Teachers 'should tell pupils to stop fasting during Ramadan'

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:54 pm

Teachers should tell Muslim schoolchildren to break Ramadan fast if they fear health issues will hurt exam results, new guidance has suggested.

Children should be told that extra devotions are "voluntary" whereas "exams are obligatory" and advised not to stay up “all night praying” to avoid being too tired, according to advice published by the Associations of School and College Leaders (ASCL). The advice followed fears that Muslim students may be suffering from dehydration or hunger when they take crucial exams this summer as it overlaps with Ramadan, when Muslims fast during daylight hours. Ramadan has been gradually moving into the summer exams season in England - which runs from the end of May and throughout most of June - over the last few years and will do so for the next few years. This year the period when Muslims observe fasting will fall between June 6 and July 5, which coincides when many of the summer exams take place for the first time in more than three decades.
In light of this shift, ASCL, together with Islamic scholars, imams and chaplains has published unprecedented advice where the health of children is placed above religious considerations during the exam season.

'Children should stop fasting if there are signs of dehydration'

ASCL, which represents more than 18,000 head teachers and college leaders, said: “If the school notices signs of dehydration or exhaustion then the child should be asked if they are fasting and advised to terminate the fast immediately by drinking some water.

“They can be reassured that in this situation Islamic rulings allow them to break their fast and make it up later.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/04/19/teachers-should-tell-pupils-to-stop-fasting-during-ramadan/

by eddie Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:21 pm

I don’t know about you, but I enjoy being a human. I like contemplating my own existence, being entertained for hours by strange scribblings on layered sheets of dried and pressed wood pulp, and playing Ultimate Frisbee, and if I’m going to continue to enjoy those things, I need to protect my brain and keep it healthy. And if I want to enjoy myself on this planet and experience all it has to offer until I drop dead, I’m going to need as much brain function as possible (since, you know, the brain handles all that experimenting stuff) as I age. Luckily, fasting appears to offer three main protective and therapeutic benefits to the brain:

Fasting Boosts Neuronal Autophagy

I’ve cited this study before, but I’ll do it again because it’s central to the theme of today’s post: “short-term fasting induces profound neuronal autophagy.” Autophagy, or “self-eating,” is the process by which cells recycle waste material, downregulate wasteful processes, and repair themselves. Brain health is highly dependent on neuronal autophagy. In fact, a recent paper shows that deletion of an “essential autophagy gene” in the hypothalamic neurons of fetal mice resulted in metabolic derangement (more body fat, poor glucose tolerance) and impaired neuronal development. Another study shows that disruption of neuronal autophagy induces neurodegeneration. Simply put, without the process of autophagy, brains neither develop properly nor function the way they should.

Fasting Increases Levels of Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF)

BDNF is a protein that interacts with neurons in the hippocampus, cortex, and basal forebrain (the parts of the brain that regulate memory, learning, and higher cognitive function – uniquely human stuff). It helps existing neurons survive while spurring the growth of new neurons (neurogenesis) and the development of synapses (lines of communication between neurons). Low levels of BDNF are linked to Alzheimer’s, and supplementary BDNF prevents neuronal death, memory loss, and cognitive impairment in an animal model of Alzheimer’s disease.

Fasting Increases Production of Ketones

Ketone bodies like hydroxybutyrate are famously neuroprotective, and fasting often induces ketosis.

Increased autophagy and BDNF and ketones from fasting sounds awesome, but do they manifest as actual benefits to neurological health? Let’s see what the research says.

No discussion of fasting and neurological health research is complete (or can even be initiated) without including Mark Mattson. Mattson, chief neuroscientist at the National Institute on Aging, has been releasing paper after paper on the neurological effects of intermittent fasting for the past dozen years, and he’s amassed an impressive body of work that suggests IF can induce neurogenesis and protect against brain injury and disease. In the following sections, I’ll discuss the evidence – from Mattson and other researchers – for the beneficial effects of fasting on neurological health across a spectrum of conditions.

Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/fasting-brain-function/#ixzz46TG3QoUB

by eddie Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:23 pm

Improve Brain Function and Productivity with Fasting

The research is clear: Fasting helps to ward off the odds of neurodegenerative diseases. In fact, even if you have no interest in losing weight or gaining muscle, the positive benefits of fasting on the brain alone merit your great consideration. In fact, fasting puts mild stresses on brain cells, similar to how exercise does on the muscles.

Your brain grows stronger and more resistant to neurodegenerative diseases through fasting. Fasting works to improve your neural circuitry, bolster concentration, and enhance focus.

A common objection to fasting is the false notion that you won't be able to concentrate when you're hungry. And although this may be true at first, all the evidence points to the contrary in the long run. Those individuals who stick it out and adapt to a fasting lifestyle often report improved attention span, concentration, and focus.

Regenerating the brain

Fasting keeps the brain healthy in more than one way. Here are just a few of the major benefits fasting has on the brain — the center of the nervous system and the very thing that separates humans from apes, monkeys, and congressmen:

Fasting upsurges a process known as autophagy. Think of autophagy as a sort of cellular waste removal service. It disposes of damaged molecules, ones that may be tied to neurological diseases. Really, it's the brain's way of taking out the trash, and without it, the garbage piles up. Through fasting, this cellular cleansing may run its course, ensuring that the brain both develops and functions optimally.

Fasting increases a protein known as brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF). BDNF prevents stressed neurons from dying. Low levels of BDNF have been linked to Alzheimer's, dementia, and other cognitive disorders.

Fasting also spurs the growth of new brain cells. This process, known as neurogenesis, helps to establish new connections in the brain and may very well improve your cognitive abilities.

The brain follows the same “use it or lose it” principle that muscles do. If you want to keep your brain strong and healthy, you have to stress it from time to time. Fasting (along with physical exercise and mental exercises) can help you.

Increasing your productivity

Food is a distraction. So imagine now, briefly, how much time you would save and how much more work you would get done if you didn't have to eat. Fasting allows you to focus. It sets your mind on a smooth and steady course, so to speak.

You don't have to worry about what's for breakfast, or where you're going to get lunch. Those concerns become obsolete — at least on your fasting days.

Some scientific circles believe that during the morning and for most of the daytime, people are meant to be on the move, expending energy (hunting and gathering, if you will). Only when night comes along are people meant to eat, relax, and recuperate. Some say this is the natural order of things, or a human's natural biorhythm.

After you discover how to get in tune with your hunger, which may take a couple of days or even a few weeks, you can find that concentration comes easy, in fact easier than it probably ever did before. Some scientists believe this concentration factor is linked to a sort of primal mechanism.

That is, hunger provides impetus to get work done, which makes sense, because hunger compels one to hunt and to scavenge. Hunger clearly requires focus.

Think about it another way. What do you want to do after a big lunch? You probably want to take a big nap. After you eat, your body releases certain hormones that quite often make you feel sleepy. Surely you know that feeling. And you should also note that digestion itself requires much energy that you could otherwise direct toward more productive endeavors.

Hunger can be a distraction as well, but through fasting, you can train yourself to embrace hunger and discover how to use it to your advantage.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/improve-brain-function-and-productivity-with-fasting

by 'Wolfie Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:45 pm

IF teachers down here tried picking on, or singling out, their students on strickly religious grounds, with any religion, I think they could find themselves in trouble with anti-discrimination laws.

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:04 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

IF teachers down here tried picking on, or singling out, their students on strickly religious grounds, with any religion, I think they could find themselves in trouble with anti-discrimination laws.

Really?
So placing the child's health is of a lesser importance than a belief now?

Cuckoo

by eddie Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:02 pm

Did you not see the links I provided about fasting being good for the brain?
You're not very clued up on the human body.
I've noticed that.

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:13 pm

eddie wrote:Did you not see the links I provided about fasting being good for the brain?
You're not very clued up on the human body.
I've noticed that.

