murder in this day and age?  

Would you like to actually read what Syl said.

Nowhere does Syl say that all religions condone the murder of women, the rape of children, death for apostasy and the execution of homosexuals. Perhaps you know a religion or religions that do?

Raggamuffin wrote:

sassy wrote:

Syl wrote:

Yes it does Sassy...I still remember when my city was blown up in the name of religion.

Sadly some religions encourage terrorism more than others.....I think it's confusing that so few Muslims speak out (or do so half heartedly) against  the brain washed who mar what should be a peaceful religion (if translated correctly) and are then seen to encourage it.  

Yep, I remember the bombs in London by the IRA.  Syl, if you think they don't speak out, very vocally, it's because it doesn't get covered half as much as the wrongs.   And I never heard it being demanded of Roman Catholics in NI for them to speak out.

IRA terrorism was nothing to do with religious faith. Some people would like it to be so they can point the finger at religion - specifically Christianity.

Actually, you ahve that slightly wrong (or at least you miss the REASON it is so) and that reason is......not so much to specifically attack christianity so much as to be able to say....."oh look islam isnt really so bad"...the seek to excuse the excesses of islam, and deflect from its failings by making the irish troubles a christian murder fest

HoratioTarr wrote:

sassy wrote:


Would you like to actually read what Syl said.

Nowhere does Syl say that all religions condone the murder of women, the rape of children, death for apostasy  and the execution of homosexuals.   Perhaps you know a religion or religions that do?

What Syl actuall said was:

I think any religion that brain washes people into believing only their faith is the right faith and everyone else is wrong is dangerous.

Now you tell me a faith that thinks is wrong and the others are right.

And the Old Testament approves all of the above.


And read the Talmud

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_violence

As someone who was around when the IRA were bombing, to say it had nothing to do with faith is complete self deception.

Lord Foul wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

IRA terrorism was nothing to do with religious faith. Some people would like it to be so they can point the finger at religion - specifically Christianity.

Actually, you ahve that slightly wrong (or at least you miss the REASON it is so) and that reason is......not so much to specifically attack christianity so much as to be able to say....."oh look islam isnt really so bad"...the seek to excuse the excesses of islam, and deflect from its failings by making the irish troubles a christian murder fest

A fair point.

And let's not forget the bloody history of Papal Rome.

The only "religeon" that calls for death for a number of so called infringements of their beliefs is Islam, and anyone who denies that is either a fool or a liar1

why not sassy, and while we are at it why not include the bloody history of paganism in the past, what with human sacrifice, cannibalism etc...

how far back DO you want to go in your efforts to diminish the evils of islam, by comparing the PRESENT DAY activities to things that happend 100's if not 1000's of years ago...

a tactic spawned of desperation.....and not relevant....

UNLESS...of course you are prepared to admit that the islamists are primitives

sassy wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Nowhere does Syl say that all religions condone the murder of women, the rape of children, death for apostasy  and the execution of homosexuals.   Perhaps you know a religion or religions that do?

What Syl actuall said was:

I think any religion that brain washes people into believing only their faith is the right faith and everyone else is wrong is dangerous.

Now you tell me a faith that thinks is wrong and the others are right.

And the Old Testament approves all of the above.


And read the Talmud

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_violence

I think all religion should be banned. But that's just my opinion. I cannot think of anything more ridiculous to the human state to slavishly follow a creed invented by sexually frustrated power mad men.

However, religion in the West isn't the animal it was 500 years ago and we are talking modern religion here, and not the medieval kind? Excepting Islam of course, which clings doggedly to the old ways. I don't seem to recall the Catholic Church chucking any homo's off tall buildings recently or insisting on arranged marriages and polygamy. Does the Jewish faith insist on killing you if you decide to leave it? You may know better than me on that one.

While Judaism contains commandments to exterminate idol worship, according to all rabbinic authorities, Islam contains no trace of idolatry. Rabbi Hayim David HaLevi stated that in modern times no one matches the biblical definition of an idolater, and therefore ruled that Jews in Israel have a moral responsibility to treat all citizens with the highest standards of humanity

sassy wrote:And let's not forget the bloody history of Papal Rome.

Well, that's the key, isn't it? History. What happened 400 years ego, shouldn't really be taking place in this day and age, should it? Islam seems to think it does. They haven't moved on.

HoratioTarr wrote:

sassy wrote:


What Syl actuall said was:

I think any religion that brain washes people into believing only their faith is the right faith and everyone else is wrong is dangerous.

Now you tell me a faith that thinks is wrong and the others are right.

And the Old Testament approves all of the above.


