One lefty thread after another

[Clarkson]

First topic message reminder :

The cut and paste Queen and the "I don't support Labour" disingenuous Jock who clearly works for them for nothing reprint Guardian news pieces and Labour propaganda adnauseum.

Eeee! its just like Speakfree.


Havent seen any rebuttals on RW posts just thread after thread of Labour news.


You goons couldn't debate to save your lives.

Adios I'll leave you to kill off another forum.

[Guest]

Yeah and people failing to obey the rules of their own system proves what exactly?

You WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The rules for cancer suffers are supposed to ensure fast track non assessment approval. The fact that the lower levels cannot seem to grasp this does not mean that the system is wrong for cancer sufferers.

[Guest]

My friend had cancer in her lungs, liver, kidneys, bones and brain.   You have to come for an assessment they said.   Her doctor went and told them what he thought of them.

If you get abusive they throw you out, then they just send another appointment.

I will be overseeing things in a calm and considered manner.

I will not lose my temper.

I will mention, in passing, that i have heard horror stories about terminally ill people being made fit for work.

I will point out that Doug is in the support group and nothing has changed, will point out that his consultant has written to them, to confirm these facts.

He didn't get abusive, he's a specialist who had had quite enough with the way they were treating his patients and he wiped the floor with them, then sent a very apologetic note to her.

[Guest]

The cut and paste Queen and the "I don't support Labour" disingenuous Jock who clearly works for them for nothing reprint Guardian news pieces and Labour propaganda adnauseum.

Eeee! its just like Speakfree.


Havent seen any rebuttals on RW posts just thread after thread of Labour news.


You goons couldn't debate to save your lives.

Adios I'll leave you to kill off another forum.

and drinky does another runner...cant stand the heat...dont come into the kitchen.

[Guest]

...Whilst glaring a bit.

[Guest]

You WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The rules for cancer suffers are supposed to ensure fast track non assessment approval. The fact that the lower levels cannot seem to grasp this does not mean that the system is wrong for cancer sufferers.

Do you think she is the only one? Why do you think the specialist went? For the fun of it? Loads and loads of cases where this happens, and loads of times it has been proved that it is what they are told to do.

[Guest]

You WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The rules for cancer suffers are supposed to ensure fast track non assessment approval. The fact that the lower levels cannot seem to grasp this does not mean that the system is wrong for cancer sufferers.

The fact the lower levels cant grasp thiese facts is due to the fact that that is what they are pressured to do from above...

OR.....

It is due to the fact that the upper levels are incompetant and unfit for purpose.....ALL the way to the top;....

[Guest]

If you get abusive they throw you out, then they just send another appointment.

I will be overseeing things in a calm and considered manner.

I will not lose my temper.

I will mention, in passing, that i have heard horror stories about terminally ill people being made fit for work.

I will point out that Doug is in the support group and nothing has changed, will point out that his consultant has written to them, to confirm these facts.

He didn't get abusive, he's a specialist who had had quite enough with the way they were treating his patients and he wiped the floor with them, then sent a very apologetic note to her.

Well good on him!   

[Guest]

How do you know I am not affected by these things?  

You have said how many bedrooms you have and who is in them.   And you have said you have someone who is working with you to help you, so you are obviously not being told you benefit is going to stop.   And I absolutely object to your previous post.

So having read what I have put you know exactly how I am coping with being affected by the change of rules for bedrooms. Also your benefit does not get stopped when you are called for reassessment - it only stops if the reassessment finds you fit for work.

[Guest]

The rules for cancer suffers are supposed to ensure fast track non assessment approval. The fact that the lower levels cannot seem to grasp this does not mean that the system is wrong for cancer sufferers.

The fact the lower levels cant grasp thiese facts is due to the fact that that is what they are pressured to do from above...

OR.....

It is due to the fact that the upper levels are incompetant and unfit for purpose.....ALL the way to the top;....

Neither, it is because they have a target of what percentage they have to turn down regardless of the facts.

[Guest]

which I think is covered by the second alternative as in not fit for purpose.....

[Guest]

The fact the lower levels cant grasp thiese facts is due to the fact that that is what they are pressured to do from above...

OR.....

It is due to the fact that the upper levels are incompetant and unfit for purpose.....ALL the way to the top;....

Neither, it is because they have a target of what percentage they have to turn down regardless of the facts.

Well none of that is written in the guidelines they are supposed to be following so here is a novel idea - stop having screaming fits about the unfair system and start having screaming fits about why the system that is written to be fair is not being used. You might get further attacking what is actually happening instead of attacking something that isnt being done because it isnt being done.