Really?
Humans fast every night when we sleep, so I am well aware what the body can do, but in children where they go without drink and food for lengths of time it can be dangerous, espcially in the height of summer. Just as much as your knowledge and advice is dangerous on anything medical

by Fuzzy Zack Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:26 pm

didge wrote:
eddie wrote:Did you not see the links I provided about fasting being good for the brain?
You're not very clued up on the human body.
I've noticed that.

Really?
Humans fast every night when we sleep, so I am well aware what the body can do, but in children where they go without drink and food for lengths of time it can be dangerous, espcially in the height of summer. Just as much as your knowledge and advice is dangerous on anything medical

I also noticed that you haven't addressed a single point in Eddie's post.

Try again. tongue

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:28 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
didge wrote:

Really?
Humans fast every night when we sleep, so I am well aware what the body can do, but in children where they go without drink and food for lengths of time it can be dangerous, espcially in the height of summer. Just as much as your knowledge and advice is dangerous on anything medical

I also noticed that you haven't addressed a single point in Eddie's post.

Try again.

Because her points were irrelevant to the dangers of children going lengths of time without food and drink, hence why this has been even drawn up by the Muslim Council of Britain.
I am not bothered about her points on fasting for adults, but in children this again is dangerous, which she tried to claim I did not know anything when clearly her missing the danger is far more relevant

Dr Sheik Howjat Ramzy, director of Iqra Institute in Oxford and one of the consultees, said: "It's not up to the schools to decide the advice they give around Ramadan and I find some of it very aggressive because you cannot break the child's fast except in special situations. If you offer aggressive advice, then the parents will be very aggressive towards you.

However, he said some of the advice was reasonable. He added: "If anyone is very dehydrated, then have a glass of water and you will be forgiven. Also it isn't necessary for children to stay up late at all. It's a tradition, not compulsory."

Sir Iqbal Sacranie, the former head of the Muslim Council of Britain who also took part in the drafting of the document, said: "The consultation has been widespread and recommendations have been made after consulting different schools of thought and very importantly the ideological view points have been taken into account."

ASCL stressed the document should be treated as ‘information’ rather than guidance and should be used as each school saw fit.

ASCL said: "Islam encourages critical reasoning and while individuals may seek advice from religious leaders they have the right to make their own decision. The paper presents various positions from which parents and young people can draw their practice."

by Major Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:30 pm

How would a teacher know if farting will hurt exam results?

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:34 pm

Discussion
Fasting means different things to different people. Usually it is refraining from eating and/or drinking for a period of time, or abstaining from certain foods or drinks. Fasting can be caused by physiology (i.e. sleeping), volitional (i.e. due to personal preferences, religious reasons, political protests, etc.) or non-volitional (i.e. pre-surgical fasting, lack of water or food availability, etc.).

An energy source, especially for the brain, and fluid are necessary to maintain a healthy body. If someone is denying calories, after a few hours, glucose that is readily available from the digestive system is depleted. Gluconeongenesis then begins utilizing stores mainly within the liver (gluconeogenesis occurs for hours to days). If the fast continues, then protein is utilized for gluconeogenesis from the muscles (protein utilization occurs for hours to weeks). If the fast continues again, then fat is used as a ketone energy source (fat utilization occurs for days to weeks). With prolonged fasts muscle and fat wasting thus happen. If someone is denying free fluid, then over time dehydration occurs with increased thirst, oliguria/anuria, muscle spasms, cardiac abnormalities, mental status changes, respiratory changes and possible death if not treated.

Fasting combined with other practices may decrease the onset time before the effects occur. For example, fasting and purposeful sweating can increase the severity of dehydration. Fasting along with taking purgatory medications may increase fluid loss and electrolyte abnormalities.

Fasting as a religious/cultural practice can have many benefits including discipline, self-sacrifice, social belonging, and an increased awareness of one’s own spiritual beliefs.

Learning Point
Children can be at particular risk for fasting problems because of their smaller size, surface area, increased metabolic needs, and inability to communicate or help themselves to obtain food and/or fluid. Other individuals are also more vulnerable including the elderly, pregnant and nursing women, and those with temporary or chronic medical conditions. Children have been shown to have decreased cognitive function with short fasts (i.e. skipping breakfast).