And read the Talmud

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_violence

I think all religion should be banned.  But that's just my opinion.  I cannot think of anything more ridiculous to the human state to slavishly follow a creed invented by sexually frustrated power mad men.  

However,  religion in the West isn't the animal it was 500 years ago and we are talking modern religion here, and not the medieval kind?   Excepting Islam of course, which clings doggedly to the old ways.  I don't seem to recall the Catholic Church chucking any homo's off tall buildings recently or insisting on arranged marriages and polygamy.  Does the Jewish faith insist on killing you if you decide to leave it?  You may know better than me on that one.

While Judaism contains commandments to exterminate idol worship, according to all rabbinic authorities, Islam contains no trace of idolatry. Rabbi Hayim David HaLevi stated that in modern times no one matches the biblical definition of an idolater, and therefore ruled that Jews in Israel have a moral responsibility to treat all citizens with the highest standards of humanity

I'll try to avoid the sexually frustrated men.

sassy wrote:As someone who was around when the IRA were bombing, to say it had nothing to do with faith is complete self deception.

Considering you arer insulting every British and Irish for that matter posters, who are all old enough to have lived through the conflict in Northern Ireland and have this effect my family, let me just say, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Like Victor has said, you are more concerned at deflecting blame onto other religions, ignoring the blatant fact, many Christians also are secularists.
Yes you still have some Christian extremkists in the US, but they are not killing tens of thousands each year as Islamic terrorism is.

Raggamuffin wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

I think all religion should be banned.  But that's just my opinion.  I cannot think of anything more ridiculous to the human state to slavishly follow a creed invented by sexually frustrated power mad men.  

However,  religion in the West isn't the animal it was 500 years ago and we are talking modern religion here, and not the medieval kind?   Excepting Islam of course, which clings doggedly to the old ways.  I don't seem to recall the Catholic Church chucking any homo's off tall buildings recently or insisting on arranged marriages and polygamy.  Does the Jewish faith insist on killing you if you decide to leave it?  You may know better than me on that one.

While Judaism contains commandments to exterminate idol worship, according to all rabbinic authorities, Islam contains no trace of idolatry. Rabbi Hayim David HaLevi stated that in modern times no one matches the biblical definition of an idolater, and therefore ruled that Jews in Israel have a moral responsibility to treat all citizens with the highest standards of humanity

I'll try to avoid the sexually frustrated men.

From what we read plenty of them get more than your average man in the street anyway.

Wow, some lively discussion in this thread. Thanks, sincerely.

Lord Foul wrote:Islam, even in its BEST forms, is absolutely and totally incompatible with western style democracy.

In and of itself it denys democracy and human rights

it is a politico, religious order of things with NO seperation of church and state...no "secular" control is possible or admissible

it interferes with all aspects, placing cruel and vile "religious punishments" over human rights
It (as a religion) demands superior rights to the secular authorities

even now we see the infection of our laws with sharia laws......

no more so that every other Abrahamic religion

And it is coming out that Clearly Muslims are Split and increasing majority are embracing secularism and adpating Islam to secularist ideals (just like Christians had too do not that long ago)
sure the Conservative are wetting their pants in the typical Conservative fashion fear of progress and progressive policy is hardly uniquie to islam. Cowardly fools of any denotmination submit to their base fears and embrace fear driven conservative mind sets. that seeks to keep their tribe the way it WAS, to prevent change and keep the

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/awards/logies/extremist-group-hizb-uttahrir-has-slammed-waleed-alys-gold-logie-win/news-story/9ecb478cfef394f8c4103fb73fd09e98

Doureihi says Australians have been dividing Muslims into ‘good’ and ‘bad’ — those who support a secular democracy, and those who support establishing an Islamic State-like ‘Caliphate’, respectively.

He describes Aly as the former, saying ‘good Muslims’ will soon “start to look down upon the very people they originally sought to assist”.

“Waleed Aly’s Gold Logie, rather than being a cause for celebration, is a cause for commiseration,” he writes.

“To Waleed, for being a victim of the government’s self serving identity politics, and for the Muslim community, in failing people like Waleed by making secular politics look more appealing than Islamic politics.”

He stressed this is nothing personal against the TV presenter, describing him as “thoroughly intelligent and respectable”, and a man who carries himself with “the utmost integrity”.

and what do the youth see, they see Aly on TV winning awards and celebrated by the broader community. And when he is attacked by 'white' racist other 'whites' defend him.

So the proof is in the pudding Islam is no threat to the Multicultural west, even they acknowledge they are losing to secularism and they obviously have no idea how to defend against it because all they did is attack someone they wanted to come back to them, and isolated and alienated themselves further.

there is no real threat from Islam, it will break itself against us long before it breaks us.