[Guest]

Atos campaigners win huge victory
July 27th, 2013

Ever since the days of Jo Moore who infamously emailed on the day of 9/11 that “Today is a good day to bury bad news”, governments thereafter have tended to follow her advice. Hence on the day when Prince George’s arrival was announced to the world, the government cunningly buried the bad news (for them) that the work capability assessments were going badly wrong and would have to be re-thought. Of course the government didn’t admit to making any mistakes themselves – it was all the fault of Atos! What a surprise! Atos staff, we’re told, had turned in some ‘unacceptably poor’ work standards and would have to be re-trained – ignoring the fact that it has taken them over 2 years to notice this. The truth of course is rather different. Whilst there is certainly plenty of evidence of callous, unthoughtful, insensitive practices by staff working for the French IT form Atos, the real reason that DWP has been forced into an embarrassing retreat, despite all ministerial assurances to the contrary, is that they have finally been compelled to recognise that the guidelines, regulations and prescriptors which they have handed down to their Atos agents are deeply flawed.

This is a huge victory for all those who have campaigned long and hard to get the government to acknowledge this. With a target of re-assessing 1.5 million incapacity claimants – some with multiple and complex disabilities – at a rate of 11,000 a week, it was inevitable there would be thousands of errors, misunderstandings, misjudgements – and consequential human tragedies. With such rapid-fire WCAs needed to meet these inflated targets (sorry, guidelines), there were bound to be perfunctory interviews, failure to take advice from the claimant’s GP, and preconceived decisions – hence the very high 40% success rate on appeal. But whilst some Atos staff certainly have a lot to answer for, the main responsibility for this human disaster lies squarely with the DWP rules which they were forced to work under.

The question now is how far this framework is going to change. I am glad to report that the Minister responsible, Mark Hoban, has finally, albeit after 6 months procrastination, agreed to receive a delegation on 10 September to discuss how the whole Atos system can be improved so that interviews are carried out sensitively, with enough time and prior consultation to obtain GPs’ advice, and with serious attempts to assess properly and objectively and without the distorting intrusiveness of targets whether people are genuinely capable of work or not, as well as the realistic likelihood of being able to get a job in particular areas when the unemployment total is 2.5 million. This delegation is a breakthrough, and I pay a deep tribute to all those thousands of campaigners who have struggled against all the odds for so long to have this injustice righted.

http://www.michaelmeacher.info/weblog/2013/07/atos-campaigners-win-huge-victory/

[Guest]

yeah...but its still going on aint it  

[Guest]

yeah...but its still going on aint it  

It certainly is, plans to make it any better have never materialised and the Government show no signs of any plans to change it.

[Guest]

The cut and paste Queen and the "I don't support Labour" disingenuous Jock who clearly works for them for nothing reprint Guardian news pieces and Labour propaganda adnauseum.

Eeee! its just like Speakfree.


Havent seen any rebuttals on RW posts just thread after thread of Labour news.


You goons couldn't debate to save your lives.

Adios I'll leave you to kill off another forum.

I think it's alright to be honest Clarkson.

[Guest]

and I'm still waiting for the R/W to counter my point on the utter insignificance of the cost of benefits (minus pensions) in comparison to govt spending as a whole  

Typical R/W trying to close down debate by complaining about the opposing view  

Please point me towards this, git.

[Guest]

i think he just left the building, with a cheery adios.....

Methinks you also missed the irony of his post ://?roflmao?/: 

[Guest]

The cut and paste Queen and the "I don't support Labour" disingenuous Jock who clearly works for them for nothing reprint Guardian news pieces and Labour propaganda adnauseum.

Eeee! its just like Speakfree.


Havent seen any rebuttals on RW posts just thread after thread of Labour news.


You goons couldn't debate to save your lives.

Adios I'll leave you to kill off another forum.

I think it's alright to be honest Clarkson.

Well you swear by the Daily Heil articles!....You posted lots of those on ADO (before it opened again)....You tried to drum up some interest but no one was buying! LMFAO!

[veya_victaous]

@sphinx
Build taller buildings

Japan 377,944 km² and 127,270,000 people
UK 243,610 km² and 63,705,000 people

See you should be able cope with at least 90million (50% more than now) if you were as efficient as the Japanese. Plus they still have more clean 'countryside' than you even though they have double your population and only 30% more land.
:::grouch:: :::grouch:: :::grouch:: :::grouch:: :::grouch::
English inefficiency indeed.