Most religious and cultural groups recognize these vulnerable populations and make appropriate exceptions to fasting requirements. For example, Islam recognizes fasting should not occur during Ramadan, for example, for those who are pre-pubertal, mentally ill, elderly, those that are sick, those that are traveling, pregnant or breastfeeding women or women who are menstruating. Judaism recognizes fasting should not occur during Yom Kippur, for example, for those who are pre-pubertal, the elderly, those that are sick, and women who are early post-partum.

Some religious/cultural groups recommend that children nearing puberty begin to do some fasting for them to learn about the physical changes and to participate in the social/spiritual aspects of the practice. They usually do not fast for as long a time as adults though, i.e. a few hours instead of daylight hours or 24 hours for example. Most groups also recommend individuals discuss their personal situation with their medical professionals and spiritual advisors regarding their ability to safely fast.

https://pediatriceducation.org/2011/10/10/when-should-children-begin-fasting/

by eddie Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:51 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
didge wrote:
eddie wrote:Did you not see the links I provided about fasting being good for the brain?
You're not very clued up on the human body.
I've noticed that.

Really?
Humans fast every night when we sleep, so I am well aware what the body can do, but in children where they go without drink and food for lengths of time it can be dangerous, espcially in the height of summer. Just as much as your knowledge and advice is dangerous on anything medical

I also noticed that you haven't addressed a single point in Eddie's post.

Try again.

The only points that are ever RELEVANT are Didge's points.
If Didge didn't google it, or read it first, then the point is MOOT.

If Bill the scientist said "A is A" Didge has read it before you, then Bill is right.

If on another thread, Didge says Bob the scientist says something and you say "but Bill the scientist, you know the one you BELIEVED the other day? well he says..."
Then Didge will no longer believe Bill, even though he believed Bill the day before.

See how his logic works?

....Anyway his wind blows.....

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:53 pm

eddie wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

I also noticed that you haven't addressed a single point in Eddie's post.

Try again.

The only points that are ever RELEVANT are Didge's points.
Cuckoo reply
If Didge didn't google it, or read it first, then the point is MOOT.
More Cuckoo reply

If Bill the scientist said "A is A" Didge has read it before you, then Bill is right.

If on another thread, Didge says Bob the scientist says something and you say "but Bill the scientist, you know the one you BELIEVED the other day? well he says..."
Then Didge will no longer believe Bill, even though he believed Bill the day before.

See how his logic works?

....Anyway his wind blows.....

So the only thing that needs to be asked is one simple thing

Are children far more susceptible to problems when fasting

Yes or no Eddie?

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:54 pm

eddie wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

I also noticed that you haven't addressed a single point in Eddie's post.

Try again.

The only points that are ever RELEVANT are Didge's points.
If Didge didn't google it, or read it first, then the point is MOOT.

If Bill the scientist said "A is A" Didge has read it before you, then Bill is right.

If on another thread, Didge says Bob the scientist says something and you say "but Bill the scientist, you know the one you BELIEVED the other day? well he says..."
Then Didge will no longer believe Bill, even though he believed Bill the day before.

See how his logic works?

....Anyway his wind blows.....

I think he suffers from motion sickness going this way and that all the time.

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:55 pm

sassy wrote:
eddie wrote:

The only points that are ever RELEVANT are Didge's points.
If Didge didn't google it, or read it first, then the point is MOOT.

If Bill the scientist said "A is A" Didge has read it before you, then Bill is right.

If on another thread, Didge says Bob the scientist says something and you say "but Bill the scientist, you know the one you BELIEVED the other day? well he says..."
Then Didge will no longer believe Bill, even though he believed Bill the day before.

See how his logic works?

....Anyway his wind blows.....

I think he suffers from motion sickness going this way and that all the time.