If you don't know who Whaleed Aly is, he is sometimes called 'Aussie Jon Stewart' or 'the Brown John Oliver' and there are pletny of great Clips on Youtube

HoratioTarr wrote:

sassy wrote:And let's not forget the bloody history of Papal Rome.

Well, that's the key, isn't it?  History.   What happened 400 years ego, shouldn't really be taking place in this day and age, should it?   Islam seems to think it does.   They haven't moved on.

this attitude is the problem with Europe
Expecting other to 'move on'.
when you don't yourselves on many issues (see tommy's Pat condel posts)
you are currently at an unfair advantage (that is going thus the decline in european wealth)
and Everyone else is Still growing they will move on when they are finished, the deaths caused by islamic terorism are low by comparison to European Terroism that engulfed the world, Yes you guys call it the colonial period and white wash it like it was good for the peoples you murdered, everyone else calls it the invasions and acknowledges the barbarity and violence of Europe during that time.

Until there is reparation paid you have no right to expect others to move on. It is like a thief telling someone who's house they robbed to "just move on, whats the probelm? why cant we just move on from this point where i have all your stuff?"

OP - no. All extremism whether religious or secular is evil.

As to NI, yes it was about religion and about being part if a free state or staying part of the UK.

Syl wrote:
I think any religion that brain washes people into believing only their faith is the right faith and everyone else is wrong is dangerous.

:

THERE GOES ABOUT 30% of all major religions !!!

Fundamentalist/Evangelist Christians,
Fundamentalist Muslims,
Extremist/Separatist Hindus and Sikhs,
Zionists,
Militant/Marxist Buddhists..


N.B. "Brainwashing" !?!
Afraid not, Syl -- the correct term is Indoctrination.
SOME of you need to do yourself a favour, and actually learn the correct meaning of some of those often misused words !

Syl wrote:

eddie wrote:
I was going to mention that actually. What has the IRA got to do with religion? Not much really.

It was done in the name of religion...just a good excuse to hang hatred on.

FUCKING BULLSHIT...

IT WAS done in the name of kicking British occupation forces out of a foreign country..

IT'S idiotic warmongering bigots like you who prolong conflicts that should never have started in the first place.

Syl wrote:

Paul Ettinger wrote:



Not the case, as it was about more nationalism, where even Catholics were victims of the IRA, many being knee capped.
In fact many people are unaware that the Northern Irish first welcomed the British Soldiers into Northern Ireland to help protect them from the violence and I mean the Catholics here, but both terrorist sgroups put paid to that by acts of violence

It was still mostly the Catholics against the Protestants though.
Knee cappings were often done if one side fraternised with the other.

YOU'RE deliberately lying through your bigoted teeth, Syl...

Pure and simple..

Tommy Monk wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:
Islam, even in its BEST forms, is absolutely and totally incompatible with western style democracy.

In and of itself it denys democracy and human rights

it is a politico, religious order of things with NO seperation of church and state...no "secular" control is possible or admissible

it interferes with all aspects, placing cruel and vile "religious punishments" over human rights
It (as a religion) demands superior rights to the secular authorities

even now we see the infection of our laws with sharia laws......

Too much honest truth for many here to take in Victor...


It will hurt their tiny/controlled minds too much...!

SO SAYS Tommy Monk..

THE Most seriously "mind....controlled" lapdog sockpuppet on this forum !

Cass wrote:OP - no. All extremism whether religious or secular is evil.

As to NI, yes it was about religion and about being part if a free state or staying part of the UK.

Sorry buit feeling sorry for where a poster is wrong and trying to stick up for them is nobel but does not mean what you say is correct.
In facts its poor to say the least Cass.
Again show me the religious doctrines driving each side?
Show me the religious doctrine used to justify the violence by each side?
I mean what you are claiming for example was Catholic terrorism, with the IRA, which again many of the British soldiers who fought against the IRA were Catholic also.
Again this was about nationalism, where its beginnings certainly were born out of religion, by the time of the violene at the height of the IRA camapaign it had very little to do with religion at all nd i find it appalling that apologists continue to bring this up as a means of somehow defending Islamic terrorism, which is formed and born out of religious doctrine.
I mean the IRA worked with other terrorist organisations, which shows again it had very little to do with religion.
In fact many connections to the Ulster Volunteer force were from the Far right in the UK, groups like Combat 18.
Showing this was always about sectarian nationalist violence.
You may understanjd history very well, but do not spoil your repretation with posting poor claims, just to help a buddy out