Plus Most Cities are like that, Most poeple cannot afford to just go off to visit the rural areas, the vast amount of rural areas that exist go towards the world bread basket. Just like Aussies need to accept we cant compete in Manufactoring and need to look a the industries we can succeed in, England has to do the same (all of Europe) the old world traditions are too inefficent we have been showing you that for decades now but you refused to listen, well your hens have come home to roost because the Asians were paying attention so all the technical and industrial gains you had over the rest of the world last century have been frittered away while you rested on your laurels, the 3rd world has caught up. Literally My Brother got back from Europe last night and he couldn't beleive how backwards it seemed, China He commented(he has travelled there too) is vastly more Modern. He commented that all the people of Europe he meet (he was mainly in the UK, but did Spain, France and Italy) were lazy and had no work ethics (you dont even work 7 days in retail? and stuff closes heaps early, even in suburbia here most shops are open to 6pm and groceries to 11pm)..... and if the USA(he has also travelled the USA) and Australia work hard compared to you guys that is a big problem because neither of us work that hard compare to the Asian nations.

I think it is time Europe got a little of its own medicine, how many cultures had to do away with their traditions to compete with Europe in the past 300 years, almost all of South East Asia. (with out even looking at the natives of the new world nations)


So the report from your nations was it is fucked like a lot of you are saying but he didn't mention the immigrints at all (you have less than us) he put it all down to lack of work ethics, what sort of shop owner is closed on the weekend? thats when working people have time to shop, better off closing on a monday than a sunday (some smaller shops will do that here) why are grocery stores closed at 5pm thats when most people finish work how can they buy things off you if your closed. And why are you using buckets and trowels to fix roads? honestly? are you just doing it so tourist think it is still 'ye olde timey'? cause there are machines that make that a lot quicker and safer.

[Irn Bru]

There are too many Lefties on here.

Cull them

[Guest]

There are too many Lefties on here.

Cull them

You've been hacking into Drinky's phone again lol

[Irn Bru]

There are too many Lefties on here.

Cull them

You've been hacking into Drinky's phone again lol

Shoosh

[Guest]

There are too many Lefties on here.

Cull them

You've been hacking into Drinky's phone again lol

He's only allowed a few hours on the net every few weeks!   

When his wife isn't looking!

[Guest]

You've been hacking into Drinky's phone again lol

He's only allowed a few hours on the net every few weeks!   

When his wife isn't looking!

Why?

[Guest]

He's only allowed a few hours on the net every few weeks!   

When his wife isn't looking!

Why?

He hits and runs these days...Sporadic postings from time to time!

He used to be posting for all of the time!....Perhaps he hasn't been cleaning the house as much as he should have been, perhaps he's playing more golf..Who can tell!

[Guest]

He doesn't come across as being your usual house husband...But if he has become a 100% house husband..Then fair dues to the man!

[Beekeeper]

The cut and paste Queen and the "I don't support Labour" disingenuous Jock who clearly works for them for nothing reprint Guardian news pieces and Labour propaganda adnauseum.

.....................................

  

DO YOU ever do anything productive instead of moan and whine Clark's son ?!?

YOU could have just as easily posted some Righteous columns of your own just as easily as whinging about it !

[Guest]

The cut and paste Queen and the "I don't support Labour" disingenuous Jock who clearly works for them for nothing reprint Guardian news pieces and Labour propaganda adnauseum.

.....................................

  

DO YOU ever do anything productive instead of moan and whine Clark's son ?!?

YOU could have just as easily posted some Righteous columns of your own just as easily as whinging about it !

You could always put that idiot to rights!

[Guest]

Only when, imo, that you have lived in the rich world and the poor world..Then you can only really understand.

[Guest]

My road went more down the poor road...The poor are more real!

[Guest]

I think it's because my Mum was a single mother, and we were very poor, then my grandfather died, and my grandmother was very lonely, so my mum and my grandmother sold their flat/houses!

My grandmother was able to provide child care, whilst my mother was able to secure better working positions in the financial world....

I was always there for my gran, from very young age, we were really close...I used to go and stay with her a lot after my grandfather died...We had a very close bond!

[Guest]

...No one in my family could be bothered with her at all.

She suggested to my mother, to pull the resource's because, because she wanted to be nearer me!

FACT!

[Guest]

...When she died..My family couldn't even be bothered to arrange the funeral for her.

I did that, with no kind of support at all....and i was still quite young....