Wow sassy, how ever do you come up with such wit lol

How about answering whether children are more susceptible to problems when fasting

Which is what this is all about

by eddie Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:08 pm

I've put up links Didge
Up to you if you want to think to yourself

"Do I know more than the people who wrote those articles?"

Then bore off.

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:10 pm

eddie wrote:I've put up links Didge
Up to you if you want to think to yourself

"Do I know more than the people who wrote those articles?"

Then bore off.

I am asking you a very simple question which again you go to extraordinary lengths to avoid answering

Its not difficult to answer

Either yes or no

Are you seriously telling me now you know more than pediatricians?

Grow the fuck up

by eddie Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:17 pm

Oh shut up Didge and stick a tampax up your arse for goodness sake.

I've put up links (and there are far more) to show your OP is bollocks and another reason for you to have a dog at religion.

You're becoming obsessed with religion.
And Muslims.
And Jews.
And Christians
And girls is short skirts.

Perhaps you have a problem.

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:19 pm

eddie wrote:Oh shut up Didge and stick a tampax up your arse for goodness sake.

I've put up links (and there are far more) to show your OP is bollocks and another reason for you to have a dog at religion.

You're becoming obsessed with religion.
And Muslims.
And Jews.
And Christians
And girls is short skirts.

Perhaps you have a problem.

Again grow the fuck up

How is having the interest of children at heart being against Muslims?

Again it shows you are being one ignorant idiot

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:47 pm

Now at no point did I ever say there is anything wrong with fasting to the immature Eddie

I did say there is increased risks with children hence why even Muslims have given guidelines, dispelling her poor attempt to post about me and not the issue.

But to even show more why this is a concern especially in the summer months is because people do actually become ill.
Its not having a go at any religion but safeguarding children's health

Accident and emergency cases

An increased number of Muslims attended the Accident and Emergency department of a British hospital during the month of Ramadan compared to similar time periods before and after Ramadan (Langford et al, 1994). This finding may be the result of the mood changes (Afifi, 1997; Kadri et al, 2000;Roky et al, 2000) and decrease in cognitive function (Ali & Amir, 1989) resulting from the alteration in dietary habit during Ramadan. Interestingly, a retrospective examination of all road traffic casualties seen at a local hospital in Al-Ain City, United Arab Emirates, over a 12-month period, found that there was a greater number of injuries during Ramadan than during other months (Bener et al, 1992).

http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v57/n2s/full/1601899a.html

There is plenty more to read which again highlights the risks and even more so when it comes to children

Now i am done trying to reason with such an idiot
She can crap on all she likes, the evidence is there for people to see for themselves

by Fuzzy Zack Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:06 pm

Firstly, the article is not taking about prepubescent children. So Didge's point is actually moot. Lol!

The article is referring to GCSE and A Level students.

Secondly: anybody, regardless of age should stop fasting at the first sign of ill health.

Fasting in Islam is not suppose to kill you. As Eddie has mentioned, there are many physioclogical benefits. And Islamically, spiritual benefits too.

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:14 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Firstly, the article is not taking about prepubescent children. So Didge's point is actually moot. Lol!
Wrong, its not moot, hence why are they advising if not there is a risk to children's health? Doh Which you even contradict yourself on below

The article is referring to GCSE and A Level students.
Who are still at risk, as even adults suffer from fasting

Secondly: anybody, regardless of age should stop fasting at the first sign of ill health.
But some do not, because some sadly will believe they should carry on, which is even more a concern with some children, which by the way children are anyone under 18

Fasting in Islam is not suppose to kill you. As Eddie has mentioned, there are many physioclogical benefits. And Islamically, spiritual benefits too.

Nobody is claiming there is not benefits, what is being stated is the risks, of which you have not denied

Or did that not escape you

by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:25 pm

There seem to be a lot of successful Muslims in the world, who presumably either fasted during Ramadan while they were in school, or avoided fasting because it caused health issues. Presumably, they got similar advice to what's being given now, so I don't see what the big deal is scratch

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:28 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:There seem to be a lot of successful Muslims in the world, who presumably either fasted during Ramadan while they were in school, or avoided fasting because it caused health issues. Presumably, they got similar advice to what's being given now, so I don't see what the big deal is

Hmmm, nothing to do with wanting the best for the children and them being fit and able to pass their exams I suppose?

If some are dehydrated, they are not exactly going to be able to concentrate properly in exams Ben

Jesus Christ, why are people so slow at times

by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:35 pm

didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:There seem to be a lot of successful Muslims in the world, who presumably either fasted during Ramadan while they were in school, or avoided fasting because it caused health issues. Presumably, they got similar advice to what's being given now, so I don't see what the big deal is

Hmmm, nothing to do with wanting the best for the children and them being fit and able to pass their exams I suppose?

If some are dehydrated, they are not exactly going to be able to concentrate properly in exams Ben

Jesus Christ, why are people so slow at times

Apparently, wanting the best for these students, they are being advised to break the fast if it causes health issues that interferes with their exams.

Did I read that wrong? Is there something else going on here? Or do you just have a hard-on against fasting now, because it's a religious expression?

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:38 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
didge wrote:

Hmmm, nothing to do with wanting the best for the children and them being fit and able to pass their exams I suppose?

If some are dehydrated, they are not exactly going to be able to concentrate properly in exams Ben

Jesus Christ, why are people so slow at times

Apparently, wanting the best for these students, they are being advised to break the fast if it causes health issues that interferes with their exams.

Did I read that wrong? Is there something else going on here? Or do you just have a hard-on against fasting now, because it's a religious expression?

Yes for specific reasons as well, because the UK Summer hours last that much longer than in many Middle eastern countries
I mean you do realize that it brings on migraines and children may not well recognise they are suffering dehydration.

Right you little prick, show me where I am against fasting?

Then you can apologies for being a little lying prick

by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:39 pm

People from the Middle East can't handle a UK summer now? What, is it just too balmy for them?

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:41 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:People from the Middle East can't handle a UK summer now? What, is it just too balmy for them?

Are you really that thick on the point of hours of sunlight,. over how long they fast.

Do you need me to spell it out for you?

So I see you have not the balls to back up you false claim or the guts to apologise

Crawl back under that little hole you came from you pathetic little prick

by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:51 pm

didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:People from the Middle East can't handle a UK summer now? What, is it just too balmy for them?

Are you really that thick on the point of hours of sunlight,. over how long they fast.

Do you need me to spell it out for you?

So I see you have not the balls to back up you false claim or the guts to apologise

Crawl back under that little hole you came from you pathetic little prick

Ooh, cranky!

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:53 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
didge wrote:

Are you really that thick on the point of hours of sunlight,. over how long they fast.

Do you need me to spell it out for you?

So I see you have not the balls to back up you false claim or the guts to apologise

Crawl back under that little hole you came from you pathetic little prick

Ooh, cranky!

No I just abhor stupidity and people who cannot back up false claims

In June there is 16.5 hours of daylight in June on average in the UK, which far exceeds what will be in many Islamic countries.

Has this point sunk in yet?

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:54 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
didge wrote:

Are you really that thick on the point of hours of sunlight,. over how long they fast.

Do you need me to spell it out for you?

So I see you have not the balls to back up you false claim or the guts to apologise

Crawl back under that little hole you came from you pathetic little prick

Ooh, cranky!

He's back in thug melt down mode - perhaps he's fasting lol

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:55 pm

sassy wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Ooh, cranky!

He's back in thug melt down mode - perhaps he's fasting lol

No darling, I am justy showing up ben as being quite brainless on this

How anyone cannot see the risks, shows they really are blinded more about posting at me than seeing sense on this

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:02 pm

didge wrote:
sassy wrote:

He's back in thug melt down mode - perhaps he's fasting lol

No darling, I am justy showing up ben as being quite brainless on this

How anyone cannot see the risks, shows they really are blinded more about posting at me than seeing sense on this

Oh take a hike, you don't think anyone actually falls for the crap about you worrying for the children. Just another way for you to Muslim bash. Ramadan already has rules to look after children, pregnant women, the old and the sick, they don't need you burbling on and pontificating.