[Guest]

....That saying...When my mother died...My siblings couldn't deal with that one either, that was all down to me as well...I'm not complaining about that, but.....

All the finances were sorted by them.

[Guest]

...They were all mad wreaks...We were all walking around in a fucking daydream of despair and insecurity..I remember co signing the deeds to my mums property, and my Mums partner went to try to sign it....I pushed his hand away!

[Guest]

....The will stipulated, that he was allowed to live there for five years, then the property would be sold after that,.

[Guest]

I mean....We used to stay over there quite frequently, and he used to always live on the ground floor of the property.

He never bothered with my Mum at all!

He sold his house in fucking Hinkley (west Mids)...Then gave all of his money to his daughter!

He expected my Mum to support him!...His previous wife died of fucking cancer.

[Guest]

I was always told that i was wrong about him...But now my siblings are going over there to mount eviction proceedings, whilst putting the 'mansion' on the market!

[Guest]

FFS!

I was barred from the 'mansion' many years ago!

..Because i was a bit too gobby, and he knew that i hated him, and once Mum was gone, he couldn't contain me at all!

LOL

[Guest]

Five years up!

When he has been evicted...I want a very long couple of weeks there, before it's sold.

[Guest]

I am still waiting for the left to explain why so many people are irresponsible with their money and how they expect everyone else to pay for their stupidity?

The left play off guilt constantly and fail to see the bigger picture, they fail to see how many people, have had to endure hardship because of the recession left by a left wing Government incapable of managing its finances, which is odd as the same people are trying to excuse this as well as others not being able to manage their finances because they refuse to accept that people place their material wealth over what is more important.

That is the reality of the left, blame and guilt!

[veya_victaous]

@phil or any Uk poster
is it true your checkout people don't put stuff in the bag when you pay?
The French don't which I think is retarded
It might sound irrelevant but it might change my opinion, you see we are quite left wing here but most people work hard and recognise that we put our taxes into a communal basket and only as much can come out as goes in. There are enough Australians (probably because 25% are born overseas) that are grateful enough to be here that we are fine with paying towards it knowing that we are generating prosperity but by its nature it is not very even in it distribution. Plus maybe the Aboriginals, we all sort of accept we should pay to bring them up to speed since we have taken their land so that we know part of the social security we pay is sort of 'rent' to the traditional owners. I don't know but I am wondering how different the UK attitude is.


I normally support the French but Jesus.. "I cant put it in a bag, we had a revolution, it's like slavery" get off your arse and do some work.  ::sexbnan: 

[Guest]

gerrout of it IRN........

OMG are you who I think you are????   x

It wasnt supposed to be a secret was it?!

[Guest]

Getting back to the original theme of the thread  

I think we need to remember we are all guests on Ben's forum. I also think we need to stop with the jumping on every post because you dont like the poster. I would like to see more differing opinions but its in danger of becoming cut and paste who can insult the most again. And we know where that can lead.

Turn up post your opinion and sod off again, no need for tag teaming, 20 smilies per post, insults and personal comments. Also,NOT every thing is right or left wing.

There should be room for all, when it becomes like a personal club or someones personal rant space it becomes stale and then the infighting starts again.

All just my opinion.

[Guest]

@phil or any Uk poster
is it true your checkout people don't put stuff in the bag when you pay?
The French don't which I think is retarded
It might sound irrelevant but it might change my opinion, you see we are quite left wing here but most people work hard and recognise that we put our taxes into a communal basket and only as much can come out as goes in. There are enough Australians (probably because 25% are born overseas) that are grateful enough to be here that we are fine with paying towards it knowing that we are generating prosperity but by its nature it is not very even in it distribution. Plus maybe the Aboriginals, we all sort of accept we should pay to bring them up to speed since we have taken their land so that we know part of the social security we pay is sort of 'rent' to the traditional owners. I don't know but I am wondering how different the UK attitude is.


I normally support the French but Jesus.. "I cant put it in a bag, we had a revolution, it's like slavery" get off your arse and do some work.  ::sexbnan: 

Don't think that's the problem Veya, it's just not something we have ever done, and to be honest the set up in supermarkets etc means that assistants don't get a chance to help. I don't think anyone would actually object to doing it.