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:04 pm

sassy wrote:
didge wrote:

No darling, I am justy showing up ben as being quite brainless on this

How anyone cannot see the risks, shows they really are blinded more about posting at me than seeing sense on this

Oh take a hike, you don't think anyone actually falls for the crap about you worrying for the children. Just another way for you to Muslim bash. Ramadan already has rules to look after children, pregnant women, the old and the sick, they don't need you burbling on and pontificating.

Really, at any point have I even mentioned Islam in any of this?
No
Showing how warped and paranoid you are

I have stated many times I stand firmly with progressive and secular Muslims who want to see change, not that has anything to do with this but shows you are full of shit sassy, as all you can do is jump on threads and slag people off

Now jog on you ugly old bat

by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:05 pm

didge wrote:
sassy wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Ooh, cranky!

He's back in thug melt down mode - perhaps he's fasting lol

No darling, I am justy showing up ben as being quite brainless on this

How anyone cannot see the risks, shows they really are blinded more about posting at me than seeing sense on this

Summers throughout the Middle East routinely crest 40 degrees. You have no idea what it's like to live in a place where 40-degree heat doesn't make the front page of every newspaper, nor do you want to.

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:07 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
didge wrote:

No darling, I am justy showing up ben as being quite brainless on this

How anyone cannot see the risks, shows they really are blinded more about posting at me than seeing sense on this

Summers throughout the Middle East routinely crest 40 degrees. You have no idea what it's like to live in a place where 40-degree heat doesn't make the front page of every newspaper, nor do you want to.

Yes and routinely people end up in hospital
Again the point is on the amount of daylight hours and what people are acclimated to, or has this escaped your attention.
A child in the middle east is going to be acclimatized to the weather there and in the Uk its vastly different

See for yourself the effects

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1479-8425.2004.00135.x/abstract

Again this is not having a go at Islam and even Muslim experts are the ones advising here, so stop being a dick for once and understand the concerns here

by eddie Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:15 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Firstly, the article is not taking about prepubescent children. So Didge's point is actually moot. Lol!

The article is referring to GCSE and A Level students.

Secondly: anybody, regardless of age should stop fasting at the first sign of ill health.

Fasting in Islam is not suppose to kill you. As Eddie has mentioned, there are many physioclogical benefits. And Islamically, spiritual benefits too.

Exactly - though I cannot comment on Islamic beliefs as I know very little.
I don't spout on and on about things I'm not sure of. Smile

by eddie Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:19 pm

My son gets hayfever and that can affect a person's concentration - we buy him medicine for it.
He's not Christian, or Muslim though and neither are the flowers that make him sneeze.....

Guess my point is moot, if I even made one? lol!

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:22 pm

eddie wrote:My son gets hayfever and that can affect a person's concentration - we buy him medicine for it.
He's not Christian, or Muslim though and neither are the flowers that make him sneeze.....

Guess my point is moot, if I even made one?

Is a medical condition he cannot help getting

My goodness, did you ever go to school Eddie?

by eddie Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:24 pm

I was taking the piss.
Most people do by the end of your waffling debates.

Cant you post a story up, hear sane views and say "Yeah, never thought of that..... Suppose the article doesn't hold much water then..."

Do you think people will laugh and point that you saw something new and learned something?

It's not everyone else, it's you Didge.

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:28 pm

eddie wrote:I was taking the piss.
Most people do by the end of your waffling debates.

Cant you post a story up, hear sane views and say "Yeah, never thought of that..... Suppose the article doesn't hold much water then..."

Do you think people will laugh and point that you saw something new and learned something?

It's not everyone else, it's you Didge.

Eddie I find nothing interesting or funny you say, to me you are just a crackpot, easily bought by things others tell you or that you read

I sadly think you are naive

Having said that, throughout this you failed to answer a simple question.

You went off like a banshee claiming I was hating off religion, which was nonsense

You fail to grasp many things, because you are too stubborn.

I have shown I can change in my views, because unlike you, I actually do listen and reason what has been said

You should try it sometime

by eddie Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:33 pm

Well this crackpot seems far happier than you.

You should try it sometime.

Teachers 'should tell pupils to stop fasting during Ramadan' 1069003512

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:35 pm

eddie wrote:Well this crackpot seems far happier than you.

You should try it sometime.

What makes you think you are happier eddie?

Yet again another subjective view, when you really do not know me from Adam

But if that makes you fel happier thinking you are happier than others, then that really is quite sad to think you do.

Hey ho, you have much to learn in life

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:16 pm

didge wrote:
sassy wrote:

Oh take a hike, you don't think anyone actually falls for the crap about you worrying for the children. Just another way for you to Muslim bash. Ramadan already has rules to look after children, pregnant women, the old and the sick, they don't need you burbling on and pontificating.

Really, at any point have I even mentioned Islam in any of this?
No
Showing how warped and paranoid you are

I have stated many times I stand firmly with progressive and secular Muslims who want to see change, not that has anything to do with this but shows you are full of shit sassy, as all you can do is jump on threads and slag people off

Now jog on you ugly old bat

Only just read this. What a crock of shit. You think people don't know your agenda by now.

And didge - yoom so ugly mirrors crack at the thought of you looking in them lol

by Victorismyhero Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 pm

personally I'd let em get on with it....Its not my problem id they wish to risk harm (or even lowered exam grades) on thier kids Teachers 'should tell pupils to stop fasting during Ramadan' 2190311264

Teachers 'should tell pupils to stop fasting during Ramadan' 2190311264

HOWEVER, give the plentiful evidence that fasting (in the immediate short term) can reduce mental awareness, hazard perception and concentration....coupled with the evidence of increased RTA's from the emirates...I think they should be banned from driving for the duration of Ramadan...I DONT see why their ridiculous religious requirements should be allowed to endanger us ALL......

by eddie Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:59 pm

EEEEK>>>>>I SCREWED UP...again...sorry edds......

eddie wrote something like this

Vic have you ever fasted over a period of time......

eddie stop twisting the facts of the matter to suit....

WHATEVER benefits accrue from fasting over time in the short term the evidence is that it causes lack of concentration, lowered hazard perception and a coresponding increase in accidents...both "generally" and specifically in regards to RTA's

I can tell you from personl experience ..if I miss breakfast i'm moody and irritable...lunch I can happily skip, dinner(or tea if you wish) again I have to have SOMETHING...

afters 14 hrs or so without food I'd be a menace on the road

Its bloody ridiculous...and totally unnecessary....and puts everyone else at risk to appease a few ......oh never mind.....

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:15 pm

I very often don't eat breakfast and lunch and just have dinner, so can go from 7 one night to 7 the next. Admittedly I have green tea etc.

by Miffs2 Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:18 pm

What about diabetic Muslims? Or those on medication to be taken with food? How do they manage?

by Guest Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:24 pm

They don't fast. If you are sick, old or pregnant or a child you simply don't have to do it. You don't have to anyway. Ramadan is to test yourself and prove to yourself that you can overcome.

by Victorismyhero Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:40 pm

what kind of mental inadequacy is it that requires this constant "testing"?

every thing is a bloody test??? WHY?

I "know" empirically that I can go without food AT ALL for up to 3 weeks and survive (admittedly I'd have to be mega careful, given that I am diabetic but only diet/tablet controlled, and would therfore have to monitor my blood sugar carefully and adjust tablet dosage accordingly, theoretically it might actually do me some good ) but I wouldnt be very nice to know...Once my blood sugar dropped below 4.5 you would have a bear with a very foul temper on your hands.
(My daughter feeds me chocolate when I get grumpy with her... Laughing

)

but, given the fact that I dont HAVE to do any such thing....why the hell would I??

besides it isnt fasting (for a normal healthy person) merely to not eat during daylight and then stuff your face the moment the sun sets...even if the daylight hours are 16 .....

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