[Guest]

@phil or any Uk poster
is it true your checkout people don't put stuff in the bag when you pay?
The French don't which I think is retarded
It might sound irrelevant but it might change my opinion, you see we are quite left wing here but most people work hard and recognise that we put our taxes into a communal basket and only as much can come out as goes in. There are enough Australians (probably because 25% are born overseas) that are grateful enough to be here that we are fine with paying towards it knowing that we are generating prosperity but by its nature it is not very even in it distribution. Plus maybe the Aboriginals, we all sort of accept we should pay to bring them up to speed since we have taken their land so that we know part of the social security we pay is sort of 'rent' to the traditional owners. I don't know but I am wondering how different the UK attitude is.


I normally support the French but Jesus.. "I cant put it in a bag, we had a revolution, it's like slavery" get off your arse and do some work.  ::sexbnan: 

Good morning Veya

I think the problem boils down to stereotypes to be honest as in reality people hold both left and right wing views in the main, they just lean to one side more than the other. I mean for example you will have people hold that those with RW views are prejudice and hold discriminating views, which is not the case at times with people, but this will be played upon by those who hold majority LW views.

At the end of the day the reality is with migration and demographic changes is put down to fear and what many people have called cultural pessimism, something that has been around from generation to generation and in reality boils down to selfish belief to ourselves and not the greater need of humanity. The reality is humans are selfish to their own needs and need clearly to evolve to a higher level where they place the needs of our planet before their own needs. I really do not mind LW people in the main though I find of those who hold views where they are dogmatic and unable to see they might be wrong as poor to say the least hence the countless banter that occurs.

Your perception of the Aboriginals of bringing up to speed, why? Your perception plus the fact they had simple lives that has been corrupted and ruined by modern technology has in anyway a view that your way of life is better, is it? The reality is they only took what was needed and no more than was needed, yes they may have even over hunted at times in the past but have learnt from this. So maybe you need to be brought up to speed with their way of life and in fact it is you yourself that is lacking in enlightenment as they are.

[Clarkson]

     

       

Says the worst debator it's ever been my misfortune to come across.   For fucks sake, get help with that obsession.

I actually type original stuff you copy and paste.

Try again.

Not seen any of you actually rebut any of the stuff I wrote on the Labour achievements but hey you are too dim to do so.

I speaks volumes sassy that you guys can only feel comfortable on forums where everyone is of your political persuasion. With you IQ I would do the same. Fortunately I haven't got the IQ of the average mollusc so prevalent on here.

The question is do the left want to debate or play with their crayons all red crayons at that.

[Guest]

You have an IQ of over 150 Drinky? I very much doubt it. In which case keep your opinions of how intelligent you are firmly buttoned. I haven't seen one decent intelligent post from you in a long time. I use links of reports etc of evidence to back up what I say, that's how you debate, say something and back it up with evidence, not just rant on.

[Original Quill]

The cut and paste Queen and the "I don't support Labour" disingenuous Jock who clearly works for them for nothing reprint Guardian news pieces and Labour propaganda adnauseum.

Eeee! its just like Speakfree.


Havent seen any rebuttals on RW posts just thread after thread of Labour news.


You goons couldn't debate to save your lives.

Adios I'll leave you to kill off another forum.

Now, granpa drinky...you're supposed to be taking a nap. It's is confusing when the world goes by so fast.

Go back to bed and I'll bring you some warm milk. You can dream about the horse and buggy, and women weren't uppity and couldn't vote.

[veya_victaous]

Your perception of the Aboriginals of bringing up to speed, why? Your perception plus the fact they had simple lives that has been corrupted and ruined by modern technology has in anyway a view that your way of life is better, is it? The reality is they only took what was needed and no more than was needed, yes they may have even over hunted at times in the past but have learnt from this. So maybe you need to be brought up to speed with their way of life and in fact it is you yourself that is lacking in enlightenment as they are.

No I Actually think the ones that live in areas where we haven't disrupted them would be better off left alone, but the UN keeps telling us we have too bring medicine and housing to them, but any structure is against their culture so... we are sort of at a loss what to do.  ::dunno::  But there are far more than just the desert aboriginals, there are plenty that can no longer live their traditional life style because we have built cities or farms or mines on their land. It is these ones that we need to bring up to speed  if they are going to survive in the modern world which has been thrust upon them. (no they cant just move with the others they are actually different people, but they all get called aboriginal) It really isn't about better but there isn't the animals and plants around for them to live a hunter gather life style in the city, they need to eat so they will need money. we give it too them, as well as education or anything that will give them employment opportunities. most people knowledgeable about the situation agree it will take generations and that is just looking at the ones we have displaced.
And it is not enlightenment but practicality, I would seriously consider the aboriginal lifestyle (the weather is good enough here, the food grows all year round) if it was at all feasible in the modern over populated world.    

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